 Welcome to the drum history podcast. I am your host Bart van der Zee and today I'm joined by Ron Weinstein who is the originator of tuxedo gig bags Ron welcome to the show. Thanks. Thanks for having me Bart Yes, we've been talking for a while This is that that seems to be a theme on the show recently where I'm kind of getting a lot of people such as yourself Where we've been talking for about a year almost in September. It'll be a year and we're finally making it happen and I want to say really quickly. Thank you to Greg Chatter and I'm sorry about butchering your last name Who sent me a nice message and copy and pasted basically a very cool story that Ron told on the Slingerland sets and snare drums Facebook group and that prompted this whole thing and Now here we are today to kind of really dig deeper into the origins of Tuxedo bag so all that being said Ron, why don't you just go back to the beginning and How did all this start? well, the the tuxedo start happened around 1981 I was living in Las Vegas and I had the usual gripe a lot of guys had with Symbol bags where They would rip out symbol edges eventually would always eat through the bottom of a symbol bag and at that time I knew this girl that sold industrial fabrics she was a representative and Like she sold the Nomex to Simpsons racing for those fireproof suits. Oh, yeah, and she says there's a new fabric out and Brand new and it was called Cordura by Dupont that she represented And they had a second version called Antron Cordura, which made it a very smooth and shiny finish and not the Stubbly finished like our most cordura is today that you see So I said wow now that stuff is really strong It's it was waterproof coated on one side and you couldn't rip it at all Hmm, and I said this could really work out. There are things I'd like to design a little bag that I think I could use Said okay, so I said here's what I want to do we got some of this fabric and I said well a lot of times the handles the straps always rip out and nog a hide and Canvas also because they're they die out So we got at that time also was brand new was like nylon seatbelt webbing Nobody was really using it for luggage and all that stuff and the plastic buckles that look like Seatbelt buckles, you know that you see on all luggage today that lock into each other sure nobody was using those So I said well, let's let me design something we you know and We we made it also so the straps once you had the handle on the on the symbol bag The straps were also sewn straight down from where they touched the handle and went around the bottom of the bag up to the other side Hmm, I said well this is gonna hold all the weight you could possibly imagine. Yeah, cuz symbols are heavy I mean when you have a bag full of symbols It can weigh. I mean, I feel like it's like 20 could be 20 30 pounds. Exactly. Yeah, yeah So I said well this would never rip out and the sharp edge of the symbol You know normally would rip out the bottom to not only with this cradle the symbols We also Before we sewed the two halves of the symbol bag together We ran that seat belt webbing all around between the two halves So the edge of the symbol would rest on that nylon webbing also. Hmm. So this was really like a solid bag And I said well, you know, this is this is really cool We had one made by someone that she sold the fabric to was a industrial sewing company And they made me a sample of the bag and I tried it out and I said wow, this is gonna work and did a few refinements size-wise and you know and aligning we put the Laminated some foam to an inside nylon lining. So all that gets pressed together and then you sew the bag So at that time I said well, what if I use this stuff for a stick bag also Okay, so we made a pretty normal stick bag but with the nylon handle and But the unique thing I had another idea I said one thing I don't like about these stick bags When you go to strap it on to your floor tom-tom, you know, there's those straps that come out the side Yep, and there are always they were elastic with an s-hook Exactly and you put the s-hook through the the lug, you know And I that could scratch the drum but also depending on how much weight you had it in the stick bag It would move up and down. I said well, here's just let's take this thinner Let's take this seatbelt webbing and attach velcro on The end with a piece of velcro where it attached and then sew that to the bag And that way a wouldn't stretch and be you you could loop it through the lug and Attach it to itself and you couldn't scratch anything. So we did that. No one had done that before So we made a simple bag and a stick bag and that was the start of it That's I love the attention to detail Early on I mean that that you're so right though about like, you know, you have this $2,000 drum set and that little kind of piece of metal that comes up from a normal traditional stick bag That wraps around your little, you know around the log around the tension rod there. It's then it's ruining your your drum finish It's it's like a rash. I mean, it's kind of like if you don't protect your bass drum hoop with a bass drum pedal It's it's it's ruined. Well, so I want to obviously move forward here But before we move forward, let's let me ask you the question too. You mentioned that There was some predecessors like you said Naga hide correct. What what was the I know We know it's stick bags that kind of scratch your drum But what were people using before this before we go forward like what was as far as? Symbol bags and all that kind of stuff. What were you improving upon at that point? Oh, besides the Naga hide that would crack and dry out and rip before that there were like like drum bags and stuff We're sort of like a canvas. Hmm And that's all they had and they really didn't have any padding and then you just covered your bag and other than that a Fiber cases. Gotcha Yeah, yeah, which would be like You know, the which which are not I mean it even today It's more heavy-duty. I mean those the fiber kind of like those are like more hard road cases clearly, right? Like those are for yeah, it's a little different than just putting your drum in a bag I mean that's a case right the fiber cases were kind of thin, you know, it was made out of whatever they used It wasn't plastic, you know It was some kind of fiber and you usually I remember years when I first got one you had to like spray You had a shellacum because if they were out in the rain Forget it. They were no good. Yeah, you know, so that's that's what people used on the road They'd used fiber cases. Yeah, and that that happened for a long time I actually kind of funny side note story and then we'll carry on from there but I was so I was going to the University of Cincinnati here that the The music school there for for audio engineering and stuff And so I was I was doing a lot with music up the street from my house There was a bar that had a big parking lot and we would you know go to the bar and hang out and stuff But one day I was kind of going down the hill to my house and I looked over and I went There's an entire set of those like fiber kind of old vintagey drum cases sitting in the parking lot And I was like In no way I'm not the kind of guy where I'm like, oh, that's mine I'm taking it, but I think I I was like, okay. Whoa. I think I went home and like Four or five hours later I because I figured maybe a band was playing there and they left them and you know They would they would come back for them Um But I kind of thought later if it was like, you know half the day like later then Okay, they're not coming back. They must have gone and there's probably no way to to get them So anyway, I drove up. I picked them up I was looking at them I was kind of I did look if there was like a name or something and I wanted to see if I could return them but They uh They were nice. It was it was bass drum. It was two toms. It was a snare. It was, you know, the floor tom case but all of the The straps The wraps were rotted out They were they like it was like they had just been like snapped and there was and they were they were frayed But the the kicker that was not good was they were um Uh They were sewn and connected to the case. So there was no real replacing them You'd have to use like a bungee or something but It just even that technology then which they seemed like they were from I mean at that point this was 2010 or 2012 or something So they must have they were actually probably probably riveted to the case. They were riveted to the case So I'm assuming they were from the 90s or from the 80s or something They were just someone's dads who they gave them to them and then they played with them They were shot. They were like not fixable But I kept them for years and moved them from studio to studio like us drummers do when we just moved I I recently repaired some fiber cases for that same reason really or not. Yeah, what I did Real quick. I I I had a couple of Like my a bass drum fiber case where the straps, you know, were ripped off. Okay. So what I did I took out the rivets And I went down to the uh to a thrift store And I bought a couple for one dollar each. I bought a couple of belts Black belts. Yeah, I cut the belt to the size I wanted punch some holes in it And and and drilled a couple holes and put in some new rivets I fixed it probably looks nicer too than the old kind of nylani, uh, like Uh, that's that's funny because you're the tuxedo guy, you know, I've got a black belt for your tuxedo Yeah, because originally they were black leather straps leather. Okay. Yeah Yeah, and I fixed them man Well, you gotta, you know, it's better than throwing stuff away I think I ended up selling the cases that I found like years later I ended up selling them to someone who fixed them. I think for like 75 bucks or 50 bucks, which um Not bad, but all right. Anyway back on the timeline here. So you had you had created A stick bag and a cymbal bag Um, where you're using the seat belt material. You're using all this very modern Uh, for the time material that no one else was using so you're kind of like ahead of the curve I love that that you're you're looking at something and you see it and go hey man, that could be That I could use that for you know us drummers and and it could change the game. So Uh, what happened from there? From there, I showed them to to my mentor and advisor Louis Belson Louis to me is the all-time Saint of drums. Yes, and We were very close from the time I was 16 years old and I'll go back to that. Yeah story later. Sure. I showed him to Louis He dug him. He said well, what we got to do what was coming up then Was the the NAM show in Los Angeles? And all the music merchants would be there. That's where everybody goes So we said, uh, let's go to the NAM show So Louis and I went there And I and I had the one cymbal bag and one stick bag and we We showed them to a guy that Louis had known for years Chuck Molinari Chuck was Bob Yeager's partner Bob Bob Yeager and Chuck own the pro drum shop in Hollywood. Yeah Now Chuck had left pro drum shop and opened up his own company called spectra sound percussion Where he made wind chimes and a lot of percussion products So we went to Chuck's booth and of course Who was there, you know besides Chuck? I remember, uh, there were some drummers there Because Louis knows everybody we're all talking and looking they they dug the bag Well, Chuck turned to me and says, uh, you know, can you are you making these? And I said, yeah, well Yeah, I could he says, let me have a hundred of each first order. Yeah, I said I turned to Louis, right? I said I think I'm in business I mean, I knew nothing about this, you know And that was the start chuck and he asked could he have the Uh exclusive for the first year distributorship Or first six months or a year I said, yeah, sure I don't know anybody else So I then went had a you know Bought the fabric and went to one of the contract sewers in LA And uh, and I was living in Vegas at the time by then and uh Uh, we made up those bags and I shipped them to to chuck And people he started getting some interest people liked them So the next nam show that came up Uh I think it was I don't know whose decision it was my decision or louis or whatever that I would get my own booth Because now by this time I had also made Bags for the drums too same fabric Same almost the same construction the nylon straps and uh on the edge instead of just Sewing the edges together we used a plastic welting inside, you know, it looks like a black strip that goes around the outside You've seen on better products Yeah And on the inside instead of the where the two pieces meet we put what's called a binding tape over that So everything was covered everything was strong And when I did I got my own booth a little 10 by 10 booth at the next nam show And I got a lot of interest And what what I would do to show how strong it was Um, I would have like a six by six inch square of that Antron nylon Cordura, yeah And I slid it with a scissor about two inches and I would give the piece to somebody I'd say here He says try to tear it. Well from once it started it won't tear. Wow You know, you could slit it with a scissor Sure, but but from there would you grab the two halves? You can't tear it any further. It's rip stop nylon. Wow So I said this is I said and I at the time original I said and I'm the way these straps are sewing on I'm guaranteeing this bag for life. Well, everybody told me don't do that. That's not a good idea But I was that confident I said look you could stand on a bag I had a bag they could stand on a drum bag and and pull on the handle While the bag was under their feet and you couldn't rip it off. Wow Wow, man, that's a bold statement. But I mean really When you're when things are in the back of a van or on a bus and getting thrown around and you know Maybe your drums fall over and they get hit by something. It's nice to know that you're um, You know, you're putting your very very valuable and a lot of times rare drums, you know out in the world In a cheap case. It doesn't make sense. So it Seems like there was a need in the market for this and you filled it Um, and let me ask this so so technically you were covering and putting the tape on the inside and all this stuff to avoid there being any kind of like Sharp ish edges like the zipper or anything touching the drum, correct The zipper was totally had flaps. Yeah over it and the the What's where it was sewn, you know, you have ragged edges We put that binding tape over it and that way, you know, it couldn't shred and come apart Everything was was covered. That's great. Were you called tuxedo bags at that point or had that had you had that name yet? Yes, at I at that point, uh, the logo it said tuxedo uh gig bags And we had a little bowtie under the logo. Yeah, and and also to make the bed I always wanted it to look good and and work well But I knew a lot of times appearance is a lot instead of just having a little Paper label or something, you know, I actually got a an embroidered patch Made with the logo sewn onto each bag Yeah, I mean it's attention to detail which it's I don't know it all kind of works tuxedo Attention to detail very sharp and clean kind of not not sharp literally because you wouldn't have that it'd be covered Right, you know, and I my slogan at that time was formal wear for your axe Oh Very nice It's true tuxedo part and I almost think I don't know just the the connection to louis belson Everyone thinks of a very well-dressed man who's a gentleman and you know, it just all it just all fits together Um Yeah, I mean there's There's nothing like him. We you know and then also We took a picture of lou holding up the symbol bag and the stick bag And I put it on a on a hang tag. I put that picture on a hang tag On each bag and each item. Yeah, and uh, and louis signature was across the picture and My on top of that tag it said caught holding the bag louis belson I mean if I remember correctly, you said louis was not charging you louis your mentor and buddy and was just happy to do it, right? Absolutely. I was so naive You know when I when this thing started and you know and louis and I showed it and we took a picture and I said Can I can put it on the tag? He said yeah, sure whatever I I really I was so naive that you know people like that have these big contracts You know with drum companies and cymbal companies all that stuff You know louis just said yeah, let's do it Wow Did not realize I mean you obviously probably would have been successful and quality is key and people would have seen that but man He really he bumped you up Oh having his picture on on the on hanging on each bag. Yeah, it doesn't get much bigger than that Especially in those days nowadays, you know, I mean he's been gone for quite some time So it might not you know, people might say who's this guy, but I feel like at that point I mean he was still you know a king Still as obviously but well, it's pretty amazing to me and you know, you being a drummer and knowing history I mean I I run into somebody today Like even my wife we were on the golf course my wife ran into somebody a couple weeks ago And somehow drums came up and and it's oh, yeah, right my my kid plays drums, you know, this guy says Oh, and uh, my wife says did do you know who louis belson is? And this kid he didn't know who louis was yeah, you know, I mean The shame if if if we had youtube tv Years and years ago where you could pull everybody up and learn something and see these people They don't know louis used to have a line all the time You have to know to to know where you're going. You have to know where you came from Yeah Very very true. You studied those people. Yeah Yep. Yep. I mean that's I I've had that where I'll post, you know these drum videos and stuff and and I get some guys and girls who comment very Frequently, it'll be like, uh, man. I didn't know people could play like that back then It'll be like a buddy rich video You have a lot to uh To learn it's not all this. I mean the people have been Absolute monster drummers and and and and double bass didn't always exist It had to come first from you know from someone from louis from louis exactly with the big four times the originator of Double bass drums. Yeah. Yeah Okay, and we'll we'll talk more about louis But so I think we left off on the bags with you were at the booth You had people cutting and tearing and they couldn't do it and and all this stuff. So so it was it was obviously, uh You know, you were getting some attention right at now I was getting some attention There and you know, people didn't realize how small I was I was shipping fob my kitchen You know, I mean, I didn't have any place I would I had bags made up and shipped them out Then I had to get a little little warehouse garage size type warehouse and office to Store stuff because now I had to have an inventory of all the different sized drum bags I had a cardboard boxes to ship them in You know, all that stuff I started to learn And I even got a I had to get a loan from the small business administration Because all that stuff cost money and I didn't realize it, you know, I mean Promotion and and all that stuff and advertising and I the home I had at the time I put up as collateral for that sba loan And that came into play Later again, you know, but that's what I had to do to get this thing off the ground And I didn't ask anybody for any money. I would never ask louis for a dime And I'm sure he would have helped me any way I wanted And uh, it's just just the way I was I was gonna I was gonna do it And uh, it it worked. I got a lot of attention at that nam show And people were coming over and studying the bags I I had, uh, it might have been my the next nam show I had these uh Japanese guys come over They came to my booth like three or four times and they stood there and they would talk to each other in Japanese And they were holding the bags and looking at them and you know, all this stuff and and I said man, these guys are just gonna rip me off Well, it turns out the on sunday the last day of the nam show They came to my booth And gave me their card. They were tama drums. Wow neat And they asked me if I would make that exact same bag for them in a different color Geez, that's big. I said, yeah, that was big. I said, yeah And I can't remember the size of the other but they gave me an order and what I did instead of my tuxedo patch I put a a tama embroidered patch on each bag And they loved the way it all looked And they they bought a bunch of bags from me Maybe a year or so later. They didn't really stay with me because I figured they could copy it in japan You know, I was yeah at that point, but they they gave me a substantial order um A big music company in hong kong I think tom lee is the biggest music Stories chain they ordered from me Australia ordered from me germany all of a sudden people were ordering from me and Man i'm i'm in business. Yeah, you're actually uh I mean It's it's so it's so cool. I mean you hear about that. It's almost like uh, like modern times It's like these like, you know, like on tv like shark tank or something. It's like an idea that that really blows up So with the tama stuff what Year was that happening because I mean if it's you know 80s 90s That's really when when the japanese drums were were were just blowing up in general I'd say tama was probably 83 okay Yeah, 82 or 83 interesting that's uh And you were right there at the right time with with those brands coming in and uh Yeah, simon phillips and all these guys that maybe I'm not sure when he actually came to tama, but um, it's they really took the market so Like you said though People can you were first to market with this which is obviously very important, but I'm assuming people did start to sort of encroach on your uh, you know idea a little bit Some knockoffs did come out shortly after my first NAMM show appearance um A guy named fred bedo beado made beado bags And it was actually a much cheaper version than mine And also my bags compared to what was out there even in his were the most expensive I wasn't cheap because I used the best materials Yeah, you know, I even got tags from dupont to hang on each and each piece You know said dupont cordura, you know, I wasn't hiding anything, you know, this is it So fred fred knocked me off a little bit and he got some Business because you know in the music industry these store owners They care about price more than anything Yeah, they really do sure, you know how cheap can you give it to me for And and the bag fred was and and yet even at the shows when I would talk to fred, you know I never had any animosity toward any of these people. Hey, you know, do your thing man, you know, this is mine. That's yours. Cool and Stuff like that and then with louis. I also went to rimo Now, you know the odd shape of roto toms. Yeah. Well, I designed and made up some bags to hold the roto toms And that really they liked it, but they really didn't go anywhere because they didn't want to get into bags And then also uh with zildjian, you know, uh arman led, you know, because of louis You know, I had entries to everybody. Yeah, and and I got to be friendly with you know with rimo and loyden mccosland at rimo and uh arman zildjian who was a great guy and lenny demesio who did all the you know the zildjian artist relations things And for and picked out all the everybody symbols You know, like if louis needed symbols he calls zildjian and and lenny demesio would pick him out or you know and ship them to you Whether it was louis buddy any of those guys, but like obviously you yourself are a likeable nice guy and That connection and mentorship basically led to your friendship with louis, which louis really great relationship and friendship and being a nice guy with these companies led to your ability to um have these connections and have that trust so it just kind of comes back to like Good business and being nice to people and uh and and and down to human relationships Um because without that you wouldn't have gotten anywhere louis wouldn't want to be around you You know what I mean like it's it's absolutely It's pretty powerful stuff. You know, there's three things that I point to in all the years of my relationship with louis You know, maybe I'll throw them in here early and we'll get back to some of the other stuff, but one of them was uh louis being Best man at my wedding And then uh When when he was pretty old like in his 2004 maybe he did a concert of sacred music He premiered up in northern california and uh my wife and I flew up there and surprised him and At the end you know when you introduce people and you thank the orchestra and all that stuff He introduces me in the audience as someone who's been with him over 40 years and you know, I mean that like I was crying, you know, I mean you can't beat that and that's even that's on youtube if anybody wants to look it up It's called louis intro of ron and charma. You know, that's awesome. And then I was asked I was paul bear and his futile And that's three milestones For me. Yeah, clearly He was a great friend to you obviously And I mean Just the business thing. So so you know rewinding a little bit here. So so you were like um, I guess personally I should ask Was this this was your job like your nine to five job was tuxedo bags because You were a full at that point business. Okay, so before that though I'm assuming, you know, you had other jobs and stuff going on. What what was your like trade, you know, that you would be I mean, I'm a drummer drummer, you know originally um, and then when I got to vegas i got to vegas i was working i got there Wayne newton brought me there. Oh cool. And there was a uh He had a management company this is 19 Seven 1971 I met him Wayne was a guest Louis had known wane because he appeared in his show at the time but 1970 Wayne was a guest on the pearl bailey show on abc tv pearl being louis wife. Yes, and I at that point I had left new york, uh I finished at berkeley and went out there and I was working as louis assistant on the pearl bailey show and Wayne was a guest and I could meet him and they had a he had a management company at the time for different acts And they were putting a like in those days. They had what's called show bands, you know And you'd go around the country playing all the holiday ends or amada ends, you know In vegas and they they called me see if I wanted to play in one of those bands And I said, yeah, I'll do it. So I joined that band then I moved to vegas a couple years later and uh Then I eventually I stopped playing I said I got tired of the row. I got a little beat up mentally on the road and Uh, I had this 1973. I had this girlfriend whose mother was dating a pit boss in a casino She says hey, you want to be a dealer? I go hey Yeah, I'll do that. You know, and uh, he and in those days To get anything in vegas it was all juice who you know, you know And he puts me in as a as a 21 dealer and for you know it after 25 years, I did everything from Break-in dealer to casino manager. Wow, I ran the opera in in strip casinos Cool, so I had a great career there too, but didn't stop playing You know, I played once in a while and practiced and you know My relationship with louis was still solid all those years and uh And that's that was my most of my time in vegas This episode is brought to you by nicky moon custom symbols Nicky moon custom symbols are premium quality boutique symbols handmade in the usa Nick marguerite owner and craftsman is a classically trained professional independent symbol smith with over 10 years experience Who has traveled all over the world studying with masters and working in symbol factories to perfect his craft Nicky moon offers a wide range of fully customizable series and models to choose from including sentinel dirty angel shop stainless steel and the critically acclaimed one series Nicky moon also provides full service symbol modification and repair services Any old symbol can be sent in reworked and reimagined into something completely new and different the possibilities are endless Get in touch at nickymoon.com and all drum history podcast listeners can get 10 off their next order by using coupon code drum history pod that's drum history pod Go to nickymoon.com n i c k y moon dot com to learn more and follow on instagram at nicky moon underscore symbols All right now getting back on to tuxedo bags. All right, so you were starting to get ripped off. You said, uh, Beato, which i've always called it beat oh Begs. Yeah, i didn't know if it was beat oh i called it beat oh too, but i think He's a spag. I think he calls it he calls it beat oh when he has his name because that's his last name Sure, sure There's so many names where people's toma tamma piste pasty beat oh beato All right, so then What happened from there, you know, you're kind of I think you said mid 80s Let's say you're you're getting kind of ripped off a little bit, but you're going strong You're working with rimo. You're working with zilgen Take it from there Yeah, well, okay. I made a bag for zilgen and I like the bag but zilgen was really growing Uh commercially at that point even though everybody loved zilgen, you know, all sudden they went they got a you know a president And you know all of a sudden they were it wasn't just arm and running the company anymore You know, it was always corporate suits So then they came out with the zilgen bag And it was it was different than mine, but they didn't You know that didn't go anywhere, but you know, but I did show them the bag and I stayed Very friendly with zilgen Uh Through the years after that even just you know as friends. There was a there was a time in 1979 Louis slingelin drums had the louis belson national drum contest for best drummer 18 I think 18 and under which louis had won when he was everything the gene krupa contest Yeah, well, they put together the louis belson national drum contest when he went with slingelin then in 79 so and I remember we were the the finals were in vegas and We're at this reception And I'm standing i'm talking with uh with armond and lenny. Do you know lenny demisio who we is, you know No, um, I feel like the name has probably come up, but I not off the top of my head. No He also has a book out called tales from the cymbal. He died just a couple years ago Tales from the cymbal bag all his stories with people and you know He he was the artist rep and everything for I don't know 30 40 years was ill to check that out Well, he's the guy and uh, and there's actually a picture in there of me with louis and wane In that book, but so we're standing around talking and armond says to me. Have you seen these new? I think they were the quick beats the the hi-hats with the holes in the bottom cymbal Yeah, I think quick beats. I think new beats. No no hole Okay, so so armond says have you seen these these quick beats? I go no, I haven't seen him yet He says yeah, look he says they got these holes in the bottom. They're really nice He says, what are you playing these days? And I said well, I'm using a 20 inch, you know ping ride and an 18 inch medium ride and And a 16 crash and everything he says. Yeah, okay. That's that sounds good Two or three days later. There was a package at my door a whole set of cymbals from armond zildjian Wow, I mean, how do you beat those guys? Oh, that's those old school guys. Yeah I'm just amazing. That is just so cool. I mean a set of cymbals Now then whenever is expensive Mm-hmm. So that's a that's a that's a nice little perk for But you're an industry guy at that point, you know, I mean you're at that point, right? Yeah, but I was still playing he says you're still playing. I go, yeah once in a while He says, what are you playing and I told him the sizes and that's what he sent me Good memory too, you know Yeah, I mean that's Armond was great and even even over at Remo when I would hang out with Lloyd McCausland Who was the guy that ran all the production and stuff that Remo, you know, he made sure You know, I I told him what drums I had. Oh, I got a box of all of drumheads from Remo, you know Which louis louis mr. Remo. I mean as far as I know from doing previous episodes I mean he was like a stockholder with Remo. I mean he he Yes, all about it. He's one of that. He was listed. I have his business card as vice president But that was because you know when Remo started louis actually Probably funded him to start Remo. Mm-hmm. Man Louis has his you know His his legacy kind of spread all around the place. Um, which is great. So Absolutely. All right. Well, keep going from there. Well at that point I'm in business now about four years And I'm just trudging along and I went back to the For more advice to the small business administration And they said well at this point, you know, I said I got I need more marketing and and advertising and promotion And they said well, you need Like $250,000 from marketing you got to take out ads You know, you got to reach all these people and I said, well, I I can't get that, you know, I don't have in this net. So I figured well, I'm about to sell what I have And get out of the biz so at the different nam shows though, I I had met and talked to uh urwin berg from umes and berg and They they made road cases You know and they made they were the Biggest company that made fiber cases for 50 because they had already been in business 50 years Uh Irwin berg's father willy berg started the company over 50 years And they made, you know, trumpet mutes called stone mutes. They're white with that red I think that's umes and berg mutes. Wow, cool. And that's where they started And then they got into fiber cases and and band equipment and stuff So they're in business 50 years and I got friendly with irwin. We were just uh, you know, we used to Tell jokes to each other irwin berg round weinstein two jewish guys at the nam show. We just you know laugh it up and It was it was funny That he liked my bags, but didn't know Didn't really want to know what to do with it. Well, I was home. I think it was around It was in october maybe 84 And I get a phone call like at seven in the morning And it was irwin berg And he says, you know, hey, what are you doing? I said nothing. I'm just trudging along and in my head I heard it was going to go out of business at the end of the year He says are you interested in any kind of You know Me buying your your product I go, well, yeah talk to me, you know, what he got in mind And again, I didn't really know for much and for you know, what he says, let me get a contract going and me I was going to go. Okay. You want to give me something? Fine. It's yours, you know Well, all of a sudden I get this 25 page Lawyer contract, you know with all these ins and outs And you know, I I said Yeah, okay. It's yours, you know, he paid off they paid off the loan that I had with the sba and He got all the The designs but by that time also I was making uh guitar bags and trumpet bags saxophone bags And they took all the designs and they they owned it all and they were gonna make it and I just had to appear at the next couple namshoes at their booth As a representative. Yeah, and and that was it. He Come january the next namsho. It was humans and bergs tuxedo bags man I mean it you sound like you're just a very um I don't want to say I guess like happy go lucky kind of guy Were you at all like this is my baby. I'm getting rid of it You honestly don't sound like you sound like you're like, I had a great time I had a good experience and I was kind of done with it. Did you have any what were your emotions like with that? My emotions were I wasn't like I was done with it I really loved it like you said that was my baby But then I said to myself Well, here's the situation humans and bergs has been in business over 50 years You know, they don't have to sell to distributors. They sell direct to every music store. They sell direct to every school system You know band risers band to quit all that stuff band stands I said who better to take this where it can go. I couldn't take it to the ultimate and they could And so it was like a naturally I was proud that that they did it and I was able to get out of it without losing a dime You know and it was just fun and at the time I go to that next nam show and with urwin and His son was there Mike Berg. Yeah Who runs it now? Mike was like 15 or 16 And we just teased him unmercifully, you know, Mike and he's a great kid and he's running the whole shebang now Irwin is pretty much retired And what he's done with it now I mean those cases he puts out You know the hide hard cases. Yeah, they're really cool. They're great and all the colors and at the time Even urwin what he did To get tuxedo produced. He was he still used a solar in the united states My solar in california actually and then he set up his own sewing factory In east chicago indiana where hemsenberg is And then it got so big where he set up and still has his own Bad company they make the bed in china directly And that's his he's not having somebody in china make it. He set up his own sewing operation in china. Wow And as far as soft bags are concerned and they've made other types now They got the tuxedo. They have the fuzzy kind, you know, they have different levels of of soft bags now Yeah, but basically like a tuxedo bags sewn still sewn exactly the same way And they're the largest gig bag company in the world Yeah, absolutely. And I mean if they were kind of known and are known as the hard cases then why not include the most high quality Soft bag under the umbrella. So I think you you obviously chose the right, you know Yeah, it was a natural extension for them. Yeah Yeah, that's great. I mean and and it's sounds like you had a great time and like like you said you had fun You I'm sure could support yourself Uh with yeah as a job selling these cases and boom you're in the industry and uh And all that stuff. So so where does it stand? Today, obviously so so hemsenberg is still making them. Oh, yeah, they still make tuxedo If you look at on their website or the catalog they still show it, you know They like I said, they make a couple other lesser Quality bags, but pretty much sewn close to it. But the fabric and stuff is a little different. They have different price points for different music stories now And uh, or even a few months ago called me up, you know, just out of the blue. Hey, how you doing, you know If I see something that mike posts on his facebook page, I you know, I always say so. Hey partner What's going on, you know, I even know I get nothing, you know from them today But uh, you know, I did get some royalties for the first couple years initially. That's great. You know, and it was great I like that you also were like going to like the small business association and asking for help and doing this stuff Because I think sometimes people forget that like there are resources Um that are there to help you and and obviously they said you need a ton of money Um and that kind of led to this but but just you know You can be just a guy just a drummer. Um, you know, who's not a You didn't go to business school for this stuff and get like an nba. So Right. Um, it's pretty cool that any any anyone can do it, but it's it's obviously a lot of hard work. Um All you have to do is know one of the most famous drummers in the world who will open that Yeah, that's it. That's the only That's the only thing you need. Um, but all right. So on that note, let's rewind. How did you meet louis belson when you were 16? I mean, how did your relationship with him happen? well, uh Being a drummer from the time I was Like say say 13 I had a snare drum and a hi-hat in the cymbal When I turned 16 the day I turned 16 um My oldest brother Co-signed a little Note for me at the local music store in upstate new york where i'm from And I got a rogerset because my favorite drummer Just listening and watching was louis belson and he played rogers then And I got a rogers set And then at that point and I could and I got a job and the music store let me pay 25 dollars A month till it was paid off in those days drum set was, you know, 300 dollars for rogerset So I did that and I was playing so now I was 16 a little later that I was in may a little later october I get my issue of downbeat magazine in the mail And on the cover was a picture of louis belson. It says louis belson back with duke And I I just wow, that's great. And I look in my low in the new york newspaper Couple within a few days or so and I see coming to Basin street east famous nightclub in new york city Duke ellington in his orchestra Well, I figured well, that's man louis back with duke I'm going I lived about an hour north of new york city at the time and At that point I said, well, I want to go see louis belson So my father took me we drove into the city to basin street to see louis belson and There there was We got a seat in those days, you know nightclubs Yeah, he had a stage and there was just like long tables that came emanated from the stage But we sat right in the front right in the middle in front of louis drums And I'm waiting I can't wait to see louis belson And I see there's a swinging door towards the rear of basin street Where the musicians are starting to come out and there's no curtain at this club in basin street The musicians are coming out and putting their horns on the stage So I said I said I'm going to go through that door. See what happens I walk through that door and I literally Bump in physically bump into louis belson and duke ellington. Oh boy They were talking and I started stammering. I said, oh louis I said, uh, I came a long way to see you tonight, you know, and you know, this is great and you know, little did I I'm practically I'm ignoring duke ellington. Yeah, you know And you know, and then I turned to him. I said mr. Ellen. Could you have louis do a drum solo? Oh, man, ellington And you know, I didn't say anything. I mean I talked to louis and then we got a typical Club camera girl in those days came back And took a picture of me and louis Not with duke though. I wish I would have had that in there But it was just me and louis and I'm holding the sticks. He's holding the brushes, you know, and We got that picture taken now. I go back out to the club. I sit there and here comes now that the show starts the the opening act was a very very young nobody knew jone rivers and After then ellington plays and then melton may was coming out the same But so i'm watching ellington and i'm i'm flipping out because louis right in front of me and you know You've seen videos of louis personality always smiling and looking at people. He just emanates And they played skin deep And that totally knocked me out Now when that show is over I follow louis off stage and go back there and we start talking again and you know I tell him i'm what a big fan. He and i am and all that stuff and you know when i want to see him He gives me This is louis belson. Oh, I showed him a picture of me on my roger set a little polaroid and he signed the back of that for me Wow, and then he he gives me his Home address and phone number in southern california Wow, who does that? Yeah, really? You know So That was my entree to louis I would keep I would write him Occasionally I would call I had I was I had huge fear to call him Because sometimes pearl bailey would answer the phone and she would frighten me to death You know and but uh, but he stayed and he always responded to me if I wrote him something And then he told me he was coming to new york I can't remember if that time he was coming with harry james band or his big band at the uh The river boat in the empire state building was a nightclub in the basement of the river boat and You know what I come help and be the band boy I said, well, yeah, sure You know, uh I did that I so I would take the bus from from where I lived into new york city at night And I was there with louis every night watching him play every night um You know another time he came into the city with pearl bailey. She was doing to be on the ed sullivan show He called me up and said yeah, I said, hey, I'm gonna have a lesson tomorrow with sol gubin Who was the tympaniast for the new york philharmonic louis was gonna have a lesson with him You know, you want to meet me? Oh, yeah Yeah, I took the bus into the city. I met him there. You know, it just our relationship grew for some reason of all the people that louis meets You know, why did he You know stick with me And then he came in with harry james band. We did the same thing um We were on the wrong time we went to philharmonic louis to do the mike douglas show all that stuff I everything I did was with louis for the next couple years Then I got out of high school and I said well, I spent a year on the road with a rock band at a high school and uh I said, well, I guess I want to go to berkeley louis wrote a letter of recommendation and made a phone call to somebody in berkeley and There I was I got into berkeley without an audition Oh You you can't You can't beat these stories. No, I mean and so I have to I spent two years of berkeley And I loved it and then he told me that uh pearl was going to get a tv show ABC I said, well, I'll come out and help. You know, I want to move out there and he says well You know, it's real tough in la these days. I said, I don't care what I do you know, so I moved to la in timber of 1970 and Was there is his assistant on the pearl bailey show And and we'd be in the music office and then each week the guest stars would come in like on monday And go over the music with louis and then the arrangers would make their charts and then friday There'd be a run through thursday friday and then taping friday night The guests that pearl had on that show for 13 weeks We had ellington. We had basie. We had louis armstrong uh Mel tormay I mean, tony bennett lucille ball bink rosby Everybody who was anybody was in louis office that week You know that I would get to hang with that's so cool And that was the end of an era Yeah, yeah those variety kind of you know, uh those shows like that where there'd be performers They just you know, they're so cool There's I feel like kind of variations of it now, but it's almost more competition based and it's just It was something special in those days And it only lasts the ratings weren't bad on abc They said the reason that they they cancelled it after just 13 weeks. It was too expensive for them to produce Yeah with all those guest stars big names and you're there for a week. Yeah Yeah, and and you know, I mean there were stories I remember of guest stars and I was always it was one of the things that's funny I was always like louis earpiece You know louis meets. I mean he would he would forget details And I remember this is now in 1970 beginning of 71 Joan rivers came to guest on pearl show And she was you're like, oh louis how you do remember? I met you, you know, you know five years ago, whatever You know from 65 and I lean over like a basin street east. She was the opening act and louis goes. Oh, yeah basin street And I was always doing that for him because I remembered all the details Is yeah, because for you it's like a mind-blowing once-in-a-lifetime thing and for him it's like that's every day Absolutely, absolutely. Wow So that's that evolved, you know to my relationship with louis and we stayed close over the years every place I ever lived whether it was a little apartment in in la or my little apartment in vegas and then a house and then house Louie would always come visit You know, we were just like father and son It was amazing. I knew his his sisters his brother It was just it was just nothing like it. Wow you're I don't want to say lucky because There's always the sayings of like well hard, you know luck Is made by hard work and by being in the right places and stuff But it's really you're right though where you're like, why did he choose you? there he obviously saw something in you and um And you guys just got along that that happens sometimes with You know, if you're kind of quote unquote, I guess his assistant or whatever He's got to like you and want to spend time with you and um And he had that relationship with others in different times, you know, like when I like with dave black It was a music student out in northbridge, california Uh, and also with andy weiss up in san jose area Um, so, you know, he's had that in different periods of his life different people have come in And you know to his life But uh, like he like he says in that intro of me and that you can see on youtube It's we were together over 40 years Wow, you know, and it's uh It's hard for me to fathom that whole thing When I think when I think back on it. Yeah, exactly and uh, and I do plan on doing because um, You know on the show there have been biographies on other major drummers But I'm working on one with andy and hopefully we can get you involved A biography on louis belson. Um, but andy had some some health issues with covet and we've kind of uh, you know, we're Gonna do it when we can do it. Um, so Man ron. Well, this is just turned into this is The kind of episode that I absolutely love just because it's not uh, I mean your story Is what it's all about. You know what? I mean, it's just it's a guy who worked hard and made a cool drum company It's full of all these great tales of drumming legends and and louis and and all this stuff. Um so um I want to thank you for being here and and also, um ron if you have a couple extra minutes I figured we could maybe hang out and do a little bonus episode for patreon where maybe we talk a little bit more about You know, I I always like to do on the bonus ones Like the behind the scenes a little bit on uh some trial and error and maybe some some things that you tried where Hey, this prototype didn't work at all and maybe there was a couple flubs here and there and um, I like to hear about that kind of stuff and and we'll see what else comes up. So um For people listening if you want to hear that bonus episode, you can go to drumhistorypodcast.com and there's a patreon button, um, which you click and two bucks a month and up. There's other perks, but Uh, you get those bonus episodes and a big thank you to greg chadaronek I'm gonna have trouble with that last name for the rest of my life. So thank you to greg Um for just he basically ron is you know, he read your story online and then boom it led to this a year later so You never know, it's thanks, you know, thanks for for having and listening to the story I I love talking about it because I you know everything that's happened over the years has just been like a almost like a fairy tale to me, you know, and I don't take any of it for granted and and uh You know, there's there's lots of louis stories and one day when you do do a louis biography You know, we can really get into some more. Yeah, I'm sure it'll be a two-parter kind of episode because there's a lot A lot of people who love the you know, the gentleman who is louis So I'm glad we could incorporate him in this episode. Um, so Anyway, uh, everyone can check out the bonus episode where ron and I are going to take a few minutes and talk and uh Anyway, ron, thank you so much for sharing your story and um, I know people are gonna love this one It's it's been great. So and I do want to say too, uh, the day we're I don't know when this is going to come up But the day we're recording this, uh, charlie watz passed away yesterday today's august 25th. He passed away august 24th so we just want to say um, you know that we love charlie watz and um, just We're sorry to hear about it for the band Everyone another gentleman another gentleman exactly. I was fortunate enough to meet him in 2019 Which will always be one of the most like important memories, uh in my life So thank you to don mccauley who was has been with charlie for a long time as his tech um, so I just wanted to say that so Anyway, uh on that note, thank you ron for being here and I look forward to uh the bonus episode and uh, thanks for being on the show Thank you. Thanks again for having me bar If you like this podcast find me on social media at drum history and please share rate and leave a review And let me know topics that you would like to learn about in the future Until next time keep on learning