 Okay, we can I'll open it very quickly very soon to everybody you're gonna ask anything about globalization or Hong Kong But let me just say one one last thing and that is I find it very interesting sitting here in Africa in the presence of many of my European friends that Europeans when they went to Asia when they went to Africa they Plunder those places and coming from Hong Kong. I should know And they colonized those places and Took natural resources While the Chinese today They are paying for natural resources. They are buying them instead of plundering them I remember I remember 20 some years ago. I'm bumming to new gingrich In in in Davos and he was the first one that told me is that Ronnie pay attention to Africa There's a lot of potential there. So I begin to come to Africa and I cannot help 23 years later ask the question what has American done in Africa is that what Eric called hegemonic globalization or What is China beginning to do today what he called something like connected? globalization such that in at least to begin with on an economic basis Where all the countries that can begin to share the economic benefit of globalization? So Eric if you have anything to add at it now, if not, I open to the floor. We have plenty of time Okay, five seconds, but I what I mean by hegemonic global global is a hegemonic universalism is to have one hegemonic leader That applies the same set of standards and rules on everybody As opposed to what I call network pluralism is to allow different countries to engage globalization on their own terms Thank you Okay, I was in London to the last few days five people told me how that the Hong Kong police was so restrained In the streets compared to Paris, Barcelona, New York, Los Angeles, Chicago London So I encourage all of you. I don't want to debate this issue Just watch the full footage rather than the one that is not snapshot picked by the media Watch the whole thing and then we'll have a discussion like that Okay, there's several people the two gentlemen here in the front the one back there first and then the gentlemen the gentlemen here and then finally our friend from Ethiopia Thank you every merit on first a quick question to Eric Lee Well a statement in a way in the way you described political elections In the West as often tied and complex process indeed, and you're right on that But maybe we prefer tied and difficult elections to no elections at all Second question actually to the whole panel and the moderator indeed don't you believe dear Chinese friends that actually the Attitude presently in Hong Kong would rather draw most of our countries. I'm French in More liking towards the US in the evolution of globalization Globalization could be a multilateral process as was stated previously in the morning Europe could stand in a way between China and the US in the idea that there should not be a US domination or Chinese domination But since we believe that many of our values are presently challenged Maybe we feel more of a community of values with the US and the Western world I just want to say again as indeed Mr. Long knows and his statement was very interesting concerning the basic law that it is guaranteed by an international treaty and The scrutiny of the UN and it is not as indeed you've not stated and that was very honest from you Sir, it is not a purely internal affair. Thank you Eric Well, I mean if you like elections by all means have as many as you want and It's often as you want. Maybe every day referendum is better than elections. Eventually you'll produce some good leaders I'm sure but don't force other people to have them or have them in your way. That's that's my point. That's all Okay The Chinese don't force out their system on others, right? Okay. Thank you. See why On the question Yeah, it's on thank you On the question of the international treaty I presume you're referring to the treaty known as a joint declaration signed in 1985 rectified or rectified in 1985 between China and the United Kingdom in so far as the election is concerned election chief sectors are concerned in the joint declaration just in case a few of our friends in the audience might buy The allegation that China goes back on his commitment to democratization in Hong Kong Set out in the joint declaration. Let me read it read this to you the chief sector of the Hong Kong special administrative region shall be selected by Election or through consultations held locally and be appointed by the central people's government period In other words, if China wanted to Do away with election company election which produced me as a last-term chief sector and replaced it by consultations through consultations held locally and Then upon the person at the end of a constitution process China will not have breached the John declaration My comment to you sir is when you talk about the community of values That's wonderful. I think the West has really brought some very good value to the world That is frankly Common to human nature and you do it one way you enshrine them in code you codify them, which is very good But I asked Angela Merkel one time about six seven years ago in Berlin. I said Madame Chancellor you keep talking about shared value. I Said I come from Hong Kong Which is now part of China as a ethnic Chinese. Am I supposed to share your value? By saying so so many times you draw a line on the on the sand and say I am on this side Are you on my side or are you on the other side? I? Don't know what is the experience of the African friends. They have tried democracy since World War two I wonder how many of them have been very very successful Perhaps there are other ways. Why should we fashion ourselves only after one way of Achieving the common value right so shall we not allow others to do it their way as well Mind you that Europeans and Americans only account for about a billion of the world's people There's another six and a half billion out there that are they supposed to share your value and do it your way It's just a question to be left for the audience to answer yourself. Sir. Let me let me thank you Let me let me quickly. Excuse me. Let me very quickly chip in tongue-in-cheek When I was a young child I had this I idealistic view of ultimate democracy for mankind on this planet and This is let all people In this world you let one leader and one guy a global leader and a global global guy We now have some billion people on this planet 1.4 billion Chinese 1 billion Indians and so on so forth Share values Democracy ultimate democracy one government one leader who that leader would be What value would that be? question mark now That was when see why alone was a young child With a rather simplistic view of life the world now. I know the world is more complex than that Don't hold that view anymore, and I know the realities and the practicalities. Thank you Sir the second general the German the second row Thank you. I'm coming from Israel They say mr. Lang said in the beginning when you spoke about Hong Kong that something which contradict election You said there will be election and after somebody had been elected then the government of China had to Appoint appoint him. It's contradict election what we know in the West, of course I admire the poor possibility and the power of China controls 1.5 billion people. It's unbelievable. I see what happens in most very small countries They said we have a lot of problems and not with 1.5 billion, but still I'm afraid that what happens in Hong Kong today Is not good for China because of two reasons one is the fact that they prove that it is possible to make achievement by protests It could move it could be export to China itself to the mainland Secondly, I'm not sure that this kind of action against the idea of sending The prisoners from Hong Kong to China to be judged is really important for China compared to this Riots that you have in Hong Kong Aren't you afraid about what we call the Maslow leather Which now in China are coming up You know must rather say that the first stage of people is they want to have a Security and then second stage they want to have food and Only when they have security in food They want to teach to study and after they study they want to put their opinion and they want to be involved in politics I said that according when I follow China I see that people are now standing in the fourth stage Which mean the people of China would like in my opinion in the future to see Themself much more with an appointment to bring their opinion to the government Which mean you will in my opinion China will face in the next future a lot of activity of Chinese people which would like That they would like very much to be involved in the political process and elect their own people And maybe you will face in China what you are facing today in Hong Kong. So can you please relate to that? Thank you sure The experiences that we have in Hong Kong Internet-based so-called be water approach To rally as many people as possible to disrupt Normal lives of ordinary people and ordinary businesses big and small in Hong Kong It's not patented the first trial is in Hong Kong Whether it's going to be successful or not and I do not wish this on any country in the world I do not wish this but my guess is they will replicate itself in other countries So Hong Kong Is not an island other countries are not islands either no man is an island if we subcome to this a violent and destructive movements for a Lawful demands on our basic law other countries and other governments would suffer That's one one Pond to the central government of China Beijing has no role at all in the proposed Amendment of the fugitive ordinance was the initiative Initiated by the Hong Kong government nearly all laws except certain national laws such as nationality National emblem national anthem and so on all laws enacted by the Hong Kong government That's part of the high degree of autonomy to enjoy so wasn't initiated by by Beijing Beijing has no role in that Point number two point number three. This is not the first time Hong Kong and next a piece of legislation or amended or enter into a treaty with another jurisdiction to send fugitives back In the proposed now It's been withdrawn formally in the proposed amendment We have put in more safeguards into the proposed amendment They are already 22 Justifications in different parts of the world. I shouldn't name them If I wanted to be discourteous to some of these countries I should so that you know That the record of rule of law In some of these 22 jurisdictions is actually not as good as the mainland of China And I do ask the question If people living in Hong Kong are so scared of facing trial on the mainland of China in Shanghai in Beijing in Shenzhen Why would these cities on the mainland host? millions of foreign business people living there So these are the Including including including Hong Kong. So these are the These are the points that I would I would make but let me just repeat what I said earlier I'm beginning to see signs of People now we're the right or wrong as Chinese people. We don't try to sort of poke our fingers in our people's pies We are seeing The so-called extinction rebellion movement in parts of Europe Copying the Hong Kong protesters so-called be what approach So be careful. I can't let that one go without a quick two quick comments. Okay one you know The situation in Hong Kong happens to be the greatest birthday gift God has given to President Xi Jinping for the 70th anniversary of the People's Republic Let me explain why it's completely unified. It's the opposite. What you are predicting It's completely unified public opinion in a mainland China. It's it's unbelievable. It's showing the Chinese people liberalism's failures and why they shouldn't have it So it's the opposite and second to your second point, you know Elections all that are great and democracy is great when we're all for it, you know, but the fact is Liberal democracy is no longer producing governments that respond to the will of the people Everywhere in the world almost I mean you see that in public opinion poll after poll after poll in nine out of ten liberal democratic countries The elections don't deliver governments that respond to the interests and the will of the people so we got a So maybe it doesn't work at this time And all of you have a problem. There's four hands. He's two gentlemen from Africa We have one gentleman here and then a lady over there Huh? Yeah, I know we're already overrunning so Terry Tell me what to do. Okay, sir, please. I Would like to raise two or three questions While Hong Kong is important but I Would like this panel to focus on the other Important issues also. I represent Africa. I want to know to listen to them questions That will affect us our continent. So if I may ask on the BRI the belt and road initiative I believe it's a Unimportant project and program and the way I see it is There has been three infrastructure Miracles in this 20th century the Swiss canal which connected Asia and Europe the Panama Canal Which connected changes the trade pattern and Euro tunnel which connected UK and Europe There might have been some geological Geopolitical impact of this infrastructure Maybe the British had bigger role benefit on Swiss canal the US on the Panama Canal But ultimately it was an important forced connect So my question here on the infrastructure is as it appears now the BRI primarily focuses across Asia Europe and Even the maritime or silk Connectors some part of Africa How can the BRI be designed in a way that it doesn't exclude Africa and Africa benefits from this Connection the second point We want to see more productive investment to Africa Ethiopia has benefited from Chinese manufacturing investment and of all investment in Ethiopia 67% of companies are investing in Manufacturing we want to see more because we need employment Africa needs to create 20 million jobs Every single year and that's why the G20 countries developed compact with Africa We are not seeing sufficient Relocation of Chinese investment. They are mainly focused in Asia, which I would say a backyard of China So how can the private sector the Chinese government? Give special attention to to this idea the last point There may be differences in political view But we need to work on the common ground of the United Nations principle for African countries, we don't want any Big powers to intervene in internal affairs Non-interference is one of the basic principles of the United Nations And I believe we have always to be reminded of This principle. Thank you sir with that can I ask the gentleman at the back also to ask his question And then we'll answer it together where I'm really in trouble eight minutes over time. There's still two hands over there and more Yes, sir You have survived the question of the law of man and I ask the next question Is that human being The only thing that is human being who is black, green, yellow, white, red or blue or chocolate as you like Is there no common law with all the entire humanity? Here's the question What are the ways of work? Second question on democracy is that the concept of democracy We don't get rid of the foundation of common parameters to all humanity What are the ways of work? because in Africa if We examine the instruments Who have been adopted in terms of human rights in terms of democracy By the African Union and by the regional economic community We find something very strong but when it confronts to the Thank you this gentlemen, I have to and then the lady at the very bat and then we have to call I quit It's we are already in 10 minutes over time. I Want to get out of this country tomorrow? I don't want to be detained I need to go to work. Yes, sir. Thank you, always Africa, the former minister of Algeria. I would like to quickly address a question that seems essential to me on the debate on globalization and the approaches to development. But before that, I would like to make a link between the previous session and that of now. The essential actor of democracy is society. The major actor of the economy is society. What we notice in the current crises, Iraq, Libya, Mali, Sudan, are major territorial fractures. Kurdish, Benghazi, northern Mali, that means that the question of territorial fractures and the question of social fractures is a major constituent element and development and democracy. Regarding the approaches to globalization, is the big question behind the financing and the implementation of infrastructures, the infrastructure development is essential for sustainable development and development of a modernization of territorial societies? However, the approaches so far, you said, have been different. For the people, we estimate that this is not profitable, so we don't finance it and so there is the question of implementation, even though the United States, over the last few years, have completely changed their approach and their legislation on the financing of infrastructures in Africa. And so, when we say to Africans, attention, such a country is in your summer, we forget to say that the countries in question who raise this question have made a commitment in the approach of their development and major issues. Europe is one of the most polluted continents. We have 325% commitment to global scale and many of them, including the former president of the British Bank, say that the endowment threatens Europe. But behind all of this, there is no question of approach. When we see our Chinese friends or our European friends on the big issues, the highway or the road of globalization, for the people, they estimate having to structure the periphery to modernize it, to make it reach a certain level to be able to continue in space. And you said this is the time, you said there is a billion in front of 6 billion. You estimate that the structuring of the periphery, putting it at a level is a major issue. So, in part, the question of the financing of the infrastructure is other than the question of the endowment. So my question, is there no totally divergent approach in this famous debate on globalization, this debate on democratization, and this debate on development or growth? Thank you. Thank you. The last question from the lady at the back there, please. Unfortunately, it's not a lady. I'm sorry, it's my apology. No, no, it's for age. Your hair is beautiful. And I have hair. Thank you, Chairman. I'm Stephen Erlinger from the New York Times. And I was in Hong Kong the night of the actual handover and I tried to follow it. I've been very struck by the defensive tone of all of you mixed with an aggressiveness, which I find striking and common now when I hear Hong Kong Chinese and mainland Chinese speak to Western audiences. Actually, I don't think anybody cares whether China has democratic elections or not. No one's forcing you to do it. What I would like to know is, do you think Xi Jinping announcing himself as Emperor for Life and creating Xi Jinping thought as an equivalent to Mao is a good thing for China or a bad thing? Okay, I'll leave it to Eric and Mr. Leung. Well, Emperor for Life, certainly he didn't pronounce that and that sounds like to me a lot more aggressive and defensive on the part of New York Times than anything that we've ever said. I don't think that deserves a good, you know, a sensible response. Of course, he's not Emperor for Life. He, we had a constitutional amendment that got rid of term limits for the role of the presidency. General Secretary, the role of General Secretary never had term limits, but we have retirement customs, so they are supposed to be followed. So he's not Emperor for Life. And let me come back to our friend from Ethiopia. Of course, Africa is an integral, important part of the BRI vision. The Eurasian mass being united through infrastructure and Africa being linked into the Eurasian mass I think creates tremendous opportunities. Now, China is a new kid on the block. We haven't been at it for very long, but we're going to make plenty of mistakes, okay? Our companies don't know what to do in these new countries. Our companies don't know how to work with local communities, for instance, because in China, you know, we have County Party Secretary who's like a CEO who helps the company in these different countries. The situation is completely different. So we need help. And what we, you know, what Africa could do and I hope it will do is for African countries to produce great and strong leaders, like Mr. Kagami who will be speaking tonight, like Mr. Ahmet perhaps is on the way of becoming. And only with strong leaders can you take advantage of what China has to offer. So that's that. I've forgotten the questions there. Okay, you're right. Let me just very quickly respond to the Baltimore Road questions. If we in Hong Kong or we in the rest of the country, China, could do anything to promote better mutual understanding, not just of investment opportunities in the various countries in Africa, but also what Africa is about, please let us know. We'll be quite happy to oblige. I founded the Belt and Road Hong Kong Center, for example, two years ago. And this center sponsored young school children and the teachers and the Hamas and Hamistresses to go and visit, excuse the term, off the beaten track countries along the Belt and Road. And they all come back with new vision of life. And so these are the next generation of collaborators. Now, if you want to take a short term approach, if there are certain sectors or industries that you're open to Hong Kong or mainland Chinese investments, so you have my name card, let us know. China and Hong Kong included often gives people the impression that we have unlimited ambitions under the Belt and Road Initiative or unlimited appetite under this Initiative. Reality says, ah, of course not. We do have capacity constraints. And one of the constraints that we face at the moment is not so much capital, human resources. And that's why it is important for us to send people to your countries to see what opportunities are. Thank you. There's another question about human rights that I want to address briefly. Of course, there are universal aspirations for all mankind as part of the human condition. But those aspirations don't have to necessarily be liberal. And if you ascribe rights to men, these rights may be in conflict. If you read the UN Declaration of Universal Rights or whatever the document is called, every right in there is in conflict with every other right. So what are our priorities? So to me, equality is a universal aspiration. And equality, and to me, in every country, there shouldn't be in today's modern world with this abundance of material wealth. We shouldn't have people living under absolute poverty line. We just should not. It's not unconscionable. So to me, that's a universal aspiration. But liberalism is not delivering on these universal aspirations. In China's socialist system, I think it's doing a little better job. I mean, we make a lot of mistakes. We have a lot of faults. But we don't have these liberal elections. But we are lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. In fact, we're two years away from eradicating poverty below the absolute poverty line. About 20, 30 million people left. That's a universal aspiration. I'm going to call it to a quid because I have been told to just, I must cut it. I think being over the over time, I have to now commit harakiri go outside. But last sentence is, I think that it will be very important for all of us whether you are from Europe, from Africa, from China to bring America back to become part of the globalized world. I think the best world forward is where one, the US, Europe, China and many other countries should work together rather than having any, especially a major country like the United States moving increasingly toward isolationism. And that to me is my biggest worry. So shall we just leave it at that and we'll be happy to talk offline. Thank you.