 Let's start recording on the computer. Hello and welcome to the digital free thought radio hour. This is one of three point nine wozo radio FM all day all along. And today we're here with a cadre of companions, you know, my gaggle of good fellows, my bunch of bros friends here to discuss all that is great in the world of science, supposition and superstition. If you want to talk about some cool stuff, you came to the right place and we're going to be talking about cool stuff all day today, particularly our topic today. Faith in film and why kind of, you know, bad things might happen as a result of how faith is depicted in films that are, you know, pretty popular today or in media in general. But that in my head is the main course. I really do want to dive into some noodley appetizers. So how about we start with a quick little invocation by our own dread pirate for absolutely. Hail marinara full of spice, the flying spaghetti monsters filled with the tastier doubt among sauces and blessed is the fruit of thy jar tomatoes. Although fools bleed them as vegetables. Holy marinara, chief among toppings, save a plate for us now. And at about six o'clock when dinner is served, if you would be so kind. Raw. Guys, I'd be remiss if I didn't do a proper introduction of everyone who is on today's show. John Richards, it's good to see you. How you been? Hi. Yeah, welcome. Dread pirate Higgs, how you been? It's good to see you too. It's it's it's been an interesting, interesting couple of weeks. I was working down on the coast, so I wasn't able to attend last week's show. You're actually working. You're doing some managing. I've heard. I well, I did that. Yeah, I did the marriage there on September 19th. That went very well. And of course, I posted the full video of the ceremony on my YouTube channel, which I'll plug a little later in the show. Nice. But I. I have been in contact with someone who's sympathetic to the plight of Pasadena's particularity of the ones in B.C. And of course, is now looking to include a larger story of Pasadena efforts around the world. So I've been working with him rather closely. And of course, my ongoing battle with the Insurance Corporation of B.C., which is the agency responsible for government-issued licensing for identification, I should say, is stepping up a notch and looking forward to some interesting outcomes from that. Not bad. Dredd, you'd be particularly proud of me because I actually wear you are I wear a flying spady monster hat typically when I'm like out and about in a boot and playing disc golf and with friends. When I was over with Boudreau, we do a thing called a summit where all of his neighbors come to his backyard. We sit around a fireplace and we talk into the evening to the midnight free discussion, minimal judgment. But we're allowed to say what's on our mind in a in a conducive atmosphere that's fairly supportive about a number or myriad of what would normally be considered controversial topics. And we do have Christians and atheists and everything in between there. We had a Christian who was looking at the hat that I was wearing. And he's like, I would like to talk about flying spaghetti monsters because don't you think that the those adherents feel like they're just doing it despite Christianity and they don't actually believe in a God? And I actually watch some of your shows and I know this Dredd character that you're talking about. And I don't even think he genuinely believes in the God. What do you think about that? In my opinion to that or my immediate response was it doesn't matter what he thinks, what he's what the message is, is that there is a clear bias of power that's given to very particular, you know, worldview, which is the Christian worldview by governments, by institutions that's supposed to be unbiased in that nature. And what what we're seeing is when Dredd comes and tries to wear his religious garb, the government's saying you're not a real religion. But when it's someone wears a Christian cross is like, you're a real religion. We'll let you go through. If you wear a turban, we'll let that through. But not if you wear this and that's not the government's precision. If your reaction to when you see that is, well, maybe the people with the condor on their heads aren't genuinely believing in their God. You've missed the point. The point is the government shouldn't be the one deciding who's the real one and who isn't the perfect, perfect. Yeah, I absolutely thank you for being in our camp. No sweat, no sweat, no sweat. I regularly pray before I go to putt. How about that? I'll do a little noodle. I'll do a little noodle. I'll do another noodle and then I putt and it goes in almost every single time. Can't be any happier. Hey, what's up, John? Well, you know, you know, freedom of information. We all in various countries now, we all have freedom of information, don't we? We can we can request from the authorities, whatever they whoever they are, how they do things and why they think this is true and this that and the other. So why don't we ask the authorities how they determine what is and what isn't a legitimate religion? Right, right, right, right. Wow, man. And I know this can almost be a topic for its own show, but I did want to actually, John Richards, you're you're crusade for atheism. Who have you shook hands with? What's your what's your presidential exploits? King of atheism in in UK? What? How's it going on there? Well, unfortunately, I don't carry as much weight as the King. So I don't get invited to as many places as he does. There's a new king in town. That's right. My bad, my bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so I'm I'm what I'm trying to do is raise the profile. I'm I'm trying to make more people aware that we have an organization and I'm the leader of it and that I'm available. You know, I've been invited to make some speeches at various places and up and down the country. And recently, I went to an event organized by the National Secular Society where I was in the audience, but I still put up my hand and I got to be the first person to speak after the platform. So that was video. So it's it's out there. You can watch that. And so I'm doing my best to get shaking the hands of the right people. Not bad, not bad. Listen, you have that film coming out, Dred, you got your marriage film coming out. I want to talk about a film that's still sticking with me. I saw this on YouTube. And let me tell you something as an atheist, it just bothers me because this is a this is a student film made by a very genuine person. Like I don't have any. I'm not going to plug him. I won't I will I'll refrain from, you know, throwing any like bad eyes towards this video, but very genuinely made student film about a landlord who's an alcoholic who's kicking out people out of his apartment complex in wintertime and the families that get kicked out or left on the streets. They die due to exposure. We're talking about children's wives because they couldn't give the landlord enough money or they were in debt and the guy didn't care because he's just deep in his alcohol alcoholism. He's a complete nihilist. He doesn't see any good in virtue of people and he just wants his money and what's his do? Turns out that continues until he's on his deathbed and he's about to die until he's visited by a very handsome tuxedo wearing or suit wearing angel with a British accent. Probably a fake one. It was it was a bit of a little to it. But anyway, the the the person is not the God of death, which the man originally thought, but is actually the angel Gabriel or something like that, and he's setting him up with a proposition of saying, listen, if you just after forgiveness, God will forgive you and you don't have to worry about you can go to heaven. And the guy's like, no, I don't deserve to go to heaven because I let families die on the streets. I, you know, was inconsiderate. I was rude to people and I let people die like I was a terrible person. And the Gabriel said, actually, none of that matters because God can forgive you. So all you have to do is ask for forgiveness and you'll be fine. He's like, well, what about all the dead families I killed on the street? And he said, why do you think I'm here? They asked me to come to you for salvation. That's how much that's why I'm here to invite you to heaven. And he's like, oh, OK, then I I'm sorry. And the angels like you are forgiven and they go to heaven together end of the movie. And in my head, I'm just like, whoa, how do you do this in film? What's the message being sent? Like, what is going on here? And so, you know, this isn't the first time I've seen something like this. There was an entire show called Touched by an Angel. I'm not sure if you guys are familiar with that. Maybe Canada TV show. Oh, yeah. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. That is the setup for almost every Touched by an Angel episode. It's a terrible person at the last second they're about to die. They get they say, hey, you want to just say sorry. It's like, sure. And they go. And the person who they, you know, screwed over is still in a bad state. But, you know, they're happy to go and they're free. It's a bad message. And I and I also find that this was like a indirect cure for alcoholism, too, because he just like in the process of doing the movies, like, I don't need to drink this. This tastes terrible. I'm just going to drink water from now on. And in Touched by an Angel, there's a bunch of there's a myriad of like very terrible things just walked around. I want to talk about faith in film and why that might have a really bad impact on things. Dred, do you have thoughts on this and do you have any other examples? Well, sure. I mean, not necessarily examples, because they're all over the place. I mean, way religious like stories are portrayed, you know, the best story or the greatest story ever told or bent her or, you know, anything with Charlton Heston in it. He's always, you know, address the stories in an absolutely most favorable way to the group that is depicting, of course. And but, you know, just on that you know, thing about, you know, children being left out in the street to die and then them asking them asking God or Jesus to forgive, forgive the guy. You know, people don't think about the other way. And that is what happens to people who are not religious, who die at the hands of a person who then later seeks you know, forgiveness from from God. The dead ones don't go and he does. And it seems like a very cruel and unjust worldview. It is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. John, you're taking notes almost looks like what? What's what's on your mind, my friend? Yeah, I am writing down thoughts so that I don't forget to bring them to the table. Please. So what we're talking about here is. Dispensing a message, right? Propaganda. Yeah, exactly. And originally, before we had this technology, originally, it was just some guy in the street talking and giving a story and people watching and and getting involved relating to the story like you've just been doing here time. And then things moved on a bit. Writing was invented so you could take a copy of this home and read it for yourself. And more recently, there was artwork. So you get a painting that represented aspects of the story. We're improving with as technology is developing. And then, of course, you could get a photograph that showed you where the story was depicted and so on. Right. And right. We're getting close. Fine. Exactly. We're getting we're getting so a picture is worth a thousand words. But a movie must be worth 10,000. So what we're talking about here is the development of technology. We've now come to the greatest medium. Film or, you know, video is the is the best way of getting your message across. But it's still it's still your propaganda. It's still your opportunity to push something into somebody else's head. Hmm. Yeah. I was going to say, yeah, I was going to say it's almost like the Tim Robbins phenomena, right? Where or when you go to church, even it's like a pep rally, you know, a pep talk and film acts in that very same way. It's just giving people this false sense of the power of power, a false sense of power over themselves, over there, over their world, over their life, but it's illusory, right? Right. Yeah. I also feel like there's a in my head, the worst thing that a God can allow is needless harm, right? And it seems like the model of most of these films is I allow this harm to happen as an all powerful being. I let it happen and I let it continue to happen. And then after it happens, I then forgive it. Even though I could have stopped it or it cost something else to avoid it and still gave the same message of being like, hey, listen, this landlord's about to kick you out. In fact, he did kick you out, but believe it or not, I have like this whole extra home that you could live in. And I'll just talk to this landlord and let him know what he did. And that was bad. And in the meanwhile, you have a roof over your head and your family won't have to start up on the streets. Great. Everybody happy. Fantastic. No, God waits until all the harm that he could have stopped has occurred. And then afterwards, forgives everybody because the war that he gives them is so much more meaningful than the lies and the suffering that they went through. But in my head, that's still, you know, you could have still gave him the war. You still could have given them the care without the stick. You know, why do we have to allow this needless harm to happen? And what sort of virtue is there in allowing it to happen as a learning lesson by what is, supposedly, a benevolent God? I just find it to be by definition needless when you do this kind of harm to like people. And then to spread that as a message just sort of makes people indoctrinate themselves that the suffering they're going through has meaning. And I feel like you could be in a situation where you could get help. But you've already reached a conclusion where this test, this suffering that I'm going through, this this alcoholism, this attraction that I have for children or this abuse that I've rendered on on innocent women is is to get me towards some sort of character development in my own narrative, and that's such a dangerous position to put in because you only put yourself in position to cause more needless harm. When there are better avenues for people to get that kind of support or therapy through more, you know, in my opinion, secular means, secular fashions. Dred, what do you think? Is that for you? Well, I was I was going to say that, you know, just following along that line is the idea that it gives people a false sense of universal justice. Yes, these films, TV series. Actually, you know, because, you know, I work in the film industry for security for movies and TV. And there's a there's a series coming out called The Scriptures. And of course, this is all it's going to be episodic, right? Where are these little, you know, stories are going to be told where at the end of the day, you know, everyone's forgiven and justice in the universe is delivered by that all powerful God. So, yeah, it's it's you know, I I I wonder to what extent people feel like the producers and whatnot understand what they're doing. You know, if they actually believe in what they are doing or if they are recognizing that these things make a lot of money. Yes, yes, Garner, a large following, regardless of their personal views on religion, you know, maybe, you know, who knows, maybe it's a bunch of Buddhists sitting around there going, hey, we can make a lot of money off these. Yeah, a bunch of Wiccans, right, right? I think you had a really important point because there's that universal sense of justice that is instilled by movies like this, which can cause someone who would, for example, not even related to themselves. If they saw, for example, a hurricane going through a impoverished town, they can say in their head, well, God has a plan for that because in my head, my God would never just let something like that happen. Like I'm sure like when those people die or the destruction happens, he's going to find a way to make it all right. And I don't have to do anything in the sense of, you know, donations or spreading awareness or anything like that. That's their problem and God's got it taken care of. And then on the flip side, the idea of like, how can you keep spreading a message like that? Well, if you believe in that universal sense of justice, you're not doing anything wrong by virtue of the fact that you can do it, makes it morally right, or else your God would have found some way to stop you. And what a scary kind of mindset that is, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And yeah, it's it is. It's a very scary situation. And, you know, I, yeah, I don't know what more to say about it, but. I got some because we have a bunch of comments from Reddit and I want to go. OK, yeah. But Lorena, Bob, it said, so on the on the prompt of, hey, you know, I just saw a movie that cured alcoholism and forgave evil landlord who killed his tenants by being offered a Bible by an angel. And Lorena said, that's basically alcohol anonymous or alcoholics anonymous in few words. And it's a very interesting point because I don't think alcoholics anonymous. Now, I'm going to say this tentatively. I don't think they genuinely are trying to trick people. I think in their head, they say, hey, you know, 30 percent of the people who go through our program don't become alcoholics anymore. That's better than nothing. And, you know, they're that desperate. It's a system that works for a certain group of people. And we've done a lot of work in that aspect. In my head, it's like only 30 percent. Well, what about like all the people that fail? It's like we don't talk about that and we don't report that. So you don't have to worry about it. Well, there's a problem there. This isn't exactly if you're not if you're not investigating your own methodology to determine what is not working and then a way to improve it. Yeah, you're just you're you're, you know, you're gliding on thin ice, really. Yeah, it's yeah. And in my head, it's the sort of thing where when you're in alcoholics anonymous and you are a Christian, you can become even more frustrated with yourself or dig yourself into an even deeper pit when you find that the program isn't successful for you because you're like, this is I'm a Christian. You're telling me Christian propaganda, but yet I'm still addicted to the alcohol. Like this program that should have worked for me. Like, why am I one of the people that it's not? Now, I got to drink more alcohol. I like to figure that out. Exactly. Yes, I'm incurable. I can't I can't know I can't be helped by even the most powerful being in the universe. Exactly. The 30 percent that gets through the program and I'm just pulling that out. It's probably I don't know. They don't report the numbers decidedly. So you think they'd want to. But if it was only 30 percent and they're making even more percentages, even worse case, or even if it was just 50 50, you know, even if it was like a 90 percent success rate and they just don't want to report that. Why can't we get some visibility on the people that don't make it through the program and give them an outlet to where that might be a bit more, you know, meaningful as a better methodology for them saying, hey, without the religious baggage, you can process this, you can get through this, we can work through this too. Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting. Like when you say 30 percent, you know, I know you're just kind of tossing that out as a as an arbitrary figure. But, you know, anyone that was kind of following people after or after they've come into the program for a year or two years, five years, whatever, it's all self-reported. Right. Right. So the people would be saying anything with respect to what their habits are after, you know, because now say they've come into the community and they're starting to gain some respect, but secretly speaking the Mickey and into the locker room or, you know, into the into the top drawer at the desk at the office, at the office, you know, right, it's all self-reported. So it's completely unreliable in any respect how they would report out the numbers on that. Night Owl 79 also concurs. He says that I did an anger management course in prison. Most of it was spouting religious BS. And I've been told the diction courses were the same. And then Dirk, Digler, Kojak also responded, you know, movies like that are enough to make me want to drink really bad. And then 113 said you just basically swapped one crutch for another. And I feel like that's the messaging of the movie. You know, you were talking about how, you know, while we don't know the reported numbers, because they choose to keep those internal, the value of films is that you get 100 percent success rate. That's right. Right. Yeah. You don't have to worry about anyone falling off the wagon, because it's like, no, we made this perfect for you. We even had the angels come in and like taking straight to heaven. You're done for all the credits. Well, I don't know. Is is rotten tomatoes a, you know, a fair indicator of whether or not it worked or what? Sure, I think across the switchblade and her, you know, how they fare and rotten tomatoes, you know, which tend to be a little more critical. Yeah, you know, I do also want to talk about the merits of why that's just a really why religious films tend to just rely on some of the worst conventions and writing story, writing in the first. Oh, absolutely. I mean, you think about Jesus as a character in a book. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, boring. Yeah, I mean, there's no character, there's no change in that person. It's good from the beginning, good at the end, good all the way through. Listen, I totally want to delve into this. How about we go into the second half of the show? We'll go right back in because there are some real, there are some real narrative problems we'll delve right into. But let's give a chance for everybody to come back in. Thank you so much. This is the digital free thought radio hour. We're going to take a quick break and then come right back after this outbreak, outbreak. Hello, welcome back to the show. This is the digital free thought radio hour. Well, so 103.9 FM all day all along. We're here talking with friends about the nature of faith in film. And we left off on a pretty juicy topic. Dred Pirate Higgs, you're talking. You're about to do a whole break into the whole aspect of Jesus. I have a tirade prepared. He's got a tired. We're going to do some quick listener comments just throwing some out here just for for appreciation's sake. Thank you guys so much for leaving us these great comments. So Thomas Ladder match. And by the way, I haven't read these out. So I'm I see some bad words here. Please forgive me if I mess up. But Thomas Ladder Matt says on the in response to the movie of a guy being handed the Bible and being sent to heaven. Yeah, trying to get sober and away curing his alcoholism in the same process, too. Yeah, trying to get sober without Jesus in the South is virtually impossible, especially if you go to Alcoholics Anonymous. I got very lucky to find a group that doesn't talk about it. Faith or use the 12 step program, which I'm not telling anyone to use in order to get sober, because it's just not for anybody. Honestly, I don't even have good advice except for being privileged enough to be able to travel around enough and find something interesting or a support group that worked for me in particular. If I was stuck with only the meetings near my house, I would not be sober anymore or I would not still be sobered. Side note, I hadn't been to a church in 15 years until trying Alcoholics Anonymous. The vibes were way more screwed up. You can feel the Christian nationalism bleeding out of the walls. I guess I could chalk it up to the paranoia of detoxing. But I don't think so. I felt very much like like we judged each other and all the freaks all on the freaks all go to every meeting in every area so you can never escape the scandal licking, a lot of gossiping going on. Thank you for the topic. Thank you for the topic, Thomas. Dredd, we're going to throw this up to you. Thank you guys so much for all the comments. Now, the character of Jesus, the greatest character of all stories ever told. Are you in agreement, Dredd? If ever, if ever there was a more shallow character that could have been written, Jesus is it. There's absolutely no way to say Ebenezer Scrooge. Well, it changes. There's a character he starts in one place and he does a character arc and ends up in a new place. Oh, the problems mean I'm going to change. That's right. Something Jesus never did. OK, OK, it makes for very, very poor reading because there's no character, there's no plot development. There's no character development. The character ends as he started pretty much, right? Right. That he's died once. But of course, that didn't really impair his abilities or have any effect on his psychology. So right, man, pretty shallow character. John, I want to know if this is fair. I feel like in most superhero stories, you have a great villain and a great hero, right? But the problem with Jesus is that he's his own villain because all he had to do was shut up for just like a couple. For a couple of very specific moments in time and he would have been free to go. Everything would have been happy. Like, even the Roman emperor was like, could you just please stop being a jerk? And and and just go away for a little bit. It's like, I will not be stopped being a jerk. I will continue to make fathers fight against their sons and push camels through needles eyes. I am I'm literally God. I am God. I'm God, guys. Deal with it. And it's like, oh, God, we're going to have to kill this guy. Like, there's a whole lineup of you guys saying the exact same thing. Sorry. Well, you know, and even that story, you think that because it was all predetermined, there is no I mean, you know, the end before you even start watching the beginning, right? You know, and that's the the idea of this divine plan. And and it's interesting here because I read this on a meme on Facebook. Did God sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself because of a rule he made himself? Right. You know, and that's the story in a nutshell, right? Right. You know, it's even worse than that in a nutshell. He's literally taking his son and nailing him to pieces of wood. Nailing himself to the tree. It's one thing to say it to yourself, but to do that with your own son. Like if God or Jesus calls himself the son of God, it's like, well, then God came up with a plan of like nailing his own son to blocks of wood for for me. It's like he's up there just hammering him into his own hands, like looking back and it's like, I'm doing this for you. I was like, I didn't ask you to do that. It's like, well, Abraham with Isaac, right? Yeah, it's it's kind of it's a blood cult. It's human satirizing at the worst. John, love to get your feedback on this. What do you think about Jesus as a as a greatest story, greatest character of all time and don't persuade you otherwise? I think it's pathetic. I mean, if you look, you were saying earlier about no character development. Well, we don't know what he did for most of his life. He popped up in in a manger and then he disappeared. He went AWOL for several two decades, reappeared when he was in his thirties. There's no he's a two dimensional creation. There's no relationships going on. He doesn't have a girlfriend. You know, his father and mother have disappeared by then. That there's no family. It's so cardboard. Cardboard, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, speaking of cardboard. Listen, here's here's my here's my initial complaint about this movie in that he the the the angel that was originally presupposed to be the angel of death handed this landlord a Bible. But that could have literally been any other kind of piece of paper or any other kind of piece of document or carpet or whatever. It could have been the Koran and he's like, hey, listen, it could have been on Anton Lavey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it could have been literally X-Men issue number three hundred and forty seven and he's just like, listen, I'm Galactus. I want to let you know Galactus forgives you. The same script, the same lines, everything after the point. And it would have been more or less the same structure of the movie. The fact that it was a Bible only means that it's like playing into the already ingrained propaganda that already exists in Western society where it's like this is the idealized God. Here's a movie that's placating to that. Just go. There's no other effort put into it past that point. Yeah, yeah, it worries me now because movies have become so realistic. And then the next stage in a deep fake when you can make anyone appear to say anything, right? That's what are we going to do then? How are we going to tell fact from fiction? Critical thinking. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, inspiring other people to do it as well. Three Ham sandwiches from Reddit also concurs and follows up with a comment. Well, they only have the one book. And when you only have a hammer, every problem begins to look like a nail. Right. Yes. The idea of using the Bible to solve all life's dilemmas, even morally complex problems or like inter communication issues or interrelated issues with different people, when you only have that one book, it's like just give them the book, tell them to read it and they'll become a better person. And you can walk away and then let them let that happen. I feel like it's nearly responsible of a message to start broadcasting. Unless you are there in that soup, sort of, I'm sorry. I should have said soup. I didn't mean to offend. I mean, if you're already in that, that that's indoctrination circle, basically. It's an unfortunate thing. But yeah, you could literally swap out that book for anything, which in my head pulls out sort of the narrative problem with the the God shows up at the last second or an angel of God shows up the last second and resolves everyone's problems. In fact, we already have a term for that. It's Deus Ex Machina. Have you guys heard of that before? Goes to the machine. Yeah, it is. Well, they made stories back in Greece where it's like, oh, no, I'm trapped in a pit. I was a terrible person. I shouldn't have been so terrible. Actually, I'm totally fine. I'm Archimedes or whatever. I'm some I'm some one of the pat peeves of God's. I'll pull you out of the pit. You're fine. Don't worry about it. That's how movies used to end or how stories used to end for for quite some time. We're seeing the modern day version of that. And we're not pointed it out for the trite in narrative structure that it is. And I feel like if we were able to recognize stuff like that and be like, if this is any other God, you wouldn't be happy right now. As a Christian, I feel like that's the point that a lot of people are looking that if it was the noodley Lord who came in and dropped off the the the book, what's the holy book of pacifarianism? Well, it's the gospel of the flying spaghetti monster. Yeah. If the gospel of the flying spaghetti monster was given to that landlord and it was just like how you're going to be redeemed by the noodle, like no one would be like, that's a stupid movie. But if it was the Bible and the same same structure to be like, well, I like this movie now, I'm going to give this on my legs and money. Yeah. And that's the that's the, you know, that's the the hubris of it, right? Is a person can look at me and regard my religion as just absolutely ridiculous and how could you possibly believe that stuff? And yet not turn that internal eye upon their own belief system, which is certainly ridiculous in its own way. You know, the outsider test of faith, right? We kind of paint that in a silly fashion. Of course, Christians look at Muslims and say, well, Mohammed flying to heaven on a winged horse. That's freaking crazy. Right. Right. Without looking without, you know, that self-examination, it's all the same. Right. There's the idea that framing a movie with you have a problem and your problem really is that you're just not a Christian. Starts to set up a lot of really bad expectations, like, yeah, you're an alcoholic, yeah, you're rude to people. Yes, you may kill the couple of kids, but your real problem is, you know, I know what it is. Let me tell you what it is. All right. You're not a Christian. And if you're a Christian, then you solve all that. I feel like what a what a terrible way to to resolve people's problems. Alex unbothered says, are you addicted to alcohol? Just read my book. That'll help. Quote it by the director. And I feel like, yeah, that's a lot of problems. Well, Jesus, of course, is a pusher, right? Because he changed the water into wine. So yeah, very true. John Richards, I heard you were speaking up. Sorry. Yeah. Well, you Americans may or may not know that Deus Ex Machina is also a title of an album by a Swedish band called Machine. Machina is supremacy. So I recommend that. OK, I'll keep that up. Siggy H five five throws in what many Christians seem to forget is that their Jesus was also an alcoholic, only someone so desperate for the next drink would turn water into wine. Yeah, that's perfect. And you know, I can do the reverse. Go for it. Go for it. I can do the reverse. When it goes in, water comes out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a sign of the antichrist, if anyone, if anyone had it. But you know, we're talking about the suspension of disbelief when you watch films. Like a lot of people will themselves into doing that. The problem with these faith based films is that that doesn't happen. And that people will watch these a lot of times with the expectation of well, that could actually happen, right? Or like maybe somewhere that that exact same scenario did happen, or an angel did come down because in their worldview, they do believe in angels. They do believe in an interventionist God. And it's such a it's such a dangerous quagmire to open up when you have people who are already gullible in a sense to where they can accept any sort of fiction coming in that kind of like form and you're playing with that as well. Ah, it's so dangerous. Man, propaganda sucks. It really does interest. Interestingly, monotheism really pushed the need for gullibility, because up until then, you could think I've got this God for drought and I've got this God for a harvest and this other God for disease. But when they're all rolled into one, it really stretches the credibility. Surely, how can one God be for everything that you really need to be? You use the word gullible. You need to be 100 percent gullible to be sucked by that. Well, interestingly, you know, the Greek pantheon reflected the Republic. And of course, the single God represented the monarchy. You know, so like the King David and Moses, and there was always a single leader who represented the power of the creator. You know, sort of delivering the message and being the mouthpiece for that one God. So it was certainly a change towards totalitarianism way back in the day. Right. But what do you I discovered? I discovered recently that the Egyptians, who I'd previously thought had more polytheistic, you know, had all these animal-headed human-bodied gods like Osiris and the Nubis and Isis and so on. But I discovered recently they actually went monotheistic to there was a single eventually at the end of the era of Egyptian success. They actually went monotheistic. Did you know that? I did not rock. Yeah, rock. Really? OK. Because it used to be Osiris and set like Osiris being the the son of Isis and Nethis was, of course, Isis's sister. It was a big convoluted thing where the son became the father. You know, it's actually it mirrors the Christian version actually mirrors in a much more unsophisticated way, the nuanced version of what the Egyptian religion was all about. The way you describe that makes me feel that a very similar thing happened with like DC Universe, like Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman and so on. Like the stories had become since the Golden Age so convoluted that there had to be a reset event just to like rebrand everything. And they called it the New 52 where it was just and this is several. This is about seven years ago where they're just like all those stories. There was an event and all those timelines are done. This is the new singular timeline. We're just starting out with one superhero at a time and we will slowly branch it out. It's a reboot for everyone to get right back into the process to. Yeah, I think monotheism in its own way is the resell for polytheism. If you just wait long enough, they're just like, yeah, yeah, it's just a new brand. We got to get the new guys in here. It's way too complicated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that, of course, that reset is exactly what Islam did, isn't it? Because they decided that all of the original books of the Koran were wrong, burned them and then started again, sort of from memory to create the whole thing once more. Yeah, that's the premise of the satanic verses, right? Yeah, so we see that in the bifurcations of Christianity in a sense of like Mormon Mormonism in my head is sort of like a splintering of the Judaism to have like an American's bent to it, right? So that you have like these American based prophets. And then that in Jesus in the U.S. is a court, right? Right, right, right. And Native Americanizes and Americanizes Jesus. Right, right, which is more palpable to people who are in America, right? And are also gullible. But speaking about that gullibility, it's like, what do you do when you have a movie that you've reduced your suspension of disbelief for that shows you things that you find affirmed based on like what John Richter was saying. In the most realistic avenue of media that you can accept or digest. And then you walk out of that movie under the impression of like, wow, they went through all that effort to just purport something that I already believe was true. And now here's my figurehead. Here's my here's my Catholic or my evangelist pastor, let's say it's a Kenneth Copeland. And what he's doing is he's saying, guys, my flock, listen, covid's coming. I want to tell you, you don't have to worry about it. I'm going to pray right now and I'm going to blow covid away. And this happened back in April, 2020. He's just yes, he blows over his entire flock and he blew away covid and all those people are now convinced now I don't have to wash my hands anymore. Now I don't have to wear a face mask. Now I don't have to be six feet away from people because the guy who believes that I believe in that I just he had it. They made a whole movie about it. You know, they wouldn't just do this if it was fake. He blew on me. Now I'm covid free. I don't need vaccination, right? That's the dangerous thing that we're setting up. We basically said you don't need to think critically the movie and and released basically like zombies. It is the people in the world. Yeah, it is. I think that's an excellent parallel. You know, just really mind zombies. Their brain has been eaten and supplanted by a book. Right, right. And certainly not just Christianity, but Islam, Judaism, you know, pick pick pick your favorite. Right. But yes, your your your brain has been replaced. And unfortunately, it affects both, you know, the layman all the way to the science, the scientists in a laboratory. I'm still affected even in my last job. John Richards, you want to add to that? Yeah, well, I was going to come on to that myself. Because it isn't just it isn't just the depiction of faith and the narratives of gods, is it? People watch movies in which unscientific things happen. And they they've got no way, many of them, of distinguishing the reality from what they just seen. I mean, if you were traveling through space, you wouldn't see the stars go whooshing past you. No. Well, you know, and you think about the first Superman movie where Lois dies and Superman, he gets all angry. And then what he does is he flies out in orbit and turns the earth to go the other way and goes backwards. And we talk about a ridiculous notion. Right. How can you suspend disbelief in the face of that? That is just idiocy. So there's also the points where you have Superman even in the latest movies coming out. So like we we look like we laugh at it and it's silly. But then we have like the latest Superman movie happened where there's a plane or a rocket ship that's about to fall to earth. And Superman just holds it with one hand on one part of its frame. And that's enough to support the entire way to the entire structure. Right. It's like there's no way that pinpoint pressure that's supporting the entire rocket ship is going to lose its structural integrity. He's just there and he's just coming down and he just lets it down on the ground. And on my head, I'm like, what the hell was that rock? Yeah, well, I mean, and what is what is Superman standing on? Right. Right. How does he you know what he's saying? He's standing on turtles. Turtles all the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it worries me, particularly, particularly in the US, because let's face it, the the US is the most movie going nation. Sure. Right. More movies are avidly viewed in the US than anywhere. India, India, am I close to that? That's true. Bollywood. Bollywood. And maybe Nigeria. So with not even US. But anyway, the thing is that that the constant barrage of new movie after new movie since it was invented about a hundred years ago has it's sort of been veiled its way into the minds of the population to the extent that the difference between the screen and reality has become blurred. Yeah, especially with effects, right? Right. And the better the effects, you don't see wires anymore. Oh, yeah, these silhouettes of a person on a green screen anymore. Right. It's it's very highly technical. You know, the illusion is complete. It's compounded with confirmation bias, too, right? Because now there's the social aspect that I'm watching this movie with a bunch of other people and they're not screaming out, oh, that's they didn't happen. That's wrong. They're like, they're enjoying the movie along with me, but I'm taking it seriously and I'm not hearing any objections. So I think we're all on the same page that this actually happened. Right, guys, who I'm not talking to, but just and you walk out and you're like, everyone like that movie, it must have not must have been the way how it happened because no one's telling me I'm wrong because I already want to believe that that movie happened, right? And that's what people who are desperate to confirm a bias go through. And unfortunately, man, is there a lot of ego to pull that out. You know, that that methodology out. But a lot of people don't go through the effort. That's why I find that there's several degrees of harm that come with showing faith in film and not highlighting that it's entertainment. Dred, what do you think final words? Well, I was going to point out because there is a phenomenon, of course, where a group of people seeing a thing may not speak up when they see something as clearly incongruous with the reality. And that's, of course, where I become a big pain in the ass to many of my friends. When I do see something or we see something together and and, you know, I hear that comment, oh, man, that was really cool. Or that was a really good movie. What a great story. And I am not afraid to say, are you kidding me? Did you see that? Like, you know, like someone falling out of an airplane, Superman coming to catch him and he puts his arms out. Right. Well, you know, gravity, of course, and the speed that that person was going, of course, their body would be entirely broken, if not cut in twain. Right. If you doesn't like come down with some sort of degree of exactly, right? You know, it would be very, you know, you'd have to follow complex physics in order to get there. But of course, you know, yeah, I was then, of course, what you hear is, well, you know, it's just a story. It's just entertainment. No, no, I totally hear this when I try to depict the world here. This is not the way the world works. When I see a Batman movie, in fact, the latest one that came out and everyone's like, oh, it's so grounded. It's so gritty. It's so realistic. And there's that scene where spoiler alert. There's like Batman's doing a wingsuit jump off a building. His wingsuit malfunctioned or something. He hits a subway. He gets ricocheted down the street. And because he's wearing his padding, he doesn't break a single bone. Doesn't get a single bruise. And he's in the next scene an hour later trying to get into a night club. And I'm just like, oh, you just broke the movie for me. Because like even Noah North would show like a bruise or something like that. Like on the body, he's just fine and going around. It's like, well, when you think about football players wearing helmets, the helmets, of course, when you get a big jar, yeah, yes, your skull is protected, but your brain is just smashed against the inside of your skull. Correct. Urgo, concussions and all bad outcomes from that. I just wanted to point out here, Loma just made this comment. He says, I recommend watching Midnight Mass for some interesting religious themes. I find a lot of horror portrays very different views of religion that other genres. Nice. It's worth Midnight Mass. I think I'll check it out. Thank you. Thank you, Loma. Quiet human machine wants to also say, hey, did that angel hand over a Bible? Was it one of those ones hollowed out that can store a flasca alcohol? That's my last cheeky comment of the day. John Richards, where can we find your stuff? We made it to the bottom of the show. Free thought channel. Easy as that. YouTube free thought channel. But lots of good stuff. Last night, we had a conversation with a Canadian author currently residing in the Philippines, and his his book is called The World's Biggest Lie. Yeah. Guess what it's about? Which lie is that? Dredd Parrot, where can we find your stuff, my friend? Well, I live stream this at 7 a.m. Pacific Daylight Time on my YouTube channel, Mind Pirate, M-I-N-D-P-Y-R-A-T-E. And on there, you will find this and Global Atheist News Review, which I do at 11 a.m. and these are both on Sundays. And if you go on my channel, you'll also find out you'll find a video of the first Canadian Pastafarian wedding, which I performed, which is all completely legal. Yeah, but I do a raw man. Yeah, so come check it out if you like, please subscribe. I'd love to have it. Guys, you can find my content on my YouTube channel. Let's chat on YouTube and I'll leave us with, hey, wonderful show. Love having you guys on and my motto is not about souls. It's about I don't know and I think I don't know is the best answer to give when you don't know something. Don't let anyone shame you otherwise. Thank you guys so much for joining the show. Cheers, baby. Cheers, everybody. Thank you.