 Good morning everyone, good morning everyone, I'm a little over. Hello, how are you? I'm the artistic director of the Soul Project. I'm also one of the producers for the weekend and I'm very happy that you're all here. We are here to talk about leadership and specifically through the frame of what it means to be an agent of change. That's gonna be kind of part one. Then we'll take a break and then we'll come back and look at the importance of mentorship relative to leadership and how mentorship can actually galvanize real change within the field and specifically within the Latino theater community. I am joined by my partner in crime Niko Kimson who also helped shape our time together and then our panelist Stephanie Ibarra who gave a rousing keynote address last night and I think we're all really inspired. I know I was so thank you Stephanie for that. We do have one other person joining us. She's just running a little behind Sharifa Joka. She's stuck in traffic in midtown but she will join us at some point. So what I wanted to do was just really just quickly talk through the agenda for this first part. So part one is language matters. So one of the things that I want us to do is we're gonna do a little popcorn and talk about what leadership means to all of you and just do popcorn of like words. When you think of the word leadership what's the words that come to mind? Part two will be on the front line and that's really about hearing from two people in the field so that'll be Stephanie and Sharifa. And then part three will be you decide which is and the question there is what does it mean to be an agent of change to you and how can we actually galvanize kind of collective action and so we're gonna do some group work and I have some posted notes and we can split up the groups here. We'll have some of you go out into the lobby but I think the more that you can all be in conversation with each other the better. So to kick us off let's do some introductions because we should all know and see who's in the room together. So what I'd like for you to do just because I want to keep this moving and not like last night which you know sort of took a longer time right in terms of going around the circle and is your name where you're from and then just a fun fact something maybe the room doesn't know about you so I'm gonna go first. So my name is Jacob I'm from Gilroy, California and a fun fact is when I was a junior in high school I was gonna be a priest a judge and a priest. Nico Kimson I'm from Phoenix Arizona and now live in New York City and fun fact as I entered college I really wanted to be an LBGYN. I'm still Stephanie and still in Texas by way and here in New York as well and I played the oboe for seven long years and hated every moment. But it was really good. And it may be if you can stand so everyone can see you. Hi everybody I'm Josefina Lopez from Los Angeles from Casa 0101 Theater and the fun fact about me is that I witnessed nine exorcisms and I aspire to be an exorcist. Okay hey everyone I'm Daniela Tom I live in New York originally from Madison, Wisconsin via Chile. Fun fact I play the alto saxophone sometimes. Hi Michael Robertson from the LARC here in New York. I'm just struggling for a fun fact I studied Balinese dance for a year when I was in Indonesia. Hi everyone my name is Annabelle Guevara from Laredo, Texas but I'm here now in New York TCG and my chihuahua has one eye. I'm from Baltimore, Maryland originally. Fun fact I'm sticking with the music theme my roommate is a baby grand piano. Hi I'm Megan Gomez I'm from Allentown, Pennsylvania but I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico now. Fun fact about me is that I did gymnastics from when I was two to when I was ten. Hi I'm Tanya Perez I live here in New York and fun fact is for money I'm a clown CPR instructor and a self-defense instructor so I can take your life bring it back and make you laugh. Thank you so much. Hi I'm Sophia Maikushim I am from Mexico City I now live in Portland, Oregon and a fun fact I have over 50 pets. So I'm Lori I'm originally from South Florida but now I live here in New York. My fun fact is I played a 14-year-old at the Tenement Museum for two years. Hi everyone I'm Carlos originally from Columbia but I live here in the city and my fun fact is that I can't keep a plant alive I keep trying. My name is Carlos I'm originally from California but now here in New York and a fun fact about me is that I will finally be getting my driver's lessons in January. Hi I'm Elaine Romero I'm from California originally and I live in Tucson and Chicago and my fun fact is I once spent a week with Mother Teresa. Hello my name is Tiffany Vega I'm originally from East Harlem now in New Orleans Louisiana and a fun fact is I was that girl in marching band that played the xylophone. Hi I'm Stefania Padual I live in Brooklyn I grew up in New Hampshire and was born in Columbia. I fun fact is I figure skated for a long time growing up. Hi my name is Kayla Bafoni I am from Southern California but I currently live in Houston, Texas and my fun fact is that I'm an inspiring ukulele enthusiast. Hi I'm Trevor Bafoni from Houston, New Orleans and fun fact I follow more dogs than humans on Instagram. Hi I'm Richard Marino this is our theater theater. Welcome. From a small island of the east coast of the United States called Manhattan I guess you guys heard of it and fun fact is that I grew up being a jock and I still call the dressing room a locker room and intermission halftime. Hello I'm Maribel Alvarez I'm from Tucson Arizona and a fun fact that I freak out my students the first day of class telling them that in my former life I said hip-hop artist I was known as Dr. M. Hi my name is Ashley Ortiz I'm from Papal North Carolina but live in New York City a fun fact about me is I run Marathon. Hi my name is Maria Cristina Fusté I'm from Puerto Rico I live in New York and fun fact I don't know I'm obsessed with Brazil and I've been studying samba trying to learn samba for two years I went to Brazil a couple of weeks ago and I can't really dance samba. Good morning everyone my name is Anakramos I live in Rochester, New York. Fun fact is that I have a twin sister and a younger sister who's 11 months apart so we freak our friends out. Hi I'm Viviana Vargas and I'm from New York my parents are Colombian Ecuadorian and a fun fact is that I used to be a lifeguard. Hi I'm Alyssa Gomez I'm from the Bronx and fun fact about me is that up until halfway through senior year I was convinced I was going to be a paleontologist with my own TV show on the Discovery Channel. I'm Magdalena Cruz and I'm New Yorker from the Bronx and I have so many fun facts but one will be that I started college as a math major. Hey my name is Alyssa Volcaneva I'm from New York I currently divide my time between Los Angeles where I run a theater company in the Oregon Shakespeare Festival where I'm in residence at PCG and I guess the fun fact is that I play the trumpet. Hi I'm Cheryl Leakemia I was born in Chicago and now I live in New York and the fun fact I guess is that I lived in rural Maine and worked in a sawmill. Good morning I'm Sansan I'm from Boston my car it's still really in Hawaii and San Francisco. I'm a little I'm grateful that we're talking about facts because Trump-Surgis don't believe in facts and fun fact I guess is that I love pandemics and I really want to be reincarnated as a pandemic doctor. Oh wow. Hi I'm Marilyn Ford Barrera I'm currently in Ashland Oregon and my fun fact is maybe an odd fact which is I can fit my whole fist in my mouth. Oh. I'm living in Oregon at Shakespeare Festival and fun fact I used to I went to Pratt Institute in Brooklyn for fine art. Hi everyone my name is Cristiamina pleasure being here I am from Jersey City New Jersey inner city Jersey girl Boricua and my fun fact is at the age of 22 when I took a job as ugly uh ugly Betty at a magazine company I had to serve salmon to my boss and then I threw a party for Alicia Keys two weeks after. Hello my name is Oscar Cabrera I'm from Lubbock, Texas but I live here in New York. A fun fact is I can wiggle my ears. Hi my name is Diomargy Nunez I'm Dominican, Brazen Miami living here now and a fun fact is my first acting experience I played Mrs. Satan in an activity thing that we did in school I don't know why Satan had a wife. I played Satan since like two years ago so I'm hoping to keep that going. Hi I'm Bryn Packard and I once had an industrial acting job where I got to drive a truck on an active runway at O'Hare Airport and then after I was done with that job I jumped in my U-Haul and moved here that was three and a half years ago. Chicago. I'm David House I'm from Murfreesboro Tennessee originally but I've been in Boston for 25 years and my fun fact is that I eat three desserts a day. My name is Ivan Vega I was uh I am from Chicago live in the Humboldt Park community and run a theater called Urban Theater Company which is based in Humboldt Park, Puerto Rico community. Fun fact is uh both of my parents are Puerto Rican but I grew up in La Villita little village which is the Mexican community of Chicago. They had a Mexican grocery store they was called El Mexicano with a picture of Vicente Fernandez in the front so I grew up thinking I was Mexican though. Hi I'm Noel Montes I'm uh from Boston uh originally from Texas and uh fun fact about me in 1993 I placed 19th in the National Spelling Bee. I'm Jesse I'm from Salt Lake City and I am trying and failing to learn Korean. Hi I'm Tara I was born in Tucson and I now live in East Texas and my fun fact is I've accidentally taught my dog how to spell dog. I'm Ramona I'm from Boston uh and I think this is my first time speaking on a live stream. Hi my name is Ramona Araus I'm originally from Connecticut I'm Peruvian American and I live here in New York and my fun fact is that um in graduate school I used to be a competitive salsa dancer um and then I married a white guy and I don't do it ever. In this beautiful space um in front of this amazing set La Gloria it's fantastic um I also just wanted to remind everyone that um you know the way that we've structured the convening is is through the lens of aesthetics identity and leadership and the happy feedback that we received in our planning was that people found it really difficult to pick which track you wanted to be a part of so I think that's great and the hope is that whatever you learn here today you're able to then share that knowledge with your communities um in your cities but also with the other attendees so that there's actually a real exchange of information and that there's a synergy between these three buckets so I just wanted to remind everyone about that. Okay so I'm going to erase this now and we're going to start with language matters defining leadership so when we think about leadership or what makes a good leader what are the words that come to mind and I think we're going to just do just some popcorn as I mentioned um uh and this thing is a little there we go okay so anyone? inspirational inspirational vision creating a new possibility for community okay hey actually maybe you and I can yeah thank you facilitator authenticity risk taker passion driven boom listener fearless political ownership strategist listener colleague not superior hmm accountable transparency community leader uh what was that community community leader conviction servant vision I have vision impact you shared ingenuity ingenuity how do you know ingenuity spell right yeah humble humble It's fearless, inclusive, principle, collaborative, crazy, false, a whole, sane, willing to be wrong. Communicator, curiosity, organized, intuitive, teacher, charismatic, future thinking or forward thinking, charismatic, reflected, aware, honest, respectful, passionate, unit fire, willing to be wrong, fellow, unattached to results, flexible, forward thinking, teachable, fantastic. So just so that the words are out in space, I'm going to just read freedom to humility. So humility, charismatic, honest, possibility driven, flexible, kindness, mediator, partner, sane, elevator, listener, conviction, learner, learner, yeah, I can't write. Yes. Strong, inclusive, humble, all embracing communicator, community organizer, willing to be wrong, political, strategist, a listener, a unifier, as empathy, as a teacher, as a risk taker, compassionate, as a community leader, is nimble, a colleague, not superior, courageous, facilitator, bold, fearless, respectful, inspirational, authentic, has vision is not crazy. Ingenuity, shared curiosity, impact driven, and who's a servant? I think that's all really, really beautiful. And I just, you know, I just wanted to take a moment, like I said, to have all of our voices in the space. Because the thing is, is that leadership is actually a challenging thing. And it's ever-expansing. But there are two people who I really love and respect, and who I think actually embody so much of what we've captured here, who I thought we could really hear from. And I asked them to basically think of two kind of guiding questions, which is, you know, how, what does being an agent of change mean to them? But also, how do we activate or use leadership to tell the kinds of stories that we want to tell to actually better serve our community? So that's Sharifa Joka from the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. And Stephanie Abara from the Public Theater. And so I think I'm going to just turn it over to them. I've asked them to share a little bit about their background, where they come from, and then to share some reflections. And then we'll go from there. So Stephanie Sharifa, who would like to go for it? Stephanie, of course. Agent of change. What was your question, Jay? How do we use, how do we leverage leadership to tell the stories that we want to tell to affect change? So a little bit about myself. I currently am the director of special artistic projects at the Public Theater, which means what does that even mean? It means that I run the mobile unit on top of the public, and I co lead the public forum with my partner in crime, Michael Friedman. So on the one hand, I run a program that is solely about like getting out into the community and taking the work of the public to the people. And on the other hand, I run a sort of like theater of ideas, audience engagement, artistic enhancement program. So I feel like I get all the all the good things. In I don't feel like I want to go too far into my actual background or whatever, if you want to know more about my resume. But I do think this question of like, what does it mean to be a leader? Is a thing that I feel like I've grappled with my entire career. And several, several, several years ago, somebody asked me this question. He said, What kind of leader do you want to be? I was at a sort of crossroads. I had a choice to make. It wasn't like an earth shattering choice. But when I asked for this advice, the response was, Well, what kind of leader do you want to be? And it's it hit me like a ton of bricks, because I I ever since then have when I hit the crossroads, I don't know what to do. That's usually I go back to that question. It's like a touchstone question. What kind of leader do I want to do? What kind of producer do I want to be? What does this decision mean for my values? And for the way I walk through this world? And what does this decision mean for those same set of values? And which will reflect, which is which decision is more closely aligned with values? So I just a little bit about how I come to leadership. In terms of, do I answer all the things right now? Or do or just read the same more about herself? That's hilarious. We can tell us. Yes. So the very sort of brief summary of my background is I came out of working in television, multiple capacities, primarily as a producer, and sometimes as a program, a curator of art programs. And then I was introduced to the world theater in my current position at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival, where I manage a professional development program. And it's interesting, because I think that there's no question that I accept the fact that, you know, I'm a leader in certain ways. But as I walk through the world, I don't necessarily have that, that sort of title or position in my head. I'm really clear that we all have the ability to take on leadership roles and we can lead initiatives and we can lead things. And I think that there's a part of there's a politic that I have that I didn't quite know was a politic until I began to meet people who didn't share that policy. I sort of felt that it was, you know, that's the natural thing that human beings want to do. But I think that I come from a history of working with large institutions, whether it was film or whether it's theater, and those institutions are well resourced and they have the ability to change people's lives. And I always felt like in those positions, that part of my job was to make sure that the people who were not in the institution had access to the institution. So everything that I did was just a matter of how can I get this person to be introduced to the people that I work with who are making such significant decisions can actually change their lives. So whether it's a program that I'm managing or an initiative that I have or introduction that you make to people, I feel particularly as a person of color, the institution that's largely white and well resourced, your job is because it's not your institution, unless it is, your job is to ensure that if and when you leave, you have left four, five, six, 10, 20 people behind, not just for not just for, you know, the altruistic reason of it all, but just even for selfish reasons, you want to return to those resources, 20 people left behind means at least five will be there when you want to tap back into that organization. So it's sort of like even if you thought about your own insurance policy to ensure that you have access to those resources, you want to leave people behind, it's going to be able to answer that call for you. So I just think that that's part of a politic that I clearly know that I have, because as I expected, I have other people sometimes, there's like, you know, look a surprise or amazement or wonder me, like what does that mean? Why else do you think you're here? I mean, you already have the job. So now it's just really not I'm sure that we're getting into this place, right, and are able to access the resources that you have here. So I think that that's sort of where I lead from. And everything is really a manifestation of that. And in terms of how you leverage your position to tell your story, I think that there are so many ways that's limitless. It doesn't matter what position you have, what role you have, I think that the reality of power and influence should not be overlooked. And we need to lean into the real understanding the meanings of those words, because you always have power as someone who exists and lives and breathes in the world. And you always have influence, despite whether or not you have authority to make the decisions, you have power over and influence over the people who have authority. So you have to just find the ways to either shame people into doing it, encourage them into doing it, make them reach to it joyfully. I don't know how they get there. But I think that you have a way once you when you decide it's important what to be done, your job is to make sure that your voice gets louder. And if you need more voices to join you get there. And apply the pressure to make it happen. So I think that that is limitless in terms of how you enjoy that. I can talk a little bit about the way I leverage my current position for change. But I'm and I will say upfront that I don't know if I'm going to say some very popular things. But hey, it is what it is. So in my current position at the public, I spend a lot of time as I'm sure we all when you're like one of the only people of color in the room, you know, doing the thing of like pointing out like looking being the person who is looking through that lens and reflecting it back to the room. I feel really lucky that that doesn't happen very often in my institution. I am surrounded by a small army of wonderful colleagues of color, particularly in the artistic office, but but it gets very tiring sometimes and really frustrating. But every time I get to that place, I remember why I'm doing it. And that helps remind myself of like, well, when I say this thing again, then eventually it will stick. And that means that these stories are going to get told or these artists are going to get hired or we're going to change these policies and practices within our institutional culture. When it comes to the the actual work on stage, this is the unpopular part. I tend to dock with artists, writers and directors, but in my current role, it's usually I'm working. I traffic in Shakespeare a lot. So I'm specifically like targeting directors for my program who not just who don't just share or don't just have like lovely resumes and they don't just have the sort of technical chops to do a Shakespeare play, but they have to actually walk the walk in terms of their values and how they align with the program that I've run. And I talk about this a lot with my boss, Oscars, we're talking about who will direct. I said I I've gotten better at articulating what those values are. But I used to say I used to sit in his office and say it's just you know, it's like they've got it, which is to say it is part of who they are. The values of like generosity and patience and and and are in their DNA. And when we are casting our creative team, that is as important if I'm really being honest, more, more important to me than what might ultimately end up on stage. Because that is a kind of like ripple effect. It is a lever that I can push where I decide to hire like the person who is going to not just create good art, but actually take care of the people in the room and actually be open enough to collaboration that would that the program gets to do what it needs to do. And then and so with the happily when I push that one lever more often than not, all the other levers take care of themselves. Like I put I hire the one person who I know is going to like get it. And then then they sort of proliferate out from there. It's the pebble, the one pebble, and then the ripples go every once in a while. I have to remind somebody why we are doing what we're doing and the values that the program sort of like espouses. And every once in a while, I have to say, go back to the drawing board. I want to see more people of color on your creative team. I want to see more actors of color in your, you know, in the sort of like casting poll that we're talking about. And if I hear the words like quota, then I then to myself, I'm like, I've made a mistake here. We are not the same. If you think about that as a quota, then we are misaligned in our values. But I have no problem being like, yep, it's a quota. Now fill it because there is a bigger thing at work, right? Like the vision for what the program does and who I am and the way the way we need to activate our communities and our artists within those communities is larger than any one individual artist. And so as a leader within my institution, in my program, and in the leader community, those are the lines, like those are the moments where I'm like, what kind of leader do I want to be? What kind of producer do I want to be? Am I okay with being the kind of leader to look at an artist and be like, I don't care. It's not about you at this moment. Yes I am. You know, and I'm working in an institution where artists come first. So I look rigorously for the artists who are aligned with my values and the values of the program so that I don't have to be like, because I said so. Because that doesn't feel good. But when push comes to shove, because I said so, and fill the quota, and I don't care how you feel about it, is actually like okay with me. I see some hands shooting up. But one question that I wanted to ask our panelists is, for those of us who sit outside institutions, who actually aren't going to the brick and mortar, how can we, how can we push those levers? Or how can we actually be agents of change in our communities, but don't necessarily work for a large or small institution? Do you get the thought about that? I think context is everything. Particularly when you look at that board, right, we're living in a national landscape where the national discourse is the opposite of all that. And I'm just really curious in terms of, as a community of leaders, because I can look around this room and recognize a lot of faces. And I know the impact that many of you guys are making across the field today and beyond. And I think about this room of leaders who are in here, like what are we thinking about in terms of 2017 as the new sort of course for us collectively, knowing that discourse nationally is really loud. And that many of us are outside of institutions that have a significant amount of power or thinking about leaving institutions, right? Because the institutions are enough anymore. So I pose that question almost to the collective. I'm just really curious about if we come away from today, what do we expect out of each other? Because I think we're going to really need to, this community has been built over the course of the past couple of years. I think there's a reason for that. I think that we've been preparing for this moment. So now that we're in it, what do we want to do in terms of that coalition building and collective work? I think a little bit. I immediately think about the stuff, some of the stuff that I said in the keynote speech last night. But I think about the individual levers that are available. I keep going back to that word lever, but pebble or whatever, whatever your favorite metaphor is, the individual choices that we get to make every day, regardless of where you go to work, because we are all active participants in our communities and in the artistic community, either in New York or outside of New York. And I still think that the tiniest, it starts just like with the tiniest things like, like how we talk about work. After you see a show, it matters. And because people are listening and language matters, words matter. And I think that there are myriad ways that people can lead and activate change without an institution. But I don't think even within an institution, it doesn't always look like this, you know, it's like, if you're always reaching for the thing that you need somebody else's permission to do, then I feel like you're just going to get disappointed all the time. But instead, if you're also not not either or but like also looking for like, I don't need anybody else's permission or any infrastructure or any money to like decide to stop talking about new plays as being risky, you know, like that. Like, what are those moments? And so that's how I feel like, whether you're in an institution or not, those I think are the really like small, empowering moments that when you start to like put them all together, you sort of like, you stand taller and you take up more space in whatever community you're inhabiting. Yeah, so I'm just mindful of time. So yeah, we have about I would say about five minutes for questions for and also Nico Nico also runs a company that's really doing great work here in New York. So feel free. So yeah, let's start there. Yep. Great. You talked about being within your organizations and one of the things that I face continuously is being the only person and artist of color within my organization. I've been there for about a year. The white privilege standard is the constant face that I am challenged by. And right now I'm bringing greater value to that organization. And I want to know how each of you perhaps have tipped that balance so that you now get the balance of getting more outcome oriented within the Latino community, because that's where I'm at. I'm literally that bridge between two the Latino community and this very powerful, long established, white privileged organization. And so how do you balance that power and how do you tip the scale to bring greater benefit to the Latino community or the Latino art community? That's a great question. I think the first thing I would say is working in isolation isn't sustainable. So that situation of being the only person is really critical to augment change shift. And if the support is not within your organization, you have to figure out who are the colleagues outside of your organization who can be part of your circle because working in isolation is not sustainable. So your first set of business behind is to find some peer groups and to create an affinity group. Ideally, that includes a plan to expand the staff and diversify that staff. But the immediate thing that means to happen is identify some people that you can collaborate with. And I think that in terms of conflicts is everything again. So in terms of I don't know where you're at and what you're doing, but I think identifying the piece that you want to share first is critical, putting mapping out the strategy of how you want to engage the community I would need to have more information to give you more specific information, but I can talk generally speaking, I think that there's a way for you to break down the meal into portions and identify which portion you're going to start with and take it from there. But yeah, I would I would add to that if you if you have the kinds of relationships with your colleagues that allow you to name the privilege without being sort of accusatory, or maybe you need to be accusatory, but it's it is I still get very nervous. I have really excellent relationships with my two white male bosses and and all of my colleagues that it still gets it's nervous making to say this is a moment where we need to just shift our thinking because like the sort of dominant paradigm is X. I don't know that I say white privilege, I just say dominant paradigm so that nobody's feeling accused. And so we might if we shift our thinking and look through a different lens, then we might see this. But I think that the more that you can find even the small ways of naming our biases, which is it, you know, there are so many different words for it. And there's so many different ways to get at the product of privilege that that doesn't have to that can also honor you know, the goodwill, the assumption of sort of like the goodwill of your colleagues, I guess. So I would, you know, explore language of biases, language of paradigms, subversive paradigms, dominant paradigms and to make sure that when you are raising a flag that you're that you're sort of tying it back to like, if we don't make this shift, like this is what I see, dominant paradigm. So let's make this shift. Like you have to name it so that other people start to see it with you. I think part of naming it to just to add on to that is there is a there's a scaffolding to the work that has to occur. And one of them is deep in analysis. I can tell you that there certainly when I got to OSM about five years ago, I think a lot of the conversation was, you know, dominant culture, X and XYZ in the third. And now it's just white culture and white structural racism. And we ain't got time for this. So because the analysis is deep in, we can have a conversation without defense, see what understanding what white supremacist culture is. Although it's not a personal attack, they understand structural racism is real. There's an understanding that we can fast forward in conversations. It's still equally as frustrating, but at least we're using language as accurate. So that's helpful. But there is a scaffolding that has to happen in order for you to begin to have these conversations. It's helpful as though have some colleagues that you're working with to get to treat the purpose of that affinity spaces to give space for strategy. And then you go implement it. So sometimes you urge yourself up and give it to the confidence to deal with the fear that you might be facing. And then you have sort of a board echo chamber that is supportive and allows to continue. Other questions. Just continuing off of what you just said. Thank you. Organizations are large and complex, even with 30 people. But then you have more and they're not all going to move together, right? So I know even at OSF, you will be struggling with people who are going dominant paradigm. Oh, I feel safe. Wait, we're talking white people are not safe here. So how do you deal with that shift where even in five years, you know, some people need another 20. And some people are like, we go back there. I mean, look at this country. That's, you know, that that was one. This was, you know, make America great. So how do you deal with the complexities of the differences in a city within a larger community? And I think that depending on how much you care about the journey of others. So I can speak for myself, specifically. So the two, the two people are important for me in order for the work to move forward is our artistic director or executive director. And once they have clarity, everyone else can have their own journey at their own pace. I can really get to that. Right. So the conversation that allows me to be where I need to be is directed by them. And so that's where all the resources for me go. There's 600 people at OSF. And I am not as concerned about the five 98 outside of quite frankly, I think it just depends on how those people affect the work going for us. As the culture shifts based on their leadership, based on their appointment of agency, other people that work at the organization, the other five 98 will decide to either opt in or opt out. And we see people retire, we see people leave, but we also have to see a lot of people show up. So it's just a matter of whether or not that's important to you. And for me, it's not as important. I think when you look at that through the prism of just like leadership, you just take take diversity out of the equation for just a second and just like, you know, as a leader, how do you just how do you make peace with the fact that wherever you're going, people are going to not be keeping pace necessarily that you want them to. And I think that it's I I know for me, I spend a lot of my time. If any of you have an email in the last four or five months, we're out there, I've probably not responded to it in any kind of timely fashion. I don't spend much time at my desk or in front of a computer. I spend so much of my time walking around in meetings, sure, but also walking around the office and like sort of perching on somebody's, you know, couch and just chatting with them. And and that's like all stratus of the institution. Because that relationship building that's sort of like out no stakes kind of relationship building, let's just have a chat over coffee, helps to scaffold for the conversations that ultimately you are going to need to have, you know, with your colleagues and your teammates in order to bring them along. And I'll give you an example inside of my beloved mobile unit. I have a lot of authority. I have a lot of formal authority and I can say because I said so. And if I if that doesn't work, then I have a very like a six foot three bearded man standing right behind me and I can usually be like, but does he do that? So, you know, but that is not as a leader, that is not a place that feels good. And it's not, I don't feel like it's the most effective for the long term change. Yeah. So, when when we started our mobile our mobile unit program, we do three weeks out on tour. And then we bring it back down to the public theater and perform for three weeks inside of the building. I can do whatever hell I want outside of the building. I don't have to really ask anybody. There's no other key stakeholders, you know, I could just like run the show. It's really lovely. When I get in the building, there's like a multiplicity of like departments and people who have opinions and there is a dominant culture, like the way we welcome our audiences, the way we sit together, all the things. It is does zero good to say to our director of the audience services or house managers, you will let them take pictures, you will let them drink their drinks and you like it doesn't work that way. So instead, I sit down for like multiple over multiple productions, multiple conversations, just sitting around a table. Let me tell you why it is important that we welcome our audiences in this slightly different way. Does that not work for you? What's hard about that? I think I can make that easier. OK, we can let that go. But this is the part that feels really important, right? And over the course, it took probably three productions, three mobile images. That's like a year and a half. I I now walk into the public theater during our sit down runs and our front of house staff, people I have not spoken to about this are like, I'm looking at the camera, breaking fire code laws, you know, like move, like do, they are making individual choices, reasonable choices that do not affect people's safety. To physically make space for more people, they are engaging with our audiences in different ways. And that could not have come from a unilateral decision top down. That had to come from, like some, you know, not quite peer to peer, but some collegial sort of relationship building and then permeate out from there. And it required listening, it required dialogue and it required that thing. I also say distance. That's not going to work for me. That flies in the face of, you know, you know, house manager's values or whatever. Okay. I hear that. That's cool. Let's think about a different way of it, right? Because here's the ultimate goal. Now, how, what are your ideas for how we get there? So I feel like you can apply that to any give you, whether it's diversity or whatever kind of cultural change. But I also think that because I said so, which to me is like a nuclear option, but it's a perfectly reasonable option where you meet where you sort of like, I don't care what the other five 90 today, because there are those moments too. Yeah. So I'm in Brooklyn College right now studying performing arts management and I'll actually be at the public next year in January. Fundraising. But so my class is mainly white. There's five of us in the first year and then six in the second year. And we were having these conversations in class about different aspects of the theater industry and different things that are going on. And one of them was on diversity. And at one point in the conversation, it came to be that most of my classmates were like, they're waking it waking up and are like, oh, there's so many problems. There's, you know, what do we get? But there's no solutions really. And I was like, there's so many things we could do. And it all comes from inclusivity, really. And it's like, look around this room, you probably should have more people of color in our classroom. That's one thing. But I don't know, I guess and then even my professor was like, it's an interesting that the one person who actually deals all these things finds many solutions. So I don't know, I guess it's like, how do you deal with people who once they are getting waken up with woke from issues, don't feel like they do anything, you know, you need like specific things that need to happen. I'm finding the urge to call on two people to speak on that. I see three or five people. So I'm going to call on Michael, Mary Lee, Gabriel, Alisa, Amelia. Anyone of y'all? I think it's engaging in people in this room, finding those people that do this work, know how to speak to it. And I do a lot of outreach. I did a true with Shreva yesterday, we did a went to Manhattan Borough Community College just to do what we do in our fair program outreach and empowered young people of color that get involved, you know, we're here for them work. I lend myself as a resource all the time. It's like saying here, golden ticket. Just like Stephanie says, like it's hard to I don't ask for permission anymore. I just say this is going to happen. You know, I just I don't say you think I can can I do, you know, it's no more. I'm not inferior anymore. I'm, you know, I stand on my own ground and say this is this is what's going to happen. This is what I'm going to do. Making those connections, making sure, you know, everybody in your institution, know everybody in your community know the biggest. This is one thing I'm starting to do is even I'm talking to police chiefs in our in the Rose Valley and like challenging them on their biases and getting community members, community this community organizations that we have being a member of them and fanlets collectively start moving forward. So it's like empowering yourself through others is what it is and being strategic. And I think it's great that how Stephanie says she didn't agree. That's perfect because you need people that are going to be the ambassador for that work in that way to be like, yeah, I want to listen to you. And then you have someone that's like, I'm not done talking to those people. I'm not because that energy needs to be focused on. Like that's the person manning the guns, you know, you don't mess with that person there. You know, that's there are battle stations that can do their work. But that, you know, let the new tenant take care of what needs, you know, directing orders that communicate with that person. So everyone has a role in a different way. And we have to respect that in that, you know, when people get up out of the room because they're done, I'll stay there on purpose. Because I know strategically people are, you know, what we call the white fragility will land on me. And then I'll delegate how that white fragility gets dealt with. And you're like, how can we use this white fragility? Well, we've got a lot of campaigns. That's your money. What's that, you know, manifest that taken by the white fragility. Like I learned to strategize this how to take that white fragility and manifest it into that, see some money to, you know, give me that white fragility. I want to take that, see it in dollar form. Let's put it into this program and that program. So I hear you saying to Gagel is just again, just to like focus that in on leadership, and whether it's like dealing with diversity or whatever, whatever what you've done is position yourself as a resource. Right. And when we look at all of those words, like if you are going to like assume a leadership role, then at some point you have to be okay with being the resource and creating the like your army, right? And so and redirecting people's energy so that like I just want to call that out in what you're saying is like as a leader in your community, you have positioned yourself in a way that people are like, I'm going to go talk to him. Yeah, even though you don't hold the power, but you create this power by influence and who you know, the formal authority, but you may have the informal authority to help affect change wherever you are. Absolutely. Apologies for coming in late. Just want to rip off of what Gabriel was saying a little bit. I think so much of this work. There also is a big piece of self work that has to be done that can't commit to service without knowing deeply yourself and what your limits are and what your role is that not everybody is going to be the right person to be on the front lines and pick up the money or pick up a fist or do whatever you need the nurturers, you know, you need the incubators, you need the coax of the chefs who are going to feed people. You know, and so a lot of deep thought has got to go into what is the role that I have within this struggle here. And what is kind of the community again that I can build of the people around me who I don't have all the skills and I want to make sure I can nurture but sometimes I really want to fight too. So I want to make sure that I have all these elements around me so that I don't have to do it all myself and I can go, okay, well, you're really good at that. So if we did this together, then we're going to balance all of each other. But that knowing I sell peace and I think we give a lot of lip service to core values. It is hard, hard work. It is what you're going to go to the map for. It is knowing, okay, if I'm going to put on a safety pin, what does that mean? Am I really going to be willing to then be a bodyguard and physically put my physical self in front of somebody else to defend them? You know, am I willing to do that? It's deep hard work and you have to do that before you can do or alongside the work of service. And no matter where you are in your career, it's an ongoing life lesson and life work. I know that you're earlier in your career. I'm later in my career, but I think there are blind spots and pieces of things that I need deep work on still. I think with that, I want to move us to our next because we've got 30 minutes left. And I want to I want us to do a little bit of group work. So thank you for that. It's beautiful. And thank you all. Thank you panelists. Amazing. Thank you for part two after lunch. We can maybe continue part of this conversation. We come back and look at specifically mentorship relative to leadership and how that's another level level lever to affect change. So I'm going to count you off into groups of four. We're going to have two groups in here. So maybe one group here. So group one here, group two here and then three and four out in the lobby space. And what I want you to do with your group is to actually start to as a group think about what it means for your group to be an agent of change. And then what I want your group to also do and this is sort of hard. And I realize that it's hard because you have limited time. Come up with a mission statement. An agent of change in the American theater is and that and then we're going to share. So we're going to have four mission statements. Okay. Are the instructions clear? Yes. Excellent. So we're going to start here. Again, we're going to count for one do four one. one two three four one two four one two three four one two three four one two three four one two three four. One, two, three, four, one, two, great, excellent. So one's here, two's up there, and then three and four out in the locker. And Nico will come by with some markers and big pieces of paper.