 Hi Yameyane. Hello Audrey. Nice to meet you. Hello, I'm Audrey Tom. Good local time. We'd like to hear a lot from you. The current situation of Taiwan where the infection is contained. How do the people living right now, how are they living for the people now? Well, we still wear a mask, keep our social distance, wash our hands all the time, but otherwise life is normal. This mask is from the Pride parade. We had two of them last year. So the restaurants and the bars are operating normally and the people why and dying? That's exactly right, but by adhering to the social distance and mask wearing principles, starting from winter, there's going already a fine for people who get in the crowded places, but that do not wear a mask, but otherwise life is normal. In Wuhan, the virus was found and you, Audrey, what did you think and how did you move? In the very beginning, that's, well, in 2019, December, Dr. Lee Wenliang from Wuhan posted a social media post that said, and I quote, there were seven new SARS cases found, unquote, and that news made into the rounds in Taiwan on PTT, the Taiwanese equivalent of Reddit. And so people upvoted it a lot. So the very next day, starting January first, a year ago, that people who bought any plane that coming in from Wuhan to Taiwan, we started health inspections. So literally, I guess, Dr. Lee Wenliang saved the Taiwanese people and we thank him for it. So in the very beginning, I think the infection cases were very small. However, you, Audrey, did you feel a sense of crisis even at that time? I guess anyone who are above 30 years old in Taiwan felt a sense of crisis when we saw the acronym SARS in Dr. Lee Wenliang's message. It rings an alarm bell to everyone in Taiwan who were there, including me in 2003. So in Taiwan, you have experience of suffering SARS. So listen, learn from SARS. So you learned a lot and you leveraged on that experience. That's exactly right. For example, during SARS, masks, especially medical grade and N95 in particular, was in short supply. And so between SARS and now, there's been a lot of measures in making sure there's sufficient stockpile of medical grade masks, of making sure that not only pharmacy, but also convenience stores have the license to sell those medical grade masks. And of course, this time around, we came out with the rationing system that nowadays, anyone with their national health card can get 10 medical masks per two weeks in nearby pharmacies or convenience stores. That means 17 years ago, SARS occurred, something similar to SARS COVID-19. You started preparing for it and have been preparing for such a long time. That's right. That's exactly right. And by preparing, I mean, not only the logistics like the masks, but also the legislation, the communicable diseases act in particular, that authorize a very strict border quarantine way so that we do not have to counter SARS 2.0 or COVID-19 in the same unprepared way as we did in 2003. And from the point of a Japanese view, the team of the test team to respond to COVID-19, most of the members are, all of the members are civilians. How did you come up with this idea? I think in Taiwan, we already have a lot of good collaboration with civic technologies. The GOV-0, G-0V in Taiwan, which is like code for Japan in Japan, already participates in many disaster relief, as well as air quality, water quality measurements counter this information and things like that, because there's already a strong mutual trust between the social sector on one side and the public sector on the other. It is natural for us to trust the GOV-0 civic hackers with open API, that's real-time open data in, for example, the mask availability. So all of them, the members are civilians, but the government staff, they make requests to the task force, don't they make requests or complain to the task team? Doesn't it happen at all? Yeah, it's both ways, right? So when we first had the mask availability map invented by Howard Wu and Fijian County in Tainan City, of course, it saves time. People don't have to go to pharmacies that are already out of masks. On the other hand, the pharmacists also invented take a number system where people go to the pharmacy, hand them their national IC healthcare card in return for a number, and they can go back on the evening with that number in exchange for the mask and the codback. Now, these two social innovations individually saves time by themselves, but when they go together, they explode like Mentos plus Coca-Cola because on the mask map, for those pharmacies that hand out the numbers, it will look like they sell nothing for a while, and then during lunch break, where they process the cost, it sells everything, and so it looks very suspicious. And we resolve that by making sure anyone can call the toll-free number 1922, and there's a strong solidarity between the civic technologists and the pharmacists who brainstorm to fix the problem by first listing the opening hours for numbers, and then for masks in two different fields, and finally offering a button when the pharmacists push, they can disappear from the map as soon as the numbers run out. And so these two implemented in very quick succession fix the problem created by those two social innovations. That means the politics and the civilian team are in good collaboration, it means. Yes, it's because at the time, the Vice President Dr. Chen Jianren, the author of Epidemiology and the original person that put an end to SARS in 2003, he recorded a massive online open course to teach epidemiology to everyone who wants to learn, including myself. So everybody understood as long as we can get three quarters of people in Taiwan wearing masks and washing our hands, then the R value will be below one, and the disease will be under control. So is this epidemiologically informed common value that informs the social innovators on one side and government technologists on the other? I learned about your response in TV and journal, and this team, task team, without limitation of time, had press conference, and their effort was really understood by people in Taiwan. That is exactly correct. And when the CECC does a central epidemic month sensor in post, for example, starting January 15, that's two days from now, which is recording time Wednesday, I should say that again, because we're not going to air on Thursday, right? So sorry, let me do this again. That's indeed correct. So when the CECC does a central epidemic month sensor in post any new quarantine measures, for example, starting January 15, we're tightening the quarantine measure to make sure that each person either go to a group quarantine facility or quarantine hotel, or if they quarantine at home, they must meet the requirement of one person per residence, and only nationals and people holding residence certificates can go to Taiwan now. So when these new measures are introduced, the CECC took plenty of time to pre-announce it and explain the scientific criteria and make sure that anyone can call the toll free number 1922 to get a full explanation of why this measure is taken during the height of the winter in anticipation of the holiday, as well as the variants of the virus now being disseminated across the world. So there's plenty of time to understand, absorb the scientific premise of any new measure. I think I saw it on TV. More than 100 days, they made press confidence. And then the people will believe it. Is that true? Yes. And every day at 2 p.m., the press conference is such that any journalist can keep asking questions, and the press conference doesn't stop until all the questions are answered. So how many days are required to pass away the people? I would say it's an ongoing process. You can never stop. If we stop the CECC press conference altogether, then whenever a new measure comes up or whenever a new development in the situation comes up, then there's no way for the trustworthiness previously earned to cover for this new situation. So the answer is indefinitely. It has to run either every day or every week, but there need to be a predictable temple for answering all the questions from the journalistic community. We must also include humor in addressing the situation. I hear you said that. Yes, it's called humor over rumor. We made sure that the CECC measures are explained in terms of a very cute Spokes dog. Song Chai is the name. And the dog shares, for example, when you're indoor, keep three Shiba Inus away. When you're outdoor, keep two Shiba Inus away. Or, for example, wear a mask to protect your own face against your own unwashed hands. When I say this, you may remember, but when the Spokes dog say it, you will not only remember, but also laugh about it and share it with other people. How do you think the government formed trust? Taiwan also has a severe penalty. Well, in the case of Japan, it's hard to do that because of the restriction on private rights. While you have very severe penalty, how did you form the trust between people and government? Because we took a hard look at everything that went wrong in 2003. The constitutional court in Taiwan in 2004 said to the legislature that the kind of chaotic response during 2003 is barely constitutional, referring to the locking down of the Hoping hospital. And so it charged the legislature during the post-SARS time when the memory is still fresh to draw up new laws and regulations that will set up the Central Epidemic Command Center, as well as imbue it with the kind of rights and duties to find to a very high degree people who are not collaborating with the medical officers in like quarantine and isolation measures. So I would suggest any jurisdiction to basically after vaccination, when the memory is still fresh, do something similar. Also, while you have penalty, the government also should trust people like the restaurants and operators and so on. Yes, in Taiwan, the nightlife district, the business owners for like the host and hostess bots are also part of our counter pandemic effort. Not only do they work with the same mosque and physical distance rules, but also they maintain the so-called real contact system that asks for the patrons to register maybe under a pseudonym, but always with a working SIM card number. It can be a prepaid SIM card or an email that could reach them and verify it on the spot. Now, if nothing happens for 28 days in that institution, of course, this is shredded. So we are not asking for them to identify themselves or report to the CECC. However, if there is a local outbreak, then we can finish the contact tracing very quickly by contacting the people that needs to be contacted. And so this is a balance between the privacy requirements for the nightlife district and the need for the contact tracers. I see. That means in Japan, we request shortening hours of operations for restaurants because it is said that the infection is likely to occur there and those people are suffering. Of course, there's a risk. However, in Taiwan, those people who are involved in this kind of industry should be considered a member who tries to contain the infection. I think the Taiwan case is because we have really a very strict border quarantine measure. Now, I'm happy to learn that Japan has also tightened up the border measure for admitting travelers to Japan. And in Taiwan, because we do believe that quarantining at the borders is preferable to basically softening at the borders and let the virus run free in many of the self-imposed quarantines, we are really quite tight in that. But we also make sure people are paid a fair stipend every day. They earn USD maybe $33 for their effort working with the quarantine for the 14 days. And no employer can fire an employee for going into a necessary quarantine or isolation and so on. And so there is an equity-based measure being implemented here. So much so that people will understand as long as there's no community spread, then of course the boss, the restaurants, the hostess boss are part of the defense. On the other hand, Japan is in the second phase of emergency situation. Every day, we mark the 2,000 new cases. So from a point of view, how do you see Japanese current situation? I think wearing a mask, washing one's hands, staying at home, telework and so on. This may sound really basic, but if people understand the scientific reason for doing so and trust each other, then these measures can be implemented in a consistent fashion, which will all together bring the R value to be under one. In the case of Japan, of course people wear masks and people wash hands. However, it's very hard to contain the infection and we see the surge of infection on the other hand. I hear you, but in Taiwan what we are saying is that if we tighten up the border quarantine and keep our value to be under one, then individual local transmissions are not likely to become large local outbreaks. Large auto outbreaks in the communities, for example, you mentioned restaurants and bars and so on, are only possible if a pocket of people somehow do not understand the measures or remind each other to keep a strict adherence to the measures like mask wearing and hand sanitation. This is why we imposed a fine to refusing to wear a mask after being reminded in crowded spaces during the winter, even though we actually had to know local spread, but the individual local transmissions may always become a local spread unless people keep adhering to those different measures that altogether bring down the R value. The people in Taiwan they listen to what you say very carefully and loyally and adhere to the instructions. That has led to this containment. This is the other way around in February for a while, like 48 hours. The Central Epidemic Command Center experts were saying maybe we should save the masks for the care workers and maybe in well-ventilated places like the metro, maybe healthy people do not need to wear a mask. But even though it's said like that, the people all wore a mask and criticized the CECC by saying the masks are not sufficient for everybody, people are saying maybe you should make more masks. And so in 48 hours, we took a U-turn and said, yeah, wear a mask after all. And we will work to rent out the production from under 2 million a day to now over 20 million a day. And so I think this is not a case of a very top-down measure. This is the people after SARS having a collective memory insisting that the government need to provide plenty of medical great masks to everybody. So, so-called SARS experience, SARS left some people raised the voice and the government responding to it quickly and changed the course. That's exactly right. So I think all the society have their first encounter with SARS, right? We had our first encounter in 2003. Now many countries are having their first experience with what I call SARS 2.0, but we can always work on institutional and logistic and technological preparations for SARS 3.0, which will come just we don't know whether it's next year or 10 years from now. The people in Taiwan don't they have any dissatisfaction over the severe penalty or something like that? Any other buzz? Well, any penalty have people who feel it's not strong enough and the people who feel that it's maybe too strong. And I would say that CECC is striking a very good balance on both explaining the scientific reason for those measures as well as making sure that those penalties are enforced with equity with no exceptions. So by having heard your story, so daily every day you come up with data and if you find any mistakes or errors, you change it very quickly. Yes, we very quickly admit our mistake. For example, I mentioned about the pharmacist taking a number system and a mass availability map. We apologized almost immediately to the pharmacist and instead of saying, hey, our way is right. Your way is wrong. We say, no, of course you are right because they are the pharmacists trusted by the community and we didn't anticipate this interaction. So we went to WAC and roll out a fix the very next week. And so as soon as those fixes are rolled out, people get the signal that the government really trusts the citizen in the here and now in a very timely fashion. I see. So having heard what you say, the people raised voice and the government analyzed and when they agree, they quickly change the course and admit or approve what people want. Yes, this is what we call a all of society approach. This is another story I heard. You have universal health care with the relationship with Japan and Taiwan. I hear that the Taiwanese government learned from the system from Japan in the beginning. Is that right? Yes, we learned a lot from our relationship with Japan, especially around disaster relief and countering earthquake and typhoons after mass, right? Both of our country have a lot of experience with earthquakes and typhoon. So for example, our advanced earthquake warnings and flood warnings. We learned about by actually looking at the Japanese system. And this time around, we also modified the system for SMS based earthquake and flood warnings so that a sense of warning, for example, when someone breaks the quarantine by tracing their phone using cell phone tower signal. So it's not GPS or Wi-Fi or Bluetooth, but just cell phone strength tower for the telecoms to send the SMS when the phone breaks out of the quarantine and so on. That's called the digital fence and we learned that from the earthquake and typhoon warning systems. Japan is suffering to figure out how to make economy and infection response both available. How do you do this? How do you see this? In Taiwan, we made sure that when the small and medium enterprises, especially the catering and the face-to-face community were being kind of substituted by the online like e-commerce during the height of the pandemic, we wrote out the relief funds for them. And later on, we also wrote out stimulus vouchers so that only for face-to-face consumption, when you spend 3,000 NT dollars, we refund two-thirds of it back to your account. And so because of this measure, people are more willing to go out and shop. But that's because we put the R-value and Taiwan and the spread of the disease under control so that we move from the relief phase to the stimulus phase. So may I ask one fundamental question? Why Taiwan was able to contain the infection? What is the biggest contributing factor? So, well, I see that we only have two minutes to go, so I will be brief. So I think the main factor is that back in 2004, we institutionalized the collective memory of SARS. And then as part of that institution is a responsive governing mechanism that makes sure the best ideas from the civil society are amplified regularly and predictably. And the small-scale pilots such as the national IC card for health, which was a very small-scale pilot at a time of 2003, only on the Penghu Islands, quickly scaled out to the entire country. So this time around, more than 99.99% of citizens, but also some residents use the national health IC card from everything to the mask purchasing to stimulus voucher purchasing and things like that all on the national IC card for health care. So now time is limited. I have only two questions. Taiwan, there's no second wave occurring. And one, the other is that will you give message to people in Japan who are suffering now? So the first answer is that so far, we are keeping the R value below one. So and this depends not on any single measure, but a combination of mask wearing, hand sanitation, social distancing, stay at home and things like that. And when people do go out to the private parade and so on, they all wear a mask and trust each other to remind each other to wear the mask and keep social distance. And so this is the first part of my answer. And my message is exactly the same, right? Keep to those basic measures, remind each other to keep to those measures and until the vaccination rolls out, just keep doing so and so that we can all live long and prosper. Well, until such a time that a vaccination become generally available, of course, everyone is better off with the physical vaccine, which protects not only SARS, but also COVID-19 and all the future variations as long as it's a respiratory disease, the physical vaccine always works. So keep doing so and stay strong. I understand. Thank you for sparing your precious time. Thank you very much. We truly appreciate it. Thank you for your interpretation work and for the moderation. Arigatou gozaimashita. Arigatou gozaimashita. Thank you very much.