 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the book launch of Coloury Tales from Balochistan. This is a book by Nilofar Afridikazi, whom I have known for a few years now, back from Pakistan. Everybody in Islamabad knows her. Somebody, you know, there are several ways of knowing Nilofar. What brings us here together is our different relationship with her, but most importantly that she's been mapping Pakistan's food in 100 districts throughout the country. And this is actually her effort put together on Balochistan, which we're going to talk to her about. She's from Balochistan, from the famous Kazi family, Kazis of Pashin. And for many of us who live in Islamabad, she's the daughter of a very renowned Pakistani diplomat, Ashraf Jahangir Kazi. Very senior, very knowledgeable, you know, and one is proud of him and his achievements. But this is a time for us to be proud of his daughter's achievements too. The last time we were together in Islamabad, I'm reminded of, you know, when I was reading going through this book, I was reminded of in F11 sector in Islamabad, there's somebody opened a shop, it was Sindhi restaurant, Sindh food from Sindh. And she harassed, Nilofar harassed the poor man, the restaurant owner. And her demand was, why are you serving us, you know, ordinary food? Why aren't you serving us food from Sindh? So, and that is what she has set out to do in this book, bring out the food, what people eat in Pakistan. I mean, the Dhabba food, the food that, the Mughlai food that we, you know, always talk about, you know, at one level, there is very little to distinguish, you know, the Indian food from the Pakistani food. And what she's been trying to say is that, yes, there are commonalities, but there is much more else to explore in Pakistani food. And so there is, this is a first effort. So, I'll shut up and welcome her to the size event, South Asia Institute at SOAS, which have been very kind in allowing us to host this event. So I'll start, Nilofar, asking you in five minutes to explain to the audience, why was it important for you to write about food from Balochistan? Thank you, Ayesha, Dr. Ayesha Sethika, the friend. And thank you so much, SOAS for hosting my first physical book launch of culinary details from Balochistan. I've been food mapping Pakistan because no one has. That's pretty much the reason why I started this endeavor. I mean, as a diplomats daughter, I've been privileged and lived in many countries and as a result, I have tried and enjoy and love many cuisines from all over the world. And when I had a chance to move back to Pakistan in 2005, I was looking forward to learning, experiencing the full spectrum of what is Pakistani food. And then over time through work and, you know, sort of observations, it sort of dawned on me that a lot of our culinary culture was hidden, invisible, and especially from the smaller provinces, smaller in terms of population, not in terms of land. So this bothered me. And then when I had the opportunity, God was very kind. I decided that let me chuck my job and do what I really am curious about. So given my background in research, public policy, I sort of had the tools. So I just shifted it into preserving researching and documenting our invisible culinary heritage. I start with Balochistan, because it is the largest province of the country, the most invisible, and also happens to be my paternal province. So that's the short answer. There's there's a recipe from the Murray family, you have you've recorded your interaction with different big families, right. What about food of the poor. I mean, I didn't get the sense from the book that we, you know, I could understand what the ordinary folk, the underprivileged in Balochistan were eating. It's interesting you say that because the entire book actually focuses on food for of the ordinary. They're actually only one recipe from the Khan of collards kitchen, and that also he was very kind enough to use his chefs to demonstrate a very common and a very ancient recipe which is for the lack of better word commonly loved in play beyond. So actually, even the Murray recipe, Uncle KB Murray's favorite food, what was interesting is that it is the common man's food, which was popular and his favorite. So actually, I would say, Uncle KB is a chapter dedicated to him. So actually, I would, I'm surprised you said that the book had any elite recipes because actually I would say there isn't a single elite recipe. It's completely an utterly recipes of the common person from across Balochistan, not South and Costa. See, but okay, let me let me kind of probe you a bit more. Balochistan is also a province which is underdeveloped has experienced a lot of, you know, a lot of violence, pressure from the state, definitely deprived of its resources. And in fact, you talk about it. You know, why, for example, this mention of sweet. I mean, we in the rest of Pakistan have been so used to natural gas, lighting up our kitchens and warming is up. We rarely talk about how sweet from where it's produced as was the last one to get it. My question to you is that with that kind of underdevelopment, I am sure there are many things that would be shortages that be droughts, which would affect people's eating habits. Did you talk to them about it? Yes, the, the, in fact, the food print of Balochistan reflects the socio economic conditions that's that theme is explored throughout the book. The reason why fundamentals of Balochistan economy food is cured meat, dehydrated milk and bread. And these three make the foundations of the culinary culture of Balochistan because of no electricity, no gas, extreme weather conditions and the nomadic and the type of lifestyle of the people in north, central, south and coastal, the fisherman folk. So, absolutely, the kind of food, the kind of ingredients, and as a result of the ingredients, the kind of recipes that I capture completely in utterly reflects the socio economic and the agriculture or the lack of agricultural patterns of the province absolutely it's fundamental. No, but, you know, when it comes to meat, I mean, meat is via meat lovers and meat eaters. So you would find meat in, in Khebar Pakhtunkhwa Punjab, in fact, does more vegetables in some ways. So what's, can you explain to an audience here, what makes Baloch cuisine different from rest of the country. First, it's not Baloch cuisine because that's an ethnic, so Balochistan, yeah, we have many ethnic groups in Balochistan. And so the, as I said, the fundamental three ingredients which feed into the base of food from the province is Dode, Kroot and Landi, so cured meat, dehydrated milk and bread, and they are vast varieties of these three. And there are many recipes of that in the book. Of course, there are many other recipes, dried fish, for example, dried goat, and many, many others. I mean, you know, there's, there's a book full of recipes. So, but these are the three fundamentals reflecting the social economic and the agricultural patterns and the animal husbandry, nomadic patterns of the province. So yes, actually, when you talk about vegetarianism, vast majority of Pakistanis period, not only Balochistan are vegetarian, because meat is expensive. So, we love meat, and we have it in many forms, but the vast majority enjoy it on special occasions. And to preserve it, they also dehydrated or cure it as Landi or Tabaik in the coastal areas. Right. So, but to explain, and that is very different from, from elsewhere, from, from whatever. The cuisine, the Balochistan cuisine is more akin to Central Asian. So we have less spice. We usually use a salt primarily, you know, and so it's, it's very basic bread, very few seasonings, and lots of salads actually, you know, there's a lot of raw salads. And where some of those salads are considered elite, like kale and jump, which is called jumbo, we have many greens which are considered European and Western which are like very common, you know, in Balochistan and quetta. So, similarly with hubs, many of the spices, what are they called basil and rosemary, you know, which are dill chives, Gandana, you know, which we use in our dumplings, yoghurt. So, you know, it has a lighter, you know, fresher Central Asian very low on spice palette. So yes, it's different to the plains where we sort of inundate our food with oil and spices and they're heavy, you know, and I won't say like they take more time to cook because the reasons why it takes a quite a considerable amount of time to cook or rehydrate and in general, agrarian societies pre modern societies, cooking takes a long time and preparing food takes a long time. So that takes and that's another debate and you know we go into a different line of conversation on that which I do explore in the book as well. So that is similar across for our four provinces. But yes, Balochistan food is very different to what is familiar as Pakistani food which is Mughalai and Kashmiri, which is associated with Punjab or you know, maybe very the urban centers of Pakistan. So yes, it's Central Asian, ancient Central Asian food. So you talk about the team. I mean, you were you on your own, because I get a sense that despite being from Balochistan, you are an insider outsider I mean you don't really speak speak the languages. Okay, so what was your team number one and how did people react to talking to you were they did they open up. What about your interaction with women. Tell us more about let's step a bit step outside the book and talk about your journey. Mapping, you know, the fallery tales of Balochistan. How did how did it go I mean how did you find the people. It's a really long question but it's easier as a woman to enter the private spaces. I mean this is a country and country and provincially as well, which is conservative, it's tribal feudal. And so entering a private spaces, it's much easier for women to negotiate that and that's where food is cooked and I was interested in invisible food so I wasn't interested in food which were in restaurants or in Dhabas a small, you know, sort of public eateries so accessing those areas, I was privileged because I was female. But other than that, you're absolutely right. I traveled alone. And occasionally I had my editor, who was the editor of Pakistan on a plate the video series that I have produced which is online at the first corner. He would be on the other side of the camera when we were filming, but when it came to talking to the communities. I had in many instances interlocutors so I use for example Balochistan rule support program. Family friends, three degrees of separation, the Khan of Kalat is a family friend of four generations. I don't know him from Adam, but because I'm a Kazi, and so I could pick up the phone and he would extend his hospitality and you know drove down from Karachi and hosted me in Killa Saifullah, the Jogazeis. Again, the last time I met them was when I was maybe a teenager, but again, you know, like the fathers and grandfathers, they're all family friends so when I requested that I'm curious to explore Killa Saifullah, I had a guide, because the families go back to that generation so in traditional societies, the linkages you know that you have through family matter, and you do have access, you know. So, and I was looking and for food and heritage, which haven't been documented. And to do that I had to enter private spaces and to do that, I had to use a series of networks that I was lucky in not only having but you know having the interest in finding those linkages through 234 degrees of separation or even for one degree of separation. So now in terms of their reaction. In the household, I would say 99.9% maybe 100% are women who cook. So, I'm just giving that 0.1% just in case you know so in the private domain. The household is preserved and memory of how it was brought into the family under what circumstances is it associated with particular cultures or rituals or festivals. It's all in the purview of women. So, yes, you know like the, I'm honoring a lot of women, you know named and unnamed. Many of them and in the book, didn't want to be photographed. So, that's why you know like they're not as many photographs of women, even my own family members, you know, so no pictures of women where it wasn't allowed so I have to add I did and I followed protocol. I am actually honored to very distinguished male chefs associated with food and recipes in Balochistan, who I believe have not been honored in the national landscape and narrative of our culinary heritage. So, I have two chapters on them as well and I explained to you why they are important and why I'm acknowledging them as important chefs. So, yes, men of course have played a significant role in, you know, like enhancing and honoring food and culinary culture in Balochistan. Now, anecdotally, when I went out to food map and talk to families and individuals who were reservoirs of traditional food, I would say initially they actually thought I was looking for something else. This was like a conversation, you know, like sort of icebreaker and yes, yes, yes, they've been told that she's interested in food and traditional recipes but she actually must be wanting something else because seriously, like food, like, it's not really important like how can somebody from outside was educated who isn't from the province. I mean, other than a family come all this way spend so much time with us, and she's interested in food, like our recipes. So this was something I saw everywhere that they was very little recognition and honoring and respect of their own tradition, which kind of broke my heart and kind of reaffirmed the need to document these recipes because they value for this. So when through modernity through, you know, like, whether it's seed change to agricultural patterns or climate change or short cutting or changing of taste buds, they're gone. You know, in fact, one of the chefs in Guadal, you know, who shared seven recipes with me, he died while I was writing the book. So I have seven of his recipes. And if I hadn't written them down, gone. So fish halwa recipe is preserved because I wrote it down. How did it taste? Fish halwa? Never, never, never imagined. Hi, Tarek, another cousin who I'm not seeing in. The question is, yeah, could you also explain, I mean, I was very used by this green halwa and never thought of, never thought of halwa as being green. They've always been either yellow or green halwa. How does it, does it taste different? Well, you know, the Quadri Halwa is green. And I actually asked the question, why green? And they, you know, like the chefs, macaroni chefs looked at me and said, why not? You know, like so, you know, there's no story of why it's green, but it's the base is Nishasta, which is sprouted wheat. So it's gluten free. And natural sugars. Again, why? Because this is an area which doesn't grow sugar. So now, of course, they can get sugar, but they invented a recipe where they took wheat and it sprouted, you know, over a few days. And that releases natural sugar than the ground that wheat, which has, you know, sort of natural sweeteners and then that they converted into a halwa. And then they colored it. So, and the market for this Quadri Halwa is in the Gulf, right across in Oman, primarily, and Bahrain, so where, you know, the economic relationship is very strong. I would say perhaps stronger than Quetta and the rest of the country, as I explain in the chapters, you know, you also partly tell the story of Oman and Gwadar. The whole story of how Pakistan bought Gwadar back from Oman. One version. One version. So, A, what is the popular version? What ordinary people believe in? That's one. And what are the, I mean, your father being from the Foreign Service and a very senior person at that. I'm sure you must have found the story from him as well. What did he, or did you share the story that you heard in when you got back? You must have discussed it. I don't know. I don't think I discussed this with Baba, but the book is written in a very specific way. My opinion doesn't quite matter when it comes to what I hear from various quarters. And on the issue of Gwadar, which is for those of you who don't know, it's the coastal belt of Balochistan, which is where the CPEC is very large, you know, like investment from China and, you know, like a very important deep sea port. So it's the coastal belt of Balochistan. It's also the largest coastal part of Pakistan 970 kilometers long links Karachi to basically the Iranian border with the entire coast. So we have been told, and it's not told, it actually did happen in the 1950s. To be exact, I'm not sure it was I think 1958. I think the state of Pakistan bought Gwadar from the state of Oman. This is a fact. Now, the Khan of Kalat disputes that in that, why did you buy something which we already owned? Because it was very, which is also a fact that it was part of the Khan of Kalat state, part of the Khanate. So you have these two contradictory histories of a very interesting, large part of Pakistan. And depending on who is telling the story, they have different versions. And then of course the Gwadarys have a third version, because here you have these two competing states, you know, like the modern state of Pakistan and the pre-modern state where you had kings, the Khan of Kalat. But you also have a local story as well, who have a very different relationship with both the state and the pre-state Khan of Kalat, who himself actually was an invader to the area. So you have three stories of Gwadar. And so I'm not interested in privileging and which is right and which is wrong. The book shares all three. And I leave it to the reader to decide or just learn, because sometimes it's not about, you know, like which one is right. It's about just giving voice to difference of opinions. And I think especially when it comes to Balochistan, that is the most important thing, that listen to local voices. Later part of Balochistan is dominated by the Sildarys, the tribal system, you know, and you do mention that. But you also have the coastal bed, which is not tribal, which is not dominated by the Sildarys. So I'd be curious. I mean, do you see differences in the eating patterns, in the food patterns, the two regions? And let me ask you an even cruder question. Who is better fed in your mind? I mean, who eat better, you know, compared to the other? I mean, I would assume that, I mean, one is about what is available. But our politics does have an impact on who you are, how you are. So how do you compare the two regions? Subsistence living is the norm in Balochistan. Quetta, of course, being the capital is, you know, sort of the hub and center and, you know, all those who have money either live there or have a home there if they come from, you know, different parts of the province, the 26, you know, districts within Balochistan. I can't privilege one or the other. I mean, you know, unfortunately, if you look at numbers by UNICEF or, you know, you know, agencies which are looking at nutrition and, you know, malnutrition. And Balochistan is, after Sint, we have very high malnutrition numbers, you know. So I was focusing on recording and preserving food. So my observed surroundings, I was, you know, you had nomads, you had herdsmen, you had people living in mud huts. They didn't have electricity, gas cylinders where they could afford it. They were used, you know, sort of portable gas cylinders so they could cook in the open spaces because in the coastal areas the weather gets very hot. In fact, it's hot most of the time. So even in December, it's well-trained, you know, so they would prefer to cook in sort of open air environment, you know. Drought is very common. So when I went, I went to Guadar a couple of times. The one time I went, they had got rain after seven years. So rain-fed agriculture. That means what do you do when you don't have water? They already have a problem with water. They don't have rain. So everything is preserved or it comes from Karachi or Iran, very close ties with Iran. So the shops are, the small markets are full of Iranian products. And or kitchen, garden, you know, sort of subsistence, growing of vegetables, etc. Or as I said, bread, dried, growth and meat. You do talk about a difference between the Iranian cook and the Balochistani cook. That's right. I spent a bit of time describing the various varieties of growth because it's a fundamental ingredient in many of the recipes. And you have Iranian growth, you have Turkish growth, you have Quetta-based growth, Afghan growth. And I sort of explained to you what I observed. And I can also tell you because I brought some with me, she nearly fainted. And, you know, what other people sort of observe, they privilege the Iranian growth because it's smoother and, you know, it's softer and it's already been rehydrated and properly canned and, you know, so again, reflecting, you know, sort of better socio-economic conditions. When you were traveling around, did you come across more signs of CPEC and how has CPEC affected the region? What do people say? You know, you say, culinary tales from Balochistan, but I'm sure you're also telling other tales there. Some which are in the book, some which are not, you know, as part of, you know, what you may have stored in your head. So, how was, you know, what kind of impression did you get about CPEC and what did people tell you? Now we're totally moving away from the book, but I mean, those of you who follow me on Twitter, I mean, I've been talking about the non-existent of CPEC in Guadar and in Balochistan from the moment people have been talking about CPEC in Balochistan. There is no CPEC in Balochistan. We have a deep seaport, which is not used. No one has been employed. I mean, there is no industry. There's no cottage industry. There's no water. There's no CPEC in Balochistan. So, CPEC may and does exist, but it has no relationship with Balochistan. And this is what the locals will tell you and this is my observed view as well. No, but this has affected the lives of fishermen. I mean, very recently there was, there were protests in Guadar, right? So, I mean, I thought you meant in terms of impact positively. Well, impact is both. Yes, of course. The fisherfolk have been deeply affected with the large trawlers from China, you know, and which go directly from the sea straight to China or wherever. And within Guadar city, you have half of Guadar city cordoned off for the Chinese harbor area, which basically displaced the fisherfolk on the east bank. And this is also discussed a little bit in the book. So yes, so they have disrupted traditional patterns of fisherfolk life and not disruption in terms of bringing modernization and upgrade, etc. So we have this a little bit of this conversation. So we have seen no benefit of CPEC in Guadar. You know, I was equally amused by what you'd written. No cafes and no restaurants through the entire coastal belt from Guadar to Karachi. So, where is the footprint of the state. And I'm really stepping away from the book. Yeah. It's, it's an interesting conversation also round your book. You know, what I want to get me in trouble. I mean, here I want the book, but people focusing on heritage and culture and, but you see, the problem is with Balochistan. The process of writing this book was political, whether I liked it or not, because no one writes on Balochistan. I choose to pick a lens, which is unusual, which is food. And what does food and the recipes tell you about a people who are invisible, a part and corner of Pakistan, which is undiscussed, you know, it does not factor in our imagination. So I want Pakistanis. My audience is Pakistan and Pakistanis, even though we are so as but my audience is Pakistan and Pakistanis. I want you to be curious about the largest province in our country, our country. So that's the lens I choose food. But we all know what are the lenses that Balochistan is looked at. And that is very heavy. It is very unpleasant. It is very sad. And so I want to broaden that lensing. I want to broaden the emotion. I want Pakistanis to connect with the people at an individual level, through what we love and celebrate, which is food. And that makes us Pakistani, all of it makes us Pakistani. So, yes, Ayesha is referring to what we all think when we think of Balochistan. And that is also true. But I am broadening and pushing the boundaries of forcing you to look at one of the most beautiful parts of Pakistan 42% no less of Pakistan from a different lens. But Nino again, let me let me again push a bit. See, if you don't have restaurants, if you don't have cafes, if you don't have accessibility what makes a land accessible to ordinary people. I mean, you are from the Kazi family. I'm a very ordinary Pakistani and any ordinary Pakistani who travels from Balochistan if they don't have connections to access the place. So actually you'd be looking to, you know, to facilities that are there. And if you don't have facilities, how do you then make that part 42% of that land accessible to the rest of Pakistan. Yes. Yes. I mean, my job is to record and research the recipes before they die out. And what you're talking about is the state and the provincial state managers and the state state managers, the permanent and the unpermanent state managers to make a very large part of Pakistan accessible and safer for everyone inside the province and outside of the province. And why that's the case we all know that hasn't changed since 1948. It's just progressively got worse. And technically a lot of Karachiites do drive down the coastal highway and it's become become more and more popular, you know, like people go to Las Pela, they go to Gwadar their flights from Karachi. They say no flights to Gwadar from Quetta. So there is this internal contradiction, you know where the state wants Pakistan to have you know tourism and in fact I think it's doubting and you know like saying lots of tourism this and tourism this but there's very little access to ordinary folks like if I want to go to Balochistan and even when you go to Balochistan, you probably won't be able to you know like find too many hotels or motels and as I noted from Gwadar all the way to Karachi, there's not a single cafe on 970 kilometers of highway. So the most beautiful virgin beaches you will ever ever see but they are not you know like tourist friendly. They are adventure travel friendly. But they are not you know sort of let's you know like with our families and you know like young kids or whatever you know like friendly. Perhaps this neglect of the region that has also contributed tremendously to you know the dissatisfaction amongst people the desire to separate and it's so interesting I mean what you also document in your book that a region which started off with the Khan of Qalad along with the Nawab of Bahawalpur giving money to the new state of Pakistan. I mean nobody talks about the Khan of Qalad giving money to Qaid-e-Azam and the new state of Pakistan. You know it's not in our textbooks anywhere which I mentioned. Yeah, you have mentioned it. And there is this lot of pent up resentment amongst the people and it's so interesting that you document bits of your interaction with Nawab Khair Bakhshmari who struggled with who tried in many ways to negotiate with the state of Pakistan. And then probably realize that there was no negotiating with this with the state of Pakistan. So could you tell us a bit more or the audience a bit more about Nawab Khair Bakhshmari what you have about him in this in this chapter here and why did you pick him in particular and use him to you know use him you know he there's a chapter about him. Nawab Khair Bakhshmari was my uncle. He was a matter to my mother's sister. So he was my papa in Urdu. So it's the book is full of my relatives and prominent members of the family who had a role in Balochistan in many forms. Culinary also but politically, socially, culturally, legally, etc. In fact, Tarek's grandfather, Qazi Isa, you know was the youngest member of the Muslim League and very close ally of the Qaidaism who created Pakistan, you know he his grandfather ensured Balochistan would be part of Pakistan. So we are very proud of our family's contribution to ensure the state of Pakistan had Balochistan. So I take that, you know, seriously. So Uncle KB who is a member of our family had a different view. You know, and I honor that view as well. As I said, we have many parts which make us beautiful. So the issue was, and is that we want all members and all citizens of Pakistan and those in Balochistan to be honored and as equal citizens in a progressive, safe Pakistan. That was a reason that of Pakistan as a Qazi. You know, and that's how we grew up understanding the purpose of Pakistan. So, when they are different points of view for legitimate human rights violations and etc. They have different, you know, like movements. And Kherbakh Shmari represented one of those movements, and very legitimately, I mean, he, you know, is considered to be the father of the Baloch tribes Baloch, you know, of a particular ethnic group deeply respected as a citizen of Balochistan. He's included in Balochistan in the culinary tales of Balochistan, because you cannot write a pan book on Balochistan and make reference to you if you're honoring, you know, people, individuals and not include him. And he also happens to have a personal connection with me. So there was a double reason to mention him. What did I... Yeah, it was, you know, he ate simply what kind of... Oh, yeah. Uncle KB was a very, very stoic, kind, gentle, soft man. And to the outside world, man of very few words. But I've known him all my life. We had very spirited conversations. He came and stayed with me at Oxford, you know, he was, you know, was even happy to sleep on the floor and Uncle KB had to sleep on the bed. You know, so very humble, you know, and was interested in what I was reading, you know, like met my friends. We disagreed almost on everything politically. But he was very generous of heart and mind. And I think, you know, as a young, obviously seeing me as a child was very encouraging, you know, like, of let her think which, you know, and he argued with me and tried to, you know, but never lost his temper, you know, never was adamant. And that says something as an adult now when I think about it, you know, like human beings who are confident, you know, and very secure, you know, in what they believe in and their principles, don't get angry. I mean, you know, because they believe in those views, and they have the generosity to listen to difference of opinions, you know, and that's how I saw him, you know, as somebody who always strives. towards, you know, like simplicity, inclusivity, peace. That's how I see Uncle KB. You know, I'm glad you talk about it because, you know, for the ordinary Pakistanis and for the youth in the rest of Pakistan. The way Khair Bahshmari Nawab Khair Bahshmari has presented it's important to know that is about his generosity about his ability to engage with people. And perhaps, you know, it's also for us to learn that where he arrived with his politics was also after a lot of discussion and thinking and, you know, thinking about how to engage. I mean, he did engage. A couple of last things, and then we open up the floor for Q&A. You do talk about women. I mean, it's a close society, yet you do it several occasions in the book. You do talk about different women, very known women in Balochistan. Can you, you know, talk us through some of them? Were they, why were they known? Why they mentioned the book? Well, I started off with my grandmother. I call her Auntie Mummy and others would know her as Jennifer Musa Qazi. She married my grandmother, a grandfather in England when both of them was studying at Oxford, and they married in London and had my father here. And then when Qazi Isa Tarek's grandfather, my grandfather's younger brother, politics in the Muslim League started getting, you know, at a stage where the country was going to be formed in 1947. My grandfather, who was known as Agha, and my grandmother returned back to Pakistan. And so my grandfather died very young and so my grandmother, in the tradition of the family, remained in politics. And so she joined what was then known as the National Awami Party, the precursor of the E&P today. The secular liberal progressive party, underlined secular. So, and she represented the province of Balochistan in the constitutional committee, which created the 73 Constitution, which is our constitution today. So the signatory to the 73 Constitution is my grandmother. So she's, I mentioned her and you know, in the book, several places, you know, because she was known as Mummy of Balochistan and you know her home was Beijing and Balochistan was everything to her and she lived there she died there and focus was the welfare of Balochistan. I'm Shirin Bibi, which is another relative of mine from my mother's side actually, but settled in Balochistan, Shirin Afridi, I have a chapter on her. And here she sort of embodies the more traditional, as you would understand a puhtun woman, you know, and her life story through the 1935 earthquake, which destroyed Balochistan. It flattened Balochistan. In fact, it is recorded as the worst national natural disaster in the subcontinent in living memory. So that of course had a deep impact on the province. And so this chapter is through the eyes of a survivor of the 1935 earthquake, and she was an incredible cook. So I honor her and her recipes. And at the same time, I share a part of the history, which had to be talked about because how many Pakistanis actually even talk about the 1935 earthquake. I don't even know if people know there was an earthquake in 1935 that affected this part of what is today Pakistan. So, then to the rest of the book, where there is a play of all the chefs were women primarily so you know like you hear their names and you hear their background and whether they're official folks, wives, or their shopkeepers wives, the people who are interpreting their conversations with me, you know, about their lives. And then actually also, which was a funny one, the Khan of collapse. I will not reveal you have to read that chapter. Okay, so Khan of collapse has his ancestry, Shajra, all the way to prophet Noah. Let's leave it at that. So, in that when I saw that I was like, Well, where are the women. I mean, there must be some mother somewhere right. And so you know I got these silence and you know. And so they came up with, I will not tell you her name, but they have one woman in the Khan of collapse. Shajra, because she was very prominent. So I tell a little bit about her story as well. And of course, Kalimata, you know who's a goddess of in the Hindu pantheon. She was born in Kalat. It is named after Kalima. So it's a very, in fact, Balochistan is replete with very holy Hindu sites but Kalima's birthplace is in Kalat. And so a very, very revered temple is in Kalat. So I mentioned that as well in its history, etc. So women visible and invisible have been an integral part of Balochistan's history. Modern history and they continue to carry and preserve our culinary heritage, which represents our multiple diverse heritages of the region. So I give you flavors and nuggets and you know snippets of that. It's the effort to get you in trouble. While traveling and while researching, I'm sure you came across and you do kind of slightly mentioned here and there footprints of the military in Balochistan. How did that go? I can't not ask you this question. I'm okay. I invoke privilege. I mean, in the sense that yes, that front print is very heavy and is very prevalent. But I am a Kazi. So I mean, I also, you know, like, I can be quite persuasive, you know, as well. So as this is a book, which I was going to research. So come what may. And so when you are adamant, you will find ways and means. So yes, you did have challenges and you will continue to have challenges. That's part of the fun. Wonderful. So now I open up for Q&A. Any questions and certainly since the author is here, we encourage you to buy the book as well and have it signed by her. But before that, let's see if people have questions. Yes, sir. If you look at the book, the chapters are actually by location. So I'm from Pishin. So Pishin, Killa Sehfulla, Quetta, Mastung, Kalat, Las Bela, Guadar, you know, sort of like, sort of the whole area I mentioned, the Mari areas. No, DG Khan doesn't fall under Balochistan. Yes, I mean, I only went to these areas. Yeah, I didn't cover 26 districts. I covered north, central, south and the coastal. We will get into the discussion later. This is Landi. This is Landi cured lamb. And it's described how it's made in the book in the first chapter. And it hangs for about six to eight weeks in bitter, bitter winter cold. So you have to have very specific kind of conditions, not only cold like a fridge, but it has to be very dry, very, very dry. Otherwise the meat will rot. So this is a kind of curing methodology which happens in Killa Sehfulla, Pishin, in particular. So it doesn't happen in Quetta. So even in Balochistan, even in the north, it's in a very specific kind of area where the weather conditions allow. And hence, that's where Landi is considered to be very good. Do you have any vegetarian recipes here? Yes, yes, yes. Do we have photos? I'm not sure what they're. Well, this is Aubergine. And this recipe honors one of the chefs that I mentioned, who needed to, Piru Saab, who has basically for three generations, you know, fed anyone and everyone who was important in Balochistan, because he managed the Pishin rest house. And so all the notables and, you know, from outside of the province and inside the province would come and Piru Saab, who was the big chef over there. And then I tell his story, completely illiterate and self-taught, you know, and so his story I share. And so I have two of his recipes here, never before written down. And I sat and then, you know, sort of recreated because he also, by memory, knew his father's recipe. So I saw him cook and we recorded his recipe. So this is one vegetarian and one non-veg. Sorry. Go ahead. Well, Jamil Saab, my publisher is right behind and we in the contract we have discussed publication in Urdu, you know, which is one of the national languages of the country. I'm not sure. I think the reaction would be that it would sell more. That's for sure. Because there is English language books in Pakistan sell so many. I think the vast majority of books would be in colloquial languages, you know, in the vernacular languages. So I hope so. I wish so. I tried them all darling. Oh, favorite. Well, favorite is, you know, ash, which I know how to make, and sort of self kids. Every family has a different ash recipes like one of those recipes. One of us who have a Kandahari, you know, sort of Balochistan link or heritage with Afghanistan. Those households have an ash recipe. So the hazard. The ash recipe was very different. You know, so it held a lot of emotion for me, because I make an ash as well and this was a different ash. And so I really enjoyed that one. You know, it was like looking at food in a food memory, you know, like I have a different memory. They have a different memory we were sharing and exchanging, you know, like memory. And also, Laundi, you know, like, I made Laundi myself, you know, three times since the course of food mapping. And Laundi was made last in a household in Kazi house, when my grandmother was alive, you know, so again it was, you know, like kind of carrying on the tradition and then, you know, like, I made parcels after eight weeks and I distributed it to, you know, the family and, you know, friends and so you know it was like kind of the sense of community where food was being made, you know, like in great grandfather's house and I made it and then you know I was parceling it and then, you know, sending it to, you know, like different parts of the country and you know so that was kind of nice. I mean, Nushul Gai didn't make the cut, hopefully in the next version edition we will have, which is an interesting fruits and dry fruits and nuts kind of a samosa but not quite, you know, so it was kind of reflective of you know, like the fruit basket that is Balochistan or Pakistan. You know, we may not be, you know, we have water deficit issues and we are not a big agro-garian society but we are the fruit basket of the country. So that recipe kind of reflected that element. So hopefully in the second edition Nushul Gai will make the cut. Then, you know, what I found Osman that, you know, every time I traveled back and went back to Pashin and then I found there was more I could have written. And I think I drove Jamil Sab and Bikan, I was insane because I wanted more and more and more and at some point, you know, like they is like, okay, fine, you know, this is the deadline and now we need to edit it and, you know, edit it down, etc. So I have a very strong sense that edition two, if we ever get into edition three, there will be more because they just is so much more, you know, grape and manifestations and varieties of grape related stuff, which is absent, you know, when we have an incredible amount of grape related stuff in Balochistan. Now the challenges and, you know, distances, I mean, you know, like Balochistan is massive, you know, and where do you stay. Like, I wanted to go to the interiors, you know, this really heart of Balochistan. In fact, I wanted to even travel to Guadhar through Quetta, I mean, like, you know, cut right across it. So, you know, those are, you know, there's a physical challenge, you know, to some extent, less so now I think security challenge, but logistical challenges and staying time, you know, because the distance are really long, you know, our next door neighbor is like four hours away, so the very, you know, like distances. And then also, you have to spend time, you know, so one is distance but then also the explorer because what I'm doing is for the first time I can't Google it. So the only way this research comes into being is where I just I have to actually spend time. And it's sort of kind of, you know, reveals itself over time and through conversations through degrees of separation and exploring different avenues and that takes time, which again, you know, is precious and sometimes you don't have both the financial resources and just the time and the logistical infrastructure for it to be viable. So, as I say in the beginning and in the end, I mean, this hopefully is like a platform for deeper, wider inquiry. And a more methodological and more intense interest in Balochistan, you know, people wise, location wise, food wise, food mapping wise, but this is a start. So it kind of hopefully tickles the senses of whoever from whatever angle to do more by the book, and you will see the recipes. So that answers the first question. Okay. On the second question, I think we've gone through this like multiple ways and the answer is yes, I have never seen so many check posts in my life. And we live in check post central in Pakistan. So that goes without saying. And I did not ask them about what their food was and what they were interested in because they want local. Which actually reminds me that you have a chapter on Baloch Baloch Asthani settlers in Islam. Don't you think you should have had something on the others settled in Balochistan. I know you talk about hazardous, but when you see the settler the chapter on the settlers of Baloch Asthan are displaced people. You know, so they had to leave whether for socio economic reasons or otherwise, and the numbers are growing so large. So hence I had a chapter on them. And what kind of impact and what kind of culinary culture do they bring with them, you know, wherever they are settled and in this case I was talking about Islam and the outskirts of Islam. But what you're talking about Baloch Asthan's had waves of migration, you know, like over centuries, you know, even the save our dynasty, which is like thousands of years old. You know, and the calates claim, you know, the connections from, you know, Syria. So, and the poctins, you know, like coming from Central Asia down as well. So, everyone is actually a settler Baloch Asthan, you know, so at different stages of history and I discussed that they're various groups and ethnic groups and they're mythology. Related to where they come from and who's ancestry. They link themselves. It's a very Pakistani thing. I'm not from here. I'm from somewhere else, you know, so it's also interesting but we are Central Asian, you know, like vast majority of people who come from Baloch Asthan have linkages to Central Asia. But of course, in the last 70, 100 years you have people coming from the east as well. You know, like so you have many communities, you know, who are not personal speaking Ravi speaking or Baloch speaking or Farsi speaking, who whose home is Baloch Asthan and believe you me, they are from Baloch Asthan. My father grew up with them, and they very much a part of the fabric of what is Baloch Asthan. Question I mean it's the reason why I food map Pakistan, you know, like, then I pontificate over why so much of our culinary culture is invisible, you know, and ironically the subject that you talk about what is outside of Baloch Asthan is usually chicken So, you know, like, there's a different, you know, like, take on which is fusion and modern and you do want it of course you know like, who decides you know what is and what isn't I'm actually fundamentally concerned that what is our traditional food and it's recorded what people do after with it. It's not my concern. In fact, welcome to and it sort of brings in modernity and you know fusion and you know is influences other food patterns and recipes, etc. That's how, you know, novel cuisine was created, you know, like, and how, you know, sort of incredible, you know, global cuisine it was from so many traditions, you know, and techniques, etc. So we have such diversity and such breadth in our culinary culture. So, step one, record it. Step two, understand it and then step 34. I'll leave it to someone else. Thank you, Neetu. I think identity politics is is very integral. I mean, I'm very secure in my identity as a Pakistani. I'm a Pukhtum. I'm a Pakistani. I come from two provinces. But I find that having come back to Pakistan, you know, this question of what is Pakistani, you know, like somehow is, you know, like, constantly being revisited and manufactured to some extent and, you know, like, I'm very uncomfortable with some of the stuff that I see I don't recognize and, you know, like, it's not how I see and, you know, envision the country and people, etc. Food also has started to reflect that. And I saw that connection as a political scientist, you know, the invisibility of our diversity, the, you know, the lack of acknowledgement of the larger Pakistan and Pakistanis. So, instead of going in the repetitive cycle that is Pakistani politics and Pakistani identity politics or the conversation about Pakistan by Pakistanis about Pakistan for Pakistan, I decided we just change the lens. And since no one's done it, it really needed to be done anyway, you know, and which country has not food mapped its, you know, its culinary heritage. I mean, in the 21st century. I mean, it's shocking that we haven't done it already. So, you know, it's kind of a combination, you know, of an interest and training and a complete absence of anyone having done it. So, you know, it's sort of the two sort of gelled. The next thing that I'm going to do is, inshallah, do the KP book, which will not be called KP. Please. Those of you who know, know me, Pakistan on a plate is a series on YouTube, Nilo first corner, 53 episodes, which cover all of Pakistan. And as I said, I thought mapped 100 districts. So I've really done all of Pakistan, the books. This is the first of four books. So the next book is my maternal province, which is currently called KPK, but the book will not be called KPK. So then hopefully, you know, send in Punjab and others and what, what I want, what I want. I don't know what I want. I want people to enjoy the book, buy the book, buy lots of the book. So if you think about, you know, like my country, my people, my food, you know, with love and interest and curiosity. That's what I want. Wide, deep question. If they was or at March in Quetta organized, they had difficulty, but they still continued and I think they started with the Balochistan University sort of platform. Rather, we recently had massive, you know, protests and rights and women were involved in it as much women are involved at every level of every activity in Balochistan, whether you acknowledge it or you don't acknowledge it. I mean, they are fundamental to everything from cooking to culture to human rights to everything. And by the way, this is, this happens within the traditional boundaries. This happens in a modern boundary. This happens within the feudal structures. This is reality. So how you see it and how you acknowledge it or don't acknowledge it, that just depends on the narrator or the recorder. So I think, I hope my book does capture that sense, because that is the truth. You know, yeah. Which is the name of the province, the third largest province before Punjab is the largest in terms of population. And then you have Sint, then you have KPK, the reason why and then you have Balochistan Balochistan is the largest in terms of population, which is 42% of the country, area wise, your land wise. And so the reason why I was like just being facetious on KPK is that the name of KPK used to be called the frontier province. And so, you know, it's had many names and before that there was also another name. So I haven't decided what I'm going to call it because this is an area which again, you know, how you define this area is interesting. Like it recently, the FATA districts, which were the federally administered territories have now been included into KPK. So as the book suggests, and I will repeat myself, we are an ancient people in a young country. So everything that we capture and write in whatever form and whatever lens reflects that. So borders currently we are in Pakistan. So I talk about Pakistan and the land that we have today that constitutes Pakistan. But I also share, you know, our histories and our connections, you know, and our shared, you know, past and identities. So it's kind of all combined. Ask Jamil Saab that question, you know, on the availability for Pakistan, I hope soon. Pakistan on a plate has been swimming in my mind and I touch upon this whole process in the book. So I will not answer it here by the book and you will read it. And the recipes chose me. I didn't choose the recipes. I didn't do any filtering where I came across a recipe, which was the criteria was that it's not in a restaurant. It's not in a DABA and it hasn't been published. That was my criteria. I'm making invisible visible and I'm documenting the undocumented. That's the criteria. Actually, Gwadri Halwa, anything that takes a lot of strength, you know, like are made in very large quantities and requires an incredible amount of manpower, you know, the main of men. So large scale food, you know, or baking, the very large stuff that men do. Yes, I mean, and this is something I share with you that in the book, traditional food obviously don't have recipe cards and, you know, measuring ingredients to an exact science, but I do that for you. Hence, Colony Materials of Balochistan is a recipe book. It's a cookbook. So if you have the ingredients, you can replicate it. I would say 95% of the stuff that you're going to read, I would say that you probably have never heard of it. So, I mean, you know, Gwan soup, for example, which is wild pistachio bean soup, you know, which is very rare for most Pakistanis. I would actually safely say outside, probably no one knows about it, you know. Fish Halwa, I mean, outside of maybe one state in Sindh, I don't think anyone's really tried it, knew about it. But it makes perfect sense because it's, you know, a product of fisherfolk. I mean, everything is fish. They eat dried fish, you know, and why wouldn't they sweetened fish? Why wouldn't they make a sweet meat out of it? Well, amazon.co.uk has it and beaconbooks.net, my publisher's website also has it. And if you happen to be here, you can also purchase it over here. And there is one other PockDepository.com, which is also a global distributor. I hope to write the next book and get focused on that, you know. Hopefully I'll begin in late summer and because I have four to write, so I need to get going. You have so many positive comments. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Very kind. I hope I'll get a chance to see every one of the comments and also respond to them where I can. Thank you so much for listening and participating by the book. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much. The book is here for you to buy, get signed by the author. And my one last comment for Jamil Saab is, Jamil Saab, next version of it, you have to make this book more accessible. Thank you. Thank you for either. Thank you.