 You matter, no matter who you are, where you are, what you've done, you matter. Every decision you make, every breath you take, everything you do, you matter. So if you wanna be part of creating the world we wanna see, just think about what you're doing and understand that that decision to buy the seventh generation unbelief toilet paper matters. And I think we need, we, you and I, Mark, and people like us need to work harder to get consumers to understand, everyone is a consumer, to understand that everything you do is important. Dianne Hatz is my guest on this episode of Inside Ideas, brought to you by 1.5 Media and Innovators Magazine. Dianne is a social entrepreneur working to create a more helpful, sustainable, equitable world with a strong focus on food and farming. He is currently the CEO and founder of Bulma Grow USA as well as founder and executive director of the Nonprofit Change Food and its latest program, Plant Eat Share, an effort to provide resources for communities to grow and share healthy food. She has also founded and hosted TEDx Manhattan, Changing the Way We Eat from 2011 to 2015. In the show notes, I'm going to list all her tags and social media and website and we're going to get into it. Dianne, welcome to the show, thanks. It's so good to see you. Mark Buckley, Ditto, so great to see you. It's been forever. It has been. So for our listeners, I'll catch them up a little bit. We know each other from back in 2017 at Seeds and Chips, we're both speaking and our past crossed a little bit there. And then I had the fortunate honor, the blessing to sit right next to you at the Seeds and Chips dinner table, a round of all other Seeds and Chips speakers at the Eat Forum in Stockholm, Sweden. And we had a nice little exchange, sort of some other cool people like Ron Finley and Danielle Gould at the time. And we're all pigging out and eating some good, good healthy food and enjoying the Eat Forum. But that's how we know each other. And we're collaborating on a couple of things like Boma, which we're kind of and maybe didn't know that our past, because we're on different continents, which are the super movement organization and things are growing and changing and evolving there. As well as you're going to help me out with some contributions to my book, Menu B, and now the podcast. And I'm so excited. Don't get too excited. Try to comment down. Say that after we talk. Okay. That's the thing is I believe that we're, we both love good connections and love to talk. Especially about what we're passionate about or what, what our life school is. And that's really why I also won't really wanted to speak to you and have you on is because there's so much with them and things you can depart to us or kind of give us insights. I want to touch right off the bat on. It's trying to get the negativity out of the way. So to say how in the hell have you weathered this pandemic? Or are you still weathering the pandemic? And the reason I ask you this is because it's not only because I genuinely want to know. I think it's. Been okay. But I want to hear all of that. You've been working in this area of food. Sustainability a little bit regeneration farming things like this. For a while. And also thinking with thought leaders with the Ted X, Manhattan. Which. You have a little bit of preparation. Or some resilience through this damn turmoil time that we've had. And so that's, I want to ask if that's the case. I would like to get a catch up and just. Think our listeners would as well. So, you know, like most people when the pandemic hit, and I live in New York city. So we were one of the first places in the U.S. That really got hit. So we were one of the first places in the U.S. That really got hit and got hit hard. When it happened, everything just shut down and. You know, I don't know if people can even remember back six months. We didn't know how contagious it was. We didn't know how it was transmitted. You know, people were. They were just ambulances. The hospitals are just up the road for me. So it's just sirens day and night. They had refrigerated trucks to put. People who had passed away in. So it was scary. And. Like most people. I didn't freak out. I shut down and then rebooted and then got into action immediately. So what I did was I heard a story. And this can still make me cry. I heard a story of elderly people sitting in the cars. Outside stores crying. Because they were so afraid to go in because nobody knew. Like, and they were afraid they were going to die. So I. Just. Started organizing and I got a group of people together in the East village. We ended up with about 200 volunteers. We're still active now. But what we did was we posted flyers all over the neighborhood and we would buy groceries, walk dogs, just talk to people. We did. Neighbor helping neighbor. Over the course of months. What I started to realize is that this happens often. Spontaneously around the world. The people just stood up and said, how can I help my neighbor? And this. Is the key to everything I'm going to talk about today. Because I think this is the answer to all our problems. People do care. People do want to help each other. People can solve problems in their own area. So what we just did. Yesterday was the first day. I published a book. We started a Facebook group. We have over 1200 people and you can only live in the East village from New York to be in the group. I posted out saying I'd love to have a community fridge. And I assume you know what community fridges are. They started in Germany. And they're, they're all over the world now. So a restaurant owner up the road at this great. Like mac and cheese plates called the S back. He. Answered me and he said, Oh, I've been thinking the same thing. So he found a refrigerator on the road, cleaned it out, plugged it in. And yesterday we started it. We don't even have it stocked. Like he has some of its mac and cheese in the freezer. I went, I went to check it later and people had already put food in it. It's amazing. So. So. I still have anxiety. I still. I'm nervous about the second thing. I still have anxiety. I still have anxiety. I still am nervous about the second wave, but I feel confident that there are enough people in my community that will do whatever they can to help somebody else. Out. That's fabulous. And you're right. I've heard stories and I've had people on the show that have said the exact same thing, you know, it's, it's our basic resource food and, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, breathing food, water, shelter, security, and this connection, a social connection of how do we happen? How do we do it? How do we make it happen that we get our basic needs and our. Basis. Covered for each other and. People rallying, especially for. In Thailand, it was really big, the hospital workers. Weren't even getting food from their own kitchen and serving tons of shifts and things. And so a lot of people rallied around that. And then also that the elderly, they were having some huge anxieties of where they're going to get their food and how, how are they going to, you know, whether they don't want to go out. They're like in a panic mode, but also how are they going to get their essentials? And, you know, some of them didn't have families. So there was a huge type of rally around that. So I loved, I loved to hear that, but I'm also. Glad to hear that you're human and do you, you've really. You also, even though you have the preparedness and you're connected and you have this thought about food, but the fear. It was a difficult time for you, but you found a way to kind of get out of that. That mode of, you know, Lockdown or anxiety or fear that how can we help or move forward? Well, and I think, I think everyone can do what they can do. So I, yeah, I'm in my fifties. So I'm borderline in that danger zone area. I wasn't out on the street delivering the food. But what I could do is organize people to deliver food. So people, you know, sort of took what they could do and then used it to help, help however they could. And that's something I think that is actually inherent in everybody that we don't always give enough credit to. And I don't think people always not congratulate themselves, but realize that those little acts are what changes the world. I totally believe that I have been fortunate that I've been doing this for a while and it was difficult for me in some respects, but I'm also have this. Technolust, this innovation, this foresight from the future in that, so that I've been trying to prepare for the humans of new work and set up my environment of the way I eat and the way I work in a certain way. And so some of these transitions weren't as hard for me, but what I really found is it put me in a unique position to be able to help people with services and food and, with information on how to make the transition, how to get a little resilience and how to, to not bounce back, but also do this reset or use these times in a different way. And no busier than ever on things during this lockdown, which is really interesting, but it's nice to hear that. What can you tell us about plant, eat and share when it started and kind of how that's evolved and, and what you're doing with it now? I won't even ask you more. I'll just give you this, give you that to start with. And then I want to go into some specifics. Sure. So planning share came about because I started noticing over the past year or so that in different parts of the world, communities are just coming together and they're doing different things to plant and grow food that they can give to people in need. It's maybe close to a year now, but the city of Copenhagen, they decided and they made an announcement that they are planning fruit trees and bushes in all their public spaces. I looked at this and I just thought, oh my God, this is it. This is a way communities can feed themselves. Is it going to solve all the problems? No. Is it going to help people in crisis? Yes. Is it potentially better than a handout from the city? Yes. I mean, it's not just about planning food. So let me step back a second. Planning share is basically planning food in public spaces for people to eat for free. So Copenhagen is doing that Atlanta, Georgia, they have a 7.1 acre food forest. And if you don't know what a food forest is, it's a food forest where everything is edible from the strawberries that grow on the ground to the nut trees that are growing above and everything in between. You can wander through the forest, you can pick what you need, you can eat it. I believe, so it's plant each share. So it's planning food, eating. It's like putting on your oxygen masks first. You help yourself to what you need, but then you share what you have with others. It's also a way to build community. There is this group, they're called Incredible Edible. I was these two women, they noticed that a lot of people were out of work and were hungry and they started gorilla planning, which is Ron Finley. It's what he does. He is the gorilla gardener on the planet, but they started planning food and they became known for like, like sharing food with others. People now fly from around the world to go to this town to see what they're doing and to model it. So I thought, well, why don't I put a program together, pull together all these different programs, put it into a database and then put an experiential marketing campaign around it to inspire and motivate people to get their community together and to start planting food. And that's it in a nutshell. And I, it's based on the belief and change food is, is founded on the belief that solutions already exist. People know how to solve their own problems and we can't tell people what to do. What we can do is we can educate, give information, inspire and share resources and materials. So that's sort of what planning to share is. Does that make sense? Yeah. It's a, it's also a lot of food sharing as well. Right. Or is that another aspect of a program that you do? No food. The food sharing is the share part of planning to share, but it's also like seed savings, seed swapping. And I actually included community fridges. That's not actually growing the food, but I think they are crucial. And what's also really important to me that I don't hear people talk about too much is loneliness and isolation. It's an epidemic. By doing these types of programs, communities come together. So people, people are able to connect within their local area and to feel that they belong to something. And I think more attention needs to be paid. to the people that are living in the community. And that's a, that's a great aspect of the pandemic of loneliness that plagues the planet. It's, It's horrific. It's gotten really bad. How you can be. In a city, a mega city with millions of people, you know, and still be extremely lonely. Yeah. That's really, really sad. And I'm glad that you're addressing that because there are and actually come out of this thing that can be very detrimental to our health and mental stability if we don't have that social interaction and that help to kind of stimulate or change the loneliness factor. So I love that you addressed that. What's the name you also have a talk show as well a video talk show and tell us a little bit more or tell us about that because you haven't mentioned it yet. So it's called change food eats. It's the first and third Tuesday of every month. I'm sure Mark you're every week. I couldn't handle the schedule because it's so much work. People think it's so easy to do these it's so much work. I'm just inviting people on in the food movement and we're having lunch. Sometimes we actually put the food in our mouth but the whole it's all based around being laid back having conversation and just this is going to this is going to contradict itself. I'm not a believer in just talk anymore, but I do believe that talk can inspire action. So I'm learning through the people I'm speaking with about other ways I can take action with what I'm doing and hopefully we can inspire the audience to hear things and to take action. I also and I mentioned this to Mark before we started. This is a very large goal but I would like to be the Graham Norton of food. I think that the food movement can be very serious. I think that we need to have a little more levity and not minimize the seriousness of the issues. But to realize that we're all in this together and if we can't laugh at it how can we live. Yeah, I agree. And I am. I think you're going to be the Diane of gravity and food and you don't need to be the Graham Norton but I understand we're going to you. It is always a joy to speak to you and just the spirit and the feeling that you get. I see a beautiful book on the shelf behind you waste is that Chris Brown Stewart's book way. Yes I had him on the show. He actually showed up in his pajamas on the show and talk about brevity or light. He just came as he was and I said do you want to put on some clothes. No that's fine that's okay and his hair wasn't even done and but it was one of the most fabulous podcasts deep dive. Wonderful exchange about his book first book bloodless revolution which is like the devil of a Bible read and and then about waste and about some things that he's been doing with toast on that so that's beautiful to see your wonderful food bookshelf behind you and and you have yeah there's probably a mix of other things behind there but you have a somehow amassed this knowledge or this breadth around food did it come from somewhere did you study this as it just been over time is it because you're an eater. How did you get to this point in time. So, this might sound a little roundabout but there's a point. So, I got my master's degree in creative writing. I've been living in London came back to the states I'm like, what am I going to do. I'm like, Oh, I've always loved music, I'll work in the music industry, while I write fiction. So, back to you all moved to New York, got like dream job at a record company within a week of being here which people said was impossible. Nothing is impossible. Just try. Did it for like a year and I was like, Yeah, when I did for 10 years actually I was in the music industry. Anyway, I was working at a corporate label, and the CFO called me and he said we're never going to promote you here. I was like, Wow. So I'm like, I got to go. So I just answered a blind out in the newspaper ends it up in a nonprofit that it just started and I was an advocate, you can say activist, helping shut down factory farms. So that was in 1998. I knew nothing. I didn't know what a nonprofit was. I knew nothing about environment. I mean, I, you know, I cleaned houses to pay help pay for books for college like I do not interning. Like I have to get paid. You know, I just didn't have that background so I once I got into the nonprofit world and I got into doing what I did and I did it for a couple years and anybody who knows anything about factory farms there are people. They are saints and angels around the world who are trying to help hold factory farmers count accountable and shut them down. It is thankless. It is depressing. You deal with with with people who have brain damage from the hydrant sulfide and just these to the manure the pollution. Anyway, after a couple years, I said to the funder you know this is very depressing. I don't think we're ever going to be able to reach your average consumer so can I do a shift and work on solutions. And I had found that this program called sustainable table, which in its day was very successful. This is back in like 2003. I did this animation called the matrix, which in its day one tons of awards it was it was considered the most successful online advocacy film ever, not bragging just that this is this is back. It took six months to find someone who could take a flash animation and put it on a DVD. Like that's how old no social media had been invented yet. Like this is this is so I, I am a student of the streets. I mean I learned what I learned. What I have seen is back then consumers didn't know enough to care so I and others like me and then there were only like 50 or 100 of us so we sort of knew each other. We worked on getting organic to be a household name to getting organic and grocery sources to getting consumers to care about the food. One thing I like to explain to younger people is they didn't come out of their mother's womb wanting healthy food. It was the work of not just me the people, people who came way before me, who were really promoting what we now call regenerative food. So, this is a very long answer, but I get very excited. I want it. I want the long answer. So, as I, as I did sustainable table. And then this is when I met Daniel Gould, I met Daniel Gould just as she started food tech net. I started seeing that Silicon Valley was starting to invest in foods and food startups started him big thing I thought, Oh, this would be great if we could educate the entrepreneurs and the founders of these food startups to know what healthy sustainable organic food is then as they grow into these big conglomerates they'll do everything the right way. Well that didn't work. Yeah, they just, when you get into DC, so I am a, and I don't have it in my bio I guess I may mentor to a food accelerator also because very interested in getting into that aspect of the food space. I think right now, the food tech says I'm talking all the like Sir Kensington's I know Scott Norton he's absolutely amazing. You know the companies that have come out I met Matt Clifford who has born Anna and then I met Ted active. Amazing, these people are amazing. And then, and most of their hearts are in the right way. I have been to conferences where the investors want to make money. They don't give a crap about the environment they don't give a crap about. That's where you can get me on a soapbox and you can get me. So, I still think a challenge is how do we get the whole food tech food startup do not get me on 3D printed ravioli or CRISPR. I don't even want to get into GMO because I will grant on forever. Why do we need to change something that is already perfect. The planet, the earth, the systems know how to grow food they know how to grow themselves. A forest knows what to do in a forest we don't need to commit and spread chemicals on it like. So I think there is a lot of work that needs to be done to bring the separate sides of the movement like there is the food tech movement. There's the food food movement, and then there are the foodies. And we're not all in line with each other. And I think that's one of the big challenges and and coupled with that is with climate change coming with growing hunger and instability we don't have time just to talk anymore. What do you think about all that Mark. I am full alignment but it's it's really what you've unpacked is that it's multifaceted complex system and that yes there's foodie chefs, food innovations agriculture animal farming there's logistics for food there's how we process how we produce how we preserve, how we transport how we grow what the emissions I mean it's on and on the food waste aspect. All those things are so complex and that really it's really great transition into my first question for you. Kind of on the journey of our of our discussion today is so you you mentioned these whether food tribes or food groups that are just also not always in full alignment with each other, or not on the same page or don't see the big vision that you're trying to bring together get to work together trying to figure out a future of food. I believe it ties to even bigger picture and that is, are you a global citizen. And how would you feel about a world without nations borders divisions of humanity. Whether whether it's you or in general because and I'll and I'll explain why I'm asking you that question. Okay, so wait you're asking me if I'm a global citizen so I consider or feel yourself like a global citizen and how would you feel about a world without nations divisions borders, especially those separations of humanity from one another and especially nature. Yes, I consider myself a global citizen. I would rather say, I separate the world into assholes and not assholes. But I would rather say into people who understand and people who haven't understood don't understand yet. I think borders are relevant. I think bureaucracy, you know, borders just create create bureaucracies. I think that it's arrogant of me to assume that I know what's going on in the global south. So, even though I am a global citizen and I support things happening around the world. I believe in the local. So, act locally, but exist globally. I love the belief that we need people who can bring together what people are doing successfully, especially with climate change. I think a lot of people don't understand how much is going to change, because the climate is changing that's, you know, what kind of food is produced, where people are going to live water is going to become more scarce, and it already is this is already happening we're going to have migration. So there are countries that think, oh, we have no problem we have all the spotter we're going to have 20 million people that are going to want to come into your country because they can't live in theirs anymore. And I think that we need to look at that globally. We also need, I think most people get extremely overwhelmed. If you look at the whole planets, we have to break it down. What I think is really crucial is that people understand that they do make a difference and each choice they make the butterfly effect, each choice they make can affect the entire planet. And that is something I don't think people have in their DNA. So so that's probably what I am passionate about. Sort of getting people to understand that that every purchase you make every even thought you think every positive every thank you every. I believe so I don't I don't know the chemicals. So not as scientists but you know people get addicted to harm violence and they want more and more and more. If it bleeds the league, the amygdala of our brain. But if you also, if you do an act of kindness, that is also contagious. I mean, I took a cab home once there was $10 on the floor. And I gave it to the cab driver he's like no no no George my dude it's your cab keeps the money got to my destination. Get out give him he's like no no no this is on me. So I gave him $10 but he gave me over $20 in a free cab ride. That to me is a microcosm of what life is is that you do kindness there is but I think that's oxytocin or you know I don't know what brain chemicals. But that also feeds on itself so we need to get people addicted to the oxytocin not the amygdala adrenaline negative stuff and I think that's how we create it and you do that by buying your elderly neighbor a quart of milk, knocking on the door to see if they're okay. That's how we change. That's how I believe we change the world. I agree. I agree. I'm in line and I, I have a lot of scientists or authors or people who are called these specialists or experts in the areas on the show and sometimes when I ask them that question I'm not qualified to answer that sorry and, you know, or, you know, and you just basically opened your heart you told me how you think how you feel how you see it and and and that yes you are, but you don't know how people in the deep south or in south are and so I appreciate that honesty and that view. The reason it's kind of leading I'm leading on this journey and I want to unpack and explain a little bit to it during the pandemic. Our air, our water was a global citizen the species and animals that cross borders and nations they are global citizens are the pandemic as a global citizen food as a global citizen. If we look at the, the United Kingdom, or yeah, the United Kingdom and look at the footprint around the world of where they get their food sources for the United Kingdom that that travel to the United Kingdom to then be consumed in the United Kingdom that footprint is quadruple the size of the United Kingdom around other parts of the world. You know, whether it's bananas from South America, or foods from Russia, or potatoes from Russia or foods from, you know, different parts of the world. What is a global citizen going to be people who really, in some respects are in lockdown, they're not being treated like global citizens. And what we've seen during this. What I think is very dynamic is that they're, and even before in some of our nationalistic political views and I want to get political either is that some decisions are being made around the world by the Trump apocalypse is the both scenarios the Putin shades and whoever else it is that affect us globally that affect the air as we breathe in the waters we drink globally. So, I find it really hard for us not to think that we're, we're a global citizen or that we should move to that direction as not only politically, but as humanity that we're all crew members of spaceship Earth, we can all take a hand and put our hand on the steering wheel and go and guide our future in a local way we can do it very locally which has a big huge ripple effect globally I mean there's no way you can tell me that the Amazon forest burning in Brazil, don't affect us all over the world, the fires in Australia the things that are going on in Brexit affect all of us all around the world, maybe not immediately but eventually. If you absolutely don't feel like a global citizen, then please do not any eat any foods that are not produced locally that are not made locally, because if they're transported from South America if they're transported from China or wherever, then don't take part in those global goods. Because that is truly a global system is the ability to move goods around the globe but it's also the ability that we get that in the same way and that's some of my opinions and I don't want to force them on you at all but I would like to not only have our listeners and kind of maybe see if you have any other thoughts on this I like this term local you know this and you you mentioned it as well as vision globally that we understand on the big planet that we're on think globally but act very locally and and through that process not only we're taking care of ourselves but we're also protecting human health and environment in that process of thinking and acting that way. And that's also where we want to go eventually we want to get back to a system of of farm the fork type of a system where it's really local and regional, most of our cities and you heard you've heard me say this before. The Florarian society is over 12,000 years old as the oldest and most longest running successful economy in our world. And it was the built up of cities and cultures and nations and beautiful things and now today. Sorry to say, Diane. Cities are a place that food goes to die. It's such a sad thing. My God. If you know anything about agriculture and how it works those nutrients those my vitamins and minerals that come from the soil. They get put into our food and then they get delivered to the cities or they get consumed. And back in the day, our poop are are those those rest nutrients by composting used to go back to the soils of the farm today that cycle's been broken though those those food goes to cities to die. Instead of keeping that circular system that global system of getting back to where it needs to be and so that's why I really like. When we get this local get the food to go back to the cities, the nutrients to go back to the farms that we keep this this system moving and I think more of a this global or crew member of you as a nicer way and I hope, hopefully I've gotten off tangent but that's kind of why I was leading you in that question and I appreciate your honest response because you cannot believe some of the responses I've had over over the years when I ask that question. I would 10 years ago I might have agreed with you about food comes to cities to die. I don't anymore. I'm going to add active and advocate for composting like I promise. When I go to my farmer's market, I see the bins of food, people are dropping off once a week, one of the unfortunate effects of the pandemic is most of the composting it's not but this very large apartment complex had like 20 composting bins outside and you weren't supposed to put your stuff in but I would join the week. I think that there's a bigger problem, because I think it's 40% less nutritious food is now about 40% less nutritious and it was like the 1940s and 1950s so you have to eat four or six apples to get the nutrition of one apple so that's not about coming to a city. So, I hear what you're saying, but I think that people need to understand the industrial revolution is dead. The industrial revolution is over, we are in a regenerative or restorative revolution and if you don't know that yet, you're going to soon, or we're going to die, basically. What I think is really important, forget the politicians, forget the multinational, honestly, my take is, they're not going to change until they're forced, forced to change. The only way they're going to be forced to change is that each person make decisions locally in their house in their kitchen that advocates for the future they want to see, and that's where I think it'll change. People say, oh, you know, you deliver their change in their ways and this and that, and you know what they are, they are, but they're so big and so slow, we can't sit around and wait for them. So, I try not to buy their products, their products, I look for who's making stuff locally and go out of my way, I shop at a local bakery, I look for the independent stores. And that's, I know that's me, some people like oh well Walmart so easy. Hey look, you got to go there, you got to go there, but then once a week, find a local baker, not only will you be helping your local economy. You're going to understand how much better the food tastes you're going to understand what real food is again like I had. And they had like Debbie's donuts or enemies donut something like that like a package store product and I'll shop in those kinds of stores so I don't even know but I bit into one and I literally spit it out I'm like this is not food. This is not food. So, we not only need to get people to understand that this is where like I come in and where I'm really passionate about, we have to make it equal. I'm very fortunate that I can shop at my local organic health food store. Not many people can. So what can I do to help other people. This is where I think planning shares really important. I think that through that planning a food in local areas people can gain skills in marketing a product like leftover food from these gardens can go to making pasta sauce so people can start their own businesses, they can get people and they can get skills and then they can get a better wage that we have to get into living wages and it gets bigger and bigger so don't get overwhelmed. Just choose something your neighbor, I had a neighbor she doesn't live for anymore she had a cookie company. So, and they would sell them in the deli downstairs because she got them so I would go down stairs to the deli and I would make sure I bought her cookies. That was my radical act of kindness, let's say for the day, we can all do that I don't care where you live I don't care. I don't care. We can all do something like that. Absolutely we can. Yeah, I love your positive spin on that and I, I, I agree there are some cities where it's really good. New York is good or not everywhere in New York but some villages and districts are really good about composting and putting that out. And we're getting better that shift is moving and I want to shift your thinking Mark, I think a lot of you need to dead before it gets to the city for absolutely you know we need to go back to that. I also think, you know, people tend to judge people in lower income areas who don't have access to healthy food oh they're just eating fast food no they're eating, and they have no choice. People want to eat healthy. How could we find ways to make that happen. A friend of mine Steve Ritz Green Bronx machine you should totally interview him. He's amazing. He in schools grows food, and he has a farm, and it's free they can't they've handed out his wife alone this season, hands it out 100,000 pounds of food. They're in the Bronx, he wears the cheese hat right. Yes, he's a cheese hat man. Yeah, he's a cheese hat man yeah I matter of fact I posted. He just has got a nice little movie or trailer coming out. Yes, this film well yes this film trailers out yeah the film's coming out soon isn't it. Yeah, yeah he's having a premiere. Yeah, I was checking out the. Early posted that he's a great man he was matter of fact the I think it was 2018. He was on a panel that I did a siege and chips a panel, a group panel of talks that I did there as well and he spoke as well and he's doing amazing things not only people after my own heart kids and that's where we really need to get it and connect kids back to food and understanding he's doing fabulous work. So I go ahead. No I want to, I want to take that triggers that triggers another thought because you just got done interviewing a fabulous as a director producer for gather a movie on your show Sanjay, and I want to have to say I've got a little bit of, I don't know, envy or lust I love Jason my God he's got the best beard and the best hair I you know I would say I'm a cross between Jesus and Farah Farah Fawcett but my goodness that man's got some hair and I know I just like him I think he's a nice guy. But he's been, I think he's doing something with the indigenous tribes. At one of the protests where they're on the road blocking the road in that movie gather I think that I love that interview and that figured that, you know, I don't know if you want to say something about that but you have fabulous people that are doing amazing things and raising awareness on your show. That that I would like all my listeners to go support plant each share and join your community and bring it to the local also what you're doing with Boma eats and because there's a plethora of wisdom and people who are just grassroots bottom up who are doing amazing things that that need to be done there so need to be seen and applied into action because it's not just a one size fits all it's not just one thing that you can do. There are so many things we could do and there's so many tools out there we just have to know what they are and where to find them and and apply the ones that fit best to us and then once we've got a solid foundation we're doing good then we can ripple out to our community and cities and grow and move it and so I that that's just one when we mentioned that. Mr cheese hat man that really trigger me of what the fabulous work you're doing. Oh, you're so kind. Okay, a couple things because you're getting me on a soapbox and I am getting ready to roll. Okay, so cheese hat man that Steve Ritz. Now the thing about Steve and this is what I have seen and listen I'm in the same I don't seem in the same situation from a very similar situation. People like him work their ass off 24 seven and they don't get funding. People with big, well funded nonprofits can come and get their picture with him, and then they use that to get funding for themselves. So, the nonprofit industrial complex funding complex needs to be dismantled or overridden philanthropists have to start to understand that they have a stake in this game too. And just saying oh I'm going to give $10 million to hunger. That's not necessarily solving the problem because it's usually going to one, maybe two nonprofits, and I believe that when any company gets to a certain size, it spins wheels, and it just exists to exist. So solving the problem doesn't become the goal. The goal comes to become becomes just to exist to exist. So I think that we need nimbler organizations, nimbler companies, I personally believe I don't know about other countries but here in the US, everyone should become a corporation becoming like an independent contractor start your own business, get incorporated, it helps tax wise, and then hire contractors higher like minded people who have their own companies when you need them. I think that saves resources, and that helps you stay nimble. It's it's the Oh, I just filled out a funding letter of inquiry, it took a week and a half, at least eight hours a day to answer these questions and this is just a letter of inquiry. They said, you'll hear back in two days. It's been over two weeks. I haven't even heard a no that is so infuriating. I'd rather go work for the man. You know what I mean, like I have these days. Yeah. So the second thing with Jason Momoa did you see the Trevor Noah interview with him recently about the film. That was amazing. It's amazing. So, Sanjay Rao is the director. He was the person I interviewed on my show. I knew him first from TEDx Manhattan and his film food chains, which was about tomato pickers and everything that they go through tomatoes from Florida folks look into it. But this film is about Native Americans reclaiming the food culture. Trevor Noah brought this up and I was the same way I didn't realize that the US government used food and taking away Buffalo, which was the major food source for a lot of Native Americans as a way to decimate the population. So there are Native Americans around the country that are starting to reclaim the food culture foraging and I am so inspired. This film is so great. I think anybody who has any interest in an Indigenous culture, especially people in the US should definitely watch this film. And Sanjay, he got unheard of access. He's of Indian descent of the country, India, and the Native Americans he spoke with welcomed him in because I think his father came from India. He understands the immigrant experience. So it's a really well done amazing film. I can't speak enough about it. Yeah, I'll post that in the show notes as well. Okay, so third thing what to do. Everyone can do something. You and I were at a certain level. Honestly, just like compost research it just look at what is composting how can I compost. I would suggest if you start leave the food in your freezer. If you're only taking it somewhere once a week because it can really stink. But people get like, and I'm not putting worms under my kitchen sink some people really get excited about the vermo composting thing. Everybody can do something just by local and I know that's that's become a catchphrase and it's overused. But but it's exciting to find an entrepreneur living on your street or in your neighborhood, who was started a company like like I would think anybody would want to support that. The other thing I want to mention is don't you might feel differently. Don't worry about the big the big like overhanging fruit you want you want you want to do things on the bottom like I am not top down. I'm actually anti top down the only way the top changes and I'm talking government I'm talking multi nationals large corporations. The only way they change is when they're forced to change and the way they're forced to change is by consumers and voters. So people, I think the most important thing and I think I hope there are people working on this is getting people to understand that you matter. Every breath you take matters, and I'm not choking. I know you're not, even though that's you're not fulfilling your your median. Pledge to me on the show so far you're being too serious. Oh, okay, that's my show. That's your show. No, that's great. So you there, there's if I'm not supposed to bring this up to just tell me to shut up and I'll move on to the next question. But you have a love for animals and there's this dog sitting that you do with beaker once in a while but did that has that always been that way or did it come from your time against these animal agriculture farms, your love for animals or was it always there before and then how how was that evolved or developed and does that play a big role in what you do or as well. Wow, I never really thought about it. I don't think it came from the factory farm work. It came about, I had adopted a dog, and I knew nothing about dogs. So I didn't even think to do research. I just assumed all dogs were good dogs and dogs can adapt. Anyway, eight months later, the dog couldn't live in New York City. He just lunged after everything hated men like he would just ground trying like he he did that to to like two three year old twins are walking down the street and so I had to give him up, and I can still cry, because I love that dog so much. So, to get through it, I started fostering so beakers just one of my fosters, I foster animals. When I can and some people can have a dog. I think that a lot of people shouldn't have dogs in a city because you can't give them time I traveled a lot so I could take a dog for a month to week six weeks after six weeks like I just would be to mobile. I, I mean just to be completely transparent, you know, I was dealing with loneliness and isolation, and you want to do you want to think of a way get a cat or a dog dog, especially I'm not. I love cats and not a cat person I'm sorry to all you cat people out there, but if you want to understand unconditional love. Get a dog. So I think I get more out of it than the dogs do most times. And there is nothing to me there is nothing more moving and satisfying than taking in a dog that is so traumatized, and it takes about four or five days. And like one day, they just perk up, and you'll see like a light in their eyes and then like by two weeks, they they're just a different being that they come from just like broken souls back into these just loving just beautiful, even the ones that step beaker, like his owners. So I, I offer free dog sitting to any of the fosters I had so every now and then I'll get a foster back. The adapters and I think that he was horrifically abused at night so at night to get very snappy. So even though he snaps at you, you just have to love the star like he's so anyway. So, not connected. But I think that we each. Again, I'm going to go back to isolation and disconnection I think that I think I had heard that the militia groups in Michigan, etc, that one of the reasons they're forming is that people feel disconnected and isolated so I think there needs to be serious effort put into how to bring people together to me. I would actually before the pandemic, a couple of times a month, I would take puppies into offices around Manhattan so these like advertising accounting law firms, and we go into a conference room with like four or five puppies and then people would come in and just get to play with the puppies, and it socializes the dogs, but to watch people stiff in their suit whatever come in and be around a puppy you can just see, you can just see their muscles relaxing. Yeah, it's fabulous. There, I've seen in Hamburg in Germany, especially tons of not just startups but tons of companies when they list their team or their employees always have like a cat or dog. Somehow on the on the website as well when you go into the offices you see that much more and there is a lot of things to that I mean it's not. It's everywhere and I'm surprised we even see it in Germany because sometimes they're so rigid and stiff on their quality and how they do that, that you can tell those are some pretty progressive work environments and believe it or not there's been a lot of books one of them is Tim Laborix book on the business romantic it was done in English and German and a couple other languages I think 12 other languages, but he's a big Ted, Ted speaker as well couple million views but he speaks on this you know, the way of doing business and then there's Frederick la Lou who's also. I think he's Belgian, but he lives. He speaks German as well he wrote the book reinventing organizations and things that this the future of work the future of life and how we do business and I believe these small medium enterprises the startups the social entrepreneurs, you're speaking about, you know, start a business get started not only for the tax and other benefits but the benefits of how that can, you can make an impact to change a difference. While these big wonky organizations who were sometimes frustrated with the small medium organize enterprises organizations we can see come in and actually while they're trying to make the curve will eat those organizations lunch and disrupt industries. There's some innovations and some different ways of thinking, you know the regenerative ad movement and a Rodale Institute and other things is coming from nowhere but as a huge power horse now that is very agile and quick and and and making a lot of organizations in ways of doing things, take up stand up and take notice and really say hey, we've got to listen if they don't get on board with a change or do that they're going to be gone they're not they're not going to be something that we need to worry about in the future. It leads me to my biggest question, scariest question for you be fearful. It's the burning question WTF and in this decade of action 2020 a lot of us are like WTF yeah I've said that 100 times this year because of the pandemic. What's the future. I want to know what's what's the future, at least for you in your community what's the future. That's a very big question. I believe the future is what we make of it. To me an astrophysicist. I was told girls can't do math I saw an interview with the woman that just won the Nobel Prize in chemistry and she said I was told women can't do math and I said screw that I'm doing math. I went the other way and I didn't have that career but I've always been very interested in physics and spirituality. I'm saying this because everything is energy. That table is not solid, it's energy. So our perceptions, the energy would put, we put out is creates our future I think. I think the future is both written and unwritten say I mean I can get very philosophical on this. So, the future for me is one in which my life, and every day is filled with gratitude. That gratitude is abundance. And through that abundance is joy. And that's the universe I choose to live in. And I think each of us has that choice to create our own future. Thank you. Okay, I don't want to even add to. So that's that's exactly, that was the right answer just ding ding ding. You've won the prize. That was the right answer. Thank you for that so a lot of a lot of times people. One. It's the first time they've ever asked themselves that question what's the future. And pretty much every time it's a different answer. The reason I asked is I genuinely want to know from you what the future is but I also want to know how will you know yourself and how well you thought about that question in the future so that, and I can see in your life and what I know behind the scenes which I don't reveal to any of my listeners that I know that you've got a nice plan for the future of where you're going and I'm excited to be partnered with you on a few things and to be able to observe it and to know you. I now want to go into a couple other things so how, how well are you burst in this, this, this energy this basic element of life that we're all part of a symbiotic earth or that we're all built up of microbes and micro organism and micro organisms micro cells micro organ cells and that there's a strong tie to our biome and the symbiotic earth and the biome of our body and our gut and how we're built up as human being. Well, I just had my second, my second micro gut microbiome analysis done so I wouldn't say I'm well versed in it, but I'm gaining experience. And what I did things I didn't know. The first time I had it done I had a apple pit virus. Who knew that viruses that that fruits and vegetables get on trees can get into your gut. And I think that, again, everything is interconnected so what I put in my body affects the universe I mean we can get into the whole we really are all from stardust like we are all connected. We are, we are live long and prosper. Probably why I'm a huge sci fi fan yes. But I think that people. I think a lot of people have lost their connection with themselves and they busy themselves with material and outward. And I don't want to say that's wrong. I think that's a that's just a byproduct of many people's society in which they grew. I think that if one wants to find happiness or peace. One has to look inward, and that does even include knowing what what bacteria are swimming around in your gut like right now I have a cucumber virus. So I can't eat cucumber. And the whole microbiome thing with the personal health is also very new, like it's, it's, I don't want to say it's hit or miss but I do think it's a way to go I think it's a way to cure depression I think the other thing I'm really into. Brandy got into health stuff now intermittent fasting. Intermittent fasting is like, and I don't want to get on to because fads, you know, it's not a fad. So many medical things I've had my A1C improve. I just got back from the doctor my thyroid and medication has been drastically reduced, and it's often intermittent fasting and I'm not, I need to change some of what I'm eating. I'm not changing what I mean like it's my birthday on Sunday. And I got a gluten free cake I ordered for myself and I'm just eating that thing. So I think that we are all connected to the earth to each other to the stars. And I think that through that, it would. I through that I hope that more people can help people understand that they are not alone and they are connected to everyone and everything, and that I spent a lot of time learning that if someone is mean or someone is rude or someone does something. If they're being violent, angry, that person is hurting, and that they're not really trying to hurt me. They're just expressing their pain because they don't know what to do. I think food affects people's moves. So again, it's all interconnected. All the world's problems are way worse. That's what this podcast is about the deep dive we want to solve the global ground challenges and get into the depth and substance. I mean, I. You make me smile you make me smile so much when you give those answers because so our micro biome our gut health are our the microbes in our stomach that help us digest food and that we really need for health. Our own personal biome they're calling it the second brain it really drives us it affects us not only emotionally as loneliness depression health problems but it also is a second brain that has taken a lot of decisions believe it or not on how we act and how we treat other people how we how we interact with this world, but it's also very closely tied to the biome of our planet. So good soil health healthy biome in our soils and our planetary biome as in many respects. In 2015 that United Nations FAO said we have 60 harvests left and on traditional agriculture will just give you the update it's 45 harvests now we've actually had some other incaminations and problems and now that have actually accelerated that we have 45 harvest left and boy that's, it's scary because it's closely tied to the biome of our gut and how we can maintain and nurture and keep that that help for humanity and that's a big issue there and So to go back to a little bit that this overview effect or this cosmic perspective Carl Sagan said we are all star stuff that we're made from the interior of collapsing stars that the the calcium and and our apple pies and that you know you went down and broke it all down that it's the same thing that's from star stuff is the same thing in our earth is the same thing and the basic elements of human body and what was really crazy. I'm going to talk about a salsa Sagan. Well Sagan's daughter on my podcast and talk to her about it, but Carl Sagan's first wife, when Margolis is the scientists that disrupted the higher system of biology and micro organisms and she discovered micro risa and the different bacteria. The basics of human life and came up with this term the symbiotic earth and symbiosis basically, and it's so interesting you know he gave us this term you know we are all star stuff where, you know stars and how we're tied to earth and then he gave us this about the symbiotic earth micro risa micro organisms and now the last few years it wasn't till 2015 as well that we discovered this whole new branch on the three of life these micro organisms and you know that before we didn't know existed, but they all within our own body they're our gut health and you know you said it's not really a trend or that it's just this human collective intelligence with knowledge that we're starting to figure out you know how we work and what things are going so I love hearing the fact that you that you've had it done twice and that you realize the importance and you know a simple things that we're doing that you know there's an apple that says you're going to get this issue with your gut you know because the the the interior seeds of an apple core or a cucumber that is dealing with your bio you know but that comes from the food that we eat, which is your food which you've mentioned many times the most basic cellular breakdown level of our energy of our planet is a caloric intake it's calorie it's food it's what we eat to drive our body temperature keep it regulated and keep our body motor running you know and okay you brought up a trigger word okay calorie do 100 calories of M&M's equal 100 calories of broccoli I think the cold concept of calories is outdated it is but I think the term caloric intake I'm just saying is a measurement of energy and it's about humanity's basic energy I'm also not calorie counting and all that that's it's a bunch of who we but if we break it down though it's our energy sources like it's like you would never buy a cell phone and not know we're going to charge the battery or change the battery you'd never buy a car not know we're going to get gas you'd never you know you've got to keep that thing going well we we didn't purchase this body but we were born with it by damn we forgot now guarantee where we're going to get the best food the best fuel for our engine to keep our body running long and healthy with longevity we've given that stewardship over to 10 big corporations and you know done a lot of horrible things and I don't want to get into that this humanity starts to make those connections which you've all touched upon during this point is so vital and so I would just I'd love for you to get on your soapbox again or maybe dissect anything that I've just touched upon if that's touched a nerve or if you find that interesting as well or maybe we can depart some wisdoms to our listeners. One thing I would like people to understand is when we talk about soil health, you know and it does help improve on the nutrition in the food but in studies that they've done people who live the longest the one thing they have in common is the garden. Microbes in healthy soil when you put your hands in the soil and you walk across the soil absorbs into your body that actually cures depression that actually like can help heal you and it is its own form of nutrition so take off your shoes and walk. And I know that might sound simple but I also think that simple solutions build to big solutions. I think that people. I get I don't want to speak for anyone else. I get overwhelmed. You know I do this all day long. I just know a lot by osmosis because I've been around this world for so long. I still want to shut down some days just want to shut down and eat cake. I think that people need to realize. This is fun. There are a lot of people doing it. And that you're it. It's your health to take it personally it's your neighbor's health and it's your planet's health. If you are having children or have children or have grandchildren, and you want them to have a world. Just have a world, not a world better or like yours just a world, then you need to start sitting up and taking note of this. Now, I fault us for this mark. What I grapple with, and what I've been trying to do. I've been doing this for over 20 years. I thought that by now, people would understand the issues, and they don't. I had a very good friend who has a garden who's into healthy food, just emailed me and said, art is organic food. Can it be GMO can be genetically engineered with no, you know, blah, blah, blah, but you know she'd ask some questions like oh I have to Google that I can't remember because things you know obviously laws and regulations change but they've not done a good enough job, educating, or inspiring people enough to want to learn what they need to learn to do the right thing. And that I think is a huge hole in food and in changing food systems, and I think that. I'm so I mentioned earlier I'm tired of the nonprofit industrial complex. I'm also tired of nonprofits who say let's collaborate and collaborating only means promote my work, not collaborate. I think each person should do their own thing and come together and say hey I'm doing this hey I'm doing this how can we work together what and that is collaboration. I do I do not believe in 100% consensus, I think that is a huge problem it doesn't work but you're an expert in trees, you do your tree thing. I'm an expert in tomatoes, I do my tomato thing. Let's come together and see how they work, like what we can do to help and support each other. I don't think that happens. I fault foundations and I'm just talking nonprofit I fault foundations and philanthropists for even if they say they don't want to be making it competitive for them for people not being allowed to earn a living wage for not getting funding. I think that if you want to create change. You have to start with the crazy people who have the vision, who are not going to be funded and we're not going to be able to have a for profit. There needs to be a similarly minded crazy rich person to fund and invest. We need to be invested in maybe that's what I'm getting to we need to invest in visionaries and change makers, so that they can go out and inspire and do it needs to be done to read the change so, for example. One of the things I think we need that I have never seen. I think we need a database of who's doing what. Due to who David hurts is because you should totally have it on your show if we don't. Okay, so he founded social gastronomy movement, but people in my world don't know who he is because he's outside the US, but he's doing I just saw he's having a conference in October, and like some of the I just read before we came on I'm like signing up for panel after panel, because I want to know what's going on we, we can't do everything. We can find the people who are doing the things connect that all together. I believe we need a roadmap to the world we want to live in or see have our children live in. I do not believe that exists. I think the eat report the eat Lancet report. I looked at it and the food they recommend for an entire day is my snack, like it's just not going to work in the West. It was great what they did. I think they had a lot of so that's a piece. You know, so anyway, how are we going to build the roadmap. Mark. Well, I think I have a couple answers for you. So I believe that there is a roadmap I believe we're on the exponential roadmap to the future the roadmap for me is really the sustainable development goals I I know you know I'm an advocate for the sustainable development goals and I can't think of and I don't know of another global plan that gets us a little bit better to the future. December 2030 than the sustainable development goals and like the eat eat foundation eat form all 17 of the sustainable development goals are tied to food 11 of them are intrinsically tied to food. So I think that the markets and indicators a lot of ways that they were developed and I, I believe I don't see them for countries and organizations or cities I see them for us as individuals I see that we apply them in a local way because we all eat every day. And then we can have this bigger ripple effect that that goes much far as far reaching and it's actually very inclusive and it changes. It's not the SDGs are not an add on to business as usual what they are is a brand new economy global economy, brand new global operating system to get us to a sustainable infrastructure by December 2030. We really keep our planet below 1.5 degrees of warming and give us at least a solid enough foundation to springboard off into resilience and I think that is a big roadmap. Most people don't even know, especially in the US, especially in indigenous places. That's my question. Have no clue what what are the SDGs or how to apply them who they're for how to understand them what the monies are behind them how they can even look and view Adam. We've done a lot of work behind that we're we're behind I mean it's 2025 years after we're still talking and educating. I see us moving more in that exponential roadmap and that's what that's also why it's it needs to be exponential because if in the next five years we don't really take some hard actions and make some movement. Then, then we're really going to be way too late and far behind on it. I agree. That is a vision. I don't know if I agree it's a roadmap. I do think it's a vision to work toward the map are the routes that go to get us to that vision. Who is working on making it happen, not just talking about it because we can't. Especially in the US we can't stay in the education what are the SDGs like when I spent a bit of time in Copenhagen. Before the pandemic, and there they get it you know they seem to get it it's it's it's more than the DNA was in the US. I hadn't really heard of them until I started going to eat and, you know, though I do have to say I was part of a group that was asked when they were just getting ready to launch them here. I was like, yeah. And they weren't marketed properly to the American mindset, but this is the challenge I think I don't think we have time to educate so how do we incorporate what they are into what we're already doing. And I, I don't have a place I can go to say okay who's working on a CG to because when when when I see no hunger, people think food pantry. No, that's a stop gap that doesn't end hunger that helps people who are hungry, which is absolutely essential, absolutely essential. But how do we end hunger, and that gets into living wage that gets into you know gets into it's they're all and you know that's because this is your expertise, they're all interconnected. They're all interconnected. There's no way we'll have time to address all these because I have now you'll get me on my soapbox and I could talk days on sdgs roadmap plan and let's get it and you'll be so damn excited. You probably won't go to sleep tonight you'll be out shouting sdgs from the streets. You have to be careful I mean this this is a deep rabbit hole for me but because this is my passion, but but it was almost unfair because I mean I believe that's our roadmap or plan and there are not only targets and indicators and there's money and there's ways that we can get in there. But I also am a big advocate for global food reform and how do we do that from the bottom up a local level, and you know build these these resilient hubs around the world that are interconnected that are really bringing us up to different standard around the world but also the reason I say global food reform is as food has always been a global citizen that probably always will be. And if we can see each other, you know, stop being divided by borders nations and these political boundaries and get us into a bit, a global operating system where kind of all aligned. Then it will work better because that's just how we function as well as human beings and, and the complexities and science and. Other than that I mean right now I don't think it's because we're limited on time unless we're going to break this into about five podcasts. I would like to get into that discussion with you and also in the book will break it down a lot more. But there is a multifaceted the way we solve global trend grand challenges is by taking a multifaceted systems view approach to tackling these solutions and in 2018 all international organizations the UN World Economic Trade Organization on and on. I'll switch to this systems you approach a lot of life using systems dynamic modeling and solutions to solve our global grand challenges what what does that mean. One of the complex big exponential words and stuff is basically that this siloed or linear approach by just taking one facet of a complex problem and just addressing that has shown in the past that it's not solving our problems that we need to address the multifaceted as a system. We're seeing much better results on solving these these problems. The other thing that we're seeing is that it's also an exponential roadmap because what happens, not only the results at the end or much better, but that we reach this critical masses humanity this is a system that really works and is functioning well and we've got community we're not lonely we don't feel like the only evangelist or the preacher or soapbox speaker, but we're a community and then as we hit that critical mask we actually see the results better. And the biggest proof is in the pudding and I've said this on other podcasts so I'm not going to go into too much here, but during this time of the pandemic in the lockdown. In the first second and third quarters. In the financial quarters of this year. We've seen that all sustainable index funds sustainable investments and ESG or what they call environmental social governance index and funds divestment and investments have all outperform the conventional counterparts, eight out of 10 outperform the conventional counterparts. And in the Morningstar review 25 out of 28 outperform the conventional counting parts and the Morningstar review, and I'm talking about the Nikki New York Stock Exchange the Nathik, the SMP global the BlackRock came out the CEO BlackRock came out and listed all the CEOs in their portfolio he said, if you don't make a divestment or investment in ESG change the business models, the annual reports the divestment and investments towards ESG sustainable index and funds that environmental social governance ingrained, you will be punished, or you will be removed from the portfolio because that's the future that's where we're going. And the reason why is because it's a better business model it's a better operating system that shows that not only does it give you resilience it gives you a return and during this pandemic through all three quarters can the first quarter. It's really good, but you could say okay this is just a farce it's just the first quarter but then it went second and third quarter, and what what we're seeing is those essential services that you and I are talking about food, personal protection equipment, digital services. Hi Rocket they took the hockey stick approach on on their growth and their performance that was unbelievable and there's no sign of stopping and it's showing that before when I've been talking about sustainability and these things for a while. When you talk about it as basically. Oh, I'm not as sustainability is hard to do it's hard to make this reform and do the right thing as costly. And maybe before 2015 maybe before 2010, it was, but it's not anymore and it's actually a better model, and to be sustainable, it means to sustain your company your brand your employees yourself for future generations to have enough resources to continue producing a product to have a sustainable supply chain that in times like a pandemic, you can still have food and services and delivery and get those things because you've got those future of work in place, and so that that's my soapbox I don't want to get on to it but there's some real proof that it's better business model in our industry the Rodeo Institute and many others just came out with kids to ground and some other beautiful things they're showing that these regenerative these permacultures the agro forestry and no kill a better business model and much better for human health and our environment. And we make those switches and in all these areas boy the future is bright and and we hit that critical mass. There's no going back. I don't know if you have anything to say. So, I consider myself, you know, smart enough, not super intelligent but there is one thing I never got was finance. But one thing I did when I years ago was working in companies and started my retirement accounts like I once the state of the funds at once stated like I just, this is the four even really was working in this world. I was just deep rooted within me, like I didn't want to give to nuclear arms dealers. But I think what people need to realize is that when you talk about these funds having great returns, that's because people are buying the products which is making you do better on the stock market which is making investing being better. And it's, it's all interconnected so you can, you can wind it all the way back to each of us sitting in our chair, making the decision to invest or to buy that healthier thing. With regard to regenerative I think for Dale is amazing, like I love them. I heard, I can't, I think it's Pelican, there's an investment fund in the UK, and it's all a lot of money that's going into regenerative. I don't know the same here. There was a film out this past year called biggest, or is last year biggest little farm. It's on Netflix now it's amazing as a piece of art. One thing unfortunately they don't address is how much money it cost to transition to regenerative. That's the big summoning block so how do we encourage investors to put their money into regenerative this can come down to triple bottom line. Maybe you're not going to get 50% return maybe you'll get a 30% return. Well, you'll have better karma, you'll sleep better and your next life will be much happier. I mean, you know how do you convince people that this is, if you, again, I'm going to get back to if you want your children, or your grandchildren to have a planet. People have to start taking this seriously. I wish more people with vision and passion with the people with all that money. Yeah, I do too. There's a lot of people out there with money but no ideas no vision or passion. And, and that's a big shift we definitely need to make and that they, they put that into long term really sustainable projects and and companies that can really help us for the long time. I've seen that time and time again such beautiful wonderful projects ideas people who really know if they had the money they'd know what to do with it and it would be a fabulous investment and it would be good for the triple bottom line people and profit it'll be, it would really be go to good but it just is still very slow moving. It is picked up. So we, we, I, like I said at the beginning of this year this year started out with a bang it was very fabulous I was on my tour to Davos, DLD and Boma, we did an event and, and the world economic form. And there was a lot of sustainable and noble ambitions that the beginning of this year and they've actually have not stopped momentum it's gotten even more and people have doubled down tripled down, and, and we're still moving in a positive way is, and it's going to continue so I'm very hopeful and optimistic that we're going to go in that way. I have. We've got to wrap it up soon but I have three questions for you last questions for you and they're really for my listeners. So I want to give my listeners a sustainable take away from you that maybe can help them or give you, you can depart some of your wisdom to them. If there is one message you could depart to our listeners a sustainable take away that has the power to change their life. What would it be it's basically your message. You matter, no matter who you are, where you are, what you've done, you matter every decision you make every breath you take everything you do, you matter so if you want to be part of creating the world we want to see, just think about what you're doing and and understand that that decision to buy the, you know, seventh generation unbelief toilet paper matters. And I think we need we, you and I mark, and people like us need to work harder to get consumers to understand everyone as a consumer to understand that everything you do is important. Everything, and that I think is something we need to work harder at letting people understand and not just that people matter through that you are connected to everything. And I think I'm just going to leave it there like we really love it is true. And, you know, yeah, I'm not going to add anything to that I think you I think you summarize that beautifully and it true everybody does matter. I like to say that we're all crew members on Spaceship Earth that we can really put our hand on the steering wheel and not just steer where our future goes of the earth, but that we matter that we can do anything, you know, try, and you heard this before, by sleeping in a room with a small mosquito, I guarantee you that small little thing matters, you know, and it's the same with us, even though we may feel small or we feel this existential greatness of what we're facing, we matter and make an impact, we were important, and, and you're important to not only you and me but to everyone else. So, the next question is, what should young innovators in your field food, sharing be thinking about or if they're looking for ways to make real impact. I would say not that to think about it but don't always listen to the old people like Mark and myself, because we have our ideas, but your ideas are what we really need. I'm not minimizing us. I think we are extremely relevant. But I remember when I started, you know, when I was younger and I get a lot of, you know, we don't do it that way. I don't care if we don't do it that way, just do it your way, because that's how we change the world. Perfect. I'm not going to say anything about that in the last. I feel like this is a test. You're passing with flying colors correct answer you. How in the hell did. How did you get my answers to this test on my goodness. The last one is what two or three actions in citizens and decision makers take to help accelerate the impact in your field or global food reform or eat food and share. I was going to say so okay I'm going to draw this back to change food and the work I'm doing. Um, you know look around you. What can you do. Can you start a community fridge. Can you compost. Can you volunteer at your farmers market like this is on a consumer local basis, you know, volunteer. So if what I've seen over the years what's crazy is when I started in the food movement like there wasn't even a degree in sustainability or sustainable food systems. There's degrees all over now. So I get a lot of students who want informational interviews or who want to intern or they want to know what to do for their future. It's still not easy. I get a, let's say living wage job. That's why I'm a proponent of start your own business and then you can be a consultant or nonprofit something to for profit. I think we didn't touch on this the nonprofit for profit hybrid model should be looked at more seriously. I hope, if you haven't had a guest yet you can have an expert on that on I will be the first person watching because I have both a for profit and nonprofit and I still don't understand what I'm doing. Thank you. Thank you all. There's this TED Talk, and it's, I think it's my favorite TED Talk is by Derek servers it's three minutes long it's how to create a movement and what basically saying you need to watch it. It's the video is not great quality but it's the video is what really makes you understand that person with the vision is the crazy person, and everyone's going to look at you as a crazy person and they're going to laugh at you and they're going to then you're going to get that first follower and that first follower is going to join you and then all of a sudden it's like other people like whoa, whoa, whoa, and then you get that second follower and then you have a movement and then people will join it and that's human nature. So if you have a vision of change that you truly believe in, don't give up, don't give up, don't give up, don't give up, look for the one or two people. That's all you need to create a global movement. Diane, you are so wonderful. And I'm so thankful for you. It's been a sheer pleasure. We need to do this more often. Probably we need to do like every six months, have a call and record it. Because we could talk for hours. I just know it. There's so much. We're, we're, we're so I at least I'm in such an old fart. I don't know. We've been around and there's so many things that I think about that I would just love to unpack and speak to you about. And I think it would be nice for those to listen and hear us. If there's anything you want to add or we forgot or questions that you want to ask me before I say goodbye, please do it now. This is your chance. Wow, the most pressure. You know, really, I just want to tell everyone be safe. Take care. The pandemic is life changing. We're all going through it. Even though we're going through it together, I know it feels like we are alone. I am taking this as an opportunity to make some really big change in my life in a very positive way that I probably wouldn't have made otherwise. So like go with your passion. And just gratitude lists. I think what changed my life. If you want something to do and you're getting a little like overwhelmed, start running a gratitude list five things every day that you're grateful for. You can be grateful for the fact you have toenails. You can be grateful for the fact of heat. You can be grateful that we had upon it like it could be from the smallest to the largest. Just there's so much to be grateful for. There's so much beauty in the world. That I am honored that I got to share these few minutes and my ideas with you because this was my gift today to be able to be part of this conversation, Mark. So thank you. It is a gift and I thank you and I'm very I will cherish it and I'll post all of your links and some show notes. And if we talked about certain things, I'll post those in the description as well. And I look forward to seeing and speaking to you very soon. Thanks. Scotland. When we can travel again, we both agreed we love Scotland. Scotland. Yeah, let's meet in Scotland. I'm gonna come visit you. Do. Yep. Yep. All right, Diane. Take care. Have a good one. Bye bye. Thank you.