 What's up guys time for another daily dose of classic today. We're actually gonna be talking about a little bit of twitch stuff This is it's gonna be related to the game a little bit and kind of like discoverability and kind of like the the Like long like kind of like the long-term success of classic. Wow Just kind of some thoughts that have been on my mind Again, this is being recorded live on my stream. I do this at the start of every stream I'm supposed to start at 3 p.m. Every day, but some days. I'm a little bit late Which was a 3 p.m. Central time that is which that was certainly the case today But anyway, so Something I want to talk about is yesterday yesterday at the time of this recording The if you looked at twitch and you go to the browse section you look at twitch you go to the browse section the Wow section logo was changed to The classic while ago Open a major new tab. Yeah, this is the classic while cover art. It's it's like the new ragged or else whatever So basically twitch is kind of like prepared For kind of classic to be like the the new big thing, right? I know I've personally like kind of had like I've gotten a chance to talk to some people from twitch the success of the classic beta on twitch was It was definitely something to take note of right and a lot of people think a lot of people twitch think that you're gonna see the Same thing whenever it actually launches because one of the beta was just the beta right like it was cool Because we hadn't seen it like legally in such a long time, but at the same time At the same time It wasn't the real thing and there was a lot of things that it's just gonna be very different, right? It's gonna be fun. There's gonna be a lot more people playing. It's gonna be very very exciting I Think and this is kind of the topic that came up yesterday For a lot of people a lot of people were bringing this up Should the wow section be the wow section should it be world of Warcraft or Should there be world of Warcraft classic and world of Warcraft? Retail BFA whatever make them separate because the examples that are cited, right is look at RuneScape You have the RuneScape section and You have the OSRS you have the old school RuneScape What's old school RuneScape section right so you have two sections right RuneScape is that two K viewers old school Old school is that seven K viewers, right? So so there's a total of nine between the two but what twitch and Jax decided to do is or Jax or Jagax. I don't know how to I don't know how to pronounce it but Basically what they decided to do is that hey, we're gonna split up the sections for whatever reasons, right? They kind of their own reasons for that. I'm sure maybe it's because they're two completely different games Whatever and that's what a lot of people are bringing up for classic I think and I feel pretty strongly about this. I think that they should not split up the sections I think that it's really important to have two sections. There's have one section even though you have like essentially two different games They're still under like one name, right? They're still under one name. It's it's still World of Warcraft That's what it is and Blizzard is very clearly Blizzard is very clearly trying to I Think they're trying to make sure that it's still under one umbrella, right? They're they're running one MMO You have a shared sub for both games. You don't have to buy an expansion or anything like that And I'll tell you why I'll tell you why that I think they shouldn't split it here in a second One of the big reasons why and it's interesting for me to see this because I see a lot of streamers. Oh, they should split it They should split it Twitch has recently brought out a tag system, okay Twitch has recently brought out a tag system and you can use that to like let's look at the hearthstone section Is it hearthstone? Yeah, it's like class warrior, right? Class Rogue you're able to tag your stream based on whatever section that it's in With like classic or retail or something if you wanted to do that, right? That's one thing, right? And you can even filter, right? You can filter warrior class warrior Lupus day is cheered x 500 If I might interrupt the runescape dev is pronounced to jiggly sex gaming. Thank you carry on Thanks Thanks, Lupus day is appreciate that. Thanks for the 500 bits, dude So now you determine your decision based on twitch. Wait, what what are you talking about? That like we're literally talking about twitch like that's that's what we're talking about. What is it? What are you talking about Lenny? So here's the thing Yeah, like that's like we're literally talking Question mark. Okay, so what I'm saying is whenever you go and and this is like a concept of like Directory and section strength and a lot of people like you have some streamers who are saying like oh like you should split it up or whatever But I think what's best for twitch and what's best for the stream what's best for wow Is actually that you have these two sections combined, right? Directory is a really like I think directory plays a Strong role in the discoverability of streams, right? Let's say let's say you have This stream let's say you have the wow section right here, right? You have the wow section at 25k views With whoever is streaming in it whatever and it right now is the one two three four five Six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteenth ranked stream on twitch I count that right one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen Okay, yeah, it is the 14th ranked section on twitch right over apex over pub g or Madden which just came out All this stuff, right? So it's the 14th ranked section if you were to take this and you were to take classic streamers and retail streamers and You were split them up into two different sections right You what would end up happening is you would have one section one directory That ends up getting dropped down into this range, right? And there's different like viewership thresholds is it confirmed classical have its own section So you're gonna have this feature filtering for class. No, no, that's not what I was talking about baller. I'm talking about I'm talking about filters between classic and retail, right? That's what I was talking about the the filter that I showed was hardstone specifically But this is filters are a new one to which right and honestly if it were me I would say that they should have OSRS and Rinscape In the same section as well, right because look at like we looked at seven This was 7k earlier and Rinscape was at 2k earlier, right? So What would happen if you're in this case and we're talking about discoverability of streamers, right? to which wants to what twitch should want to do is they should want to have Different streamers maybe smaller streamers. It's not just all about the big guys, okay? To have an opportunity to get seen so Rinscape is at 2.3 and old school Rinscape is at 6.7, right? So so they're effectively at 7 point or sorry Effectively, it's at a 9.1 K right now What ends up happening? If you were to combine OSRS and and Rinscape sections It would knock it up over here Super Mario Maker 2, right and Super Mario Maker 2 like just came out. What like a month ago or something like that Is that choice up to Blizzard twitch? I think it's I think it's up to Blizzard I would think and they would work with twitch on that, right? But I'm pretty sure that it's up to Blizzard. So what ends up happening here is all these Rinscape streamers Who are down here their section their section is is Like just absolutely buried behind all kinds of stuff, right? Warcraft 3 the frozen throne is over Rinscape dark souls 3 Starcraft 2 Final Fantasy 7, which I might play before class that comes out is Is is over is over that section, right? So yeah, Ocarina of Time like there's so many things over the Rinscape section right now And what happens is people who are trying to stream Rinscape are ended up kind of getting screwed, right? Yeah, when you lose to Warcraft 3 and 5, I mean, yeah, these are literally games that came out like 15 years ago, right over 15 years ago wait Anyway, anyway As I was saying if you look at you know the top Rinscape streamer right now He's at 1500 views. He would actually be at the top of the section in old school, right? He'd actually be at the top of the section old school But just because he's playing normal Rinscape, he's kind of getting screwed, right? Because it just happens to be more people streaming Rinscape and then it ends up getting pushed to the top if you look at the power of directory Right look at GTARP GTARP got launched so so like far like so heavily into the limelight that this has regularly been one of the top streams One of the top sections on Twitch ever since it blew up again before twitchcon, right? It made Vader's career for example and a bunch of other guys Buddha so on Buddha's another classic guy actually he's a big classic Wow guy, but he's a he mains GTARP. I don't know why they do that It's way literally three head and your ideas five head. Yeah, I mean, well, they are a three-head company, right? so That's how it goes so Yeah, I think I think if you were to see this happen with wow You would see a lot of people right whether they're retail streamers or classic streamers or whatever Basically get screwed get dumped on in their section based on Like what big streamer is live, right? Having a big streamer live in your section in your directory will boost the entirety of the directory so like let's say if Asmongold or soda pop it or whoever is online in the wow section with 20k views this thing all of a sudden goes from 24.6 To 44.6 and it puts it knocks it up over here behind tft You see what I'm saying? So having a streamer like that is gonna boost the entire section now on the flip side of things, right? Let's say asman or soda are streaming retail one day or or whoever is streaming retail one day Then it's going to take the retail section and knock it up into there And then the classic section is going to be down in the dumps Right, and then it's going to hurt the discoverability of like all the classic streamers, right? If they're playing classic, it's gonna hurt the discoverability of all the retail streamers I think directory like like your your spot within the director is really really important, right? There's a lot of things that go into like view count and factors of Discoverability and stuff on Twitch, right? There's a lot of different factors that go into it For example, I started my stream about three and a half hours late today, right? So so the the regular audience of people that would watch my stream there. They're not going to be here, right? That's that's just normal. That's how it goes So yeah, just imagine if 20k new viewers tune into classic wow launch, but the directories are split Why don't classic wow are both going to be a bit varied versus combined. They'll be top six Yeah, and and I think that's that's kind of the case, right? I think whether you're a bigger streamer or smaller streamer that's gonna it's just better for you overall so Being the top of the directory is also very important But sometimes if there's a streamer that's so big in your section, especially if you have a section that's intriguing for example Or it's actually a good thing for the smaller streamer and for example, I was streaming outlast a few days ago You guys remember one of our streaming outlast Whenever I was doing the DLC and I was finishing it there was I like I actually I was surprised I went up a ton of follows, right? I went up a ton of follows and My viewership was way higher or whatever. I was like, oh, there's a new viewership coming in, right a Lot of the reason for that was because pokeman was also streaming outlast that day too. So Because she happened to be streaming it that day as well it boosted us like We were like, I don't know probably like 13 or 14 or some some way higher number than if I had been in the section alone, right? So we went essentially we went to here whenever we would have been The section would have been down here if it was just me. You see what I'm saying How can poke monster? Okay, relax unbelievable So yeah, when this comes to discover ability this like twitch sections It's not about like, oh, well, they're two different games and this and that it's it's about discover discoverability and Being good and healthy for the section in the game as far as streaming in the section the section go Yeah, so Also another thing to talk about is From from Blizzard standpoint from Blizzard standpoint like they're they're saying it's a shared sub. It's this and that There's going to be a lot of people that play both retail and classic right as far as the streamers go and you're going to see a lot more lot more volatility between the two sections if you end up separating the two sections right because of big streamers or whatever Massively shifting the viewership like for me. I'm 99% of the time. I'm gonna play read sorry classic. Wow, right? I don't play retail. Wow very much. That's that's just the nature of what I do and who I am If retail, I mean here's the thing that's not to say that I won't ever play retail Wow, but retail while in its current state is not particularly appealing to me right So yeah, it just kind of goes against the idea of the shared sub Blizzard very clearly they very clearly want people who are playing classic to play retail They want people who are playing retail to play classic and you can tell that by simply how accessible they've made the game, right? They they've they've made it to where you don't have to play classic, right? It's very accessible You don't have to buy BFA. You don't have to There's there's there you don't have to buy a box for classic You literally just you have an account you pay your 15 bucks a month and then you're good So the best-case scenario, right? I think the best-case scenario because you want to be this was supposed to be good for you know the streamers particularly smaller streamers, right like I Think I think for smaller streamers especially if you are If you're a smaller streamer in a section that's like if you're low in a section on a section That's low on the website. That's really really bad if you're a little bit lower on the section in a section that's higher on the website That makes your discoverability more because your section is getting clicked on better, right? to which to which needs and they have been to be honest twitch has done a good job of Getting better and better at like supporting small streamers and stuff like that And I think this is one of those things that would be good for them at the end of the day This is blizzard's decision But I think that it's good for blizzard too if you have all your views in one section and be able to push it like that What's up general mittens? How's it going man? So yeah, that's basically it Like what lupus day I said this is this is really it for streamers keep them together Consumers split them so I know who's playing retail and who's playing classic and I think this kind of goes back to what I what I was saying originally lupus is That's where the new filter system comes in on twitch. This is relatively new right like there needs to be like a classic filter Classical music nice, there needs to be like a classic filter. Let me see how I can do this So what they would do is on my stream Let me show you this So if I go here If I go here There's category world of warcraft audience everyone whatever tags search tags They have all kinds of tags that people don't really use right PvE PvP multiplayer use server leveling and game casual play through So I think what needs to happen is a lot of people don't use these because they're like new right, but they need to add a classic and a live class either classic and live or classic and Retail section right and what would have it live would probably make more sense than retail right just for like Technically right technically it's all retail But you would have two different tags that you can add and what that would do is for you lupus What that would do is you go up here and then you type in your filter And then if you don't want to see a retail stream or whatever Then you could just click on you just click on that and then it'll tag it out Both are live. Well, I mean like live like modern that's you would use live and modern interchangeably, right? So, yeah But literally everyone calls it retail. Yeah, I know I know but like that's that I mean it doesn't matter what they call it Okay, what I'm saying is that there needs to be something to call it, right? There needs to be something to call it To separate it from classic and retail and I think that would be the best of both worlds for both twitch For both twitch and blizzard actually because it makes wow look better, right? If there's more people in the section and also, it's best for the viewers because you can go within a section and Filter by subcategories. This is what this is what a lot of people were hoping that they would have done with the IRL section a long time ago and I just hope that I think from a streaming perspective this this does make a lot of sense because Like if you're a streamer like you understand like the power of directory and this and that like from a marketing perspective and all That a lot of people say like oh well, how come like blizzard doesn't seem to be pushing classic that much They don't seem to be advertising very much. I think twitch while not the bend all be all I do think twitch does kind of like Your game is Exposed to a certain part of the market, right? It's exposed to a certain audience is one of its being streamed heavily. So I think just wow looking good Whether it's retailer classic or whatever and they're being one wow section I personally think that that's that's really important. I think it's the most important thing So, how do you how do you guys feel about this? Yeah, we're all tank DVS healer filters. Yeah, I mean if they wanted to do that, right? But what I'm saying is you got to start somewhere, you know, so yeah, I think and for me like Just like I said kind of looking at it for Smaller streamers big streamers all this kind of stuff That is something that is I Think it's better for everybody. I think it's across the board better for everybody now Here's the thing this I think ultimately I believe this is blizzards decision. I Think this is ultimately blizzards decision and something to keep in mind is is Josh Allen is a streamer Lore is a streamer and I wonder And I would think that Again, like there's there's some some streamers who don't see it this way But I think most of the bigger streamers that I've talked to do see it this way Or at least not even just bigger streamers people have been streaming for a long time maybe See it this way as well kind of kind of share my opinion on this So I don't know I'm curious to see what they're gonna actually do. So yeah, a little Megalore. Yeah, of course Which I personally think from a user experience point of view It's more important that there's a distinction between retail and classic even though I completely take out since point Yeah, no, and that's the thing like you're looking at it from a user experience standpoint I totally agree. That's why I think these filters are important like they have to add a classic and retail filter Because some people are just not gonna watch classic They're gonna some people are just not gonna like classic Whatever some people are just not gonna like retail some people are gonna like both and they're never gonna use the filters They're just gonna look at whoever's in the section, right? But I think I think wow being up high on the section is it's better for everybody better for all the streamers I think people who want their because here's the thing you don't want to play a game that like people Oh dead game dead game lol You know what I mean I think I'm already sick and tired of hearing it like and and you don't like it's like oh classic was gonna die in a month This and that it's like dude come on like Obviously, there's going to be that big hype drop-off and we've talked about this before right? There's very clearly going to be the big hype drop-off, but to say that the game is gonna die and I hear this from like other streamers and stuff, right? I said the game is gonna die. It's kind of absurd, right? There's going to be a big massive percentage drop-off and viewership There's going to be some people that they hang around this and that and there's gonna be people that quit the game too However There's going to be a lot of people that play classic and love it either they've been waiting to play it again for years They're wanting to play it for the first time because they've heard so many great things about it for years and years and years Our main tank in rate three was a raft baby He like he was a rat like he had never played class before and he was not very good Whenever he started playing and he progressed and ended up getting like Significantly better week for week by week because he was he like he was a decent wild player, right? So like he just all you had to do is learn you just have to learn more and more and more and Eventually he ended up having to quit the game and stuff and because he had a bunch of real-life stuff going on but um, but yeah, that was just the case so Retail is still alive. Yeah, I mean like you're like here's the thing a lot of people like wow I was dead BFA is dead, right? But I mean it's still it's doing just fine, right? It's doing just fine on twitch, too That's that's something else to keep in mind What's real-life stuff, yeah, I know right Every game doesn't get 300 years is dead. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, give me a hug slash hug slash hug. Thanks. Sure cookies Will you kill me a mega of hundreds of members or just having one raid with 50 or so members So I think what I want to do with my classic raid is Read it realistically I think we're gonna have one main raid and then maybe one like social weekend run or something like that I will usually probably run with a main group, but occasionally I do want to run with the second group as well because I just think it would be fun to play with more people I Just think it would be fun to play with more people and I think if there's people in the guild that would like to Play with me and stuff as well We might we might swap people between the two runs like if we're trying to get a certain guy in the second Run a piece of gear that nobody needs in the first run or or vice versa, right? We might try and do some some weird stuff like that. So Am I gonna down van cleave on the stress test next week, I don't know so so the stress test is going to be next week August 8th, right stress test is gonna be next week August 8th and I Think at Thursday actually I think I want to try and just level and and I think that is the best Kind of practice run of what launch is gonna be like go level see what happens see how far I can get in whatever period of time With whoever my leveling partner is gonna be I got to get that nailed down Because I think what's if I'm gonna level in dungeons If I'm gonna level in dungeons, then I think you're gonna have to quest up to about 15 or 16 He's not killable 15. No, no, I think I think somebody killed him actually I'm pretty sure somebody killed him at level 15 on the last stress test. That's what I've heard so Yeah, basically I Want to go and I think I'm gonna have to be probably level 16 or something before we can start farming dungeons I think my streams if we're leveling in dungeons We're just gonna spam dungeons over and over and over again probably and then move on to the next dungeon and do that I think what's gonna happen with my streams is essentially going to be a It's kind of it's gonna kind of be like a radio show, right? At least for the leveling process so if we decided to do dungeon leveling because you're not questing out in the world and this and that Because we're trying to rush to 60 and we're trying to do it in a timing manner, but also Just just kind of keeping a whole group together in this and that yeah, yeah pod champ radio show Yeah, pretty much right because because I'll be in there I'll be in voice of the bunch of different people and it'll be fun. We'll be a good time now Here's the thing and here's my personal opinion on this. Okay, and I feel very strongly about this You don't have to rush to 60. Okay Like stop I see this this crap about like and it's it's non stop YouTube video. Oh, you have to play the game this way. Yeah. Oh, you just you don't you can't play that class You can't get in a raid if you do this you have to rush to 60 Chill the frick out like you don't have to play the game that way This is the beautiful thing about vanilla. Wow is if you want to play the game hardcore Beat your head against the wall non-stop You can do that if you want to play the game more casually and You want to level a little bit every day you want to explore the world you want to do all the quests this and that That is just fine too and that is why this game is so good It's because you can get a level of reward you can get a rewarding feeling out of playing the game either way Right and and these people these these people That go and they say this and that and like it's just it's just absolutely absurd Like when they're trying to like basically force you to think a certain way or play the game a certain way Like that's not fair, right? I think it's it's not true to the integrity of the game for one And also is just is just flat out disingenuous right like I think whenever you say you have to play this way You have to play that way it gets more it picks up more traction, right? Because it's a more bold statement But and nowadays people think you're making a more bold statement. That's more real But the reality of it is is that a lot of times it's not right like you're it's like a fake bold statement for the sake of Sure. Oh man, this guy said this that guy said that so like sure there's going to be a situation where if you're playing this class or that class or or this like race class combination or whatever then Then you're going to have maybe a little bit more difficulty maybe but it's not like you can't get in right There's gonna be a lot of people that don't care and I've already talked about the potential of the raids being a lot easier Come classic then they were in retail vanilla and they even that they would be on private server, right? I think it might just not matter. Okay, like I like I for example, I play a rep paladin, right? I know Dang well, okay I know well enough that a rep paladin does not compare to like a fury warrior a rogue or this or that right like a pure DPS class I I meme it up, right? And I joke around all this stuff about how like oh like oh ret number one And I and I do my whole thing and the green screen and this and that that's fun, right? That's that's the memes. That's that's just that's just part of it, right? but the reality of it is is like I Like to have fun when I'm playing the game and the the play style of playing a rep paladin is very very reward rewarding Right the play style playing a rep paladin is very very rewarding to me, right? And if you play really really hard if you give this level of effort You might get this level of output, but that level of output is still fun. It's rewarding, right? You get to do the raids and and this and that so I Think I think is that it's I think that it's just not gonna matter as much as people make it out to be and that these people are just being like Just elitist like I don't know what it blows my mind Like I mean, I've done all the content on the private server as a rep paladin Now here's the thing you have to find a group of people that are wanting to play the game the same way that you want to Play it, but if you find that then you can play the game the way that you want to play it That's that's that's what wow is all about Right Wow is all about Taking all the gear and the raid from the fury warriors because it's hilarious But But yeah, yeah, no the reality of it is right the reality of it is it's like you can you can play the game You if you want to play a boomkin or whatever find a guild that'll take a boomkin. That's fine You want to play a rep paladin do that I I've said before I don't particularly recommend people to play Rep paladins because I think that ret it takes a lot of effort and a lot of time to play it at a decent level right, but if you're willing to put in the time and effort and Find a group of people that are willing to play the game the same way that you want to play it then Feel free that is that is what wow is all about that is that exactly that's the hardest part lupus the hardest part is Finding a group of people that share the same vision that you do and once you can do that With the social dynamics and wow and this and that you were gonna be just fine There'll be zero rep paladins of my horde killed. Well, that's an outrage unbelievable Unbelievable, let me catch up on notifications Chemists thank you for the twitch prime two months under score just re-subbed for two months I've never played wow before should I give classical shot? Absolutely scrimps. Absolutely. Thank you for the two months Jevlett, thank you for the twitch prime scubs 15 just re-subbed for three months. Thank you for the three months Ranger Allender just re-subbed for 10 months. Hey, I just fan TV. I'm sure this has been asked But you think you're gonna play a lot of wc3 reforge also chat. Don't forget to smile. It's good for you smile smile Sorry, thank you for the host Puneo, thank you for the twitch prime There we go. We're all caught up. Very good Okay, um I've never played wow before but should I give classic a shot? That's what you were asking scrimps. So so here's the thing Mcpat, thank you for the twitch prime Here's the thing classic wow Is very very friendly to new users. It's very very new player friendly and it's because of how open-ended it is Uh, I think that whenever you log in to retail wow um It can be kind of daunting, right? There's a lot of things that it's like, oh go here. Go here And it's it's almost like you're on a conveyor belt and it's like go here. Go here. Go here. Go here And that's fine, right? But I think that retail wow And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong for feeling this way Uh, and maybe you guys can I mean agree or disagree with me but In retail wow, I kind of I kind of feel like it's almost information overload Like there's like too much stuff and because there's too much stuff It's like It's it's just Everything is everywhere, right? Whereas classic wow. It just feels very straightforward. I'm a new player. I'm new to mmo's There's a reason why there's a reason why Classic wow ended up doing so well in the mmo rpg market There were mmo's before wow But none of them blew up and were a cultural phenomenon like wow was right I think Sometimes less instruction And just let the kids play Is a better way to approach in a game and and it's it's almost easier to understand because players will go try and figure it out Is wow classic free to play? No marshal. It's not free to play, but um It's it's going to be a shared subscription with retail So, yeah, uh, it's it's uh, it's going to be a pretty good deal. Um Same thing happened to me. I'm a vanilla player and I quit after wrath Would you say your x mortis when I log back into bfa, there's just way too much stuff. Yeah, absolutely um Big mac attack my friends and I are starting a classic guild and we're committed to being the casual raider We're not requiring specific class race combos nor are we denying red pallies Uh, wow should be about having fun first, you know. Yeah, exactly exactly, dude Um, I mean it just depends like that's fun for you, right? And this is something I do want to touch on I I don't want there to be this whole notion coming from from what I'm saying I don't want it to be misinterpreted as Speed runs are stupid playing hardcore is stupid playing hardcore is not fun because here's the thing What's fun for you? might not be fun for somebody else and what's fun for somebody else might not be fun for you, right, so for example Big mac you like you want to play a little bit more casually, right? For you playing more casually and having more people in this and that that's more fun for you, right? For somebody who's a hardcore raider That might be boring like that might not be fun for them What's fun for them is competing and pushing for like trying to kill mc as fast as possible trying to run through the entire rate as fast as possible It's just different for everybody. You know, hi chat. Hi. What's everybody doing? That's been sir. If I understand correctly Uh, I have to subscribe to your channel to play classic wow. No, that's not that's not how it works. False Uh, yeah false false Um, so kind of back to what I was saying about wow being successful Whenever it first came out. Okay, whenever wow first came out and and part of the reason why it was so successful is Because of the same reason that a lot of people thought that wow was not going to be good People called wow the care bear game. That is that is Literally the the the term that was regularly thrown around. Wow is a care bear game That is just it. I remember everybody saying that now I don't think a game being particularly hard or particularly easy makes it better or worse, right? It's about uh, the systems in the game and how everything interacts with one another the the player psychology and so many different things So many different factors that go into it, right Everybody says oh well the grind and the difficulty of retail. Wow was so much more or sorry of classic Wow was so much more than retail, right? That's why it was good. Uh, yes and no, right? Yes and no, there were some parts of it that were better Right because of the grind in this and that um and to me I think vanilla wow overall was a better game than than what retail wow is right now but in a lot of ways retail wow is is Retail wow is actually better for different things But for me as a player and how I like to play the game what I like to do in in an mmo Classic is better Wow, vanilla wow came out and it was like easier than ever quest easier than dark age of camelot Oh, this game is not hardcore at all. This game is a joke This and that Wow takes off Wow explodes blows ever quest out of the water blows guild wars out of the water blows Dark age you can't want out of the water Nobody comes close right so I don't think it's just about a game being difficult I think it has to do with systems and how players react to it and and what all it means, right Want to die loads while leveling do it solo as a rogue? Yeah Well, here's the thing dude in dark age of camelot whenever you died you lost xp I think that was a regular thing, right? Like that was like a pretty normal thing to come to expect in in video games in mmo rpgs And whenever wow came out and said you don't lose xp when you die everyone's like What a joke what oh this game is for babies. Oh, this is so dumb like why would you do that? And now if you lose xp or anything whenever you die It's like what what this game is a nightmare. That's so incredibly hardcore It's just kind of funny to think about right. It's kind of funny to think about how things change Let me let me take a look at notifications here real quick Hey, what's up, dude? Um notifications are going off go Kane thank you for the twitch prime Odip jake thank you the prime three months red mills thank you for the twitch prime puppy fists thank you for the tier two two months Plubby fists became the tier two less fan. Thanks for reviewing my guild app and sending me an invite. That's not true I'm not done with that yet. Conjulate towards yourself for 13 months. What's up, dude? My sub is a teenager now Sounds like a nightmare. Thank you can go to her. Thanks for 13 months dying reload. Thank you for the twitch prime Dr. Psycho. Thank you for the twitch prime Thank you guys so much, man. Dude as one. What's up, dude? Yeah, not much just chilling. I uh Got a little bit of time. So I figured I'd hop in and just chill for a bit. Yeah, I do I'm doing my daily dose of classic. So we're just kind of talking about classic stuff before I go I'm actually going to play retail today. Believe it or not. Oh, yeah, uh, awesome. Yeah, what are you going to do? I'm probably going to jump around berales for about 30 minutes Or quick pets or complain the game's boring. I think I'm going to I'm going to jump around berales and complain The game is boring. Okay. Yeah, dude. Don't worry. I do that every day. Yeah, it's gonna be pretty easy The best thing is you get like you watch a video of somebody else complaining to games boring While you complain it is and that way you don't even have to do anything. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, you actually don't have to do Shit, it's great. I did that for like what four months is crazy. Yeah, it's awesome You only have to do it for three more weeks. It'll be great just three more weeks I'll be I'll be completely fucking good by then. But yeah, dude, uh, what's what's happened in classic so far So you've got the stress test that's on the eighth, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, we've got stress tests on the eighth and then, um After that it's it's name registration on the 13th. Well, it's gonna be it's gonna be 12th for us So we gotta we gotta talk about that and kind of get that figured out like I know for me because I want to have my guild figured out like I have a lot of stuff to do this weekend but Even for the stress test we we got to talk about that because I kind of want this stress test. I want to play this rest test kind of like, okay This is how it's going to go on launch. So I don't know if you're gonna love probably I don't really know what I'm gonna do. I'd kind of like to just play for a while and just kind of get into it I mean, I think that we've all done There's not really a whole lot of like viewer activities for me to do. I mean like yeah, maybe we go kill on like some like mob or something like that, but Yeah, well, I think I think I want to do a little bit more than that I think playing the game is going to be almost almost too important You know what I mean? Yeah, because because just to get like a real like Okay This is the experience that we're going to get on launch. This is how it's going to be There's going to be this many people playing trying to get tags and I think what probably makes the most sense if we end up doing dungeon leveling together or something like that Yeah Maybe you and mcconnell will go and level as a duo and then I will get a warrior to level with as a duo and I don't know if sequisha is still interested in playing in in my guild But if he is I would do it with sequisha If yeah, that'd be big. Yeah, and then what we could do is we have two paladins two warriors and then we'd have to have a healer so I think what we would do is we would get like a priest maybe like a dwarf priest with a dwarf hunter And they level together right I think honestly like there's going to be enough people leveling to where like If we're just leveling together and like not like me you mcconnell and like one other person We're going to have somebody else that just kind of shows up That's like just questing solo like maybe a hunter or warlock that's pretty close to our level That even like let's say Let's say we end up doing deadlines that uh 2022 or something like that, which is like not not ideal But I mean it's still probably a good use of time especially in terms of like engaging the audience, etc There's going to be somebody at that point who's level 18 Right. I mean obviously like even if we are the fastest people in the world There's still going to be somebody who's at that point. So I don't think it's going to be an issue Right, but what I'm concerned about is having people on the same schedule To try and rush to 60, right? It's not really going to matter because like everybody's going to be playing 16 hours a day I mean there's going to be I mean you think about that, right? I mean there's going to be like a 12 hour overlap No matter how you Cut it right, but I think that if you have a leveling group, I think the leveling group just stick together as much as possible Oh, yeah No, like McConnell and I will probably start and and basically at the same time That seems like kind of the smartest thing to do and then like we can always converge to do group quests that You know the two of us maybe can't do or the two of you guys maybe can't do and you know We just kind of knock something out like that. I mean that's kind of the way that I've been looking at it Mm-hmm Yeah, I think I think we definitely got to like sit down and like plan it out off I don't I'm not really that worried about it. I mean like the truth is that we're going to get up to 60 really fast I mean The only reason we didn't get to 40 or 30 really fast is we took a lot of breaks like You know and this is going to be the we played a lot the first day Yeah, we played a lot the first day and then after that we kind of We kind of well even then like well we focused on doing like we didn't really have a very strong Leveling path or whatever, but I think that like that the biggest weakness though Like I know we had was just a lack of preparation And uh, whenever we were basically on the same page as everybody else in terms of like what quests we had to do and everything Uh, we were out leveling everyone Like there was basically nobody who was ahead of us So I mean they also not worried about it all Well, they also played more like we played a lot the first day in the second day. We didn't play as much Yeah, like we spent a lot of time Yeah So I don't really worry about it. Honestly. I think that like I think people are over over preparing personally. I mean, I think it's it's going to be fine Yeah, I think going there we get it done. I mean, this is like It's like preparing for like a new expansion for me Because like every new expansion like we obviously go from realm first on the uh, you know on the server and everything And like we try to get like we like my goal is always to be like the first streamer who's like non Like who's not like trying like trying to get level levels, whatever Like world first, right? Like, you know, like Genji and them go for like world first like we're not going for world first But we're just going to do it basically as fast as we can And I just plan on beating all the other people who take it on that level And we have every single time. Yeah, but I think like this is for at least for me from my perspective Um Like I haven't played on an expansion launch the way that you have right I haven't streamed expansion launch the way you have right. Yeah. Um so so for me I I want to rush a 60 for the sake of like just trying to get ahead of the pack and and do all this stuff I don't think i'm going to get to 60 Like super super fast. I could be wrong like i'm expecting it to take around like eight real life days Right within like a day like that But all I want to do is kill Ragnaros on the second week I don't really care what else has to happen. Like if I get to 60 on day six Uh, or day nine It makes no difference to me Uh, as long as i'm getting Ragnaros down on week two Uh, I think that'll be a real big challenge because you know, I haven't really prepared my guild in the same way that you have Yeah, and for me like I will for me for my guild. I like yeah, I think we're not planning on I at least as of right now. I'm not planning on wanting to have an official guild run until week three Really? Yeah, uh, what makes you want to make it take so long? I'm just I'm just not planning on it Like I mean if it if it happens that we're like, hey, we're ready to go week two Like you have a week to level and then a week to kind of get get your gear and stuff And then then the the third week do all that now it could be wrong And we we're just like way ahead and we're like, okay, let's just go but I uh I don't I just don't foresee that happening right like I don't uh I don't I don't want to get too ahead of myself right because my guilds are going to be like particularly hardcore Uh, but it's gonna get me a lot of precious stuff like There's only going to be like so many people that are there on week two So like let's say we do this on monday of week two I'm just going to invite anybody that I can Like I mean if they're 60 and they know what they're doing We're going to take a 40 man in the molten core like what we kill Ragnaros probably yeah But I mean it doesn't matter like we're going to go in there with how whatever 40 people we have Yeah, like that's only done before on like expansion launches Whenever we weren't able to fill a raid for like the new raid or anything We just bring in some random pug that and usually they're going to be really good because they played the game non-stop Yeah, I don't know that's the thing. I just I just don't know how to approach it exactly I just don't want to I don't want to set the bar at this level And then happen to like not reach it and it's like, okay now what right? I just I just want to go and push it as hard as I can and then whatever happens It's like, okay. Well, we can we can okay We can push the bar up if we need to or I guess I guess, you know, we can go ahead of schedule That's the way that I'm looking at it Because I mean like that that's awesome and it kind of goes without saying you know is that You know if we don't make that timer and and it takes us until week three or even week four to kill rag Then it is what it is right. I mean who cares I mean like I just I want to get it done as fast as possible Yeah, I mean and I think that's the thing so so here's what we're talking about today earlier And this is kind of off topic right of what I was talking about earlier today The the main thing I wanted to talk about was Basically like the twitch directory, right? Looking at looking at the warcraft twitch directory And the fly in my room. What the heck? Um, okay So Oh, what's up, Zach? How's it going dude? It's a Mickle revie. Um, you know what I'll do We're gonna take boss later on. Okay. Nice. Um So What I think and a lot of people compare wild classic and retail to like osrs and rinscape And I was kind of talking about how I think they should only have one section Because I think having all of your views under one section Is a lot more it's better for the game overall, right? At least as far as twitch directors go because it pushes the directory up higher and also if you have one really big stream For example, if if you're streaming a retail one day Then it it'll tank the other section, right? Or if you're streaming classic one day, it'll tank retail Right, so just just by comparison because if you're like, let's say you're streaming every day And there's also always going to be like this thing where like imagine if classic wow three months then You know a new raid comes out in retail and you know, everybody's playing that and you know This is like the world first race. I'm streaming retail Everybody's streaming yet in classic has like four thousand viewers or something or you know, six thousand viewers Who knows right on the directory right just like a random number But it has substantially less like that's going to immediately be like everybody's right. I fucking knew it this game is dead Jay on black was right You do and you fucking don't bitch Yeah, it's just like come on man like and so I think that really the whole thing is that That success for classic is success for like both of these games are called world of warcraft Yeah, like that. That's what it is. It's wow and and here's the thing Blizzard is obviously trying to push this thing is like it's one mmo Now obviously we know that it's two different games, right? We obviously know that it's two different games, but They're trying to say okay. It's a shared sub. It's this they obviously want people who play classic to play retail They obviously want people who play retail to play classic They want there to be crossover it's best for everybody if people play both right or at least tribal because It's a value add to the service that they're paying for Exactly So of course they want to incur and if you just take it on like just such an abstract bubble of like You know like content offerings from a subscription If you were you know adding another service to that subscription like let's say netflix adds a video game service They will probably say hey, please try out our video game service too Because they want people to stay invested and stay subscribing to their product like I mean this is just like This is so common sense. I don't even know what to say So yeah, I mean obviously this is going to happen like I I'm I'm really excited to see what the numbers are even going to be because I can see definitely like, you know, it's going to ebb and flow where like if a new thing comes out for classic for example We're going to have you know, everybody wanting to play classic and then After that's over then everybody's going to want to play bfa or something like that So I think that it's just going to be one of those instances Yeah, I think that uh, I think that even for like whenever you're looking at big streams versus smaller streams I think that it's going to help even smaller streamers by being in Like if you're let's say you're at Whatever whatever random number like just 500 views like that's just the number we use right? Let's say you're at 500 views in a section That's way like I have to scroll six times to get to the bottom of twitch To get to Versus being at 500 views in a section that it's literally right there on the front page You're going to have naturally more discoverability. Exactly Anybody who wants the section separated doesn't really understand the way that uh, you know discoverability occurs on twitch I I understand like a lot of people might not really Like retail, right? They're not a fan of the game or or you know, or classic vice versa, right? They don't want classic players to be involved in retail because they just feel like Uh, you know classic players are toxic or something like that. Um, you know that that's fine, but It's not really about it. It's like it's not about you. It's about the game as a whole. I think there's a lot of Really like selfish people out there that They almost like want the other game to fail. It's so done. It was I think it's a very vocal. It's a very vocal minority Yeah, it's it's a it's a very vocal minority and it's retail people and it's classic people and it's it's really really cancerous It's it's not good. It's just like it's It's not good for anybody right because what happens is it like it just increases animosity between the people who like this And the people who like that That is all really I just don't really understand it because like to me it seems like I don't know. It's like kind of like imagine you're part of like a school or something like that and Like you know, you're cheering for the school's basketball team and somebody else is cheering for the school's like football team And you're happy when one of the other ones loses Like it's it's dumb such a weird perspective to have I I think that it's gonna be great for for both of them yeah, I think that uh Well, you also kind of have this thing right and and obviously I I'm not the biggest fan of retail. Wow, right in general Yeah, but I've never wanted wow to die I've never I've never wanted retail to crash and burn and be terrible right like sometimes a meme And this is this is a whole another problem right like when it comes to like Meming and speaking in hyperbole and people not understanding whenever you're joking or or anything like that Versus like what you actually mean by it, right? Yeah, that's that's another huge. That's a huge problem. It's not as bad on twitch. I think as it is on youtube For some reason. I don't I don't know why but um Either either way it's uh it is one of those things where it's like, okay I want retail wow To be good the reason why I I'm critical of it or the reason why like I complain about this or complain about that Isn't because I hate the game It's because I love wow. Wow is a huge part of who I am Wow is a huge part of the the person that I've become growing up like I Relate to wow on a very personal level right like I joke about paladin in game paladin in real life But like that's like what it is right? That's that's just how I am um and to see other people Kind of try and like and again, it's a very vocal minority try and tear down the other game retail people tear down classic classic people Try and tear down retail It's it's not It's not good. It's not healthy I I don't think that it makes the game better Mm-hmm. I think that they're they're very naive for doing that because uh when they end up doing that they're going to Just alienate more and more people and it just creates this weird As I said this like weird I don't know. I don't even know what it is like I don't know like they're like what that's it It puts people against each other that shouldn't be against each other basically. I mean Uh, you know, there's no no reason to like create a metaphor. I mean It's very simple what's going on. Mm-hmm I just hope that blizzard doesn't like I don't think they're gonna cave to that kind of stuff anyway It's just not even gonna happen so It would be stupid for them to make it two sections because it would hurt the section that's not on top And then there's also like, I mean, why did they stop showing sub numbers? Like let's be honest guys I mean they stopped showing sub numbers because as soon as they had announced like a one million subscriber loss There were a lot of people that saw that and then they unsubscribed because they thought the game was dying Well, yeah, nobody wants to play that game. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Mm-hmm. So it's terrible I mean like that that's not what they want to have happened. So If the if it shows wow if having classic out and they're like dedicated classic players and classic has like its own unique audience Then you're gonna be adding like basically a 10,000 or 15,000. Hopefully uh viewbot To to bfa and it's like how is that bad? Yeah, and not not literally a viewbot just for the sake of people understanding What you're saying it's it's yeah, yeah, just just having the section numbers Yeah, it boosts the section because it's one section and yeah, that's kind of what I was talking about earlier Like nobody wants to play a dead game. I talked about this before he came in So nobody wants to play a dead game But if you have like big streamers all playing one version of the other version and I think I think you're naturally going to have more like if you compare this to osrs and Rinscape Uh, I think that you naturally have A a more of a crossover in wow than you will with Rinscape Because I think there's a lot of people at least from what I've heard Who play osrs or play like the new Rinscape? And they don't even touch or talk about or whatever like they it's just 200 separate things I think with the streamers that are in the wow section. There's a few That focus on one game, right? Like for example myself with classic or jb with retail, right? Yeah But then there's a lot of other guys like you who will do both Um Venruki will do both Swiftie will probably I think Swiftie is probably going to focus on classic, right? Most of these arena guys are probably going to do both I mean, I think that a lot of them are going to play both like Swiftie Well, I think that everybody who's like in the wow section Organically, right? I mean, they're they're already streaming wow every day. They're like wow people. Yeah Yeah, like me for example. I mean we are gonna We're going to go back and forth. We're going to sometimes play retail and Sometimes play play classic. I mean, it just depends on what's out and what's going on I mean, that's just kind of what makes sense. I mean, why would you you know, like label yourself one thing and then just kind of Constrain like what type of content you want to bring to an audience if you feel like classic Wow is going to bring in Good content for whatever reason for that day. Then I think you should do that Yeah, I mean, I think that's what it is like for me like I'm not I'm not completely like I'm not completely done with retail whenever class comes down. I tell people that just like it depends on what's going on Like I might randomly want to do arena. You're probably gonna want to do like, you know, maybe an arena push or You know, you find like some guys that want to push arena and get clad and you've never got glad before So it's like fuck dude. All right. Let's let's let's try to make this happen Well, it's one of those things that's hyped as fuck dude. That's awesome. Well, and it's it's one of those things where Just because wow is bad now, right? Or just because I think wow is bad now retail doesn't mean that retail wow is always going to be bad Right something something might happen and they might say like hey look like let's look at this thing from classic, right? People obviously like this or they obviously like that That we're seeing classic. What if we can take this and kind of move the kind of kind of move the goalposts a little bit and try and change retail wow in a way that It implements this certain system or whatever that makes it better. Of course. I mean, that's what everybody wants I mean, I think that like This might be an unpopular opinion among like people that are, you know, really big classic fans but what I think a lot of people want More than more than classic wow is they want a game that makes them feel the same way the classic wow made them feel in 2006 and Like classic wow again is going to make them feel that way for a while, but it's not going to be the same thing It's like I don't know like going to high school like you can't just go to high school again And have the same experience as you did the first time like there's nothing like the first time And I think people want the new classic wow. Yeah, I wouldn't know. I've never had a first time Well, I mean, I think that we've both been to high school You know and that's why I use that example because like everybody's been to high school. Everybody knows what it's like You know like kind of getting in there making your friends, you know understanding and being part of it In a way, I think high school and wow like classic wow have a lot of parallels But um in general like Or like getting your first job or anything that's like your first of anything you you can't you can't re-experience that again right so I The thing that I want to do really is I just want to have I want retail to be as good as As classic should be Or sorry, I want I want retail to be as good as it should be right I want to be as good as classic is because I don't think that it's dead. I think like for example like 8.2 Is really good in a lot of ways Uh, it's it's not amazing. It doesn't save the game. Wow is not saved but um They made a lot of really good changes and they took chances and they did things that players want and that's good And I think that classic is going to drive a lot of those changes because They're going to see the people that really enjoy classic and say hey, you know if they really like it this much Let's see how they'd like this in retail And you know, they can use one to inform the development of the other Yeah, I think so too. And I think I think that'd be great. I mean if if If you can have both games be as good as they can be and that's great and I have like a lot of other thoughts on like, um I have a lot of other thoughts on on basically like how the game is going to be different And I talked about that before and like I actually have like a concern I like a pretty big concern about like great difficulty in this and that I think it's going to be Well, there's this whole narrative of like, oh like classic is a joke. No mechanics this and that right and and obviously Classic is not as mechanically intense as as retail. Wow is right like it's it's very clear um but I think that it's going to only push that narrative and It's going to be even worse because of how you're going to have the 1.12 versions Of everything you're going to have the 1.12 versions of the raids 1.12 versions of uh itemization Class balance all this stuff put into the game And then you're going to have Like 1.2 content like the 1.12 version of the 1.2 content on launch, right? so everything's going to be nerfed so I do think classic is going to be like inherently easier not just because I don't think it's fair to factor in like real like like Like you said your life was different 15 years ago. Everything was different, right? You were a different person different player all this stuff I don't think it's fair to factor that into this right but as far as like game design stuff It's it is just going to be easier. I think and I and I That's what I'm kind of concerned about right now. That's just something that's been on my mind for for Actually a lot recently Well, I mean like I think that the raids are going to be substantially mechanically easier. I think that Any guild that's in the top 1,000 guilds right now on retail is going to have Literally no trouble clearing the classic raids Well, and I kind of think that goes without saying like to me like it that part of it is almost like a It's almost like a moot point Yeah, like it's it's not that big because because retail wow is is mechanically much harder than well I don't really think it's a narrative then right? I mean if if it's kind of something that's Understood well no because I think the difficulty of the raids from like a Not not a non mechanical but more so Armor values are less or health or like damage resist that kind of stuff like from a preparation standpoint I think people are going to have a hard time telling the difference between Something that is harder because the amount of preparation it takes or harder because it's mechanically more difficult Because at the end of the day the average definitely well, I've I've kind of characterized it like this I don't know how you feel about this, but I've characterized it as the difficulty in like old wow, so like Like really just vanilla and bc because in in wrath I don't think this really factored in but in vanilla and bc like the difficulty of the raids was getting into the raids And now the difficulty of the raids is doing the raids like anybody can get into the raids now But it's very hard to do them and before It was very very hard to get into the raids, but once you got into the raids They weren't necessarily like extremely challenging So like for example, I mean, I don't think anybody could make an argument that you know Mythic killed jaden isn't harder than anything in classic It's it was like nothing in classic is even 10% as difficult as as mythic kill jaden was But that doesn't mean that you know doing Aq 40 cthune or next ramos wasn't challenging It's just it was a different kind of challenge and I think that's what a lot of people Well, I think I think picked up on well. I think game knowledge preparation Uh from like a leadership perspective just like the organizational factor of it I think a lot of that makes it hard. Yeah Um But I also think this I think if if everything is as easy as everybody thinks it is There would have been a whole lot more people who cleared naks on private servers, which wasn't the case Why was that not the case though? Because guilds would fall apart. They would die. They like there's guilds that just couldn't even do naks I mean it's it's not I mean don't you think that it's like probably a better reason that They just simply most private servers never made it to naks. I mean Well, that's that's that's part of it Right, that's part of it But I'm saying even the servers that didn't make it to naks, right Not everybody who played on a private server lasted the whole way through Right, I think that part of playing classic is like you you've got to be able to to Consistently like work your way through the entirety of the content. Again, it's I'm not talking about mechanics and stuff, right? I'm talking more so about there's a number of other factors that you have to overcome Whenever you you're playing classic outside of just like okay move out of the fire, you know Uh, I mean, I think that's definitely true In a lot of ways. I think that it is In some cases like yeah, of course that you know, there's gonna be a certain degree of I guess a power creep that players are going to have Now that they've been playing the game for you know, this long and there's better at the game But also I I think it's kind of it's it's a pointless conversation and in my mind to have Whether like which one is harder and which one is easier Because it's I think that the entire idea of are you talking about retail and classic Both of them. I think the entire idea No, no, no, are you are you saying are you saying which one is harder and which one is easier within the context of Retail versus classic or within the context of one game on its own? Well, it doesn't matter. I mean like both like it's like I think that the the discussion and I think it any reasonable person would come to the conclusion that It takes more prep to get into classic grades and it's more mechanically difficult to do current rates, right? I mean, this is not This is not An unpopular or like a nuanced really opinion. This is just a common sense from anybody that's played either one of the games Right. Uh, yeah What I don't like is that the whole idea that oh, well the raids are better now because they're harder I actually think that the raids are worse now. I think that they're too hard I genuinely think the raids are too hard Uh, there are too many things you have to react to too quickly and it's off-putting for a lot of players I think that's why cataclysm lost so many players is because Icc was so easy Then you go into bwd and you're just getting fucking destroyed by omicron defense system because you're not even close to prepared And I think that demoralized a lot of people and made them stop playing Yeah, and I and I don't really know about this because I didn't raid after Like close to the end of bc because I didn't do Sunwell and I didn't do uh I didn't finish Black Temple But yeah, I did basically like tier five and burning crusade and like a little bit of Black Temple So so yeah after that I really haven't raided so so I don't really know Yeah, I mean for uh for bfa and and everything like The raids are extremely challenging on nithic. I think really the problem is that The challenge in raids Is like I think being able to be prepared and bringing in a bunch of like flasks and like really cool food buffs and stuff like that and I think that setting the difficulty of the raids to be I guess like loaded like front loaded in getting into the raid Is actually a more fulfilling experience for people and also more casual friendly because more of them are able to Play on on their own terms. It's like if I wanted to get attuned for um Let's say next ramas. I could get attuned for next ramas on my own time I could do a strathlum whenever I wanted. I could buy the righteous orbs whenever I wanted I could farm out arch and reputation whenever I wanted so I think that overall like just the perspective that buzzers had and like the idea that players have that harder raids are fundamentally better Is really flawed. Yeah, I think that it's harmful to the game Well, wow, wow, and I talked about this a little bit earlier before you came on Wow was successful Because it was not the hardest game in the world. There was way harder in the most ever quest was known to be harder Darker jacamel was considered to be harder, right? Wow, wow was successful because it was accessible to players But you still got the right level of fulfillment out of it difficulty Right difficulty is is good To a certain extent right now. I don't know because I haven't mythic rated and stuff like that So I don't really know how uh like about the raids being too hard or anything like that now, right? Well, the issue the issue now like I think like like fundamentally like if you want me to like kind of Distill it down to like one thing It's that one individual in a raid can cause a wipe And I think that creates a very unfulfilling stressful experience for everyone else In classic wow like that was the case in some fights, right? Like let's say you had like one guy go to the wrong place and Thaddeus and That's probably not really going to be a raid wipe Because that person's just going to get electrocuted and instantly But if that happens and Thaddeus is chain lightning at the same time You're probably going to have a death or at least a few of them and uh Like there are a few other examples of that, but for the most part in classic wow Everybody doesn't all have to do it right Like you can have people do it wrong Yeah, I I don't like how in retail wow It does feel like that where it's like all of a sudden it's like Because whenever I'm watching the world first race, right for example Yeah, you're watching and it's like okay happening happening happening happening And then all of a sudden something happened now you watch so many times where you kind of get used to okay Well, this is what happened here, right? But you're watching And then all of a sudden out of the blue it's like tick tick tick boom whole raid's dead and it's like wait what like what happened Yeah, but I mean that's I haven't played it like I said, but at least from a viewing experience It's kind of like wait what the hell like what what happened? I think that you can have that happen in in classic too Right, I mean, but it's definitely true like if you get like a living bomb or something on on your bearing A living bomb and raid. Um, let's talk knacks a taunt fail. Let's say, you know Fucking like mow grain or like one of the different four horsemen runs into the middle of the room One shots half the raid because they're trying to reset their stacks. Yeah Or chop is odd the mcs go out and you know or or let's say somebody's not doing triangle formation correctly And you know, there's some rogue that's in between the tank group and the melee group and he gets targeted and freezes everybody And it's a white. Uh, there's a lot of different ways that wipes can happen instantly in classic And it's like in the rogues example, uh, that actually is like one individual making a mistake But the difference between that and classic usually, uh, or bfa usually is that The kelt is odd ice block situation is very, uh It's very uncommon where like one player can cause a wipe And also even in classic whenever you do have instances whenever one player can cause a wipe You can usually determine who that player is at a time. That's that's the point I was going to hit on next was you can see it play out Like you you can see the series of events that led to something happening like let's say Let's use the four horsemen example, right? Where okay Some tank he didn't like resisted taunt something happened Somehow or another you see the horse Run all the way to the center of the room and then all of a sudden everybody stacks gets reset whenever they're supposed to Be in another part of the room, right? And then all of a sudden it's visually obvious You can tell what's happening. You can see it play out And to me it's like, okay, that's cool, right? But like whenever I was watching retail like again, this this goes back to what I was saying about viewing viewing perspective Whenever I was watching the world first race and all of a sudden it's just boom. Everyone's dead. I'm like, okay I can't see what happened there until somebody explained it to me, you know Well, I think the best example, right is like my dad is watching me play wow for 10 years And he still thinks that I'm being surrounded by stingrays whenever I'm next to a rock You know, he has is solstice on a player. That was one of his questions. He asked me he has no idea how well works Yeah, he has no clue whatsoever. Yeah That being said also like he doesn't really uh Like whenever he watched me play pub g literally the first game he was in vietnam The first game he was telling me where I need to stand He's he already knows what's going on, right? And it's like there are some games that just lend themselves better to being understood And by like a spectator and I think that you're right that wow like the current wow is just I mean you You have no idea what the fuck is going on Classic is do a it's done. It's not happening after two months. It's dead. I guarantee it. I promise you This shit is destined to fail. I don't even know why they fucking did it in the first place These guys are a bunch of fucking idiots I I think that as I said, I think that the the drop-off will be Between 16 80 percent by the second month I think by the second month that it's it's not crazy for it to be that much, right? I think I think by the end of the first month. I'm I'm not sure Um, but I think I think yeah, like of course you're gonna have a you're gonna have a big drop-off, right? But you're also going to have plenty of people to the point where like the game is healthy and alive and and all that stuff like I mean you look at I mean pretty much every expansion and anything like that As far as like looking at trends goes You have people resubbing all this stuff and then you have the big drop-off anything with hype is going to be like that Anything I wouldn't say that the game is necessarily going to be dead or anything like that Like you're going to have You're going to be just fine playing it and having fun and all this stuff and even from a streaming perspective like I think most people that that Think like that or a lot of people that think like that are like, oh, they're streaming and they just want to They're gonna move on to the next game or this and that but like At the end of the day like the wow like wow, this is the iRL section. It's it's basically just chatting Wow is glorified just chatting section. That's just what it is. It's basically what we're doing now Like we're like that's literally what what the hell am I it's like yes and no I mean, I think that it's really important that you know people have interesting content I think that like yes, obviously like being able to You know like interact with the audience is the most important thing But there is a big difference like you know that I that I see whenever I'm doing content That's interesting to my viewers versus not interesting. I mean, it's a huge difference Right, but I mean like if people who want to see the gameplay will like there's there's always going to be people Who just want to see gameplay, right? But there's also what I mean is like there's different like all gameplay is not created equal Right. Like yes, there's the thing is that like for example, if I Like variety I think in in like streaming is probably the most important thing That you have to do and having like variety in your content. So for example, like, you know, if you're streaming and you have What do you call it? Like we think a way to put it Like if you do the same thing every day on your stream people are going to get bored of it That's why I try to change up my My formula as regularly as I can Obviously, like, you know, there's going to be continuous things that I do but for the most part I mean, I try to like, okay, I've been starting in this zone and doing these quests every single time Maybe people are tired of that. Maybe I want to go do something else instead so uh, you know, I think it's really important to keep that in mind too and it's also like Two weeks two months from my classic release Everybody will have already seen Everything that there is to see until the new season or the new new patch comes out So I just had two months or two weeks Two months I'd say actually more like one month because well, here's the thing. There's gonna be there's so much to like attain That's the thing like I remember one of her again This is one of our streams on youtube and it's it was a different audience It was vastly different numbers of people watching but Part of the reason my stream kept growing and this is something that I noticed and because people told me this People enjoyed watching my character and see like the story of my character progress Uh, like okay s-fand is rating and he's getting this gear now. Oh, I can't wait till s-fand gets this I can't wait till s-fand gets that that's that's good But the problem is that you can only tell that story for a few hours a week um kind of with raids but um There's also a lot more to it and you like you use that gear right you use that stuff And then you turn that into something else. All right, like you you you turn that into like pvp content and gameplay content So like because like for example, like I was I was more of a gameplay streamer than anything back Yeah on youtube But now like in you're in a half on twitch before a classic came out like I had to do Other games and variety and all this stuff. So my stream changed a little bit Well, I think that just in general it's really important to make sure that people can uh, you know I expect to see different types of content. Mm-hmm. And uh, I don't think that like farming streams or entertaining or interesting to viewers I think that they won't be interesting at all. Yeah, I mean, I don't know It's like at least here's the thing as far as like again, totally different audience different all this stuff, right? but Some of my best streams before were like DME's jump runs Well, yes, and there's a lot of context to that though Uh for one like people Weren't really able to do that on their own, right? So like they're going to watch you to vicariously do that type of content whenever they can do it on their own Watching somebody do the same thing over and over that they've probably done themselves also There is a certain level of Disinterest that happens to there, uh, then on top of that you have a lot of other people who are You know, they just they're very 80d And I think that also like for example People would criticize me right on like my stream whenever I would spend every stream doing let's say Uh throne of thunder I think that was probably the best example that I can use And it's like watching me do throne of thunder every once in a while is cool But watching me open the stream with it every day is not and The thing with retail Wow, like the problem that I had was that I kind of ran out of things because I just did everything in the game I streamed the game like four or five hours like, you know five days a week or something so I simply ran out of content and You know, that's why like now I have a lot of things to do because I took a break so long for like actually completing in game content So I I don't think that like farming that content or doing it on youtube Is a very good indicator because also there's not any other competition on youtube really You know people that want to watch classic wow Or even content on youtube Because they don't like twitch or whatever the reason is There's not a lot of other places that they can go to To do that, but whenever everybody's able to be out there doing the same content You have you have a higher level of competition and you have to be more more engaging but something that like I think something that you're not considering is is the majority of my audience back then were also other people who put on private servers So it's like they they all had the opportunity to do that You know, uh, that's that was just like the majority of my audience There was there was a few people who watched it and play private servers shortly, right? Well, what I'm saying is like you're always like there's like different Uh, I guess like circles of influence that you're gonna have right? You're gonna have people that want to watch a high warlord grind But there are less people that want to watch a high warlord grind than people that Want to watch you do the new raid whenever it comes out. Oh, yeah, I'll certainly all I'm saying is that I think that there are a lot less people than you might imagine That just want to watch you do kind of like What's like really the word? Like be footage basically Well, like I try not to like for example, like I would try to farm things off stream and then Save the on stream content for me like opening up the boxes of those things that I farmed or something like that To keep the excitement up, you know and make it more exciting for the the viewers Yeah, oh, I think and I think that's fine. I think that's like when we look at it I think it's also about how you want to present that content, right? Like and it's also your audience too different audiences like take take a look at like destiny streams, for example Like most people who watch destiny like destiny will play like some some dumb random like mindless grinding game in the background While he's like listening to a video and like giving commentary on it, right? And that's why people are there watching, right? I think whenever Like use the use the rank 14 grind for example. I think a good rank 14 grind stream You're gonna have some gameplay. Oh, look. Oh, okay. He's good. He knows what he's doing. Whatever is pvp Okay, great. Like you can do that for some time, right? You can do battlegrounds for a few hours or something And then it'll fall off, right? That's why I think it's important like if you're going to stream rank 14 grind Like your stream has to be kind of like a radio show Like you you have to have like personalities in there You have to have topics that you're going to talk about that keeps people engaging and Good interaction. Like it just has to be different, right? It just comes down to like the presentation Like whenever like me Spoogee and Dracobo would do the old farming streams Like we would just like it was basically like three friends sitting there just bs-ing talking about stuff having conversations with chat Like we would talk about paladin things like paladin tips or like we pull something up and explain it this and that People like I think people really enjoy that type of content too and the farming is just like the background noise And they're there for like the information on like, oh, how should I play paladin here? I should do a paladin there so like I just think it's different like of course like like having Having like really interesting. I guess like conversations and everything I think that's what I've really always tried to build my stream on and make it interesting like You know, I've always looked at the game itself is just b-roll like yeah, you're right, but You know like if you have you know Great commentary and your content is a roll Then, you know, you're going to be having a really good time But like but how often can you do that? Like how how often is a new raid going to come out? How often is You know, I think comes out a presentation like my stream here's an example, right? Whenever we were doing classic wow the beta Like whenever we were first doing worse on gulch We had a lot of people watching Whenever we We're doing it for like two or three weeks We had a lot less people watching because people got bored of watching the same thing over and over Well, I would say more than that. I think more than people getting bored of watching the same thing People got bored of watching the same thing happen less frequently because People stopped playing the beta because they didn't invite enough people Like they should have invited way more people to the beta And they just didn't right so I I feel like we ran out of stuff to do in the beta well when it's level 40 So obviously we're going to run out at some point But I think just as big of a problem was it being level 40 as it was there not being enough people to do stuff with Yeah, I think I think I think if we had more people to do stuff with It would have been a lot people enjoy watching like people enjoy watching duels people enjoy watching dungeon runs this and that But there's only so many dungeons. You can run at 40. There's only There's only so many people on the server to play on or play with excuse me Uh, it's just different right like I would go outside I would always start my streams off with some duels and then towards the end it was like I would have to go out there and find I made a duel. No, I would sit out there for like five minutes before like Naxa was there like all the time, but like other than Naxa. Yeah, there's nobody else, right? It's like, okay You do a warrior 20 times in a row So really I just think I think whenever actual classic is out, right and it's not just about streaming, right? I think there's going to be so many people that are playing the game and enjoying the game That You're going to always have something that you can do right whatever kind of player you are Now looking at it from a stream perspective might be a little different. You can you can use that same You can use that same argument with like retail though. I mean, there's always something for you to do in retail It's just that Does what does it mean to you about yeah, and I but I have to go in like five minutes Yeah, but anyway, like I think that there's always something that you can do like you can do whatever you want You know do pep owls you can go do bg's you can go farm on or you can go do mythic plus That the problem is not necessarily that there isn't content to do The problem is that the player isn't compelled to do that content And I think that's really what the same issue with classic is going to be at a certain period of time Because people will reach their goal. They'll reach a plateau and then That's it and obviously whenever you're going to have like a new release or something like that Maybe more people will be you know wanting to come out and do that too But it won't be the same level of of engagement But like the the big difference there I think with classic Then one of the things that you're leaving out Is like the social dynamics of the game, right? Like during all these experiences and gearing up your character and whether it's leveling you start gearing up You go do raids this and that You you join a guild you meet a bunch of different people and you make friends with people Like I still talk to people that I haven't played wow with in two years, right? I haven't played since private server with them oh, yeah, and these these social These social interactions all lead up to Different relationships and that's what keeps you into the game like whenever I quit whenever I came back and I'm getting a phone call from my dad Yeah, it's fine But uh, so basically what I was going to say to asman was the the reason why I quit whenever I came back in raf It wasn't because like I sure I didn't like that. I didn't like gear score. I didn't like achievements. I felt like I was being kept out of doing content because I I wasn't playing the beginning of wrath and all that Right, so I didn't have gear score. I didn't have achievements to show that I could do the raids or whatever but The biggest problem was that I didn't have friends to play with a lot of my friends had quit Whenever my guild I maybe I should hold on to this for one of our asthma. I won't explain anyone I'll just explain it again to asman, but whenever my guild Whenever my guild died on On on private server, let me explain what happened right in a nutshell so We had a situation where basically classic beta was an air. Sorry the classic announcement happened okay The classic announcement happened everybody's super excited hype whatever And then all of a sudden people are like, wait, why am I still here? Like why am I still playing? Why like why am I still playing like this private server like classics that will come out soon This just kind of feels empty and pointless. So we slowly had people start quitting the game. I My particular situation my stream grew Got a lot of exposure And I ended up getting banned right which is that it was a dmca. That is just how it works. That's life, right? But between the server essentially dying the server essentially dying And my ban my my my ban happening. It was really hard to recruit There was another guild that had already died on the server and we were we were doing okay, right? We needed a few people that we need to fill a few spots Uh, there was another guild that already died. The guild was called ooze, right? They they had a guild with two co gms And uh, they they ended up dying, right? So They talked to me about joining the guild whatever They joined our guild Uh, first week of aq 40 happens We go we killed twin apps week one which for our guild and what we did like that was pretty good Like I was very happy with that Uh, they joined our guild. Um, I was very like diplomatic about everything, right? Very very diplomatic about everything and I was like, look if these guys are new and they're joining our guild We have to be fair with loot and all this stuff. I don't want this whole like About like, oh, I was in this guild. I was in this guild. We are one guild I don't give a crap where you came from. We are one guild now We want to go through we want to finish all the content. That's what that's what I said so, um, let's be let's Let's distribute the gear not equally but let's give them more stuff than than they would get in week one Just to make sure that they feel welcome and all this stuff So pretty much like all the best piece of gear that dropped they got in week one and then what ended up happening was One of the co gms Took like all the players that got loot in the first week and Look all the players that got loot in the first week and and basically like over half of of who had merged with them And then they or who had merged with us and left and took them to another guild, right? So we had some people leave whenever they merged into us because they didn't want to play with some of the new guys They had like beef and whatnot So they end up leaving and We're ending up like we end up stuck. Yeah, I know it's really messed up so we end up stuck with half the players and We end up having to pug aq 40 Right, we end up having to plug a bunch of aq 40. So we have to go and we have to like dump the I basically like emptied the guild bank completely on like consumes like flasks potions this that and We were giving that out to like pugs and everybody just to kind of keep the guild afloat And we did for six weeks. We kept the guild afloat for about six weeks Um on top of that, we had like problems with tanks We had a new we had a new tank in We had a new tank from that guild Who was always late to raid? He was always late to raid constantly afk Just dealing with real life stuff and i'm like dude like There were other officers in the guild that wanted to get rid of him and I said look like we don't have a choice Right, we have to make this work Okay, if we have another tank that we can be our main tank and he can off tank. That's great But That guy came from the other guild and he was totally stacked. He could dps. He could tank whatever but he was totally stacked He got like all the gear that he wanted in the other guild This is just the case, right? That's why he was going to tank for us. So um We basically just had to deal with it until eventually like slowly like, you know, just more and more attrition Like people quitting like I'm just going to chill till classic this and that um So yeah, that's that's basically what happened is uh It That's just kind of how it goes and like I remember like I was so upset man I was so incredibly upset because my guild like in classic wow dude like your guild is like your family Like I was so heavily invested in that guild not just like not just from a gameplay perspective I wasn't even streaming it anymore Like who cares? I wasn't streaming, right? But to me it's it's not about streaming all the time It's about playing the game and the relationships and the friends and the people that you meet And and That's why I wanted to play it when our guild broke up So many people quit I like I don't want to play with anybody else Like there were literally a bunch of people quit because they were like, well, I don't really want to play with anybody else I want to play with raid three. I want to play with the people in this guild And and that's the difference between classic wow and and a lot of other games that you just don't get anymore And and I think that's the important thing whenever you play classic is is to go and find these things Right Sarranger Sarranger was there. Yeah, Sarranger was there. What's up, dude? Sarranger was a rogue in our guild, right? We had people come in take loot Uh and and leave And complain that they couldn't get like the first item of whatever that dropped like I know specifically one thing that came up Now, here's the thing here's this is I run a loot council type of guild and this is my general Thought process on on how we run loot council is we gear up the tanks, right? PV these are two things PvE priority, right? We kind of make decisions based on What's going to help the guild and the raid the most Gear up the tanks because if your tanks are better It's it's better for everybody, right because your dps can dps more Your tanks are surviving better so that your healers don't need to heal as much tanks help everybody, right? So It was like, okay. Well, I want the first two-handed weapon that drops too and I was like, okay. Well, look I I'm I'm playing rat, right? I'm playing rat. I use a two-hander like I I'm gonna get the first dark edge, right? That's that's what the plan is That's you know, I'm the guild leader. I'm playing rat This is like the this is like the one thing like the one thing that I have like My claim to is like if I want a two-handed weapon then I'll get that right and it's like, oh, okay Well, you know, I don't think that's fair or whatever. You shouldn't even be retting the raids. It's like You have got to be kidding me So like I'm this is what I told him I was like, look We go we go pve priority and then we say who does the most We we do like who does the most in pvp, right? Who does the most in pvp and it's like, yeah, if you're pvp here, which he was Then sure like absolutely absolutely you could get the next the next dark edge because we didn't have any any other pvp warriors at the time, right? Uh, but whenever we're talking about like, okay Uh, this guy using this or that or whatever. It's it's pve priority, right? That's the plan Let me look at notifications real quick Zerpie donated three dollars your hair is looking nice today. Thank you Yamco just your sub for 11 months. Love you bro. I appreciate that That's right, dude. Classic hard. Thanks for the 11 months in zerpie. Thank you for the three dollars fish camp But just your sub for two months as fanned only two months but looking forward to many more with classic The dream is alive high chat Thank you for the two months fish gambit Space monkey. Thank you for the twitch prime Rixie gifted us up to kelwin rixie. Thank you. Just your sub for two months Thank you for the two months bloodjohn 69 just your sub for six months sub man Thank you bloodjohn. Thanks for the six months. That's the new badge, dude dank veg with the twitch prime Fuzi with 10 months been supported for more than 10 and it is a lot more than 10 I've said this but super proud of how far you've gotten since we met so long ago Thanks, my dude less than three Thanks, man. 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I I was really behind on notifications. I I try to pause them to not get interrupted I'm gonna I'm gonna play the game a little bit. I'm still talking about stuff here. Um, dude Yeah You need a two-year sub badge Soon not quite yet Hadry with five gifted subs hadry. Thank you so much for the five good subs, dude Thank you so much man. Pacquio Lee NB. Thank you for the twitch prime six months Thank you, dude. Look at that. Thank you guys so much for all the subs and resubs um But yeah, I mean that was that was pretty much everything that was a long that was a long start to the stream That was a long Uh session for daily dose of classic guys I'm gonna keep the stream going obviously, right? But uh for daily dose of classic We're let's go ahead and call it there. We kind of we kind of got off in a rant as been joined in mcconnell joined in for a little bit, so Thank you guys for joining me if you're watching this on youtube Feel free to subscribe if you want to see this I'm going to keep doing this at the start of my streams every day until classic launch Or almost every day the semi daily dose of classic Like it if you like it and leave a comment. Let me know what you want to want me to talk about There's all kinds of stuff to talk about still Different topics that i'm going to touch on so guys everybody say bye youtube everybody chat say bye youtube. Hey youtube. Hey youtube suck my