 Good morning, Highline Familia. My name is Doris Martinez. She heard her pronouns and services director of the Center for Cultural and Inclusive Excellence. Welcome to today's unity week program massing her incarceration by the numbers and a formerly incarcerated student panel. Names to numbers. Today we're going to do a land and space acknowledgement. We'd like to take a moment to acknowledge all indigenous and First Peoples of the land and space in which we live and breathe. For our community at Highline, we recognize that we are an occupied the Womish Coast Salish Muckleshoot and Puyallup lands. We thank all relations and tribes today as we hold space as a community. With each of us joining from different areas, we also invite you to reflect and think indigenous and First People of the land, and which you are coming from. Thank you. And now I would like to pass on the virtual mic to the lovely Harold Brooke, who will introduce this morning's presenters. Thank you for me for joining us today. Good morning Highline. My name is Harold Brooke and I'm one of your reference librarians. It's an honor and a privilege to be here with you today. Let's take a moment to soak in this year's theme abolition as healing, liberating our community abolition to end or stop healing to become healthy again, liberation to free or release community to be in a group. When you read this theme that can present itself as paradoxical, but when we reflect and think of how we exist in the world. There are many experiences of living in a world of systems that are complex and sometimes self contradictory. We invite you to reflect, listen and engage in this week of programs and connect with this theme. This is the second year that unity week has been virtual. We've all learned to adjust to be in community to care to survive and are finding moments to breathe. I'll introduce JJ. James Jackson is a formerly incarcerated college graduate who works as a statewide education re entry navigator and re entry scholars program director, serving the South Puget Sound and Peninsula counties from the evergreen state college in Washington state. His work provides outreach into prisons, work releases and community corrections offices recruiting currently and formerly incarcerated students for Washington states public colleges. His duties include college navigation, student support campus and institutional education. He's a student first at Highline College, and then at the evergreen state college, James held several different leadership positions. He's currently working with community partners in the evergreen education coalition for justice involves students students to expand evergreen at Green Hill School for boys, and a capacity building program to bring evergreen communities to Washington state correctional centers. His ultimate goal is to be a learning guide of sociology in an evergreen prison education program. Welcome JJ and panelists. We are so happy you're joining us for unity through diversity week 2021. Our program will go until 1055 when we'll take a short break. Take it away JJ. Now you're muted buddy. The dreaded mute button. Oh, it's so funny. So good morning Highline community it's so good to come back I am Highline alumni and I have have so many special connections to the community up there. And it is just, it's an honor to be invited to come and present to you all today. And so I'm going to open up my PowerPoint here in the share screen and get this ready so bear with me just for a second. Right. And so are we looking good panelists you know what this is supposed to look like. Yes. All right. And so my name is James Jackson. I am a formerly incarcerated college graduate, and I currently serve as a community reentry education navigator. What that means is that I help students who are incarcerated and students who are transitioning into our campus communities around the straight, the state with college navigation, continued supports, and I am also responsible for educating our communities around the issues that impact incarcerated and formerly incarcerated people and students to be more specific. And so, oh, and I use he him pre pronoun pronouns. Okay, so today, I'm going to be sharing with you a presentation called mass incarceration by the numbers, and then we will move into a formerly incarcerated student panel. So I, I always like to open these up with some acknowledgments and this this land acknowledgement I doors shared a great one for you up there a high line and this one is a land acknowledgement for the land that evergreen state college sits on so we begin our time together today by acknowledging the indigenous people of the medicine creek treaty, whose land on which the college stands, we acknowledge the squawks and people who are the traditional custodians of this land, and pay respect to the elders past and present of the squawks and island tribe. We also have a justice acknowledgement that was written by one of our professors at evergreen, and it's just really, really, really powerful. So, just this acknowledgement and we want to acknowledge stolen lives, lives ended too soon by what Ruth Wilson Gilmore calls an unequal distribution of premature death. In particular, we want to pay homage to George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery and countless others who have lost their lives to the bigotry that leads to ongoing personal mob and state violence. We want to pay homage to the many others who have died prematurely as a consequence of these structures. We started to hear it said about five years ago as a part of the movement for black lives, and we may need to remind ourselves for a little while yet. When black lives matter, everybody lives better. And so I always have to kind of take a moment of silence, after reading those, because I really feel them. Okay, this here is our language statement. When looking to engage with system impacted students from this marginalized population, please refrain from using stigmatizing language. Words such as offender, inmate, felon, ex-felon, and convicts suggest that people are no more than their conviction. Those negative labels only serve to dehumanize, retraumatize, and retraumatize the students we serve. We recommend humanizing language such as incarcerated people, formerly incarcerated people, returning citizen and justice-involved people, which centers the person, not the conviction. All right, so now we'll kind of get into the body of the presentation, and let me adjust something here so that my notes aren't covered. All right, an overview of mass incarceration. Today, we will barely scratch the surface of the numbers and how we got here. This presentation is intended to give you an overview of mass incarceration, and for those who want to dig deeper, I will leave you with some resources to do so. So we're going to look at the whole pie, so those are the numbers. We're going to look at a snapshot on how we got here, some popular analysis. Prison education and reentry reduced recidivism and formerly incarcerated, and then we'll move into the formerly incarcerated student panel. All right, so the whole pie 2020. Let's start with the numbers. Excuse me. Let's start with the numbers. According to prisonpolicy.org, the whole pie 2020, there are 2.3 million people incarcerated in jails, prisons, and detention centers in the United States. In the pie, you will notice the breakdown with the biggest slices going to state prisons and local jails. Next in order would be youth confinement and immigration detention. Sorry, I'll move some stuff around on my screen again. It's in the way. Excuse me while I get situated. Sorry about that. So in the pie, you will notice the breakdown with the biggest slices going to state prisons and local jails. Next in order youth confinement and immigration detention. In this instance, as of 2012, the US imprisonment rate was 700 people per 100,000. It is still the highest in the world today at 655 per 100,000. The number of prison stations with similar per are below 200 per 100,000, and many are below 100 people per 100,000 us and premise prisonment rates for black men as of 2015, or 2,613 per 100,000. Let those numbers sink in. Right. Probation and parole. According to this slice of the pie, there are 7 million people on community supervision in this country. Most people who return to prison do so not because they commit new crimes, but for technical violations of their probation or parole. In prison state transitioning people are released with $40 in a bus ticket. Many times conditions of release consist of weekly mental health, drug and alcohol treatment, UA so your analysis and probation check in appointments. Transition transitioning people are expected to find housing and employment as part of their conditions. If they have no family support. Imagine trying to keep up with those expectations. When they don't, they may be returned to prison or jail. They may be returned to prison or jail for violating conditions of their supervision. Right, so it's almost like a setup because if you don't have strong family support, and you're just kind of throwing out there you go right into homelessness and everything. It can be really hard to overcome those barriers. Okay. All right. All right, numbers by the millions. People impacted are not just those who landed jails, prison or detention centers. They are their family members and communities. People with felon status end up serving time behind bars. Regardless, they are still cast with the fellow label system impact people are those who have been to jail or prison. They are also those convicted of a felony who are not sentenced to confinement. And also their family members, I would even broaden that definition to whole communities who are impacted by the criminal justice system. And so we know in like black and black and brown communities. I mean, a lot of the men have been siphoned out of those communities right, which just adds to already, adds to the economic issues that are already impacting these communities and the right the most fastest rising number currently is women. Women are the being incarcerated at a higher rate than ever, and then anybody else at this moment in time. Okay, US incarceration compared to other countries. The United States holds 5% of the world's population yet we hold 25% of the world's prison population. I ask you, does this mean we are a less moral country whose citizens are prone to crime, or with this question be better framed as a socio economic one. While there may be a morality question here as you will learn that question lies in the laps of the policy and lawmakers on both sides of the political aisle. And we'll now go in and what kind of contextualize some of these numbers. With racial justice continuing to be the most important social issue of our times. It is a wonder that we don't hear more about mass incarceration. After all, as Michelle Alexander explains in her book the new Jim Crow mass incarceration is the continuation of the bondage of black bodies, the evolved form of Jim Crow segregation, and the continued continuation of racial cast in the United States. And so I just want you all to kind of take a second and look at this graph. And think about what jumps out at you. I do not want to overlook the number of white people impacted by the system because they do get caught up. Other whites make up the greatest percent of people incarcerated in the US, the gross racial disparities are evident. Is this because black people are predisposed to criminal behavior, or could something else be taking place here. The facts are that racial groups commit crimes at roughly the same rates. Why are the disparities so great. Right. And so I asked these questions, not necessarily for people for you to answer or whatever, but to get this marinating right and for you to maybe get curious about this and to look into it to yourselves right and I will give you some, some references and stuff where if you're interested you could start that research. This is probably the most scary evolution of mass incarceration that is currently happening. So in 2018 Michelle Alexander updated the preface in her book the new Jim Crow. There she identifies the next steps in the evolution of mass incarceration in the United States as the digital prison or surveillance control. Michelle Alexander explains and I quote while you may be set free from jail and expensive monitoring device likely will be shackled to your ankle. A GPS tracking device provided by a private company that may charge you around 300 per month. Even now for corporations earn a combined 200 million in revenue for their E monitoring services. While free, your movement may be limited making it difficult or impossible to get a job, get or keep a job, attend school, care for your kids or visit family members. Entire communities could become trapped in a in digital prisons that keep them locked out of the neighborhoods where jobs and opportunities can be found. That's pretty scary stuff. Alright, and so how did we get here. In her book the new Jim Crow Arthur Michelle Alexander argues that gains one in the civil rights movement unleashed a wave of white resentment and fear that led to a political backlash. He outlines how conservatives starting with the Nixon administration played into the racial fears of whites to bring them into the GOP. Due to the winds of the civil rights movement and a political correctness of color blindness politicians could no longer use explicitly racist strategy. Instead they use the rhetoric of crime. When referring to black people, while never mentioning race. There has been an understanding among whites evolved that criminal meant young black male. The racism of white folks was crucial to making mass incarceration, a viable system. On the other hand, Ruth Gilmore in her book golden good gulag identifies the loss of us manufacturing jobs as corporations looked overseas and south for cheap labor causing unemployment rates to soar in cities with large African American communities. Compound this with the rise of neoliberal policy making that led to the shrinking social where welfare nets, what, excuse me, that led to shrinking welfare nets and I got a little note in here the cold part is the same policy makers expanded corporate welfare at the same time while shrinking the security nets for the people, while resources for social programs went away, more dollars were directed towards prisons and jails. To exasperate things politicians began a propaganda campaign claiming that crime was out of control in America, while promoting law and order policies, when the crime rate was actually in decline. In the punishment imperative by Todd clear and Natasha Frost, the authors argue that most important the most important reasons for mass incarceration is philosophical. As the country moved away from a philosophy of rehabilitation rehabilitation to one of punishment. The political and public will became more punitive, rather than providing second chances through educational programs job training and substance abuse programs, the public called for a system that would incapacitate. They were prisoners criminals who broke the law they were unworthy of second chances. The perspective was not only about criminal prosecution, it is about political disenfranchisement prison gerrymandering shifted political power away from urban districts, where most black communities are located to mostly white rural areas. There is a familiar theme running through all the text I have highlighted in this slide. The disproportionate impacts on black and brown communities and our poor whites, as compared to middle and upper class whites. They all provide credible analysis as to how we got to the place of hosting the most complete social control system mass incarceration, the world has ever seen. A powerful tool and politicians wielded it to perfection by manufacturing a the social and political will for a drug war that is little more than a race war primary primarily pointed at black communities, a class war pointed at all poor communities, regardless of race. That was a long sentence sorry. Over the last 40 years this country went on a prison building bench like never seen before in world history. Politicians on both sides of political aisle created policies and laws that helped them to fill their new prisons. It's funny because every time like, you know, I read these notes and look at these slides and stuff. It's just impactful. Doesn't get any easier. So the war on drugs. I thought this slide I threw this slide in because I thought it relates so much with how we got here as it highlights the political shenanigans mass racism and media tactics employed to gain support for mass incarceration. So I just want you all to take a second and read this slide. Because a lot of times people academics and stuff. They will talk about mass incarceration and the consequences to the communities as unintended. Right. But these things were very intentional and this is evidence of that. And I'm going to check the chat in case because I don't have it up. See if I'm missing anything. Think I'm okay. Yeah, looks okay. I missed anything. And so we'll go on to the next slide here. All right, so the new cast 40, there are 46,000 collateral consequences to a kept felony conviction. A felony conviction or the scarlet f relegates people to perpetual second class citizenship, as Michelle Alexander puts it in her book the new Jim Crow. She makes reasonable arguments based in the empirical evidence that the fellow label is responsible for a new cast system in the United States. She highlights in her big book that while crime rates continue to drop prison populations are stable. The main driver of this stability is recidivism, high recidivism rates can be directly attributed to barriers are to the barriers erected by the felon label. Even if a person never returns to prison they are pushed to the margins trapped in poverty condemned by society for millions of formerly incarcerated system impacted people trapped on the lower rungs of society. This is their reality. And so, you know that this right here is really important to understand because the scar that those consequences just continue to relegate people to to the barriers right to marginalize them. It's just really hard to overcome that and get back into society and get get into an economically viable position. And so it leads to recidivism recidivism versus education as a formerly incarcerated person myself post secondary education while incarcerated show me that I was capable of learning and could be a successful student. I could be the seeds of hope that maybe I could do something different with my life. Due to circumstances I was unable to complete a degree while incarcerated. But when I got out I knew that I wanted to return to school, and that I did. I firmly believe that it is education and the hope for a better way of life that sustained my reentry. All of the bullet points outlined in this slide for me have proven to be true. Today I have an education that led to a career in student affairs that provides a living wage. The best part about it is I get to support others with the shared experience of poverty, racism, and incarceration to break the chains of poverty, the shackles of racism, and the cycles of recidivism that are generational. Excuse me, the cycles of recidivism and generational incarceration. When people ask me what do I think is the best tool in reducing recidivism. My answer is always education because knowing is half of the battle. Right and the numbers. The numbers here. It's actually 42 to 70 some percent, and that goes by a degree attainment level. And so, you know, students that are getting their as their chances of recidivate recidivating are reduced to like 15% students that gain their bachelor's degree, it drops to 5%. And people who are getting master's degrees it's not even register full right so about 0% of those people return to prison so education is a proven tool to combat mass incarceration. Okay, so, like I said, that I was going to leave you with some resources. This presentation barely scratches the surface as to the depth of mass incarceration and its socio economic ramifications. Do your own research. These resources are only the tip of the iceberg. Take a swim upstream by referencing the resources in these materials where you will find treasure a treasure chest of information. And so, on here, you know, the new Jim Crow of course Michelle Alexander has done some amazing work there, and it's a well research book with loads of references. The same with the golden gulag by Ruth Gilmore. Ruth Gilmore is a political economist. And so, if you're a political economy geek like me, you'll really enjoy that that book. The punishment imperative by Todd clear and Natasha Frost right that they, they also have their take on it but it's all well researched again. Understanding mass incarceration by James Kilgore is probably the most straightforward text there, and it just lays everything it's pretty amazing text to, and it just lays everything out very straightforward and very understandable. James Kilgore was a formerly incarcerated person he has recently passed away human targets by Victor Rios right. That is a really important book that is addresses the school to prison pipeline. Victor Rios himself was somebody who just barely made it out of the gangs and stuff in LA. And there's a chapter in that called the labeling height that talks about, you know, students as young as kindergarten start, start being labeled prison policy.org. This website right here is the information is continued continually updated, and there's just a plethora of articles, text in there that you can look into. Also, you can sign up, and then we'll send you updates continued updates with new when new things are happening as well. Vera Institute for Justice has done a lot of great work around mass incarceration, as well. And so those are, those are some great resources for those of you who are interested in learning more. All right, so next we will move into our formerly incarcerated student panel names to numbers. And so, if we can hear I'm going to, I'm going to stop sharing my screen here now. And if we can go ahead and bring in our panelists. And we could move into the panel piece. All right. Hello panelists. Welcome to unity week at Highline and if we can just start with you to introduce your names and pronouns and we can start with that with the first question I guess just introduce yourselves. And let's start with Gail let's start with Gail today and to just introduce yourself your names and pronouns and the question would be, excuse my phone here. Did you begin your education during our post incarceration. Okay. Hi, I'm gal for share. I go by she her pronouns. Um, so very brief to a very complicated story. I was incarcerated at 15. I did 25 years with a life sentence and due to new laws in Washington state I was released about a year and a half ago. And as far as my education, the first 10 years that I was at Washington correction Center for women they didn't really have any opportunities, especially those for us with a really long sentence and so about 2010 a small group of us some very dedicated we created a nonprofit program called freedom education appugiate sound known as pets. And at first we started we just had this desire for something better and something more for our lives and the culture and the institution and we were able to get volunteers that would come in and provide professors from different places that would, you know, provide classes for us and we didn't get any accreditation for it in the beginning but we started working really hard with other institutions and we're able to eventually get accreditation and build a program and right before I was released they were finally able to create a BA program there and I just really learned that education is really what gave me a voice and helped me, you know, find the direction I needed. Thank you, Gail. Let's go ahead and go with Catalina next. My name is Carolina lambda and I go by she her pronouns and so. Yes, my education started in in incarceration, I did a environmental based program through sustainability and prisons project. Where actually those certificates transferred eventually to the Evergreen State College. For credits. And so I really attribute that program with, you know, all the success that I've had in in reentry that was the pivotal point for me and set me up so. Thank you, Catalina and something that I forgot to say earlier is like the point of the mass incarceration presentation in this panel right is to get folks to begin to address, you know, you got to get educated and then begin to address any of your subconscious or subconscious bias for formerly incarcerated people and to understand that it's not about crime so much as it is a socio economic question as I stated earlier in the presentation and so I just wanted to restate that and we'll go ahead and go with Paris next. Did you begin your education during or post incarceration. Hello everyone, my name is Paris Miller. I was formerly incarcerated just completed a 21 year sentence. And I've, I completed, I started my, my education and like my second year of being incarcerated. You know I had an epiphany that basically I needed to invest my time into something that was, I would get a return on it. And therefore, you know I started education and it became my rehabilitation. Thank you Paris. Jordan. Yeah, so I'm Jordan. I just got out not that long ago after spending about the entirety of my 20s inside. And basically for me. I've always been a learner not really necessarily through school and like prior to incarceration. I learned I just learned a lot of stuff that didn't help me, and that didn't help anybody. And basically, during my incarceration, I took it upon myself to start self studying and learning. And basically, I just would start taking the different classes and programs that were offered that I felt like would help me. And so I just basically did that throughout my whole time. So, you know, all of us who are formerly incarcerated that are in this presentation today. We started to learn, or we started our educational pathways while and while incarcerated. And I can speak for myself like I said earlier I know it gave me hope and believe that like things could be a little bit different from me for me and so one of the things that I wanted to and I'm kind of going a little bit off script script here so Gail. What is it that you did that was so amazing this year, as far as your internship. So, um, I've just learned through years before I was released I learned the impact of legislation right and I know that there's a lot of people out there that want to, you know, implement change and stuff like that but sometimes they really don't understand the way policies are actually implemented within the prison or in these different ways of trying to restructure sentencing. So, um, you know, it's really hard because especially growing up inside a prison you're always left with this burden of feeling like because you're a felon especially, you know, for some of our charges that you're never going to be able to pursue these things that are so passionate to you and. So in November, I was able to apply for a very competitive internship program at the state capital, and I did not think that I was going to get accepted and the more I was able to follow through with some of the steps of the application and the interviews and the different things I started recognizing like hey I may really have a shot again, you know a lot of these other students that are applying that come from like Stanford and all this. Yeah, and so not only was I chosen out of a mass amount of people that applied but I was put in with Senator Jeannie Darnell's office and if those of you who don't know who she is. She is the leader in sentence reform and juvenile rehabilitation and human services and she's the senator and to come in so I got to work with her in her small office for four months and got to really understand the challenges of passing laws and legislation and what needs to really be done because sometimes people just don't understand what's needed and they don't understand like that we're human and that yes we may have made mistakes but there are so many of us they get released that give real impact back to our communities and so it's definitely something that I plan on pursuing more now that session has ended and yeah it's been a lot to me. Amazing gal thank you for sharing that and congratulations on all that you have accomplished in the short time since you've gotten out and started going to school amazing work. Catalina what where are you at right now and what and tell us a little bit about. Also I would like to hear about your job as well so you're your act what you're doing academically in your job. Yeah, so I graduated with my undergrad from the Evergreen State College and I'm five weeks away now, currently from my master's in public administration so after I did my undergrad I, I followed into the MPH track. Also, you know how how Gail said, a lot of, I'm really interested in in policy right and all of that and so I have three communities that I really are my focus areas which are, you know justice impacted people, you know whether they're incarcerated after like that whole realm disabilities communities and also some immigration. And those are, for me, first and second people impact impacts right and I, you know I truly believe that people that have those impacts really have the power with their voice to make the most impact right and change systemically. So, and I'm currently in my role. You're on meat. Currently in my role sorry about that I work at the Office of the correction on beds, and I'm the early resolution community relations manager. And so I, we work a lot of systemically and also individually on cases that and complaints that incarcerated people are bringing to us and we have oversight to the 12 presidents and work releases in the state of Washington. Amazing work Catalina and congratulate relations on your upcoming graduation with your masters and public administration. Um, and Jordan, um, let's hear a little bit about your academic and career pathway but I also want to hear a little bit I want you to share a little bit with the audience on the work that you're doing with iris steinhoff. So right now I'm a full time student at evergreen. And so I'm working on two books, and I'm in two of iris classes right now one's called, well they're both under reimagining community safety and so one is basically all seminar. And, you know, our feedback with that and then the other is basically student originated studies. And in doing so, I'm working on two books right now. One is justice involved. And the other one is a philosophy consciousness studies type book. And basically, yeah I my career pathway at this point is I feel like I've come to a place where a lot of what I've been studying and what I've been spending my time on is all kind of coalescing and I feel that I look at at the world as a whole now rather than like me versus it right which is how I think a lot of us look at it for a long, long time. And so basically, my idea is like my books are my way of giving back and trying to help. Because, like I said, I don't feel like we can help ourselves without helping each other and vice versa. Jordan, thank you and an amazing work and and I appreciate you as one of our great deep thinkers and one of one of the things that I didn't mention here is all four of the students on the panel are evergreen students. And, and I'm evergreen and highlight alumni. And so just thought I should throw that out there. I work steinhoff the faculty that I'm that I've talked about with Jordan has done a lot of teaching in prisons and has been very very instrumental and a lot of work that we do to educate our community around the issues of incarcerated people and reentry. Paris, Paris, let's, let's, why don't you tell them about, you know, some of the work that you're doing but also tell them about your recent honor from last Saturday. Thank you so much. So last Saturday, I gave a keynote speech for evergreen, the art of giving. And it was surreal, you know, it was a blessing to be able to talk to the donors to potentially invest in others, you know, you know, they asked me to do it and I was like yes, absolutely because I've been a recipient of scholarships and I know what scholarships can do for others. Also, I work with JJ reentry scholars. That's another honor and blessing to work alongside my mentor towards assisting people and giving it back to my community. I also landed an opportunity to take Toastmasters into Green Hill JRA to help the youth develop a voice to be effective speakers and be able to articulate what they feel and convey that in a manner that they can get assistance. Again, it's surreal from where I come from as one to at-risk youth. So to be able to invest in those lives and, you know, help strengthen our community from the youth standpoint because they are the next generation. It's an honor. Thank you Paris and like congratulations on the honor and thank you for all of the work that you do. And one of the things that I want to say about doing these types of things in the youth prisons and adult prisons and everything. One of the proven facts is that education actually makes these facilities safer. Right. It breaks down the racial politics that happen. Because that's what you do in a classroom right you start educating yourself you start working together, and these other things begin to crumble right so they actually make prison safer and then, when we talked about the recidivism rates of those that get education, it actually makes our community safer, and it saves taxpayer dollars. So it's like, I think it's 10,000 a year to educate some of these are like the rough numbers to educate somebody $47,000 a year in Washington state to incarcerate somebody. And so we'll go on into the next question here. And this one. Let's start here with, we'll start with you Paris. Name one barrier you have faced during your transition. I would say the greatest barrier that I face in my transition is being judged by my old behaviors. I'm just seeing in seeing me in light of the current behavior, you know 15 years incarceration infection free full time school full time employment as an engineer, wanting to invest in my community and all ways. The concept of you're a felon and you still have time to do has been a barrier. While I was incarcerated you know the policies in place that tried to keep me from education, yet with tenacity, which was the theme of this week's speech. I'm not forced to those things and believe in myself. You know the system wasn't necessarily set up to assist me in seeing myself in a better light. So, that was my greatest, you know, barrier and transition just being judged by all behaviors. This is somewhere I have to throw big props out to the highlight community and the Center for leadership and service where I started my leadership journey right was that community hugged me in and allowed me to operate transparently right. I didn't judge me maybe there was some I don't know I didn't see it, but I wasn't judged. And that helped me to, I guess, exercise that internalized convict that was in me, and the paradigm shift from that to scholar to student to student leader is critical in my journey and where I am today. And so, just wanted to throw that out there. Catalina name one barrier you have faced in your time I don't know if it necessarily has to even be in your transition but you're a barrier as a formerly incarcerated person. I always like to touch base on this more specific to like I think there's an array of challenges that can happen. But for me specifically one that always stands out is housing. And so I, I did a big move all the way I'm originally from Eastern Washington and, you know, my, you know, my goal was to move here and to go to Evergreen and so I had to move all the way across you know, wallstone probation which is also another barrier but move all the way to Columbia and I just remember that I was two weeks away I had gotten my financial aid scholarships, everything was set right, but I couldn't find housing two weeks away from school starting and no housing moving across the state with a child. Right. And it was, you know, I, I didn't know what to do. But I was willing to. I had to start school, like it was important and so I was willing to move into a motel right and just live, you know, however I could until finally, you know, I reached out to my network right and my community. And, you know, they were able to help connect me with the landlord but, you know, he was very hesitant, you know, and I had to explain my whole background right something that happened so many years ago that wasn't me anymore. But you know, basically I made him believe in second chances right. And so, you know, that's always a big thing that, you know, has one of the barriers, right, even moving I've lived in the same place for the last, you know, six years but even moving to another rental, like really the only way out is to buy a house right now you're not, you know, that's not a thing but for renting they're still, you know, going to always continuously pull this background, you know, so. I can definitely relate to that because when I transferred from mine to to Olympia right I came down the screen before and started seeing what I might be able to find a place. And basically I was told no everywhere no nobody with felon status. Luckily I had through the work I done like Catalina was able to reach into my network and find a place that way and so housing. Just so you all know is the number one barrier, formerly incarcerated people face in their transition. And I also want to say that it's a barrier for a lot of people with even people without, you know, backgrounds and so super important that we begin to address that issue. Let's go. Let's go next year, Jordan, do you want to. So, about two minutes till up till break and so do you want to go with a barrier real quick, Jordan. Yeah, just real quick. I think it's something that we can all relate to whether you know you're an ex incarcerated person or not but it's just like you find yourself in positions in life where you put up walls. So, I mean this is something that we all face all the time and it's never ending but it's like, taking them down. Thank you. Thank you Jordan. Um, looks like we, that was a quick answer so Gail, do you want to, you want to shoot at this one real quick. Yeah, for me it was isolation. I spent so many years programming so much and schooling and working and around positive people that I had created, you know, within that environment and releasing coming home to a community I'd never been into my little old parents and then COVID hit two months later and it was just really hard for me to not have a lot of that programming and positive support system. So learning how to rebuild that out here in a community that you don't even know anything about. Yeah, that definitely had to be tough and I remember having some long conversations with you. You know, I would like to say is like, Gail, Jordan and Paris, I started working with them before they were released and preparing the transition into our campus community and everything. And like I said earlier, Catalina and I were actually we started at Evergreen the same time and so she, she, she's like my classmate. But I think I think we're going to take a five minute break right now so you know if y'all need to do what you need to do and come back at 11 o'clock and we will, we'll just, we have two more questions and then we can open it up for Q&A for the last bit of the panel here. Thank you. Welcome back Highline family. We'll now resume with questions for our guest panelists, feel free to submit your questions in the Q&A feature at the bottom of your screen as we move along. If you have any problems just pop into the chat and let us know. Thanks. Back to you JJ and panelists. Welcome, welcome back everybody and you know just another thing that I really want to reinstate. It is less about crime in our country than it is about social economic issues and control systems of control. Everybody to kind of think about the emotional labor that it takes for these students to come and share so personally, right. And the goal, right, really of this whole presentation is for the audience to really challenge any of those, like I said, conscious and subconscious biases that they may have from the conditioning they received from the messaging that we get in our society, right. So we'll move back in and then we'll be able to open it up for questions from the audience here in just a couple minutes but I think this is a really important question for our panelists. In one goal have achieved, and it does not have to be in centered in education if it is that's fine too, but I just want to open that up for you all to be able to pick what has been a very important goal for you. As you have transitioned back in. Oh, let's. Let's start. Let's start. Let's see who didn't join. Let's go with you, Jordan. For me. It's always just about basically growing everything is growing and learning and I feel like when we lose side of that or when when that's not our priority. It's like stagnant and we get lost. And so for me, a goal that I think that I've achieved or at least that I'm achieving is this like the continuation of pushing myself out of my comfort zone because I feel like that's one of the most important things we can do is put ourselves in uncomfortable situations, because that's where we grow and that's where I feel like, and I'm sure you guys can relate. Those of you that have been in. It's like, that's the thing that made us make that time worth it and that's what made us make prison do something for us is obviously we're in an uncomfortable position anyway, but it's like putting yourself in even a more uncomfortable position for your own benefit like for your own self growth, you know, like a diamond doesn't turn into a diamond without the pressure, you know, and, you know, a Phoenix doesn't rise without the fire. And so I feel like just continuing to put myself in those situations and not be stagnant would be would be the goal that I at least keep, keep doing, I don't know about achieved I don't know if you can achieve that one. Thank you. Thank you for sharing Jordan. Let's let's take that question over to Gail. Yeah, I definitely relate a lot with what Jordan said I think for me it's overcoming a lot of the insecurities that I had, knowing that I was going to get released and, you know, being inside of an institution since you are a small child, and then realizing that you're going to go out into the community I didn't know like what I'd be able to have a conversation and not feel awkward, would I be able to go into a store and know how to pay for things or utilize the internet and a cell phone and all of the strengths that I've created within myself but not knowing what that was going to look like in, you know, society and so I think that for a long time it was really hard for me to put myself out there. There's uncomfortable situations like Jordan was talking about but then being able to recognize like I am a strong woman and I value who I am as a person now today and there are certain things that I want to achieve and just know that, regardless of what that looks like to keep pushing forward and eventually insecurities are starting to die away a lot but it's, it's still a challenge, you know. Yeah. Yeah, thank you Gail. Paris. One goal that's reoccurring and I'm gonna be doing for the rest of my life is being a beacon of light for people that need it. You know, the earliest parts of my years were brought negative negative response towards my actions towards my family legacy. And I told myself, you know, I will never do that again and today I'm successful in forging, you know, better results through my actions. And I've gotten a ton of great feedback from my community and my approach, you know, being called a professor or doctor. I haven't done credentials yet, you know, people push me to a status and push me out for front and I'm not scared of it, you know, it's my position and I take it on. Thank you. Thank you Paris. Carolina. For me, it has been being a mother being present, right. That's a really important role. You know, I'll share my child is autistic his name is Zachariah he's like, you know, he's, he's everything I you know I started to learn read books like I wanted to be this present, you know, parent for my child and I really attribute a lot of you know, everything I've learned, like I've learned through a different lens, you know, through him, right. Just, you know, everything that I do really is for him and so me being able to be, you know, a stable unit for him really sets, you know, everything up differently for me moving forward. Thank you, Carolina, and I just know from being your friend. You're an amazing mother, and I see your strength your tenacity, right, I see that in all of you, right strength and tenacity, and one of my goals right. So when I graduated when it came time to graduate from Highline, they threw me an option out there where I could actually get like my high school diploma. Right. And so I was like, what, I can have my high school diploma. And so I was like, yeah, I signed up to get get that and so that I don't know if that was necessary a goal at that time but it was just really cool to get that. Okay, so we, we will let's see that. Well, Gail. Sorry, I almost forgot to ask you a goal. You achieved. I kind of already went through it just like overcoming my insecurities getting into the state capital and doing a lot of the work there, stuff like that. You did I'm sorry. I'm sorry I got that I missed you. Okay, we'll move into the next question. Aha moment, the moment things clicked for you. Right, the moment things clicked for you that maybe things could be a little different for you in life. We'll start this time. Let's start with Paris. This time. This moment that you know I had come, I signed up for a computer course. And it's a 24 month course and I, you know, kind of slated in six months. And I recognized that was a nerd, you know, I had like, like really found my identity, like in one course, and that opened up the door for me to sign up for another course and I slayed it. My tech design. You know I was not just a product of my, my, my circumstances, you know, and like I said, you know rehabilitation, what it looked like for me was education. It wasn't policy it wasn't correction it wasn't any of those things it was being lost in a book and learning some new concept. Thank you Paris and I just want to remind the audience to that you can start throwing your questions in the Q&A, if you haven't already, and we will go to Catalina next on the aha moment question. Yeah, for me, it was during incarceration and I, you know, I wanted to pursue something after, you know, I was gaining all these skills in there and I wanted to do something for myself after and so. I had with one of the interns in the sustainability and presence project, the graduate student. You know I had this conversation, you know about what if I want to go to college like I want to pursue education how do I get there what are the steps right, and also, I was like, will you help me right. It was a moment where I really started to use my voice and ask for help right these are tools that I, that I learned that I didn't necessarily have before right and that's how I started building this network and community of people and so that was, that was my aha moment with with him and it just really, you know set me up for this planning and what I've been able to to accomplish. Thank you Catalina and for those that you that don't know what sustainability and prisons project is. It's actually one of evergreens service or yeah service center service centers. And they have sustainability programs in all 12 state prisons and for example I believe Catalina you did the butterfly program. And that's where they were working with endangered species of butterflies. Another example is they have a turtle program right where the are Washington state Tom per pond turtles were getting these shell diseases, and they would pull them out the vets would do surgery on them, and then the incarcerated technicians and that program would take care of them until they were ready to be re released right. And so they have different programs and all the different they got like a frog program and these different sustainability programs it's really cool. And, and it also tracks some of those technicians on their way to evergreen to. So they get they get like a certificate that they can in our certificated learning process where they can get up to 15 evergreen credits. Um, let's go ahead and go with Jordan on the on the aha moment question the moment things clicked for you. So me I'd say the moment things clicked for me was when, when I stopped. I guess stopped having the feel like had to prove things and going from a place of of really deep darkness to a place of like all life is sacred and really just. I think that's more more than a paradigm shift but but I'll call it that for now like just that paradigm shift in and of itself. It's basically the opposite of what I was where I was mentally before and emotionally and even. You know just living, living a life where where all you care about is yourself or you're just in fight or flight survival mode all the time. To that shift of of actually caring about the world and caring about the people around you and seeing that that you know not only is your own life sacred but but all life is sacred. And thank you Jordan. Thank you for sharing that with us. Gail. Yeah, so for me. So I spent the first 10 years in prison, lost and broken I was fighting the staff all the time I spent most of my time in segregation and in 2007. I actually flying me down on a private jet to segregation in Arizona because they didn't know what to do with me anymore and I remember being on the plane. And it was the two pilots and security staff and me and they were having these conversations about green energy and taxes and elections and I realized I had not a single clue about anything they were talking about. And I just sat there and realized like I had spent these years of my life being so consumed with my own internal issues and politics of the prison and so when we landed and I was finally able to buy a walk man. I started listening to npr and talk radio and I became borderline obsessive about learning about things in the world and it eventually shifted my perspective to where when you realize the poverty that's going on in Haiti or the crisis in the Middle East like you, you are almost incapable of feeling sorry for yourself no matter what your situation is here a lot of times because there are so many bigger problems. And I think that recognizing my own. Nuitivity around the whole world is really what shifted me completely as a person. Wow, that's that's incredible. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And so, I know for me my moment was after I received. So I was 36 years old when I got to prison didn't even have a GD, no skill, no trade. I knew how to do was sell drugs and party at that time in my life right broke I was very broken and everything. I had to get a GD right to get a better pay grade in the prison industry job this is why I decided to get my GD right. Once I got my instructor miss Henderson is her name. She got my scores back called me to office and she's like Mr Jackson, your scores are really high. You should think about some of these college courses they at the prison I was at they had a business program with the local college and they had some electives right. And I told miss Henderson I was like miss Henderson. I'm not here for that I'm here to get paid and get on this way pile right, but miss Henderson seen something me that I couldn't see and kept calling me to her office until she talked me into taking a couple of the electives I took cultural anthropology and a counseling course, and they had a real, you know, classroom environment we had classrooms there and everything, and I super enjoyed it, and I found out that I was kind of smart, right, and that maybe things could be different for me. And so that was the moment that said I still had a lot of personal healing and growth to do. I had disciplinary issues kind of like what Gail was talking about, got transferred to a yard where they didn't really have anything going but it was there that I did the healing right that I realized if I didn't figure out I was going to die in prison. And so I got humble, right, I accepted responsibility for my choices and decisions for gave myself for gave others and learn to love myself again, and that cleared the way for me to be successful, because it wasn't just about the book smarts. I had to be, I guess, emotionally smart as well. And so, um, those are the questions that that we have for the panel do we have any questions I don't see anything in the Q amp a am I missing that or said it is there any questions anybody would like to ask the panelists let's see I'm looking to chat here. Okay. This is a great one. How do you each practice self care, and we'll start with Gail. Yeah, that's hard. I'm coming home. So many responsibilities I'm taking care of two old sick parents all the time. But I think for me self care means like when I start feeling overwhelmed or I get too anxious, regardless of what my obligations are whatever it is like I need to put myself first. So if I have to step away or cancel a meeting or, you know, like just to take a minute to like remind myself I'm finally home. This is like, I need to be so grateful for every little thing that I have an opportunity to and sometimes I can get so lost in the everyday of what it means to exist out here and I lose sight of that sometimes so for me it's just reminding myself of how grateful I am and that there are so many people that still are struggling to get to this place of freedom. Thank you, Gail. Let's go with Jordan next on that. So for me, for one I got like a five month old German shepherd puppy so he gives me a lot of stuff to do and I feel like in and of itself self care you know like taking care of something else. And that and I would say writing, you know, I feel like writing is super underappreciated when it comes to like processing things and actually like transforming your life. And if you think I'm wrong, right for 20 days straight from your own. Nice Jordan, thank you and let's go with Catalina on self care. Um, so for me, for me it's spending quality time with my family. But, you know, I think, you know, on the back end of that there was a lot of like building up to these goals that I had for you know after you know release and so there was a lot of community work and you know a lot of, you know, advocate work and all this stuff and to build build build right. My resume to build who I am to build the presence and you know there was a time where it was just so much I would you know completely book myself up right and then I started to realize like if I'm giving giving consistently I have nothing to put back right to myself or to my family. And so um, and so you know I learned how to say no right I said no I don't I'm not going to do that meeting sorry I can't show up or you know all of that and then I was able to give back right and then really spend that intentional quality time with my family because they deserve right for me to be there with them as well so yeah. Thank you Catalina super important Paris. For me. I have a different perspective on self care. And a lot of people don't agree with me but what I've done for self care is serve others, you know, um, I think that's the one selfish thing that I do that when I help somebody it's almost as though when it's done and I get the smile. And that a little bit like I'm, I'm accomplishing something, you know, um, I don't know how to say no so I may need to talk to Carolina. So she can help me with that one. But my family members also tell me the same thing like you know you're always running. There's a lot of work to do so you know I don't find ways to rest or anything like that. I just say yes let's get it done. And we'll deal with all the rest of that afterwards so. Yeah thank you Paris and you can learn to say no to me. So self care for me is it's really hard, and I haven't been great at it of late I am. Honestly I'm just getting back to a place where I've been feeling good. Since probably the beginning of December it's just been really crazy mental health has taken a hit physical health has taken a hit and everything. And so, but how I've been practicing is since the sun come out getting out and taking walks, exercising the doors doors will probably be surprised to hear that, you know, because when I was a high line. I was extremely fit, extremely fit weight about 150 pounds. I now way closer to 190. Anyway, so you know just getting back to some of those those practices and also unplugging right like at the end of the day unplug. I just say okay this is it I'm done, you know and some some days that's harder to do the other days but it's super important, right and then and then do those other things around the house that need to be done. And so, I think just being conscious of my mental and physical health which leads to a healthy spirit. It looks like we have a couple of questions in the q amp a. Can I ask you one of them. We have, I imagine that it was hard to connect with new people when you knew that they may have preconceived notions about you based on your past. How did you all approach building trust, trusting relationships and networks to support your transition outside and overcome imposter syndrome. I'm going to let you all, whoever wants to jump in on this one was popcorn it. I'll just say for me. I find that just being extremely honest and truthful right in the very beginning can for one bill trust if the person is willing to accept that. And for to can have through a lot of BS if they're not willing to accept it and, you know, where you stand like you just like for me I just, I just tell people like I'm not the person well I was in for, and I'm just super transparent and honest and wherever it goes from there, that's, that's up to, you know, what's up to them for real Jordan that's that's a great answer and that's how I operate as well so let's let's let Catalina take that one and then we'll go to the next question for for Paris and Gail. Yeah. You know, JJ has a saying that he stands on a story right and I really like that, you know, I really lead with my story, you know, really and I, you know, and that's the message right and I believe there's a way to educate people to break down those stigmas and, as Jordan said as well you do, you know, either accept it or you don't and, you know, in regards to imposter syndrome I think you know yeah and those, you know, when applying to certain positions or when I'm in meetings with with DLC right somebody that used to actually, you know, in what I was, you know, in their care right or per se in prison and so when I have those meetings those moments will happen when I, you know, when I really think I'm not worthy but I have to just consistently like yes you are you've worked hard you're not that person anymore and you, you know you are, you are powerful and you have a voice and so, you know, I just talk my way out of those those situations when my mind wants to go there. Thank you Catalina. Thank you. The next question. Thank you all for sharing your insights and stories. Who would each of you like to professionally collaborate with and what role model or person like two questions what role model person you admire past or present would you want to have dinner with. Yeah, you want to take that one. So as far as collaboration I really want to remain engaged with some of the legislators that I've gotten to know that it's not just political for them like they actually care about helping to uplift impoverished communities and sentence reform so I want to continue that work with them as far as who I would love to have dinner with so there's an activist slash attorney Brian Stevenson, and he's from down south but he, he really puts himself out there and makes his position very vocal on racial disparities and the history of the community and how it's translated into the way that we sentence individuals and he single handedly is the reason why I'm even free today because of a court case he had with a juvenile and you took it all the way up to the Supreme Court juvenile that had life without and every time I hear him speak in an interview or a TED talk he's just so passionate and care so much about his work and yeah I would love to have dinner with him. There was another question in the chat and in Paris I don't do you feel comfortable answering that question it looks like it was dressed to to you. I wasn't addressing me I just reposted it because it was in the regular to you so you've seen it. Okay, and they reposted it in the question so yeah. For the for the most part, I don't identify. I'm like in this gray area, you know, I understand where those that I used to hang out with where they lie you know what what some of their struggles. I'm not comfortable in that in that arena anymore. And I'm not comfortable in this new identity either, because it feels like I have to prove a lot you know in order to be validated almost. I will say this though. So sometimes it appears as though it's easy to revert back to old behaviors, their old behaviors and you changed them for a reason. So the concept of going back to them is not an option. So, when I feel like I'm overwhelmed with circumstance, or decisions, or pressure from the people that are around me. I find myself in that moment you know what am I meant to learn in this moment, you know, how do I push through this without going backwards, and most times I find myself making a better decision. So I hope that answers your question. It's a it's a difficult thing transitioning from prison culture to this culture, and some of us have spent a significant amount of years living in that culture. So it almost is learned behavior that we have to unlearn when we come out here and there was a thing. I will share a tidbit me and Jordan used to be sellies. We had to theorize about how the world would receive us. So we would talk about being transparent. And in that transparency, those that accept you will be the those that will be along for your ride and those that don't will people be people that you just surpass and move on from. That's a great answer and I will say this. For me, it was the realization that if I returned to old behaviors, right, then I will return to prison, right. And there's more to that right but I mean, that's just a quick simple answer for that one. If I returned to my old behaviors I would end up in prison and I also knew that I would probably spend the rest of my life in prison. And so it's been, it's been easy as far as I goes. I do want to thank our panelists, right. I want to thank you all so much for making yourself vulnerable as you do. I'm so proud of all of you and I'm and I'm so looking forward to the future of working with you as we all move, you know, in our careers and our education and stuff. And thank you so much again for coming and sharing with the highlight community. Thank you. Again, JJ and yeah. We're so proud of you and we're honored that you joined us today. And thank you for all that you offer our community.