 This is an inside Jerry's brain call on Thursday, February 28th at 11 a.m. Ish Pacific time And we are just checking in just to to see what's on our minds map wise otherwise and See where that might take us for an hour and then I have to I have to actually book you at the top of the hour So we'll see what that goes Anybody care to start I just have a personal question for Michael Michael I know on in the past you've mentioned you've had some Issues with being able to stand and sit and walk with you some structural issues. How are you doing? Are you are you any better? Are you still struggling? I'm just Thank you. Thank you, Ken. Yeah, I'm I'm actually laid down by a head cold today. It's So it's another onslaught on myself regards the The polymylogic Rheumatica PMR you can look up PMR on Wikipedia comes just before PMS which gives you some idea what you're really looking at and Yes, it's it's it's handled by drugs steroids help I'm perfectly competent in most things these days. I even went skiing last week. Wow Thank you for your consideration. I'm I Have no excuses Say lovey. Thank you. I'll be Yeah, sorry, that was a when I used to live in Boston There was a comedy troupe that would play at Faniel Hall and Quincy Market and one of their signature lines was say lovey and the whole audience would go lovey, so I'm sorry. I missed our cue on that Now you'll know for next time exactly. Hey Reigns, how you doing? You are muted. We cannot hear you and I assume we're supposed to guess where you're walking You're walking a big clue. Can you give us a clue? Somewhere with sky. Yeah Books so there's a bookstore behind you. You're in a mall an open-air mall. Yeah So I didn't recognize the bookstore and and Reigns lives in Berkeley souls, oh Souls so oh Saul's deli. So you're in you're in off just off Shattuck absolutely Fabulous and just a couple blocks to your left is Chepanese brilliant and right in the Vine Street collect the juice bar collective on Vine Street, which is closing after 42 years That's too bad and the bookstore that was behind you went out of I thought they went out of business Amazing it lasted that long that was what was it called oak books black oak black oak. Yeah. Oh, yeah Cool, nice to see you. We're just checking in a little bit on mathy sort of things any anything math-wise on your brain Up he muted it. You are muted, which is fine Sorry, I was going to be quiet to hear other people check-ins to then get in context sounds great Thanks. Oh Michael you're in here twice now Most interesting and one of you is frozen Like your evil twin just got spawned off. Yeah, so are we supposed to now like play with our consoles and try to kill the evil twin? Please don't Good now. He's gone How about that? Robert you want to talk a little bit about any mappy puzzles you're you're you're playing with because I know you're you're in the middle of multiple maps, so Yeah Well, I guess I'm more looking for some sort of like maybe sort of like a data interoperability layer or something that would sort of allow people to use the mapping tools that they use and still sort of Federate their data in some way so that while I'm on my map. I might stumble upon maybe something in your brain or something like that but Really my focus recently has been on this open learning commons thing and sort of trying to sketch out Sort of a suite of tools that this learning community can use together one of which Is on the top of my mind now is the federated wiki and trying to figure out What's the best way to sort of host that and then offer that to the community? And it's sort of a mappy thing and maybe it's not as visual, but when you're down in Down in your wiki pages and sort of creating things you can sort of think of each page is like a note on a map and the links between them So that's sort of Been on my mind in terms in terms of oh, and yeah context there Ward Cunningham and hosa a weekly call on Wednesdays And they are playing with something called graph is as a layer on top of federated wiki that lets you sort of see the bigger picture and Click on visual nodes using graph is to sort of navigate navigate the different pages within your federated And graph is is that the AT&T research Visualization tool that sort of got deprecated and but there's a whole bunch of projects that have built on top of Yes, yes, I'm not super familiar with it, but both Ward and David Bovell seem to be sort of Power users of this and as I said, they've sort of Created a plug-in for federated wiki and actually federated wiki is has a lot of plug-ins. It's a very pluggable sort of system and So, yeah, they're trying to play with how to See the bigger picture and actually Ward exports I guess he does like a web crawl of the entire Federation or at least the entire federated wiki Federation and Puts like a file that has every page on it. So you could potentially Create a huge sort of graph visualization of the entire sort of federated federated wiki universe Have you looked at idea flow much? I Would have only seen it because I think you mentioned it and it's creator on a recent call So I sort of explored a bit, but no, I haven't used it. I don't know how open it is is part maybe part of the problem, but It's got funding and interest from Joey Ito And it looks to me it looks to me super powerful because to me graph is seems like a really antiquated tool And maybe it's been brought up to date I don't know, but but if idea flow could be put to use around these things. It might be actually really helpful But I don't know and and here's Here's Ward Cunningham smallest federated wiki and then Here's actually the github for it and there's a bunch of people who've been who've been using that including David Bowville He has Let me just bring him up and then here's his federated wiki and We were just learning about the thought garden federated wiki as well. So let me just connect this up to the smallest federated wiki and then we were learning just a little while ago on an earlier call today about team rules and wikis and a project that David has called story craft Which is trying to do a deliberative discourse for large groups of people And let me actually connect Goville to this project and there's another fellow named Hamid I know Habib who is involved here whose last name I don't know but I have that under collaborative storytelling and it feels like a piece of what many of our conversations are around is some kind of Collaborative storytelling and meaning-making in order to fix stuff. I Think that's maybe a reasonable a reasonable paraphrase of just a whole bunch of our efforts here It's like alright. How do we come together? to Make you know, this the collaborative sense-making thing Which is also a thick nest of nodes in my brain. So I'll bring that up I have too many things open my brain is slowing down to a crawl. I mean, yeah There we go Boop and then I'll stop screen sharing and see what anybody what this provokes for anybody So here's collaborative sense-making and then I have a project I call open global mind and One of the interesting nodes next to open global mind is open global mind neighbor communities Which includes IPLD so Basically IPFS link data, right? Interplanetary link data is what I would call a neighbor community and I think this this quest that Robert just mentioned about how how might we fashion an intermediate layer of trustworthy data in a reusable formats So that we could peek into one another's maps reuse them Annotate them yet still remember who put what in I think that's a great ask and a great way to a great way to go Robert does that resonate for you and Your yeah, there you go Yeah, sorry. I was you asked I don't know I guess I went a little too deep into trying to pull up other other stuff That's right. It was on my mind recently. So I was off collecting those but Yeah, the other story threader's or other I very much like this sort of role-based way of sort of Thinking of how we might sort of create some sort of map-looking digital artifact together. That's I Guess I call it federated because it's not exactly like anybody owns like the whole chunk of data It's just we all opt-in sort of to sort of contribute our little piece and make it a little more open so it can be discovered and the I know you're aware of it, but this fits in with the Game-shifting stuff, which is very role-based and actually provides other potentials in terms of like on the zoom call We could maybe have on my screen or something like a little Display board that might say like what mode the group's in and then hey, I'm playing a weaver role Or I'm playing some other type of role so I very much like this sort of almost like a yeah a game thinking of it as a game or that we're all playing different sort of and and For further context. I had a conversation with Jack Park just recently and he has a project called topic quests and this is also how and it's very much over lines with what I'm trying to do with the open learning commons is the He he described how he wants to create or he's creating a tool that's soon to be released that You can do sort of dialogue mapping with so questions answers pros and cons and you sort of map this all out but he he thinks of it through this same gaming lens of You're going on a quest together. You sort of pull together a guild of people and Everybody sort of has their maybe their stated role Not not exactly that like maybe you're not like the best at this role or like it's your top skill But for now you'll take on this role and play play in a certain way that like yeah Maybe I'm listening for nuggets of of information or trying to hold some perspective during a conversation and just offering it as a service maybe note-taking or some other sort of another role I'm adding that to OGM neighbor communities and also a bunch of what Jack's work started as was how do I make an open source version of Watson IBM's Watson So there's a bunch of Quite ambitious sort of AI type logic and question answering capacity that lies behind it But he's also trying to pull together these these quests and I've been an advisor to kind of a quiet Listener from the sidelines to topic quest foundation for for some time. I've known Jack for a long time And these and I'm game-shifting is Arthur Brock's thing Arthur. I know quite well I Throwing it really well. He's been one of two fellows for Rex for Since 2010 and I've known him way before that but We've got to be able to figure out which of these people to bring together because we're sort of I feel like the piece parts are sort of on the table and And We we're we're a couple collaborations away from having some really interesting stuff Show up I'm just looking at the link that you sent and Jeffy The thing I'd say about game Shifting is it's kind of a really cool sort of just open idea That's out there as a potential more so than a fully developed sort of what doesn't exist in a software product form it's more of like a local sort of in the same room conversational thing with like little Mini whiteboards or something, but it took it. It's totally open as a potential to sort of develop further as some sort of Software tool to augment the zoom call or I guess maybe any any call and here I'll add something that's kind of Maybe a pet peeve of mine, but also kind of an interesting piece of the puzzle, which is One of the reasons I stuck with the brain so long and that I love the brain is that I've got one brain file And I always feed this one brain file. I know other black belt brain users who have thousands of brain files They're always opening a new one and going boo boo boo boo boo boo boo And I know others like Mark Trexler who have divided brain files on purpose because they sell access to them And they need to have sort of finite domains. I sort of get that But on the one hand I find that I Starting fresh with every conversation. I find sort of fruitless or frustrating because it's like well shit do we have to do the same thing again and So that's one reason why I love always connecting into this larger thick context, but On the other hand, I know that connecting into the larger thick context is completely overwhelming to new to newbies Often not always sometimes you're like, oh, I there's a little hook There's a little anchor I get it and they sort of they they're a little bit like annex honald And they can get like a finger grip where you don't see it where you don't see a foothold They see a toe hold and then suddenly they're often climbing and you're good But mostly I think in large measure people are overwhelmed by really large contexts But then there's this complicating factor that really large historic context tend to limit creative thinking and tend to channel your Thinking into whatever the original structures were which is goes back to the conversation Robert that Christina and I've been having a couple times which is If you're gonna bring a map to a community, do you give them a template? If so, what template do you give them because if this map is about food? growing Then and it's a basic assumption so that you're going to pour a lot of fertilizer and pesticide on a crop that you're Going to plow heavily and sell through secondary markets, you know to ADM and whoever else that are really different from permaculture organic farming intercropping pesticide-free Natural farming like like my template would be completely different for those two things one template would all be about How nature works and how and how we learn from nature and bring that back and about monitoring healthy soil The other one would be about market price of corn or soybeans tomorrow and whether we should plant all corn or all soybeans next year Because here's the you know Here's what what wall speed analysts say about the projections on pricing and what the weather forecast informs those You know, you assume those prices actually fold in sophisticated weather models Etc. Etc. I subscribe to a newsletter from grow research GRO research And it's got stuff I never ever used but I'm completely intrigued by like, you know Brazil soybean market whacked by something or other and you're like geez, you know behind the scenes everywhere There's there's these markets and movements going on all the time that are like that and and so I say all this because What what is the what is the just enough balance between so so partly? I say that because every now and then I think it's really beneficial to blow up your model and Just start over and merely start over and long ago when I first became a fan of Wikipedia There was this question of you know Should schools use Wikipedia should kids be allowed to look at Wikipedia blah blah blah my my thing was Wikipedia is built on the wiki media engine. You can instantiate one for nothing. It's free Tell a class how to use it and go tell them to use this thing to tell you all they all they can learn about dinosaurs without Copying out big parts of the Wikipedia Just don't don't go look at it necessarily But tell me tell me everything you know about time use this tool to go fashion and and and craft some domain of knowledge And in so doing you'll hit the interesting problems of how do we represent a taxonomy or or some other you know way of Organizing all those things will just sort of show up naturally in the task of organizing and theirs will probably not be the definitive Wiki on dinosaurs, but but the mere task of figuring those those little hitting those intellectual Bumps is super useful and and brings a lot of people way further into the community of black belt Mappers and representers and systems thinkers right and and those people might not be created if everybody were using Fully fleshed out really sophisticated models all the time And yet every now and then you want to go see the really beautiful baked cake and see what what does a pro do with this funny like You know icing squirting tool. Oh my god It looks like like the Amazon jungle just just came to life on a cake like that's that's that's it's it's inspiring It triggers different ideas, etc. Go ahead race I just sent you are mentioning constricting structures and Permaculture design principles. I had some links. I tried to share in text, but got disconnected so I Can figure I by mentioning them here. They will get links So I first off liberating structures Conference in Seattle. I just got off the waiting list. So I'll be going. Oh fabulous That's a week after next Nancy White is doing the pre-conference immersion. So I totally forgotten that they have events. I think of them as the As the the the website with interesting stuff, but I don't I don't think of them as having events I didn't even know about this and I'm bump. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was late to the party myself didn't think I was going to make it in shoot They are they are planning on doing some zoom connection to it I will share that out and totally invite the community and of course, thank you very much Originally, I started talking to them. Could I come and help share it? You know with if I couldn't get into this an official registrant and they wisely were saying let's do things that don't Overcomplicate or take away from the in-person There's a lot. There's a whole art art of facilitating online art of facilitating in person And you're trying to do that together in a noisy space with open space That would take a lot of either a lot of production work or a lot of other types of work. Yeah But but they are very much of course their work. It's all about bringing out to the world and sharing so that'll be there and there's a Chance that I might get to stop in Portland on the way up So if you're in town, awesome should be yep, not going very far in the next little bit. All right and This is unusual for me. This is my first trip of the year Usually I'm more traveled by now, but yeah this This this weekend I Guess I can say Liberty structures in particular. It's that seems to be a pattern language a Whole way of approaching the design of facility in the original development and I I love that those those worlds Exactly. There's also the pattern language the group works card deck. Yeah, which has I think some overlap with liberating structures I don't I really don't know how much I've connected them here in my brain There's definitely some people connection and I'm looking forward to finding out how much overlap and approaches Then the permaculture design deck Kickstarter project I supported just ships And it's like a 250 car deck and when you say permaculture and many people think oh like dry garden like, you know You know don't put a lot in but it's it's a really deep system of many layers of thinking about Nature design social design social justice Future visioning So many layers of this design deck I'm just starting to explore it, but it's even just looking at it its category permaculture design deck I'm not sure if that's the URL but I Will find it shortly Permature designed it by Devin Salkin someone Kickstarter. How about that? That's the one. That's great Thank you. I didn't know about it and even just the imagery for the the the categories I love these kind of things because they helped me a lot is teaching frameworks and presentation rules And I'm looking actively for principles For design from trust Well, that's something that I'll be doing this weekend in San Francisco Through authentic relationships training sereness Oh Austin based filmmaker did circling work, but she's evolved it into her own brand Ness or Ness and ESS She was a Filmmaker who did a cross-country drive Some of your respect to the film for a film to be titled the year of the co-op Which is yet to be completed and that's how I got to know her and and her work But this is a newer venture and she seems to be doing a lot more in sort of the coaching facilitating Development authentic relationships and this authentic leadership workshop And of course so so much of that starts with knowing yourself and Yeah, just processing dynamics. So yeah, that sounds great. I've not explored it in depth, but That seems like the right kind of tool set to bring to the table for this Last there we go. Here's permaculture design. Yeah, yeah Thank you beautiful. Yeah, nicely done. Of course that community has a lot of good artists for sure And then lastly touch on before I just wanted to bring it to the surface At the end of May the National Co-Housing Conference over the Hilton in downtown Portland. Oh Oh May 20 including pre-conference 28th to June 2nd approximately a lot of tours a lot of workshops a lot of good stuff and if anybody's considering registering talk to me because I can Organize I'm organizing some group discounts out of our California network and plug people into that But you have to buy, you know several tickets together to get that but in any case the It's a it overlaps with the start of the village building convergence 12-day long celebration by city repair in which lots of different neighborhood projects take place of Getting out in people where are painting streets creating cob benches and community amenities a portable tea house they've got something that's really deeply integrated with the city of Portland permitting these things and and Permi permaculture design to community design and they just put the groups through a lot of steps to have a good experience during it and it's overlapping with the Global Eco Village Network of North America the Gena Alliance is rebuilding part of the global Eco Village Network and There a number of those folks are going to be in town So we're actually casting about for a place to use as a base of operations Maybe somewhere we can do you know a two-week rental of a place that could host things as well as host people and and activities and a lot of All over maybe coming together for that and plug you into these other events as well Interesting, I think that the group that Robert and I are connected to is doing some is trying to put together a proposal for the Gena Alliance to do some mapping work Excellent we've done some preliminary work with Kumu in our last gathering at Arca Santi and I'm playing with that with the elders action network as well I Think I'd be my fuses might all pop if I was using mind mapping at Arca Santi I would be like I'd go into like a resident vibration mode and explode Yes, although it's kind of interesting just the the whole dynamic of being this incredible Moving deeply connected to the earth's place and then going inside and looking at screens. Yeah The dissonance is tangible But fungible one might say yeah, and by the way, I had I had it turns out I have the National Co housing conference in my in my calendar, but I had it down from May 30th to June 2 So I think I think I think that are those the official dates and there's some couple of pre-conference workshops indoors Gotcha. Okay good And then I was going to go Was I just heading? Kumu mapping Santi Arca Santi Gena Alliance. I was just gonna go to Arca Santi. Yeah Yeah Never really sending opportunity to go to Arca Santi. It's uh with Hill Solari's passing the foundation is really stepping up now And some young people are taking the energy and building community So that it's not just a bunch of people holding this a bunch of architecture and trust but It's people creating events and making it economically self-sustaining Kind of make it go. Yeah. We still Go ahead. Oh last last piece and I'll let I'll clear the floor. I'm Let me comment on this it's um They uh, they're They're at a point now where it's sort of so so stable, but you know to go the next step They need to have, you know, uh Roads upgraded so they can host larger capacity events and uh for Safety people being concerned the ambulance and people want to be able to drive in quickly Uh bumpy road, but uh, but it's sort of The real issue now is that people who've been there a long time Have the best faces and so People who are newer there and maybe starting families uh are having are being It's hard to make room for them So it's the clouds like we're looking at the development of senior co-housing to create more space for intergenerational families That's a similar dynamic here. How can you attract new workers and get them to stay unless you Help create better housing options for the seniors there So they'll free up their spaces and the core of the community And new workers can come in and it can go to the next level. Have you read walk away? um I uh, uh, have I actually read it? No Cory doctoro's book. Yeah. Yeah, I know. I know cori and um I've read a lot about it without actually reading it. I think so the premise of walk away Everybody our croissanti should go read walk away and then go talk to some 3d fab people because in in walk away basically There's the normals who've remained in cities that that society has collapsed cities are very dysfunctional And a lot of people have walked away into uninhabitable areas But because you can upload all your plans to the cloud and because fabbing is really easy and cheap You can go someplace and make a little village exactly the way you want it including a japanese spa Including, you know, all the different working parts And then if somebody comes and attacks you you can walk away from that and just go do it again Only a little bit better because as you were setting this one up You thought of a nicer design and you approved it etc. etc so This is completely utopian, etc. etc. But you know what so was our croissanti and i'm in i'm sort of intrigued by your statement that you know The the the oldest people have the some of the nicest real estate They're really stuck trying to expand this thing and of course always there's the business model But but it's it's sort of ironic that they're that they're stuck in a crusty half finished our croissanti when if all this stuff Came to fruition they could be expanding into Uninhabitable, you know land and make it work. They're not very far off the freeway I'm surprised the road is a problem because it's there's a bumpy there's a bumpy road But it's you can see it from the freeway Yes, um Yeah, but it but it is an issue. Yeah, Betsy can you say hi because i'm going to drive Hi, Betsy No, no, we were talking about uh our croissanti, but I will transition to Betsy because she has interesting things to share This is that a time of sharing what's pulling what we're up to Oh, wow. I'm sorry. I missed what everyone else is up to here we go Tell me what you're talking about We were checking. Well, so the context of the whole call is I've got a series of calls called inside jerry's brain Which is meant to be a tongue-in-cheek explorations of whatever is interesting to us with a little bit of visual context around it Okay Yeah, and and this call is a no context call is no particular topic It was just to check in because I haven't had a call in like two weeks and uh and reins was just pouring delightful things into the conversation Uh from events that he's going to and uh where you've been and a bunch of other stuff So I was looking things up and curating that into my brain as as we were sitting here talking well, I can I can share on uh On the sustainable communities front here in uh, Berkeley where I've been diving deep into more of the city discussions and planning for both uh disaster planning Which is now emerging to be a more urgent issue here resiliency resiliency The city staff has always had plans but it's now Needs to be a more community conversation Uh and and the city emphasizes Helping blocks of neighbors get to know each other so that they can be Store first supplies for at least three days after a major earthquake or Or something that might shut systems down. So in that vein, we're now You know kind of the class struggle here in Berkeley has amplified around enormous housing displacement and rising rents At a tsunami of displacement is the term used in Oakland So we have a debate when I heard you talking about the road. I thought you might be talking about work today at the city council There's a special meeting about the right the the people who are living in vehicles 1300 people on the streets, but 200 are living in vehicles and uh and the plan from the newest city council member who is deeply backed by the real estate industry. I just have to say um is to uh, uh Basically allow people to register for two weeks of permitted parking once a year So this is like so absurd absurdly is basically a Right now you can park there and you move every three days, but uh, you know, it's upsetting neighbors if but they're in an industrial district Uh, and there's a lot of issues the city could use funds that they're allocating elsewhere Uh to provide sewer to provide Garbage pickup, you know, like you do on a residential street They could they have the power to turn this into a campground for emergency shelter I mean every every city You know that's thriving on one hand is doing this displacement thing where now rents half ball uh pay More than more than what's considered affordable, but That includes 30 percent who are paying half of their income or more for rent So I'm ranting a little but the connections are very deep and the solutions all come back to uh creating Varieties of what you know is as tiny home villages as co-housing enabling people both to have to be private parking campers if you want to call it that Or and creating blocks of land where 20 or 25 people can Share utilities and actually My take on this is we need to learn how to live more lightly And people who are already living more likely using less carbon Right now they're in miserable conditions on the street But there's people who would like to live in small homes with the with the challenge of of using solar and Being net zero energy and greenhouse gas and You know we have a movement of movements that could come together with if we were just a little more creative And tweak the laws just a little bit So i'm excited about you know bringing those examples forward trying not to get overwhelmed by my own outrage Yeah a lot of allies. It's very exciting, but thank you. It's still a battle. Thank you. It's really cool. Thank you One random question Which has always like been in my head around the east bay The old alameda and naval naval base is a giant giant piece of real estate that's paved over I don't know if it's a super fun site, but why has nobody done anything around low-income housing there? Well, but keep in mind that again the real estate industry which many of us make a good living in Is like the oil industry. I'm sorry. It's in trench. So they do not want it to be affordable housing And the little bit that's been allowed there Uh Is is there but the majority of the political Interest is how to make a killing on that land if you built luxury housing. There's also cleanup issues Yes, there are still cleanup issues and there's also that alameda for decades Uh, uh did not allow multifamily housing to be built only Now that still doesn't by citizen initiative. Yeah, yeah, but it does It's got more pressure to to allow multifamily housing. I think that bill that ordinance was struck down as unconstitutional or illegal But it's still it's a it's a town that doesn't that has a strong resistance to multifamily housing Yeah does walnut creek and many affluent suburbs. This is why we're in a housing shortage So just this is a note to robert and me heading back toward conversations later with christina bowen Who's the kulu kumu black belt mapper and a bunch of initiatives that we're working on? The food nexus is a strong Hole for what to map and and how to help communities, but I think Everything you're pointing to just echoes how strong housing is Uh, and that and that network maps Uh Or influence maps or whatever kinds of maps of this housing nexus might be useful in those conversations And what what could be interesting is just to ask you guys like if you could envision maps that would be useful What would that those maps be of and what would they work like? How would you how would they be used? As boundary documents or as conversational artifacts that would help convince people of things Well, I think the convincing is more on the lines of who's going to be my neighbor, but I want to say that the there's an excellent of Food atlas that was produced produced up at cow I don't know almost a decade ago But for example, it mapped every parcel every publicly on parcel in the city of oakland That was vacant or radically underused and that had a flat enough With close to water access and power And was flat enough to allow farming and there were over Over a thousand acres of this land And right now there's no protocol to allow urban farming let alone considering Farm worker housing the truth is that with a very tiny homes you could have a dozen Worker I'm putting in quotes worker housing Uh, and and have an urban farm. Yeah, and also like we couldn't do both And verticality doesn't have to be an object because they've got wall farms and a hole in the terracing is well known You know, you can do a lot of stuff with with with straggly terrain Yeah, but in this case, this is vacant land that is prime for spin farming I mean, we're not talking about giant crops with tractors stands for a small plot intensive. Yeah, it's been Widely promoted as a a great way to do intensive livelihood generating Small plot intensive what? small plot intensive Spin spin. Let's see. Yeah small plot intensive Oh that intense the end is from uh intensive intensive. Yeah, it started with a guy in canada and he's worked He's given talks and promoted it. I don't see it a lot, but it's it's it's the best way to actually make a viable business Urban farming rather than community gardening, but all of those plots could have caretaker quarters You could you could easily Have dozens of tiny homes Well thousands if you added up all the plots, so it's Urban farming. Yeah, I gotta I have to go And I'd love to share more and I'm always glad to take a peek in your brain. Thank you That was super helpful. I really appreciate it Um, and I'm gonna have to leave at the top of the hour. So that was a lot of stuff anybody can go ahead Yeah, um, so I was listening to bedsy talking about people want to live, you know With a lower carbon footprint I was reminded of this article I recently saw that uh, I threw into the chat window about the The challenge with putting the focus on individuals to change carbon footprints when there are You know a dozen or there's like 25 companies responsible for this enormous amount of pollution and and carbon output. So Um, while I really applaud everybody who's trying to lower their footprint I think it's it's not even a drop in the bucket compared to turning off the fire hose And the other thing that comes to mind is Bringing a lot about the green new deal. I would really love to see that mapped out particularly with regards to some of the the ancillary things that it touches on like homelessness like, you know Like small scale urban farming It feels like it's it's a great framework that we had some really nice visual maps for could really help Understand what's going on because it's right now, you know, it's under attack from from the status quo and and Somebody it's not me because I don't have this capacity But if there was a group of people willing to sit down and map out this stuff and give it some really nice infographics I think it really would gain That would be a very useful tool for a general public conversation about what are we actually looking at here? Super interesting And it very timely like that was something something like that that was quite useful would get a lot of attention from somebody these days And I'm I was when I started reading the green new deal Documents I was kind of struck by it's much more It's much more about the new deal and the welfare society and the larger things than it is about green development I mean, there's a slice of it. That's about green But really it's we're going to have free college. We'll hope you know Meaningful base income all that kind of stuff. So it's it's a series of Gigantics social programs which which I was like, ah man because there's because there's a huge opportunity to find common ground with greening And I think that's that's a much easier Slice of all this to take. So anyway, and I think mapping the issues would make that visible In in in useful ways. Anybody else with thoughts? Um Yeah Last week I gave a symposium webinar thing on The money currencies and the like I put a link in the chat Um And it worked pretty well and the group that I did that with the re-economy practitioners or some people from the re-economy practitioners We're going to um, see if we can germinate A little think tank on dig life Um, you should through the um, robert's open land learning channel as a starting point Um, basically to start Uh, it's our populist education process around money There's a lot of elitist education about money, of course, but Some of the people leave their heads around easily and act on is in a different category Um Specifically, I was dealing with the issues of we need circular economies and that means circular money What is circular money? And then third part how do we propagate it? And in closing on the loop I was introducing the idea that banks could be using community money Or providing community money services for their um existing customer base Very readily. Um, I mean after all a bank could run a time bank For sure So it could also run on business to business network. It could run Let systems it could run anything you like without touching its financial regulations because all of this is just Chatter by its membership and there is no liability to the institution involved So I'm good. Sorry about that. That's about it. Um, I was just going to say I was Trying to talk people at the design firm where I'm sitting right now into pitching things like that to a local banking institution It's early as like a year and a half ago, which is nothing like the 20 years you've been proposing us um, but I think the ideas are hard for them to To seize on so Yeah, it's definitely difficult for people to get their heads around this particularly the the institutional heads I mean 37 years actually Jerry. There you go. See I knew I was under counting And when we first began with the let system, we went to the credit union movement in British Columbia and Pointed out that they could do this They could implement local currencies in all of their branches Um, but they argued back that there was one mainframe running 60 70 entities and they couldn't allocate any programming time to it Wow Wow Well, that was that's reality in those days. Well, that was them. Yeah, exactly And then later I I've stewed going that route because I've had so much difficulty with the the The institutions you try and get in through their channels their Policy bunch their marketing is no hope But if instead you can get in through their customers and through their staff as an idea virus and Propagate the potential for these ideas in that community then I think we can Make conference in vancouver last week from the van city credit banking And they would be an interesting vector, huh? Because they're famous they're they're huge and interesting A thing I learned years ago I got to talk to the founder of the internet credit union Which was a spin out of the internet archive that bruster kale runs And they they got it. It turns out you can start a credit union very easily That that's a bring getting it up and running is simple and that almost everybody. I don't know whether everybody I don't know if van city does this but almost everybody uses qso software credit unions service operations or something like that And they're all completely and the qso software is almost immovable is is like is like fixed and static And everybody's afraid to touch it or change it lest it be unapproved by regulators so Innovation in the credit union business is basically zippity-doodle Because of this barrier and and I would I'd love to know what van city has done if it's different because they're big enough that if they did something, you know unique and different and Started layering currencies into this they could change the game Yeah, I think there'd be more than the software would be a problem for their process in that but If they just provide a gateway to a portal a portal to our api Don't have to touch their software at all And that's the route where we'll be recommending interesting very interesting van city itself is is a very interesting organization in that it's probably The biggest credit union in canada rains is home But that makes it the most pretentious the most rigid the most complacent of all of them and Therefore you need some fairly armor piercing. Yeah Munitions to get to them interesting small note on emergency supplies Uh In san francisco april and I lived in a place that probably would have been one of the first to tumble in an earthquake Because it was brick and not that well reinforced although the pilings were reasonably sturdy, but who knows it would probably gone down But I was like even stockpiling A couple days worth of water was hard Was really hard like I bought a bunch of jugs of water and it's after a while you're like Well, okay after six months for a year They're going to taste like plastic anyway, and then one or two of them just sprang leaks and emptied themselves You know spontaneously on their own Etc. And that was just water And like we didn't have a lot of spare closet space and if we did It was space that would be crushed when the building went down, right? So there was no safe domed Place for a bunch of neighbors to share a bunch of that didn't exist. There was no so so And if you had a really great stockpile and everybody else got wind of it You'd be fighting everybody off from the stock like the issues on this Are multi layered and pain in the butt like really complicated. Yeah, that's Going back to it. Betsy was talking about in terms of community resilience getting to know your neighbors Some people have more space than others. You can you could rent a pod You know those pods and stockpile it with blankets and food and water and I have old milk crates and I buy milk ball, you know Milk jug one gallon plastic milk jugs and every six months. I dump in my garden. I refill them and put them in there So it's ever more than six months and you know, but it is hard and but our fire chief said, you know There's no way people said oh after three days, they'll come around with food and water for you, right? And he's like who who's gonna go with water, you know, you are on your own So, you know and the other thing is Don't make it all tuna fish and sardines Chocolate in there because after a couple of 10 days of eating tuna and sardines, you don't want something you really want so, you know But it's it's hard when you live in a place where you're subject to emergencies like that fires floods earthquakes all which we get around here You know, yeah to stock up and and be prepared Which is why the community side of this makes so much sense like absolutely getting everybody up means that there's something everywhere Um, I must I must boogie. Um Thank you everybody Totally appreciate this You have poured goodness into the call. Thank you for showing up And uh