 Good early evening, everyone. My name's Ellen Hyde-Pace. I use she, her pronouns. I'm a proud alum of the class of 1981. And I'm president of your Alumni Association. Our work at the Association is all about providing meaningful opportunities for connections among the members of the Mount Holyoke community. We're thrilled that so many of you are present today for a very special event. Approximately 300 of us in attendance. And even better, 50 students. Before the conversation begins, I want to give very sincere thanks to all who contributed to the success of today's event. College and Association staff, alum club organizers, especially New York and DC, and those here at the theater. We're very grateful for your efforts leading to this moment. It's quite a busy time for alums in New York City. Next weekend is the traditional Vespers concert at St. Bartholomew's Church. You can visit the events calendar on the Mount Holyoke website or the New York City club website to purchase tickets. There are still some available. I'm now honored to introduce today's speaking program. At the outset of her presidency, Interim President Beverly Daniel Tatum kicked off this powerful initiative, shining a light on the accomplishments of our alums and demonstrating the significance of an intellectually adventurous Mount Holyoke education, the launching leadership series. We encourage everyone to take a look on the Mount Holyoke website to explore the conversations that have already taken place. While all the conversations to date have occurred on campus with live student audiences, how exciting it is for us all to be gathered on Broadway today for the special off-campus edition. Please join me in offering a warm welcome to our two distinguished Mount Holyoke alum participants, writer of top dog underdog Susan Lori Parks, class of 1985, and producer Debra Martin Chase, class of 1977, who have brought this play to Broadway for its 20th anniversary season. Thank you, Debra, for thinking of Mount Holyoke and reaching out and helping to organize this event. And thank you, Susan Lori, for a very powerful experience today. Very, very impressive. I will now turn it over to Beverly and hand the microphone over to the participants. Thank you very much. Great. Thank you so much, Ellen. And thank you all for being here. It is very, very exciting. And we have a special additional treat for as part of this talk back. We have been joined by the award-winning director, Kenny Leon, and also by Tony award-winning LaShonza, who is co-producer. LaShonza is my producers on this together. But she's like a fabulous Tony-winning actress. Y'all know. Happy to be here. So as you can imagine, I've got a lot of questions for Susan Lori and for Debra. But we do have this special moment just a few minutes with the director. Let me just say, I spent 13 years as president of Spelman College in Atlanta, Georgia. And Spelman College is right next door to Clark Atlanta University. And Kenny Leon is a very proud alum of Clark Atlanta and is certainly well known for many productions in Atlanta, many of which came from Atlanta to Broadway. And certainly, I was excited to look up and see that Kenny, in fact, was the director of this fabulous show. So before he and LaShonza excused themselves, we're going to ask just one question. Why Top Dog, Under Dog? Kenny, you have so many opportunities. Why did you want to do Susan Lori Park's play today? Thank you, Madam President. Ah. First, Susan Lori Parks, SLP, the greatness that is Susan Lori Parks. That's why one does this play. Secondly, when you have Corey Hawkins and Yaya Matines, the second, doesn't get better. And then lastly, after you go through two and a half years of COVID and you start paying attention to what's happening in the world or what's not happening in the world, our disconnection from each other, our disconnection from community, our loss of spirituality, our failure to understand where we are and where we're going, this play is the perfect play to address that. I didn't see the play 20 years ago. But every day with our rehearsals, we started with what's happening in the last 24 hours? What did you see? And so often, artists are walking through the world and they don't look at the world. We're supposed to report on what's happening in the world. So every day we would talk about what's missing in the world. And so what you see is the result of that in this play. You see what's missing in the world. The last image of the play, one man on the floor, dead physically, another one living, but dead. And that last photo is God taking a picture of us to say, how you like that? So after COVID, coming back, this is the play. And now you guys say it was 50 folks from 50 students. I want to know where the hell are the rest of the students? And I'll let you go. But the greatest thing for me is to stand out and watch audiences line up to go to the show. But it warms my heart to see 18, 19, 20-year-olds standing in line to see Southern because during COVID, we sort of said, we're not going to spend our time for stuff that don't make sense to us. So the fact that you young folks find your way into theater that means that even though it was written 20 years ago, Susan Lord Parks wrote this 20 years ago. Spiritually it came to her and she put pen to paper and it met this production 20 years later. And I hope it has impact on you and hope that impact on the world. I really thank my producers. They're the best in the world. And Madam President, just thank you for what you continue to do. And just know that it's cross-generational, y'all. I know a lot of you young folks, you're like, we want to burn some things down. We got better answers and you're in my way. But the truth is, we all need each other. And with this production, you got a 60-year-old director. You got two actors in the 20s. We cover it all. You got a playwright at all of us at different ages. And I always say, I did hairspray live for television. And one thing I said about hairspray live is like it had somebody who was 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 at every age in there. And at every age, we all have something to uniquely give to each other, which is why when I see my three-year-old granddaughter, I say, let her be three. She's only going to be three once. When someone is 20, let them be 20. But get inside their brain. What do they have to say? Somebody is, I sit down, Harry Belafonte, and he's like, 95. It's like, I want to sit down and listen to Mr. Belafonte. So just remember that it's cross-generational. We need all of us need each other. Listen to your mom sometimes. They don't know everything, but they know some things. And lastly, I would say, I tell my daughter, it says, you're smarter than I am. No, I'm not. Yes, you are. You're smarter than I am. But I have wisdom. I got 30 years on you. So what you know, but be wise. I thank you for being here. I love you, and I believe. I believe in the younger generation. I believe in you, guys. I believe in you. I believe in you. We need you. I love you. Thank you so much, Kenny. Hi, just want to say thank you all for being here today and seeing this magnificent production. The gentlemen, I thought, were on fire today. But I just wanted to say a couple words to you. I want to first thank Felida Granby and her group, the Herlach Music Theater Lovers, and the Lynx, who have here, are also here in the audience. I want to thank you all for coming. And as a producer, I just wanted to, along with my brilliant Deborah Martin Chase, I love being able to say that I'm co-producing with Deborah Martin Chase. I love to be able to say that. I love to be able to say that. It's just a thrill to be able to be a part of this dynamic production that was written by a beautiful woman. And the fact that she was able to bring her words, like Kenny said, through her into this current time and how it resonates with so many of us today, it's just remarkable. And it lets you know the power of theater and the power of those of us that support theater. And being to exchange this live experience with you as well is just wonderful, because we can't do it without the audience. So thank you all for being here. Well, it was a delight, of course, to have our bonus guests. But now we're going to focus on our two alums here. So I am really just wanting to start by a little bit of introduction. If you read the play, Bill, you learned a lot about Susan Laurie Parks. And you know that this play, Top Dog, Under Dog, won the Pulitzer Prize in 2002. And she was the first African-American playwright to win the Pulitzer Prize, woman playwright, to win the Pulitzer Prize. Yeah, first black woman to win the Pulitzer for drama. And many other accolades have come since then. You might have read a very in-depth profile in the New York Times talking about the fact that she's got four shows going on at once. Three world premieres and a revival, all happening right now. So we are, Susan Laurie is often referred to as one of the greatest playwrights of her generation, and we are really excited to be able to claim you. Very, very excited to be able to claim you. Deborah Martin Chase is a trailblazer in her own right. We, I'm going to tell you that she, so I'm going to say that she's been doing film and TV, and then she branched into theater. And the first theater production she did won a Tony Award. So a Tony Award-winning producer. But she has been known in entertainment as a legend for a long time. She was the first black woman to have a producing deal at a major movie studio, and her films have grossed more than half a billion dollars. She has a deal at Universal Television and executive producer CBS's The Equalizer. Didn't know that. OK. Her numerous credits include Harriet, The Princess Diaries, and Rodgers and Hammerstein's Cinderella. There's more I could tell you about both of them, but I want to just jump right into our conversation. So let's, I'm going to start with Susan Laurie. And I really want you to connect the dots for us. You were an English and German literature major at Mount Holyoke, and it's been widely reported, of course, that you took a class with James Baldwin and that he pointed you in the direction of writing plays. But then what happened? The short version, the thumbnail sketch. I think the most important thing that happened was that I committed myself to doing the work. And I say it like that because I teach at NYU, and a lot of my students, when I say, what do you want to do when you graduate? And they say, I want to get paid. That's not where I was, and that's not where I am now. So I committed myself to doing the work, which is the daily showing up of writing. Writing whatever, whatever. Excuse my language. You've seen the play, whatever the fuck. I spent, I committed myself to doing the work. And that's probably the most important thing that I did. It wasn't about what party can I go to to meet so and so. It wasn't about none of that other, excuse my language, again, bullshit. The most important thing was I showed up at the blank page every day, and this is before everybody had a laptop. So it was a page, it was a notebook, or the blank screen when we all had laptops. And I committed myself to doing the work. And I figured, because I felt that James Baldwin had been such a great teacher, he was a special teacher at Hampshire College at the time, five college thing where you could take a class wherever, he happened to be at Hampshire. And I had at least three great teachers at Mount Holyoke College, Mary McHenry, who passed recently. Yes. Mary McHenry, who was also a Mount Holyoke alum. John Limley, who retired relatively recently, a great English professor. And Leah Glasser, who also retired recently. So great, great, and a whole bunch of other folks who were just absolutely amazing and believed in me and cheered me on. But I was committed to working hard, did not go to grad school because I had had James Baldwin as my teacher. Yes, exactly. And so just came to New York and worked a lot. Yeah, is that OK? Yeah, no, that's it. I'm curious to know, and then we're going to go to Deborah, but I'm curious to know when you came to New York and worked a lot. Obviously, you were writing a lot, but you weren't instantly being produced. So how did you pay your bills? Yeah, I had a series of day jobs. I was a temporary processor, where I typed for people who basically yelled at me. Lawyers and banker, I had jobs in the World Trade Center. I was not obviously not working in it on that day. But worked nine to five, a series of nine to five jobs in which I would save my money. I had a friend, Lori Carlos, who passed relatively recently, who let me rent out a room in her large apartment. I swept floors for theater for the new audience of the theater downtown. I just wanted in. And if they needed someone to help clean up, it was not beneath me. Menial jobs like that were not beneath me. The work that it took was not beneath me. And nothing was sketchy or weird or funky or fucked up like that. No. I'm just talking about cleaning, helping out, passing out programs, typing. No, not that kind of casting couch bullshit. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the basic menial work that it takes to get in the door, to be patient in the powers that be, to not expect to. I graduated from Ohio, as did Wendy Wasserstein. Where's my Broadway production? No. So I just want to emphasize that. And I could go on and on about that. But you get the idea. I was patient in my own ability. I was not the best writer in any of the classes that I took at the time. Not James Baldwin's class, not Leah Glasser's class, none of the class. I was not the best writer. There were women who were getting published in The New Yorker, The Atlantic, and whatnot. I didn't even try. It wasn't interesting to me, quite honestly. I think I loved writing more, though. And I worked harder than they did. Right? I worked, man. Right? And that's the thing. I just would go home and rewrite stuff and rewrite it again and take notes from the professors, you know? I still do. I love my work. I absolutely love my work. And I work my love. Which is when you see the love, when you feel the love coming at you from off this stage, that's what I'm talking about. Yes. It's real. It's real, real. Right? It's not like an intellectual exercise about whatever the fuck. Mm-mm. No. No, it's life. It's us. It's, I love you all. And I want us to move forward together. So. That's what I'm talking about. Thank you. Thank you. So Debra, as I said, you two have a storied career, a long list of accomplishments, and you were a political science major at Mount Holyoke. So how does one get from being a political science major at Mount Holyoke to a film and TV producer? Well, it's interesting. I'm gonna dovetail a lot on what SLP just said, but I, you know, a poly-sci major at Mount Holyoke always loved film and television, always wanted to be involved, but it was like super scary. I didn't know anybody in the business, so I went to law school, right? I went, I remember sitting there and I had USC Film School, Fine Arts Masters, and Harvard Law School, and I applied to Harvard Law School, I went to Harvard Law School, I practiced law for five years, big firms, big corporations, and I was, I was married, I was living in Houston, I was like, the life's so different from, and I just was miserable. And I just finally got to the point in my life, I was turning 30, me, that's a lot, but you know, we'll go through the whole thing. I was, you know, I'd separate, you know, my husband and I were separated because we needed to be, and I had moved to New York, and I was at that point, I was like, I know I have something to contribute to the world, and I was a really good lawyer, but that wasn't it, my heart was not in it. I didn't love it, I wasn't passionate about it, and so I said, I was turning 30, and I was like, I don't wanna wake up now, saying what only if I coulda shoulda, what if. So similarly, I said, I'm gonna bet on myself, bet on my passion, give it my everything. So if I fail, at least I said, and I went into, for two years, Columbia Pictures had an executive development program that was designed to bring people from different disciplines into the movie business. I got paid bupkus, I mean, I could barely pay my rent, I had little savings, and I was effectively like a glorified intern, an executive intern, but it let me transition from practicing law to the movie business, and you were supposed to spend four, six months in four different areas of the company, I ended up spending a year in the legal department because they had an experienced lawyer who was willing to work her butt off, and it was off their books, I learned so much, and then I got to be friends place right time with the new chairman of the company, and he brought me on as his executive assistant, and that was my big break, that was the traditional fair-haired white guy job, and I went with him to all of his meetings, I got to ask any question I wanted to, he was grooming me for this, and at the end of a year, he was ousted in an ugly coup, and he put me on the creative staff at Columbia Pictures, and that was my transition, but like, Susan, Lord, I mean, listen, I was sitting at these meetings, and you know, I'm the only woman, God knows I'm the only black person, and you know, it's all guys, older guys, and invariably somebody would turn to me and say, Tanya, could you give me a cup of coffee? You know, and I, again, I was broke, I was just like, I would go home, but I was like, this is what I want to do, and I had the passion, I had the passion for it, so I just kept, and those days in Hollywood, I mean, you know, I didn't intend it, but I have broken a lot of barriers, just because I got there, and I was like, well, other people are doing this, why can't I do it? I didn't know that as a black woman, nobody had done these things before, so, similar story. So, as Ellen mentioned in the introduction, you know, I've been doing these conversations with alums who've had what I'm gonna call intellectually adventurous career paths, and one of the things we've been talking about is a concept that comes from an interview that another Mount Holyoke alum had, there's a Mount Holyoke alum, Sheila Marcello, very successful businesswoman, who has described something she calls authentic boldness, and I'm just gonna give you her definition. She says, when you bring your truest self to the table, you are able to be bold in your own authenticity, and it seems to me there's lots of evidence of that kind of authentic boldness in your pursuit of your passion, right, whether it was playwriting or producing, and so I'm wondering if your Mount Holyoke experience helped you find or deepen that sense of authentic boldness in any way you might articulate. You wanna go first? Go, go, go. I'm not. No, I mean, I, I, I. Was am, blessed with parents who put no limits on me, that whatever you wanna do, you can do it, we will support you, you know, no limits whatsoever. What Mount Holyoke gave me was just that, just that period of intellectual intensity, and just knowing there's a woman, like we were all, it was all women. So it was, I got used to, I didn't have to stand down for anybody. I didn't have to, you know, because when I got to law school, at that time at Harvard Law School, a fourth of the class was women, so it was very much like the professors weren't calling on you. You know, people that you could, they'd look at you and like, hmm, you know, she got, she didn't get, she didn't have the same background that we did. Whereas at Mount Holyoke, it was like, look, we're all fabulous women. We are fierce, we are strong. The sisterhood, you know, just that, which I went in with, but just the rift affirmation of women, blinking arms and lifting us up together, which I have carried forward throughout my career. Mount Holyoke, it's funny, you know, at one point I transferred to Stanford and I ended up not going. And I think, but, but what I, I say, I probably would have had more distractions at a Stanford, whereas at Mount Holyoke, and not to say, I mean, I wasn't in my room, just, you know, I went out. I mean, I was like, but it was, I was able to focus during the week. Remember, we would go in pajamas to class, right? I mean, it's like, you know, you still do that? Yes, you know, cause it was like, you know, hat on in the cold, go to class, you know, go to, so you could really just live in the education and in again, the sisterhood. And it, so when I got out, I wasn't afraid. I didn't, as a woman of pushing and, you know, demanding what I needed for me. And I think, you know, in those days in particular, you didn't always get that at a, at a co-ed institution. I listen to what you say and they say, yeah, now that, now I know what I'm gonna say. No, but it's all right, all that, what Debra says. And when I started college at Mount Holyoke, so as a first year, I was told in high school, which was a co-ed predominantly white institution in Maryland where my family lived at the time. Maryland? Predominantly white institute, which are you? Yay, it's all good. I think Maryland, I think it was the Maryland. It's all good. Oh, Maryland, I, that, right, right. And all of us here, regardless of who we are, what we look like or whatever, we survived. And all of us here, regardless of whatever, have been chosen and are prized. And we should know that. So it's deeper than, then, you know, right? It's deeper than the surface. But I've been told by a very well-meaning teacher, and I've told this story before, a very well-meaning English teacher that I should not become a writer because I was a poor speller back in the days before spell check happened. No, this is, obviously you haven't heard the story. Anyway, it's an old story. So back in the days, you know, and they thought they were doing me a favor, saving me from the horrors of failure, my parents, different from yours, they grew up in the segregated South and my father grew up very poor. They worried, they worried. And when I told them, you know, I'm gonna be a writer, it was, they were worried, you know. And so what Mount Holyoke, fast forward to Mount Holyoke, what it helped, I started out as a chemistry major. That's where I started at Mount Holyoke and became an English major later on because of the love that I felt from the professors and of the literature. And one thing that I can say that Mount Holyoke helped me with is it helped me hear myself. And that, because I remember, I was in, what was it, North Rocky, South Rocky, whichever dorm was mine. Right, the Rockies, okay? I was sitting in the Rockies, whichever one it was, right? I think it was probably South Rocky and my desk was facing the window and the window was facing the route, whatever the street, what's the road? One foot, right, one 16, right? Okay, it was four o'clock in the afternoon, I had an assignment for my writing class and that was the first time I heard voices. And I was like, whoa, voices like, not like, oh, I'm crazy, but I am a writer. I'm a writer who hears the voice of her soul speaking to her. That was the first time it was at Mount Holyoke and that has never left me. And as a creative, as a writer person in these fields, once you got your voice, they can't touch you, right? And I thank Mount Holyoke for that. That's a fabulous story. Thank you so much. I have one more Mount Holyoke question and then I'm gonna ask a top dog question and then we're gonna open the floor to our audience. So, but the Mount Holyoke question is about Wendy Wasserstein. Yes. So I'm sure many of you know, but in case you don't, Wendy Wasserstein, class of 1971, now the late Wendy Wasserstein, wrote a play, The Heidi Chronicles, which won the Pulitzer Prize in 1989. And I have heard that that name is important to both of you. I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about how she influenced your own experience. For a long, Wendy passed, oh, a while, it feels like a while ago, feels like a while ago. For the longest time, they'd have conferences about women playwrights, right? And on one end, and they'd have a table, you know, and they'd face an audience like y'all. And they'd have on one end, Wendy Wasserstein, because Wendy did plays on Broadway. And the other end, they'd have Susan Laurie Parks, because Susan Laurie Parks did plays like off, off, off, off, off, off, off, off, off Broadway. And we'd always lean over the table, we'd always look at each other and wave. Because we knew that we had come from the same place, Mount Holyoke. We were like, yeah. We know, we are the ends. We are the alpha and the omega of this, right? But that she was on Broadway very much, she did plays everywhere, but very much a player who did a lot of work on Broadway. And she kicked down some doors. And whenever anybody, it's like, who says it? Oh, I'm gonna misquote. Maybe Audra Lord said, whenever one of my sisters is not free for any reason, then I'm not free. Maybe it's Audra, no, no, no. But anyway, whenever somebody kicks down a door, whatever they look like, they are also kicking down the door for you. And when Wendy started kicking down doors, I'm like, doors are opening for me too. I can't see them yet, you know? But I know because Wendy's out there fighting the fight. And even though I don't think she'd say she's fighting them for Susan Lawrence, of course not. But I felt that she was helping me get to where I wanted to go. So I appreciate her greatly. Thank you. I was a trustee of the college for eight years until May 2019. And one of my, one of the many things that was important to me then, important to me now, is that the college, honor, recognize, and frankly just take advantage of the fact that we have two of the greatest, most acclaimed female playwrights of the 20th century as alums. I mean, and so I feel like some, so I just want to make sure that we value our theater tradition. And that in the, you know, STEM is super important and there's so many important initiatives at the college. And God knows I know from eight years on the board, that you know, there's a push and pull for all our resources. But theater should be a priority. Then no, when you have a tradition and a legacy like this, you don't let it go. Thank you, thank you. So I said I have one more question and it is about Top Dog, Underdog. So as we heard Kenny say, you know, this was a play I did see it 20 years ago when it first came out and I had the opportunity to see it here in New York and Broadway and also, you know, fast forward 20 years here we are again and yet we're living in a very different social context. All of that. I'm curious, in some ways this question is for you, Deborah. What was it about this play that you said, you know, I'm just getting into production and, you know, theatrical production. I want to do this one. What was it? Several elements. One, I saw the original Top Dog on Broadway with Jeffrey Wright and most deaf and so, you know, was blown away and, you know, loved the play and it's important and relevant. Two, you know, sadly, and still speaks, is even more relevant today than it was then, right? Sadly, but true. And so, you know, truth and message are really important for me in the things that I work with. Three, you know, SLP supporting a strong, influential, powerful, accomplished black woman who's just, you know, like in your prime but you have so much more to give. So we just want to make sure that she continues to be positioned as she should be. And honestly, the production team here, David Stone, our lead producer, and Mark Platt, have been unbelievably generous and supportive of LaShawn's and I as new, I don't know if you know, this is like Tony-winning actress, The Color Purple, okay? She was just nominated for... Trouble in mind. I mean, she's like badass. And she and David has helped her add producer to her portfolio. And they have been so, they wanted us to learn and to really, that's their way of, as you know what I mean, David Stone and Mark Platt produced Wicked, need I say more, okay? And of the many things. And so we are part of, they're paying it forward. And so to be able to learn from them, support her, work with, I'm no candy for y'all, but this is the first time we've been able to work together. And it just, and then these two amazing actors. So it just the whole package. And what it allowed me to do was I brought my, I brought a group of investors in that many of which are first time, largely African-American. And so, and hopefully they're having a great experience because just to make sure everybody knows, this is the best reviewed play of the season. Yes. Okay? Yes. So that they will stay with me and Lashan's stay with her group so that if you have financial backing, we can continue to bring important, relevant stories to the stage. Great. So now my question relative to Top Dogg and its revival for you Susan Laurie is, you know you wrote that play 20 plus years ago. Is there anything about it that you would say, oh well 20 years later I wanna change it? Oh. Oh. I mean, no, I'm sorry. There was a little thing where we changed a couple things when they talk about the phones, you know. So he says, you give a woman the number of your phone, you're telling her two things. One, that you have a phone, right? That's what she said. In the original 20 years ago, he said one, that you have a home. Because 20 years ago when we gave someone our phone number, it indicated that we had a home, i.e. a landline. So rhythmically as you notice, it's the same. So it stayed in the same group. Tell her that you have a phone. Tell her that you have a home. So didn't change much, but changed that. And, no, no. Yeah, yeah. No, it's good. I mean, it's good. I like it. Well, we like it too. We like it too. No, I mean, it's, I think it's, this is the beauty of a beautifully written piece. Because then you have Yaya and Corey, who are of another generation, who are modern. So they're bringing a different energy, a different spirit to the performances that helps take some writing that is timeless, but really grounded in the moment. And obviously Kenny as well. So, yeah, and definitely. I think this production was fearless about bringing the heart. I mean, you know, I mean, and the difference I would say between the characters of Lincoln and Booth. What's the original production in this one? Right. Yeah, I think that, I mean, for me, the difference is that the culture now has caught up to the play. Because I was telling Barrelier, President Tatum the other day, that one comment, criticism or comment I got from people of all races, ages, whatever, was people were like, well, why didn't you write about a doctor and a lawyer? And why do they have to be, you know, in reduced circumstances? Or, you know, I was like, yeah, I wrote about what I wrote about. If you want to write about a doctor and a lawyer, you can go ahead. Again, once you hear the sound of, once you hear your voice, listen. I'm not like they can't touch you. Let me say this. Once you hear your voice, listen to that voice. Yes. Right? Because it is your precious, precious spirit speaking to you, you know, and everybody, we all got one. It's our birthright, we were all born with it. We sow too much, especially today, choose to be distracted by the interwebs, shopping, sugar, you name it, bullshit. Your voice, your spirit is speaking to you, loudly, beautifully, you know. And so, again, once you start listening to your spirit, listen to it, them, her, him, whatever, pronoun. Whatever, all pronoun, my spirit takes all pronouns. Just saying that. So, you know, okay, but listen to that. So, again, so the critique I got was, why don't you write it, da, da, da, da. Now, everyone understands why I'm writing about these guys in this room. Everyone gets it, because they know, oh, shit. Well, I guess it's time to be honest about what's really going on behind the curtain, behind the beautiful curtain as it rises, you know, so that we can heal all of us, regardless of what we look like. Again, I would always say that because people are like, whoa, is it only for black people? Well, no, hello, no. It's for all of us, goodie, right? I want to pause here and just invite, I'm gonna invite some questions, but before we do that, I just want this audience to join me in appreciating these two women for their, and we have a question right here from Marilyn. Is your name in class here? Yeah. My name is Ajuah. Class of 2024, go Lions. That makes me a blue lion. Also, fun fact, my mom, Thelma Asari was class of 1985, just like you, and she talked to me about you when I told her that I wanted to be your writer, and she was like, oh, that's really funny that you said that. I have the perfect reference. But my question is actually about the play, about Top Dog, Under Dog. Why the names Lincoln and Booth? Why the entire job that set up, that dramatic set up? And why the idea of their names being a joke? I found it so dramatically interesting and fascinating. I just wondered how you came up with that idea and why? Okay, great. No, cool, that's a great question. I'm trying to sort of condense all my answers, because the way I write is I write from the spirit. This is, okay, so the spirit comes from the left, my left, on my arm, you'll see it says, in Sanskrit, forgive my pronunciation, ishvara pranam banani va, which means submit your will to the will of the spirit. So that's my whole thing. So the idea of having an idea, like an intellectual notion that maybe if I do A, then it will lead to B, then C, I don't write like that. Haven't yet. Might tomorrow have not yet been writing since the 70s. So you never know. So I don't organize my creative thoughts in that manner. I listen, I receive, and look, she's on the left, see, spirit, on the left, right? I receive, and I do my best to follow, right? So the idea of the writing of a character named Lincoln, who was a black man who was a Lincoln impersonator, started with a play called The America Play that I wrote in 1994, something like that. Thought I was done with that character, and then this guy showed up. Thought, oh, I've written a play about a Lincoln impersonator already, and then this guy showed up. So I wasn't done with that character. Different guy, different play, different circumstances, but same job, and an added bonus, this guy's name was Lincoln. What does that mean for a character? When he says, when Lincoln, the character Lincoln, says in the play, I'm a brother playing Lincoln. It's a stretch for anyone's imagination, but every day I put on this shit and I make it work, and it works because I make it work. This shit is hard, but I make it work. What is he talking about? He's talking about just the being of being, the it of being alive, that every day I put on this shit and she puts on, you know, and we put on our stuff and we walk out the door and we do what we gotta do to whatever, and that's hard. Being is hard. It's really hard. It takes a lot of work, right? Now was I thinking of that idea when I wrote the play? No, I was listening to the spirit, see what I mean? So, and a lot of writers like this, the ideas and the essays about the writing come way after the writing comes, right? The writing comes first, okay? And I find that my writing is very rich if I don't, you know, the spirit says, okay, you got two brothers, Lincoln and Booth, but I'm bum, and I said, well, what do you mean? Excuse me, could you explain that, please? I'm writing, two brothers, Lincoln and Booth, okay, here we go, okay? I don't ask any questions. When the spirit is talking, now listen. I think James Baldwin taught me that. When the spirit's talking, listen. We're gonna try to... Hello? Hi, may I make a comment, please? Or can we move on, or should we move on? I think because we have to take turns, let's let somebody else have a turn. There's a person right in front of you and then we'll come across this way. Hello. I just wanna say like, it's such an honor to just be in your presence, both of you, because I remember five years ago Googling Mount Holyoke and looking at both of your faces and being like, this is the reason I'm gonna come here. And so what a miracle that this is happening. My name is Tywo. Yeah. Shout out to Cheetah Girls, because like, that was a big move, come on now. Yeah. So my question is like, I'm trying to get emotional. Mentorship is so important, and I love that you're constantly mentioning James Baldwin. I would love it if you both could talk about like, what it means to have somebody in your corner, especially after a setback, because that's what I'm going through right now. Like, I am a writer as well, going through a certain setback, and I'm trying to talk positively to myself and about myself, but I think having a mentor in your corner is so important. So can you talk about what, more about like what mentorship has meant to you, what guidance from people like, who are like Wendy, like who are doing the thing that you want to do. Even if just they're a friend who's in a different field, I would love to hear more about mentorship and how, what role that's played in your lives. Thank you. Mentorship has been, was very important to me coming up. And I've been a great mentor, because I believe you have to pay things forward. So, you know, but let's start with, I hear what you're going through. I mean, I got a sense of, you have to believe in yourself. You have to believe, my brother actually, literally this morning sent me a thing where when Brian Wilson of the Beach Boys was in school, he wrote one of the big California girls and his music teacher gave him an F, okay? The song that launched their career, whatever, because he didn't get it. So when you're talking about anything, but particularly when you're talking about the arts, you know, you got to listen to your voice. You know, you should be spending your time as Lori, Susan Lori says, developing that voice, trusting that voice, believing in that voice. The same thing with me. I go into pitch a movie or a TV show. I got a, I need to believe it here, so that when I'm talking to people that may have nothing to do with what it is, I'm selling them on my passion. And I'm saying trust, I trust my gut, so you trust my gut too. So that's a process. Now, what a mentor really should do is to help guide you once you have that, right? Like, is this my right next move? Or because a mentor should have wisdom and have experience and be able to use that to help you with your navigation and decision-making process. And they're very, they are very important. Like I said, I've had great ones. And I know I've been a great mentor to a bunch of people, a lot of people, which fills my heart. Did you have, did you have? No, I just think it's also a couple things. We say in yoga when the student is ready, the teacher will come. So there's that. And I also say, you say, it's great to have someone in your corner, right? Sometimes we think mentor's gonna be really like, I hope I'm not getting this wrong, Athena in the Odyssey, she impersonated mentor and that was a mentor, the mentor, right? Okay, but we think, oh, it's gotta be, James Baldwin, it's gotta be, blah, blah, blah, it's gotta be Debra Martin Chase, someone like that. Look in your corners, who's standing there? That person's in your corner. Don't discount the people who are in your life who might not be famous or named or whatever, right? You got a great team. So really depend on those folks also, in addition to looking for this idealized version, but really lean on the folks who are there and who love you, it's important. Yeah, I wanna add to this actually because there is a psychology professor at Mount Holyoke whose name is Becky Wayling Packard, some of you will know Professor Packard, and she has done research on what she calls composite mentoring. And that composite mentoring is when you are in a situation, maybe you're the only black woman in a place or something, they're not necessarily people like you in the field where you want to be, and sometimes it may seem like you're blazing your own trail, but you can learn something snippets from people. Like, there are students in this audience who are listening to the two of you, may never see either of you again, perhaps, but will take something from this conversation that will be attached and important to something that maybe another person said and can build what Becky calls a composite mentor that helps you find your way. So since we were talking about that, and since she's at Mount Holyoke, I thought I should mention her research on that subject. Oh, yes. Thank you so much for being here and putting on this event to those that organized it. It's just amazing to be sitting next to, like, these alums right here that have so much wisdom. I'm class of 2025, Green Griffins. My name is Angelina Silva Perez, and I just wrapped, or we just wrapped, doing a production of Short Eyes at Mount Holyoke, and my dedicated cast and crew is in this room right now, and my question is, how are you able to tell stories, like top dog, under dog, like Short Eyes, when at times you feel so underrepresented and that stories like that aren't given light? How have you navigated those spaces, especially for writers and producers and students that want to be actors that like me and like other people in this room that want that, and it's hard achieving? It sounds, I mean, you just wrapped. It sounds like you found a way, right? Right? I mean, you're not saying you were trying to do a production and we haven't had luck and, you know? You found a way and build on that, you know? You found a way. I mean, one of my grandmother, foremothers on both sides, their favorite word, they had some of the same favorite words. One of them was resilience. They never met. They had resilience, and to me, it means find a way, find a way. It doesn't mean, you know, eat shit and do whatever the man says. Right? It means find a way. It sounds like you found a way, you know? Also, it means know that you are loved. Also, it means the man ain't on the throne. Right? Okay. So I would just say, you know, continue to find a way. And I, years and years ago, I sat with an esteemed playwright, and they said, they said what they wanted for their career. They wanted to be in every theater. They wanted their work to be in every theater. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And I gave them a quizzical look and they said, well, what do you want? And I said, I want to be great. And not that I was trying to be like somebody. I just, again, listen to your voice. Listen, listen in, listen in, listen without. Work your love. Love is such a strong and beautiful power that I can look at you and say, you're like me. So are you. I don't know, y'all. You too. Not just the people who look like me. Right? They're connected. Yeah. You know? But what, I'm gonna call you President Tate. What Beverly said, what Beverly says. My mother's going, oh, don't. But what Beverly says is that, what is it, boldly authentic, authentic boldness. What a great phrase, authentic boldness. And that's something that Mount Holyoke women have, like, right? That's our thing, yo. Right? That's our thing. Authentic boldness. You know, we're not like, like some of the women who go to the college rhymes with Smith. Sorry, just edit that out, edit that out. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to say that. I didn't mean to say that. But no, this authentic boldness that we have, we are the quiet storm, right? Right? And we know, we know what we know, what we know. We know our thing and we hold it proudly. So just know that you come from that. And I think it's the trees on campus. That's my opinion, I don't know. I just, I just wanna, persistence is everything. I mean, in, I came, I look back on, you know, the many things I've done. Maybe two came together relatively easily. You know, Harriet, six years, just right, 10 years, Cheetah Girls, five years. I mean, that's like pushing a boulder up a hill, two steps forward, step and a half back. You know, so it's not, none of this is easy. And that's why you have to love it. You have to be passionate. You have to know that you have to, for me, it's like, I feel like, well, at this point, I know I've made a difference in the world, and I tell stories that mean something to me, so then I can fight for them. If it's not worth fighting for, it's kinda not worth doing, as far as I'm concerned. I know that our, I know there are hands, but I'm so sorry, we have a strict time limit here. But we do have a special presentation for the two of you, and I want to be sure that we do that before we lose our audience. And we just wanna thank you with great appreciation. These are two very special gifts. Yeah, just the bags. So turn so the audience can see, and I'm gonna tell you about them. Yes, yes. These are prints that were produced in cooperation with the Art Museum of, it is one of the G's Ben's quilts. Yes, yes, there you go. Yes, the artist is Mary Lee Bendolph, one of the G's Ben's quilters, and this particular one is named after Thornton Dahl, the artist, inspired by his work. But this print has never been produced in this way before, so it's a truly unique gift for two truly unique women. We thank you so much. Once again, I wanna thank the Alumni Association for its leadership, for this launching leadership on Broadway. For Deborah, whose idea it was to bring us all together, and there's a special secret, I'm not gonna remember the name, but there is a young alum working on the set, am I right? Costume. Yes, that's the name. 2010. Of course, authentic boldness means you claim what you do. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you all for coming.