 Welcome to Shrink Rap Hawaii. My name is Steven Philip Katz. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist right here in Honolulu and we have a great show because I have a great guest with me today. I'd like to introduce to you Mr. Dave Mitchell who is the owner and partner of Employee Assistance of the Pacific. He's licensed mental health counselor in the state of Washington and also a certified employee assistance professional. You got it. It's a mouthful. So before we get into the brick-a-brack of what you do, where are you from? I originally grew up Washington State. The desert side of the state. East of the mountains. Where there are tumbleweeds and nuclear power plants and not much else. And how did you start doing what you do? I started off working at a crisis line, volunteering at a crisis line in college. Found out I enjoyed doing that. Crisis line, you mean on the phone? On the phone. Somebody calls up, I want to kill myself. That's right. That's right. You never knew what you were gonna get and just that was a volunteer gig through college and like doing it. That brought me into psychology. Thought I'd be a school counselor eventually until I tried that out for during my practicum part of my graduate degree and figured out I'd probably end up murdering children or something if I were gonna do that 40 hours a week. So I chose not to go further in education but kind of more generic counseling degree that ended up serving me better because I wanted to get into family systems. So I ended up with a master's in child development and started a private practice after I worked in a couple agencies in the psychiatric hospital for a while. Started a practice in Washington State and did that for 20 some years. And how did you end up in Hawaii? Oh my wife and I were she joined the practice. We were trauma responders for a number of companies. We also volunteered with a critical incident stress debriefing team locally. And then we started volunteering through the Red Cross as disaster mental health volunteers. And 9 11 happened and they asked us if we wanted to go do that. And we said, Sure, why not? What was that like? Oh, the combination of the worst, most challenging moments of my career in my life and the funniest moments of my life in my career. It was just people would think funny. Yeah, if you ever have hung around New York firefighters or cops or firefighters and cops together. It's just amazing humor and again, the hardest work we've ever done. But we it changed us and we came back after that and after we recovered from. So but what does that look like? You know, to somebody that wasn't there? Yeah, right? You're hired to do counseling. Is that what you're doing? We were volunteers. So we hired, but we were trained to do counseling and we they shipped us to New York as soon as planes could fly. And they they asked us if anybody in the room had done any work with firefighters and we've done that for 20 years. So we both said we have. And so they shipped us to a Jesuit retreat center on Staten Island, where a lot of the firefighters were from good Catholic boys, most of them. They hung out at this Jesuit retreat center and we took care of firefighters and cops for 10 days. These firefighters and cops were people who were first responders at 9 11. Correct. Correct. Wow. And then they were having to sift through the rubble there. Yeah. Yeah. There were other volunteers that were there sifting through the rubble. The firefighters. A lot of times that the only way they could go see the site was if they brought a Red Cross volunteer. So we would partner with them and go take them to the site and cops and we'd take DNA samples back and forth with them. And you mean to see if somebody they knew was in? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. You'd find DNA samples or pieces of bodies in the landfill and come back and we're pretty traumatized and pretty fried after a day of doing that. And our job was to take care of them. We had eight other counselors that I supervised there. So our job was to take care of them and help them get through that. So that changed you, I'm sure? Yeah, it really did. We came back after that and said, life short, what do we want to do? And we had launched our children. And so this job in Hawaii opened up running another EAP. And I was on the next plane. My wife followed thereafter. And so we came to Honolulu eight years ago. And I ran an EAP and employee assistance program for child and family service for about four years, three and a half, four years. And just loved every moment of doing that. So for people that don't know what an employee assistance program is, couldn't you tell me? Yeah, it's a it's a program that employers use to take good care of their employees. If you have a company like City of City and County of Honolulu or County of Hawaii or Queens or, you know, we have 150 different companies that hire us to take care of the emotional needs of their employees. So their employees can call us up and get free confidential counseling through us. How did the employees know to call you up? They have posters in their workplaces, they go to HR and HR says here, go call your EAP and they give us a call. So so somebody's got I don't know what what kind of a problem would they? Oh, usually marriage and family is the number one problem. So they're having relationship problems with their husband or wife or kids or kids. Yep. Yep. People have problems. So then they they they see a poster and the poster has your phone number and they call you up. They call us up. So the employer doesn't even sometimes know that they're saying they never know how do you get paid? Employers pay us upfront. Take care of all their employees for a year. Flat fee, flat fee. And then we let them know how many people have used the service. We will give them a report at the end of the quarter that says 17 people came in and three of them came in for marriage and family and two came in for drugs and alcohol and one came in for stress. So they get an idea of what what's going on with their people. That's right. Not specifically this person. That's right. They don't want to know. They don't get to know. They know that if they knew everything, nobody would come to EAP. Right. It's totally private. Somebody should tell that to the military. They have similar services. Yeah. But I know that we get military where I work as a therapist, we get military personnel. And the way it works is very funny, right? Because everybody in the military is covered by trike here. Right. But if you are active duty, if you want to see a shrink outside of the military, you have to get pre authorization. Yeah. So you have to go to your commander and say, I have a problem. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a problem. And I know they have this other thing now where they sometimes they hire therapists to just walk around the base. That's right. My wife is one of those who's done that in the past. They're called M Flaks. M Flaks. Yeah, that's a good deal. It is. It's confidential, private. Right. It doesn't show up in their record or anything else. Right. But if it's a more long term thing, like a relationship problem, then yeah, it's a problem. And the funny thing is their spouse can come. Yep. They don't need pre authorization. That's right. That's right. Yeah. But I digress. So somebody comes. I say, you know, I saw the poster at work. And my wife's crazy. I need some help. What do I do? First of all, they call Employee Assistance of the Pacific, which is our company. And we make sure they're covered by one of 150 employers that we serve. We do a screening on the phone, find out why they're coming in what they're looking for, tell them what their benefit is. And we get them into one of our 4647 providers. Let's like, you know what? I'm like, show and tell kind of guy. I know. So let's, let's pretend I'll call you up, right? Yeah. Hi, my name is Steve Katz. And I'm having a problem. My wife's crazy. And the kids are going nuts. And I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm ready to leave or shoot myself. Can you help me? Sure. On the phone, we would say, I'm glad you called. Let me verify that you've got this benefit. What company do you work for? Yes, you're covered. Tell me more about what's going on. We want to screen to make sure they're not suicidal or jumping off a bridge or something like that. So we screen everybody. We find out whether they want to bring whether they want to come in by themselves or with their spouse or with their family. And then we assign them to a counselor we think would best work with them that Matt that their specialty matches this person's needs. And so I can come see you for a year, two years, how long you think you're gonna take to fix me? Good question. Good question. That's right. Most of our companies have a six visit per year limit. So it's short term, solution focused work. It's not traditional psychotherapy where people think you lie on the couch and tell somebody your problems for years on end. It's it's a solution focused. We got six visits. What are we going to do approach? So you can make this problem go away in six visits? A lot of times. Yes, it's surprising. Wow. Most people out there are fairly functional and don't need therapy necessarily. That's not my wife. I know. She's crazy. Most people don't need therapy, but some people could use a shot in the arm or kick in the butt or five or four or five speaking about a shot in the arm like what if I've got an addiction problem? Can you see me? Yeah, absolutely. That's what the whole EAP. I don't have to clean up first. You don't have to start. No, you don't. What we would do is get you in with a drug and alcohol specialist. Absolutely. Assess you figure out what you need, get you into the right treatment program and do a warm handoff because we know we work with all the treatment programs across the island. The people who do education, intensive outpatient, inpatient, you name it. You refer to those people. We do. We do. And we also deal with people who test positive for drugs and alcohol, their companies, they come to us because they're afraid they're going to lose their job. And we get them cleaned up, track them through their treatment process and let the companies know what it is. Wait, you said get them cleaned up. What do you mean? Well, that's different for everybody. Some people just need a class on education, an educational class on drugs and alcohol. Some people need counseling. Some people need inpatient treatment, outpatient. But you don't do that part. We don't do that. We refer to the experts and let them do the job. We monitor their progress and make sure they're compliant with our recommendations. How do you do that? We are on the phone every week with the treatment providers. So if they test dirty, then you find out. That's right. That's right. And then do you tell the employer? Eventually, we tell the employers whether they've been compliant with their recommendations. And whether they're ready to go back to work. But those people, I assume have come to you because they've been told they have to come to you. That's right. That's right. There's a release. Yeah, there's a release that we can talk to the employer because the employer wants to make sure they clean up. Right, right, right. If they're driving the bus. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, we don't want people who are drunk or high driving our buses or flying our airplanes or any of that. So in every occupation is different there. Yeah. So a little voice in my ear just told me that we need to go to a break and then we'll come back and we'll have some more fun. So don't go away. We'll be right back with my guest Dave Mitchell from Employee Assistance of the Pacific. See you real soon. Aloha. My name is Reg Baker, and I'm the host of Business in Hawaii with Reg Baker. We're a show that broadcasts live every Thursday from two to two thirty. We highlight success stories in Hawaii of both businesses and individuals. We learn their secrets to success, which is always valuable. I hope to see you on our next show. Aloha. Aloha. We invite you to join us on our Keys to Success show, which is live on the Think Tech live streaming network series weekly on Thursdays at eleven a.m. My name is Danilia, D-A-N-E-L-I-A. And I'm the other half of the duo, John Newman. Our goal for Keys to Success is to provide a platform for professional and personal development tools and profound insights on how to achieve success in life, career, and all business. We have incredible guests from all walks of life, including politicians, successful business owners, leaders, entrepreneurs, and authors. As this is a live show, there are live mess ups as well, which are fun to watch. Aloha, and we'll see you on Thursday. Welcome back to Shrink Rap Hawaii with Dave Mitchell still of Employee Assistance of the Pacific. So Dave, you were telling me during the break that half of what you do is with the employees and half of what you do is with the management of companies here. That's right. So what do you do with the management? We are their on-call experts on behavioral health. Anytime they have a question, something that's going on with their employees, they can call us and say, okay, I've got the situation, you know, I've got an employee that showed up with bruises who I think is getting beat up. What should I do? Or I've got an employee that is using drugs or alcohol. What should I do? Or I've got somebody, you know, we had one, I've got somebody wearing a cape thinking they have superpowers. What should I do? You know, any kind of issue about the human part of doing business, they call us up and we hopefully guide them through the best approaches. Do you also, I mean, is it also more mundane things like, you know, I got this guy who's constantly coming late or a whole bunch of people or the, the, what do you call it? A spree decor. The feeling, it doesn't seem like what it should be. People aren't on board with this new system that we have in place. What do we do? We do all of that. We do workshops and trainings for companies on change management and, you know, sexual harassment at the workplace and drugs and alcohol and time management and mindfulness. You name it, we can probably do a training on that. Do you teach meditation? We can do that and we have done that. Yeah. Yeah, that's uh, I'm a big fan of mindfulness meditation. Nice. Right and companies are starting to figure out that that actually serves them and helps their bottom line to address that. Which is exciting in our field. That'd be cool if they could devote like 10 minutes a day to having everybody meditate. Well, we've taken that to another level. We've, we're, our, our theme this next year is going to be on well-being which incorporates the physical, the social, social, um, well, your traditional wellness, um, but is also getting into things like mindfulness and we're doing 52 weeks of well-being, giving people, um, art therapy tips and poetry tips and, you know, yeah, it's just another way of reaching out to people and people are loving it. We're doing colored pencils and coloring books at our, as our giveaways this year and the businesses are really responding to that because they know it helps people get, get a mental break once in a while from their challenging jobs. Art, music, all of the arts are incredibly important, right? That's right. And uh, yeah, it'd be nice if more of us were aware of that. Yeah, it's really starting to change. Even the, some of the larger organizations we, we work with, we partnered with them and they get excited about coloring pencils, um, for their staff. Um, and one, you know, 10 years ago they would have, I would have thought, they would have thought that would have taken, have taken away from productivity, um, or that the people would be wasting their time coloring. Now I think in all businesses across Hawaii and internationally, people are doing more with less and everybody's feeling the pinch and any way we can help give people a little break from that, um, to center, to relax, to be mindful for a moment, um, we're happy to do that. Do you also incorporate, um, exercise into this well-being? That's, that's one of the focuses. We don't do a lot with that. Uh-huh. Most companies have their own. Oh, they have a jam or something. Yeah, these companies are already trying to be on top of that issue, so that's something that EAPs have tended to stay away from. Uh-huh. So what do you, so you, you will go in and let's say there's a, there seems to be a problem generally in the company where, uh, I don't, I don't know what, you tell me what are the problems you run into? It's truly something different every day. Uh-huh. You know, this week we've had a company call and say I want a time management training because all of our staff are feeling so pressured because of the new database system that we're rolling out, um, um, and that can be a time management training or a change management training. So you'll come in and give a, a class with a whole bunch of people? Yeah, yeah. Sometimes we just go in and teach people about how to use the EAP benefit. How to call us for their issues, how to remind their other, their co-workers that they have the issue. Do you ever get, you must get complaints from employees, maybe some, more than one employee sometimes that say, hey, my boss is the problem. Obviously. Obviously. And sometimes they're probably right. Sometimes. There are bullies out there. There are bullies. What do you do then? You ever say, hey, I met with Joe and I met with Mary and I met with Sue and they all say you're the problem. We can't do that. We can't violate anybody's confidentiality. Oh, okay. But if they come in and saying so-and-so is a problem, we can coach them on how to deal with problem people. Whether that's their employee or their employer, we can help both ways. You help the client deal with whoever they have to deal with. Yeah. My wife's an expert on bullying. She's written books on the topic. Does she bully you? Not anymore. Not anymore. We're an equal match there. But it happens at every job site, in every work situation, in every industry, there are bullies. It's not just kids in school. No. No. No. Yeah, that's a big one. It is. It is. It's very painful for people. Yeah. In fact, our whole last newsletter was devoted to the topic of bullying because it's so topical right now with what's going on in the world and it's happening in schools. It's happening in businesses. Uh-huh. Yeah. And yeah, it can drive people to extreme measures. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let's take a case like we were talking before. I'm an employee. I call you up on the phone and you match me with a great therapist that can help me with my particular kind of problem. That's right. And so if I can ask you to be the therapist? I'll do the best I can. My counselors are better at that than I am. Oh, okay. But I will do my best there. So Dave, should I call you Dave? Okay. Dave, I haven't been doing that well at my job lately because it's my wife, right? I can't seem to do anything right in her eyes, right? She asked me to fix this and I don't do it right or even if I do it right, it's like, well, that really wasn't the problem. It was this and she doesn't like the way that I handle our kids and she, you know, she tells them I don't discipline them consistently and besides that, you know, I have long hours at my job and we're just not getting along. We're getting into big arguments and it's, I don't know what to do and it's making, I'm very unhappy about it. Yeah. Well, first of all, I'm glad you came in. That's something we deal with every day. You're not alone there. There are a lot of people with relationship problems and sometimes there's easy fixes for that and sometimes the fixes take longer. We've got six sessions or however many we've got to look at this to see what we can figure out. I'm willing to help you anywhere I can. Let's take a look a little farther and then I'd start getting into where it started, how long it's been going on. It was great before the kids. It was great. It seems like ever since we had Johnny, there's just isn't enough time. Yeah. You know, I mean, we haven't gone on a date in three years. Yeah, yeah. And as a therapist, I know how normal that is and having been a parent myself and a grandparent now, I know that that's just reality as well. So part of what we try to do is depressing. I think I'm depressed. Okay, okay. What makes you think you're depressed? Tell me why you think you're depressed? I watch a movie. I start to cry. Yeah. I really don't want to do anything anymore. I don't even like going to the kids' games anymore. You know, it's like, life sucks. Yeah. You know, my job is, it's okay. But you know, it's not really what I wanted to do in life. Yeah. Then we'd start as a therapist and you know, as a therapist, you're doing two things at once. You're listening and empathizing while you're also at the same time trying to figure out what's going on. Is this depression with a small D? Is this depression with a capital D? Is this something that, you know... Oh, no, no. I still go to work. So, you know, I don't think it's the big D kind, right? That's a good thing. I'm not thinking about killing myself today. Good, good, good. Okay. So I don't think it's like I need pills. Yeah, good. Okay. Okay. What was the last straw that made you call in? Because that's a brave thing, especially for a male to do, a man to do, is call the EAP and say, I need some help. What was the last straw for you? Well, there's somebody else I was looking at. Yeah, yeah, okay. And I'm thinking, maybe I don't have to put up with this stuff anymore. That's your exit. You saw a possible exit. Yeah, you know, I'm not that old still. Yeah, yeah. Life doesn't have to be miserable like this all the time. So how far did you go down that path of maybe I could dot, dot, dot? How far did you go in your mind? In my mind, I went all the way. Okay. You're married, living happily ever after, or you're married, and then going to another therapist down the road about how miserable your life is with this woman. Oh, no, no, I didn't go that far. Okay. Oh, no, because the problem's not me. Right, right, right, right, right. I just changed, my wife changed my life, right? Obviously, obviously. Yeah, no, actually I didn't get past the kissing part. Okay. So you did kiss her? No, you said in my mind. Okay, okay. No, I didn't do that yet. Yeah. That's why I'm here because I think that might be a problem. Yeah, that would be a problem if you decided to go down that path. It may, it may be a problem if you go down that path. That would be a big change, and a lot of people's lives would be impacted by that decision. Yeah, I don't want to do that to my kids. Yeah, good. Okay, then let's talk about what you can do to take care of you. Because I don't know if you need to learn some tools or if you and your wife need some help with your marriage. You think, could she come in? Sure, sure. But she doesn't work for the company, could she still come in? You bet, you bet. I don't know if I can get her to come in though. Because she thinks the problem is me. Yeah, yeah. Well, and it may be. And that may be 50% of the problem, that may be 100% of the problem. It's never 100% of the problem, but you may be 75% of the problem. You may be 25% of the problem. I don't know. It doesn't matter. You can only address your part of this. And if she wants to come in and address her part of this, great. You've got a better shot. Both of you are fixing your stuff. So, we only get six times. That's right. And if you need more than six, I will refer you to somebody that will work with you, but I know as an expert on the topic that works with your insurance company, it could be me, it could be somebody else, but I'll give you a couple choices. If you need ongoing help, I'll get you there, so you don't have to start all over again and pick somebody from the yellow pages. You know, there's another problem that I didn't mention yet, but I think she drinks too much. Yeah, okay. You know, and I'm not sure, I don't know how much is too much. And can you help her with that, too? I can help you with that, and maybe we can help her with that. That's going to take her. Right. But you, absolutely. We can talk about what your options are. We can talk about Alenon. We can talk about other support systems for you. You know, figure out how you can deal with her drinking in a different way. That would be great, because I don't want to be screaming about that with her. Good, good for you. Well, Dave, thank you very much. Can we make an appointment for next week? Absolutely. Our time is just about running out now and dropping my role play here. Thanks for coming in. My pleasure, my pleasure. It's been great. Absolutely. Soon running out of time. Is there anything that we missed that the public should know? Just that most businesses have an EAP contract, especially the larger they are, the more likely it is they have an EAP contract. You said the whole city of Honolulu has a contract with EAP. Yes. Most large employers have, you know, hotel workers, you name it, most large employers and many small employers have some kind of an EAP contract. And if they don't, they can call me and we'll take care of that. That's wonderful. You want to squeeze in the phone number? Sure. 597-8222. 597-8222. Call Dave Mitchell and Employee Assistance of the Pacific. Thanks again for coming. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you.