 All right, fantastic. So we wanted to start over with an icebreaker question for all our panelists, which is the same as the last year. So since we have this opportunity to peek inside your, either your working environment, maybe your home environment, or maybe both, we don't know. We wanted to see if there is anything interesting surrounding you that you can share. And you have a green screen. That's already something. What do you do with those green screens? I'm actually like, yeah, at the client this week. And, yeah, so I'm just in this, in this tiny box here right now, right in this phone booth. Okay, so it's like you're slowly cooking inside there. Is it like a decent temperature? Yeah, I mean, I just got here a minute ago. So yeah, it's still fine, but we'll see. All right. The outside is terrible. So yeah. And if you have anything else, which is not the green screen, but I think in this small little booth, there's nothing really you can share. Let me check with David. If David, we can, we can have him for the panel. David, are you there? I think David is restarting. I don't think I haven't seen him come back in yet. Okay. So in that case, we'll, he's just come back in. He's just popped back in, but he's still on mute. Oh, there you go. Should hear me. Yeah. Yes. Oh, a classic restart solves most issues. Wow. Okay. Yeah, fantastic, David. Welcome to the panel. John, take it away. Yeah, so a question for David. Same one we have Martin. What kind of things are in your surroundings that are interesting you'd like to share or quirky or anything you come sharing with? Well, I was thinking about it and came up with that. I started practicing to drive, get a driver's license. The same, the same, actually the same month as I started to learn closure, which was not, not yet, but almost two years ago. So, and I'm 47. So my message is it's not too late to learn things both like practical and theoretical things. Which do you think is easier learning to drive or learning closure? Learning closure was actually actually easier, even though at the beginning it was really difficult, but you know, switching gears and keeping track of all people in the streets is so much more difficult. It's a very complex system. Yeah. Thank you. Okay, so going back to Martin. Do clerk and next journal share a common experience in that code from clerk can be used in next journal, or are they meant to solve different challenges? So yeah, to us kind of clerk is kind of a restart to try some of the same ideas we had the next journal kind of in a simpler form. So as it stands, they don't share code, but we're planning to reintegrate. Yeah, a lot of the clerk viewers and kind of use that them as a new foundation for next journal features. And I guess also down the road kind of integrate, yeah, make it easier to share notebooks on clerk notebooks on next journal and integration, better integration is something that we'll work on in the future. And this is like a side question. I know that you collected the notebooks from the talk and many others in a project that you wanted to share. Is this a good time to do that? Sure. So yeah, that's something. Yeah, this contains all the notebooks from my talk. And yeah, there's a GitHub read also folks can play with this. Clone it and yeah, start playing with clerk. Fantastic. Thank you. First question for David. So we're curious about what kind of impact on your workflow that storyboard storybook has had. We know that David Nolan said like dev cards and storyboard were a very important change to your development for react so just wonder what your thoughts were on that. In fact, for me it's been, I think, the mostly a quicker, faster feedback loop, some somewhat similar similar to to the to the repel experience, and also to like from from early on start thinking about the viewports or different devices. So, so I can quickly see how a component behaves in a mobile device or on desktop, just by using using the storybook UI. So for me that has been really good. Excellent. Thank you very much. We do have somebody with a hand up do you want to have a question next Renzo. Yeah, yeah, we, we, we maybe ask Andrew to go move to himself and ask the question. Hi, thanks Renzo. This is a question for David. David, I mostly do closure, not closure scripts. Occasionally I do closure script. The setup to storyboards. Obviously the results were wonderful but the setup for someone from my background looks a little tricky. I wondered if there were any automated tools or documentation, or any way you'd recommend of getting into that. Well, I haven't seen any automation yet for for closure script. But by myself, that's why I made an example repository that is on my guitar. To help to help like closure script developers but eventually you will probably end up in some JavaScript issues. At least if you use different JavaScript libraries that relies on like build systems and things like that. So with the from closure script to JavaScript, there, there isn't that much issues that I have noticed. But when I like added, I think it was, sorry, material UI. Or what was it? No, sorry, it was AWS Amplify that also relied on Webpack but a different version than storybook use. So that's when I ran into some issues and solved them by modifying the storybook configuration. But that's something, I guess, that is, that need to be, that requires some Googling and stack overflowing, I guess. Thank you, Andrew for your question and thank you, David, for answering. Another one for Marty now from Discord. We have Sam asking if you can apply a custom viewer just locally to some particular data rather than applying them globally. Yes, that's, that's possible like we have kind of two functions for this kind of with viewer and with viewers function that yeah just applies to the following form. And the difference being like one is for just viewer for a particular result. And kind of also like the clerk table stuff and clerk mega light that also just applies to the to the single form right. And with with viewers, you could also like for a tree structure kind of modify the viewers further down the tree, not just the top level. So yeah, the answer is yes. Thanks, Martin. Nice. Question for David, this is very specific question. So in storyboard, can we actually get the closure script source code to appear when clicking on source. I think is that for the on click thing that you showed us something else. Could it be the show. There's a button called show source. Yes documentation. Yeah. I haven't managed yet managed but to do that but I think it should be possible I guess grabbing some docs or metadata from closures itself. And string fights and put it in that custom. Sorry default export. I guess it should work, but I haven't really tried that one out yet. Okay, something for the weekend experiment with. Thank you very much. Definitely. And he's another one for Martin from discord for night. Can you hide the utility functions in clerk. Yes, this is a feature that's currently possible in the latest main, not yet on close jars will. Yeah, we'll come there next week and yeah you have the ability to like for each code cell to completely hide it to fold it so viewers can still expand it and do this on a kind of per document for the whole if you set it on the namespace form or per form per individual form, as well as hiding the result if you choose to perfect. Nice. So another question for David. This on discord sort of finish asking how do you approach using global state stores with storybook. Is that something you've used yourself. Fortunately, not a global state would that be state in the browser like in the window object or something. Yeah, that's a good question. So I mean when I thought global state. Yeah, then I obviously thought of items and things like that in the closure but yeah there's also like the the browser state the cash. Maybe the personal expand on that in the comments, and you can kind of catch up on that later on in the channel. Something that I have actually can think of that I have actually done but I think it should be possible. It's just JavaScript and browser so you can do anything with it. Excellent. Thank you very much. Next, a double question for Martin from Alex on discord. The first one are there plans to enable code editing within the notebook and not just in enix. And the second, how does click compared to other closure notebooks possibilities. Yes code notebook or the API with the closure Jupiter library. Yeah, first the code editing within the notebook yeah clerk, clerk's kind of main idea is to, yeah, to keep using your editor right we we consider that to be a big perk and I mean we've spent quite a bit of time, also making a good closure editing experience within the browser with next journal closure mode and that's what you what you have on our platform next journal dot com. Yeah, currently no plans to kind of bring bring in browser editing to clerk. There are some ideas definitely about around bringing direct manipulation for some things to clerk. Like, yeah, some things are just faster with direct manipulation. We have sliders to control values, and then kind of write them back to the closure source code. But that's kind of more the direction we're exploring and yeah, if you want to edit the stuff from the browser then yeah next journal is the place I'd point you at. The second question was how clerk compares to other closure notebook possibilities. There are a couple of examples here. But in general, so yeah, I must say, I haven't used these code notebook stuff. So can't really tell as to close up there. Yeah, so clerk is trying to be a kind of more minimal integration right just as a as a closure library so that comes with the pros and cons that that follow from this so yeah it's, it's not a polyglot system right like like Jupiter. And yeah, I think we'll definitely stay this way. Yeah, but we were also like working on other stuff that's that's more polyglot. Thank you. And more questions for David has time to come through a bit faster now so one of the questions is how does storybook compared to other solutions in that space. Obviously there's quite a few options like dev cards, but there's also other libraries. I'm curious if it's if it's kind of it seems to be more just react focused. I'm not sure if almond rum kind of, I'm not sure if like things and rum like rum and that libraries like that really kind of in. And also like, is it useful for developing components like we around CSS frameworks like boomer or bootstrap. Yeah, so the first question how does the city compared to other tools I have dev cards and I have only like read about and saw presentation and there's another to go I think it's called workspace for for closure, closure script. Yeah, I think it's very similar and probably as a feature as many features as storybook. What caught my attention is that I have like a background from JavaScript and was interested in if it could be if it would be possible and realistic to use to like closure script so so that's my motivation to dig a little bit deeper in storybook and it's also like very actively developed and has a lot of third party add-ons and things like that, which I think is very useful. And the second question likes experiment wing with CSS frameworks. Yeah. Yeah, I haven't that that much experience other than developing component components using CSS. For storybook I have like been very isolated in material UI itself and that is very code centric so you can you do most of the things in code. Can in closure script you do like maps to define the CSS and that will be recompiled each on each change. But there's also an option to add like global CSS to previews in storybook and I can I haven't really tried out what happens if you change that CSS if the storybook will pick that up I would be surprised if it if it doesn't but I cannot say I haven't tried that that scenario yet. Yeah, I'm quite keen to try try it with CSS I use Bulma quite a lot because it is just a pure CSS framework there's no JavaScript in there so it should be pretty easy to do and you just attach classes to your what you hate code should be quite nice. Yeah, I think one of the things that seems different between storybook and dev cards is, but you don't really need to install anything with dev cards so somebody mentioned it was quite challenging to get storybook up and running. So with dev cards it's just part it's just the website that's rendered from your closure code so closure script code. So in that sense it's it's far easier but it doesn't have a lot of the features that storybook has which like resizing stuff you have to kind of do that. More money yourself there's some browser tools I think to do that with dev cards use the actual browser dev tools that gives you that feature. But yeah I think that's probably the biggest kind of noticeable difference. But yeah, thank you very much. And we have another question for Martin discord. Do you plan to expose Vega itself, or is it going to stay VL for some time. I'm not sure about the meaning of VL maybe if you know. Vega light I think it's Vega versus Vega light and yeah we're actually using Vega and bet behind the scenes and that does support both. So, yeah, thinking about the naming change of the of our Vega light function to to make that more clear. Yeah. But it's possible today. Back to David so there is a question here asking. Why has amplify been used is it different to dev cards I'm pretty sure is the amplify I assume that's the AWS amplify whatever is that right. What's that bring us. It doesn't really much to do with the storybook it's another JavaScript ecosystem tool that I was eager to try out how well it works with the closure script and it's, it's, I think the phrase popular phrase is called no ops. And that is that you can have a like a browser and like a bunch of server back in the cloud stuff without managing your own, your own infrastructure it's a see like to weaken bootstrap. A lot of good things so it's not really related to to storybook but I decided to inject it in my example report just because So it's more part of the deployment side of things is that right. So do you getting the site up and running somewhere. Yeah, if you want like the persistent data storage or lambdas and you can you can define them quite easily using using the amplify CLI and it will and the tool will provide everything you need for it like extremely buckets and things like that too. Excellent stuff. Yes, I've used amplify briefly just to publish some static sites. It's, it's quite simply just pointed at something and off you go. Thank you very much. And other questions for Martin coming through so inviting people that still wanted to ask any questions to there's still time to do that. But in the meanwhile I can ask Martin if he has anything else that he wanted to add that maybe wasn't able to explain at the talk. Yeah, maybe it makes sense to speak a bit kind of to the future plans in clerk. And yes, there's like three things I think I'm, I'm looking forward to so clerk has this caching mechanism behind the scenes right. And this is how it makes it like keeps the feedback loop fast and doesn't have to rerun the whole document from top to bottom every time. And yeah, so exploring with kind of using that caching mechanism and distributing it within the team to make, yeah, like long running computations appear a lot faster without everybody having to rerun it. That's, that's one of the things we'd like to explore. Yeah, then we want to make sharing easier. Like with a small service, which, yeah, like you've seen you can do the static build stuff right and put it into a bucket yourself but kind of have a small community page where people can can share the clerk notebooks and yeah, make that really easy. And lastly, definitely exploring a lot of the stuff like the small talk community has been doing with this, yeah, kind of multiple development idea like making it really easy to to customize a view to your specific problem at hand, and yeah, kind of going further than this than kind of what I've shown in the talk. I think rule 30 the example kind of hints at this but yeah, I think this there's a lot more to explore in that direction. Nice multiple views. It is. Yeah. Any other question for David. Yes, we have one it's possibly a bit of an updated one. So just wondering what kind of project you built or what kind of project you'd like to build using story broken and closure script. Any ideas on that. Kind of project so well, the one that I've been working on mainly it's fortunately it's not anything open source but but it is. It is quite component heavy tool. And, and, and it's a browser based app that it should work both on mobile and desktop and things like that so I think for that is store book is very useful because I can zoom in to to like a button how it works and so zoom out a bit and start building components and start to think about features and how to combine them like like Lego basically and finally hopefully there's a full blown web app somewhere released. And is there a kind of like any obvious kind of challenges that you found that you're not even sure how to start solving or did you do did much do most of the things you wanted to do. There was. At first it was some issues with the different JavaScript like tooling, tooling support and like different versions of web mainly webpack that kind of cause some trouble for me. But then also, there were some features that were wasn't existing when I started with store book existed in shadow CLJS but thankfully Thomas Heller actually added some really really useful features for for for this scenario specific like that regex support storage and, and a lot of good stuff so I would recommend to to use the latest version of shadow CLJS if you if you use that see a setup. Then everything will work very smoothly from the closest script side. Excellent. Yes, that sounds all wonderful. Yes, I want to leave the conference and try that right now, but I have got duties to do. Thank you very much. I think we have another question for around for Martin, actually. Yeah, Paul is asking if, given that our keynote speaker today is Steven Wolfram. We feel justified in asking is there anything interesting in the Mathematica space that you find interesting possible inspiring for clerk. The ease of use and like that Mathematica has. Yeah, it's definitely an inspiration like I've used it as a as a physics student. A little bit. And yeah, I think it's, it's really exciting that like, yeah, we can take sick immutals that, yeah, can do some of the stuff that Mathematica can do. Definitely, like, yeah, since it's not a 20 year running effort or or Mathematica is even older. I think we're not quite there yet. But no, it's definitely like, yeah, looking forward to, yeah, explore this a bit more and think it's quite exciting what's possible with this library today already. Nice. I do have a cheeky little question for David. I'm just curious to know if if the Swedish version of puppy longstocking is the longest person's name you've heard in Swedish. It has to be. I haven't. I can't imagine anyone having a longer name. Perhaps, you know, do you remember the movie, the fifth element. Oh, yes. You know, Lilo, yes, she had, she had her real name was really, really long. She might have, she might have had a longer, longer name, but I'm not sure. Find that out. That's something to Google Swedish version of Lilo's full name. Excellent. Thank you. We might want to ask a similar question to Martin, but not in names, but the longest word in, word in Germany would be probably beating the longest word in Swedish. I'm not sure, but it's a cheeky question again. Yeah, pretty sure it does. But yeah, also can't, yeah, come, can't pick a specific one from the long list of German long words. I like the German name for kitchen. Because it's like, isn't like cooking pot place or something like that. As it translates. Normally say which yeah isn't that long so it's very, it's very descriptive of the, of the, the actual thing it's it's kind of conveying I think I think that's why I got from the actual name but yes. I did speak a little bit of Dutch many years ago and it was, yeah, there's a tendency to just join like lots of words together to just form one big, big word. That was quite interesting to learn. Yeah, we definitely have that as well. Okay, so we are approaching the, like the final, like the last minute of the final. So we are going to have, we're going to have a quick, not sorry, not a quick break. We're going to have a longer break, I think. Yes, we'll go 30 minute break next. Yes. Exactly. So it's just to, yeah, to decompress a little bit from the couple of talks and the awesome answers that we got from the panel. Thank you very much for like our speakers, both Martin and David to like put their effort and bring us some very interesting topics. And yeah, we'll, I guess we'll see you all in 30 minutes and enjoy some visual art.