 Oh, what's up everybody once again is brand man Sean and today as you can see once again I got a very special guest for you guys. This is TJ Tech to TJ Chapman my bad goes by TJ's DJs on Instagram. He's manager currently for Trap Beckham and B O V the man's just he's been in the game for a minute. So there's a will for knowledge. I'm just going to get right into the interview and you'll be able to learn some more about his credibility as things go. But trust me, there's going to be a lot of value out of this one. First foremost, a thank you TJ for even doing this in first place. No, I appreciate you man. I was wondering if I was going to get a call. I seen all the other like, what about your boy? So it was just ironic, you know how we connected and everything so I appreciate you reaching out. I definitely watch what you do and I know a lot of my peers like what you do so I'm glad to be on with you. It's an honor to hear that man like just to just to like get into things right. You're a manager. You're successful by so many people's standards right now, but how did you start in the game? Did you come in as a manager? Did you even know you want to do music? Where did that come from? I mean, I came in as a DJ. I started DJing when I was in junior high school and then I ended up going to college in Florida. I'm from Detroit, Ohio, between Detroit and Canada, Ohio. And then I moved to Tallahassee to go to Florida A&M, FAMU to go to college. And then that's where I met Kurt. I met him my first day at FAMU actually. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I've known him for 30 years. That's crazy. But so when I moved to FAM, I started DJing down here and then it just went from me DJing house parties to DJing campus events and DJing the big fraternity and sorority events to DJing the clubs. And then next thing I know, I got asked to come on the road and DJ with an artist named Beatmaster Clay D who was like a Florida legend, Miami bass legend. And it just went from me being his road DJ to his road manager to his manager. And I always wanted to be in business and I love DJing and I love music, but I wanted to be on the business side of things. I moved to Tallahassee to go to SBI, the School of Business at FAMU. So that was my whole goal anyway. But so it's just like figure out which business it was going to end up being. Mm-hmm. So how did, what did you really learn from that first relationship and that first experience going out on the road and stuff like that? You know, that's a funny question. I mean, I learned how to survive. I learned how to make it. I learned so much about being in the business and stuff that was required. But I tell you the most important thing that I learned is, you know, as a young person wanting to be wanting to get in this music business and so many of us had the same aspirations and we're just hungry and and eager. Man, and this is a business where people would take advantage of you so bad. And so the most important thing that I learned is, you know, everybody ain't as nice as they seem. Everything ain't necessarily good. It looks good. Ain't good. And you have to figure out how to pick and choose and deal with those situations because being so eager and being so hungry and just wanting to get on and just wanting to be like, man, people going to take advantage of you. And I definitely got taken advantage of. You know, no names necessary, but it's a possible for you to maybe share one of those particular experiences where you were looking back and you like, man, if I was thinking differently, it wasn't so in the bright eye, young phase, I would have never did that. I mean, something as simple as there being a historic event that started here in Tallahassee was Kappa Luau was an annual event. It was it grew to mean, man, craziness. But the first Kappa Luau, the person I was working with worked it out with the campus and everything. So, you know, they were going to DJ the Luau, provide the sound for the performances and the DJ. And then they were doing the after party and written out the venue. And so me being Mr. helpful, Henry, I wanted to help everybody, you know, I let this person talk me into, first off, renting all the sound equipment and putting it in my name for the event. I just wanted to be down. And so it was like, shoot anything that I could do to be down and get cool, then that's that's what I was trying to do. I didn't think about the other stuff. And so I rented all the sound equipment that everybody used for the performances that it was used for the DJ. I rented out the club for the after party and everything. And I tell you, man, I got jerked over. I never seen none of that money back. Godly. And I was just a young college student, you know what I'm saying? Just just trying to trying to get on, man. Trying to figure it out. Trying to figure it out. And man, I still got them outstanding bills. But, you know, the funny thing is you live and learn, you know what I'm saying? And from all that stuff and from being taken advantage of, it was a whole bunch way more than that. But learning, learning that stuff, it taught me how to better deal with people and how to better deal in situations where I feel a person isn't right. You know, you don't necessarily have to say something just because you see it. When all situations always understand what is it that you want to achieve from this relationship or what you want to get out of this relationship or business venture or partnership or whatever it is. And if whatever reason you realize that those people ain't necessarily right and they are trying to take advantage and get over on you, you know, as long as you realize it and can see it, you can still use the situation to see your advantage and you can play it against them. When you don't say nothing, they get more and more careless with it because they don't think that you're smart enough to figure anything out. And so I've used plenty of situations to my benefit that I knew wasn't right for me just because I knew what I was dealing with going in and what I wanted to achieve and get out of it. So that's like really looking at situations where, you know, we look at fame or capital gain. Those are like the two main measurements that people look at, but you're saying, you know, it might be a scenario that might not be great financially or a good look. There's some way that you see it could benefit you, whether it's a relationship or whether it's just knowledge that you learn, something like that. It'll put you in position to make that next move or whatever it is. You know, at the end of the day, you got to remember it's really a game of chess and you got to be strategic with all your moves. I mean, man, we've played chess so many times, not even in this situation, just in situations with the labels and everything else, but you got to be really smart and you got to think a lot of this stuff out and understand how it works so you can best benefit. So, I mean, when I hear something like that and being able to take advantage of those situations on the way that might not look good in the short term, you really have to understand what your goal is, your greater goal is to even do something like that, right? You got to see the big picture and I tell you, that's the biggest problem a great majority have. They're so small-minded and short-sighted that they don't see it. They don't even understand what the big picture is. They're so caught up in perception and how they perceive things to be from what they think other people are doing that they're just so wrong and misguided to begin with. When you say think other people are doing, that just like there's an ignorance when people, when it comes to just dealing with like the music industry or entertainment in general, just from like when you're a little kid, right, there's not even getting real deep about it. It's just like when you're a little kid, you're saying stuff on TV, you have no idea that it's nowhere near like the magic it is. It's a real industry, right, it's a little business. So like what was a moment that you or what are some of the bigger moments for you when it came to you like realizing like, oh, this is how this shit really works? Uh, man, um, one of my first major deal. I did my first major deal was with an island records in 1993. It was an artist named Prince Raheem. He was out of Miami. He was the first solo Miami based artist to get a major deal. Um, once again, once again, where I'm telling you, I was that nice guy. I was so happy to have a major deal. I think I, I think I was, um, uh, 20, I was 22. I was 22. And, um, and dog, I just wanted to be everybody friend, bro. Like, I just wanted to get along with everybody. I wanted everybody to like me. I wanted to be their friend. I wanted to go above and beyond. Um, but man, I became the scape escape goal for so many people and so many things dealing internally with that major label. And I didn't know how to deal. You know what I'm saying? I didn't, I didn't know how to deal. I didn't know how to cover, cover my ass. I didn't know, I didn't understand paper trails and, and know how that stuff worked and, and, and, and how to use that stuff against them. So my, and our person sat down and talked to me one day and he was like, man, I see what's going on. I know that you mean good. I know you didn't do that. I know you didn't do this. Um, he was like, but you have to, you have to understand how to play the game so people can't throw you under the bus like that. And so you can always have some type of paper trail and documentation. So you can, if they do, you can flip it and actually reverse it on them. And I had to learn the hard way, but, you know, I, I learned how to make notes of every conversation and what was said and dates and times and what was supposed to be done and what wasn't done. And, you know, and, and kept a journal. And then one day I ended up having to because they, like they made me look so bad. And so one day I had to go ahead and use all that. And he was real cool with Chris Blackwell, who owned Island Records, who found Bob Marley and everything. And so I sent an email to Chris documenting everything, everything, the dates, the times, everything that wasn't done, everything that they were supposed to, everything that they said wrong and laid it all out. And, you know, that person got fired. Sheesh. But it taught me how to deal in corporate business. You know what I'm saying? It taught me how to maneuver in that, in that corporate system with people that pray on eager beavers like me. Got you. That, that, that paper trail thing is definitely something I think is a value for people to learn when it comes to, I mean, you know, that most people coming into music, at least on the hip hop side, that, you know, that I know a lot of aspiring artists, you know, they're not necessarily even going to school, even if they are going to school, that, that dealing with corporate is different than going to school. Right. Yeah. I think that's a real, that's a valuable thing to learn. So when you. But, you know, but it's different now because you have a paper trail with basically everything, you know, saying you have a digital trail, whether it be with the text messages, whether it be with the emails, the DMs, the, the social whatever, whatever it is, there's actually a trace of everything except your phone conversations. So nowadays there's a paper trail with almost, with almost everything. So it's a whole lot easier. I know I'm telling my age, but it's definitely easier. And so, I mean, you've been in it so long and I know you've gotten so many lessons. When was the first time you were in a management situation where like you really felt like the artist was taken off? Was that B.O.B. or was that something earlier than that? I mean, the first time that I was in, in, okay, my first situation in management where the artist was really, I mean, all my artists did well. You know, not they, they were more regional, my early on artist. A matter of fact, the first dude that I ever managed he's big time nowadays. He goes by the name of Rob Hardy. Him and Will Packer started a company called Rainforest Productions here in Tallahassee, Florida, and Will Packer was a DJ and TJ's DJ's record pool. He was a DJ on the radio station here at FMU 90.5. But yeah, yeah, Rob was the first dude that I ever managed. Now he's a director and all that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Him and Will killed a gang. And I don't know where I was going away when I said that, but talking about management, ask me the question again. Well, yeah, just a good way to say it is one of the first time you really felt like you were winning and killing it in one of your management situations. Well, the first time I felt like I was winning and killing it was with B.O.B. OK, got you. You know, I didn't I never managed T-Pain. I tried to sign T-Pain to my label Wild Style back in the day and then I tried to come in on the management side also later on with his with his father, Brother Shahid. But I just, you know, broke the sprung record on a national, regional, national basis and and helped get him his deal, gave his music to the end. Our person meant his to sign him a job records. But I didn't necessarily manage him. But that was my first breakout. Anything in the world knew it. You know what I'm saying? And so I got so many things that came from my involvement and from everybody seeing and knowing what I did with that. But the first time my actual management was by, but go ahead. Well, yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because, like, what would it take? What does it take to break a record? I know it is different as far as, you know, technologies change. A lot of things are always changing some things that things are subjective to the artist, all that stuff in general. Like, what can you say as far as when you what you learned from breaking a record and now you, you know, been around several records that have broken. Several. B.O.B. has 14 and R.I.A. certified. That's just one artist, brother. One artist, man. I see an Australia plaque over there with five certifications. I see this Canada plaque with eight certifications. And we were a wide nut, but yeah, my fault didn't mean to interrupt. It is more than a couple. We're sure. But yeah, I mean, OK, so are we talking about in today's with today's music as far as how to break it today, because it was different back in the day. Definitely totally different back in the day. But today, what would you say today? And it may be all right. It's different. OK, I mean, the biggest thing for me is is it's like it's like you you got some people to come from the old school of working and setting up and breaking records. And then you have people to come from the new school that are more digital, social media driven content. Influencer driven for me, I like to use a combination of both because when it comes to these songs, you don't know. I mean, you can have a I mean, I got awesome here and I can hear a wreck and I can tell you what it is, but I don't always know what's going to connect with the people. You know what I'm saying? And so so many times you have to figure out how to put the music out there and give it life to to even see. So with breaking records nowadays, I mean, the quickest way is streaming, you know, getting on Spotify, getting on Tidal and and Apple Music and and all these very streaming platforms. And and it's one thing to be there. But there's 100 millions of however many songs there besides yours. So now that you're there, people have to find you. So the best way for people to find you and discover you and the best way for your music to spread when it comes to streaming is playlisting, getting on these various playlists. A lot of people get the playlists and stuff confused. I really don't understand. They don't know what the word means. And when you start talking playlists and just using Spotify, for example, you know, there's there's multiple levels of playlists. Most people want to start at the highest level and go for your rap caviar, which is the largest playlist there is. If you get on that playlist, you going to be on that playlist 30 to 60 days. And from being on that playlist, you're going to get millions of streams. And so everybody wants to, you know, because that you get on a rap caviar, you go you out of there. But, you know, you can't be on all these types on these top playlists. And and when it comes to playlists, I was just talking about the different levels, you got to understand who puts these playlists together. And those are called curators. Curators are like the modern DJs. They're like the modern and ours. These playlists are like the new modern global radio stations. You know. But you got the curators and the curators are the ones that put the playlists together. And that's who you reach out to to get your music on these playlists, where there's going to be different levels. The biggest playlists across the board are the Spotify curated playlists or even on Apple Music, the Apple Music curated playlists, the playlists that they curate themselves. They have different people in the building that are responsible for picking the music for those playlists. And it's up to you to get on their radar. It's up to you to try to find out who they are and build relationships with them so you can get on these playlists. But if they don't know you and you haven't really don't have nothing going on with your record, just not going to throw you on the top playlists like Grant Caviar. So then how does that work? Well, then there's other levels of playlists. So then you've got playlists that are ran by different brands, whether it be a magazine or or your favorite drink or whatever it is. But then they have those levels of playlists and you have smaller levels of playlists that might be individual DJs and and and keep people like that. And then on your favorite blog sites, everybody has playlists nowadays. And it's just a matter of finding out who the curator is for each of those playlists. And then you started the lowest level playlists, which is just people like me and you, you know, I'm saying your friends, your mom might have her little workout playlist that she adds her favorite songs to your dad might have is his his his Saturday barbecue playlist that he puts the songs on whenever he's cooking out on Saturday. He's going to run that playlist. But the lowest level are the easiest playlists for you to get on. But so many people neglect that. And they're so concerned with getting on these top playlists that they really don't stand a chance to get on right now to begin with that they don't even try to get on the lower. And so the key is getting on these lower playlists, stepping to your friends, stepping to your family, stepping to all your followers and getting them to add your music to their playlist. The personal playlist that alone shows activity with your music and that activity is seen by the Spotify algorithm, you know, I'm saying. And so when they start seeing activity, it's not a matter of the levels, it's the activity. And when they start to see the activity, you getting on these different playlists, then their algorithm is going to start adding you to playlists itself. You know what I'm saying? But so many people shoot for the top and don't realize and don't target all these other levels of playlists. So streaming, that's that's one of them. You know, so that's just one example from the streaming side. But streaming is so key. Another thing is probably one of the top forms of marketing right now is influenced in marketing. Everything is about the socials, you know, and I think fans, consumers, DJs, shoot, everybody has such a short attention span nowadays because of social media and everything just moves and comes so fast. I say everybody has ADD. So when it comes to pushing out a new song to these people, you know, you can't just OK, make a post with the song in the background. And now you posted that and you think that's going to stick. No, there's a million other songs that's coming out today on somebody else's socials the same exact way. And so you have to figure out how to get this stuff to stick in the people, stick with the people until they until they remember it, until they know it, until they fall in love with it. And influencers are one of the best ways to do that. You compare an influencer to go ahead and do something with your product, whether it's a song, just say it's a song. OK, now you pay it, whether it's a big twerk girl that all she does is twerk, but she has millions of followers that it watches all her twerk videos. OK, well, yeah, they're not watching her to hear your song, but they're watching that. And when they're watching that, they're hearing something. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? And as long as they're hearing it, that's good. And it's just all about the repetition. And so you get a big influencer. OK, so we had a big influencer do something. He posted. But because he posted this person posted next thing, I know it's on Worldstar, you know what I'm saying? So that that influencer video had a good 10 million views. So all the views, they heard the song. They might not realize they're hearing the song. They might not realize what it is, but it's the repetitionist is getting familiar. OK, then now you have another influencer do something. You know, and then all of a sudden they hearing that same song again. I had an artist call me the other day and he's a rapper now. He's a rapper. He's a street rapper. But he called me and rap every word of my artist. My other artist trap Beckham's verse. And he knew it not because he tried to learn it. Yeah, but because there's so much activity going on in the socials with that song in the background that he just automatically learned the words not even trying. And that's what I'm talking about the repetition, you know, so the influences are really good. And it's a great way to break your records because it's getting heard and it's not requiring radio. It's not requiring the DJ to play it. And you get the right influencer to do it. You'll see you'll see everything grow. You'll see. OK, not only did that person get 10 plus million views, but the artist Instagram followers shot up. You know, saying the stream spike. And it's like, OK, there's a huge ground swell all because it's one person made a video. You know what I'm saying? And so all that stuff helps. So that's the influencer side. You're trying to figure out ways to keep people keep putting your song, keep putting your product or your brand or whatever it is in front of people. So they keep seeing it. They keep hearing it. Then another way, you know, is challenges. Because once again, with the social media, it's all about content. And back in the day, I could just post one one one one one one video or one whatever and people it would stick with people. But nowadays I can't. So if I'm releasing the single, I'm trying to figure out a way that I can have at least three weeks of content built up so every day I can keep dropping something with that record. So they keep hearing. And so that's content that I create. So now I'm jumping back to the challenges. The challenges are content with your music or whatever your product is. These are this is content generated by fans and users. This is content that you don't have to create is created for free. And so they're posting it on their stuff. Or they're using an app like Triller, which is great for challenges. It's man. Yeah, and you see all these people make videos with Triller. Man, Triller man. Man, shout out Triller man. I love y'all. You know, like just say the new single we did. And we got the challenge going. But on Triller is the feature challenge. I think it's 900 plus videos. I need to look again. It might even be more now. But it was a few million views. It was 3.4 million views of the challenge videos. So there's 3.4 million times of people heard the song, whether they was trying to hear the song or not. And so all these things are helping you get people, you know what I'm saying? Familiar. So the challenge is you just repost their content. You know what I'm saying? So now you're showing love to the fans. And so they loving you because you posting their stuff. So when you post, they're going to repost it again. And they stories at least. But this is all content now that you have every day from other people that you can just posted your own song. Boom, boom, boom, boom. And so it's just sticking. You know, so okay, so now we hop from that side. You about to say something? No, yeah, I was just saying dope because one thing I hear constantly from you is really I break it down into active and passive listening like that active, like they're going to the song or the videos, the content might focus on the music, but then still hearing it's subliminally in all these other ways too. So it sticks like and I know it works because I remember the first time like you said that artist did. First time I realized that happened to me with the song was actually like ushers. Like if you're feeling your body's like somebody like the like just on a radio when I was a kid, and I look saying the whole song through and I was like, I even know I knew that song. And I understand how that happens as well. And so people are traditionally done that with radio, you know, I'm saying, but now with social media, you can do the same thing, but you can control it. Yeah. So now I'm going to hop from the influencer, influencer and the socials and all that stuff. And I'm going to hop to the DJs. You know, so many people nowadays forget about the DJ so many of these young artists because of social media and and then become a social media stars and celebrities, you know, they may be able to bypass the DJs at first. And and so many of these other artists watching how these new artists are getting on, they're thinking that that's the way so they follow me to the DJs are still so important and so key. You know, socials are beautiful. The streaming is lovely. But you still need to you still want the streets. You know, you still if it's that type of record, you still need it played in the club. You still need it on these mixtapes. You still need the DJs playing it in their mixtapes. You still need these relationships. You know, even more importantly, what about when you don't have a breakout record? And then what you're going to do, you can't do nothing and you can't go run to them in, you know, so you need to build a relationship with these DJs so they can support you now as you're trying to win or even when you not. But because you built that relationship and they and they like you and they mess with you, then they support you. I remember Trinidad James all gold everything. You know, it broke on socials. You know, it broke with the video and and went bananas. And I tell you, it broke so big so fast. You know, he really didn't build his foundation in Atlanta with the DJs. And so after that all gold everything record, he not he like, like I go do interviews with my other artists and we just be sitting there talking and every talking like how he never came by the station even when the record was hot. You know, and so when he wasn't hot, you know, he couldn't go back to him like that. You know what I'm saying? And so many people don't understand the importance of that. And these people these people take it personal. But the DJs man, they're everything. And, you know, they're the front line for me. You know, all my records for the most part have been broke by the DJs. And if I didn't have them, then I wouldn't have I wouldn't be able to do none of the stuff that I'm able to do or or have done. But the DJs are very important. You know, okay, a lot of people tell me they don't know how to get to the DJs or who the DJs are. You know, I think all that shit's so lame. You got social media right now. And really all you got to do is find a DJ, find a DJ, whoever's a poppin, you ain't got to know nothing, whoever whoever the poppin DJ is in your city that you hear them shouting out on the radio, whatever, you ain't got to do nothing to go find him on Instagram. And then you can do something as simple as going and looking at who he's following. DJs a lot of times follow DJs. You know what I'm saying? So you can go look at who he's following and go through his following list and click on each DJ that he's following. You know what I'm saying? And go to their profile and follow them. And you know, if and if you want to and you're not feeling lazy today, like you might feel a lot of the times, you can also on their profile see a little button that says email or text, huh? Yeah, or message. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you can easily send them a message in the DM with your song in the link, hint, hint. And then go back to their profile after you send the message and then click the email button. And then when it pops up in your email program, you're supposed to paste the same thing in there with the same damn link. All right. And then you copy the email address. And after you copy the email address, you hit send. And then you go to your notepad in your phone on your computer and you paste the email. And you can do that for each one. And before you know it, you have a full email list in whatever city and whatever area you want. So all y'all with that stuff talking about what y'all can't do and not what you don't know. Man, y'all are just lazy and you don't even try. I just gave you some super game. But most of y'all don't even want to put forth the effort. That's so true. Like that same applies to influencers and other type of people you're trying to find. I have a lot of influencers and it's not even it's not even something you can really answer for somebody. It's like, what's the type of influencer that likes your type of music? But you, but you got to do the work of all that that process right there. You got to go through that process unless you're going to pay me a hefty sum. That's not what I do. But if I was going to do a hefty sum to find it for you, because that's a real like it takes time. Yeah, you got to go do it if you want it. So that's but it's easy though. It's not even like it's a game. It's just tedious. It's just tedious. But it's simple. Listen, you can train a monkey to do it. Straight up. Yeah, it's just tedious. And most people don't want to take the time and it really don't have to be even as tedious as it sounds. If you know how to use technology, you know, and I'm just going to give y'all some more games. So yeah, I told you to go and be in the message. I told you to go and send them email. But did you realize that, you know, if you have an iPhone, there's a thing called the little auto text thing. You know, and so that whole little sentence or phrase that you're going to send them in the DM and in the email, you can create an auto text entry in your in your iPhone. You just go to what is it general, then go to keyboard, then go to the text auto. I forgot what it's called in the text correction auto text, but then go in there and then you just put the phrase in and then just create a abbreviation whether it's whether it's two letters. And every and when you go to them, be you just type that two letter and then it's going to fill out the whole sentence with the link and everything in there. You click through to the email. You type them two letters again, it's going to fill out the email and you hit send. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so it can all be effortless. But once again, you all got to make the effort. So OK, so now then I was talking about the DJ standpoint with breaking records, you know, like there's so many ways that you can go at it. And then an old school street method, you know, getting out in the streets, passing out CDs, even though they're not as effective as they used to be and not useful in a lot of situations, but they still are useful in some. You know, so I still think it's good to have some CDs on you to be able to pass out, depending on what kind of event you at, making sure you go to the barbershops and the hair salons and making sure they have the music, go to the little corner stores and gas stations and making sure they have copies of the music to give out on the counters, you know, old school posters. But the standard old school street promo and then last, but not least, your social media promo in marketing. Not not the content in the influential stuff I was talking about, but more or less advertising. Man, Facebook is the cheapest, most cost effective way that you can advertise nowadays. And then Facebook owns Instagram and and so it's like, man, between the Facebook and Instagram marketing promo, you can put your stuff out and I know you talked to Jen, so I don't need to say too much because he is a guru, but between all that stuff and put your music in front of people, it's not even checking for you. Or even if it is like, like, like and and and people don't realize, you know, you can set all this up through Facebook. You can use the Facebook as business manager and and and target and your ads. But the one one option that you can get through Facebook that you can't get through Instagram, but it's your Instagram ads that you're setting up through Facebook is you can target your ads at at anybody that has engaged with your Instagram account in the last 12 months. You know, so just because somebody liked it or looked at a video, you know, they might have forgot about you and it's not that they aren't interested. They just don't know and they haven't seen anything and it's funny to me. It's funny to me how many artists feel like advertising is cheating. They want to be organic and advertising isn't organic. Well, you know how crazy y'all sound, man. You think Apple says that when they drop a new damn iPhone. Oh, every brand you think you think Atlantic says that with Cardi B. No, they put millions of dollars into the market and to make sure they put it in front of everybody. Yeah, you know, but you have to put it in front of people so they can see it in the first place to make that decision whether or not they want to listen. Yeah. And they it just trips me out how how how they they feel like it's she nor or it's not right. And man, that is business one or one. At the end of the day, you have to figure out with your music. How are you going? You first off, you got to find a place for it to live. Number two, you got to figure out how you're going to give it like and I can't tell you none of that for sure. I'm going to shoot at all these methods to try to find the right one. And if all of them work or whatever, that's the more the merrier. But I'm not limiting my odds, you know, in breaking this record. I'm going to try to expose it every way possible. I'm going to use all the methods that I told you to make sure I expose it to people till I find something to catch. And this record actually gets life. It's weird that in the marketplace today, there is this big pushback or desire to be organic as if it makes them. Right. And I don't and organic and marketing don't necessarily go hand in hand. Like at the beginning, it has to be artificial. I don't care if you didn't pay any money, but I asked you the fact I asked you to listen to my song personally is me putting in some artificial effort to get you to listen. Like you want to you want to start or spark some organic. That's what you want your artificial marketing to do. But you've got to get like that ball rolling. And like you there's so many people that are like, I'll do a video about artists on the channel, for example. And someone might be like, oh, man, this is fake or their industry plan or they paid or they have money. And it's like you're talking about them for the methods they use, but they're on there where you want to get. Like so try to use those methods as opposed to I don't understand but you but they they they're killing themselves up for sure. So what would that be and say like what mentality? Or what do you seek for when you look at a artist that you want to manage? Because obviously are you managed B.O.B. right? I would love to know even how you came on to his situation because that situation is like unique for me because it was the first artist that I got to see personally go from like he was just Bobby to me. He was a dude on the school bus and then, you know, like dropping out of school all that stuff I remember hearing and we're seeing all that stuff and then next thing you know, he like on TV for real and all that stuff. You know, like how did that happen and what did you what made you actually want to manage him? You know, funny thing is and I told this story and even on Tuesday night, my boy DJ funkies with the coalition DJs. He called me was August 14 2006. I was in Atlanta for the court DJ retreat and he called me talking about man come come to the club come mess with me, man. You don't you don't hang out with me no more. He's like, come on, man, stop sounding like that. No, man, you know, it's out of the eyebrow. I'm going to come to the club tonight. You know, I'm going to hang out with you. And so he's the only reason I went to the club crucial to your club. And and I wasn't there to see no talent. I didn't know what was going on. I didn't know was I didn't know was open mic. I didn't know nothing. All I knew was funky, wanted me to come to the club and hang out with. So that's what I did. And I wasn't paying no attention to no groups. I wasn't into that that night. That ain't you know what I'm saying? So but then all of a sudden this kid performed. And it's like he got my attention and I'm bobbing my head. Next thing I know I'm waving my hand side to side. The next thing I know I'm singing the song. And I'm looking at myself like, bro, what are you doing, bro? Because I'm into it. And then I'm asking people next to me, you know, hey, who's who's dude? I don't know. Hey, what's that song? And I ain't never heard that before. So I'm like, OK, these Atlanta radio and people can DJ and they don't know who this is. So soon as he got done performing, I walked down to the stage like, hey, bro, my name's TJ. You know, what's your name? He was like B.O.B. I was like, do you have management? And the first thing that I seen when I was watching him on stage and I was waving my hand from side to side, singing along the song. All I could see in my head was that this was my makeup for T-Pain. You know what I'm saying? That's all I could think in my head, OK, this your makeup for T-Pain. This your makeup for T-Pain. This your makeup for T-Pain. And so I went down to Holladad and asked me to have management. And he was like, yeah, you pointed over there. And then next thing I know here come B. Rich walking up laughing and B. Rich managing, you know. And so then we talked. But I asked B. Rich, why are you laughing, man? He's like, why are you laughing? He's like, man, why are you like him now? You ain't never like him before. And I was like, what's you talking about? I never seen the kid in my life, bro. And I didn't really like B. Rich the whole lot either, man, because he was funny. But and he was like, what you mean you ain't no one? Man, I used to send you his music. I even tried to pay you to work his rent. I'm like, oh, what are you talking about? He was like, man, he was part of the clinic. I was like, hold on, the clinic. He was like, yeah, I was like, bro, the clinic sucked. I didn't really like the clinic, though. He used to try to pay me to work the clinic, promote the clinic, send email, blast out, whatever. Anything that I would do for the clinic. But I didn't like the clinic. So I wouldn't take his money and I wouldn't do nothing. Yeah. So Bob left the clinic. And when I seen him, it was his first little solo performance as B.O.B. first time he performed Cloud 9. And I just happened to be there in the building. And went down, talked to him. We all linked, partnered up. Week and a half later, taking meetings, label deal meetings, label meetings with the majors. Month and a half later, October 3rd, 2006, his contract was signed with Atlantic Records. And it's been history ever since then. We're going on 13 years coming up in August. So it's just plain of here that I was Cloud 9 because that was that joint for me back in the day. I used to play that. Yeah, I used to play out a lot, a whole lot. Was that I remember hearing like back then? Like that he was the crucial one that night at Crucial. Do he have the guitar with him that night? No, no, he didn't play the guitar yet. He hadn't even started playing guitar yet then. He did play guitar at Club Crucial another night. OK, it was a poor DJ. He came in there with the band playing the guitar, rocked out. But the guitar was something that he learned. And we matter of fact, when he got signed, he got signed by Jim Johnson. They were rebel rock and Jim has his situation through Atlantic. So we ended up moving to Miami and he would always be in the studio with Jim. Jim used a lot of guitars and he had a guitar player named Frank Franco. And Bob just just just matched with with Frank. And then Bob started taking guitar lessons on his own acting class. Like he took all this stuff as a 17 year old kid now with his own money. He wanted to perfect his craft and his art. So he took he took acting classes. He took guitar classes. He took singing classes to perfect himself as an artist. And so you were saying it was funny because you saw him, you know, at the 11 then and all the way up to the one time, we're at the point where it just skyrocketed. But it was so much work put in in between. You know, nothing on you didn't come out till 2010. He signed in 2006. So in that four year period, we dropped seven mixtapes and went on seven different tours. So all those were foundation building techniques to build Bob, you know, to build his fan base. Our whole philosophy was just building fans one person at a time. And and that's just the way we went about it. But yeah, so all these things laid his foundation, you know. And so when he finally had that big record, he had been on the cover of all the magazines every every every every outlet, every media outlet had Bob next for years. It was just OK. OK, when is it going to happen? You know what I'm saying? But he was he was he was the darling of all the media. That's the process. Go ahead. That's perfect because I would like to I mean, you know, you're the perfect person to ask because for me, you know, he's such a unique artist, right? And like he's very diverse and so many artists want to be diverse. Like so many people say you want to be diverse and they not they aren't diverse for real, but he is like truly diverse. And I remember like, you know, are the cloud nines and things like that. And and then, you know, the it was a track that was that that would be on the radio everywhere. And then I'll be in the sky. Exactly. Those tracks were like some of them were a little bit smokers, some of them were a little bit more Atlantic to cater a little bit hood. Then he'll have the ones that are more poppy or untruthy thousand s. But when he blew up with the nothing on you, right? That was straight pop. And what I saw, because I was just, you know, but it wasn't though. Well, if it wasn't Bruno Boyce on there, it could have been urban and it went number one urban. True. But so it's a universal sound. But go ahead. But from like a kid's perspective, and I'm just reading YouTube comments and stuff like that at the time, like any of the airplanes and stuff like that, like that that introduced them to such a pop world. And then when I started to see just watching as more music got released from a comments perspective, I would see he might do something back more on the, you know, Atlanta hood or tight side sometimes. And then the pop fans will be calling the sell out. And then I'll see, you know, and then the, you know, then when he's doing the pop stuff, the hood people are looking at it one way. What is that like from the inside? On some real shit right there. It's like, it's like as an artist, you work all your life to become a superstar. That's what you want. That's what you're working for. Bob come from the hood. You know what I'm saying? He don't come from no suburban night place of fan, you know, he come, he come, he come from Decatur. He come and that's what he how he grew up. It just so happened that he makes worldly music. Yeah. And and so when he got on, he just made universal song. He never wanted to be a pop guy. You know what I'm saying? And and and really that don't it don't even sit well with him. You know, a lot of people always wonder why like, yo, man, you know that's what every rapper aspires to be. But you know, he wanted to be embraced by his his people. And he just he just made really big music. And you know, it ended up becoming it's a gift and a curse. Having all these different types of fans have been able to make all different kind of records. And having all this success, the fan base is so huge and so diverse between the age groups to the cultures to to everything. It's almost impossible for him to make something nowadays that going to go well with everybody. And and so then it it it you know, becomes something you have to deal with and people on the outside really don't really don't get it and they don't understand. And and when you the artist, you just want to make records. Yeah, never never tried to you know what I'm saying? Never tried to do it all. The only poppy record that was on the album that it was like, OK, damn, this this thing is is is is pop to pop was magic. You know, him with River's Cuomo, you know, it went double platinum. It might be triple now. But you know, that was the pop record. Yeah. We did airplanes on B.T. with Keisha Cole singing. You know what I'm saying? And so if you had Keisha on there over Haley now, that song has an urban feel. There were universal records of what they were pop. It was what was put on them. They made it took him that route. Yeah. But yeah, so he never tried to do that. And and so, you know, so it's been a gift in the curse and and to be honest, it's something that, you know, did he did he did he deals with like and it's and it's crazy. It's crazy from a management standpoint to know no matter what he does and no matter how good it is, it don't matter. It's going to be a segment of people that's going to hate and bash, you know. And it's just like, wow, but that's it. That's just hard. It's weird. That's why I was asking because I was so deep into it. And I would literally I have because before you say before you before you say that, let me say this because I just have fun artist that gets confusing. You know what I'm saying? OK, so you're making this sound and then your fans start talking about hold up now you selling out and this and this and this ain't what you're trying to be. So now you're trying to make something to please them. But when you do that, you know, then you've got these people over here now bashing you and this is OK. Should have done if I do damn if I don't. That's exactly what I was actually about to say. I'll say I know I interrupted that was it. No, that was. It was confusing me because I have a diverse like type of music that I like because of just how I grew up. There will be so many different types of my dad. And so I could enjoy both sides and then knowing the journey of where he came from and all that stuff. So I'll be looking at comments. I'm like, bro, what do you mean? Bro, what do you mean? But it was it's always imagine that was a wild situation and he came out with no drama trying to make a point. Like, you know what I mean? Like there was so many. But yeah, I always wonder like how like what that was. So that's why when I hear artists talk about being diverse, especially when it's truly diverse, like some people are stylistically diverse. You can do a lot, but you're still in this pocket like Tory Lane, right? He's like he might he can write and do anything, but it's stuff that he might write for people and do that stuff that's right outside the pocket. But as far as his music, he keeps it pretty much in a pocket, you know, and it has similar overlapping fan base. But like to just do it how Bobby did it. And like he never came out with that rock album that I remember was talking about. At least I didn't catch it. And he's got it. He got all that music and he got he got a whole bunch of projects. That's all he does. His record. So I imagine he makes music a lot. I just want to know if like for if for an artist, I definitely wanted to get your opinion and your insight, which you shared a lot because I think artists don't know what they're what it actually looks like. We always they hear the message of organic so much and they hear the message of it doesn't matter just make what you want. You can be diverse and consumers are not as trained for diverse music as you really think. Like they just aren't. They aren't they are receptive even. Yeah, it just is what it is. So though I really appreciate that. Like and we track back track back them as well. Like how did you come across his situation? What made like what made you even decide to take on another artist? You know with with trap. It was funny because I was in we had just finished a forty three city tour. I think it was with B.O.B. And our last day of the tour was in Miami. You know our last day to that tour was in Miami and and so everybody left. I was leaving to go home because it was last day of tour, but I wanted to unwind. So I didn't leave. I stayed an extra day in Miami. Everybody else was gone. I wanted to chill out after that been on the road for two months and on a bus and so I stayed. And so when I checked in my hotel, there were some guys over there and I was looking at them and one of them had it where they had on Def Jam gear. And I was like, OK, then that's OK. Well, no, how do I got that Def Jam gear? Because you know, you just can't find Def Jam gear where you can just go buy it like that. And so it's like, OK, but. I know he don't look like no, he ain't on Def Jam. Oh, I never heard of him. I know he ain't on Def Jam. So after I got my key, I started walking off and then the person was like, yeah, I know we in the right hotel because Mr. Chapman in this one. And then I was like, oh, and I looked up and I knew I knew one of the guys with him and he just started talking to me and start walking to the room. Tommy, they had just got signed by Def Jam that it was trapped back. I'm like, oh, damn, that's pretty cool. I was like, I didn't know dude like that. So after that, I just started watching his socials, you know, because I was like, OK, well, damn, you know what, respect for Def Jam is just coming and just picking up an artist, you know, that I'm not familiar with like that. I like that. So I just started watching. I was impressed with all the movement, everything going on. So then one day I got a call from a friend of mine saying that the guy who trapped assigned to wanted to meet with me. And so I met with him. Then I met with him in Atlanta. I ran into him in LA, ran into him back in Atlanta again in Jacksonville. So it was like, OK, well, damn, he running into him. We talked. He told me about the deal situation and he needed somebody to come in and and teach them, you know, because they didn't know what they were doing. And so they needed somebody to come in to try to help get the situation straight with Def Jam and as well as just God trapped in the team period. And when I went to hear the music, you know, I was just like, OK, and I like the sound and I just, I don't know why I just felt like, you know, like, you know, maybe this dude has like the next sound and the way I kept running into Steve, he was like, OK, you know what? For some reason, I just feel like I'm supposed to do this and and I did. I'm a big believer in my gut. Yeah. I go, I'm a big believer in vibes on people and in situations. And I always go on my gut. I've found just being in the industry and in life. The only time that I've been wrong is when I went against it. And so I go off my gut, man. And, you know, it just told me, hey, TJ, you know, this is something you're supposed to do. And and it's funny because everything is really coming together and he's developing and he's making great records. And so I'm actually really excited. But it was something that initially I did on faith. OK, don't go like it. What break speaking of like the industry and being signed and things like that, what do you feel like the biggest difference is for both of these artists are signed, but this artist takes off. This one is in the industry and signed consistently with a situation and they're surviving, they're doing well, but they aren't taken off, taken off. I mean, a lot of times it has to do with team, you know, team is everything. And I can't preach that enough to artists, man. You know, and it's funny because I I deal with I deal with man, so many artists, bro, like it's crazy. And I and I just give people advice and tips and tell them how to deal with situations. And so. Man, it's it's it's crazy. How many artists are in situations with bad management? And the whole reason their career isn't taken off is because their manager don't know what to do or how to do it. They may not be professional. They may not be good at dealing with people. They may not be good at just handling business. You know, and and and it's so sad. And then when your management and your team isn't good, you know, that's kind of a turn off for the label. And it'll make them stop doing whatever it is they're doing, whether it's putting you out on the road, whether it's spending money like what y'all got to realize is these people are inspired by your work ethic. And if you're not working and they don't see you out here trying and making things happen and doing things you need to do as an artist, you know what, they're not inspired or excited and they're going to stop doing whatever it was they were doing and move on to the next artist. It is where you realize what's going on or not. And so that can easily be one of the things your management and your team are like they're up to. It can easily be your work ethic. Most of y'all don't want to work. Most of y'all feel like sitting in the studio all day, smoking, drinking and doing whatever else it is you do is the grind. But really, if you have access to a studio, how hard is that to sit back in a chair and chill out and get drunk and high and you know what I'm saying? Get dancing, whatever you got going on in that thing. And then more importantly, it might just be the music. You know, I mean, can nothing make up for the lack of music. But then it's like I say that and I contradict myself because we're in a new age and in this new age, to be honest with you, the music is secondary to the people actually liking you. And that's everything. And so back in the day, it was the music when it came to getting deals. Today, these labels are going after social media celebrities with tons of followers that are already pay attention to what they do and like what they do. So from the label standpoint, they know you already have some type of captive audience, so it's way easier for them to convert that captive audience to fans and tap into them and to their buying power. You know what I'm saying? And then it is to try to just create all these new fans. And so that's what they're buying into. And then, you know, even though there's a difference between followers and fans, you can convert those followers to fans number one. And then even with the followers, you can attach a certain dollar amount per person, you know, to just come up with what you can potentially generate. And that's how they look at these things. And they like Atlantic is a built in system, you know. And so between Craig Kamen and Mike Herron, all they do is buy records. They buy records and they got a stockpile of records that they buy beats, hooks. And when you come in, depending on the artist and what it is and the sound and style, they're going to go in that vault and pull out some of them hits they had stashed away waiting for the right time to use. You know, so once you already have a fan base, it's easy to give you the records and push you. It's harder when you have the music, but the people don't even find you cool. Interesting, interesting. That definitely makes sense, because from a company standpoint, right? You already have your system. I can basically calculate based on your numbers, what my system would do to you. Like, I know the most out of the middle career. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Well, so to change the Russian and kind of like close out a little bit, really curious the fact that, I mean, you've had, you know, considerable success at what you do as a manager, right? And a lot of people, not even your level and above, but even people who've had success, but less success than you wouldn't be sharing as much as you do, right? You do the free music reviews, TV, like all that stuff. Like you listen, you share what causes you to actually be so involved and touch bases of artists hand to hand as you do so much. I mean, to be honest, that's what I've done my whole life. And that's how I built my brand. That's how I built who I am and everything I'm able to do. You know, I started out with TJ DJs, which was a record pool and grew that. But the thing that made everything take off was when I started doing my conference and I did a call to taste makers only was a conference I did four times a year every quarter. And it was a platform for everybody and everybody that you can think of that it's in Southern Rap would come through my event, you know, and man, it was a launching pad like dog. It'll blow your mind. You know, all these Southern artists, it was a launching pad for the first time T paint ever performed sprung was at my TJ's DJ. The first time Gucci man performed so icy was at TJ's DJs. He didn't know the song, you know what I'm saying? He didn't even know the lyrics yet. He forgot the lyrics on stage, you know, the first time by perform, I'll be in the sky was at TJ DJs until I hit the moon. But I mean, I can go on and on and on and on. And there were so many firsts and so many of these big artists, you know, and even an event that I started with Julia Beverly called the Ozone Awards. That was real huge. You didn't know 60708 these things were was was like the Ozone Awards was aired worldwide on the various MTV networks, you know. So it's like I've always had a platform for helping artists and and and using the platform and using the relationships and and and the people that I'm tapped into to help grow in and break their music. And so I've always been given, you know, we just didn't have social media. I wish we did back then. But like, I like to help people. I like to to to to coach like I just I like seeing people win, man. I like being involved. I like changing people's lives. I like creating stars. I like doing things that people say, you know, that I can't do. And it's just this is just what I've what I've always done, man. And I just want to see artists win. I give you another example. You know, I used to manage K camp. I was with camp and I was behind. I helped get him his deal with Interscope. And I was one of the executive producers on the Interscope release. But yeah, I was behind the money, baby, to cut that bitch off. Comfortable, you know, all those records. And so I had met his mom when he was 16. She she she told me we became friends. Then one day she called me, told me she had a son. He rapped, asked if I give give him feedback on his music. I was like, cool, I got on the phone with him. Music really wasn't that good. I told him I wasn't feeling the music what he needed to work on. You know, his mom called back said, thanks. She said, you know, I don't know what I said, but it kind of made him a little upset or whatever. But he vowed to keep working and tell I like this music. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And he would call me. He would text me or email me or whatever. Hey, man, what's going on? Hey, I got this. Check this out and I was always a mentor to him and his mom. And I was a mentor to him and his mom for years, maybe like four or five before I ever got involved with the management, with the money, baby, and cut her off. But me giving people help, me giving for providing value to people. It builds a trust factor with them and my brand. And so, you know, it with that and enabled me to come in on a situation that was already in place. You understand? And the same with the B.O.B. It was a situation already in place. The same with Travis, a situation already in place. But I know what to do to take whatever it is from here up here, you know, but it's the given information. It's it's helping people out. It provides credibility for me and my brand to be able to move. And, you know, I mean, it just helps you. I mean, I make money from it. I don't make money from giving advice, but because of the trust built from that, I make money from it indirectly. You know, people want my services. People want to submit music for my show. People want me to come speak at their van or host store or come in or their project or whatever it may be. So that's why I do it, man, because I like helping people, man. And and and I feel like I'm blessed from it. Oh, OK. Last question. What is there anything else that you want to accomplish within music or if it's outside of music, another industry or side product? You know, I don't know in music. It's like I want to do something else, but it's like I'm so good at this. And I got so much experience and I know everybody. It don't make sense. But, you know, I still say I still want to have a successful record label one day. I mean, I've had labels in the past, you know, been involved. I mean, I was one of the founding members and one of the owners of No John, the LB's label. But I've been in other label situations, have my own label. But I'd like to have a successful label before I leave this business, before I leave it alone. It ain't got to be a long term thing. And this would be my label and me having some some some record breaking projects. And then I'm cool. But yeah, outside, I mean, I I should I like to eat, man. I like to eat. I like to cook. And I would love to just be able to chill out one day and open up a double restaurant lounge and and just just kick back. So I've got to have the hookers in there, though. Got to have the hookers. Got to have the hookers. All right. Don't appreciate you once again, man. And everybody, follow TJ at TJ's DJs. That information will be in the description. I'll have his Instagram up on the screen. All that good stuff. You already know who I am. Ram and Sean would love to know you guys thoughts on the interview. Put it in the comment section below. If you like this video, go ahead and like it. If you like it, you might as well share it and if you're not subscribed, you know what to do. Hit that subscribe button.