 Governor Samuel R. Thomas Benree State has stated that Nigeria is fast becoming a failed state because of the bad policies of the all-progressive Congress APC-led federal government. He lamented that the ruling party has dragged the country 20 years backwards, thereby eroding all the gains earlier recorded by the People's Democratic Party-led federal government. He added that there is every need for the PDP to re-strategize and give alternatives to Nigerians who are eager and calling on the party to reposition itself. Well, joining us to discuss this are political analysts Ladipo Johnson and John Wesley. Thank you very much, gentlemen, for joining us. Good evening. Good evening. Thank you for loving. Great. I'm going to start with you, Mr. Johnson. This sounds more like one of those calls that we have heard from or statements that we've heard from many people. I mean, the list is endless. Some weeks ago, it was Pastor Paula Deferasen of House on the Rock Church. A few days ago was a former running mate of Mr. President Pasatunde Bakare. We've had many people. The PDP, we have had statesmen, all kinds of people talking about the APC-led government. Let's analyze it from his perspective. What do you think he's coming from? Is it because of the hits that his state has been taking in terms of insecurity? Or is he just speaking as a man in the opposition party? Well, I think that a lot of Nigerians are harsh-losing patients with where we are at. And what government has been doing or has been unable to do. Governor Autumn, as you know, has been on the forefront of the insurgency, banditry, burning of villages, and what have you. So I think that, yes, he's slightly more passionate about the entire situation. And there are some indices. When you talk about moving towards a failed state, there are some indices that you look at. And part of those, I think, have showed up in Benway. And so he is pained and has a right, I believe, to speak as he has spoken. But we have not reached the status of being a failed state yet. But there are warning signals that this government must act on and make sure they turn things around. Mr. Wesley, I'd like to call Governor Autumn directly. He said that Benway's state used to be fruitful. That's what he said, that his state used to be very fruitful. And he talked about the fact that it is no longer the way it used to be. He talks about the fact that a lot of insecurity has eroded all of the benefits. I mean, we look at the states like Benway and some other states as the food basket of the nation. But as it is now, it seems to be the food basket of a lot of insecurity and a lot of killings and kidnappings, which we have heard the governor speaking, you know, condemn over and over again. I'm sure that, of course, you live in Nigeria, the cost of living has been really high. And our purchasing power has not increased in any way. Do you think that maybe this is part of the reason why the governor is making these statements? Is it that the insecurity that we're facing in these parts of the country has affected, you know, the agricultural output and, of course, the economy in its entirety? All right, thank you very much. I will speak in affirmation. What the governor has said is just, I think he spoke a little bit down in this situation. As we speak, if I want to speak in clear terms, so many people go to bed hungry. So many people go out on a daily basis with no assurance of getting back to their homes. Many people leave from end to mouth. Now, tell me in a country where the government cannot provide food for its people. Tell me if such is not a failed state. Tell me in a country where people go out and they do not have an assurance of getting back to their homes. Tell me that such a country is not in shambles. Tell me that in a country where you see people die on a daily basis, I mean, with no sense of remorse, with no sense of, you know, it looks normal now, like 80 people died, 100 people died. So it looks normal. It just looked like, okay, yes, okay, die. Well, I mean, people died 10. Okay, it's okay. But in other clients, just one life, one life, you know, will look like 100 people died. So it's not normal in our country that when people die is, you know, a equal. Can you, can you even count the number of condolences, marriages that we have received from this government in the last how many years? It's such a failed state. You see, the truth of the matter is this. A country where the government cannot provide food for its people. These farmers cannot go to the farm. The security operatives, the operators in place, yes, they might be doing so much. Well, it looks like they pour water into the basket. And as a matter of fact, nothing seems to be working. The fact that we live in Lagos to live in some other part where it appears to see everything is fine, you know, may make us feel that yes, we have not approached being a failed state. But for those who live up not, and in other parts, I mean, you will realize as we speak, even in Lagos, in other places, just about few months ago, I narrowly escaped being kidnapped. About a few months ago, brought daylight in Lagos, around motorways, brought daylight. This wasn't in the night, brought daylight. And you tell me it's not a failed state. I mean, it's a failed state already, except there's a resurrection to the failed state. Mr. Johnson, are we not being a bit too harsh and a bit too, you know, putting out too much gloom and doom there when we talk about the fact that Nigeria is a failed state? Now, let's critically look at this. The APC and the PDP. I was talking to, you know, some representatives of the party yesterday, and I truly asked what the difference was between the APC and the PDP. And I'm not in any way trying to condone whatever the government of Buhari has done or hasn't done. But we have seen these politicians crisscross, back and forth, and they're all one and the same. The people who are in the APC today were once in the PDP. Can we really say that this government has failed? Or can we just generally say that our politicians have failed? The people who are against the APC today used to be PDP members. How have they also worked or helped in their own capacity to better the loss of Nigerians? Well, the bottom line is that you're right, politicians have moved back and forth. However, government under the PDP got the country to a certain stage. Government under the APC is still in power, they're still administering, and we can look at the various indices, inflation, insecurity, the devaluation of the Naira, and what have you. So, at the end of the day, the box stops at Mr. President's table, because these past years, he's had four years and I think we're now approaching the second or third year of his second term. So, they have to take the blame for the way things are at the moment. And that is the thing about governance. You don't keep passing the buck, keep passing the blame. And you will remember that this government did that for many years. He was slow in changing his service chiefs. He has been slow in so many things. They are the ones who decided to close the borders, not thinking about Nigerian traders, talking about importation of rice. We've not heard anything about Medicare or health care for the people, yet Mr. President is able to travel to the UK for his own health care. So, there are many, many things that are going wrong and the last thing they should be doing now is passing the buck. And the most important thing here is that when we're talking about all the politicians, none of the senators or the members of the ruling party have come out, I stand to be corrected, have come out to say, oh, I think Mr. President, on this issue, I think we're going in the wrong direction. So, we are to take it that everything is perfect. They should not come out when it comes to elections and say, oh, that was them. This is now. Because no one has stood up and spoken out about the problems the masses are facing. All right, finally, Mr. Wesley, because we're out of time. Just to go to some of the things that Governor Autumn made mention of, he talked about the fact that the PDP in itself has to restrategize. He said also that the president seems to not know the things that are happening. He says, I will continue to say that the president should be aware of the things that are happening. And of course, I think every average Nigerian is asking, does the president not know what we're facing in this country? Is he acting like he doesn't understand what's happening in the country? And he says that the president says that he does not take kickback. And he said, I also want to believe he doesn't take kickbacks. But maybe he's not aware that the people around him are taking bribes and are killing the economy. I'd like to take your thoughts quickly before we wrap up this conversation. All right, I will quickly say this. Most of the things that Governor Autumn mentioned are valid. Now, it is clear that the president at his age, even those of us who have aged ones at home, you see them manifest some characters and then we attribute it to the old age. Is the president older than the Queen of England, who's very active and, you know, up and doing? I mean, they're very competitive right now. Can we really play that eight card here? Really, can we? No, I'm going to spell it out. I'm going to spell it out. Now, you want to compare a system where things work, where everything works around details to an environment where people operate at the highest level of mediocrity. See, there are things that we must mention. There are things that we must state very clearly. The president is of age and actually remembers most of the things that he even reads. I do not want to agree with you, but it's okay. It's your opinion. The truth of the matter is this. When the president sometimes, when he speaks, you should listen to the president when he speaks. There was an interview the president granted the last time he visited Lagos. It was in Lagos. You need to hear what the president was saying. Too many inconsistencies in the things that the president was saying. It's clear that even when the president reads reports about things that are happening, there are some of these things that flips away from the memory of the president. You cannot throw that into the ... Are you insiduating that our president is not fit to rule? I mean, I don't believe that. I'm so sorry. I think that we have a connection problem, but we're almost out of time. I want to thank my guests. Unfortunately, Mr. Wesley is frozen. Thank you very much. Ladiko Johnson and John Wesley for being part of this conversation. Unfortunately, the internet is not very friendly. Thank you for being here. Thank you everybody for being part of this conversation. At this point, you have to say our goodbyes will be back tomorrow talking about more news and political issues on Plus Politics. I am Marianna. Come see you.