 Hello, everyone. Welcome to Mind Pump. In the first half of this episode, we talk about the importance of rest periods and why ignoring them may be hurting your gains as well as other topics. In the second half of the show, we coach four live callers on questions such as can massage therapy benefit my workouts? I'm making great progress in the gym, but is there any way to make it faster? Why are there no rows programmed into phase one of maps anabolic? And I want to be strong and have endurance. How can I train for both? One more thing, we have just hit 20,000 subscribers on our Mind Pump Clips YouTube channel. Our next goal, 30,000. If you haven't already subscribed, help us get there. All right, enjoy the show. All right, let's talk about one of the most underrated factors when it comes to workout programming, rest periods. In fact, what makes lifting weights strength training versus just cardio? Is the rest period. If you did a bunch of exercises with no rest period, even if it was bench press, deadlift squats, overhead presses, but you didn't have rest periods, it's no longer- It's cardio. No longer strength training. It's the rest periods that make the strength training build muscle, just like the weights part. All right. What's your guess on the percentage of people working out in your commercial gyms that don't utilize this? Oh, 60%. Yeah. Oh, I say higher. I mean, it's high. I say higher. No, man. I haven't been in a while though, so I don't know. I think it's way higher. I mean, back in the day it was- You go right now to a commercial gym. Yeah. And I would say, believe it or not, the people strength training in there do pretty good rest periods. Like they actually take rest. Yeah, but that's not what I mean. I mean, and you could always tell somebody who is actually paying attention to this because they either got to stop watch or they're looking up at the clock. Everybody else finds a rest period that they like and they feel comfortable, including ourselves. Oh, they never modify it. Our guilty of this is you find a rest period that works for your way of training, whether that be for strength or hypertrophy or circuitry, whatever it is. And then that becomes your kind of set rest period. And you take the same amount of time in the gym. You get about the same amount of exercises done. Your rest periods look exactly the same and they've been exactly the same for months and potentially years. I would say 90 plus percent of the, because this was used to be one of my favorite ways to change it up for somebody who I would get that would hire me, that had been training consistently for a long time. I agree with you. I would say majority people don't know how to manipulate rest periods, 100%. But they do take, a lot of people do take a rest period, but it's either they take no rest period or in between sets, they're on their phone. Used to be newspapers. I remember people used to be on the newspaper in between sets. Especially the peck deck. Always like some old guy reading up on, yeah, world events. Like what are you doing? No, but you, so generally speaking for strength training, your rest period should be between 30 seconds on the low end to as long as like four minutes on the high end. And that's the range. And then you can play within those ranges to give your body novel stimulus. But you know what's funny? You're mentioning people who don't do that. It's so funny. So yesterday I went to the movies with my kids and believe me, there's a point to this. So we go to the movies, there's this kid working the desk. He's friends with my son. He goes to school with him. So he's like, hey, what's up, buddy? Hey, what's going on? Whatever they talk for a second, we go to the movie. And then I asked my son, I said, is he a wrestler? And he goes, how did you know? That's why I could tell by his posture and the way he's holding himself. Color flower ears. He didn't have color flower ear, but I said I could tell by the way standing. And my son goes, can you tell often? Like what kind of sport or something? I said, not always I said, but sometimes it's obvious. And it just made me think of this conversation. There's this woman who works out I'll paint the picture for you, okay? She's got probably, she's got some like kind of stubborn body fat. You could tell it's stubborn because she works her ass off. So I'd say maybe 15 pounds or so that's kind of stuck to her body. She's works out very, very vigorously, dark circles under the eyes. She does an exercise to an exercise to an exercise to jumping jacks or treadmill. And I see her in there when I work out all the time. And she's got that look on her face. You know that look where you could tell they're drained but stimulated. I mean, how often did you guys see this in gyms with people where all they would have to do is slow their work down, take rest periods, get stronger and they would get the fat would come off and they wouldn't look like they're just running off of caffeine and stimulants. They would look like they're healthy. And I could tell, I saw her walk in, I'm like, I know she's gonna work out and sure enough, that's what she does with her workouts. Well, for the point you're trying to make, I think the same case or argument can be made about the other side too of the power lifter guy who goes in there and puts chalk on his hands for every five, you know, for five minutes before he gets in and does the next set and he's been lifting that way forever. A great advice to add to this tip would be if you're in a plateau, here's a great way to bust your plateau. Don't change anything yet. Grab a stopwatch. Do your normal flow of your workout and just pay attention to what you've naturally kind of gravitated towards as far as rest periods and then go to the other end of the spectrum. So if you're the lady you're giving an example of and she's like, oh my God, I never rest longer than 15 to 30 seconds, she's like super. Then the next time you train or the next training block, let's say for the next month, train with rest periods that are three minutes long and try and challenge yourself by adding more weight to the bar every set. If you're the opposite, you're the power lifter guy or the young kid who likes to rest forever in between or texts for three minutes in between. Go the opposite direction and go short 30 second rest periods for the next four weeks. Those two people that are in plateaus that do that, we'll see a huge difference just from doing that. Just gonna interrupt the patterns. I think we just are all false susceptible to that and it's just one of those things you don't even recognize it. It's the same thing with like even tempo too, like we'll recognize in the gym, somebody that's actually being really intentional about a negative portion of the rep or like holding it and being super controlled and dialed in, that's always impressive to me because it takes that added bit of intuitive focus where they're like intentional focus I should say, where they're actually like taking that on because otherwise we're just gonna do what feels like you always do because it's just, I'm gonna gravitate towards what I wanna do and what I feel like doing which is not always best for you. Now the stopwatch is important because you guessing that you're just changing your rest period almost never works. It's just like diet stuff when you think you, yeah no, track for a little bit first. And it's a very different workout in the sense that it's a different focus, it's a different intent. The weight that you select is gonna be very different. Like if I'm resting three minutes versus 30 seconds, the weight on the bar is way different. Like it's like 50% lighter or less. In fact, my goal when I'm doing short rest periods is to go as light as I can and still make it feel like I'm going heavy. When I'm resting long, now I'm trying to challenge myself with the weight that I'm lifting. So what am I saying here? The challenge with this is the mental piece because we all have a tendency to train in a particular way. And when you change rest periods for some reason is the hardest thing for people to stick to when they make a change. Exercises, I could get people to change. Rep ranges can be challenging too but rest periods are really hard. You take the person who hates resting in between sets, the person who's like, what do I do now? In between sets. You take that person, have them rest three minutes, it's torture. Or you take the person who rests three minutes and you make them do 30 seconds, it's torture. So you gotta have that stopwatch, otherwise it's not gonna happen. It's gotta be a momentum thing, right? For people that don't like resting, it's just like, I have to just stay busy and just keep doing something otherwise it feel like I'm not working. It's crazy. Today's workout program giveaway, MAPS strong. This is a strong man inspired workout program and you can win it for free. Here's how you enter to win. Leave a comment below in the first 24 hours we dropped this episode. Subscribe to this channel and then turn on notifications. If you do all those and we declare you the winner, we will let you know in the comment section and boom, you won MAPS strong. Also, we got a sale going on this month. We took all of our best at home workout programs, MAPS anywhere, MAPS suspension, MAPS prime and the No BS six pack formula. We put them in a bundle called the at home holiday bundle and we discounted the crap out of it. So normally if you did all those programs they would retail for over $330. But right now with this bundle, $99.99 and you get all those programs only in this bundle, only for this month. So if you're interested, I want you to click on the link at the top of the description below to get yourself set up. All right, here comes the show. Anyway, speaking of movies, I went to the movie yesterday. Oh, you did? Yeah, I went to the movies yesterday. I sent you guys a picture of the craziest. You didn't really go see that movie. Did you? No. Oh, I was like, did you really? I was about to say you have no wars, Jays to movies. If you would, I'll give you mad props. Hold on, but for real though, I'll watch it when it's out like on TV. You will watch it. Just to see what's going on. Okay, so here's it. It's like Sharknado. It's going to be in the same class, right? I thought it was a joke. No, it's real. So we went, I went and watched Black Panther, the second Black Panther. Actually pretty good. How was it? It was actually pretty good. It was all right. Yeah, I'm going to check that out. It was almost three hours long. It was, it was pretty good. It wasn't, I wouldn't say it's bad. I wouldn't say it was great. It was all right. But I'm walking through and they have the posters of different movies. And my daughter goes, what? And I look up and the movie, there's a big poster and there's a movie coming out called Cocaine Bear. Now this is not about a drug dealer whose nickname is Cocaine Bear. I bet it's like, it's probably like a town called Cocaine or something. It's not even like, it's not Discovery Channel, it's like a real. Well, hold on a second. I was going to get worse. It didn't appeal to me. I looked at the poster and I'm like, and it's a bear, it's literally a grizzly bear with like cocaine on its snout. So I'm like, what? And then I look at it and it says, based on true events. So I'm like, okay. What? Hold on. So I went on, I watched the trailer. I'm like, this has to be like something that's weird or whatever or maybe it's comedy. No, no, no. It's a bear. Did that really happen? That there's, I guess drug dealers lost like a bunch of kilos of cocaine in the woods. I guess it fell out of a plane. I don't know. No way. And the bear got into the cocaine. And in the movie, the cocaine, the bear is crazy. Like there's clips on the trailer where the bear is like chasing a car. It's like, I love that. This bear is crazy. What do they, what got into it? What? And it's a grizzly bear. It's just terrifying, terrifying. What's the name of the guy? What's the name of the, well, that was money. Not cocaine that fell out of the plane. What was the name of that? The, the, the famous person that we never got caught. No God. It was like initials. It's like initials. Yeah, DB Cooper. Yes, DB Cooper. That was, that was money. So I looked it up. Okay. There really was a grizzly bear that ate a bunch of cocaine. What, like, I, like, what does that do to the bear? Like, well, he ended up running up a bunch of, he wrote, he wrote up a bunch of business plans. He got all his, he got all his food for the next four winters. He's stocked up. They were killed a bunch of hookers. I got one damn Bill's Arian. No, that's what I told my, my kids and I were laughing, you know, and my son, my son's like, he's like, Oh shit, look at that bear. Oh, he wants to start a business with me all of a sudden. What's going on here? That bear's on cocaine. It was, it's- Now he lives in Miami. Would you take your two oldest? Yeah, so, so along those lines. So I took the two oldest, I never really hang out just with the two of them. So Jessica stayed behind with the two babies, right? And so I'm off with the two older ones. And it was a long movie. It was a two and almost three hour movie. We're out for a while. Then I drove to some other neighborhoods cause I was looking at, you know, potentially moving or whatever. So it was like half of the day, right? So I come home and I saw the most attractive thing ever. And I think you guys can relate. You know, I know Adam, we've talked about this before. I come home and my wife is, she's got the baby, right? So she's kind of, she's outside. She's nursing the baby with one hand like this, holding an umbrella with the other one. While my two year old has got rain boots on and is like stomping around getting wet. I'm looking at her. I'm like, that is the hottest mom of all time. So she, and so I walk up to her, I walk up to her and I whispered in her ear. I'm like, oh, you're going to get it later. Whatever. She's like, what? She's like, I haven't showered. I'm all out of shape cause I just had a baby. What's wrong with you? I'm like, this is the, I've never seen you so attractive in my life. You're like handling all these kids and doing all this stuff, you know? Yeah, I get it though. Yeah. There's just those moments. You're like, yeah, that's my girl. Totally. Yeah. 100%. Well, I was going to tell Adam this morning that I had the most epic sex the other night and really like, it's not my other move, right? The one I told you guys about, The Tool Belt Notures. Yeah. Oh, were you fixing stuff? That's exactly, he told me he had an incredible sex and I was like, oh, would you fix the house? He's like, no, bro, I got another one. No, it's definitely, so I kind of threw out the book and decided to kind of concede. So there was, so I can't stand like these old, stuffy English movies and TV shows and stuff like that. That's like very like, very proper and they drink tea and they talk about stupid stuff. So she had one of these movies on. That definitely describes every English movie. It's every single one I've seen. It's like the Royal Tanin, but whatever. Whoever, I don't give a shit, you know, whatever. Just dialogue all the time. Yeah, just dialogue. So that was on TV and I was just got done putting the, she likes those movies. She loves it, yeah. And you can never watch it because I'm just like, and she always says like, oh, we're always watching the action bang bang shoot stuff. And I'm like, that's not true. It's usually comedy and it's like, you know, shows, sci-fi, whatever. Anyways, it was on, I get out and she's watching it and it's like, you know, can I have a few more minutes watching my shirt? And then I see like a little bit of like, you know, making out, whatever. And it got like kind of steamy. And I'm like, okay, yeah, leave that on. That's, yeah, let's check this out. I'm going to let you watch this. This is great. And it turns out like it was like straight up like old English porn or something. Yeah, it was showing Netflix. I'm like, what is this rated? Like it was interesting. It was like somebody's lover or something. Anyways, it was like a straight up romance novel. Do you remember the name of the movie? I don't care. Yeah, I don't even care what the name of it was. He didn't make it always. But we're watching every season now. It was so epic. And like, yeah, anyway, so apparently that really, you know, so you put on a cravat, it's tingly is going for her and things and some like, well, I've been missing out this whole time. I guess that's why I like, you know, cause I used to make fun of my dad all the time for watching those stupid shows. And now you know why I get it. I get it pops, you know, you know, teach yourself. Do you guys hear, but I think I told you guys I might have talked about on the show about that guy that hired. He paid somebody to mug his girlfriend so he could save his girlfriend so he could like show up, beat the guy up. Oh yeah. Yeah, dude. Yeah, it totally worked until it doesn't work. Like if you're trying to get mugged for reals one time, my boyfriend's gonna kick. Oh no, no, honey, we're gonna leave this time. We should probably walk away. You know, I watched last night, I think I heard you say something to dug about. I didn't even know it was out was, what's his face is stand up, Sebastian's. Oh, I watched half of it. It was really good. It was really good. I only watched half. Have you watched it? No. Oh, you? Yeah, I did. Oh, it was good. Yeah, I liked it. He's gotten really good. And he did a good job of touching some third rail top. I mean, I love to see this kind of, the pendulum swinging back in the comedy sphere, right? I feel like these comedians are finally like, okay, enough is enough. We're becoming so overly sensitive, stand up comedians, they're trying to cancel comedians and stuff like that, like the Dave Chappelle. So every one of them, I feel like I've watched recently, make sure to like touch the third rails a little bit. And he did it. I thought he did a really good job of. Whenever he talks about his family and his dad, I crack up because. I think of you guys. Yeah, because he's a, you know, because they're Italian. Yeah, yeah. And he goes, and he's talking about the time. He's like, I can tell, I can just see the way you move that you're not from, you're not American. He talks about his dad. He goes, those are not American moves. And he's like, mimicking his dad up laughing. Because I like. Katrina was cracking up. She's like, oh my God, this is gonna be you. I can tell this is gonna be you when you're older. So that he's an older dad, right? And so she, he like, he does this whole thing of like. Oh, what he talks about. Can't get this kid to school and stuff like that. And the whole time she was like, oh my God, this is. No, I like the part. Jessica laughed a little too hard at this part. Some, you know, you ever watch your wife laugh a little too hard. And he's like, wait a minute. He's like, yeah. He's like, I'm 49 years old. I got a five year old and a three year old. He goes, so I play a lot of times laying down on the ground. Because I just laid down on the ground. Jessica's like, and I'm like, wait a minute. That's how I play with the kids. Easier. Hey, just jump on me kids. I have to, dude. I found it's lady shan'therlays lover. There you go. Throw you. Wow. You dudes out there. We never watch that normally. I highly suggest it. She's into that stuff, huh? Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I didn't, it's the thing is like it's, I think I've suppressed it so much for her that she doesn't admit that she likes it. You know, it's almost like, so I can't watch standup comedy anymore either because she's like, no, like, cause I think I've overdone it. That kind of thing. Yeah, yeah. So I have to like, again, we're talking to the fitness tip. You got to interrupt the patterns. So what are, okay. So what's everybody's show or types of stuff that the wives watch that you don't watch and then that you watch and she doesn't watch. So Jessica doesn't watch a lot of TV, but if there is one show she'll watch that I just will like, oh God, she likes watching the Kardashians. Oh, she watches that? She watches her. What? She does. No way, I didn't know we had anybody in her circle that watched it. It's a trash, like she calls it her trash TV or whatever. But then she's also like, you know, but they're great business people. I'm like, okay, whatever. So she likes the Kardashians, she'll watch all the seasons of that or whatever. And then for me, I can never put anything sci-fi on, ever, nothing. Sometimes I'll try and trick her. Like, oh, this is a really good, it's a really good drama and I'll put it on and they'll be like a hint of futuristic anything. Oh, sci-fi, turn it off. Like, oh man. It has to be real subtle. Yeah, like it's a good story. We got to watch the story. Yeah, see, that's funny. That's someone that all the wives are somewhere on. Because Katrina and I actually watch almost all the same TV. We're into all the, most of the same stuff, except for that. That's the one, that and I can't get her to watch as many, I would watch more documentaries. I like documentaries. Yeah, so do I. So like, if I can't find anything on TV, I feel like I can always find a good documentary that I'll want to watch and I'll default to that or she'll be like, ah, she don't want to watch it. Have you guys seen, I talked about it once, but have you guys seen Stutz yet? Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. What do you guys think of that? Oh, Katrina loves it. Katrina actually. It's so good, right? Katrina paused it and did a bunch of processing, watching it. So did we. We pause and would talk about it. Pause and talk about it. What a brilliant therapist and such an endearing man and the way he communicates, so good. It's phenomenal. A lot of people are talking about it right now. Yeah, it's good. It's a good show. It's, I mean, it's different, right? It's like you can't go into it thinking you're going to watch like a good show or a good movie. It was brilliantly done and unique, right? I don't think you've ever seen something. And you take away a lot from it. Yeah. You definitely, I like the, I mean, the part where he talked about how taking care of your physical health will take care of 85%, this is his words, 85% of people's anxiety and depressive issues. Because you know how many times I get young men who are just feeling like crap, I get them to exercise and eat right and it fixes their problems. I mean, we've seen this, but to hear it from, you know, a really, really well respected therapist, say that. Yeah, exactly. Totally validated. Yeah. Anyway, cocaine bear it. Cocaine bear it. So all right, so you mentioned Chappelle, which made me think of Elon. Oh yeah, did you, okay. So tell me about what, what's this thing here? So, well, first of all, Chappelle and Chris Rock were together, right? I wish we would have went to that. Well, that's your and San Jose. We're so stupid for not going there. I don't know why we slept on that. That was a bad one. That's like, that's your wheelhouse, Adam. I guess. You should have been one of those. I think, I think Justin watches way more stand up. I didn't get notified. Yeah, you watch way more stand up than I do. Yeah, but you're all about the cool stuff happening around us. Oh, that's a cool thing. Okay, that's what that was. I'll take the ticket for the team on that one. He was, they were here and I guess Elon, Chappelle introduced him. To the audience. Introduced the audience, the richest man in the world's here and said hi. And he came up on stage and supposedly he got booed. Well, according to all the articles that are floating around all over the place. Now, according to Musk and people that were there told me that it was like 90, 10. 90 cheers, 10% booze. And then you're getting the complete opposite being reported on the way. And conveniently, there's no videos of this. It's like some of the people you fire in the audience. And supposedly the rumor in the media is that people did share it on Twitter and Twitter removed the videos of him booing. That's what the... He owns Twitter. You should put it back up. No, so that's what... So the articles are saying that he removed it. He got booed like crazy. And the reason why we can't see any videos of it is because he removed all of it. Well, then it should be on Facebook. Right. It should be on these old platforms. Bro, it's hilarious. The media machine. The effort to target him right now is... It's so bad. Is crazier than I think I've ever seen. Like the minute that the news came out that he was getting it, like they just... I mean, they even pulled up stuff. Like I've never seen articles about him buying multiple private jets and just any... And then all his kids' stuff can't... How many kids he has... Like anything that they can attach to making him look like a puke is hitting the news. It's crazy. I mean, who's sticking their neck out more than him these days? Can someone please... He needs 24-hour security. Like talking about the biggest hornet's nest of all time and he just has this stick and just like bam! Bro, the Twitter files that are coming out right now show clear, clear cooperation between political parties, government and social media. Clear. He's also... Do you see one of his latest tweets where he said, my pronouns are prosecute Fauci? Fauci, yeah. That one when I was like, wow, dude. Bro, somebody... I feel real bad, like I'm worried about him is what I should say. I'm worried about the guy because he's... That machine, whatever that machine is, has taken out people in the past in terms of taking out their credibility. They're obviously attacking him from all angles. Are you current on all in right now? Just, I think so. Did you do Fridays? What was it about? So they talked about all this. Oh, no, no, I guess not. Oh, yeah, yeah, they talked all... And then also what he's going to do as far as... And Chamath was talking about how he thinks that this actually should almost become law for all social media and that he's gonna be completely transparent with why you're... If you're shadow banned, why you're shadow banned, that you competition it. There's gonna be complete transparency around what is happening with the algorithm so everybody knows and it's like, you know what's crazy is like that should be adopted by every... It should be in the standard from the very beginning. Can I tell you something? He's already the... I don't know, again, I wanna say this because people are stupid about this, that I don't know the man, so I don't know if he's a good guy, I don't know if he's a good father, I don't know if he's a good friend, any of that stuff. But objectively, he's the greatest entrepreneur in modern times. The guy created a space company. And by the way, please... Before that was NASA and it became successful and profitable. He created a car company, one of the most... Nobody creates a new car company. Not only did he do that, he got rid of the cartel between the dealerships and the cars and who sells them or whatever. He did it direct. He broke all the rules, made it a profitable company. PayPal made that massively profitable with other people. Solar, boring company. List goes on. Okay, so here he goes, he takes over Twitter, which is of all the social media companies was the shittiest one at the time, right? It was just crappy. We know this. We see the numbers and whatever. Now it's... It's a propaganda machine. Now it's starting to grow. Could you imagine if he turns Twitter into the social media company? He's going to. To follow? He's going to. That's insane. He's going to. That'll be crazy. Why wouldn't he? Look at his track record and almost everything else that he's touched. And you got to think. And part of why I think he even did it is because he looks at the other stuff. He's like you said, he built something to rival NASA. Come on. Like a fucking social media company. He's like, come on. I could do this. Well, we'll see. I'll take this out of the shitter. We'll see, but it's crazy. It seems like Twitter existed simply to be this kind of loudspeaker for, I guess, special interest. So I don't think it's that nefarious. I don't think that. Bro, have you read the Twitter? So I don't believe that. I don't buy that. What I think... I mean, it's all there. Yeah, but here, there's a better explanation in my opinion. They've already done the polls on it. Like 90% of Twitter is liberal. That worked there. And these are the people that are making the controls. Okay. And they do social media at this time in our lifetime, right? This has only been around for 15 years. It's very new. This idea of like this, like what do we do with this type of content? And I think what they've done is they use the policies that were in place and they geared it favorable to their views. I don't think it was like this master of people. Why isn't that nefarious? Yeah. Well, it's because I don't think they thought about it like that. I don't think it was like, Oh, no, no, no, no, it was thought up. Did you see the correspondence with the Hunter Biden laptop? Them going back and forth. Them saying, oh, I don't think this we can do this, but let's do it anyway type of deal, or kicking Trump off of Twitter. Like they knew and they talked about it in the correspondence. So, and people like, was it Michelle Obama was actually telling Twitter you should take... Again, okay. So let's put it in since we're in this world. I don't think there's like one person in control. Let's put this into perspective. Okay, let's put it in our world. Now, obviously we're not as big as Twitter, but imagine that we were. The amount of like hate and comments and negative stuff, I mean, you already said it the other day. You said it not that long ago where you're like, you know what, we're getting this place now where I think I'm just going to start to delete stuff that is just negative or evil or vicious that people are posting on there, okay? That you and we all would have an internal conversation about that if we were to move in that direction. Yeah, I'm not... And we all have our own political views and thoughts about how we view the world. And so you are seeing a conversation internally that's happening about something like that. You're explaining why, but that doesn't matter. Here's the problem. Listen, what I'm saying, I'm not defending it by any means. You're just explaining why. Yeah, yeah, I just... I just think that it's... That's not new. There's room of contradiction. That's not... That would have happened across the board from anybody saying anything hateful, which was happening completely in a different direction as well. We have very, very specific protections for free speech, but the protections for free speech are the government. In other words, if I want to tell you to shut up because you're on my podcast, I could do that, it's a private podcast, right? If I have a guest that's on and we do this interview, I don't like it. I don't have to air it, right? But the government is barred from censoring speech. They are barred from censoring the media. So what they've done and what the Twitter, what these files that came out are showing is that they used... They censored by proxy. They shielded themselves with this life. The CDC sent stuff and influenced these people. So my point is... My defense is Twitter in that situation. You've got a government entity that is telling you, hey, this is dangerous information, what do you do? Again, put it back on us. Like CDC or someone's coming down on us. We have our own private company that we're building and running. And oh, by the way, our political views happen to align with them also. So it's pretty easy for us to go like, okay, yeah, we're gonna shadow ban. That should be illegal. It should be illegal that the government tells media. I don't disagree with that. I don't disagree with that. That is government though. That's not Twitter. So I don't blame Twitter as a private entity for that situation that government is being involved. What I blame is the lies, for sure. They lied about it for a long time. No, we're not doing that. That's not what we're doing. It's Tuesday though, you know? Twitter. Twitter would come out and say, we don't do that, we don't shadow ban. Twitter is not a person. The company, Twitter, whoever this spoke to be, I don't know the person's name, but they would come out and say, no, we're not shadow banning. No, we don't do that. I know, but they're, okay, so Jack Dorsey came out and said all those things, right? So there's also a very good possibility that some of the things that were happening, the people that were pulling the levers, that Jack Dorsey was unaware of that. Okay, so if one of our employees misrepresents us, whose fault is it? Okay, so that's my point. My point is that it is nefarious in that sense and I'm glad it's getting revealed and it goes way worse than that because all the people, everybody who's suspected that big tech is geared in a particular direction, is censoring something. Like for example, there were legit pedophile tweets that went out, you know what they would do? Delete the tweet, leave the poster alone. They didn't shadow ban them, they didn't kick them off. You had people going out saying, hey, I'm not gonna get vaccinated because this doesn't have a lot of studies behind it. Not only did they get rid of the tweet, they banned the person, like this is crazy to me. Well, I can't, that's a whole another discussion. I can't get behind or even comprehend what the fuck is going on with the whole child shit. Like the stuff that we're seeing right now on the pedophile side and with the elites, with the Hollywood, with these social media companies, like I can't even wrap my brain around it because I have yet to know anybody who isn't disgusted by the Blintziaga stuff and disgusted with the stuff that's coming out like that. So who the fuck is approving or allowing? I shield all this stuff. Yeah, who has got that much power and that much control that these types of companies, these types of people are being shielded protected? It's just inconsistencies and contradictions that whatever their motives are, are relevant to me. You can't have just one-sided, if this is a platform for everybody to speak and speak their mind and have their cause and all that, it has to be across the board. You cannot just completely scrub it into one direction. You don't have anything for you. Well, that's why I think this is such a beautiful solve, what he's about to do. And I think that this is one of those cool things. This is another example of great free market stuff, is that yes, these are all private companies, they can choose to do what they want. But when he sets the tone, is that we are gonna show you the algorithm. And he outcompetes the other. Yeah, and by the way, that's- He's always gonna be keen. As creators that utilize a lot of these platforms, one of the most frustrating parts, I mean, before we started this podcast today, we were banging our heads going like, what the fuck is going on with YouTube right now? You know, why are we not growing? All of a sudden we've halted it, we've slowed way down out of nowhere. You know, it sucks. It's like we have no clue. We're guessing constantly throwing spaghetti on the wall, trying to figure out the algorithm. Like, how nice would it be if like, here's what you need to do. Boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. And then the best man wins, you know? I'll tell you right now what it is. Clary. It's the fucking evil fitness cartel trying to see off of us from telling the truth. Hey, beach buddy? Yeah. Oh, man. We finally woke up beach buddy. It's the Satan worshiping. It's the only ones that got billions of dollars. It's the only ones that can- It's the only ones that can slow us down, you know what I'm saying? It's the Satan worshiping fitness cartel. Look, we're trying to do the good stuff here. Share us. Make sure you share us so we can defeat the evil fitness cartel. Help us beat the pedophile. Help us beat the pedophile. Hey, what is the leader of the fitness, the evil fitness cartel look like? He's like the liver king, that son of a bitch. I knew it. Job of the nut. He's a fat dude. No, we can't get people to- Man, I would really like, I like to see his numbers right now. The amount of publicity that guy is getting- Actually, if you go on his Instagram, you look at the comments, like 80% of them are crap or bad, negative. People are calling him the lying, not the liver king, the lying king. Like lie? Oh yeah, that's good. I mean, I'm less interested in what the dweebs on Twitter and Instagram say. I'm more interested in like website traffic. That's what I'd like to see. Because I mean, you guys know that. I mean, how many times that we've posted or done something and then the mob of people that you ruffled there? I mean, how many times when we do it, if we say anything about vegans, they guarantee we got 20 comments coming real quick. Actually, you know what's funny? So we have a postpartum doula that works with us and she's vegan. And she's like, God, for a lot of, just for, look, I know I'm gonna offend some people, but she's a real vegan. What I mean by that is, what I mean by that is studies will show that if somebody tries to go, if someone tries to go vegan to lose weight or because they think it'll improve their health, their consistency with it or their ability to stick to it is as good as anybody trying to follow any diet. So someone tries to follow keto, anybody who tries to follow carnivore or whatever. It's the super high fail rate. Now the ones that stick to it. Of course, because they're misled. They're misled to believe that that's a better way of eating. It just doesn't work, right? But the ones that stick to it are the ones that really have like these ethical issues that really believe animals shouldn't be harmed. So I asked her about this and she said, yeah, she goes, I've been like this since I was, I think since she was 10. I'm like, since you were 10, she goes, yeah, once I kind of realized what I was doing. She's like, I couldn't do it anymore. And so we started talking and she's telling me about how she organizes her food, how she supplements, how she feeds her kids because her kids are not that way. And I told her, I said, well, you've met a few people. Good for her, she feeds her kid normal and then she eats that way. Well, yeah. And I said, well, why don't you, she goes because I know how much she goes, it's hard enough getting your kids to get all their nutrition, let alone taking out an entire category of nutritious foods. So we had this great conversation around it. Anyway, back to Twitter. I gotta tell you guys, I got this. So we're supposed to mention Zebotics. So this goes right into it. So somebody on there, every time somebody gets annoyed with me on Twitter, they'll make a, like, it's like the easy, please come up with better insults. Like, oh, your own steroids or oh, you know, whatever. Or oh, you guys, whatever dude. Anyway, this guy goes on there and he goes, yeah, you're talking about health, but you guys talk about drinking alcohol. And I thought you were a fitness podcast. I'm like, dude, do you listen to my show? It's never somebody who does. No, so. You're not puritanical enough. Yeah. So, you know, health isn't just about, in fact, health is not being rigid and perfect with everything. Health also was about enjoying the moment, connecting with people. And there are benefits to enjoying the taste of something or how something may make you feel like alcohol. So can alcohol be healthy? Yes, it can be healthy with bonding. There can be some psychological health. Of course, it can be abused and it can be unhealthy. So I did this whole, like, reply to it or whatever. Now, along those lines, and here's a Z-Biotics part, you can do things that mitigate the physiological damage that alcohol can potentially produce or just a shitty day after feeling. And they're, boom, they're insert Z-Biotics. That'll help with that big time. So that's so funny, you can't like that. I know, I know, it's funny. Every once in a while you get these fitness zealots who think being orthorexic is what health is all about, being like super rigid. And I'm like, no, man, there was that one famous study we've talked about many times where they showed that. Relationships. Yeah, having poor relationships in your life was as bad for your health as smoking 10 cigarettes a day. It was more than that. Or a pack. How much is in a pack? No, it was like 50 cigarettes. It was a crazy number. I think it was a pack. I don't think it was 50. But nonetheless, Fact check me, doc. That's a lot. It was a lot. Nonetheless, that's unhealthy. And so think about all the fitness fanatics that we've known in our life, who don't go to parties, don't hang out with friends because they don't wanna miss leg day. They gotta, oh, can't go out and eat because I have to have my perfect food. So it's like they're trading one for the other. Well, listen, what ends up happening too, a lot of them are just young, right? They're young and they came up in this last 15 years, right? In the fitness space. And so we were around pre-social media. So we had the opportunity to kind of see this before it came, when it was coming. And I think you have some of these kids that were born into it. And in fact, when we were out in Utah, the property, I was talking to somebody and I'll either beep his name out or not use his name actually. That way it'll be easier. A big social media person, right? Millions of followers. And I was talking to him on the phone and he's a little bit younger than we are almost by 10 years. And you could tell he's just, he's exhausted. It very, very successful, done really well, well loved. Everybody likes him, stuff like that. And, but like just at a point in his life where he's like, dude, I'm like, I'm so tired of like having to create this content every single day. And like he's built this following that expects him to be talking to his stories every single day, seven days a week. And he's been consistent with that forever. Sure, he takes these little day or a couple of day breaks at best, but to have that pressure of like putting out yourself like that on the internet every single day to be subjected to these people that are gonna bark at you and talk shit, I'm just like, so unhealthy. Yeah, recipe for failure, right? Oh, absolutely. And even if you have great financial success in the short term with it, the long-term effects of getting sucked into that is, you can't imagine what that would be like. I mean, and I think that if you don't know any better because you grew up with that, you don't know kind of life without it. And I just think that a lot of these characters that build themselves up on these platforms, they're gonna be, it's gonna be interesting to see what happens to a lot of them in 10, 15, 20 years. Well, the worst, what's bad about it is on the outside, a kid may watch this and think that that's great. That's what I want. Wow, look at that person. I wanna be just like that, not realizing the personal hell. A kid might, that's like, isn't that like the number one thing now in like junior highs and so that? You ask them what they wanna do and they say YouTube star. Yes. I know. I mean, that's a little. You know how it's unhealthy is placing so much value on those fake relationships that where your likes in the comments and your fans and followers or whatever, like those aren't real relationships. They may appreciate what you do. They may find some value in what you're doing. So there's some value there, but it's not a lot of value. It's not like the relationship you have with your kids or your best friends or your spouse, where that really matters. So when they give you a negative comment or you're always trying to get the approval, it's like, what are you doing? It's like you're drinking seawater to quench your thirst. I made sure to represent the fun side of mine, pump this weekend. Oh wait, real quick, 15 cigarettes a day to Adam's house, closer than you. That's a lot, huh? Is that what, I don't know what it's in a pack. Do you know what it's in a pack to? No idea. Andrew? It's been a couple of years since I smoked. Don't act like you don't know. Nobody knows. You know, it also says like poor marriages. You never smoked a single cigarette in your life? Ever. Not a single cigarette? Wow. Wow. I didn't know that. Yeah, I've never been a fan, but I've definitely tried. 20 cigarettes in a pack. So, you know. Oh, that's in a pack. I thought it was more. Yeah, I remember the first time I tried a cigarette. I was in Italy. I was 12 and my family members would throw their little like cigarettes off the balcony over there so you know, because they were done with it. And I had to look up. Nobody's looking and I'd pick it up and there were like a few drags left on it. Oh yeah. I got sick of my stomach. Europe's crazy with smoking cigarettes. I know. Yeah. Yeah, oh, I was representing us this weekend. I went to a party, this holiday party, Christmas party. I had met my friend through and I had met him by one of Courtney's friends. So it was like, I've hung out with him maybe like a couple of times, but I don't really know them specifically. So I was like, a little bit unsure of like, if it was going to be super fun, like what to do. It's a Christmas party where you have like the ugly sweaters and all that. And so I'm like, okay, I got to figure out something that's kind of like a conversation piece. So I decided to go with like the Uncle Eddie theme. That's what you were. So I saw it and I'm like, You didn't know what that was? No, I knew right away. No, no, no, no. Right away, now I'm disappointed. No, I knew it was National Lampoons. Yeah. I knew that, but I, and I only briefly looked at it and I couldn't piece together the character. It was. You serious right now, Clark? Yeah. And so yeah, so I was so good. Dude, so I waited and I had the shoes and everything. Bro, it fit really well too. Maybe why it was so unassuming. Because it didn't look bad. Yeah, because it looked, because it was done. Yeah, it wasn't like hokey enough. But it was funny because I went all these different websites to piece it together and everything fit me perfect. How much did you spend on the outfit? That's probably like 50 bucks. What was it like? No way. That whole thing? I swear. The shoes too? They were like 10 bucks. No way. It was like the cheapest stuff you could do. Wow. The pants were like, like scrub pants. You know, like somebody'd wear to. Really? Yeah, like a nurse or. Wow, you did so good. I'm so impressed right now. Yeah, it was like super thrifty. Anyway, so I get there and like, it was fun. It was raining and so everybody's inside. They're playing like beer pong. It was like, remind me of like college. I haven't played like forever, but there was this. Like riding a bike. He's like, riding a bike. He's all good. Damn, I'm naturally just good at this. I can drink. And we, we had this white elephant. He's an international champion. Just pull out the belt. Yeah, so we did the white elephant gift thing and we kind of wrapped ours. Ours was pretty neutral. It was like a game, a meme game of like the office or something stupid. But there's some people that brought some heat. I love to bring, I like to be the guy who brings like the most like inappropriate white elephant. They don't know who it is. Yes. And there was a good 15 or 20 people or so and we're all kind of gathered around and at this point we're all kind of feeling it. We've been drinking a bit. And I was talking to this guy who's hilarious. He just like, he was just cracking me up all night. He gets like the first like choice. He goes out and he picks this box and he opens it up and he's looking at it and he's kind of like trying to figure out what it is. And he's just like, pocket pussy? No. Yes. And he's like so excited about it. And everybody's just like dying and like crying. And to the point where like he's figuring out, everybody's laughing and all this stuff. And he's like, cause you can steal other people's gifts and everything. He's like, he's like, well, and he just steps out the door. I'll see you guys later. Goes in the car and drives home. No, he didn't. He's like, I'm out of here. Wait, he actually left? For real? I was laughing so hard for like an hour cause he literally just like, like that was the ultimate comedy move. Right? Like you get the high of it and then you're just like, he was out. That's the George Costanza. Never saw him again, dude. He's like, wow, he committed to that. He's like, yeah, he committed. He left like props. Props. Wow. Matt props. Somebody put a sex toy. Oh yeah. There was a vine raiders before. It's the best ever because then you get, somebody who gets it, they're like, they don't want it. And then it ends up being this thing where it's like, you get it to move twice to where it gets stuck on somebody. Just as long as it's not a regift. Dude. Yeah. Dude was my hero. I got a picture of him before he left too just to make sure. Wow. Wow. So a good party then, huh? It was fun though. Yeah, we had a good time. And then the costume had to have been a hit. I mean, how- Yeah, it was fun. Cause like, and it was good that actually I didn't like know how it was going to go down but like everybody there that got it, got it and were throwing me quotes like half the time. So it was like, I wasn't just, you know, awkward guy like, hey, I don't know you but my name is this, they're like, you know, shit or four. Yeah, whatever. Like they're just coming up with quotes and throwing it at me. What a great movie. I love those National Lampoon movies. What's that scene where he's driving? I don't think it was the first one. The Ferrari? Well, yeah, he's driving and then the Ferrari with- That's National Lampoon's vacation. Was that- Christie Brinkley. Was it Christie Brinkley? Where she pulls up next to him? I knew that one. Did Doug do that really quick? Yeah. His wife's sleeping next to him. He's like, oh, what's going on? Yeah. And there's always a scene where they're coming out of the pool, right? Like all those old 80s movies, dude. And they're like looking at it through the window. Hey, I looked at, you brought up on the show the other day, chat GPT. Yes. So I've watched some things about it. I've now tried to get on it four or five times. It's crashed. Too many people. What the fuck? Bro, it's, I think more people visited it, that site in three days than all the social media. I kind of feel like this is a hustle. Kind of feel like, you know, that's, they say they're bored ape. No. Dude, they put all this hype out around it. And then everybody's like, dude, trying to get on it. And everybody's like, damn, it's so good. You can't see it. Yeah. Truth social. Oh, God, bro. Yes, dude. Yes. Truth social, dude. Yes, dude. I'm kind of- My cousin. Smell and bullshit. My cousin who's in tech and he's helped, you know, grow some companies. And he's in that, you know, that whole space or whatever. He says that the technology behind it, he's like, Sal, this is gonna be like the internet. Like literally, it's gonna be that disruptive where when it really comes out and they really put it together, he goes, we can't even imagine the innovations and the things that it's gonna- Okay, so I'm completely oblivious. So this is like a- So imagine the most sophisticated Google without you having to basically type it in. Like you literally just speak it. Speak it, okay. And literally to this point, Justin, like you- Why is that different than Alexa? You did your post, like your picture. Write me a caption for this post. And it will? Yes. Or you create me a movie about Justin, Adam, and Sal from Mind Pump, that's an action, whatever, like give it parameters and it'll script out- And you can do it like this. You could say, write me a caption. We're gonna be so relevant. You could be like, write me a caption in 1800s English. Or write me a caption- Ooh, I'm gonna do that for my wife. Like a Quentin Tarantino film. And they'll do it in a way to where you, it's like it matches what you're asking. And also you could take like a, you could copy, paste an equation and it'll- Well, so to do your homework for you. Okay, so now this is what brings me to the conversation I wanted to have with you. I can learn anything. So I get, people are already supposedly using it. And do it all, and it's supposed to be amazing. But you're definitely, you're plagiarizing. AI is creating, it's not you who's doing it. And so this whole idea of like letting them write your captions but they're not disclosing, it's not you. They're gonna write people's papers for them. Well, yes, that's what I'm saying. So let me ask you guys this. So how do you work around that? Well, so I was gonna say this. And it's indecipherable? Like come on, like you have to be able to see signs of- It's getting that good. People can't tell. First thing it's gonna eliminate or replace is customer service, gone. Oh yeah. You'll get on and you don't even know you're talking to your computer. For sure that'd be the first implementation. Copywriters are the next. Where you're gonna want copy for emails, for sales copy, for whatever. And it'll do it and it'll sound like your company. This is how incredible it is. But here's my question. Forget the plagiarizing and stuff like that. When it gets so good that we don't need to know anything, we just need to have this assistant. What's the use of learning anything? Like we're just gonna walk around and be like- Idiocracy, man. I'm telling you guys, we're closer and closer. Think about that. Well, okay, so- What's the value in it? Okay, so the challenge or the thing that someone like you would normally say in the situation is that we'll just progress and we'll solve other problems as a society. So the things like the calculator, that they thought the same thing when the calculator came around. Like, oh my God, we're never gonna do math again. We're gonna forget how to do math, blah, blah, blah, like no. Spend up the process. Reass up for interstellar travel. And then it allows us to go solve bigger and harder problems. And so the argument to that would be, okay, yeah, it's gonna solve a lot of mundane stuff that doesn't cause us to stop and think about something for an hour of our time. Now we have that hour we can dedicate towards progressing humanity. So that would be the argument that it's not- Well, I don't know about the progressing humanity part. I used to say that about the internet and then it happened. And then it seems like people got dumber. Yeah. So I used to be, I used to be that kid. I used to be like, oh, it's gonna solve. Like now we're gonna have all the information, access all the information. Like humanity's gonna progress so fast. And then they have like flat earth society and like- We're so dependent on it now just for any kind of information, recall. You don't have any memory recall in terms of like- I don't know, it's gonna be weird, man. But my cousin literally said it'll be as revolutionary as the internet to the point where we're not even, we can't even begin to imagine the innovations and the ways that this is gonna change. Well, that'll speed every industry up. People are saying it's gonna replace Google or how Google is now. Because like Adam made the point, maybe Google will buy it. Yeah, I imagine Google would buy it. If this thing gets enough traction that Google either one would buy it or reverse engineer the technology and build it within their own ecosystem, right? So I think that's why I didn't get so excited about it right out the gates because I'm just like, okay, what I understand about the app world and the tech world as far as how you can reverse engineer stuff, like once you get to a certain level of power like the Amazons, like the Facebooks, like the Googles, like, I mean, when you see these up and coming companies like, oh, cool story, bro, but they'll either one buy it, if they can't buy it, they'll reverse engineer it and they'll build it themselves, you know? So it's like, I don't know if it, the technology I 100% believe it's like the future. I think it's one of the most valuable things that we've seen AI produce so far. We've got all this stuff that we keep talking about like what, how AI is gonna shake up everything gonna be so different to me. This is the first thing. This is the first thing that it goes like, oh, okay, like this is gonna, this has a lot of application for a lot of different things and this could definitely disrupt a lot of issues. So do you know when you go on Google and you ask a basic questions like, you know, how many cups of water in a gallon or whatever? And rather than showing you websites, it just gives you the answer. Now more complicated stuff, it gives you the websites to read yourself. This is basically gonna be that, the answer. So you ask it whatever and it'll give you the answer rather than having you go through. Rather than having to thumb through and decide for yourself. And it'll be very accurate. I actually think most, rarely ever does Google give me the answer. That's crazy. That always gives me a website. It does for basic stuff. Huh? For basic stuff it does. Real basic. Yeah. Almost always when I search it like, what I think would be basic, it's not a, Correct. Yeah, it still sends me to a website that I gotta go, which I mean, like you said, that alone is having the answer read to you right away, like that's a big deal. Crazy. All right, so we're supposed to talk about creatures of habit. Adam, you were saying you've been getting some comments from people about how much they like it. Yeah, no, I think it's one of the things we've talked about on the show recently is the importance of getting protein early in your diet or early in the day or just stay ahead. And then just most breakfast foods are so carb-heavy and there's not a lot. And a lot of people who think they're having a protein breakfast or having like two eggs and a piece of toast and something else. And it's like, what are you getting? Like 12 grams of protein. And having a high protein breakfast stabilizes your blood sugar and insulin throughout the day. It results in less calories throughout the day they show. Actually, and this is old bodybuilding wisdom, by the way, that's been proven by a lot of studies. Having a high protein breakfast makes the rest of the day typically healthier and better, which is really interesting. No, it's become a staple for me. I love it. I mean, I see you, I don't think it's you guys. Somebody is eating it like right here. I eat them all the time. Yeah, because we have one that gets shipped here and I'm bringing some of my own personal one here and you guys are still going through it. It's super easy to digest. So people don't know, it's basically, it's oatmeal that also has 30 grams of protein, Omega-3 fatty acids, vitamin D, probiotics, and digestive enzymes. And they don't use whey, so you can digest it fine. Yes, so I can have it, because it's not dairy. Check this out, you're not what you eat, you're what you digest. Now we lose digestive enzymes as we age and if you don't have enough of these enzymes, you might only be absorbing 40% of the protein you're eating, it's total waste. Mass enzymes breaks down the protein into usable amino acids and boosts your absorption of nutrients. So what does this mean? Faster muscle recovery, more energy, less inflammation, a healthier gut, and better digestion. Mass enzymes is for anyone who wants optimal digestion and to get rid of uncomfortable bloating and gas once for all. Also on the website, they actually have a video of mass enzymes breaking down a piece of steak. Super cool, check it out. Anyway, go to masszymes.com, that's M-A-S-S-Z-Y-M-E-S dot com forward slash mine pump, then use the code minepump10 for 10% off any order. All right, here comes the rest of the show. Our first caller is Pierre from Ontario. Pierre, what's happening? How can we help you? Hey guys, I'm doing good. How about you? Good. I just want to start with thanking you guys and also actually praising, especially for your prime and prime programs. Hey. Awesome. Yeah, I've been using those and I'm actually a, I've been a part-time professional wrestler for the last 20 years. And the last, since I've gotten these programs last year, I've now used them to prime before my matches and I find I'm not as sore or stiff afterwards. Hell yeah, that's awesome. What's your name, by the way, in the wrestling circuit? Castor McPhier. Castor McPhier, I like that. Yeah, I'm a Hollywood actor. I try to get my opponent to follow a script that I give him. And of course it never goes according to plan and I get mad and I think, yeah, things just never go by the script. So it's fun, more character work than what a lot of these young guys do while flipping around and all that. Good deal. Awesome. All right, so what's your question? So I'm currently almost done Maps Power Lift, which has been, it's the first time I've done a power lifting program. I'm on the last week actually right now. And it's really good. So I've just been wondering, would there be any value of getting maybe a therapeutic massage or some other kind of massage either after I'm done the program before transitioning into another program? Or if there's even any value of doing that before I go and test some new PRs on my big lifts, if I were to do that. Tremendous benefit. Like real correctional, well, all massage, it's got applications, but like really good correctional therapeutic massage. It's first off, good therapists know the body quite well and they can feel when they need to work on a muscle more and maybe avoid other areas. But it improves range of motion. It helps with stiffness and tightness. It helps with muscle connection, blood flow. I mean, I think a really good massage therapist is invaluable. In fact, it would be like one of my top five people that I would refer my clients to. It's recovery. Yeah, it's super valuable. Well, very similar to the benefits that you're feeling from MAPS Prime. I mean, the priming, the way you felt that translate into your wrestling and training, I think you would see similar benefits to getting massage therapy. In fact, part of Prime and Prime Pro became necessary for me that I had to start doing it every workout because before that, my wife who's a massage therapist used to massage me every day. And so I could get away with not priming as much because how much the massage would help me to prepare my body before and after a workout. And so once I got rid of that, it became mandatory that I did the priming in Prime Pro. So absolutely, it's got huge benefits to doing it. Is it, so doing it between, is it like between programs a good idea or is there more frequency would be ideal? Like what's an ideal? The drawback is the cost, I think, because it's expensive, but I mean, in like a perfect world, I mean, a daily correctional massage. Yeah, so frequency is very important. So I would say whatever works with your schedule, put it in as often as works with your schedule and with your budget too, right? Yeah, if you can, if you have the luxury or if you married a therapist like I did, and you get one every day, that's amazing, but that's not very realistic for most people because that's pretty expensive to do that. So yeah, I'm with style. You can't go wrong with it. As much as you can, I would incorporate that. I mean, that's what I do is I, if you can afford to have it on a weekly basis, see how much that improves your wrestling and your lifting and if it is, then maybe it becomes something that becomes a prize. I know people that like that has, they've introduced it into their life and then now it's like paying electricity. Your budget around it, yeah. Yeah, exactly. It's like paying an electricity bill or anything else that you don't even think twice about you just do because it made that much of an impact on their life. Yeah, well, especially if you're wrestling still at all, it's just to be able to preserve as much joint function as possible. This is really gonna help aid in that direction. Okay, yeah, my regular job does give me benefits where we do get some reimbursement for some massages. So I'd have to look into how much I'm allowed per year to do that, so I might look into that plus my wife's cousin is a massage therapist, so. There you go. Good deal. Oh yeah. Excellent, man. Okay, all right. Quick follow-up, so what would be the best program for me to do next after Power Lift? Symmetry, yeah. I go map symmetry and then math performance would be great after that. I think those would be probably the two most valuable programs for someone like you. Yeah, synem symmetry, Doug. Oh, thank you. You got it, man, we hooked you up. Yeah, oh, you guys are awesome. You guys, I've got my wife doing maps anabolic right now. I've had her do that in performance and aesthetic and I've done the RGB bundle, well, sorry, I'm trying to blink. I did anabolic performance aesthetic, then I did maps hit, did anabolic again, then now Power Lift, so like your programs are a real deal. Good deal, man, all right, man. Excellent, thanks for calling in. Yeah, thanks for supporting us. Thanks, guys. Keep up the great work. All right, pair up a minute. Yeah, that's weird. We have a lot of wrestlers. Pro wrestlers. I think it's more than that. There is more than that. Yeah, I think it's like the third Colin who's a pro wrestler. We've had more, I've had lots of guys. I wonder what they pretty cool. I wonder what the pay is, because obviously we know the famous pro wrestlers are millionaires, but, you know, there's so much, like there's all these pro wrestling circuits. Like I wonder what the pay is like. I'm sure it's really hard to break through. Oh, I think it's probably terrible, bro. That's gotta be right. Yeah, I think it's probably really hard. Similar to like MMA fighting, I would imagine. Yeah, we're like the top two years versus the bottom. I mean, hence why he's got another like normal job too, right? So I'm sure that's his dream and passion and that's what he's working towards, but then you gotta still have like a normal job that probably pays me. Yeah, I tell you what, with the massage therapy, if I had to pick one person that I partnered with, that would give me the most broad ranging benefits to my clients. Boy, massage therapist, a really good one would be up there. It might be the person I would pick because almost every client I've trained benefited from working with them. Whereas every client didn't necessarily benefit from acupuncture, wouldn't necessarily benefit from chiropractic work or other modalities. The massage, I had one in my studio and it was like all my clients worked with them and I saw benefits on every single one. Regardless of their goal was gain, lose, mobility, whatever, energy, it just had profound effects. I got a little fun fact. Did you know that Abraham Lincoln was an awesome wrestler? Catch wrestler. Yeah. Of course I knew that. Of course you do. Yeah, okay. Oh yeah, he was a badass. He's a champion. Did you know there was a story? He's doing it in the wrestling hall of fame. Catch wrestling hall of fame. Have you heard about the story where he, there was I guess these thugs or whatever that were on a river boat and he threw all three of them off the boat? Yeah, famous story, really cool. Our next caller is Tess from North Carolina. Hey Tess, how can we help you? Hey guys, how you doing today? Good, how are you? Good, I'm so excited. I'm like fan-grilling, honestly. Awesome. It's funny cause I said on my email that I'm a triplet and I have two little sisters and they're twins. And I was like texting them in the group chat. I was like, oh my God, you guys, I get to be on mind pump. So like we're all really excited. Yeah, my sister Olivia actually introduced me to you guys a few years ago. And it's become something that we've like been able to bond over and like laugh and cry cause you guys are just so funny. So thank you for that. Awesome, thank you. See, I'll go ahead and get it. Oh yeah, you guys are awesome. And you're so humble still, like, you know what I mean? You guys are awesome. So basically- Adam's the humblest he seems all the time. The most humble. Yeah, yeah, Adam, you're actually my sister's favorite. Yeah. She wouldn't really tell you that. I like her. Tell her next time she will get her on here. But the rest of the four other sisters. She's moody. Probably like Justin, to be honest. Well, one of them is Justin and then one of them's Adam. So, nobody really likes Al. So, I'll let you be my favorite so everyone has one. No problem. All right, so basically about two years ago, I was having like a bunch of health problems. Like I was overweight. I felt like crap. It looks like crap. I like had lost my mom. So that was hard. And then I ended up having to get like a colonoscopy because my blood levels had come back with like some inflammation. I was having a bunch of other problems. They wanted to make sure I didn't have like Crohn's disease or anything like that. Thankfully, it came back normal. I just had like inflammation. So basically I was like, all right, I gotta get my shit together, decided to go ahead and lose some weight. So in December, I found a personal trainer and then within like three to four months, he put me on a deficit, lost 35 pounds. When I started off, I literally had no idea what I was doing. So that was like terrifying. And since then, I kind of like branched out on my own. I've been able to lose a little bit more weight since then. But now I've kind of jumped from like program to program. And I feel like kind of I'm at a crossroads right now in terms of like, is it my training that I need to focus on? Or is it my calories? Cause I've been at a deficit for such a long time. I don't know if like I've damaged my body or what, because I know that you guys have said, your body adapts to the changes that you make to it. So basically right now I'm eating like 1800 to 2000 calories a day. I go to the gym five times a week. So I wasn't sure like what I should be focusing on, focusing on order to get stronger and like do have similar body recomp as well. Now you say you wanna improve your progress where specifically? Like what are the specific goals that you're looking to progress in? How's your physical performance? Strength, stamina, that kind of stuff. Yeah, so I've made a lot of strength progress, but I feel like I could be making more. I feel like when I'm lifting a lot, I'm kind of at the same weights, like time and time again. And sometimes even going up like five pounds is too hard. And my stamina, like overall, like I'm much healthier than when I was even like six months ago. But I feel like I've kind of hit a plateau with a lot of the weights that I'm doing. Like I don't feel like I'm getting stronger than I have been, if that makes sense. I would love to see a mini bulk and a change of training. So what, are you following one of our maps programs right now? No, I wasn't sure which one you guys would recommend to do. Oh, hell yeah. That's still maps and a bulk. Okay, well, let me ask a little more questions though. Like right now, when you go to the gym, let's say in the last week or so, like what does your training kind of look like? Are you low rest periods? Do you like keep, you break kind of a sweat? Or do you lift heavier weight, low reps? Like what is your training kind of look like right now? Or what do you tend to do? So right now, yeah, so right now my split is like three. I have like three lower body days and then two is like I have like a push and pull day. Usually I take like long rest periods. So I'll do like two to three minutes between sets. If I'm doing lower reps and higher weights, I'll rest a little bit longer, but I'm not like going back to back to back. Like I'm giving myself some time to rest. Okay, I like anabolic. Maps and a bulk. Yeah, I think you need to change your programming up. Also be careful of getting in the trap of I feel like I could be improving faster. Okay. So careful with that trap because if you're improving, you're doing good. And I've seen more people make mistakes by saying, ooh, I'm improving, but I could improve faster. And they autocorrect. They just, they overdo it or they change up their training when they shouldn't have or their diet changes weren't appropriate. So as long as you're progressing in some way, shape or form, more stability, better control, more energy, more strength, better connection to the muscle, like as long as you're improving, you're improving. And be careful with the like, because here's what people tend to do. Oh, I could be making faster progress. They almost never scale the workouts down. They almost always add more. They just throw more on top of what they're doing. And that's usually the wrong thing to do when you're already improving. I think Maps and a Bollocks gonna take your body and your strength to another level. That combined with a 250 to 300 calorie increase is what I would do. That's it. I think that would be perfect. So bump your calories a couple hundred and then switch to anabolic and stay there for a little bit. Especially that contrast. If you've just been doing splits the whole time, like to do like total body workouts, I've found a lot of my clients like immediately their body responded. Totally. So I'm excited for it. 100%, do you train to failure or you make sure you stop a couple reps before that? Yeah, I don't really like to train to failure because I feel like, I mean, I'm open to it, but I feel like I get frustrated like when I'm like really failing. So I think that, I think it just depends on the day like where my mind's at as well. But I think I've kind of been scared to like take the next jump into like really going like heavy or going like all full body. Cause I think like I can be my own worst critic and I can like get the best of myself. So that's hard to get past. But I think, you know, I kind of want to like get out of that comfort zone that I've been in. Sorry, I was getting a call. Get out of that comfort zone that I've been in and kind of take things to the next step and go from there to see what I'm capable of. Yeah, I don't think going to failure is a good idea. I think just stopping a couple, yeah, stop a couple reps short of it. I think maps on a ball is going to blow you away. After that, I think map symmetry would be a good program to follow up. Don't be afraid of this though, either. Okay, so this, cause this is really common with my female clients. This is something I had to constantly remind Katrina when it comes to like pushing strength and trying to get strong. Okay, we're going to increase your calories. So that's going to help right away. We're going to switch you to a full body routine instead of a split. That's, that's going to help. When you get into a phase like the first phase of anabolic where it calls for like five reps, always, you know, stop two reps short of failure, but also don't be afraid to push the weight to where maybe you can only get three or four out. So you don't always have to get to five just cause the program says five or put a weight on the bar that you know for sure you could get seven. So start to try and push yourself weight-wise, like put weight on the bar that you maybe haven't done and pay attention to how your body's moving through the reps. And if you notice like, oh wow, I'm almost at failure. Okay, that's okay. You can stop at three reps. It's okay to do three reps, even though the program's not calling for three reps. That was something I always had to remind Katrina when we're in that because we're focused on building strength right now. And I want her to learn to push the weight and go harder. She would always choose a weight that she knew she could get five. And I'd be like, I know you got more than that. Put another 10 pounds on there. You got this. And if you feel like you can't get five, stop at four. Stop at three. But try and challenge your strength in that phase, especially since we're putting you in a calorie surplus that'll hopefully add some muscle. Okay, so the surplus, should I go off like the 18 to 2000, like where I'm at now? Yes, yes. Yep, 200 to 250 above that. Okay, and then in terms of my protein, I'm at like 140. Is that good to stay around or should I? Obviously that'll increase a little bit too, right? What's your body weight? I'm 159 right now. You can keep it at 140. Yeah, you don't need to go higher than that. If it goes up though a little bit, that ain't a big deal either too. No, it's not. Yeah, yeah, so if you increase calories and you do it through some protein and you go to 150 or 160, that ain't a problem. As long as you feel good, right? So as long as you are digesting the protein okay and feel good, then yeah, don't worry if you go up another 10 or 20 grams. Not a big deal. Okay, gotcha. And you said the bulk for how long? God, I would put you on a bulk for at least like four to six weeks before we interrupt it with like a little bit of a cut. So run that calorie intake like we're saying for a good four to six weeks and just see how you're responding. Hopefully you feel good. Hopefully you don't see a rapid increase of body fat. Hopefully you feel strength go up and then maybe interrupt it with a short one week cut and then go back to the bulk again. Here you go. Okay, gotcha. All right, awesome. Cool. Thank you, Tess. All right, thank you guys. I really appreciate you. You got it. Thanks for calling in. That's actually the trap I fall into the most often is where I feel good and I progress and then I add more. I think that is the most common for me at least that's the most common trap. I mean, I think I actually think that's probably almost everybody. I think that. Well, I know a lot of people will stop progressing and add more. I'm pretty good when I stop progressing it, figuring out, oh, I gotta back off. But when I'm flying, that's when I throw a bunch of shit on top of what I'm doing. I almost always screw it up. Well, I think that we just, we all are guilty of this of like, it's just such a slow process. Yeah. And you, and I think you hit it perfect by asking her like, like if you're progressing, by the way, especially as you get deeper into this journey, if I'm progressing, I am winning. That's it. I don't care if it's hella incremental, it's tiny. It's like if it's in the, because it's very easy to either one plateau or go the other direction. That's right. So if I'm moving in the right direction, I ain't really fucking with much at all. Like that we're doing things right if I'm moving in the right direction. It's when I plateau or go the opposite direction, I really need a course correct. So I think that's the mistake you're right that people make is they're like, yeah, I've only added a few pounds on the bar or I've only leaned out a little bit. And it's like, dude, you're doing good. Stay the course. Yeah. I've noticed that people who like you guys the most tend to have trouble progressing. Yeah, they're so happy. They're just happy, not progressing. Just happy, being awesome. That's crazy. Just kidding. Our next caller is Laura from Washington. Hey Laura, how can we help you? Hi guys. Thank you for taking my question. And also thank you for the podcast. I found y'all about a year ago. And I absolutely blew the door open for me in so many ways. The only problem has been I find it really hard to listen to any other health or fitness podcast that are so entertaining. That was the plan, just so you know. Well, you did a good job. So thank you. Thank you. So my first question is not in a judgment way. Truly, I got to week three of phase one of anabolic. And I realized I hadn't done a row in three weeks. And I was just really curious, why are there no rows programmed in the strength phase of anabolic? Well, there's lots of rows in the rest of the program. Although in phase one, are there really no rows, Doug? Maybe you can pull that up, because I'm not sure about that. But nonetheless, the deadlifts are really, really heavy. So you're going to get a lot of mid-back stimulation. And the focus of phase one is building a lot of strength in three core lifts, right, or four, right? Your bench press, your overhead press, your squat, and your deadlift. As you move into phase two and phase three, then the routine gets a little bit more nuanced. You're looking at more hypertrophy, pumps, connection to the rest of the body. But that phase one, we're trying to just get you really, really strong at these fundamental movements, deadlift, squat, overhead press, bench press. Those are the most important aspects of that phase one. Now you wouldn't do phase one forever, because it's incomplete if you just did it that way. It's only three weeks long for a reason. And that's because you move into other phases with other exercises that really complete the training philosophy, I guess, of the training program. Barbell rows come in, I think, phase two. Is that where it comes in, Doug? Yeah, it looks like it. So there are weighted pull-ups, for example, in phase one. Yeah, everything in phase one is geared towards making you as strong as possible in those core lifts. That's really the main thing. Then you move into phase two, phase three, and then you really get into training the body, breaking it down a little bit more, hypertrophy, bodybuilding. And then later on, it's more strength stamina. But that first phase is like, we wanna get you really strong at these kind of four main lifts. Have you, Laura, have you heard me talk about my experience of switching over to just focusing on deadlifting and letting go of all the other movements for back rows and stuff like that, and then my experience of coming back to it? Have you heard me share that before on the podcast? I don't know that I have. So this was a really interesting phase of my training. It didn't happen until a way later. It actually didn't happen until the three of us all got together. And I went on this kick, which I'm sure you have heard me talk about, where I was trying to catch Sal in his deadlift. And at this point in my life, I had never really deadlifted consistently or set a goal of I wanna get really strong with a deadlift. And so this required me deadlifting three times a week and I really stopped doing a lot of my other backersizes. I let go of pull-ups, I let go of rows, I let go of a lot of dumbbell movements. And just everything I did was centered around getting good at the deadlift and complimenting that, whether it'd be deficit deads or doing off of blocks or doing mobility work to work on everything. And the part that was so crazy was after a year of training like that, I remember going back to seated rows that I had been doing my whole life training and I was stronger at seated rows than I'd ever been in my entire life just from getting really strong at the deadlift. And I share that story on the podcast a lot to explain to people and put emphasis on how powerful it is to get to focus on getting really strong at your deadlift and how much carryover it has to all these other movements. And I know, obviously this is hindsight looking back why when Sal, because Sal created Map Santa Balac without us, he obviously understood this even before I did. And when he programmed that, like that was the thought process as he knows, like if I can get these people to get really strong in their deadlift, these other movements that we traditionally do in the gym they're gonna be stronger. And so hopefully you see that from what we've seen. And to be very clear, if you did that forever, then yeah, you probably be missing on some balance, right? You start to develop some imbalances. So there's tons of value in doing other movements as well. But the deadlift, especially for a three week period, which is phase one, has got so much carryover to all these other lifts. There's so much value to it. Now you'll notice there's pull-ups in phase one. And that's because of all the muscles of the back, the one area where you probably would wanna do more direct work when you're just deadlifting is something that targets the lats. Now you're still activating the lats with the deadlift and you'll still see some muscularity there. But a pull-up or a pull-down is gonna be more direct there. So that's why phase one kind of looks that way. But again, phase two, phase three, now you're incorporating other lifts and it becomes much more complete. Yeah, okay, that answers my question, thank you. And I did, I hit my first, this is the first time I've ever, I've done performance and aesthetics, and then I ran out of ball it. And I, for the first time hit a PR at my deadlift, but it's the first time I've really focused on truly mentally just going for the one or two lifts, rather than, I still always struggle to like not wanna at least do four. Yeah. So I did notice a huge strength gain in my deadlifts, which brings me to my second question and I'll try to make it quick cause I know there was a time delay with getting me on here. So I've done some research on it and I kind of already found a few answers but I'm really struggling with increasing my squat strength and I really think it has to do with possibly my CNS or me feeling safe, but the squat is one that I really want to get to that place where I feel comfortable just doing one or two reps. But I just mentally hit this block where I put the weight on and I can feel my form start to break down, but then when I lower the weight I can do six if that makes sense. So I'm struggling to find that. So my next question was, I was looking, I didn't know if possibly incorporating more trap bar deadlifts at a deficit cause I think it's at the very bottom. So either I need to do more pause squat. I'm not sure. I'm asking. Yeah, I think that would be great. And two like tension squats, I guess is how I would coin these, but priming with this with the dumpy squat, which is where you kind of push up with a stick in order to kind of direct a lot of that muscular tension to feel like you're more supported and you're getting a louder signal out of your CNS. I think really like slowing down, maybe not maybe taking some of the weight off and because obviously you're more comfortable with that right now and that's like something that you gotta kind of work through but to be able to stay a little bit longer at the bottom of that squat and really reinforce that by squeezing and intentionally taking that time to squeeze as much tension out of muscles as you possibly can and then going through reps and cycles of that I think is gonna be really helpful. So I have two things I like and I actually do like your trap bar deadlift idea. I mean, I think that there's, especially when it's like a psychological thing of just like getting comfortable with putting that much weight and then coming out of the hole at the bottom. So getting strong cause you probably feel safer loading the trap bar even more. So I do like that idea. I also like this if you have this ability if you have a squat rack where you can put safety bars up I would put them at right where the bottom of my squat is and actually load the bar even heavier than what you've ever done and actually take the bar down as slow as you can and then set it down and then get out from underneath it. This is gonna take a little bit of effort. It would be ideal if you were with another person who could help you re-rack and do it. But what that will do, you talk about it being, you know, you might be on the right track of this being a CNS thing of you just learning to control that much weight and get over the psychological hurdle of, oh my God, this is scary. So you load that and you know the safety bars are at the bottom are gonna catch you there. So your goal is to just slowly go down into the hole as slow as you can and then let it set on the safety bar then climb out underneath it, strip the weights off, set it up again, give yourself some rest, do it again and get yourself comfortable. I remember this exact feeling of when I really first got into squatting, I was lifting with these guys that were power lifters and at that point in my life, like squatting 135 was actually really heavy. So I'm like 17, 18 years old at this time and these guys put 225 on there. Like it was so beyond and I was like scared to death. I'm like, I don't wanna do this. I can't even get closest. Why am I doing this? He's like, I just want you to feel the weight. And I remember after doing that, how quickly my strength went up because they were right. Like it was this, my body then got comfortable with just stabilizing that much weight. So then when I actually went to 185 which was less than what they put on my back all of a sudden it didn't feel so scary anymore because I had stretched myself that way. Now I had the support of them squatting, holding me but if I had to do it on my own I would do it the way I just told you. Yeah, I like that. I mean too, these are a little bit more advanced moves but if you did have access to rubber bands as well to put for an assistance so that way too you get that sort of elastic energy help on the weight at the very bottom. Obviously it increases the help as you go lower but at least that way you could stack up to Adam's point of like being able to feel heavier weight at the top. It really will help to kind of get your body acclimated to that. Yeah, what's gonna give you the most bang for your buck right now honestly is the pause squats. Staying tight, box squats, sit on a box, pause on the box, tighten up and then stand back up. You know the heavy negatives that Adam said is good too that'll make you really sore though and that can be a bit scary for somebody but you just wanna do something right now that's not gonna take a lot of skill. Pause with the weight that you can handle and hold it at the bottom for five seconds. That by itself, that alone will help you out. Thank you, I appreciate it. I listened recently and I know there was a little back and forth. There was a few ladies arguing about how they didn't feel like there was enough legs in some of these programs. And to be honest with you, I was finding myself not on purpose, but getting to that point where I was like, man, I don't feel like I hit my legs but I truly believe, especially in the strength, it's because I never pushed myself to that level and I was really struggling. So, you know, six and I'm like, man, I know I can do more mentally. I think because I didn't feel like I was succeeding, I was like, I still gotta do something else for my legs because I didn't, you know, I wouldn't have successful at it. So, I think that's absolutely great advice. I will take all of it and I will continue to put the hard work in and I appreciate you guys having me on today. Yeah, Laura real quick, when you notice the strength gains in MAPS and Ebola, I'm gonna make a guess that your deadlift and squat made bigger gains in your overhead press and your bench press, probably significantly. Yes, absolutely. I am recovering a little bit from an AC joint. I didn't realize for so many years I was doing bench press, not totally, anyways, long story short. So, yes, my deadlifts and my squats absolutely went off. Yeah, and here's the irony. People who say that they feel like it's more upper body, you look at the strength gains and making the squat and the deadlift blows away the gains that they made in some of those other lifts. So, it is a hip dominant program. And so, when people say that, they don't understand that there's biceps, triceps, delts, you know, traps, chest, and legs, they say quads, hams, calves, you know, and then some glute stuff. So, it's just less muscles, bigger gross motor movements and it's a very, very equal program when it comes to training the body. But anyway, thanks for calling in. Yeah, I love it. Thank you. Thank you, Laura. I think I gained almost two pounds of muscle in the last month and a half. So, I was blown away and this is after weightlifting for seven years. So, I was shocked. That's awesome, Laura. Thanks, Laura. Thank you. So, thank you guys very much. You got it. Dude, I'm so glad she said that right now. Yeah. That's why I asked that, because we get that sometimes and especially from women. And she hit on the head exactly the women that have made those comments is, if you were to push yourself on those squat days and on those deadlifts, I promise you your body will definitely adapt, will definitely grow. You do not need, technically, any more exercises in the routine. It's that you haven't been able to push yourself on those exercises. She's got the right mentality, too. It's like knowing that it's a little bit of uncertainty there for her as she wants to load, has to put the work in now to train the body to get in that mindset to be able to support the joints and have her feel like this is gonna be a good lift for her. Listen, it was just like the last caller and I was given the advice that, Katrina's been lifting for over 10, 15 years and I still have to remind her this, it's just my female clients are always gonna lean on the safer side and they're gonna control the weight, which there's lots of benefits to that, right? Their form mechanics, they tend to be better, but then that's the downfall is to get them to really push the limits of stretching themselves with weight and then giving them that freedom of like, just because the program calls for five it doesn't mean that you can't load the bar up and then when you're at rep three go, oh, shit, I might not get to five, so you stop at three, there's nothing wrong with that, but that's how I have to talk to Katrina all the time is like, listen, I want you to load the bar as if you don't have to get to five, don't think that you have to get to five, load the bar with more weight than you're ever used to and then if you don't think you can get to five then stop at three or four, not to wrong with that. I do blame the workouts for women that you see online where there's like 50 different leg exercises, jump lunges, and side lunges. Yeah, but 40 of them are the stupid, silly, pointless. Yeah, worthless exercises, like that's the problem. Like, oh, this is way less legs than I'm used to. And that's what it is. Watch what happens. You're right, and they're used to that. Their legs burn. My legs burn when I do this or they get this pump because all you're doing is pumping fluid into them and stuff like that and so they think that it's a better leg workout. It's like, no, that's not how it works. Our next caller is Lila from California. Lila, how can we help you? Hi, it's crazy to be here, you guys. Thank you so much for having me. You got it, thanks for listening. I've been listening to you guys since I was 16. I'm 20 now, and it was right when I started college. I'm about to graduate on Friday, actually. So you guys have been with me in my little AirPods working out for years. Congratulations. Thank you. Okay, so a little bit about my background. Since I started listening to you guys, I've been training hypertrophy for pretty consistently for those four years. I never really focused on my physique, just the mental benefits of it and just how much fun it was. And so I totally worked that into routine and honestly I can't imagine living without it because I never really focused on physique or any kind of nutrition. I never made that much progress and I stayed pretty lean those four years and but I just had fun with it. And so the past few months I've gained some weight and I feel so much better in my body but I still didn't really make that much progress with my lifts and the weights that I've been using or grow that much muscle. And so then I went on a run and then two days later decided to sign up for a half marathon just because why not? And I'm kind of hardcore. And so I did this trail run, this epic trail run up north in Marin and it came down across the Golden Gate Bridge. And since then I've been running a lot and I've noticed that my legs have grown so much more than they ever have in the hypertrophy and I'm just wondering your take on that. And then I also noticed on my long runs I can do about 15 miles now. My legs give out faster than my cardio endurance and I can have a conversation at mile 11 but my legs give out more and because I have the strength background I know it isn't necessarily because my legs aren't strong so I'm just wondering your take on this. Wow, okay, so hold on a second. Are you an athlete? Do you play any sports or is this just all working out on your own type of stuff? I grew up playing soccer and softball but mostly just working out. Okay, are you parents athletes? No. Yeah, okay, so people who build leg muscles doing long distance running have really, really in my experience have really crazy muscle building genetics. Where are you getting the muscle in your legs mostly? Is it mostly in your calves and quads? Quads and calves, yeah. Okay, so quads and calves is typically we'll see and I've trained women like this well they'll come to me and all they do is long distance running and they got these like big ball calves and then quads but they tend to have issues with their hamstrings and glutes and that's where we tend to see the imbalance. You probably have some really, really crazy muscle building genetics and I'm assuming with your weight training, your programming might not have been super great so we'd wanna look at that but let me ask you right now, what are your goals right now? Are you trying to get better at the marathon running or do you wanna just build muscle and strength or like what are your ultimate goals here? So for a while it's been just kind of building muscle and strength but I'm about to like graduate college and I have a job that I'm probably gonna be spending like 70, 80 hours a week working, pretty sedentary. So I'm kind of trying to like adjust my goals based on just staying overall fit and keep my metabolism going and still having fun with training. Okay well what do you find most fun right now then? Let's talk about that. Oh, like running and biking. Okay, Maps Cardio. I'm gonna send you Maps Cardio. This is a, their strength training is involved but it's a stamina endurance based workout program and it leaves room for activities that you enjoy doing, things like running, biking. It sounds to me like you like just to be active and it also sounds to me that you like to be active outside. I know you live in San Francisco so you're in the Bay Area so you have a lot of access to outdoor trails and great places to run and the weather's typically pretty pleasant. I think Maps Cardio would be the absolute perfect program for you so I'm gonna send that over to you because I think that'll be something that you enjoy. But look, your soccer background, you're probably a really fast sprinter. The fact that you build muscle on your legs when you do a lot of running, like I can, that tells me that you got some muscle building genetics there that you haven't really tapped into which is kind of cool. Yeah, very cool. Yeah, that's so interesting just because I spent so much time weight training and I got upper body, I got lean but I never grew muscle size. Well, a lot of that's gonna depend on diet but also- Programming. Yeah, programming and you might, I've worked with people like this and they do well with frequent stimulation, frequent stimulation, frequent. And so quads and calves is where if you get any hypertrophy from running, that's where you'll get it. Now a lot of people won't get any hypertrophy from running, maybe a little bit if they're sedentary and they start running but most people, if they go from lifting to running to lose but some people who've got this type of genetics, that frequent stimulation, just frequent. So I think of like a full body, three day a week routine, strength training, I think trigger sessions, I think double split bodybuilding routines where the intensity is modified may be something that you respond really well to. Also keep in mind, okay? You weren't running this much before, you were already somebody who were relatively lean already, you start running like crazy, you could have also leaned out. And when you lean out, it looks like you build muscle. I mean, I'll never forget the first time that I got really shredded and I lost like 20 pounds and everybody was like, dude, you're jacked, you put it on like all this muscle and it's like, no, I didn't. I actually just, all I did was lean out and I got rid of body fat. Now you see my muscle definition and so it looks like I built these legs or built these shoulders. So keep that in mind too. So it sounds right, there are anomalies of people that do run and they actually do see some quad and calf, but then you also weren't running like that before and now you're running a ton, you easily could have leaned out and now you're seeing the definition in your quads and your calves like you've never seen before. And so it looks like, oh shit, I built all this muscle when in reality, the muscle was there, you just revealed it. Yeah, go ahead, Leva. Sorry, no, I was gonna say that's interesting because the scale weight has definitely gone up and my pants have gotten tighter. You know what's funny? Yeah, okay, my wife is like this. So when I met my wife, she did some strength training, but it was like cardio with weights, but she had a history of distance running and her calves and quads were jacked, just calves and quads were, and my wife has got, she's got bodybuilder genetics much more than I do and frequent stimulation is what makes her grow. So if she just did a lot of anything on a daily basis, that muscle tends to grow. So, like I said, it's not common, but I think MAPS cardio, I think after MAPS cardio, if you really wanna have fun with the bodybuilding style of training, I'd say go for MAPS aesthetic and see what happens. I have something to, I've seen this with some athletes, I've trained as well as this sort of phenomenon with that, but in my experience, I've seen that whatever it was that they train for a lot when they're younger, that was something that, it was almost like a muscle memory effect to it. Yeah, good point. To where they started to stimulate the muscle in that regard, and then they saw those type of, the muscles just responded because it was something that, it hadn't been put to use for in a long time. So I don't know if that plays a factor in what you're going through, but I have seen that phenomenon. Yeah, so I mean, if I were to guess that, what kind of strength training would make you build, it would probably be 15 to 20 reps, it would probably be some incorporation of supersats. Dude, strong would be a program that is so posterior chain heavy and she's already not like boot ham dominant. And like, I think that would be an awesome follow up. But I think for fun and you enjoy it and you feel, you know, kind of, you feel healthy, you look healthy from looking at you, I think you would enjoy maps cardio because it's going to give you all the strength. Yeah, cardio right now. And then I would like to see strong. So I have a question because you mentioned like getting ready to go, when you start working these 70 hour work weeks, are you maintaining the running or is that going to go? I hope so. I hope so on weekends and getting up at like, I don't know, six and morning. Maps cardio is going to be perfect. Yeah, she's young too. She doesn't have any other responsibilities. Besides, I mean, seriously, when you're young, 80 hours a week, you still got plenty of time to do other shit. Maps cardio is perfect for you right now. I think it's a great result. What field are you going to be working at, a curiosity? I'm going to private equity, so finance. Oh, there you go. Very cool. Yeah. I love hearing you guys talk about investments. Excellent, excellent. You just became cooler. Well, thanks for following the show, Lyle. I love hearing about the fact that you followed us since you were 16 till now. Yeah, very cool. Seriously. Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you. No, thank you guys so much. You got it. Yeah, take care. You got it. Yeah, it's super rare, but I've definitely run into people where they build doing shit that's not supposed to make you build. She definitely did it. She said that her pants got tighter and the scale went up. Now, the other factor here is diet. Like jumping rope. Yeah, yes. I've seen that with athletes and their calves just exploding their quads. But the other part, and by the way, if any muscles will grow from high, high, high reps, lots and lots of frequency, it's calves and quads. They tend to be the body parts that tend to do that. Those are the ones. They do. Nonetheless, here's the other factor is diet. And sometimes what happens when people start to really burn a lot of calories through activities, or appetite goes through the roof, and they don't notice necessarily that they've eaten 600 more calories a day. So that's the other factor too. Like she could have been strength training, but could have been under eating, and then finally fed herself. And then all that like back pressure of muscle, you know, muscles wanting to build, now finally gets to, you know, come to fruition. I think that's actually a really good point, Sal. Especially when you talk about a little 100-pound female like this, because there's a good chance she wasn't even getting adequate protein to build good muscle. Now she's eating a good amount of calories and probably hitting protein intake, and then just the stimulus alone. And maybe to Justin's point, this is an area, she was a soccer player before, the muscles went, oh, that's what we've been looking for. Did I remember this? Yeah, fed her, stimulated, and she grew. So that's very much so a possibility. Look, if you like Mind Pump, head over to mindpumpfree.com and check out our guides. We have guides that can help you with almost any health or fitness goal. You can also find all of us on social media. So Justin is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Justin. Adam is on Instagram at Mind Pump, Adam. And you can only find me on Twitter at Mind Pump Sal. Today we're gonna teach you everything you need to know to build a strong, well-developed chest. When I think of weak points and areas that I struggled with developing for a really long time, chest was up there with the work. Yeah, it was for me, it was for me for sure. I got more caught up in the weight I could lift versus how I was developing my body. I think it's one of the most challenging muscles to develop for most people because the form and technique.