 Live from San Francisco, it's theCUBE. Covering Red Hat Summit 2016. Brought to you by Red Hat. Now here are your hosts, Stu Miniman and Brian Graceley. Welcome back, happy to have on the program, return guests, Craig Mozillo's senior vice president of application platforms, business group, Red Hat. Craig, thanks so much for joining us again. Yeah, it's great to be back. All right, so, you know, it got some news in here and it was also talked about in the keynote. This is really the 10th anniversary of Red Hat entering the application development market. You know, what does that mean? How far have we come? Oh, it's huge. You know, if you go back to the whole history of Red Hat and open source, you know, over 20 years now, it's starting really as a hobbyist thing to begin with in the 1990s. And then with, you know, the advent of RHEL in the early 2000, 2002-ish timeframe, making it enterprise ready. And we then took that to the next step, which is not only the infrastructure in creating an alternative, an open source alternative for operating systems, but then looking at how do developers create things and making it enterprise ready. That's what the journey that we started 10 years ago with the acquisition of JBoss. And then now open source is absolutely proven not only at the infrastructure level, but at the application development level, and not just with what we started with, which was the app server, but a full portfolio of services and technologies for any need and use inside of the enterprise. And then now the transition to cloud, private and hybrid cloud environments. Okay, and the announcement, it's the enterprise application platform, or EAP-7, is now generally available. It gives us the highlights. Yeah, so we worked on this for many years. We ran some of the specifications that were at the heart of EE7 many years ago. And so now it's officially released. It supports the EE7 specification, but more importantly, it sets the foundation for being able to create Java-based microservices in cloud environments, a much lighter footprint, and it sets the stage for moving Java forward even from into the future. Yeah, one of the things, you can't talk to a large customer these days where they're not worried about, the term is sort of getting uberized. One of these fast-moving startups taking over, they sort of understand things are becoming more digital. I've got to enable via mobile. I've got to enable physical goods. What does that conversation look like when CIOs come and talk to you and they go, how do I do this faster? What do I need to think about? What does that conversation look like? It's my favorite conversation. I have that conversation all the time. Even with well-established customers we're already pretty deep into. They want to hear our view about where things are heading. And so they are all thinking about digital transformation. And it's not just the web startups, but it's traditional insurance companies, traditional auto manufacturers. Everybody is thinking about how do I incorporate software into my products and services to add more value so I don't get uberized. And so then we start talking about a vision of, well the way, what you create, how you create it, and the platforms that you use to create that technology to be able to be responsive, move fast are all going to change. And so we have to lay out that vision when we talk to those CIOs. And every large company has sort of the advantage and the disadvantage of legacy. To some extent it's a disadvantage. You've got customer data, you've got the market data, but you have the legacy disadvantage. But what is the conversation, if somebody says, hey, do I move everything to these new platforms? Is it only the new stuff? Like, how do you take a portfolio and move it into this new world? How do I think about that? Sometimes you think about it carefully. In all seriousness, I think it's a pretty well established that I think it's going to be a hybrid world. That's why we've bet our strategy on what we call open hybrid cloud. We think there's going to be a world where there are still traditional systems that are physical that perhaps you don't touch. Maybe they're transactional in nature or have some extremely extreme security requirements that they don't want to touch. And then there's going to be absolutely avant-garde new development, extremely lightweight. But you're even in that scenario where you set up an environment that there's consistency between that physical, virtual, private cloud and public cloud environments, you're still going to need to be able to integrate and talk to that legacy system. So having the middleware in place, having the platform infrastructure in place that allows you to do that, gives you some more portability. That's one of the conversations we'd like to have with customers. We saw Target gave a great keynote yesterday. Amadeus has been talked about. We talked to J-Crew yesterday. A bunch of customers who are kind of rediscovering their own application development, right? What advice do you give to companies when they say, hey look, I think I'm going to have to bring that back in-house. I'm going to have to go recruit great engineers. I'm going to have to work in open source communities. How do you help guide them? Because obviously Red Hat has a ton of experience on the open source side. How do you help guide them? It's interesting. I think we had a big conversation yesterday with a number of customers on this very topic. How do we get the best, the question was how do you get to find the best talent, the most innovative talent, and if everybody, if every company is a software company, isn't the competition going to get much more intense for this talent? One of the, certainly all the environmental factors, the cultural factors that people talk about, that Target talks about in terms of trying to hire the best engineers, even out of California, perhaps to move to Minnesota. I think those are all true. We like to give the advice of open source because the majority of innovation right now is happening with open source, open source project, all the cloud technologies are based on open source. The interesting thing is, if customers get involved in those communities, they can find talent in those open source communities. They can find exchange of ideas. One of the ways that we recruit great talent, frankly, is just our involvement in all these communities and all of these developers from all over the world participating, just sharing ideas, using the technology, contributing code. You find some of the best people through that whole open source collaborative environment. It makes for an interesting conversation. Microsoft bought LinkedIn because they thought they had the data for people, but GitHub really knows where the software developers are. Is that maybe a more valuable property in this all software world that we're moving towards? GitHub's a great property, and yes, they are connecting everything to everyone, so we, yeah, for Microsoft, I don't know. I don't want to talk about Microsoft's strategy, but it's certainly a great asset for software developers. Interesting data, yeah, for people marketplace. There's been some stuff going on in the Java community, in terms of people trying to, you talked about it, moving Java to microservices, thinking about is it Java, Java EE, all the different variations. What's going on in the world that people should make sense of all these announcements and new projects that are coming along? Yeah, there's, if you look at any of the statistics from companies like Redmonk, who track the developer use and languages and language use, Java is still the number one used language, probably second after that would be JavaScript and Node.js, and then it works its way down from there into many different dynamic languages, et cetera. So Java is here to stay, and much of the technology being developed is based on Java. I think what is changing is the specifications on how Java is going to be used. We announced on Monday a new concept called the microservices profile. It's a very, very lightweight definition of how you could use Java or enterprise Java in a cloud-based environment in a microservice. And so we partnered with IBM and a number of other vendors. We have a number of other vendors that have not announced themselves yet to start participating. Whether that makes its way into specifications through something like a JCP, or whether it just has enough of its own community just to establish a new way, a new profile, with support of those new community members. It's unclear exactly where it's going, but we're certainly committed to it. We think it's extremely important, and we think companies and customers are looking for some guidance and some leadership here. The flip side of Java in the enterprise is .NET in the enterprise, .NET 1.0 now, available on RHEL, available. How important is that for enterprise customers? We think it's extremely important. If you look at most of the public cloud use, the underlying operating systems are Linux-based, and so now that you're in much of the innovation taking place with new technologies, whether it's things like Adoop and Spark, usually start with a Linux-based as that innovation. So now, if Linux is going to be that important for the future, for public or private clouds, the ability to program in .NET and run that natively in a Linux environment is extremely important. So we're delighted to be working with Microsoft on this. We're really excited. Our developer team who made the announcement on Monday, we have a couple of former Microsoft executives that help with our developer initiatives. They're just extremely excited about the possibilities there. So Craig, over the last 10, 15 years, we've really seen the Linux admin skill sets proliferating around a lot of the data centers. What's interesting, you guys have a separate event for Dev Nation. Talk a little bit about the Linux admin and the developer and how those overlap and how we look at it from a show standpoint too. Yeah, the show certainly some it has been evolving. When, as you mentioned, 10 years ago, even 12 or 13 years ago, it was certainly a Linux admin type of audience. Now it's much more enterprise audience and a much more developer-centric audience. And so you see things like the demo that Burst Sutter just conducted about an hour ago, which integrated both the Ops side and the Dev side. In regards to Dev Nation, we had always had a number of developer quote unquote programs and initiatives at Red Hat. So we had something called JBoss World. We had something called Camel One for the Camel community. And what we decided to do is bring it all together and invite the rest of the world to participate in open source-centric developer topics. And so that spawned the idea of Dev Nation, hold it right before summit, but bring in the developers that wanna get into the weeds and really wanna get their hands dirty. So we hold hackathons, but we're also inviting folks like all of our colleagues now at Microsoft and other companies to participate in Dev Nation. So it's not just a Red Hat thing, but it's really trying to be an open source, developer-centric movement in the marketplace. That's the whole idea around Dev Nation. Okay, I wanna give you the final word. Give us a state of application development. If you look down the road, what should we expect to see over the next six or 12 months? Yeah, I mean, I think if anyone has application developer skills in the marketplace, they should be confident because I think there's a great job market for them for many, many years to come. Everything that we do in life now is gonna have software somehow associated with it. And in terms of app dev, I think you're gonna see a lot more flexibility, a lot more variety, the whole idea of polyglot, the variety of languages that are being used. You're gonna see more trends, certainly microservices and cloud-based architectures, cloud-native development. But you're also gonna see much more from citizen developers. So the idea of no-code or low-code development where people and business people are now starting to change the nature of the applications, change behavior of apps without having to go into code. The reason for it is just the numbers are going to dictate it. You're never gonna find enough software developers to be a digital economy. So it's gonna be important to remain competitive that companies now start applying and using other technologies to help advance the cause. And so I think you'll see a lot more of that happening as well. All right, well Craig Mozilla, really appreciate you giving us the updates. We'll be back with lots more coverage here from Red Hat Summit 2016. You're watching theCUBE. Thank you.