 My son-in-law hasn't been very well, he's double jabbed, but he's had, I had a sore foot all last week actually, I thought I had it, but um, but he hits you. That's sweet Brian. Members, please, could I remind you, lovely members, could I remind you that even if you have been to a committee meeting in the hall recently, please, could you give your card to Rebecca so that she can register it against your microphone? That would be great, thank you. Also, we want to do a practice vote, which when we've got cards registered, I think we'll do, just to check that everything is lined up with the right microphones and that everything's happening as it should, so if you could bring your card to Rebecca, if you haven't already done so, that would be most helpful, thank you. Members, could I ask that we conduct a practice vote, and I'm going to let Rebecca run through that with you. Shall I propose a motion? Members, we're just going to do the practice vote, so I'm just going to press start on that. So in accordance with the instructions that Erin is handing out, if you see the blue icon on your microphone light up, you touch that first, it will then show you the four against an abstain button. Four is green, red is against and yellow is abstain. Can I clarify that when you have registered your vote, the button shows the way that you voted. In other words, if you voted four, it shows your button is green and then the others go gray, and then it reverts to the total. Members, could we just try that again, please? We're just going to try another practice vote, so remember, you need to register by pressing the blue button to indicate that you want to vote. So first of all, press the blue button. That will show up the green, red and yellow buttons, and if you want to vote four, you press the green. If you want to vote against, you press the red, and if you want to abstain, you press yellow. Is everybody being able to register? No, Councillor Bygott. Councillor Bygott. Erin, could you check with Councillor Bygott? He was unable to vote earlier. He's just here. Members, I've been asked to run that one more time, please. So... Can we stop that vote? Let me try again, Rebecca. Everyone, sorry, I'm happy to be able to end the vote for me, just so I know we're having a few. Shall we stop? I don't want to be guessing, I told you. Exactly. So can we stop the last one? Can we stop the last one and run another one? Can I just say to the people who are patiently waiting online to take part, we're just checking that all of the cards for members who are present in the chamber are registered correctly and that they're able to vote. So please bear with us while we just check that technical issue, and I'm sorry that causes a slight delay. Please bear with us. So, members, we'd just like to run one more test vote, please. Could I just ask you to vote when it comes up on your screen? So, blue to register that you're present, and then whichever, green, red, or green for four, red for against, and yellow for abstain. Thank you. Just one, I think that's... Is that okay, Sarah? Yes. Could I just ask any members, if you have the teams meeting up on your laptop, these could you make sure that you are muted and speakers off? So that's the on off button at the top right, top left of these screens anyway. Thank you. Good afternoon, members. Thank you very much. I apologize for the delay. When we started, we're just making sure that the vote could be held properly. So thank you for your patience. Could I also say at the outset, if any of the gentlemen would like to, or indeed any of the ladies would like to take their jacket off, you're most welcome to, as it's quite warm. So, whether you are attending virtually, can I just welcome you to the meeting of South Cambridgeshire District Council on Thursday the 22nd of July at 2pm. Thank you for attending. Whether you're attending virtually or in person, welcome to this meeting of the South Cambridgeshire District Council. This is the first full meeting of the council in the council chamber for approximately 15 months. My name is Councillor Anna Bradnam and I am the Chair of South Cambridgeshire District Council. My Vice-Chair is Councillor Peter Fain. Peter Fain. May I now make some housekeeping arrangements, including important safety information for those present in person. So, if you're attending the meeting in person, please ensure that you wear a face covering at all times where possible. And I'm afraid I'm the only exception to that at the moment. To explain, for the benefit of those members who have attended committee meetings and who will not have been asked to keep their masks on throughout the meeting, even whilst seated, the reason is that unlike for those committee meetings, there are a greater number of people present. Thus, we are closer together and that's why we'd like you to continue to wear your masks if you would. Please also keep to the one-way system for entering and exiting the chamber. Please use the hand sanitizer provided and the sanitizing wipes before and after sitting at your tables. Whether present in the chamber or virtually present, please make sure that you do not switch your microphone on unless you've been invited to speak. Those who are participating virtually should, if possible, use a microphone and should speak slowly and clearly. Please ensure that you've switched off or silenced any other devices you may have so that they don't interrupt our proceedings. Only those members present in the chamber will be able to move and second motions and vote. Members present virtually, however, may speak in the debate. Please, would members who are attending virtually indicate a wish to speak by use of chat in the teams meeting? Those present in the council chamber should indicate their wish to speak by raising their hand. I'll ask my vice chair to keep a note of the order of speakers both virtually and in the room and I'm mindful that we want to include the people who are taking part virtually just as much as the people who are in the room. When we move to a vote on any item and there is not clear affirmation, I will state that a recorded vote is to be taken. Members in the chamber will then vote electronically, selecting four against or abstain as we've just demonstrated and the result will be displayed. Those present including any members of the public observing or any public speakers are asked to note that this meeting is being filmed and live streamed. By your presence, you're deemed to have consented to be filmed and the use of those images and sound recordings for a webcast. May I remind members that when speaking they should not disclose any personal information of any individual as this might infringe the rights of that individual and breach the data protection act. Finally, may I remind members that you are required to address the meeting through the chair please. Officers have confirmed that this meeting is court and we can proceed. One further thing, as our microphones are on tables and standing to speak means projecting the voice more which is less safe for us. In the interest of both safety and practicality, I propose that standing order 21.2 standing to speak be suspended for the duration of the meeting. Do I think Councillor Fayne is happy to second that? Thank you, Councillor Fayne. Members, does anyone wish to vote against that motion? That's great. Thank you. I'm sure nobody online would mind. Thank you. So the council therefore agrees by this motion by affirmation. Thank you very much. First item on the agenda on our... Yes, sorry, Madam Chairman, but I would prefer not to wear a mask this afternoon. I've had to go on a much stronger inhaler because I've been very unwell with my asthma for the last three weeks. I will promise not to kiss Richard too often and I'll touch him. Try not to anyway and just wonder if that is okay with you. And this, Councillor Williams... Councillor Roberts, that's... If Councillor Williams is happy with that, I'm happy with that, especially not getting you wear. Thank you very much and I do understand your reasons, Councillor Roberts. So moving on, item one on our page little one, apologies. Are there any apologies for abs... Sorry, can I also point out that I'm going to endeavour to keep this meeting given the proximity that we're all sitting in. I'm going to try and keep this meeting as short as possible. So are there any apologies for absence, please? I think Patrick Adams will be advising us about the apologies for absence. Apologies, Chair. Yes, apologies for not telling you the apologies quicker. We have apologies from Councillor Grendel Chamberlain, Sarah Chung-Johnson, Gavin Clayton, Joes Hales, Bill Hanley, Steve Hunt, Dawn Percival and Nick Samble. Thank you very much. Thank you very much indeed. Do you have all those? I had... Did you have Gavin Clayton? Yes, did I not read out Gavin Clayton if I didn't apologise? I can go through the names again if you'd like. Do any other members here in the hall have any other apologies for absence? I can't see any. Okay, thank you. So declarations of interest, members, do any members have any interest to declare in relation to any item of business on this agenda? If an interest subsequently becomes apparent later on in the meeting, please would you raise it at that point? But do any have any declarations now? No. Register of interests then. Item three, please. May I remind members that they need to keep their register of interests up to date and that they should inform democratic services of any changes? So to the minutes, members... Oh, I have a note. Oh, okay, thank you. We're going to take each set of minutes in turn. Members are asked to approve the accuracy of the minutes of the previous meetings of council held on the 15th of April, the 4th of May, and the 20th of May. And I'm going to take each set in turn. So taking the first minutes, first set of minutes for the meeting held on the 15th of April. Thank you. I have a number of items. So I can see Councillor Howell. We've had Councillor Ruth Bettson on chat and Councillor Batticharia. So I will take Councillor Howell first. Chairman, I need to say that Councillor Ruth Bettson needs to speak on the minutes. That's all it has. That's fine. Thank you. Councillor Batticharia, which meeting was that on the 15th of April? So we understand that Councillor Batticharia attended on the 15th of April, but her name does not appear as an attending. Could we check that? Thank you. Is that all right, Patrick? Thank you, Chair. Yes, I've made a note of that. Thank you very much. And Councillor Bettson. Thank you, Chairman. My comment is as Councillor Batticharia, I was present on the, on Thursday for the 15th of April. Thank you. Thank you very much, Councillor Bettson. So can I clarify then what you were saying? It was that it was you who were not present, not marked as present on the 15th of April, not Councillor Batticharia? No, both of us were present. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you. So both were marked as not present and they were present on the 15th of April. With that amendment, can I ask that we approve those minutes? We have, I believe we have a proposer for the minutes, Councillor Gough and a seconder, Councillor Henry Batchelor. Thank you very much. Does anybody wish to abstain or object? Good. Okay, so with that approval, as amended, we can say that they're a correct record by affirmation. Thank you. Taking the next set of minutes for the meeting held on the 4th of May. Members, are we able to approve the minutes by affirmation? Are they agreed? Lovely. Thank you very much. Are there any, is there anybody online who has any concerns? No, good. Okay, so the chair, the council therefore agrees the approval of the minutes as they are as a correct record by affirmation. Thank you very much. And finally, taking the minutes of the meeting held on the 20th of May. Members, are we able to approve these minutes by affirmation? I can see that Councillor Heather Williams would like to speak. Thank you Chairman. It's just that on my personal explanation, it's referred to in association with the MP, but it wasn't the mayor. We could take the page number please. I'm trying to find it Chairman, it's already online. It's page 38. So it should be that the reference made to the mayor, former mayor, not MP. This is four bullet points, the four paragraphs up from the bottom of item 26. Is that right? Yep. So it currently says Councillor Heather Williams said as a point of information that the reference made to the MP suggested he had supported a station north of Campbell and etc. But you're saying it should have been the mayor. Yes. Thank you very much. Patrick, do you have that record of that amendment? Yes, Chair. I've got a record of that and I'll make that amendment to sit after the meeting. Thank you very much. That's great. Thank you Councillor Williams. So with that amendment, are members happy that we record that as a correct record as amended by affirmation? Lovely. Thank you very much indeed. Right. So we come to item five announcements. I'll invite announcements from the leader who I believe is taking part online, the executive and the head of paid service. And I will commence with my own announcement, which is that I would like to announce that my charity, my chair's charity for this year, I've been very concerned about the impact of the pandemic on young people, both in school and those who are starting to consider work. And I would like to support them as much as we as a council can by announcing that my chair's charity will be Centre 33. This is a charity that supports young people in Cambridgeshire and Peterborough and has offices in Cambridge from which it services South Cams. And they support young people with a wide range of issues. They specialise in enabling young people to help themselves through guidance and advice and talking through and working alongside them. They give practical help and emotional support. They give very practical advice and guidance and signposting about housing. They will pick up needs to do with support for food. They cover issues to do with sexual health and wellbeing and mental health. And they also offer counselling in schools. And so I think they offer a wide range of support, which is always extremely practical. And I hope you as members can support me in that choice of charity. Thank you. So that is Centre 33. Chief Executive, do you have any announcements? No, thank you, Jen. Thank you. And Leader, did you have any announcements? No, I don't have any announcements, but I'd just like to commend your choice of charity. Centre 33 do incredible work and I think it's an excellent one to select. Thank you. Thank you very much, Leader. So we move on to item six, questions from the public. Okay, thank you. Sorry, so we have an update. As you appreciate from our agenda, we originally had a question from Mr Daniel Fulton. Unfortunately, he's unable to join us and either in present or remotely. So I propose to read his question and allow the lead member to respond. So Mr Fulton's question was, in order to meet the government's housing targets, this council is set to approve 11,000 new dwellings at Water Beach Newtown, 10,000 dwellings at North Stowe and 3,500 dwellings at Born Airfield. The Chalk Aquifer that feeds the River Can and its tributaries is already overabstracted and this council's plan is to continue to abstract all water from that aquifer to serve these additional 24,500 dwellings. The council's role as local planning authority is to ensure that these developments are acceptable in planning terms. How is allowing the development of 24,500 dwellings with no sustainable water supply consistent with this council's promise to be quotes green to the core? And I believe the lead cabinet member for planning will respond. Thank you, Councillor Hawkins. Thank you, Chair. If it's okay with you and I take this off whilst I'm speaking. Yes, please do. The developments at Water Beach, North Stowe and Born formed a central part of the 2018 local plan. The local plan was subject to rigorous scrutiny which included an extended examination process from 2014 when it was submitted to the planning inspectorate to 2018 when it was found sound following modifications. The planning authority consulted the environment agency throughout the local plan process and also agreed a statement of common ground supporting the climate change and water conservation policies in that plan. The environment agency did not object to the allocation of the new settlements outlined in the plan. Subsequent to the adoption of the local plan, this council consulted the environment agency on the supplementary planning guidance developed for both Water Beach and Born that were adopted in 2019. They did not object to the SBDs. We consult with the environment agency as part of the planning application processes all three settlements mentioned. The environment agency are the statutory regulatory authority responsible for managing the quality of the water environment and issuing permits for allowing water abstraction in this area. They recognise that further sources of new supply will be required to accommodate growth across Cambridgeshire. North Stowe is included within the water resources management plan for the area and so far they have not objected to the current applications. Nor suggested that plan development across the district should stop. I should make it clear that the proposals for North Stowe, Born and Water Beach will not result in all 24,000 homes being built immediately. The current housing trajectory forecasts about 6,135 new homes being built across all three sites by 2031. As part of the process of creating the new local plan, the council commissioned evidence on the issue of water supply and have raised the evidence with the agencies including Water Resources East, Environment Agency, Cambridge Water and the MHCLG Oxcam team. We have highlighted to these agencies the conclusions of that evidence requiring a reduced dependency on the aquifer to supply Greater Cambridge's water need in the future. The council has been advised that solutions to water supply are possible and expect to continue to press those agencies to bring forward early solutions to resolve the issue. Thank you. Thank you very much Councilor Dr Hawkins. Moving on to petitions, item seven we have no petitions so we will move on to item eight. This is the report from the Civic Affairs Committee on the 10th of June, the Baber Hammond-Sorston Community Governance Review which is on pages 41 to 56 of our agendas. May I call upon the head of transformation to present the report on the recommendation of the Civic Affairs Committee, I stated in the papers and we have the head of transformation on our screens. Thank you. Thank you very much Chair, good afternoon members. The report before you gives all of the details of this community governance review so I should just highlight some of the salient points for you. The review was triggered because new residential developments that span the current boundary of Sorston and Baber Hammond are likely to make that current boundary impractical going forward. Both parish councils proactively recognised the likely impact of these developments and reached a memorandum of understanding on how future section 106 monies would be allocated. Sorston Parish Council also made an application to this council for a community governance review to consider a boundary change between the two parishes proposing a new line that was acceptable to both. An initial consultation was therefore undertaken on these proposals and also asked if there were any alternative suggestions for a new boundary. 75s residents responded to the initial consultation and of these 64 I agreed that the existing boundaries should be changed and 11 suggested that it should not. Three alternative boundary changes were proposed but two were broadly similar to that proposed by Sorston Parish Council and the one that wasn't was not supported by current guidance on boundary setting. Stage two consultation therefore only considered the boundary change proposed by Sorston Parish Council. Here 48 residents responded to the consultation. 41 agreed with the proposed boundary change and 7 did not. That's an 85 percent agreeing. The approach to both stages of the consultation had been agreed by Civic Affairs Committee. Following the results of the second consultation the recommendations being put before you today were drafted by officers and then adopted by Civic Affairs Committee. We think they represent a sensible and practical way forward. The recommendations are that a new parish boundary between Sorston and Bebraham be adopted and that's as proposed in Appendix A of the report before you and was the one proposed by Sorston Parish Council and B a formal request be made to the local government boundary commission for England to realign the district council ward boundaries between Duxford and Sorston wards to ensure that they remain aligned with the new parish council boundaries. Thank you very much. Thank you very much Mr. memory is our head of transformation and as chair of Civic Affairs having only seen this through at the very later stages I'd like to thank the officers for the work they have done on this and I propose this report. May I call for a seconder thank you councillor Milne's who is the local member for Sorston. Thank you. So would anybody like to ask any questions? I think would you like to reserve your right to speak or would you like to speak? I would like to speak unless anybody else wants to go ahead. So I'd just like to recommend this proposal to the council as a local member along with the councillor Beldafield. We're very much in support of this. Sorry did you want to interrupt? No I was just registering to speak it was loud. It's loud. Thank you. So it was just councillor Heather Williams was registering her wish to speak at a later point. Do you carry on councillor Milne? Sorry about the confusion. Oh yes I was speaking in support of this and I wanted to thank the officers involved Jay Clark and his team and Louise Lorde and then Andy Francis who was dealing with the wider issues that have just been mentioned. It does indeed represent an anomalous situation with boundary lines going over new housing estates and it's a very straightforward remedy for that anomalous situation. Thank you. Very much councillor Milne. Councillor Heather Williams. Thank you chairman if that's permissible by councillor Milne. It's permissible by me. I was only going to say that just recognise the work of the officers in this and serving members of civic affairs past and present. Obviously Douglas Delacy did an awful lot of work on this while we were on civic affairs together and I think it's one of the times when we've all been in agreement. Not always found chairman but very happy when it is so fully supportive. Thank you. Does anybody else wish to make any comments about this? I can't see any. Thank you. So are you happy then members to take this decision by affirmation and the recommendations were as Jeff member read out? Agreed. That's great. Thank you. Are there any objections and any abstentions? None. Thank you. The council therefore agrees the motion by affirmation. Thank you. Moving on to item nine. This is the temperature and Peterborough combined authority. We're looking at pages 57 to 82 on our agenda. This item is for update and I invite the leader to update the council on this report from the temperature and Peterborough combined authority. Thank you leader. Thank you very much indeed chair. So from Sunny Devon, my family are all on the beach. I'm here just to give you a very quick update. Councillor Wayne Fitzgerald has been given the position of statutory deputy mayor. There's been some debate about a non statutory deputy role as well which is as yet not agreed. At the last board meeting, some of us were not very happy about the response from the combined authority to the east west rail consultation. And as a result of that, they have very, very much strength of the response. So it aligns far better with both this council's response and also the county council's response. You'll see in the papers that there is obviously a commitment to bus based solutions and work is ongoing. I think at some speed on a bus service improvement plan. And that will include franchising. There's been some chit chat that franchising was off the table, but I've had confirmation from officers that it's still very much on the table. We've had a letter recently saying that the combined Cambridge and Peterborough combined authority has passed its five year gateway review, which means that a further £100 million pounds worth of funding will be made available over the next five years. And that comes in in £20 million tranches. There are new co-opted members on the board, a new police and crime commissioner, new representative from the Cambridge and Peterborough fire authority and a representative from the Cambridge and Peterborough clinical commissioning group. The other big bit of news is that there is a new chief executive officer being employed. Eileen Milner, who's actually a resident of South Cambridge, which is nice. And she will be starting in the autumn. So she's a person of considerable repute if you like to Google her. And then the last bit for me is that I'm very pleased that the combined authority board agreed, albeit not unanimously, to accept all of the recommendations from the Climate Change Commission and have committed £50,000 for the development of a set of final recommendations from this group of eminent people. Thank you very much. Happy to take any questions. Thank you, leader. Does anybody have any questions for the leader? I can't see any. Does anybody else wish to speak? Councilor Wright, do you go ahead? Thank you. A quick chance to make that clear. It's a little bit muffled on the side. And did she say the new chief executive was a lady of ill repute? Some repute. You are very naughty, Councilor Wright, of some repute. Certainly that's what I heard in the chamber. Thank you, leader. Thank you. So members, we've had our opportunity for questions and representations. Will our representatives on the combined authority wish to speak? Councillor Van der Ier. Yes, thank you very much indeed. Yes, I've recently become one of the councillors. Could you take your mask off for this purpose? Thank you. Yes, I have recently become one of this council's representatives on the combined authorities overview and scrutiny committee along with Councillor Ripith. I was very pleased to discover that one of the very first thing we had to do was consider the recommendations from a review of scrutiny by the Centre for Scrutiny and Governance. And the main suggestion largely echoes what is happening at our own scrutiny committee following a similar review that is moving away from examining the agenda papers of the board immediately before the board takes place and conducting more focused and in-depth scrutiny as early as possible in the process of formation of policies, which I think will be extremely beneficial. I would like to thank our previous representatives, councillors Chamberlain and councillor Paine, for their serving on the scrutiny committee before us and in particular for helping to instigate this review. Thank you very much, Councillor Van der Ier. Moving on to item 10, we've got the Greater Cambridge Partnership Executive Board, whose papers are on pages 83 to 86. Again, this is an update and I invite the Deputy Leader to update the council on this report. Councillor Gough. Thank you, Chair. This refers to the last round of... Councillor Gough, could you move your microphone slightly closer to you? Is that better? That is better. So this refers to the last round of board and joint assembly meetings, which a number of members were actually engaged in the assembly. These were important round of decisions in so far as the four key transportation schemes were progressed, each of them to the next stage as detailed in the papers. Just a couple of things I would just draw out for members on the individual items. On the Water Beach scheme, the Board agreed to focus on the western and central options and not to pursue the eastern option as a result of input from the public consultation. On the Camborn to Cambridge scheme, where we removed the independent audit, the independent auditor concluded that there was no reason to delay initiating moving to the environmental audit stage. However, the independent auditor did highlight several areas where further work was required to address gaps in the scheme, including interaction with East West Rail the national bus strategy and the onward travel issues in Cambridge as captured under what is known as the city access. This was taken on board by the board and will be a key item on the September agenda, that's the item relating to the city access and indeed on the joint assembly. The CSEC scheme passed a further milestone whereby the Board approved the preparation of the Transport and Works Act order to seek to secure planning consents for the scheme. In the process of that, the Board carefully reviewed alternative proposals that had been advanced and concluded that the preferred scheme met both the strategic objectives as contained in the local transport plan and was at an appropriate stage to progress. It is also noteworthy for this council that the meeting was joined and we welcome Mayor Nick Johnson to the meeting, he joined the first part of the meeting and he clearly signalled his desire to work with the GCP which of course the last mayor did as well and we'll see what happens with Mr Mayor Johnson but it was a very good intervention from him and one thing particularly is worth noting was that while he made clear that the decisions on the routing of any scheme was a matter for the GCP board he clearly endorsed the concept of busways as a strategic solution to the transportation issues in the Greater Cambridge partnership so that was a most welcome statement from him. Thank you Chair. I'm happy to take any questions. Thank you. I have a question for you Councillor Gough or perhaps just an observation and that is I note that the central route that the Executive Board is taking forward on the Water Beach to Cambridge route is not the same as the central route that was consulted upon as part of the major public consultation. It differs in a significant manner and that has caused considerable upset and concern for the residents of Land Beach and I would just like to make that point that it has caused considerable concern for residents who feel they may be impacted by it. Okay well this is that you know goes towards the next stage so we will take that on board and I'll pass that comment on. Thank you. Councillor Williams, Councillor Heather Williams to go ahead. Thank you Chair and through myself as an Assembly member just on the point that you mentioned I think it's important to note that it wasn't yelling the support from the Assembly in relation to that. I personally seek to have a re-consultation on the changes that were made and that there wasn't a majority for it and I'd also say that it was referred to Chairman that this is a report from the Board and the Assembly but actually there's only feedback from the Assembly page 84-8 and if we want this to be a joint Assembly Board report in future then it may be helpful to put the minutes of the Assembly meeting in it as well as the minutes of the Board meeting and because on some issues such as C-SET for example there has not been uniformity from the members of this council. Thank you Chairman. Thank you. My observation is that it's reported as a report of the Executive Board. Yes Chairman but the lead cabinet member said it's a report from the Board and Assembly that may have been a mistake but if it is I think there needs to be a little more on the Assembly. May I just clarify that was a slip of the tongue I was just trying to make reference to the work of the Assembly in particular the members who are involved in this Assembly in the joint Assembly is input to the Board sorry if I construed it as a report from the Joint District. So for clarity this is a report from the Board. Thank you. Were there any other questions for Councillor Gough? No thank you. So the next item is item 11 which is the an update on the Oxford Cambridge Arc our report is item 11 on page 87 to 88 and I invite the leader to update the council on this report please. Thank you very much Chair as I sit a bit nearer so you hopefully you can hear me. So things are beginning to happen in relation to the Oxford Cambridge Arc. We've had sort of three years of talking about things but now we are getting formal announcements from government. So this week has seen the launch of a 12-week consultation on an Arc wide spatial framework. So that means so that's a plan that will take us up to 2050. The Arc itself consists of a vast area stretching obviously obviously from Oxford to Cambridge, two counties Oxford and Cambridge, eight unitaries, 10 districts and one combined authority. So the narrative that's coming out of government is that the plan aims to enhance the infrastructure across the Arc, enhance the environment and also identify the scope for new developments. Now related to that yesterday was the announcement of the establishment of an expert panel which will be chaired by Emma Cariadja and this will be concentrating initially on what the scope is for new developments on our side near the Bedfordshire to Cambridgeshire end of the Arc. So I believe there are other people already in line to take part in that expert panel but they haven't been able to move it forward quickly enough to actually go public on what the names were. So what we're also expecting in the next few days is an announcement about an Arc growth body. Now we are told that this Arc growth body will unlock the full potential of the Arc and will improve the social, economic and environmental outcomes of the Arc. These are the government's words. It will help to formulate the long-term vision for the Arc as a whole and this is about sustainability and prosperity of communities, supporting the terrible word, the internationalisation of the Arc, support innovation and again improve environmental outcomes. I suppose it is a sort of equivalent to the Northern Powerhouse and the Midlands engine and we're told that it will be working along with the four growth boards currently in existence along the Arc and again leading on the economic strategy on the delivery of net zero, driving private and international investment and delivering on the Arc priorities. So from my point of view what I am pleased about in this 12-week consultation is that the environment really is front and centre. So we fought as a leaders group very, very hard to get government to appreciate that we had to be able to say to people there's something in it for the people already living in the Arc and the opportunity is about the enhancement of the environment, about doubling nature, picking up on our own priorities. But this is a government project, it's a government scheme and even though they say they want to work very closely with all the local administrations within the Arc and with other stakeholders in our residents it's vital that we hold them to account. So I would encourage all of you to participate in the consultation and to encourage your parish council to do likewise because this is really setting the direction for our area for the next 30 years. So there's information appearing online now, you know we still don't have a Lotsford Cambridge Arc website because government haven't been ready to deliver that. And the only other thing I wanted to say is that the lead minister, Chris Pinscher, who leads at MHCLG has now publicly said that the Arc is not about a million new homes, it's actually about economic growth. So happy to answer any questions that I can and Liz Watts participates in the executive boards there as well so she can probably fill in any gaps that I can't. Thank you. Thank you very much, Leader. We have questions in the room, certainly first from Councillor Deborah Roberts. No, it's not really a question to the Leader and I appreciate that she's basically read out what is their vision and it's not necessarily Bridget's vision, I hope, I hope to God it's not because quite honestly it's time we started standing up to this. It may be a government idea but the pretence is extraordinary. The pretence and the thought that we are going along with believing it that this is all about improving quality of life for our residents and greening up the world and being terribly lovely and woke etc is just ridiculous. This is an idea conceived and now being festered in hell. It will cover South Cambridge. That's what they are emphasizing, that it's a tremendous opportunity for growth. God's sake, we don't need that much more growth. What we are having to take on board already is destroying the quality of life for South Cambridge residents. The villages are practically joining up now. There's hardly a hair's breadth between villages and the thought that some unnecessary joining up of Oxford and Cambridge is anything genuine. It's about development. It's about all these firms who want to step in and continue growing and growing here. This is not what we should be doing in this country. The South is well overloaded already. There's no need for this extra growth to maintain the viability of this area. This area is viable as it is. It does not need all this. It should be and the government do need. I'm really disappointed as a Northerner that having heard Boris say that he was going to sort out and get improvements for the North and make them as wealthy as the South, that they're still coming along with this sort of shenanigans, jiggering, it's absolutely ridiculous. It's time that we as a council stood up to this. You do not have to go along with government, whoever they are. I support some of the things this government do. I very much against some of the things this government do, but this one, we should as a council be standing against it. It's an absolute atrocious nonsense and really we should stand up and be counted. It's time we did before everything is lost. Thank you, Councillor Roberts. We have Councillor Richard Williams who wishes to speak. Thank you, Chair. Just to ask the leader, you mentioned the advisory panel focusing on the Cambridge Bedford area. Could I ask what conversations have been had about local input into that panel and what the leader's done to try and ensure that the local voices heard as part of that panel are not nearly from the outside shouting at it? Thank you. Do you want me to respond to the new speakers now? Yes, please. Thank you. If I just say Councillor Roberts, first of all. I absolutely appreciate what you say, Councillor Roberts, and when you say we will stand up to this, the problem has been that we haven't known what this is in order to stand up to it. So we could have done what Buckinghamshire Council did and that's just opt out, but the problem is you can't physically opt out of a geographic area and all that's happened with Buckinghamshire is that they've lost their voice at the table. So we cannot define what the arc is at the moment in order to know what battles we need to be fighting. For me to defend a government scheme here, but they are making the right noises about listening to us and engaging with us and this being shaped by a bottom up approach. So we need to get on board with this 12 week consultation and then if what we and our residents and our local businesses are saying does not translate into what this plan is, then we will be standing up to this and fighting it and objecting to it because if government are listening to us and if we are saying actually we don't want here, we also have to say what we do want. It's not good enough just to say we don't want something. There are opportunities in the arc, there's opportunities for a significant increase in strategic green infrastructure for instance and we need to be pushing that sort of stuff. So on housing as I say the minister has said there is not going to be any housing over and above what is in our current or in our in our local plans at the time. You know I have no reason as we stand at the moment not to not to believe that because that's what's been said but we have to hold them hold them to account. So but it's also there is also potential here for levelling up. So I was this morning in a meeting of the local government association where we're trying to sort of understand what's actually meant by levelling up and we know that across you know within Cambridge there are some serious inequalities. There are people who you know living elsewhere in the county who don't live as long as we live in South Cambridge, don't get the same access to health care, don't get the same educational opportunities. You know this isn't this I hope presents an opportunity for us to address some of the inequalities in our own backyard as well as some of the inequalities across the wider region but as I say you know if this looks like a load of rubbish at the end then yes we will be standing up and objecting to it and shouting loudly. Now in relation to a Councillor Williams question about the advisory panel, well Councillor Williams 10 days ago I hadn't heard about an advisory panel this was news to me. Say 10 days ago I heard that there was going to be one then a few days later I heard that there was going to be no announcement on it until after recess and then low behold this week yesterday I think suddenly there's an announcement about it. So you know I've had no engagement I'm not aware that any other council leader has actually had any any engagement with government over this advisory panel it was just just announced and I don't know if our chief executive can add anything to that. Thank you and through you chair we have had an early advance of the advisory panel probably about four or five days ago from MHCLG and they have indicated that they would like us you know the lead of the administration to have early conversations with Emma and to be involved in the work of the advisory panel so that's that's the only information that I have at the moment and that's from a civil servant at MHCLG. Thank you very much Chief Executive. I believe we have a question from Councillor Heather Williams. Thank you chairman and as the leader will be aware this standing item on our full council came from the group leaders meeting where I raised the ops come up and I have to say chairman that I'm I'm disappointed in the report which there are less paragraphs in this than the word pages for the combined authority report most of it is about the meetings and just says what meetings have been had there's nothing in here chairman but we actually know what the leader is saying or indeed what therefore this council is saying we don't know what this council or the leader is wanting from the arc so when it's when she says or the leader says doesn't say what we are saying and want you know sort the sort of stuff like strategic infrastructure I'm not getting anything material to know what it is that is being had and has been spoken about over the last three years I'd also say that there's some mix mixture in that at a previous meeting we were told anything to do you know it's we don't have that sort of influence it's a government project yet it's scrutiny on Tuesday we heard that we've got significant influence in this that and the other so I'm struggling to know which is it do we not have any influence in which case why are we not or are we not saying anything or is the leader saying things but just not informing the council and I would therefore raise 5.2 paragraph subsection D chairman of the constitution which is ensure the council is a forum of debate where members who do not serve on the cabinet may hold the cabinet to account chairman how can we do that if we don't know what the leader is saying thank you councillor williams leader would you like to respond well I'm just trying to think how how to respond because as I say this is you know these are non statutory meetings of well I mean there's a plenary meeting tomorrow which is all the leaders across the arc and these are led by you know by civil servants really and we are they are they are debate meetings I don't think you've got enough time for me to kind of reiterate it you know the whole of these debates this is these are negotiations between council leaders and actually you know they are they're obviously cross-party negotiations and actually they are very you know everybody's kind of in the same place about wanting what's best for their community so you know there's no there's no big secrets here we've been trying to flesh out what government wants and find you know and and assure ourselves that as council leaders we have we have influence assure ourselves that our residents voices will be heard and so this has been a work in progress to get us to the point we're at now at which the government has launched its consultation which has been very very much shaped by all these meetings over the last three years you know if those meetings hadn't taken place this would be a very very different sort of consultation it'd be very it would be government telling you what you're getting quite honestly but the reason it is as it is with the environment featuring very very large is because the council leaders have been telling the civil servants and telling the ministers that this is what matters to our residents so you know these these aren't decision-making meetings these are debating meetings where stuff is influenced to make sure that when it gets the point at which we can start writing a formal a formal response as a whole but actually you know we there is something in it that we can be we can be positive about thank you leader uh councillor williams to councillor heather williams to come back thank you chairman i mean again we just get the complete opposite government's going to tell us what we are getting all but the leaders have had lots of influence and that's why we're getting it is it one is it the other you know are we pushing for more growth less growth more housing less housing what projects and and chairman the part of the constitution i read is actually responsibilities of the chairman so if i may request that you find something that we can hold the leader to account on or ensure that the leader does put something substantial more than just her diary events for a few months thank you chairman thank you councillor williams did you want to come back on that leader no there was no question there okay thank you councillor i got thank you chairman later on in this meeting we're going to be having a debate about being open and transparent does the leader believe that the structure of the oxford cambridge share arc it's oxford cambridge arc is open and transparent uh well i'll just remind you that it is a government project and um i don't you know i think the government could actually be being far more honest about what their long-term ambition is well no let me rephrase that you know we have to trust government that what they have said what they are saying in this consultation is what they really mean um we know we have to trust that chris pincher the minister responsible is speaking the truth when he says this isn't about a million houses we have to trust them that they are when they are saying that the environment is the most important thing and this is about you know making sure there are more more jobs more high-value jobs for our young people so you know the responsibility for openness and transparency on the oxford cambridge arc is quite firmly at government's door thank you leader and councillor right thank you chairman and just going back to this point leader um what we're trying you keep saying the government this and the government that now we've had three years of talking about this what we want to know is what's your vision what's the council's vision for south cams out of the east out of the oxford cambridge arc no it's very simple what are you been pushing for from south cams as our vision what we want out of this scheme very simple question okay so so simple apologies chair through you uh so so simple answer is that as the lead member on the environment i personally have been pushing for the environment to be front and center in in the arc and if the consultation as published yesterday is to be believed that has been achieved as part of that i and other leaders um insisted that pressure was put on east west rail for east west rail to be electrified other than that you know the i the the response the vision that will become south cambridge's vision will come out of the consultation so we will you know we will be encouraging um our residents are you know the stakeholders within south cambridge to tell us what their vision is what they want out of this because our job is to interpret what our residents our villages our local businesses want so that we can push for what is best in south cambridge it's not about me dictating what i think is best for south cambridge you know we have to start off in listening mode as government have to start off in listening mode so that this this vision um you know which will hopefully emerge in the next few months is something that we can all get behind because if it isn't then we will be against it thank you leader i believe councillor right we'd like to come back thank you lead thank you chairman it's i'm not sure you've really got what we're asking you here and this is you know this scheme is about growth it's not about the environment it's a small fraction of it you know right yeah it this scheme is about growth and we want to know what is your vision on growth and this scheme in south cambridge you know this is that you know you can talk about the environment which is a fraction of the of the scheme and you know for goodness sake it's a diesel railway that's being proposed you know and you know if you're going to major on that you're going to have trouble selling that as your environmental contribution what the scheme is about growth along the corridor and into south cambs when we started talking about this the last administration the great attraction to us was that people from bedford and milton keys could get to their jobs in cambridge in half an hour and it would protect us from housing developments in south cambs a simple direct route from those big cities in the middle and the english heartlands to open up housing in the places they really need it now those two years what has been south cambs vision on growth and the economy from east west rail and the link thank you very much indeed so you know i have no expectation of us delivering you know housing other than what what is in our local plan obviously we had the announcement in the budget about new potential for new settlements around the stations associated with east west rail and as yet you know we hadn't had any clear indication of what that what that actually means you know in fact we don't even know where one of these these new settlements is meant to be they talked about one that cambridge city and you know nobody's going to give any indication about that but you know we're not being told at this moment in time that there will be an expectation for taking houses over and above what are identified as needed within our new emerging local plan so i'm certainly not saying to government come and build houses all over south cambridge because you know that's not what that's not what we're about it's not what we want and that's i'm glad to hear that from the chief executive is that the expectation from this this newly formed board is that they will start off by listening to us so but you know we have to as i said before our vision has to be formed by what our residents and our businesses and our communities are saying saying to us thank you leader um councillor butter chariot sorry councillor sorry so i apologize first we had councillor graham cone thank you chair my sister quick one i just wanted to ask the leader when will this council be consulting with residents in south cambridge here on the ox cam arc so as of now so we we are promoting the government's consultation as of now thank you and councillor dr butter chariot could i ask you to bring your microphone close to you and to speak slowly and clearly council butter chariot so that we can hear you okay okay thank you this is a new system thank you that you said that you are actually working for the people the community and you whatever council butter chariot i apologize for interrupting could you bring your microphone close to you and and speak clearly thank you leader you just said that whatever development you were doing or planning you were doing for the people of south cambridge here i just heard that when i remember that few days back um you even did not actually tell us bother to tell us to contact even the camp on town council the councillors of camp one and the people of camp one about the new development of your plan that is in the i mean that is in the business that plot so you never bother to contact us you never bother to contact the people of camp one you never bother to contact the town i mean our our existing town council and you were saying that you were doing whatever you want to do for the people of camp one or for the people of south cambridge here resident i just heard that that's why i mentioned so it is not always true so can i clarify your question was will you be consulting will you be consulting with i mean i just said yeah i just said the statement is not true the statement is not true council butter chariot thank you we heard i'll just clarify thank you would you like to answer that well i don't think there's really a question but i mean you know we the we are promoting the government's consultation on the Oxford Cambridge arc to all of the communities in south cambridge sorry i believe councilor dr ritchard williams has a question thank you chair um it's really just a question i may do because i maybe didn't push my point for a follow-up but could i just via you maybe via the leader um get somehow to chief executive sorry councilor ritchard williams please would you slow down sorry could i just seek a bit of verification from what the chief executive said oh okay thank you i think i'm the only person speaking now um could i just somehow get to the chief executive and just ask her to clarify the point she made in response to me earlier was it the case that we've been offered a place on the advisory board or just that we've been offered the opportunity to speak to the chair thank you sorry chief executive would you like to respond to that uh it's certainly not a place on the expert advisory panel it's an invitation to talk to the panel thank you councilor heather williams thank you chairman i appreciate the second time i spoke on this subject but i just wanted to pick up something which i don't think the leader may have understood clearly um is that the questions that have been asked by some of my colleagues over here is when will the council be consulting not promoting an external consultation as in government but when will the leader the cabinet and this council be asking residents here what they want from it not just signposting to an external consultation surely we should be asking our residents ourselves thank you um do you wish to respond to that leader yeah so shall um so i mean i think there's a risk of duplication but i will take that point away and and consider it so you know because you know i sit on the leader's board the combined authority you know i i trust that i will be privy to the results of the government's consultation and i would hope that that would uh that would give us some insight into to what the people and the businesses in different parts of the art want so you know really that i will i should have i'm sure i will have access to the results of the government's consultation i'm happy though councilor williams to go away and have some conversations to see whether you know there is that value to be added by this council doing something independently itself so thank you very much for that suggestion thank you leader uh councillor cuscott i believe you wish to speak do feel free to take your mask off when you're speaking councillor cuscott thank you i think it's already been touched on already about it i i think i'm welcome on leader's involvement in this issue it's clearly very important and it does look as if she's got the determination and energy to actually deal with all the salient issues which i would welcome i'd just say that there's really an awful lot happening in this district at the moment i've got our own local plan we've got the combined authority of the planning role we've got the east west rail we've got this and we've got we've got the combined authority all of whom have an old involvement in strategic planning matters there are different time scales involve all these processes but i think there's some way has to be found to stitching all this lot together to make sure that they actually operate harmoniously otherwise one is in the danger of very specific serious whole development scenario operating at slightly different sort of speeds and at slightly different priorities it's a complex issue to to try to get this all-east development initiatives to fit together but i think it's just something to be bearing to bear in mind with this particular issue here thank you leader thank you so thank you councillor kathcart for your faith in me being able to represent this council well on this very significant issue so you're quite right our our communities are under enormous pressure and we there's probably more happening in south cambridge than in any other you know comparably sized district in in the country so with that in mind and having been speaking to a number of parish councils who've really reiterated to me what you've just said that there's a lot happening everything with different time scales everything with different ways of inputting into and actually they're feeling really really pressurized by it so i've had conversations with cabinet and with the chief executive and she and her leadership team are discussing ways at which we can help support our communities to battle their way through this and to hopefully not feel so threatened by it and also to give them greater clarity over what our role is what our level of influence is what our position is and how we will be representing what they need so it's a very current topic at the moment so thank you for raising it thank you leader and thank you councillor kathcart would you turn in right i'm going to call a halt there and we'll move on thank you for that very thorough airing of views we're going to yes you've already spoken once councillor roberts the leader spoke a second time but i'm not taking any further councillor heather williams is the leader of the conservative group i led allowed her to speak twice i have not allowed anybody else to speak twice and i don't intend to as i said at the beginning of this meeting i want this meeting to proceed quickly for reasons to do with covid thank you it is because she was the leader of the conservatives that i allowed her to speak twice councillor roberts i'm calling a halt for reasons of time we've had a good airing of the discussion and i think it's time to move on thank you no it's because i think we've had a very long discussion and airing and i my feeling is as a council we've have understood exactly where people's concerns are thank you i should be moving on item 12 thank you councillor roberts councillor bygott point of order what point of order are you bringing is there a distinction between the leader is there a distinction between no can i ask what point of order you are bringing is it a matter of personal personal explanation no no it's about the standing orders who's allowed to speak is there a difference between the leader of a group and the convener the independent the ability for people to speak twice is at the chairman's discretion i allowed the leader i admit i also allowed richard williams to speak but i'm calling a halt for reasons of timing is that is that a satisfactory explanation councillor bygott thank you thank you i'm moving on to item 12 thank you i just want to go through the appointments to committees and other bodies which is on page little two of our agenda i plan to have a comfort break before we come to questions for two councillors or from councillor sorry so item 12 appointments to committees and other bodies members your attention is drawn to the changes in membership or roles for the committees and other bodies are set out in the agenda the first appointment at item a requires a vote we are asked to note and endorse the replacement of councillor peter mcdonald by councillor henry bachelor as the council nominated member on the investment partnership boards uh can i ask is there a proposal for that councillor goff thank you and is there a seconder for that councillor williams john williams so are there any uh comments on that no okay so does anybody wish to vote against that proposal okay and are you content to take this decision by affirmation agreed thank you does anybody wish to object or abstain no good so this council therefore agrees the motion by affirmation would anybody wish for a short break in the meeting oh sorry yes sorry i apologize i thought there was a pause can i just wait for the break until we get to just before item 13 next we are asked to consider at b on page little two to note the following changes in the membership of committees or substitute appointments which have been made in accordance with the wishes of the leader of the political group to which the seats concerned have been allocated as set out on the agenda the change notified is in respect of the climate and environment advisory committee and is a replacement of councillors ruth bettson and nick right by councillors sue ellington and mark howell are substitute members of that committee we therefore note these changes and uh i believe are there any other changes of appointment to committees to note from the political group leaders this is at item c none from myself chairman thank you councillor williams and leader and no but i do have one for d please okay thank you um so d is to agree any changes required in the membership of outside bodies leader uh thank you uh so could you please note that um the role of um my deputy my deputy my sub on the cambridge and peter combined authority did sit with councillor neil goth but he's standing down from that role and so councillor john williams will take over as my substitute on the cambridge and peter for a combined authority as of uh as an immediate effect thank you very much leader right that brings item to us sorry apologize for getting to the end of that before we got to the end of it thank you so would anybody like a short break yes okay so can i suggest i by my watch well by the clock up there it's 15 25 can i suggest that we reconvene at 15 35 10 minutes no 35 10 minutes from now for a short comfort break yes do we agree what do we want okay 15 minutes in which case uh 15 um 40 by that clock on the wall thank you the council meeting of south cancer strict council after we've had a short break so we're on item 13 uh which is on page little three of our agenda pack and members you are reminded this is sorry questions from councillors members you're reminded that we have a period of 30 minutes for questions this includes the question for which notice has been provided as set out on the agenda and if there is still time remaining after those questions with notice have been dealt with we'll then deal with any questions which have been notified to democratic services manager in writing before the start of this meeting so the first question is from councillor peter feign councillor feign would you like to ask your question question has written on the order paper thank you councillor feign uh i invite councillor john williams to respond thank you chair um first generally in response to both this question from council feign and the next from council uh councillor waters i can let you know that a strategy to bring empty homes back into use as quickly as possible is being worked on at the moment using best practices from elsewhere and will be coming to cabinet in the autumn and it will take account of the issues highlighted by both councillors dealing with councillor feign's question specifically we should bear in mind that we do have of course a general discretion under section 13 a of the local government finance act 1992 as inserted by section 76 of the local government finance act 2003 to reduce or remit council tax should a council tax payer apply for assistance using this opportunity empty homes can of course also be let to shy homes for housing homeless families south camps takes on the management of the property which can include minor repairs to return them to use and the owner receives them a rent after i have to point out this cannot always be done in all cases this council decided to charge the additional council tax for long-term empty properties in january 2013 effective from the first of april 2013 in line with the length of time the property had been unoccupied and subsequently unfurnished in accordance with the local government finance act to uh 2012 under section under part 11 b of the act a property is a long-term empty dwelling on any day if for a continuous period of at least two years ending with that day there is no provision for this period to be amended with a change of ownership as councillor feign asks in november 2018 the rating property property in common occupation and council tax empty dwellings act 2018 enabled the council to increase the additional amount charged and following a review of the long-term empty properties in south cambridge in february 2019 this council agreed to increase the charges the additional charges for long-term empty properties are listed in the annual council tax advertisement are published on our website and are detailed in the information leaflet that is supplied with a council tax bill finally i should put i should add that to put this into context as of november 2018 when we increased the charge we had 180 properties attracting additional council tax charge out of a tax base of over 62 600 while this month the figure of long-term properties had slightly reduced to 171 out of a 2021 tax base that had increased over 64 400 thank you councillor williams councillor feign did you have any supplementary question no chair i don't see any need for that i know that councillor waters has a similar question and i think that'll probably cover the issue thank you councillor bunty waters thank you chair um thank you very much for that um very comprehensive response what i was actually asking though is do we help do we assist people who've got homes that need refurbishing bringing up into liveable um conditions councillor williams okay well thank you well i'll answer both the question that's written and also the um further question as of this tuesday 20 of july there were 706 privately owned empty properties which have been empty from between one day and two years so this figure does not include the longer term empty properties that i referred to in my answer to councillor feign's question council tax is collected from these homes i should add that the 706 doesn't include unoccupied properties where someone has died and are going through probate as to giving financial assistance to bring these properties back into use the reasons for them being unoccupied can be many and varied and this council has not until now had a comprehensive strategy to deal with this this is why i hope shortly we will have such a strategy meanwhile i should reiterate my earlier reply to councillor feign that we have discretionary powers to help with council tax hardship which could provide financial easement to enable a property to be brought back into use and as i say there is also shy homes but i repeat myself as i said to in response to councillor feign that these issues are going to be taken into account in the new strategy so councillor waters uh are you satisfied or did you have any further question no further questions and thank you for i'm very pleased to hear that thank you councillor waters so councillor tom bygott would you ask your question please thank you chairman as on the order paper thank you very much uh councillor i invite councillor dr timmy hawkins to respond uh thank you very much um chair uh councillor bygott i thank you for your interest in the matter of king krish upon um and i welcome it considering the problem began to be noticed in 2015 when you and your conservative colleagues when administration but did nothing about it i will remind you that councillor seara john johnson and alex malion took up the matter in 2018 chairman 12.7 a direct oral answer the leading member for the planning does not appear to be giving a direct oral answer she's talking about things that had happened previously to this administration and it clearly asks what have they done and what is going on now councillor head williams thank you for your for your observation my observation is that councillor bygott's question referred to water levels in king krish upon having had having declined which is the past tense so can you carry on thank you chair you will recall that councillor seara john johnson and alex malion took up the matter in 2018 after they became councillors for the ward and this administration began to address the issue we commissioned hr wallingford on behalf of long stanton parish council to look into it and we and the parish council have received the report given the conclusions and recommendations in the report you will no doubt be pleased to know that we have developed an action plan that sets out the measures that the council proposes to follow to assist in resolving the issues identified we have shared that action plan with local ward councillors and with the parish council once we get their feedback and agreement on the action plan we condense that working with all parties identified to take the actions set out in it thank you chair thank you councillor hawkins uh sorry councillor doctrine hawkins councillor bygott would you like to ask a supplementary question so thank you very much so i'm very much looking forward to you seeing the action plan when the time comes for us to be able to see it so my subsequent supplementary question is that a revised application for north stow phase 2a is currently pending with the council an up-to-date environmental statement is required for that application but no environmental statement or up-to-date hydrological baseline data have been provided if the council is serious about protecting the environment at north stow why hasn't the council requested that the applicant provide this information as required by law hawkins do you wish to respond yes i will thank you councillor bygott this is a matter that will very easily have been resolved i speak into the case officer or to myself but i do not have the specific details for that application and i'm happy to look into it and give you feedback after this meeting thank you thank you councillor councillor heather williams would you like to ask your question thank you chairman as on the order paper very much can i invite councillor dr timmy hawkins to respond thank you chair um directly no uh not at all um the shared planning service with the exception of the last year when the covid pandemics significantly adversely impacted both developer confidence and development activity has been able to operate inside the budget set by this council thank you chair and councillor hawkins do i understand that you were speaking on behalf of the leader in that answer that is correct chair councillor heather williams do you have any further questions i do chairman thank you um so through yourself chairman i'm i'm assuming i'm now asking the lead member for planning that um i'd just like to cast the back her mind back to page 333 of the 20th of february 2021 report 2020 i should have said um which shows a credit figure of 851 000 against development management so our department that processes applications given the issues that there are in determining applications on time and getting them through the process surely there should be some regret in that financial decision being made as our officers can only do what is within the resources that this administration gives them and if the performance isn't there i'd say that's purely the responsibility of them not being resourced properly i know that's what i was wondering i'm not sure there's actually a question is do you regret that figure that i've quoted that is the same as the first question that you asked no uh it says does the leader regret the budget decisions the administration has made since 2018 in general i'm now asking specifically about the 851 000 pounds that shows us a credit figure on the budget that's specifically on development management thank you councillor hawkins did you would you wish to respond or i will respond i don't keep figures in my head but if there's a credit i would imagine that it was because we couldn't get the resources that we were trying to recruit and as you very well know there is a shortage of good planners in the country we will continue to try our best to resource in terms of people and we have actually gone out to recruitment and have succeeded in getting some more and i'm happy to discuss that either with councillor heller williams or with councillor right who would be the planning person for your group thank you thank you councillor dr hawkins i understand we have an additional question um given with uh less notice uh from councillor richard williams after the deadline would you like to ask your question councillor williams thank you yes oh sorry i'm not sure if uh leaders i've noticed that this but my question was does the leader believe that the council should take enforcement action where breaches of planning rules are identified following complaints from residents uh yes and i do this was addressed to the it was um and it has been delegated to me thank you very much thank you councillor dr hawkins do go ahead thank you chair the council receives a number of complaints about breaches of planning or shall i say alleged breaches of planning from many sources and of course the environment service that the enforcement service responds to these uh complaints and where we identify a breach of planning regulation we do have to consider whether the breach is one that is still actionable and can be pursued and if it would expedient uh to do so bearing in mind the level of harm that was identified there are breaches where further action is not considered expedient to be taken and this is where there's a breach of planning control but it's not considered to cause planning harm and that taking action would not be proportionate and of course if enforcement is to be taken we do have regard to national planning policy and local plan policies and or relevant materials and of course each case is dealt with on a case by case basis so where there is an investigation of the planning breach action will be taken as appropriate thank you chair thank you councillor dr hawkins i don't think we have any other oh sorry sorry councillor rich woodins thank you chair i didn't want to have to wait ten minutes to come back for supplementary again um thank you very much for for for that answer i'm sure as the lead member for planning knows i'm sure as we all know it often takes a great deal of courage um for residents to come forward um and report an alleged breach of planning and it is very disappointing for residents to put it mildly when um what the lead member referred to happens is that they're effectively written back to and told yes there is a breach of planning rules but we're not going to do anything about it now there may be a very good reason for that and i take on board everything um councillor Hawkins has said about the necessary balances but would um councillor Hawkins and indeed the administration undertake to perhaps look um at a slightly different system where where a breach of planning um is identified following a complaint from residents at the very least the enforcement team might write for the relevant householder to note that potential breaches of planning or likely breaches of planning have been identified and therefore invite them to apply the appropriate permissions so at least residents can see some action when um they as i say often take the very courageous step um in their individual cases to report breaches and are not left feeling that the council really isn't listening to them at all and doesn't really care thank you i think i understood the question there um we will communicate better if that is your question thank you um can i just ask councillor dr Hawkins um if there's anything else in councillor richard williams's question that you might wish to address i'm sorry but all the question i had was would we undertake to write to yeah undertake to write to people which the question has been the supplementary question has been put and been answered thank you so thank you for those questions thank you for those questions thank you for those questions we will end it there item 14 notices of motion uh you're reminded that a maximum period you're reminded that a maximum period of 30 minutes is allowed for each motion to be moved seconded and debated including dealing with any amendments at the expiry of the 30 minute period the debate will cease immediately and the mover of the original motion or if the original motion has been amended the mover of that amendment now forming this substantive motion will have the right of reply before the motion or the amendment is put to the vote so uh the first question sorry first motion thank you uh item 14 a has been withdrawn moving to 14 b standing in the name of councillor heather williams would you like to put your motion councillor williams thank you chairman um i'm while moving the amendment i'm i'm going to sorry you're moving the amendment sorry while i'm moving the motion i'm going to bring forward the amendment as has been shared with me by councillor neil goth on behalf of the liberal democrat group i'm not going to say i'm happy about it because essentially it changes everything apart from the first sentence however i'm pragmatic in this occasion chairman and so i will accept it the reason for me bringing this motion is because i don't know if members are aware but since may 2018 over 50 percent of cabinet and full council meetings have at some point resulted in exclusion of press and public personally i believe that we should be as open as possible with residents and that it should be a last resort to exclude them i'm going to stand by everything that is said and written in this original motion it is in the public's interest that we share as much as is possible with them and we are accountable to them i'm still at a slight loss as to what the words public that we are accountable to and it's in the public's interest that we are open and transparent as possible i still chairman struggle to know what is the issue with those words however being pragmatic have accepted the changes once they're displayed obviously so we need to be really careful and remind ourselves who we serve and chairman we do serve our residents we are their public servants and we need to be open with them currently i feel that the balance is tilting the wrong way and so i'm seeking to remind all members that we don't have to always go into private session particularly in relation to minutes while we may enter the original meeting which you've not heard any issues from me on chairman that's because something is commercially sensitive potentially a deal is going to be done once that deal has happened it is no longer commercially sensitive however this council has got into the habit of then still keeping those minutes confidential and away from the public so chairman that's what it seeks to do a little reminder of why we're here and what we should be doing it's not something chairman that i thought would be controversial even that we should all be standing for openness and transparency but obviously it has had some issues within the administration so i move this motion chairman and i believe councillor gough is moving the amendment which i will accept so can we see the text of the amendment from democratic services but we have to see what it is don't we Jonathan Jonathan molten could you would you be so kind as to share the amendment on our screens thank you chair unfortunately i don't seem to have the amendment would it be possible if councillor heather williams could send that over to me please thank you councillor gough's amendment so or has it been sent to any of the democratic services officers okay chairman if possible can my motion be seconded before we get the amendment as is normal the first of all we need to start with proposing your original doing not so can i just ask you are you proposing your original yes chairman i understand the process in this situation if i move my motion it gets seconded then the amendment gets so i'm just as which is what i'm trying to do councillor williams thank you who is your seconder for the original thank you very much councillor cohan now i understand there is an amendment for that which we are hoping to see on our screens councillor gough i understand you have are you able to just let's pause for a moment i believe it will be there shortly chairman with your chairman with your commission and may i request that councillor gough reads the amendment in a nice clear voice and i'm sure that will be okay and we'll get the meeting going as well and oh there we are there we are here we are now can i just clarify and the normal way as normal the text that's being deleted is shown struck through an additional text has been added at the end councillor gough would you like to read your amendment or shall we all read it ourselves let's read it ourselves can we just can i read it this council recognizes that the minutes relating to private meetings can be made available to the public if the grounds for exclusion of the meeting no longer apply the text that has been deleted is as follows this council will seek to share the minutes of meetings where possible and will only keep them confidential as an absolute last resort recognizing that it is to the public that we are accountable and it is in the public's interest that we are open and transparent as possible that text has been deleted the following text has been added this council recognizes the importance of openness and transparency and will share the minutes of meetings wherever possible in accordance with the provisions of the law and the constraints of commercial confidentiality councillor heather williams are you happy to accept that amendment chairman councillor cone has seconded he normally gets a chance to speak or be asked if he's sorry i'm asking if you accept that amendment to you haven't followed the original process first chairman councillor cone's already seconded it yes that he have a right to speak with his second bit but that's the motion as unamended and i thought we'd taken the amendment no we haven't got to that bit yet fine councillor cone would you like to speak i assume you're speaking on the original yes okay yeah sorry chairman i'll be very brief so yet as explained i support the original motion and i think actually everything that was written there was perfectly reasonable and i'm sad to see that the the amendment does somewhat water it down but the reasons of moving this issue forward i would be happy to accept the amendment as it's been put forward and but i do think everything in the original motion was very relevant so thank you thank you councillor would anybody else like to discuss this councillor goff exactly councillor goff we can't hear you you might be better taking your mask off and speaking yeah i'd like to propose the amendment which was previously on the screen and was read out so kindly by you so yeah thank you and i have a seconder who is your seconder councillor john williams thank you so that's the heather williams do you accept the amendment yes chairman i accept the amendment i'm sure councillor cone will as well so we'll take that as a substantive motion would anybody like to speak to the substantive motion councillor goff and councillor cathart councillor goff okay thank you um and and thank you to have a uh councillor heather williams bringing this motion that uh as you say it does give us the opportunity to recognize the importance of openness and transparency and the minders of that and we very much endorse endorse that and the motion the original motion was uh two sentences we kept the first one i kept the first one exactly the same nevertheless the motion the second sentence doesn't really frame as well as it could the judgment and balance that has to be made on a case by case basis regarding withholding information and for that reason we have a pro propose i have proposed the following of that amendment let me explain why i have done so there are reasons supported by law why the minutes of meetings can be withheld that includes where the information concerns the financial or business affairs of the council because disclosure of that information could potentially harm the interests of the council and therefore thereby our residents for example where we enter into the space where we're in competition with negotiating with or partnering with other bodies putting information into the public domain exposes that commercial information to parties that may be able to benefit from it against the interests of the council and our residents therefore the right to withhold information uh protects the interests of the council and the people we were accountable to and that needs to be balanced on a case by case basis against the benefits of publication and that is exactly what is provided for in the law and the issue of public interest in this in these circumstances is one of balance i would just like to point out to council have williams that even when you conclude a deal there is some information which may still be commercially sensitive because the basis under which you negotiate or or enter into that transaction is still commercially confidential and could be used against the interests of the council and as a person who previously i entered into this i can assure you that that is the case the second sentence of the original motion introduced and you referenced um council heather williams this concept of as a last resort the only last resort of relevance is protecting the interests of the public and that takes us right back to the need for exercising careful judgment and balancing the advantages and disadvantages of disclosure as provided for in the law and that has to be done on a case by case basis and the law requires all of those balances to be applied therefore there's no benefit in the original sentence in motion which seeks to imply interpretation to how those inherently complex judgments should be made our amendment makes it clear that this council strongly supports openness and transparency but is clear about the balance on the basis under which it is be followed in doing so thank you very much yes yes thank you chair um i'd just like to pick up on the point about the number of uh meetings that um we have to go into private confidential i think as everyone knows over the past three years we've transformed this council and before we um came to this council it basically had one commercial interest which was urban street and um normally when discussing um the financial situation of urban street that was done under private confidential because if we had financial information about properties point of information we had financial information about individual properties which were not published in the minutes of that meeting since since since then we have we have broadened our since then point of information chair is that during the um urban street most of it was done in open session the lead member for finance i believe has just said that it was all done no i said was done in closed session the majority of it and very very little of it was done very well to be clear very little was done in closed session chairman and we can go through the record to check it as i have thank you thank you you've made a point that's where john as i pointed out when we were discussing individual financial matters with urban street they were taken in private confidential now since then we have um broadened our um basket of commercial interest we haven't had put all that x in one basket with urban street we have broadened that and we've taken on other commercial um activities including partnerships and clearly therefore this council by doing that has had to go into private and confidential session when discussing the negotiations um with regard to the financial and other interests of third parties if we weren't able to do that then we wouldn't be able to come to our decisions on very important matters for the residents of this uh this district um of course we wouldn't be able to discuss uh and disclose financial and other interests of our partners and others that are involved with our commercial um acquisitions so that's the reason why there has been an increase in the number of uh meetings that we have you know and and it doesn't come second nature to us at all not to disclose everything you know the liberal democrats believing very much open government but there are occasions where we must ensure to protect ourselves protect the council and our residents that we must ensure that commercial sensitive information is kept in private and confidential i'd also like to point out that of course every time we go into a private and confidential session that that is taken by a vote um and um those who disagree uh with us doing that can always vote against that and also um the minutes of those meetings there is a um a public minute issued of those of those meetings so it's not true to say that no minutes are are public are published of those meetings and again those minutes have to take into account the commercial sensitivity of what's being discussed so that's why you know there has been an increase it's been an increase because there's been an increase in our commercial activities over the past three years thank you councillor Williams um can i i understand that councillor ever what it's like to speak this is so now just to be clear we're in the debate about what is now substantive motion thank you thank you madam chairman quite understood uh and i won't be supporting it uh because um it appears to me that uh what was being put forward for consideration was to make sure that uh this actually happened and that we were showing ourselves to be open and to transparent and getting the details out it has now been twisted in such a way in my opinion to actually negate it because there's no guarantee now uh it will be well maybe and perhaps and well if this happens or if that happens so i think it actually negates it and i think i'm sorry to say i think the proposer and seconder should have actually not accepted it but that's their prerogative however um my feelings about this is that um um you've actually given us council Williams the very reasons that it should be open to the public the fact is that this council has got into the very murky bed of developers we could have put our money into lots of different pots um in the financial sector as doing lots of businessmen put their money into all sorts of um transactions not necessarily bricks and mortar but into into the other world of finance and pensions and all sorts of things however we have decided to become property developers and we are in bed with a certain property uh agency and yes that must make it very difficult for us doesn't it because we're actually spending or borrowing um lots of money um to benefit ourselves and if it all goes pear-shaped i'm sure that uh it's required by the um controlling group to have as little down on paper as possible for the blame to be um pinged at them it's like the government and it's pinging um so um it seems to me that this is still what is being put forward by the liberal democrat controlling group is an attempt to actually not be open and transparent to be actually the very opposite of that to make sure as little as possible is known about what they're up to um how much of the public's money they are spending um and so if it all goes pear-shaped um they think they'll get away with it or in my opinion that's what they think we'll get away with so i'm not accepting this i don't accept any of the arguments but that has been made by councillor williams um liberal democrat councillor williams um this is not an acceptable way we are answerable to the public we should not be ashamed or frightened even if we think it's going to have an effect on who's going to vote for us of actually accounting for ourselves and accounting for the way that we are spending not our money but the residents money many who are actually under a great deal of financial pressure themselves but would actually like to know what we are doing thank you can i ask that uh jonathan put malton puts the wording of the amendment back up on the screen so we have that in front of us as the debate progresses jonathan would you be able to do that great thank you very much indeed uh councillor cathcart i believe you wish to speak thank you yeah hey i'll be doing i think we should support the cathcart would you like to take your mask please you should support openness and transparency however there are occasions clearly when negotiations take place it happens in all states of life happens in commerce it happens in central government it happens on this council uh and you have to i think recognize the circumstances by those discussions and suggestions can actually be be be considered in with some degree of confidentiality usually find no final decisions being made but a final decisions taken at a later stage in the process anyway but i think for preliminary discussions you do have to preserve that degree of of of confidentiality in order to make sure that those people coming to those meetings can actually speak really fairly freely about the fact that they're what they're going to say we'll instantly get into the payment you can use the next day in fact you know that would not be in anyone's interests because you won't be able then to have the free open discussions which we will value so i think a reasonable degree of protection still needs to be built in also the motion is slightly vague it talks about private meetings in a sense when you look at it numerous meetings take place with this authority meetings between individuals who have a proposal of a planning officer they want to have a discussion presumably and this requires clarifications you wouldn't be saying that all private meetings there'd be presumption releasing information or individuals concerning someone's degree of confidentiality issues presumably we're only talking here about meetings between members individuals but not those myriad of relatively small scale private meetings which are a sort of the the nuts and bolts that accounts so we just want that point to be clarified because otherwise we could be in the position of every single meeting with perhaps two or three people taking place because subject to actually you know being published next okay just want to make those a couple of points thank you councillor Cathcart are there any other requests to speak councillor Bygott thank you jem so i'm very much in support of this motion i believe we all are i believe because we need to have open and transparent debate um i would have supported a stronger motion and so i'm a little bit disappointed that the group in power has sort of watered it down a bit um so i'm not going to request another amendment but i would i would like to do continue to speak up i would like to call on the leadership to show some leadership and make a public commitment that once the um minutes uh that are confidential for commercial reasons no longer needs to be confidential that the uh the council does make a commitment to then release those minutes and make them make the public now one of the things that um council robert's mentioned uh was the uh the partnership with the developer in the camp on business park and i think it is incredibly important that if we're going to be as a council acting as a property developer we still retain our role as a regulator of developers and in some sense as we're regulating ourselves and i think it's incredibly important to the public that the public see that we are regulating developers and we are holding them to account and they need to know that we are doing our function as we are required to do thank you thank you councillor bygott is there anybody else who wishes to speak no right i think we'll go to the vote oh sorry yep oh sorry yes sorry as the proposer of the amended motion thank you sorry councillor heather williams oh sorry uh no i don't think so councillor kothcote you've already spoken once sorry councillor kothcote point of clarification do please turn on your microphone sorry um this question of private meetings can we be sure that small meetings between individuals or perhaps some of them a planning application won't be subject to um uh publication because these uh these are usually private anyway the problem is i believe you are reiterating the point that you made earlier yes but i just want clarification but it won't apply in those case in these cases that's one of us okay right thank you councillor kothcote i think we understood your point and you were seeking clarification councillor henry bachelor thank you chair um given the way the debate's going i feel and he should probably declare an interest given the fact that um the various partnerships that we are invested in have been mentioned and i have at this meeting just been elected to represent the council i should probably declare that as an interesting thank you very much councillor bachelor did anybody else wish to speak on this matter councillor richard williams so thank you chair and i'm looking to you uh for guidance on this but to help our councillor cathgard would it be in order for me to propose an amendment so it says this council recognizes at the minutes relating to private meetings of the council and its committees are you i'm happy i'm happy to accept that chair could we just clarify thank you could we just clarify councillor richard williams would you like so we've lost the amendment again um we just clarify you were adding the word and this council i it's gone off screen now but i was adding the words of this council and its committees uh so as i understand it councillor heather williams you were prepared to accept that amendment to this now sustained admission yes i am but it helps clarify things as councillor cathgard williams thank you councillor um persons yes do go ahead as as chair of the order in corporate governance community we can't hear you councillor mason do do turn your microphone on tom thank you as as chair of the order in corporate governance committee we're still very quiet sorry this is why i don't speak as as chair of the audit and corporate governance committee i am frequently in meetings with the auditors that are private and confidential and the discussions in those meetings should not be made public because it was only by having those meetings with the auditors and the internal auditors that we will get an honest viewpoint so adding committees to that amendment gives me a cause for concern so you would be opposing the addition of and committees removal can i just take advice from our legal advisor um just to say that i would be happy that if the amendment were passed it wouldn't cover the situation if you're referring to its committees in the sense of committees set up under the local government act 72 and councillor ritchie williams is not in so um hopefully that will allay your fears thank you thank you uh yes councillor melms thank you i just wanted to check that um this wasn't an entirely superfluous uh amendment the operation of the council is principally done through its committees so it is one of the same thing so i don't i don't believe that it actually has any clarification whatsoever point forward to chairman i've accepted it will proceed and uh i'm mindful that we don't have much long before the end of this could you make it brief councillor goh could we see could we see the amendment i'm sorry could we see the amendment thank you yes we've got the amendment up so where was it we were going to it's it's in the first sentence after private meetings which was common actually between council with his motion and my amendment motion can we just clarify this council recognizes that the minutes relating to private meetings what was the wording then of the council and its committees of the council and of the council and its committees it was to address councillor cat that we're not talking about private meetings with residents what what i was going to say is i i think it's a good amendment given that councillor cat got raised the issue and private meetings can be interpreted as private meeting outside i think it's fine thank you councillor goh and you've amended councillor head the williams has accepted that amendment so we'll go to the vote thank you we'll i get some up chair sorry do go ahead thank you chairman could i just ask that you do it quickly otherwise we're going to run out of time i will not use more than the time that is allowed for me chairman um so i think i'll just remind people for the we vote about the first sentence it does say minutes it's minutes relating to private meetings chairman i think people seeing this is all private meetings it's very specific in there um i get the impression i i'm being inferred to that it's incredibly complicated and people just can't understand it or perhaps it's that i can't understand it chairman because funny enough i think i can um there's nothing legally incorrect in this nor the previous one and uh other commercial activities and partnerships what councillor john williams raises yes this council has gone into different ventures sorry councillor williams could i just i'm sorry to interrupt you i just wanted to point out that we have 30 minutes for each motion in total so i'm just trying to avoid us running over that time please do you might run over it now chairman but um but yes so for that in turn has increased the risk that we're exposing taxpayers money too so i think it's right that we find a balance um and that we shouldn't just as has been said to protect ourselves it must be about protecting residents and being open and accountable to them so i hope after the amendments and the agreed amendments that we will see some uniform support for this but um but yeah it is a shame chairman that uh it has taken so long to get an agreement or something which should be done without saying okay can we take the vote uh so can i just ask whether it is agreed by affirmation or no we have one more objective so we do need to take it by a vote uh so these can uh we set up a vote uh we we have the opportunity to vote on our um handsets i i note councillor by got councillor roberts can you see the vote so can we take your is it councillor by got who's okay can we take your vote by an indication verbally are we allowed okay which way would councillor by got like to vote thank you can we take those as noted and everybody else vote on the uh microphones sorry that disappeared very quickly three abstentions so that will be a total of 25 agreed including councillor by got's verbal vote no again none against and two abstent three three abstentions i think councillor roberts did you record your abstention on your microphone so it's two abstentions so that vote is carried thank you moving on to 14c standing in the name of councillor dr ian solemn can i ask council solemn to propose his motion thank you chair um there are over six million families on universal credit now that's more than double what it was pre-pandemic sorry council so can i just ask you to speak up a little please thank you that's more than double than what the figure was pre-pandemic and all of those families are facing a cliff edge when the 20 pound uplift per week is removed at the end of september as the government has indicated that it intends to follow through that cuts and it is a cut will disproportionately affect single parents 90% of women it will disproportionately affect black and ethnic minority families and households that include someone who's disabled it will put more than half a million people into poverty including 200 000 children and i know that this council was incredibly concerned in november when we brought a motion about free school meals during holiday times about children being in poverty universal credit isn't just about people being out of work of course nearly two-fifths of universal credit uh adults and families receiving universal credit are employed it is an in-work benefit and the range of which the 20 pound cut is in terms of a cut in their income varies between about eight percent and 28 percent so it is significant and is noted in the motion this will affect living standards of those people it's simply not right to take income away from those lowest income families at the time when they need it most we are still in the in the pandemic and the fact that there was 20 pound uplift in the first place at the beginning of the pandemic was an implicit acknowledgement that it wasn't enough to live on the evidence from the public on this and there's been research done that what the public thinks a minimum income standard is is barely it is more than double or nearly more than double um depending on exactly what the circumstances are of what uh what universal credit provides so like those six former ministers of state since 2010 we really need to let the government know that this is affecting we'll be affecting our residents and let them know that it's wrong so I urge the council to to back this this motion I have amended the motion slightly in order to make it clear about the list of named people there being foreign ministers in the Department for Work and Pensions rather than former leaders of the Conservative Party as it could have been read and also just as slight change on the word deplores we have moved it to something that I believe was more acceptable to the opposition and from my perspective I think strongly disapproves is probably the dictionary definition of deplores so I'm happy to go with the definition thank you so uh I'm taking that amended motion as we have on the screen can I understand when you have a second up for your amended motion for my amended motion I do have a second that's councillor rippith thank you very much would you like to speak now councillor rippith thank you to remove the 20 pound uplift in universal credit in the next few months on the 1st of October from the most vulnerable in society is to my mind unacceptable this world this would coincide with the end of furlough the pandemic has not gone away as cases rise and hospitalizations to both locally and nationally this is the worst time to do this as a society and as a council we need to do everything within our power to ensure this uplift is made permanent to help support our most vulnerable citizens therefore I'm happy to support councillor dr Ian solans motion and hope this council will vote in favour of it thank you councillor rippith so we have a motion that has been amended and proposed and seconded thank you would anybody like to speak thank you I have councillor heather williams and councillor debra roberts councillor heather williams thank you chairman um and I appreciate the conversation that's been had between myself and councillor solemn at solemn in these in this motion um I do think that at this time many of us here we welcome to the extra 20 pounds and at this time it is appropriate to keep it we do have families here in south cams but others in other areas struggling also um so I hope that we will join together today in sending the message that we would like to see it kept and the extra 20 pounds that on the original uplift um and from from our point of view today we will show that we will put people before party politics as we should all be doing thank you thank you councillor heather williams councillor debra roberts I really I really am not sure why well I guess I am sure why but why this is actually being put forward as an agenda item for us we can't make an ape of the difference to it um there's no actual factual information here as to exactly what the financial implications would be and I go along with both the person and the seconder that we still got a situation of the COVID experience going on but you know hospital input is a lot lot lower than it was very few people in reality are actually now fatalities and so you know we are getting to be in a much better place really there's an absolutely I was listening to radio for lunchtime and actually the cases have gone down quite dramatically in the last two days as well so we appear to have got over the high again um um it's where is this money tree that you a lot of think um is growing somewhere because today we've got the um hospitals union saying they aren't going to accept the the new up from 1.1 percent to 3 percent for wages in the NHS and that they want 15 percent um clouds and cloud cuckoo and some pigs might fly comes to mind um but you know then we've got the teachers now saying that having heard that that they're entitled to arise as well and then you'll get all the other services and um and what about the military who never seemed to be get anybody's attention care or interest um and you know there has to come a time when you really do have to ask yourself how far is the welfare state uh expected to provide for everybody and everybody's needs and everybody's desires um and you know I might have gone along with this if we'd have some more um information here and explanations of how and why we should be looking at only this and not lots of other things um and it seems to me that I was an awful lot I'm sorry to say a virtual signal in going on here let's tell all our residents that we are terribly caring sharing hands-on woke what your problems are our problems etc and so it seems to me that this this never should have been put forward um if we as individual councillors want to speak to our MP and support him that that's absolutely fine and as I said there may be a case for this but it hasn't been put to me and and we we haven't got any details and we're not looking at the um possible impact and and uh what will happen if you did this to this one group um this is what is happening different different uh groups are now being given priority over others and there's many a there's many uh on the bread line on the on that line between poverty and being okay in this district who are suffering greatly and because they're just above that line nobody's doing anything from thank you councillor Roberts councillor Cathcart thank you yes I I fully support this motion I think it would uh obviously uh the pandemic may be uh winding down or might not be you don't know but the damage will be permanent or the semi-permanent will go on for years to come damage people's livelihoods damage to families a whole range of things and that's exactly what this universal fit of the supposed to be is one of the safety net to ensure that there is a reasonable degree of protection which is a very similar society so more than happy to fully endorse it I mean uh councillor Roberts makes some prominent points actually that choices may have to be made in the future um but I think this is something we need to support this should be given the highest priority because it will help a significant number of people but yes let's look at or maybe put up taxes you know there may be all sorts of ways we can do it but I don't we've got to be having that debate today thank you councillor Roberts has I think councillor Cathcart has finished speaking thank you can I ask the members not to interrupt each other thank you one question at a time thank you councillor Heather Williams chairman I haven't requested again I just requested a comfort break after this motion okay thank you uh councillor councillor solemn did you did your we've heard from your seconder would you like to sum up I don't can't see anybody else wishing to speak on this motion yes I'll I'll be brief something I think contrary to to councillor Roberts that it is a responsibility of this council to make representations to central government when we feel it is an issue of vital importance and it seems to be and I'm pleased to hear that it is regarded as an issue of vital importance to this council the uplift would cost or maintaining the uplift would cost about six billion I believe for answer some of the specific questions that would take the the universe credit bill from 68 billion to 74 billion it sounds like a lot unfortunately it's not huge the way to reduce that welfare bill is to get people back into work and have a strong economy and a strong recovery out of the pandemic to reduce that welfare bill it's not to just slash benefits to people who are most vulnerable so I'm really pleased to hear people were supported and I'm happy to just to go to the vote thank you councillor solemn with no further request to speak let's take that to the vote could I ask members does is everybody in support or is anybody objecting okay thank you so can I understand it seems to me most of people here would like to support the vote we reckon we register your abstention can we take that by affirmation with the recognition of that one abstention we agreed thank you very much yep just like to take a five minute comfort break please for the benefit of members ten minutes okay so that takes it from 1650 we'll come back into the room at 1660 please so that'll be in fact five o'clock otherwise no no thank you yes Corinne Garvey had left in the in the previous break sorry councillor Malian thank you okay great very much so moving on swiftly after that break we're now looking at item 14d and this is a motion standing in the name of councillor Pippa Halings councillor Halings would you like to present your motion thank you very much well I think you know we all know that there are some reforms that are needed to the planning system but these need to be sensible and pragmatic and with nine in ten planning applications approved by councils and more than a million homes given permission that haven't yet been built you know it's more the housing delivery that's the problem rather than the planning system in itself and there's been significant disquiet and even amongst conservative MPs about some of the changes being proposed and I want to just look at two of them and the first is protecting the voice of local communities in the planning system one thing I believe we all protect fiercely as local members of whatever party is the democratic voice of our local residents in shaping the future of their area and in my ward of histone impington orchard parking there's all all wards I am sure you know we know how much time care expertise effort and knowledge that's brought to bear on single applications on proposed sites both small and large and then a planning committee those committee members know we you know we then invite in parish councils and any residents who either you know object to an application that could change their neighborhood or their village or their town and that feeds into our discussion as members about the balance between the benefits and harms of both kind of a complex application and ensure our policies are being respected but these reforms would do away with that only allowing local residents voice at the local plan making stage and basically at the outline stage of very very large and what they call the growth zones so it's kind of hard to understand in the name of enabling the building of new homes to tackle the housing crisis the government seems intent on unraveling the planning application and planning approval system and just providing developers with automatic permission basically in these areas zone for growth which means it's nothing more than a developer's charter and think they can size applications where the local authority and the local residents their voice can only be heard at the outline stage where everything is indicative and that's basically what this means and secondly we all share about the importance of ensuring the supply of affordable housing so the reforms proposed to replace section 105 and SIL with a new infrastructure levy and unfortunately there's just lack of any detail to know whether this levy that will be calculated nationally will maintain the existing levels of funding for council housing and for affordable housing and especially with the proposal to raise to 40 or 50 units the threshold for affordable housing compared to the existing 10 units the Cheshire Minamish and by-election results you know were a wake-up call that residents were very very unhappy about the government's reform and I hope our local MPs will support this and play their role and exert pressure to on behalf of their residents to question these reforms and protect the voice of residents and I do hope that we can support this this motion together. Williams did you wish to Chairman I have an amendment I wish to move Right just hold on thank you sorry do go ahead Councillor Heather Williams Chairman it has been submitted so I don't know if you want to play it So Jonathan Malton I haven't seen it I haven't seen it either but it is on the screen so I'm going to give us quiet please for a couple minutes while we just read this carefully ourselves would you like me to read it out for you for the people at home I can see it very well thank you okay just give me a moment to read it Chairman would you like to read it as I move the amendment Can you just give us a moment to read it ourselves and then I'll give you a chance to talk to it thank you so it is the first bullet point that's going to end it do carry on Councillor Heather Williams Thank you Chairman so the amendment to be clear removes to work together with developers and replaces it with so it reads local communities are empowered and heard by the local planning authority when shaping local areas and delivering new homes that are affordable to live in I think many of us will agree with maybe not all but much of what has been previously said however we do feel my particularly feel that we should to include given what has actually been referenced in moving the motion to then include say we're going to work with developers actually we need to be enforcing the things we need to be implementing our policies and we are the ones that need to be in charge of the situation as we are the ones that regulate it so I'm hoping it's a very small amendment and I and I seek to remove the suggestion of working with developers as I feel that that may more benefit as well the words that were moved in moving the motion Chairman I think I don't need any more to the amendment obviously post amendment I'd like to speak to substantive item thank you do you have a second through you Chairman and I really supported a lot that council hearings said I think a lot of this feel a great deal of concern you know whatever our modern politics we have and I think it's really important that we we try to make you know our voices heard if at all but I was unhappy about the first paragraph this council and that first paragraph because I also and taking up what council hearings were saying that she was wanting to get our residents to be very much listened to and involved and I think that putting the developers line in is just changing that I think we need to concentrate on our feelings and our concerns about our residents I think once you start bringing in developers in as well if you put that in they have got so much advantage against our residents they they have often unlimited money unlimited professional help and and I have seen them that various places various parents parish council meetings over the years they come to those meetings and it's supposed to be about talking to the parish council actually they lecture the parish council they basically inform the parish council what what should be happening which is beneficial to them and and I think that yes we can still continue our officers speaking to developers but I think that this motion is to do something different it's to actually give our residents the assurances that they do have a voice and that we want that voice to be heard not this business with the developers so I'm very much supporting the amendment is made I've got absolutely no problems with the second part is councillor Halings has put down I think that's excellent that's exactly what we are trying to do so I'm maybe hoping she'll accept it thank you very much thank you councillor Roberts can I come back to the proposer and seconder of the motion to establish whether you accept the amendment councillor for Halings yeah no no and thank you for you know being so I would think well I know especially those on the committee that we all share our concerns around this so thank you again for this the support around this and I can understand in a way the spirit of this but actually what I can't accept it because what I think it's doing is the whole focus of this motion is about stopping the reforms from taking away power both from local authorities and residents it's not a question of empower of making the local authority listen more to residents this is about reforms which are taking both local authorities and residents out of the equation and I think we need to focus on that and I can understand what you're saying about the the developers I hear what you're saying but my intention behind this is that what we need to do is get the balance right and I wish to speak to the amendment thank you thank thank you chairman and it is it's the amendment it's the bit about developers working with developers really alarms me because the developers are the ones who are pushing these reforms and the developers it is so difficult having worked in planning as has council robots and a few others for a long long time working with developers developers answer to their profit that is and their shareholders and owners and that is their interest it is making the profit and and you know you are trying to work with a shark not you know in the nicest possible way you will get eaten alive in the process and it is you know it is so difficult we it is so balanced against local communities and you know we need to work with support and work with our communities many of whom we represent and that is our task here and it's the local planning authority it is keeping that balance fair between the statutory requirements of the law and you must remember that planning is a statutory process that only has you know as councillors we have a tiny bit at the end you know that we can actually have a say on you know 98. something percent of the planning applications now are decided by delegation and officers and we're left as councillors with that tiny bit at the end and you know and not wishing wishing to lose the support of the administration but that has got worse over the last three years in that with the terms of reference changes you know that and the the stuff that councillors and parishes can now bring to committee declining that is being marginalised even more and it's difficult to lecture the government on changes in the reforms when we're not able to support that by what the administration has done itself in this authority so I'm dead in favour of local communities having the support that they need particularly from the local planning authority and us in protecting this tiny bit of democracy at the end of the statutory process that is planning and I just think it's a really bad mistake to leave working with developers in there instead of working with communities and that's what I was going to say on this. Thank you councillor Wright can I just check when I mentioned councillor Howell before did you say no you hadn't asked okay thank you so it's councillor Cathcart I think probably on the substantive motion yeah I agree no we're talking about the amendment at the moment councillor Cathcart oh wait there's not I thought there was a choice you could even speak on the amendment no but you'd have to wait to speak under the okay thank you councillor van der Veijer did you wish to speak to the amendment I wish to speak to the amendment thank you thank you very much yes I well I certainly sympathise with it with sentiments expressed by the speakers I'm in favor of the amendment so far I think there has been a misunderstanding developers are involved in the planning process we do work with developers now as councillor Wright was saying we do that so now and we have to in the future and what this this is the original motion is saying is that we need to have more power for communities in that relationship that relationship is not going to go away we can't escape from it and the the the power for the communities these we focused on things like shaping the local areas which is what this is about so I think this is based on a misunderstanding of the of the original motion so I think the the the amendment actually reduces the weight of the thank you councillor van der Veijer the next speaker is councillor Richard Dr. Richard Williams thank you chair I'm a bit complex now after what councillor van der Veijer has just said because I don't in some way don't accept the amendment then if you're not suggesting that local that the developers aren't important and you don't expect communities to work with them bunch of information I was saying the contract I do expect communities to work with them but communities need to have more power initially local communities need to be empowered which is what this original motion says okay um so um how then how are you going to empower them if you want to empower local communities I just ask you councillor Dr. Richard Williams please address your uh points to me the chair and then we will avoid a conversation between you and councillor van der Veijer thank you fair point thank you chair thank you chair fair point okay so via you chair or just a general question um one of my concerns about the original motion is it calls for um communities to work with developers and I would ask how um councillor Roberts has already said there is an imbalance of power that is the fundamental problem with developers they don't have any incentive to listen to local communities because they they just want to be lovely nice people they want to maximize their profits and they will listen or they will appear to listen to the extent that they think it will help them to get their planning application through and damp down local opposition but there is no incentive to work with um local uh communities in a meaningful way so how are you going to empower them you're going to abolish the role of the local planning authority and give complete discretion to parish councils um to decide planning applications that would certainly give um some uh local communities some power um to deal with um developers and to work meaningfully with them because they have to um so I'm unclear as to what actually you intend by the original motion um I do think the amendment is actually much more reflective of the overall objective of your motions which actually I fundamentally um agree with thank you councillor Williams uh all right our next speaker is councillor Claire Daunton councillor Claire Daunton did you wish to speak oh okay my for once my trusty vice chair has missed identifying uh councillor Milnes I just find it very interesting councillor Milnes do bring your microphone a little closer please thank you could I also just in general could I ask members when they speak to avoid doing this because it blocks the microphone from your voice thank you I hope you can hear me now thank you good thank you oh it's just a bit rich to hear our Tory colleagues complaining of the role of developers in planning I just cite dinner with Jen rick and I the we are trying our best and put a motion here that signals are in our reservation with a new planning uh white paper and proposals before us and we all seem to actually agree actually so this is really just a silly time wasting uh exercise that isn't actually adding anything to the debate because the fundamental explanation chairman 15.14 thank you chairman um I would I would be short but this is not a silly amendment this says working with developers we here as elected councillors who yes serve a different party to the one that councillor Milnes but we are not calling for your elected members is not anything to do with accuracy are you referring to another rule of debate no I'm set the personal explanation thank you and it was said that it's a silly amendment just to drag time I'm personally explaining that as elected members we're entitled to raise our concerns and have been heard thank you thank you do carry on councillor Milnes I've made I've made my point with I've told you against this so if you've made your point that's great thank you councillor Bettson I believe you'd like to take a have a question thank you councillor Bettson do go ahead thank you chair um I um would welcome the um amendment because taking into consideration um the developments at Kanborn business park I would give an example and and to councillor Milnes perhaps he's not aware of this on the 8th of July the Kanborn town council wrote a letter to the leader councillor Bridget Smith I won't read the whole thing I'm sure she has either shared it or not shared it but I would just draw your attention to a few um mentions in paragraph two that the involvement of Kanborn town council has been marginalised in the development of west Kanborn the planning applications are usually sent to them for information only rather than for consultation and Kanborn town council feels sidelined they would hope that for Kanborn business park that the town council is fully involved and engaged in all the development plans quote this would bolster local democracy ensuring grassroots needs are being heard and joined the business park to the body of Kanborn preventing it becoming a rejected appendage so I feel that the amendment that has been uh refused and that is their right is a shame because we do want to empower our local communities to be heard by us the local planning um authority and not have the local authority be sidelined the grassroots and the residents that we are meant to be providing for thank you chair thank you councillor Bettson I don't think we have any further speakers on the amendment yeah no exactly no no further speakers before the second uh oh sorry yes okay do go ahead councillor Hawkins I'll be very brief thank you chair to answer councillor Richard uh Dr Williams sorry councillor Dr Richard Williams to answer your question that is exactly what this motion is about it is asking the government to give us the excuse me and councillor excuse me councillor Hawkins could councillor Heather Williams not interrupt another speaker can we just provide consistency I would can we ask councillor Hawkins to complete what she wanted to say chair I've said my bit it's exactly what we're asking that the government gives communities the power that balances the power that developers have already symbols can I suggest that we go to the vote can I just chair apply we're going to go to the vote on the amendment in other words whether we accept the amendment which was up on the screen until recently yes it would be helpful could just one moment councillor Daunton did you want to speak no her microphone was on her microphone was on can we we just uh vote on this amendment so the vote will be taken if you vote to act so he can immediately make £10 donation to the chairman's donation thank you let's go to the vote on this if you accept the amendment press green if you register yourself as president if you oppose the amendment press the red button and if you wish to abstain press the yellow button you have to register yourself first on the blue button and then indicate whether you wish to vote for green red against or yellow abstain can I just check has everybody voted good and there is the presentation so the amendment the amendment falls because we have eight votes for the amendment 16 votes against the amendment and one abstention so the amendment falls so we go back to the substantive and I'm going to go back to councillor Cathcart because he wished to speak on the substantive if you could excuse me I can't you've only got two minutes left so just just one moment councillor Cathcart can I just check did councillor Bygot vote get registered good thank you okay so councillor Cathcart would you like to speak briefly briefly yeah I support quite a lot of this my only problem is oh the issue where it says we have a voice you can have a voice and people won't listen to you I prefer a slightly stronger well considerably stronger clarification something along the lines of that local authorities will be able to continue to determine planning applications in a similar way to what they do at the moment I know it's not I know it's not on in the government's intention to do that but the problem is when we have the if our only comment is at local plan stage a huge amount of change between the local plan to the vote so that we can actually get this matter dealt with before we run out of time please um councillor Cathcart thank you for your comment does anybody else wish to speak we have two more minutes before we wish to go to the vote councillor Bygot thank you chairman so I'm happy to support the the motion the original substantive motion but I think a lot of this is speculation because although we've all written into consultation we've made a number of different points we don't actually there isn't a draft text to the legislation we don't actually know that they're going to take away people's right to objective individual applications I think it's very important that we send a strong signal to the government that they retain that right for the people and that's why I believe we should support this motion thank you councillor Bygot now does anybody object if I go to the vote good okay let's go to the vote then so in this case we are voting on the substantive motion sorry just one moment I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm sorry the time is up it was 1732 I'd apologize we haven't got time I'm afraid to take your summing up councillor Halings I do apologize it's only one is allowed or we can't sorry this is the point point of order we can excuse me one moment councillor Williams we can't take just one moment councillor Williams will you just wait while I clarify 15.12 would you please wait while I'm prepared to listen to you but would you please listen to me I'm saying that we are allowed to take the proposals summing up after we run out of time councillor Heather Williams what would you want to say point of order councillor Kakkar I believe was moving an amendment and then he was intercepted without opportunity and then other speakers will have to speak if he does still wish to do it I'm just standing up his rights if he still wishes to go on second yes councillor Kathar expressed a wish for a stronger wording but he did not that is like I'm just wondering whether the proposal of motion would consider strengthening a bit in order we can't do that at this stage councillor Kathar because we have run out of time at 30 minutes we can no longer take any debate or any further amendments all we can do after 1732 is to go back to the proposer of the motion and I'll invite her to sum up thank you no I'm sorry yes we can vote we can we just let me just take the wording it is that we have a maximum of 30 minutes for each motion to be moved seconded and debated after which we stop and then the mover of the original motion helped shall have the right of reply before the motion or amended or amendment is put to the vote so that's why I'm saying after 1732 we go back to the proposer for a summing up and then we vote yeah great thank you very much okay so councillor Haley's thank you and I won't take that time can I just ask councillor Nigel Kathar to turn his microphone off please and I'm sorry councillor Kathar but we um had to curtail that councillor Haley's do carry on with your summing up of the substantive motion yes and I would just like to say for those that have most support for the you know the overall spirit and principle of the substantive motion to make sure that our voices heard and absolutely I tried to word it that would we don't know yet so it's about would remove that's the kind of wording that's in there and to reassure councillor Kathar that actually in it is only talking about the community's voice not the local authority in the wording that second wording so I didn't think through local authority there you're absolutely right what we're trying to protect as well is local authority statutory rights as well but it's but that's not here what's in the second part of it is about the community voice that's where it's voice it's not local authority voice but you know councillor Kathar no okay and so therefore in summing it up I would just say I would hope I would I would like it not excuse me can I just ask everybody else in the room to be quiet well councillor Pippa Haley's is summing up thank you and it shouldn't be in a conversation I should have just explained how it came back sorry and so yeah and I don't want it to turn into you know something which is another motion which may be about how the local authority performs this is about our basic ability to continue providing that voice for local communities in terms of the way that the planning reforms are going I hope you can support that that motion there thank you very much thank you councillor Haley's let us now go to the vote so first of all register yourself on the blue button then indicate with the green if you wish to vote four with the red if you wish to vote against and with the yellow if you wish to abstain has everybody voted I has is everybody sure they if you have if your vote has been registered your microphone should show only your vote either red or green or whatever on the bottom oh you're not voting at all okay in which case I think those numbers are right okay 26 of us in the room 25 have voted four and there is one who is not voting at all thank you you so that motion is carried thank you very much uh with that thank you very much everyone uh I would just remind you that we are on item 15 can somebody just tell me how many hours we've been going and whether we need to no okay right uh so 15 is the chair's engagements as itemized on our agenda I attended on the night of July the RAF Alcunbury wing commander's welcome back reception this was after pandemic at which the wing commander was actually saying goodbye because he's leaving uh from his term of office uh was it a nice reception it's lovely good was it nice to be out in the world again it was very nice to see all the people from RAF Alcunbury again thank you and the USAF 501st wing support command item 16 uh I refer to our legal advisor the chair members will see within the report that there is a an exempt report at agenda item at 17 and on reconsideration what we would propose is that members do not need to go into closed session for the consideration of the report which is at pages 89 to 94 however if members did want to discuss the business case from page 95 onwards or ask any questions on the business case we would request that members go into confidential session thank you so um so uh I believe councillor bachelor is wishing to present this paper councillor bachelor uh thank you chair yes uh I'm presenting this as the um lead member for housing as housing has a vertical responsibility for ermine street business so you've got business plan before you um ermine street is our market rental housing company we review this annually and this is the current plan it was presented to the ermine street board on december 2020 and agreed by cabinet in march 2021 ermine street is now seen within the council as a close partner to our housing department rather than just an investment vehicle it concentrates on inquiring stock for rental within the investment area which is the gate greater cambridge commuting area as identified in the cams of peter borough independent economic review which does include peter borough recently they have acquired some houses in cambourne to be used as houses of multiple occupancy and are let by uh shire homes our other housing company uh there's a let for temporary accommodation this helps to reduce our need to use bed and breakfast accommodation in the council the business plan review gives the company an opportunity to review the trading over the year adjusts the budgets and reexamine the assumptions the bad debt provision and void loss assumptions have been changed because of the coded pandemic which has had an impact on rent arrears of void loss over the past year fortunately in the short term this will not have an adverse effect on the financial performance of the company and in fact in recent months that situation has improved significantly the current position today is that the company has acquired 470 properties and 29 in the pipeline totaling 499 if all the pipeline progressed to completion this would leave one to be acquired during the remainder of 2021 to achieve the target of 500 properties which were set back in 2015 any future expansion in the form of additional housing beyond the 500 properties will be subject to further agreement from the council with an agreement about future loan terms and rates the company's work will benefit the company of a council by around 3.43 million pounds in interest payments in this year the council commissioned an options appraisal from Savills last year to consider future options once the target of 500 homes has been achieved the report recommended that the company be allowed to expand to the original target of 500 homes and then the council will take stock and decide on future investment as well as buying homes to let Irmin street takes ministry of defense homes typically on five year leases improves them if necessary and rents them out they currently have three lease arrangements in place with the defense infrastructure organization these are at water beach basing born and brampton all leases have been reviewed and extended for another five years and the number of units increased by six in water beach five in basing born and 36 in brampton bringing the total under the lease arrangements to 190 properties the head of housing and head of Irmin street meet monthly with myself and councillor john williams to discuss the acquisition progress the future strategy and the possibility of future developments within the council this version of the business plan is to be received by full council as the sole shareholder in the company and the recommendation is that council receives the plan for information thank you chair thank you councillor bachelor um can i ask uh if there is a seconder thank you councillor williams did you would you would you like to wait to speak or do you like to speak now i reserve my right to speak thank you councillor williams i understand councillor fame may wish to speak thank you i don't wish to speak in the debate just as council may recall i was asked to take on direction of Irmin street i'm not this moment director but i don't propose to take part in the debate or debate thank you councillor fame we have other requests to speak councillor howell thank you chairman um just a couple of questions if you don't mind them to councillor bachelor i'm glad to see the housing stock is expanding i also remember the people quite concerned that when the Irmin street housing were going to be purchasing houses in peterborough which they thought was a long way away i noticed that we've gone slightly further than peterborough in now in Leeds um can i just ask please um is that a one offer that something that is going to be done in the future and as i said at the time let's see what happens when that goes um with regards to the houses and that we directly own may i ask please and i appreciate you might not know the answer directly how we how often and when do we check on these houses uh and um that also um i have no over i know of um an Irmin street house where the tenant where the tenant is um shall we say disrupting a little bit the other tenants nearby um there seems to be no real the i was told method of bringing their concerns to Irmin street housing could i ask please if that could be clarified in the future not now and i think that's excellent news with regards to the leases the 190 houses that's absolutely superb and well thank you councillor howl um councillor bachelor can i just remind you i'm sure we were aware that we need to respond in equally as neutral terms so that we don't get into the aspects which would need to be dealt with in confidential session thank you councillor bachelor yeah thank you very much um yes the we have uh or they have properties in Nottingham Leeds uh these these are brought about three years ago before we changed the policy to only uh by within um commuter this distance um the the distance ones and quite a few a few of our houses around are actually subcontracted to uh agents to um manage them you know suddenly the ones in Nottingham and Leeds that we have that situation um we do have quite a lot of properties in in Peterborough but i wouldn't confuse those with the issues about um putting homeless people in them that that's an issue for the housing department and it is not a part of Irmin streets activities and apart from that i'm glad he welcomes the money and you know uh to recognize that this is a multi-party operation really so you know the conservators had the credit of actually setting this up obviously in the first place and it's you're one of the great successes here i think so yeah well done to us all thank you councillor chairman i asked for two questions i'm happy to have a written response later on that's one of those things okay i'll i'll speak to you later on thank you thank you very much uh councillor right thank you chairman and through you chair could i ask councillor bachelor is he a director of Irmin street councillor no i was i was a director of Irmin street when i was appointed the housing pose that's that that's quite helpful and my question is a process one really no when Irmin streets business case is presented to this council it is a standalone company it's not part of this council and it should be the directors of Irmin street presenting just what you've given to us so my you know my question is we don't cock it up let's make sure we do the process is right and it should be the director and your friend as directors of that company presenting this business case to us as the independent council to adjudicate on um and you know how you wish to just iron that out for the future i don't know but uh that would be my concern thank you councillor right um councillor roberts thank you madam chairman um and through you madam chairman um i was one of those all those years ago six years ago that i was actually a little bit wary of the route that we were going down i'm sure mark mark is remembering that you're all going drunk and yeah yeah yeah um and i think you know at least i've been proven wrong and that's okay because it's been proven um that it's worked however um you know we ought to give thanks to actually then the conservative group who this idea came from um and saw it through and resolved to have 500 which we are just about to to get to i am concerned however that we don't appear to be doing an awful lot um for our own residents within this list um and to hear and see that leads is down and lester and nottingham um i would have been far happier if it had been south of it comes villages which seemingly other than pathworth isn't very much down here so you know it's down and thanks to the conservative group that we've got this um organization that is is working and is being successful so thanks to them i hope the rest of you agree if you can bear to and um you know i would just like to say that we need the problem of course for here is that the properties are overvalued in south cambridge uh bricks and mortar are overvalued um when you look at the price average price the properties and leads against what we are doing um this is where this is where all this uh development that we're doing is proving such a failure because the prices aren't going down here they're rising and they're rising horrifically um gosh good news for the um estate agents and the builders uh but not very much good news for anybody that we represent who's in need of a house that they can actually afford and can't afford to buy and they're looking to rent so i i think we've got still quite a lot of work to do on this um but let's hope it moves in the net right down thank you councillor roberts uh thank you chairman and i'm one of many in this room who wasn't here when um and street originally got set up um and but i'm sure that uh the words that have been said today are are appreciated by those who may not be sat here in the chamber with us but they were part of it um and i'd say it's also a really good example where we can make investments in things that we know and understand and use skills from our officers currently in the services that we do and put it to good effect um and i think that's what's been done here and i would also chairman like to thank officers who looked again at the exclusion of press and public and and did take in on board the concerns that i am like brave have raised so thank you very much for that officer thank you councillor williams uh councillor john williams would you like to speak a seconder just like to um basically add my uh thanks to um the staff of ermine street um for the way of they have conducted themselves in very difficult circumstances over the past year because of the pandemic um they have managed to um that you know that we did have um a number of um bad debts but actually through their hard work uh we are seeing that improving all the time um since this report was uh produced and i think by focusing on an investment area that's given ermine street a focus and a purpose and enabled us to use them as part of our housing strategy for those living and working in south camps because although it does cover peter birth of course we know from the travel to work area that there are people living in peter who work in south camps so so there is a connection there um we did this because we were concerned about purchasing properties in leeds and nottingham um which was which was done under the previous you know guidelines by the previous administration but now that we have defined the area in which they are to invest we are seeing them as i say providing homes for those who work here and also how does a multiple occupation for single people which was was not being done before so but i do thank everyone in ermine street for the efforts that they put in this past year in very difficult trading circumstances thank you very much councillor williams uh council bachelor would you like to come back as proposer thank you very much uh chair just to be brief um this is a a good business um which is contributing very significantly um to our coffers here um we need to be thinking you know carefully about where we go from here um at the moment we're just coming to our 500 um so that that decision will have to be taken in next few months about whether we continue or not um i can't actually finish without the temptation of noting councillor roberts is a statement that she had been proven wrong in all the years that i've sat opposite councillor roberts this is the first time ever if anybody would like to minute thank you thank you so so chair the world is changing obviously okay thank you councillor bachelor can i ask then uh it sounds as though broadly speaking um people are in approval we have noted that councillor fein is not going to vote can i just um have an indication as to whether people are happy to take this by affirmation very very lovely with the exception of councillor fein thank you and so uh at just three minutes to six i will bring this meeting to a close thank you very much for those of you who have turned up thank you very much for those of you who have attended online thank you for respecting the covid precautions that our democratic services officers have worked so hard to put in place to keep us safe thank you very much thank you chair thank you goodbye so members before we leave the room i just wanted to remind you that our next meeting is on the 23rd of september 2021