 Welcome everybody to another episode of the nonprofit show. We're really excited because this is Friday, this is the day Where we we get people in the hot seat and we have them work with us on our ask and answer people from all over the World send in their questions today's very unique because what we're doing is We are having our guests from the Dave Thomas Foundation for adoption on to answer some questions And some of these questions have come in throughout the week and we'll kind of relate to What we've been chatting about so I want to welcome back Rita El-Sornan president and CEO of the Dave Thomas Foundation Jill Krumbacher senior vice president of marketing and development. Yes, you heard that right marketing and Say that again because it's just Fascinating and then of course I'm Julia Patrick. You know who I am We want to make sure that we thank all of our presenting sponsors who've been with us this week Bloomerang American nonprofit Academy your part-time controller be generous Fundraising Academy at National University Staffing boutique nonprofit thought leader and the nonprofit nerd Again, if you want to find any of these episodes, they have been riveting Check us out on Roku YouTube Amazon fire TV or Vimeo and all of those are Transferable, so if you see something and you want to share it with your board or co-workers or your neighbor down the street You can do it through this and then podcasts. We have been putting all of these episodes into podcast format For about the last year now and so all of this content is consumable wherever you like to queue up your podcasts Okay, you ready? Okay This is really interesting this came to Rita and it says Rita How many people ask you to serve on the Dave Thomas Foundation? for adoption board or Is it a case that you are always having to search out prospective board members on your own? Rebecca from New York. That's a it's a great question and we do over the past few years We've had more and more people reach out to us and ask if they could be on our board And so we actually have a nice cue in the ready of people and we're constantly going through what are the Skills that might fill a gap on our board Are people really interested in being on the board to engage or to fill a resume? And so we do a lot of that work ahead of time with folks to talk to them engage their interest and understand Typically, it's somebody that has a personal connection to the cause and so they want to do more and we love that But yeah, we have people approaching us about being on the board. Well, I would I would identify you as a prestigious board because it's a National, you know, it has a national presence and then also because it's a grand a granting organization Again the topic the topic is amazing, but I would think those two Kind of push you out front. Would you agree with that? I think so and I think particularly we've we've really I think established ourselves as a brand In across the nation and so people notice. Yeah, the Dave Thomas Foundation for adoption They understand maybe a little bit. What's that connection with Wendy? So we're still in an explaining mode of time Some people think we're a corporate foundation. Some people think we're a family foundation So how do I get involved and it surprises them when we say no, we're a national nonprofit public charity And we have to raise funds like everyone else. But yes, we make grants We we implement programs and so I think that variety of what we do is enticing the folks as well and This is from me. This is a question that I have as a follow-up How many folks on your board are directly tied to the Wendy's corporate structure? You know aside from fundraising, but just within that leadership, what does that look like because you told us you have 24 board members Yeah, yeah, it's a fairly unique situation because of this strong relationship with the Wendy's company Seven designated positions are corporate positions and they tend to be the C suite position So the CEO the CMO the chief communications officer those folks are on and then we have seven positions for Franchisees because so much of our fundraising is in the franchise community They make independent business decisions for their franchise They carry the brand that got a lot of agreements in place with the corporation, but they're independent business people And then we have two Thomas family members that sit on the board two positions to preserve for them And then seven more positions for outside members people that don't have any connection to That the Wendy's brand so we've talked about that a lot You know at some point do we need to reduce the number of corporate positions franchise positions increase the number of public positions We're in a sort of evolution conversation stage about that We don't want to diminish of course our relationship with Wendy's but do we need that strong of a presence when perhaps we could Have a benefit by having more public members on the board as well um You know, I was just while we had that little pause I was just reviewing with our viewers and our listeners The Dave Thomas foundation has done something which obviously blows my mind because I bring it up every time we're together That you have combined the the leadership of both development fundraising And marketing and put them under i'm going to use the word chief one chief one director um Which I love I am Amazed by it. I I can't believe that it's It's successful as to the degree that it is Just based on the amount of work that has to get managed But I love love love The the mental direction of it and so Jill we have a question. Um, that's come in for you And Jonah and Richard from chicago write we've noticed that you are leading both development and marketing Is this normal or is this a temporary situation as the organization grows? Um, it is not a temporary situation It is uh, um a purposeful decision for where we are right now. Will it be that way for it? I don't know Um, but it is not like a short term over trying to find somebody right now to fill that role No, it's been that way for the last eight years Um, and and I think you know that our plan as long as we're in the stage of fundraising and brand building that we're in I think one of the reasons why it works so well for us is we're doing very public broad nationwide Fundraising and brand building at the same time. So while we have good brand awareness We may not have as much brand awareness as say You know the american red cross or st Right and in order to do as much fundraising as we need to on a nationwide level We need to have really high brand awareness. They work together And what we found is a lot of the work that you do to build your brand awareness brings in funds And a lot of the spend you do on public fundraising nationwide builds your brand and so when When we are trying to discern on our metrics Is this a marketing thing is a fundraising thing? I mean we're able to do it We're able to say okay the purpose of this is fundraising the purpose of this is marketing But the truth is both work together to do both things Which is bring in funding and bring, you know build that brand awareness of the organization Which you have to have and it's just very difficult to separate For us and so, you know, if you're more of a chapter organization and you're doing more One-on-one fundraising or regional fundraising Maybe that's different for you, but we are just in a place where It's hard to separate them. So we don't You know, I think it's brilliant. No, I actually think it's brilliant. I think it's really smart I am a very small donor to your organization because I was so moved when I first met Rita And so I I'm very very privileged to see what you do how you market to your donors And and I think that All too often We see a disparity between the marketing messaging And the development messaging and sometimes it is at a loggerhead and it so how I see how you function is is like Top drawer. This is the way and it's like a masterclass on what you should be doing What I can't get my head wrapped around is how you do it I I mean, that's what where I get I'm just like, how does this get done? Like how many people do you have on your team? We have a total of 20 including myself And you know, those are fairly we have a large marketing team that's supporting that fundraising team So you absolutely we have I think three sections, you know We have two different development sections one fake focused on our corporate partnership one focused on that non corporate partner partnership of that Broad public fundraising and then the marketing team that supports all of that they support other departments as well, of course but So we I have a leader of each of those things And they are high level functioning leaders Right and so um making sure we recognize them as such It's true and without them. I can't stay in the weeds of it all I have to stay up at a strategic level ask the right questions Push things in there, you know, they're right directing from traffic control Keep things into data But I don't do it all is the answer to your question I stay aware from a high level strategic A perspective and results perspective But we have a great team with strong mid-level leadership and julia Ed we're constantly pulsing jill and I talk a lot over the years Is this still working in this direction? We need to pull these apart And as we look at it and as we think about it and engage goals and successes against those goals It's worked well for us so far Well, you know just being on the other side Um, it is beautifully done your work is beautifully done I mean if you open up an email at eight o'clock in the morning And then you go on to the website two days later and at three o'clock in the afternoon You're going to see a consistent thread. I mean the pieces are From coloring to typography to messaging Um, it's very consistent. So I think it works again I just get like Holy moly. How does this get managed? Because I know I know what this takes, right? I mean and so that's to me The exciting thing to see this um before we go on I have another question and I hope this is helping Jonah and richard from chicago Everybody knows an afp the association of fundraising professionals reports that the Average tenure and it just breaks my heart to say this Of a fund development Director or high level manager is only 18 months Where are you with that trajectory? Are you holding on to your fundraisers or what does that look like for you? Oh, thank goodness. We are not Those statistics all the time and it's frightening you're just up to speed on an organization and have fun raised by the time you leave Um, and we are not anywhere near that scenario Um, I've been here eight and a half years and my the the leaders that report to me Um, one's been here longer than me. Um, and the others are all five to six years Um, but they've all been in place. And so I think what's really important for me is I want to be sure to hang onto those people Yes Now the same going for marketing. I mean again just putting the perspective of the The shifts in labor and and the type of labor you need because you've got to have more digital Oriented marketers coming into your team. What does that look like? How's that pipeline for talent? Great question. And we talked uh yesterday I believe a little bit about how that can be a little bit more of a younger hire Or a little bit more of an entry level higher than your fundraisers And on our younger end of some of those digital More entry level types of positions. We do see more turnover there As they are really seeking to climb the ladder You know and fast forward their careers They're the ones who will hop on other you know external opportunities with a little more speed. And so Candidly, yeah, we have seen a little more turnover in that group. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. Well, you know, uh, jill this makes me Your comment about how you've been able to retain your your fund development team It almost seems like it dovetails back to how critical it is to have a positive strong environment You know throughout the whole sector. So, you know, congratulations to you because that's where you're seeing it show up Um, okay. These are always my favorite when we get a name withheld from los angeles Um, california, they come from everywhere and i'm going to woman up Sometimes I will take somebody's name off because if I think it's like, well, you know, I don't I don't want to do that But this came in as the name withheld so As the time moves further and further away from people actually knowing Dave thomas The founder of wendy's and the foundation Do you see issues with telling the founder's story or does this matter? You know, we kind of touched on this a little bit earlier in the week Rita, what say you my friend? Well, it's critical to continue to Talk about the legacy of dave thomas. He's in our name His family on the board were here because he was linked to this cause. He was adopted And so it's important for us. I think no matter how far away we get from that name that we keep that persona alive Not just the name And so that people say oh dave thomas foundation for adoption. It could be x y z organization But that behind that name is his story and his his link to this cause So we hoped it, you know at a very basic we keep him very much alive on the website We always start with major presentations always start with who we are and why we're here We're constantly talking about that but not in a way that's over burdensome I don't think but in a way that respects and honors the legacy We would not be doing this work and children in foster care Would not be getting the care that we can give them without dave thomas And so I think it's it's especially on my shoulders on the board shoulders on senior leadership shoulders To make sure not only externally that people understand who dave thomas was and why he's so important to this cause But internally as we bring new employees in who may be younger who may have never seen a dave thoms commercial Or may not even either wendy's for all we know right they need to we need to make sure that they understand the legacy behind this name as well Now jill tagging on to this question Do you know what the wendy's corporation Is doing or how they're going to keep the dave thomas name alive so that you have some bridges there or Do you work in concert in some form or fashion with that? We do we work with them quite a bit And we can see strategically and they invite us they they open the door to us We get to do their you know annual conventions and things like that so we get you know We we get a position of being able to hear some of their strategic plans and things like that And so we do see what they're doing to keep um that message alive Um and I think for you and I what we talked about a little bit last week is The places where we can tell that story and where it's harder to and we can tell his story in our long form You know in our web materials and our blogs and things like that in the short form things that we're doing It's harder to get that in because we have so much to explain but one place been helpful for us is You know, we might get new donors in through short You know form digital ads But once they're on our newsletter list or on as a donor with us We send a series of communications at that point. That's the new donor series, right? And that's that education point that they get in an email a week out And then they get another email two weeks out then they get them and then that's where we can come back and sort of bring them into Oh, and by the way Dave Thomas started this whole thing And um use that as an education point Do you think that folks don't necessarily know the link? I mean like they they've heard the name But maybe they don't know I mean your branding your color scoping is the same as the wendy's brand um, but Do you feel like maybe there's a percentage of folks that are like, oh, I didn't know that are you or do you have any sense of that? There is definitely a percentage of folks that don't know that and both We measure that and so does wendy's by the way as as there are their cause of choice So we stay on top with research to know how many people know of that linkage And and how many don't so we are aware I love that good for you. That's that's absolutely fascinating Well, steven from miami florida writes in rita How do you and the board discuss or work on c-suite leadership succession planning? Is this a tough topic or one that is normal for the board if they're talking about it? Do they include you? What a good question, huh? Well, my first answer to that is yes, but if I don't know Then I don't but yes We listen we have put a lot of work into that very conversation over the past two three years And I would encourage folks to do that with their own organizations because The first knee jerk if you've never had this conversation with the board or the board starts having it with you is oh They're thinking about changing my position, right? I'm on my way out. That's not the case. This is this is good governance It's good practice for any organization and in fact It doesn't stop at the ceo when we started with succession planning It was across the board in this organization so that we lovingly call it alien abduction if something happens You know if I get abducted by aliens We can't we can't let the organization Stumble if jill gets abducted. We can't let those teams stumble So it's top down bottom up looking at skill sets succession planning who might be good In the event that that a leader leaves are we positioned to not stumble as we go forward for the ceo position? Look, we can do all the planning that we have it'll ultimately be the board's decision at some point They may want to do a national search even though we have an error parent selected And then they'll feel better about that choice So it is a difficult conversation for the first conversation, but it should become part of the routine of what an organization does Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's it's one of those courageous conversations. It's so tough But then once everybody kind of calms down a little bit Or if you're blessed to have a board board members or board representation that's gone through this with other organizations Then you know, it's a little bit more comfortable. But but I agree with you rita. You know, if anything just covid The lessons from that. I mean where we literally had leaders pass away You know in my community and I'm sure in your community. I mean we've lost a million americans We've lost leadership and then we have the aging out of our talent and c-suite Um, it's it's kind of a confluence of opportunity for some people So yeah Absolutely important. It's it's worrisome at times. It shouldn't be it shouldn't be Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. Well, steven. I hope that this helps you because it sounds like you're On this journey with your own organization And again, you know, that can be one of those frightening things But I have to say and I'm sure you ladies would you know, agree with me What's more frightening is when you don't have this In place and then your your crisis managing something that you could have really maybe Made it a lot easier or a lot tenable and so it's it's just a A stronger way to approach things because not everything stays the same You know nor nor should it nor should it? Well, this has been an amazing amazing week. Um, I I'm always so inspired by your work from All across all levels and I could go on and fangirl over this whole thing But it's really a pleasure to see Uh in my world everything from marketing and messaging caring through to leadership and action and policy It's just brilliant. And I hope that more folks can Look to the dave thomas foundation for adoption Outside the purview of what it is your mission is but just how you manage and structure It's very very powerful. Um, we don't have a lot of time But I'm very interested if there was something this week that you wished you had been able to say But that you didn't get asked. I mean, I know this is a crazy busy time for you You have a lot going on. This is a critical week for you. But was there something maybe that you missed or we missed Nothing from my end. I would just you know, if folks want to talk further We love talking to people about the the the worlds of nonprofits So if anybody wants to reach out, we're easy to find on the website We'd be delighted to have further conversations. Awesome. Awesome. You know before we let you go Rita, you gave us some chilling numbers and I would ask for you to Share that so that's how we leave this week with the importance Of statistically what's happening in our country How many children are in foster care as we speak? As we speak there are about 425,000 children who are in some kind of substitute care because of abuse or neglect or Um, a domestic violence substance abuse, whatever it is that makes that home unsafe for that child and of those children 113,000 have been permanently separated from their family of origin Their legal orphans in this country simply waiting for adoptive parents to step forward Amazing. It's it's a chilling number Um, I don't think we can hear it enough because it's actually Hard to to wrap our brain around I was working with a Child adoption advocate in in our community and she said Julia if you need a number Uh, if you need a way to process this number We have enough children every single night In foster care that will fill our our our nba arena where the phoenix suns play Yeah, yep. We've all been there. We've all been there So you can sit in a chair and look around that stadium and in your mind shift it to the number of children Just in my community and and so we need we need those links to reality and I appreciate you sharing that with us so that we can um understand the importance of this It has really been an honor to to have this time This is national adoption month and what's going to happen on saturday And tomorrow is national adoption day where courts and organizations open their doors And finalize the adoptions of children for the past 22 years more than 75,000 children have had their adoptions finalized on national adoption day It's the it is the best. Um You you can't turn on the news and and not see this. Um, I think rita you mentioned to me that you had Somebody uh in the judicial system say that was his best day of being a judge Yep, absolutely. Yeah, it's really awesome. Well, again, we've had rita soren and president and ceo of the dave thomas foundation with us Jill krumbacher senior vice president of Marketing and you heard this correctly and development Dave thomas foundation Again, i'm julia patrick and I have really been privileged to be Alongside these great women. They are amazing leaders You can follow both of them on social media, particularly in linkedin where a lot of times they'll share their knowledge and sector knowledge um as what they Encounter and how they lead you can really see those those lines And it's I think a great way to learn how to be successful in a topic that can be really tough and sometimes That is one of those magic pieces that we don't talk about enough as as how do we take a tough Topic and make it better. So again, ladies. Thank you so much. We want to thank bloomerang american nonprofit academy Your part-time controller be generous fund raising academy at national university staffing boutique non-profit thought leader and a non-profit nerd Okay, ladies. I know you have a busy day ahead of you and an even busier weekend. Thank you so much Thank you. Julie. It's been great talking to you. It really has. Thank you. Oh my gosh. It's been amazing We will um convene and stalk you even more. I'm sure as we move forward Stay warm do well and as we like to end every episode. We want to remind everyone Our viewers our listeners our guests ourselves to stay well So you can do well and take adoption into your heart everyone. Thank you so much