 So we've already signed the board orders three of us have so we can skip that one Shall we approve the minutes? March 27th. You've all had a chance to look at them online Anybody have any changes? Would somebody like to move those? I'll make a motion to Accept the minutes. Oh wait a minute. I just realized nobody's taking notes. I'm sorry to take notes. I'll do the best I can Okay Go ahead Jordan. Oh, you did it Do you want to accept the 327 and 405 sure 405 is simple. Yeah, so I'll make a motion to accept the meeting minutes from March 27th and April 5th Do you mind? Who's seconded? Jamie seconded. Any more discussion? All in favor? Unanimous I want to make an announcement and then ask for additions to the agenda The announcement is the Planning Commission has informed me that they're planning to bring new zoning regulations to us They're going to hold a public hearing on May 2nd And then they're going to formally present them to us on May 8th at our regular meeting Hang on a public hearing on May 2nd and do this is that worth May 8th? Yes Thank you And the reason they want us to know this is they were hoping that we would all come to the public hearing on May 2nd And our ask our questions then so we didn't have to do the whole thing again on May 8th So if you would all make a note of that and Watch for the time and place, which I assume will be seven o'clock here. I don't know that for sure What day of the week is it? It's May 2nd. Tuesday. Thank you Okay And Just for your information once they formally presented to us The process is that we then have 15 to 120 days to hold our own public hearing We can make changes at any point either before the public hearing or after the public hearing And but but but after 120 days we have to vote to either adopt or reject Or we can put it up for town-wide bid. I'm sorry bid election So that would require, you know Australian ballot vote of the entire town and that vote has to be taken by Sirly September at some point because of other things that they've done So at some point we're gonna have to discuss whether we want to just adopt it or whether we want to put it to a Town-wide vote. So I'm just letting y'all know that's coming. Do you have an email that outlines all of that? No, but I can tell you about it. Okay, since I just said it. I'll come by tomorrow That's okay. It's gonna need to go to bro. So I thought if you I thought maybe you were reading from an email that Jan sent you Oh, no, would you like me to? To write send something to Rose. That would be great. Okay. I'm not caught I didn't necessarily catch every nuance And I also want to I hope you've all become aware of the finance seminar that's being offered by VLCT on May 3rd It's 9 30 to 12 in the morning. It's by a zoom. I believe it's a what it's a certain webinar. Yeah I've signed up for it and Sandra has signed up for it And if any of you would like to sign up for it what I did was I asked Barbara to do it because they don't have our formal emails yet So they won't won't let me in So just ask Barbara. Yeah, I would register, you know, as soon as you get your all-town emails Then we'll let them know you can get to their portal. Okay, and the the cost for that is $10 each. It's it's a deal Okay, I don't think I one other thing on the zoning stuff Do you know would you characterize this as big changes medium little? I would say there are a couple of big changes and they focused in on the shoreland zoning That's a major change and the River River hazard overlay district, I think And that's that's all pretty new And then there are a couple of other things a couple of other little things I think they'll come to the hearing or when they do the hearing they'll tell us Well, they have a document in plain English that the public can look at before the public hearing They should have both the document with all the new things out like, you know in red Plus they're supposed to do a summary. I whether it will be in plain English. I can't promise Probably who's the head of the planning? Jan Olson. Okay. I'm going to strongly request that they have a document in plain English So people can understand what the ramifications are. Yeah. Yeah, generally do that. Plus I actually worked with them a bunch on it. So I can talk to you about it if you want Also on I remember Reading an earlier draft of it. It's pretty it's The changes are all pretty pretty clear through the planning Commission's website. So there's there's really good information there and I believe I did read us a summary of Changes that were Kind of plain English, I think that was in preparation to presenting it to the previous select board But I would agree an update of that Okay, any changes or additions to the agenda acknowledgment so I guess There was a meeting earlier today to discuss the contract negotiations with the town council and Some clarification was offered That that meeting should have been a warmed meeting and so given the sensitivity of the time Timing of wanting to carry on those conversations and kind of move things forward in a timely fashion members of the Select board that were on that call agreed to proceed with the meeting and Generate minutes and we will Wanted to kind of acknowledge the mistake that we made there. It was a misinterpretation of the requirements The open meeting requirements for that so we're going to create minutes post them immediately and then They'll be available for adoption on the 17th or our next meeting And just just to be clear you would have gone into executive session. We did go into executive session So it was conducted as a special meeting As it should it was just a misinterpretation of how Preparatory meetings We were under the impression that negotiating Negotiation prep meetings specifically on that subject matter were exempt and that was a misinterpretation of that guidance. So We just want to make sure that's kept on the up and up. So did you get enough to say something? Thank you Anything else changes additions to the agenda? No, okay Um, I presume nobody's here to for the public comment and we can go right to the emergency services section I've gotten lots of feedback from community members How appreciative they are the work that you're doing and your how your agendas are laid out and So easy to understand and comprehend and your minutes There people are really really I mean people that you don't think of as necessarily going to the website to read the minutes Are commenting on your minutes and your agendas and you guys are just doing your question You're doing a big job. We'll always accept public Thank you All right, well, we're gonna hear in the next little while From East Montpilier fires department the Woodbury fire department the sheriff and from Nick Who is the callus emergency management director? Or whatever So I assume some of the others will be along are you from Woodbury? So your So either of you I Got my email and phone any questions comments concerns is glad to hear it. Thank you So welcome good to meet you all I'm Paul. Oh, yes Jamie Morgan Gabrielle and I'm Ann Winchester You're with Jordan Yeah, so tell us what you do and about this contract you want us to sign So when we start a little more time, let me get into that Okay, so we've been we provided fire protection services for callus. It's my understanding all the way back to the Essentially Geographically East Montpilier can cover about half the town we cover about half over time That's kind of morphed into we both respond together Due to the reality of our staffing, which is We will sign maybe A bunch of anybody So back three years ago I do go back that far there was kind of a nice and excellent one Because of staffing Just what's gone on nationwide is volunteer shortage, which you'll probably see what you're looking for people to do Count jobs you'll find that volunteer shortage So in order to have adequate staffing for emergency calls, which for house fires typically 15 So you're looking at Allocating things that's kind of what we try to do if I we get a real fire Do you want 15 people on the scene within 14 minutes? That's the national standard for a community like Woodbury and callus We do need that standard So so that kind of explains how it works Over time We've had various ways of moving and there's always been a contract like this ever since I've been Involved in it for 30 well probably the last 20 I've been mostly involved in it as far as the contract part of it as the chief And it's been handled different ways at one point. We talked with the board and negotiated The costs for service and they just put it into their select board budget And it went boarded with the town budget the last couple years. They've had it So we get an article on the on the town warning and then that way that's kind of Recently the newest thing we have in the contract Which we just started doing in October was a Woodbury has been providing for the first response service at Woodbury since 2018 We after many years of trying that our state EMS license for district six which covers Woodbury and callus So we added that we've been working there coming But we've been working closely with these small clear ambulance to What is excessive as this happens is two of our EMT's would arrive out of place Sometimes it's going to be before the end of it. Sometimes it'll be about the same time The idea is to provide additional staffing Which is needed a lot of time for lift assist and carrying people out or we as in some instances And we do a walk in Woodbury as we arrived far before the end of it to start providing EMT care to somebody who needs medical care and then basically we just transfer care to the ambulance service And we're working to get a lot of our members their EMTs on East Montpeliers ambulance So that if they need additional staffing, we're gonna be able to supplement that staffing. So that's what's going on It's been kind of a process. So It's been the time that's why it wasn't in the last contract. We started doing it It's in this year's contract that this the the monies is no additional monies this year and the whole budget was set for next year Already for the next year that the next fiscal year. So no additional costs for doing that So the difference between the one you just handed us on the one we had a week or two ago You'll see that in the first paragraph It says emergency medical first first response services, so that's an addition to the one So what you're talking about the new addition is what you email to us over the weekend, correct? That's what he got because he and I hadn't talked before it went out I said oh wanted to because I've been to go talk to East Montpelier about how to make that service work the best the big hangout was getting We were licensed to Harvard Rescue, which is for if you want to get into how complicated this is District 4 didn't want another licensed EMS agency Although the state of Vermont said we had to get our own EMS license So it's kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place, you know, then COVID happened I mean after filling out a 30 page application back in 2020 They informed me why I resmitted it last April that I had to fill out a new 30 page application And then I said well, where do we go? I said well district 4 here it isn't right They don't want another so so you said in the director's so this was a fight to run then district 6 gladly took us Which is this Washington County? So here we are So it was quite frustrated for a long period of time as I said it took from 18 until Just last we get the license in October a little persistence. Oh, yeah So that's kind of where that came from we saw the need in Woodbury and as I said as you come north into Calis The animals have kind of beat us but as they come further away We beat them there and then we've had instances where a mutual aid ambulance has to come from Berry or Berry town or Montpelier We can use to beat them get there and provide some care That's kind of the idea. I'd be glad to answer any questions and even if you think of something that you don't Think of right now always welcome to call Questions Are there always? EMTs that go out on a call like if it's a fire call So our people we have one purposes. We have two people that are EMT only not firefighters so they May go on a fire call the rest of us James and I and there's seven of us total that are our licensed EMTs that will Be going to be on fire calls because that's kind of what was happening. We arrived at a call at room 14 in East Calis and Patients are injured. There's no ambulance on scene yet. What do we do? So the logical answer was get some people so by it. Yes, most of the time There were also medical services there on a normal phone We just had that incident this summer that fellow was burned in East Calis And I had to turn my son over to dealing with the burn victim while I tried to put out Because that's what happens sometimes So this cut this you said this contract is the same dollar amount as last year's No, no, it was what was considered by the voters this past March. I guess they approve that So what the verbiage in the contract is the same So the amount it was the allocated amount was what they approved at town meeting Yeah, yeah divided by quarter and then we we broke in the So what's what's was on we have a truck? We have two truck payments that are due in July August so that truck fund payment that was approved It's widespread in that way. We need that check July 1st the capital fund Which is the it's the new account which when this other one goes away. We have one more cycle We have to get approved that account goes away All of it goes to the capital fund That's paid in January because the issue I guess was your taxes taxes come in October So that was where those why that seems Spelled out the way it is. There's three amounts. Are they all in the budget? 38,724 17,850 and 31,000 Other questions We talk again in December if you want to continue to go to have the voters look at if you want to negotiate like we had in the past So that's really we can have that you guys is that normally what they do. Oh, that's what budget time Yeah, but we used to really come in in November December with our budget We would talk about these numbers it would just go into the the select board's budget We may prove the town budget and then we need to go You know from my old select board chair positions a little stronger position for you because what happens and why that art Is if the voters approve something it really takes it out of your hands You really have no choice but to write the check so that's something you want to consider Rows on the chair same deal, you know how much you want to get involved in the negotiations How much say do we want to have you know if you kind of kind of give it away that way But sometimes it's easier I guess the concern was one of the voters to decide what level of fire protection and that's reasonable But I think between the two is a solidly supported us in the last couple of years So I think you're on safe ground Well, in that case you guys figure out which one is let us know well tonight what you would probably oh, it's me I have to sign this. Do you want to do that tonight? Yeah, you're all set to do it be great Usually show up in May or June, but this gets it out of the way. Okay. I know you guys have a lot of stuff Would you guys like to go ahead and make a motion? I think the motion would be to sign me I mean it's authorized me to sign the contract between us and the Woodbury fire department So moved Second any further discussion on this No, all in favor, I okay So Well, thanks And I'm pleased to meet you on is that if there's any issues, you know, not all the comments you're gonna get are polite Once in a while, you might get a complaint that involves the fire department and just call So when you drove too fast somebody splashed a lot of my mailbox Sometimes they hate their neighbors and I did yell that because I parked something in their driveway Just you'll get to see this. So just don't sweat it call us up We'll we'll address the issue. I'd rather have any issues that are coming up be addressed super later So they said don't hesitate email whatever the complaint is it will address it Are all your volunteers? Do they all live within a Woodbury? So we have you there are we have four Three of us in four of us in Calis one in North Montpelier the rest are over there So we have a pretty good good Which these guys can shoot anywhere You guys sign those and give one coffee to There's two copies you guys can walk away with one to be one So We do you next are you planning to stay sure maybe walk Paul And he's long years here now to and Albert Hi, there's one item that I'd like to include them in that conversation. Oh, okay So if that's all right, Albert will go we'll go with Nick next and then you'll be next up so Nick Calis Been in touch with Harry shopman who is the regional coordinator for For our region Okay And I will I'm a barber. I'm gonna send you a paragraph Some of you may know In any case one of his jobs is to go around the state and meet with select boards and other town officials who are interested Fire Department so on about what Vermont emergency management does and how they interact with the town during an emergency event In particular with regard to the select board to talk about what are the roles and responsibilities of the select board Expectations during an emergency event and so some of it Emergency management one-on-one From the perspective of the state and female and so he's would like to meet with you and with others Be great if Paul Albert those could be there You said an email outright. Did I think there's one? Okay? I can forward the information to anyone who wants to know more but I Know that you are your schedules loaded with I've already heard two more meetings got added to your schedule During this meeting so but if you let's see, but how should I frame this? He is available to come just about any evening at six in the month of May or the month of June so what I'll do is maybe a send you an email asking if you're interested in participating and To see if you can work out a date which would be feasible So that's it for that. Have you met? Do you know Harry shaman? No, I think he's relatively new Okay, I think you said he was all respond if you didn't reset it That's that's all for that item. I can go on or I can okay turn it back to Albert if you want Whatever whatever you like you guys are all done by the way, right? Yeah, we're just listening We've never seen you know we've always had not together, so we're trying to really show that we do work together I Count Cal supply for a grant for Generators and various things, but we and we were approved for $3,200 I think it is to upgrade our radio communication system, which I guess is I'll say vintage it's old and sometimes the trucks can communicate With each other and with the office and sometimes they can't and so When our Calis emergency management group were discussing as I said, we really ought to be talking having this conversation about radios with the fire departments and school and with the road crew To see if there is a way we could coordinate and collaborate on And to find out what everyone has because obviously one each point of communication to be able to participate so I may send it another email I'm actually the chair of the capital for our mutual aid communications committee for Great, I'm your resource for now till I ditch that job someday Do we do really good job? And is there a conversation going on Yeah, I can cover okay to do it's pretty simple Basically, the just was that that frequency that we use is for fire emergency only used between police fire and The fire And then if you need a form of communication Work with the road That's where it's going to be the road highway which we have will just I can help you with how to make that system more robust We have that in there now. I can talk to the road crew. That's our best way But exactly how to make it better All right, I don't think we have Calis for we do on our Okay, that would be an ad that we would have to do And then put your center and operation we know you're working off that frequency and that's how we communicate Yeah, you can spread out Oh So let's introduce ourselves again Jamie Morby Gabrielle And Winchester and to Lynn Jordan keys Yeah, my name is Albert Trello. I inherited this job in December because present chief resigned roughly Whatever the issues where he didn't share Anybody really but he resigned roughly and we respect him for that and then I inherited it because I was second in command And so now come May we have another election. I think my chances are pretty good to get it again But you never know You never know I So I'm not sure exactly what you wanted from me other than introduction and to tell you briefly with the fire department our history is Back probably Give or take on the anal and service kind of win-all line We created an era local agreement between Calis East Montoya and the fire department So it's like a three-member agreement and that's what governs how we do not bring things And then if there's questions or things you want to see changed you bring it forward and there's The details of that I don't have in my head, but there's it's a 90 days before our interlocal student Riyadh You can bring your question to the group and then open discussions to a manual change things that bring the interlocal agreement and then we rewrite it and then all parties agree and The last time it had been gone. It went through probably As long as it's been created without a change and then two years ago, I think Calis Wanted to change because they wanted our budget to come out of the town budget Because originally we were in the town budget as part of the same issue Yeah, so I need to be capable got pulled out and got brought into a separate article in your budget for the fire department to get their funding and First we were really concerned How's that gonna work? So far it seems to work. I've worked. Okay. We haven't had a real issue or red flag that came so So, you know, I don't have a concern there at this point and then some other Verbiage about the time you have to wait the challenge Interlocal and some other things that got all got dropped down to a shorter period of time And you know, we haven't had an issue. That's what governs our relationship For as one third of Calis Bay's It's all Would you like us to ask you questions Um, I guess I'm curious so For the towns that are they're hiring out the services I I would assume that he's my place rolled up into East Montpellier's town budget, right? So, yeah We're essentially both private fire departments within our community. So you're the same the 501c for nonprofit Private fire departments. Yeah So who owns the firehouse? Calis and And we contract with you and part of the contract is you get to use our firehouses Which firehouse the one in honor to Yeah Truthfully, I'm not sure if there's But the main that's not came was split, you know between both towns Calis So could you tell me explain to me, but could you explain for everybody What you need from us in terms of participation? Toby explained to me about the meetings, but I don't think these folks have heard it. Oh, yeah, we meet three times a year One year is kind of one meeting is for the new budget year when we present our budget You folks get to see what we're thinking about to ask us questions And then next meeting is Kind of like where we are Throughout the year and then usually it's more like a year-end review How the past year and who's at the meeting generally the callous luck word East Montpere select word And then we have a board that are all invited generally not all of them show up Usually chief president and one of the board members will be there Callous traditionally showed up By that you mean a quorum Does it matter to you They're required Other questions, so your meeting is April is it this month? Yes But is that one of the try annual meetings Yeah, Toby told me and I Want to say April 16. I was thinking No, it's got to be a Yeah Oh, you mean you'll have the meeting whether I would think And then in December I understand you do the budget so there you need a song Or at least Yeah, so you get that on the December meeting we we need to have a quorum because that's when we do the budget you Establish your budget and together the three boards all have to approve the budget well Sometimes challenges to our pleasure Concerns about something If you look at the interlocal I think it actually has language that says you're supposed to present as We presented and had a few of issues that we dress it Collectively, but I know one time there was something to happen. I think these don't go there for a change And they're again now do you bite the hand that feeds you? That's a tough one. You know, so what do we do? Supposed to be a collaborative thing that we all agree on the budget and then it just gets voted doesn't have to happen at our Joint meeting, but then you go back at your next select board meeting site. We approve these molecular budget So you'll present us a budget and then we'll hammer it out We might make some changes at the December meeting. That's what it should happen And sometimes I might not feel comfortable and I've seen it leave But then you should involve us in that change when it happens or whatever that change is Versus you privately as a select board a lot having a motion to chop $50,000 off of Fire departments request But you know Yeah, you know, and then all of a sudden look great. How do we come up with 50 grand? And then your answer might be well You can take it out of your reserve fund or your capital fund and use that So it sounds to me like we should see a copy of this interlocal agreement Okay, tomorrow isn't necessary, but he wouldn't mind when you get it just put it on your list Thank you. I assume everybody would like to see it when Tegan finds it What was the other meetings? It was April December, and there's one in the middle of june or something Yeah I'm yeah, we're all just trying to figure it all out There's there's real there's no Interior motive other than just trying to figure it out. It's ironic that I was just talking to juice about sending out an email I got planning these used to be quarterly meetings But now we're just three a year and then Toby sent out the email Since you're new Thank you. Okay. Other questions It's like in the evening So we have at least two maybe maybe more we'll see when we get closer If how many Yeah All right, thank you, and I think the sheriffs have just arrived We had applied for our funds That's why I'm asking Mike we're gonna hear a little bit more about that tonight, but I think not Okay, I might be a teeny little bit. That's probably just wanted to ask is someone else to do why aren't you doing that? What was it before well, I Wasn't charged that on our board. I got very frustrated because it was designed originally To cover a lot of our costs that we incurred during COVID during the responses of COVID that we had budget shortfalls We had fundraising shortfalls, which is what we've applied for for woodbury, but When they opened it up so any you could buy anything with it It kind of pushed us into the background. So we've received nothing. So Emergency services as a whole field in a lot of communities were very slighted by because we were the ones having to do all the Responding the out-of-treaty COVID patients going to stuff train trying to grab a run the fire but we lost money We lost money in our budget We had money that was given two years ago intended to cover those shortfalls You know, and I had the same problem the food shelf the library a bunch other and then because of them opening up what it could be used for Every all that stuff got pushed in the background. That's kind of what happened. So we've received nothing I think we'll get something but that was that was my problem with it at the time was and still is because you know our urgency was 2020 here we are three years later. We think we read the check We've already lost all the money and we're still sitting on the bill You know and the money that was designing it to us never got to us Did you burn through your reserves like how did you make up for the shortfall? Well, it ended up just certain things you didn't buy, you know You're but because we kept those budget, you know for our budget went up a lot We just tried to keep it really small We always did an annual fundraising letter that was led to all 15,000 three years We would buy like we need new ice-rest things like that we would do that so we didn't have the charge of ownership that stuff We just haven't done that And again, we'd hope to recover that not your issue, but it's just what happened It's just what happened the way this kind of played out It kind of lost the purpose of it as time went by which is what happens a lot of time And we're not as prepared as we could be Because of it for the next one Did we buy resources do we buy more we had some of that stuff? But money to buy because this year we budgeted oil and he bald at the same issues fuel and oil through oil for your trucks And that's about four or five thousand in one year We didn't budget for last year because nobody saw that hit comment That's a real safe deal is pretty clear this year for us Which is why our budget went up what you all saw because it was mostly Those type of things so that's it. You know, so we saw yeah, just we had areas We could have grown but weren't able to do that Because it's not that sure Thank you So what if you guys bring some chairs up? Gonna stay for this to where it was a good place So good evening everyone, sorry, we're a little bit late Anyways, I work on the Washington County Sheriff here with me is Brett Meyer He's the captain of the department second command is in charge of the patrol division of the department So on the day-to-day stuff if you decide to continue the contract with us when you have issues He's your direct point of contact. So that's why he's here in the seat He can speak to the issues directly since it's it's his responsibility So where would you like to begin at this point? I'm not knowing exactly what information you're looking for this evening We don't know anything You're asking us to sign a contract so I guess we'd like to know well, what do we get for it? And what do you do? Are you gentlemen aware that this is a brand new entirely brand-new select board all five members are new mostly yes Okay, I was background all of you had I don't want to make any assumptions I think you can assume Okay, so Let me start with a little bit of background on Sheriff's part. It's your remote. It's a it's a little bit strange We are essentially small businesses So the department did only things that we get from the county are the building To administrative staff people in the utilities all we get from the state is my salary and the salary of two Officers whose primary job is transportation of prisoners. Everything else we do is on a contract basis We are essentially law enforcement for hire. That's how we pay for cruisers uniforms radios equipment everything So anytime we contract with you we're out doing traffic control We're out in security. We're out doing motor vehicle patrol for towns all of that The money's gained from that go into funding the operations of the department because there isn't any other way to do it And our final model from the state So with that said we contract with multiple towns at this point. We are at So he's just chatted with us last week last Monday that's where we were at the same time So we contract with 11 different municipalities For patrol contract services and we act as first responders Which means when an emergency type call comes in we will respond Get it under control figure out what the nature of the call is if it's something that's going to require further investigation We call that BSP because they have that unlimited budget that we do not we don't want to burn up the small contracts Most of these towns have But if it's something you know a crash it's something super simple We will just deal with it because it saves them the time and that's why we're here Our primary focus is motor vehicle type stuff because the small communities that tends to be the quality of life Issue that they're dealing with aside from the alarms and things of that nature So that is our primary focus what we've done traditionally. So we are set up to do that We used to have a number of part-time people that would do a lot of these patrol contracts The society has changed and law enforcement has changed. There's not very many people that want to do this job anymore So for the most part all of our work is done by full-time employees So our patrol contract the pricing has had to change dramatically starting this July 1st Before now, I'm gonna say was 31 75 off the top of my head and starting in July 1st It's going to $60 an hour plus mileage. So Wages have skyrocketed Montpelier PD for example right now day one with zero experience Officers brand-new are making $34 an hour. That's what they're in the academy So we couldn't even make payroll Say anything about provide services. So we've had to look at our business model We've had to update a fair amount of equipment on radar units We've gone to body cams as of about two weeks ago So the cost of business is going up and I'd like to give our employees some raises to keep the ones we have left And at 31 75 that was just impossible So and we were losing money on patrol contracts the previous sheriff looked at that as a service and we would offset the cost of the patrol contracts with money We made by doing traffic control We don't do as much of that anymore because we don't have employees to do that anymore because again with the same issues So we can't rock Peter to pay Paul To keep things going on that business model. So we've had to reevaluate the entire business type thing and come up with with a rate process that'll cover the cost of doing business Not easy and not what everyone wants to hear but to keep the department solve it into Indian product providing services It's kind of what we have to do. We are looking at increasing the services. We provide. I am an EMT We do have a part-time officer with us who's a paramedic We are going to require everyone as soon as we can get a class set up to go to a minimum EMR Which is emergency medical responder, which is there's many different levels in the medical field There's a low one. It's Vermont something or other beaver beaver. Thank you And then it's emergency medical responder emergency medical technician EMTA and paramedic So the department will pay everyone who wants to do it up to at least EMT But we're going to demand they do at least EMR So we're going to start providing a little bit of medical services because the fast watts the same way as law enforcement Nobody wants to do it anymore period So the more services we can get out there while we're out and about in the municipalities Things are changing make sense. Yeah, see if anybody's got any questions the contract and I used to have like What can we expect to pay for a year of your services at 60 bucks an hour for like? It doesn't say how many hours a week or whatever. So how does that usually work? So you want to take over it just so It's good. We've been doing it for you guys in the past. It generally depends on the week is either three six So that said Kind of figure that one that part out as far as dollar figures are concerned. What we do is we work the one is scheduling patrols Throughout the year generally nowhere in time or like now when you can't be on some of the back roads You don't want to see us There's no sense in us being out here for the times when the back roads or the roads are in pretty bad shape The other thing is is I work up with the complaints are one of you having a complaint I don't want to be here at 7 o'clock in the morning with the complaints are Those type of things. So I try to work around like the complaint level is that you have If we are getting complaints one of the things I do as well as ask For you guys to communicate with regional planning commission get the tapes out if we're getting a large amount of complaints They put the tapes on the different roadways That will give me the number of vehicles when they're speeding and how many are speeding and I can organize patrols around that That works incredibly. I can tell you the Resident who keeps complaining about speeding Sometimes it's the big truck that's going down the road or the loud truck doesn't have exhaust on it That they think is flying and sometimes it's not So we try to do that aspect of things It helps out a great deal regional planning commission puts those out for you charge for your people so you can in fact Get the accurate information to know when when we are needed to be out here Generally, if you do that, I just asked for a copy of those. So just send me a copy of those by email I'll go through them. We just did that for the town of Woodbury We did it back quite some time ago in the town of Plainfield That was my first True story of telling myself that my guys Pay attention and I was able to schedule things according to what Plainfield had done and it was incredible to see what the statistics were I hate to say it, we wrote a lot of tickets, but it showed that that's when the problems worked and it worked And we actually just did it in the town of Woodbury Based off of what they had for statistics Again, some of the neighbors were complaining at the time things were happening Were a little different than what the statistics proved, but I can tell you that It it proved out Are able to put people out at the time so it's happening and It is slow traffic down some not real early mornings yet, but we'll get to that when the time comes here Well, can you keep clarify that a little bit for me? So it it sounds like the Dude the complaints automatically go to the regional planning commission or so the town would have to report Tell me what we do One of the things we do is we usually want somebody either a member of the town clerk's office Or one of the slack work members to be a contact person for members of the town to be able to give those complaints to So that way we're not receiving 10 different complaints from 10 different people And as well what we're looking for is if you guys have a description of the vehicle Etc it gives us the ability to go and organize around we're going to ask what day of the week it's happening The time of the day it's happening And if you have descriptions so we can organize accordingly So the stuff with the planning commission is for long term to kind of pinpoint where the issues are They can do speed studies to figure out. Okay, is your are your speed limits appropriate? Whatever that case might be when it comes to the day-to-day complaints It'd be figuring out who is going to be your point of contact with our department namely captain wire So to get back to the the funding question each town sets aside either they do it Okay, we want you 10 hours a week just throwing a number out there or here is You know $30,000 for the year and divided up in different ways. So Either model works some most towns do okay This is the amount of money that we're going to budget for sheriff's operations for a year And then we figure out. Okay. How do we they like that? Or we won't concentrate on the summer and the winter is spread around the year round, you know, whatever The select board is looking for so there are different options for how this works So does that answer your your initial question that kind of started this this threat? Yeah, well, um, so the the previous like word budgeted for a thousand um So if we contracted for the same amount of hours Be roughly doubled basically right it's half the number of hours Well, not really because they didn't spend all that last year Uh Yeah, so we may spend more this is what we stand up to We could ask Sandra to run a fiscal year 22 report about how many hours if you're looking for the number of hours We could look at the invoicing that we got from them or like before a year You know, we can have a person get them by hours by mileage probably however you want. It's easy enough So number 10 in the contract you've given us Says you would agree to furnish deputy for so many hours per week We could leave that blank and just say we'll spend up to Whatever amount if you're going by a dollar figure. Yes, generally, that's how we do it And that way if in fact it comes down to okay, we've got a big problem And we need to address it and he puts it out here two or three days a week We can do it according Yeah, or until we've gone to the Doing it by the loan so it gives a lot more flexibility Okay, do you have parameters on times that you are more likely able to be able to schedule people to come and do I really appreciate the information from like the original planning vision like that would be super helpful But you were saying early warnings. I mean, I know going to work sometimes at 5 a.m I've got people who've been buying me Probably close to seven years 75 in the snow That is the hours that we're starting to hear the We may have to adjust the recording Again the woodbury complainers. I made it. I'm hearing complaints by 36 o'clock in the morning Of the races that are coming down through I'm 14 our patrolman's hours are very Questions Yeah, I just didn't know how much because I know overnight staffing and early morning staffing can be challenging Ultimately, our job is highly stopping. So we're going to just according to what's problems are not not made stuff from Okay, no, that's great because certainly we've had a lot of folks complaining about the speeding and um On the back roads and some of it probably is I feel like they're speeding but Speaking of speaking and such This is kind of your baby So here is an issue. There are a couple different issues. Um, and it all leads together One of the problems In the town of callas reflects on time is proper signage Unfortunately, we are required to sign our roads properly in order to get things through traffic. Of course One of your residents actually contested a ticket which Ended up making this decision now and it's called a secura decision And what that has to do is signage here in the town has to meet the mootsee standards federal standard So a number of the signage in a lot of different towns are still trying to use the 18 inch signs and I know there's still some out there and In callas, I don't believe those are even covered anymore Finally meets these standards. So I all have to be the new 24 by 30 signs I will be open with you because I know the other towns are trying to get signs They're very difficult to get right now because a woman on the short spot We're not allowed to make our own I've got some going to dark spray paint that I'm dying And no, you cannot We brought the documents based on how the signage has to be done at certain heights, etc On the different roadways for free town crews as well as I did bring also that decision Which is public information Based off the case being being settled in court. So those two things we do have for you to be able to read over Is that's like board members give those to our assist our interim row commissioner, right? And what the federal standards are So we got definitely be looking at different signage issues One thing I do notice a lot of the signs Speed zone signs are supposed to be on sign by themselves Not with neighborhood watch or any other signs on them just so you're aware And I see a lot of that a lot of the towns now because they don't want to put up an extra sign For the neighborhood watch, so they just throw it up But that actually makes that sign then no on board Which makes everything a 50 mile an hour zone That's And we want to do our best for you Obviously dealing with traffic court We want to be able to deal with that as well One thing I will hit on as far as traffic court is concerned back in 2016 the legislature went in and Basically we call the M&T program him and do the points for one Where depending on whether or not if you have prior points on your license Depends on whether or not we can zero point out a violation I'll leave it at that. The other thing they wanted to do and this came Where everybody having difficulties with paying fines etc. They wanted us to work with people on fines So when you go and see that a fine is supposed to be a just say 251 dollars A lot of the time we work on those penalties with people to Deal with it because of the high Dynamics One thing we're doing that we do a lot at the office So you basically are not involved in getting to be having to pay for the court time So dealing with things when we get into court a lot of times you're asked first thing From hearing loss there is have you tried to settle this matter? Or do you need to talk with us for the defendant in regards to this and they're basically pushing us to deal with it So just to your where I want you to know that up front Again, we do things for a highway safety purpose is not to make money for the towns There's a few stories out there that have been going around the press about sheriff's policing for profit That many towns are taking the ticket money and putting that back into the sheriff's services or into other budgetary line items this department does not Write tickets for income from the town or for ourselves the department doesn't get a dime of ticket revenue The towns if they have certain ordinances in place such as for speed stop signs parking A few other things do get a percentage of that money There's a few towns over the years that have tried to contract based on A monthly schedule of how many tickets you wrote and we'll do your next month's budget based on that We do not operate that way have never operated that way. It never will operate that way So other counties work a little bit different, but that is not an issue here We're there for highway safety Only not to write tickets so other questions Just to clarify because I have a hard time doing Multiple things at once, but I probably missed it. So I apologize to make you explain it again, but With regard to the like hourly out allocation or lump sum allocation Is is that one pot of resources for whether it's an emergency services like first responder call or or a scheduled traffic enforcement session sessions The way it usually works is we have x amount of dollars per year And if you have some set aside that okay, you want this for a couple days a year Now some towns have a big July 4th or you know, whatever Otherwise, it's kind of spread out throughout the year of three hours a week You know six hours a week whatever it turns out to be and we are scheduled at different places depending on where the These reports tell us where the problems are or where complaints are coming in So if there is some big emergency and you say you need some kind of assistance We will come out and help with that on the town contract But as far as okay a domestic assault comes in for example here in the town And you call us if we have somebody on in the town They will be going to that if we don't have anybody on at that particular time They will not be coming in state police would be coming to that So I answer your question. I think so. Yeah I think we're probably all doing calculus on a couple of subjects, but So our identities are on 24 hours a day seven days a week so There aren't that many so there are different talents at different times With that said though, we are first responders, but for example, if we're in Woodbury Something's going on in Calis I say we're going to go there to call the situation state police comes in And takes it over or whichever the case may be and vice versa If we're on here and something's going on in Woodbury or Worcester or Laos The good chance we're going to be gone We try to be as flexible as we possibly can that whole do more with with less get thrown around a lot But it's the reality of emergency services these days Who sorry I think so I Maybe just offer a comment for consideration. I don't know if any other town structure it this way, but it seems like it would be interesting to think about it in the perspective of a An allocation for Normal services rendered and then a separate pool of money for For other expenses that would fall outside of that like a court time I guess would If there are contested issues and you guys are having to go to court relative to work that was performed That's just built as part of that Right, right And generally to Our billing generally is like 15 20 minutes half hour per ticket is how she does a billing on that She just looks through and sees what the tickets have been Contestant goes through and Organized that way when she goes and builds for so I can tell you the court time and unless you have Like a DUI case or criminal matter where you actually got to go to court and testify a jury trial type thing You're not looking at a huge amounts of court time Well, thanks. Thanks for that. Yeah Who from the town is your main point of contact? Wherever you decide it is Many times it's one of your full-time staffers who's always in the office And they are included in planes normally come to about anything else. It's just keeping it one stop shopping For many years for you for a call was Denise All right, let's see. Are we ready to sign a contract or do we want to think about it a little more? So your current one continues through july 1st, so yeah, so we don't have to do this tonight You don't have to do it this evening, but if you want to we can simply put this is a contract for 4000 and we can sign tonight What is your pleasure? I think we should probably have Discussion about a later later date relative to some of the Signage work that's been discussed and maybe think about how we Yeah, okay So engage then we'll sign it and what do we do just send it to you? Send it back to the office and I will sign it. We'll send you back So I will give you my email If you want to take it down if you have any questions and you can give you captain wires as well We probably has his business card I'm so used to keeping them in pockets on hands that I don't have in this uniform But I always need my business card So Mine is mark m a r c Dot pool in p o u l i n At vermont spelled out dot gov g o v We are going to pants with those pockets here shortly Then you lose stuff Oh, well, they seal it quite nicely and they cost a third of the price of the box And anytime any questions by all means reach out we are here to help as much as we possibly can We try to be as responsive as possible in this circumstance. We appreciate that. Thank you Um And let's let nick Thank you, thank you very much Regional emergency management committee Is They are carrying out the requirements Of the emergency planning and community right to know acts with the federal The deals with identification of how these materials are proposed at risk, etc And we are asked So the regional committee there are several around the state and the central mar regional planning commission is doing the administrative end of this And they have sent us an appointment form They want us to appoint two people from the town annually And one is they recommend being emergency management director and the other one can be Someone as emergency service representative such as could be fire department could be someone from Anyway, we we uh An essential reform that has Uh, as me as the primary and Betty Cropland as the props for the second Um, but if anyone else wants to be the second representative We didn't want to just Preempt that decision. So it's it's open and Betty is volunteered to fill it But in either case we'd like you to sign the form We'll send on to the planning commission Give that to you if we sign it. Yes, or do we send it? Okay And you guys might know more about this than me It's a little disconnected because we're in the emergency planning process. We're fire rescue EMS is what we do. We're not so much in the towns Where does the piece feel like the select order more than likely be or the incident commander for a Irene type event We just kind of blended as the emergency services part of it. We have to command Yeah, you guys all get to go to eye is so training you haven't been to yet These are all the things you have to discover A lot of people think the fire department is the place to call When you don't have an answer we just call the fire department. Go figure that they call it and it's like no We're just a part of a bigger wheel We're just one little call And the town financing and the public works that all has to be coordinated and planned And the emergency management director of each town is supposed to be serving that function to keep everybody connected with communicating And we are there to support and provide information support communication to the first responders like the fire departments We don't we're not responders. We we're not going to the scene, but we're there to help coordinate During the event so you break into command finance logistics Will this be ems fire s u? That's all that you'll get to go to iso training. I'll teach you all about it All right, we discovered our own town when they thought oh the fire department runs all this one I agree And then you'll get a bright yellow And also you have more full Usually upstate When you call up for the ics center in watery their command center, they you have to work out sometimes to get things Okay, so I can't get So we're all willing to work with you on this when the time comes to go through this. I'm very happy to do it We're just this training and one of the things that our regional coordinator Harry shot and wants to come and talk Give you about this. It's a very tough Some is online others the league will put in a class Okay, so we'll learn about that another day Okay, and any other questions for nick No, in that case, um, let me see I'll take a motion to authorize me again to sign this regional emergency management committee appointing nick and Elizabeth as our emergency management director and services representative I can hand this to you rose when i'm done so you can get all that Sure I so moved second Further discussion all in favor All right Okay, thank you I've signed it nick and will you pass this down to rose please May I ask a question? So after rose gets what she needs from it We'll want to have that on file at the town office the original so can I take it tonight nick and then scan Yes, sand scan it to you and do you want me to send it to cvrpc or do you well? Awesome. Okay. Perfect. So let's take the original tonight so we can file it at the town office. I'll send you a scan Great. Thank you one more item for you As we may know the each year the town each town Files an updated emergency management plan local emergency management with the Vermont emergency management and it also then goes on to FEMA and We part of that has to do with the our local emergency operations center and Which is what we were just talking about And i'm wondering whether one of the members of the select board might want to be listed in this updated plan as being available To participate in the emergency operations center when it is activated during an event So it's it's a hopefully rare or never event Say a little more about what that would entail Well, I can let's see there are different functions within the emergency operations center. Some are administrative some are Being the liaison with the incident commander might be one of these guys Some of it is about just getting resources there or who's you know, you're going to be here for three days You're going to need something to eat in a place to sleep Um, so there are different functions depending on the severity of the incident but we thought Maybe a select board member might have perspective or Might be able to authorize an emergency expenditure or They'd be a free-floating role, I guess But uh, this is we've only activated the EOC once and that was a christmas When we opened up the shelter and some people came and spent the night who didn't have backup to eat So, uh, don't think this is going to be something that would hopefully never happens and We set it up just in case Okay, well, okay, so and I'll be in touch with you about that. Well, that's anyone wants to fight me for I But I know the thing over Christmas that was something, you know, just in our location, certainly However, I could be more involved. Yeah We'll put your name on the document and you can always change your mind Yeah, I think it's important for a town representative to be involved in You know, not to exclude yourselves all from that Part of the operation Would you like her to come to that meeting when you do the final you're going to come to us on the 24th with the plans, right? Would you like and to come to the meeting where you finalize that plan so you can start getting familiar with it? Oh, um I think we're almost there. I think I've almost done it But I would I would like to send you the draft in advance if you're meeting on the 24th So you don't have a chance to look at it before So when nick and the group hosted that emergency shelter training of several weeks ago here on a saturday I attended that so I'm on the form now also as a communications person on behalf of the town of callous Other questions for nick. Yes. So, um this paper here appoints Nick and um Elizabeth Copeland to this emergency management committee for a term of one year And it's different than what the agenda says About appointing them as the emergency manager management director for our town So just wanted to be clear that that's why my mistake. Thanks rose go with that go with this Do we already reappoint you for this term for this year? I don't know. But let's not add that to your agenda. Yeah, we just we just sign it there. Consider that their reappointment. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, I think so. Would you please pass this to Barbara? Thank you Anything else here before we move on? slightly on the subject, I guess nick it seems like a lot of the items that you've been working on are kind of needing to be reviewed and communicated annually There's a lot of dialogue with you and other outside agencies In a fairly official capacity. I'm wondering if we should add an emergency Email address for nick to use to the list of email addresses that we're preparing To implement it was on the excel spreadsheet. I've said to you a few weeks ago. Yeah, was it on there? Okay. Yeah, okay. Great. Thanks for that. Yeah That's an email address that I should be aware of Uh, not yet Not yet, but it's on his spreadsheet. Yeah Okay, anything else for any of our emergency management people who are still standing. I have a quick question. Have you promoted a 9-1-1 coordinator yet? We have, but that might be changing. We'll get to you as soon as we're done for sure Getting us added on dispatch. I have to go through your coordinator to get us dispatched. He's got to go on their stuff And so I'll email you about Who that is Okay, they have to make that change none of us can do it Interesting. Okay. Yeah, the whole 9-1-1 board's a whole other layer of Yeah, I just Yeah, we'll call this email. I just knew what he didn't have. I didn't want to bug you if he didn't have it I'll email you All right, thank you All right, once again, we're waving my schedule Thank you Um Two little things before we get to reports. Um, one is reappointment of all the callous volunteers. Barbara has Called everybody who is serving whose term was up and every single one of them said they wanted to be reappointed You've all seen the spreadsheet Any questions? Okay, I'll accept a motion to approve appointment of all those people on the spreadsheet Actually, I'm sorry. I do have a question is does that come after if somebody makes a motion? Uh, it could I just want to go I just saw a four-year term on there and that seems like a long time. But what's that for? Uh Conservation commission I think that's what that's correct. That's correct. It's a four-year term It's at the town report Okay Would somebody like to move that list or the reappointment of all the people on that list? So moved Okay, did you get that that was janey? Do we have a second? Second and seconded Any more discussion all in favor? I okay Um, and then just I hope I think this next one will be quick. Um John Is has done some research Um, we've got a couple of issues. One is the noise people have been complaining about reverberation in here And how we need to find ways to dampen the noise We're going to be looking for some long-term solutions And at some point we can talk to john about that but not tonight But meanwhile one short-term solution would be to put shades on the windows And john's been doing some research on that. Will you tell us about it? Yeah, um each window get two roller shades one mounted At the top rail another is parting round top shade to be operated by a chain kind of thing So you don't have to reach all the way up there to pull it down The one hum at the parting rail you just pull it down. They are They're pretty traditional. It's what the building used to have And they were back in the 50s 40s and 50s And uh, they'll go a long way and uh, actually controlling the reflected sound and they'll go a long way in controlling That's some of the overeating place feels in the summer, especially the afternoon sign that comes in the west windows So that's that's the one thing they cost for the felt shades Between 40 and 50 dollars roughly it's it's going to be between five and six hundred dollars On the online price was around 600 bucks and then when I talked to a representative she said well we'll get it to you for less than that So it's going to be between five and six And I'm not going to order them until I see the colors in person What are the colors? You're leaning towards safety orange It kind of goes from white to linen to beige to light beige to fat beige To ecru to champagne Anyway, that's the start Another thing is uh, you know, we're too low presented something to you guys about Got the materials for mounting this but because this will be used for town government Having maps showing up like the zoning districts, for example, that kind of in person maps We've got maps showing natural resources that will directly impact the the town plan and should turn impacts the zoning rights So these things are important and citizens should be able to have access to them and so That kind of stuff hanging from the wall for a long way and controlling reflected sound And I believe is working on a quilt Well, we have to we have um I don't have to do a display in memory of the mission leads And we actually have a meeting minutes to go back to 1870 And so the big picture over there the mission ladies and then I have pictures at home or call us historical society from the 50s 60s 30s and And that would be something on the wall that would help with the sound and then we have a quilt that Um Alexandra quite wanted at the mill And then we have another quilt. It was done probably in the 60s by the mission ladies And it's um, it's more of a wall hanging and it's all of its different buildings in town And different women did a different building in town and I have their names who did which square So the idea is to have some kind of historic things on the wall That relate to the town that will help On the aesthetic with ladies Henry ladies reflective sound is I also intend to uh deal with the floor Once and for all I've tried different ways to lubricate it. So it doesn't creep and crack the way it does It's going to just screw it down um But I because just rating tubing just requires a branch below the wood I don't want to hit that Thing is having chairs that are pad right and so friends of the town hall have padded chairs of stairs So I think that maybe we should ask them if we can borrow them and try that out and see how that works They're all a bunch of little steps, but I believe it'll all work with them all together Right I think it's important to use this building because that's what we renovated for So what do you need from us right now? You need us to authorize up to 600 dollars or yeah, yeah That's okay. Then I'll just order them and And do we have to authorize you to hang things on the wall? Okay, any questions on that So I know if a treasurer were here, she would ask that You not pay 600 dollars in those reimburse you. We would rather not do a lot of reimbursements So Okay, I mean You'll have to make the purchase. So I'll I'll get the information Or I believe you the credit card information either way we can work it out But we the town treasurer would rather not do degrees Yeah So what do you guys think you want to authorize some money for some shades? Yeah Okay, somebody please make a motion I move that we authorize John McCullough to purchase shades Do you want to put a cap on how much you can spend? I'm to 600 dollars. 630 is that 630 is the worst case 650 Why'd you say 650 that's good. Okay 650 rows Second second any further discussion on that Okay, all in favor All right. Okay. Great. Thanks John Oh, or maybe you didn't think about it. Would you just like to hear from them? um Would you like to give the most recent update I guess? Or no, let's just hear Yeah, yeah, let's hear from them first Like us to introduce ourselves I'm Jamie Morby On this CPA as well Gabrielle William And I'm Anne Wichester Anne Toulon Jordan Keyes So I just We've actually never met until tonight but I I I briefed him very briefly just saying that We all the reasons why it would be great if we could do it this year and that I said that this like word wanted to hear from him about himself but also What he thought about what the process steps were and could we could we could we do it this year so that we could be in construction Lake summer and early fall And I said that you guys would ask the questions you want to dance And I guess Well, why don't why don't you ask the question you asked of those other attorneys? About whether or not the documents could be ready in time for a may 15th going to bond Would you like them? Well, so Jamie had picked that up and since Picked up that line of communication had sent that over to our attorneys for other advisement and So I guess the What we're looking for I guess is a little bit of clarification from your perspective on on what Uh What the pertinent like deadlines are for trying to pursue Bonding and then what some of the Deliverables we need to be In place basically to make sure that that can legitimately happen And that the town is Sufficiently authorized to be soliciting bonds Um for for a project Given given kind of the complications of this particular project and every damn project is different, right? Certainly so just by way of background I've been a municipal bond attorney Close to my professional life and was graduating from law school when I came to work for a big New York City law firm doing municipal municipal finance Uh came to to return to Vermont after Going to the University of recovery month. So in 1989 I've been practicing bond law Municipal law as well as commercial finance in Vermont Mark reached out to me some some time ago To to be engaged by the Curtis pause association to help with the project And also to to look at in front of the tax exam perspective given that That there were some Issues that the town wanted to address in terms of not wanting to take ownership while until the improvements and the repair Was completed and I had had some some ideas on that I understand that the town meeting that the bond vote was was presented and passed for up to $450,000 Um, so just in terms of deadlines, I haven't gotten into specifics on all the issues. I you know, there's there's The normal course and the best course for for most town governments in the state is to go through the Vermont bond bank Um, that's not a requirement bond banks their rates that are good because it's it's The pricing is an interest rates have set off the state of Vermont's credit credit rating And they usually do two two bond issues a year the the majority of the towns Have after their town meeting get their applications in I believe the typical deadline is about May 15 The bonds are issued in in july and that's when the proceeds are available to be loans to the to the municipality The bond bank just closed in early march It's it's winter borrowing That just had four or five municipalities. I had two two municipalities that went through that that borrowing pool So, you know a lot of the the the documentation at least for the borrowing needs to be completed by that may 15th deadline Because the the bond bank wants to know that the town is committed has has its necessary voter approvals That the vote follow the statutory requirements and and because then they Use that to formulate their plan of financing to issue There have been times when things between the application and the approval process by the bond bank And by the time they're actually going to market I I do know of some municipalities that had to withdraw because of Issues or challenges or Not something that that you would want to count on, you know, because it does create issues with bond bank That's a state agency. You want to Have that follow but but I think here because of the ownership issues, you know, working out the Whether it's a reputable dedication or whether it's a quick clean deed for anyone who might have a Property interest and the dam to be able to convey that to the town It's probably the biggest the biggest hurdle and and I I can't offer deadlines or the deliverables because I don't know how many property owners I did as I do And and have not done any title work to know who who who has what because I think the town wants to make sure you're getting all the full property rights and and not We've started construction That's you're on my property There is an opportunity that that with the bond vote even even if you don't meet the bond bank's deadline You can always do a bond anticipation and go to a local bank And borrow for up to a one-year period to be paying some of those those expenses, so And and so, you know interest rate on a short term Taxes that know, you know, most the local banks do have some that do have interest in that I know the community bank has done that and to the bank But now owner of what was people's united formerly jittenden Has has done that So that's that's an opportunity to use as well while if if you want to get the money to start construction And you haven't met the the bond bank schedule. That's enough Another opportunity is is the use of If you have under strict a general fund money You can do what's called the reimbursement resolution and I I would If I was the town's bond council, I would recommend that it's a reimbursement resolution that's done for tax purposes That if you're spending money on a capital project with an expectation of being reimbursed You want to adopt what's called a notice of official intent that you're Using general fund money. You're paying the capital costs of the project And when you ultimately do issue the bond a tax exempt bond, you're going to reimburse You're the general fund for those those expenditures Not so much in general, but you're using general fund money with an anticipation that you'll Ultimately what you do bond you'll get that money back and that will go to the general fund. So that's that's another avenue that that's um To extend you've got funds available for general funds so you can can use that for that project with again that expectation That you'll you'll be reimbursed So those are you know, kind of the I I know there's the issue of of the deeded rights. That's probably your your biggest hurdle here Parmots and and the permits And in terms of getting those those Do the permits have to be issued in order for the bond bank to apply to the bond bank and no no they don't Um, you know, it's it's a question when the bond bank is comfortable with that risk Because when the bond bank issues its bonds and makes the loan And the loan closes the town doesn't have a right to to prepay So if someone says oh, we're not going to go ahead with the project We've got $450,000 bond proceeds. We're going to give it back to you and let's let's cancel the loan You don't have that right with with the bond bank because they set up their their schedule For for repayment and their bonds are Are fixed interest rates so they they don't have the luxury of them taking that money But they loan to you getting it repaid and then immediately paying off their bonds So that's that's a you know a risk issue for them. I know a lot of projects have gone through where some of the Not as significant permits Building permits or for ones that are In this damage nothing's perfunctory, but that's something that's more administrative Can I ask I just want to ask a couple of questions to clarify um at this point the engineer who's done the Engineering for the project who he's been retained by the town with funds provided by the cpa That's the boy in king He's been in constant contact with the dam safety folks That's the major permit And what he says is that they are he's comfortable with the permit You know, of course, he can't be positive, but he's fairly comfortable and he's testified that Is that the kind of thing that bond Is that enough for the bond bank or they're going to really want that permit issued? um It depends. I Um, I can't speak to them Speak on their behalf as to that issue. Um, you know, a lot of times You know, it's it's one of the aspects of the application whether the permits are at hand And how much risk they want to take that this is How secure the project expenditures are they're going to be so So we just have to see yeah, and I I'm happy I have a very good relationship with their example director Michael Speak to them on You can get a better sense for the panelists to how How many of you view this? The only other question I have for give me but I'm just trying I never had a chance to ask this What what we have is we have two owners One of whom doesn't want to be on and the other whom asserts that he really isn't an owner But both of whom the CPA has worked with and they'll sign documents So they're the two either rebel offers of dedication or Good claim deeds, whichever we want to do The We do have property descriptions of the dam In the area, but you know, I'm sure there might be some additional work But that's pretty much what we need is we need those documents drafted And we need a review of the What do you call it the Well, but you also need the right of access documents. Yeah, there are three right at the three Right, there's one other document which is The road that leads to the dam the first 20 feet or 40 feet of it You you have to traverse that in order to get to the dam and repair it. It's called camp road It's a private road So we would need an easement of repair right of repair over that and of course they're lay down easements For construction, but we are assuming those would be dealt with by the engineering firm But those three documents Would need to be drafted and I'm just is that something your firm could do We could do that, you know The the challenge with any easement right away property descriptions is You know, if we need to do the the title work We go through all the land records to do to confirm who has the ownership rightful ownership and then also with even with an easement That they haven't mortgaged If If the private road is part of their property description and they have a home mortgage Or any kind of commercial mortgage on on that Then you want the the mortgage holder to basically Give a partial release of that interest needs and so that if their home is foreclosed And and you haven't gotten that release then your easement could be effectively foreclosed So those those that's the so yes, we can do it The issue is are we being provided with the full You know, someone's saying yes, these are the the rightful owners This is the status of title or or whether we have what did Jamie hasn't that been done I think we have a lot of it um And we have to see if we have to provide you what you have and then you'd have to tell us what's missing What's missing right or whether we can rely on that that's that would be sufficient or whether whether not so much What's missing whether we would need to do our additional How many private roads are there I would it doesn't look like a private road. It's like a road Cam road is by It's owned by the the father deals phone the whole that whole part of the I mean what all the time At least at least half of us and what happened was as they sold off lots They provided every lot and easement over the road is my understanding and it's just there and So they own they They don't want to own the dam And they assert they don't but they're willing to sign whatever document it is to make this happen. So they really don't But they do own the road and they do own the road So the the road easement would only have to be with father gill or would it have to be with every just just the other Yeah, and that that's that's the question. It's like when they conveyed a camp of campsite or a property did they give a Um an exclusive right-of-way Over that camp road or is it just a shared we're giving you any basically an easement So they can they can then are free to grant an easement to anybody else So that's that's that's part of it's general is not exclusive. So that's a lot. There's like Right few almost 40 And that's that's I think some of the challenge But but some of the items that you you want to know in advance and manage that some of that As you're starting or years from it Some coming in and saying You know, we have the exclusive right and never we or predecessors title never gave you the town Can't imagine anybody in their right minds would want to take possession of a dam I think that's in part kind of the problem Historically nobody has wanted to Very fresh to this. So I don't want to mischaracterize anything but You know, nobody would want to take ownership or claim ownership of the dam of the dam proper Because that would then assume liability for the maintenance of it And so, you know, I could understand kind of an active effort to say I don't own it But then that puts everybody in a weird position when somebody has to then take ownership of it and And how and how does that happen? Especially if there isn't any Tangible evidence or documentation of of an origin of ownership And I I'm kind of curious Whether or not a a subdivision Of the parcels Would would be a way of expediting the ownership situations So that the townmen Is given the proper, you know, it becomes the owner of the property that the dam resides on And then by default Owns then owns the dam Is that a fair understanding of that I I'm not sure that you need to do a subdivision of it so much as a Conveyance and a quick claim from someone who might have that that interest So so if the land records and the title show that they their property Meets and bounds description or for general conveyance included that By the quick claiming any interest that they may have to to the town Would be would be sufficient No a quick claim deed which is one of the ways of doing this essentially Says I don't I'm not going to acknowledge or define what I own But whatever it is with respect to this property But whatever it is It's yours That's the advantage of the quick point And there are to our knowledge only two parties who could conceivably have an interest one of them father bills Years and years ago Around the time this happened the last time no In 2005 or 2003 I think There was in the middle of one attorney saying we've disclaimed any interest in this property and the other saying so you can't do that You know, and so it's a perfect situation for clearing it up by just saying Whenever I have It's yours, which of course they want one of the great advantages of this situation is there's not a dispute Where someone actually wants it and it's fighting somebody else for it Did you said they already did a quick clue? No, they did what they I think they called it They disclaimed Interest in the property Which to my knowledge they could not do effectively in the latter a little bit I can't but they that's right. It's a personality issue where The cpa has built a relationship with father dill where he understands that this is the way that we can finally clear all this up They were told they were liable and they said no we don't own it That's that's that was what happened way back when And they wanted to get rid of it and we said, well, no, you can't I I just wanted to ask has anybody seen the um the actual title search document the scroll that paul galey's did Because I have seen the what the scroll The title search on the dam. Yes. He presented that here to the select board probably 20 something years ago And so it's all Yes questions, please anybody So it seems to me there's sort of three things That all kind of happened Simultaneously sort of the next three things to do one is all of these legal documents. We're discussing one is prepping for the bond bank And the third which we haven't talked about is Finalizing and putting out the rfd. That's what I meant. I wanted to mention the rfd. There's an rfd. I told you that The buoyant king is done Two cover sheets of different sorts and one big packet of the typical So Yeah, so I guess the question is Does it Does it work to do all three of those things sort of simultaneously? Actually, there's a fourth thing the mo you Right, we have an mo you between the cpa and that select board that Um, but I don't think we want to go forward without reviewing that and making very clear What are the duties of each party? Right going forward, which that mo you does not spell out. It's true And isn't there an mo you necessary with all of the adjacent? um homeowners that for for during construction That's an easement During the one let's let's tease this apart Whenever you do a project the engineer and company or the contractor They have forms and they They work with the adjacent landowners to they're called lay down easements or at least as they're called in my experience Where they have a right to you know park their trucks on the property, etc and those would have to be negotiated with The heises and with who is the elder of the bluebird? three families so That's just sort of something that would we'd want to do You know reasonably quickly in terms of a document Originally way back when I imagined the situation where there would be a contract of some sort it would Give the town the unilateral right to record These documents and it would be signed by everybody including owners and cpa and so Since then I've kind of wondered whether something much simpler like an escrow instruction Would or or just if the if I don't know in vermont whether Whoever is the attorney would be the escrow and they would just hold these documents well enough. I wonder If I could interject one other consideration because I think what was new since our last conversation Jamie I think you met with sandra to just kind of do a checking in of accounting Just to kind of see what the state of the state is On funds that have been contributed paid out all that And I think what had been established is that there is a There is a dedicated And for lack of there a dedicated account or a dedicated of funds basically on the books for the project And I don't know how officially that was Created but theoretically that that creates a dedicated area to receive funds into that would theoretically be conditioned on use for On a particular project, you know couldn't be appropriated, but it could be funded through I think that it's really easy For us to have even just a letter Right cpa Says The cpa says Um, we're going to put all this money in the towards the project and anything else we raise for it And the town says and we'll use it for the project and if the project falls apart we'll give it back to you and Yeah, and extended part for ask you and I think that's pretty much what you have to say I think um in kind of reviewing some exchanges that that We've had on on this side and getting some kind of clarity on on what the situation is. I think that That's a fair assessment in some ways Because this cpa hasn't Officially drafted or created any of the the documents the exception of the applications which the town at this point has Submitted joined Officially, you know that that simplifies the agreement because really it's it's about making sure that the town has the resources that you fundraise then get those applied to the the downside is that There's the there's the actual creating and drafting of the documents that that has to be done And the scheduling of of that work and research But but I think to your point it does somewhat simplify the nature of the agreement because now the town is in a position of organizing all of the documents and taking ownership of the directive to To do the project and execute it so That's that's something for consideration I think I mean as far as I can tell that's all that Whatever the agreement has to do it has to establish The money is there Our money. I'm going to speak to cpa. Our money is your money and that That we have or will give you whatever we raise for the dam project and um We need to transfer those funds And then the town needs to assure the cpa that don't have the project and the mou is a kind of Oratory document. I'll send it to you. It says we all want this to happen and we're going to work on it together And that's pretty you know, it's that kind of a Dr It's that specific if I was representing the town. I want certainty that the cpa is committing those funds so that it's an enforceable Promise And there's a little bit of Question about what the mechanism would be for for receiving that and then making sure it's in those funds You can get allocated. I'm not up to speed on On how that has to be set up, but if it's a dedicated account, you know, we can't just Magic it or just list another account it needs to exist But it sounds like it has it's already does because Yeah, because it's already Been receiving money into it. So that is a dedicated account. I think it's been there a long time Yeah, I've had a balance of about $5,000 wouldn't be deposited $50,000 into it So I think it was from a previous Effort, so I think the account or that line item in the budget Bank has been there longer than This current Now going back to I think one of your the first question was a lot of it does need to happen Simultaneously because so much is dependent upon upon the other and getting Firm bids on on the cost and also this the schedule. I mean, there's still difficulty getting materials I don't know if they're whether it's gravel cement, you know, one of the materials There's lead time And that the contractors may not be prepared to commit to the to the schedule when there's when it's low low water So and you don't want to have interest accruing and having to make payment and no, okay, we've got a whole year of delay That we're paying interest on on this money before we can Spend it on the actual project. So a lot of that is Talking about earlier with the bottom back is knowing that this project is going to happen that there's a Whether it's permits or Right-of-way easements Title is it was ready to to be conveyed That would be one of the things that we would ask that the town would ask The bond council is that they Very quickly review the rfts make sure it's okay. So we could get it out and Get answers The last one we just closed in March and for 20 year of bond it was an average of about Three six slightly under four three three six three seven And these bank ones you were talking about A bank bond anticipation note for a private a private bank that Again, it really depends on on the timing But that would that would be only for one year. So that that should be a much lower rate than the 3.6 Range I was talking about is the average rate For going for a repayment term of 20 years your bond anticipation note is due If Within a year or earlier when you wish issued the bond Then you repay them from with the proceeds and you can't repay it faster than 20 years With the you can you can set up your repayment on the on the bond through the bond bank No greater than 20 years So your first principal payment has to be due within the first five years But you can do an earlier earlier Schedule you can pay it off in 10 years. You can do it five years That's really a You know financial question is to it's to but that has to be done at the time of that has to be established at close And and that is fixed for the for the term. So And they they sell the bonds and then tell you the interest rate based upon what repayment schedule You have and the principal needs to be either equal or diminishing amounts The concept is you're not pushing off to the future taxpayers the cost of the project that those who are benefiting today Are basically paying their share over the over the up to 20 20 year 20 year term So that's that's a question of how long you want to spread out the payments What's the impact on on the tax rate to your to your residents to your taxpayers? Is it your opinion that the the qualifiers for the bond application would be pretty similar to The bond anticipation note if we were going to Try to pursue a bond anticipation note and as an interim for for the bond Like so the hurdles, you know the same hurdles of laydown easements quick claims And Would we essentially have to would they have the same risk assessment on on either side whether it's the bond bank or the I I think less because I think the bank would say Okay, you've got other sources of money that you're using before I want to know that your project is Is you know real But their their security is that you're going to be issuing the bond So yeah, they're going to want to know that the project is sufficiently a viable But they also have this security of you could just then reissue another bond anticipation note to pay them to pay them off There is that that opportunity So they have that additional you know additional security unlike the bond bank, which is The bonds are issued for up to a 20 year term No opportunity to Pay early Do you guys I don't want to take too much time, but just very briefly When the bond bank issues bonds They accumulate everybody's request and let's say it's 50 million bucks then they Put out an RFP essentially Announcing that they want this and they get bids for 50 million. What would your interest rate be? They open them up. They take the lowest one boom at that point they get the 50 million bucks But they have to pay they have to pay The interest and principal on that bond And so what they do is they turn around to the let's say 30 municipalities and they Money that each municipality wanted they loaned to the municipality and the municipality pays them back So at the moment those bonds are they send the bonds. They're like they bought the farm So They want to know this is a real project Definitely But given that these are general obligation bonds whether this project is concluded or not The town is ultimately on the hook for the reading Might have just gone to the tax payers you know, but I think you're still the security is is still there And that's why you know to the point of a bank their security is also that the issuance of the bond or that you can Questions the other thing I'll say more for our information I think than a question but When I was talking to Sandra our town treasurer Friday, maybe Thursday She we were talking about the bond And she has gone through The bond application process for another town So she would be happy to work or whoever Our bond council is and feel she could do a large portion of the application in that Aspect of okay, so where are we we I guess the most important thing is the rfp It's not right. We've got to get the rfp done. I just think we've got to get these I think the quick clean deeds Making getting to bond council all the information that we have and having them say Gosh, this looks pretty good or gosh We got some issues to work out or something But but I think we have to do the rfp first because we've got to get it out So people can be working on their bids and then we can turn to those other docking Okay Can we do all that and be ready to go to the bond bank by the 15th of May Also, I thought the rfp was going to come from the town of callus that should own the dam before it issues the rfp I don't know. That's not my understanding Yeah, so we're I'm in my family currently engaged by the Curtis pond association and on behalf of the association We'd be happy to review the rfp You know the association said Thomas here's here's all the the title work that we have if you Determined whether quick clean deed radical dedication and combination of both How those would work we'd be happy, you know to to start out of that But but then, you know the ultimate bond council work because they have the other ones That would deliver the opinion would need to go through the process to say this is a real project render their opinion to the bond bank with the borrowing That that would be you know comment on that but on behalf of the association we could do some of that Assisted assistance to the town to further the project, you know, I would comment on that Can I make your comment on that? I'm sorry if I'm being overly clear here You guys in terms of deciding who bond council is you probably want to do that in executive session. Yeah And that means two weeks from now when you meet next We're meeting every week. Are you meeting? I'm lucky. This is okay This is actually several times Anyway Or the another thing Your bond council, correct me if I'm wrong is paid for out of the proceeds of the bond in other words You don't advance money to pay your bond council, you know monthly when they send you invoices Just pay it out of the proceeds of bond. That's how they work This real estate kind of work that he just described that's different That's where the firm builds you So my feeling is in this case That since the money all the money is in one bucket in other words everything we have we're going to give to you We're just we're just hope there's enough, you know, so For us to pay Them to do the work to start this up is something we can do When you want and when you feel comfortable and that's up to you. I just want to say I hadn't really Comfortized this until today, but we couldn't do that So can I ask another opinion? I guess How comfortable would you be working with Transactional documents drafted Prior prior to bond application work Um, if My client Instructs me or requests makes that request So I might might do these to my client and so absolutely right now. It's the Kurdish bond association I understand the relationship is is Cooperative plus that that both parties want this done. So The direction the request to me is Move move the process of law. So Yes, I'm happy doing You know what what I what I can um, I'm also you know, I I need to make my own independent legal judgment on on items Um, and I imagine well, yeah, I guess that's what I'm kind of asking council kind of asking on the on the opposite side, you know You you and the other person choose type situation given the Just kind of the nature of the quick claims that have to be drafted just because there's there's a lot of gray area there And some legal interpretation And a lot of research a lot of research that needs to be done just to make sure that The quick claims are copa aesthetic Who would would some of that research still need to be done by bond council to To feel confident to say that you know the That this bond associated with this project is tied to these other documents relative to quick claiming And and would those just need to be researched anyway? Or looked at with a certain amount of scrutiny As as a part of the evaluative process It would depend When I'm when I'm starting this bond council on factual matters, we rely on engineers We rely on on the town. It's it's a factual matter system too Because the bond council is do you have the the the end result for bond councils is typically Do you have the voter approval? What's what's the security? Has the voter approval in the process met the statutory requirements? Is is the pledge of the full faking credit of the town the general obligation the tax pledge Is that been appropriately documented and is that are the terms of the repayment? Aligning consistent with what the voters voters Approved and so from that perspective a lot of the other aspects on permits Uh, etc. It's that the bond is the bond and whether you get a permit or not. It's the the repayment obligation is is still there Um, representing and so As bond council you may not You know, you may say to the town This is this is your business decision. This is your your policy matter Um, and and you But if I'm representing the town individually then and I understand that the town is Adversity no liability with the current condition of ownership of the dam under its current condition Um wants to make sure that it it does have the legal access to do the repairs all those aspects Um, then then I have to do that, you know, or my my firm Needs to do that that work or have other professionals that we can Comfortably rely upon in their professionals assessment You know a lot of times the bond council when we're bond council just doing the financing We rely on others who might do all the title work with the real estate But then our municipality is has the relationship with them and Relax, you know, sometimes there's two two firms involved Um, one who's doing the project work the permitting the real estate and then they the bond council Yeah, no it does. Thank you. No, I appreciate it. I want to be sure get real got her question answered about the The ownership of the dam and at what point we take ownership With the uh with the rfp Yeah So it's okay to issue an rfp without doing the legal the the what you call a transactional document, right? Yeah um I think that the bigger issue is, you know, the rfp getting bids and and It would assume the rfp would say you have the right to to reject any and all bids Decide to to You know in turn to negotiations Unless you're using, you know, federal money or a state grant requires a competitive bid Vermont itself doesn't have a competitive bidding requirement so so Before you sign the contract though and commit money You'll want to know that you have all of your other elements So that when you tell the contractor Go ahead go on site That they're not going to be met with You have the legal right to issue an rfp Without owning the dam and in fact, you know one of them the dam until the work is done but You don't want to sign the contract Oh, and you issue an rfp is risk-free more or less. I mean as long as you do it, right? You don't you have the right to because he said reject all the bids But you don't want to accept a bid and enter into a contract with somebody Until you know you've got the money and things are lined up Which so you'd want the good claim deeds you'd want the I think before you enter into a contract you probably at least want to know that that's there's no problem there It's the is to protect you It's not a legal requirement. It's a question of financial protection Um, I mean with the store and we were doing the store, you know, we had A closing would be signed every time I wouldn't sign anything Until I knew that all the money was there Which store is calis? You know, it's it's not law. It's finance two questions related to ann's question first would be if if we decided to go that route um Would you be able to be our bond council? And how does that relate to you being cpa's council? And I told him that we would release him Because I if I was bond council and like my client goes to town That's where my loyalty is and I would find it a conflict of interest to do any work on for this project with this With the association so association to You know, we need to to part us friends and then my loyalty shifts from Cpa to the town But hypothetically, I see it would have to reformally release Wave any conflict you release him And then the second part is if that were to happen in the next week or two So Back to ann's question. Do you think all of these? You don't know until you Get started. I understand. I don't but is it like potentially feasibly Realistic to get through this this year or is it too crunch? It's it's it's it's an aggressive schedule That's very pragmatic I know I don't do the real estate, you know Do real estate work, but I need one of my colleagues to be involved and that wasn't that and I need to check with them That's to you know, their schedule They have a lot of prior to calling commitments to be able to get that done The questions All right, am I just sorry, did you look too much now on braindead? Am I understanding You cpa could ask tom to do the rfp and the Those other little contracts the access and all that And then later perhaps you could release him and he could be our bond counselor. Yes All right Yes, in other words If he's going to be your bond counselor, then that's what you would want I mean what I mean is you you don't want us paying for your bond council You know, but then you absolutely not No, no, I'm just trying to understand what it what is we could ask in what the path forward is here to look at everything Okay, jordan question for you. What have we committed right now to stitzel page? So They're working on the mo you is that right? um they're prepared uh to uh solidify the mo you with an agreement that that would help line um Transfer of funds that you know, whatever the conditions are that we would want in that to you know Protect the towns need uh to receive the funds from uh from the cpa And it's an evolving conversation because we're running through it so fast, but um What has kind of Changed is that it is somewhat simplified now because there isn't a lot of official work tangible things aside from The research that has acted there aren't drafted agreements that have already been signed that sort of thing, um, so But my question is what so we haven't we're we're still working on getting kind of clarification on timetables and what can be What can be achieved in a certain amount of in a certain amount of time before that may 15th deadline So so what have they started working on already? Uh just just the agreement, but even that they need uh, they need direction on Well, yeah, they they need they need to know that we don't That we don't need it to be this comprehensive thing that goes through all these different things that says, you know You promise to deliver us this this this this etc etc because those things don't don't exist at this point It's it's a it's going to be its own very simple transactional document that just protects both both parties interests in and how the funds are allocated and where they get allocated from so from my perspective that that has been somewhat Streamlined because we have a fund set up for it that can be called out and allocated and we also have uh That's really just about the funding. I guess I would ask are you on a depression that if you're silent That they are continuing to work on this or are they waiting for you? Uh, I would say that they're they're waiting on us at this point, uh to They're they're not even on the MLU. Okay. Yeah. Yes. Oh, thank you. That's what I wanted to know So so I just would ask that you guys as soon as you reasonably can Let us know Whether you want us To you can work them all Yeah, I think we have to go into executive session to discuss all this. Would you guys agree on that? That's what I was uh, gonna ask if that would uh If that's something that we could accommodate and have a conversation about Yeah, because there are some issues that I think we should talk through. Yeah So that's one in the suing week what I can do is I can provide him Just so that the transmission has happened What I got we can make sure that he has what we have Yeah, and just let that let it lie until you construct us well and uh, and um And that's that's what I would that that information is Is something uh that that we need really that they're Council at the moment is is poised to take action and do work on these things if the If they have the information but right now they haven't been provided the information And it's been a little bit of a question of what information is there. They don't know what the there is So we need you know the contact information the names of the property owners All that stuff kind of categorized so that they can But they don't need that for the mo you I thought you said they would have an mo you for us by the 27 Part of 17th uh 17th. Sorry. Yes They would have an agreement relative to our feedback, but that was Conversation that was had Monday morning and that we had a meeting Monday evening that changed the scope of that work pretty significantly because the information that we were given Was that there actually isn't anything to hand over I mean, they've been kind of waiting at this point since we've decided to openly collaborate on on these issues on the particular issue waiting to receive Things and those things do not exist with the exception of the draft rfp, which they're Uh, which they're willing to look at, you know, they they are still very concerned about the the timetable which I think everybody is concerned about the timetable, um, and They have to do their own research at work If I may offer i'm happy to work with other law firms, you know, and particularly given the time frame right having More hands, you know working on it and compartmentalizing What what the firms are doing so I think that's that's a fair conversation to have is a division whether a division of labor on certain issues Is something that can be mutually Agreed upon, you know by by both parties We have to discuss that with with the cda is It's just a variant or you know with the the town the town as well Um, okay Okay, I think that's as far as we can go tonight then until we've had a chance to go into executive session Which we'll we'll definitely do next monday. I guess We keep pushing it back, but I don't know how else to do it. We can't do it tonight. Okay, great. Thanks. Yeah, thanks Thank you I Uh, oh, and of course it's 8 30 Pardon me Yeah, thank you. Um, well, why don't we at least finish up the Curtis pond Piece of it and let's talk about I think we can hear from Gabrielle at least on arpa So, um CPA Do you have other uh, Curtis pondam a liaison? Sorry. Do you have other things to report at this point? We have a letter of support that's drafted Um in connection to our grant request that the CPA put in a while back So that's the letter from mariah to mariah to mariah or not. Okay You don't got that. Okay And it's it's similar to I don't know if everybody's seen it. It's in the drive folder It's it's just a letter from the select board saying yes, we're In partnership with the CPA on this project and we support this grant application The rose do you understand what that is? That's this is this would be a letter of support for the CPA To apply for a grant Which would give them $7,500. Is that right Jamie? I don't see it here No, it's it's sorry not to exceed 5 000. So I had it right in the first place I see incorrect. Yeah Not to exist. I guess I got it wrong in the last minutes then um, not to exceed 5 000 for the purpose of um In in engaging a grants admin a grants person to write our grants A comment on that which is I've worked with Liz curry a couple of different times and in different settings and she's really really great to work with and um So if we were looking for some kind of a project manager so that Work product documents between the CPA and the town were Like, you know, just I don't know organized in a certain way that helped us expedite Just be more productive. Basically. She's a really good candidate for that So I don't think five thousand dollars will will get you that but um But if we I don't know if things hit A rocky patch or even if they don't she's just she's just a an asset that way Yeah, yeah, this is a great way to Get her Invested in the project a little bit and there may be other ways that she'll help us moving forward. Yeah, she's great So you have support finding it other questions. All right, would you like to move that? Can you authorize me to sign it on behalf and may I borrow your hand on behalf of Yeah, the select board so did you get that rose? Do we have a second? Okay, more discussion all in favor Okay, thank you. I guess I abstain. Oh, right if you abstain Uh Okay Is this a dog way that needs to be on file in the town office? Oh, no, because quite frankly, we don't have hardly any Curtis pond damn stop your piece. No, I think I'm just waiting once. I think marge will send it in or She's out of town. I'll scan so we have an electronic copy and then mail it to her Um, all right Anything else on Curtis pond? One other really quick Curtis pond update Two years ago, I think We contacted Bernie Sanders's office about a federally directed spending request for the dam And it did not make it to the final cut that year but one of Sanders's staffers called me this morning And said do we still want the money? And I said yes and I had to provide the town's address and a few other details And she's running it through the works and will notify us if it makes the final cut So she had an existing application on file Yep, and she just circled she must have just been circling back to ones that didn't get approved the year before How much did you ask did we ask for? One million It might have been 750. I think it was the bulk of the project 750,000. I can't remember What's the timeline on uh, so getting that notice and then yeah, um, it We'll know in the next couple of weeks if it gets selected by Sanders But then it goes into the budget process And as we know, the federal budget process is a nightmare Super special Yeah, so it could be You know, it depends on it's list, right? And then what happens is once it's approved Then some agency in the government is told that this is how you have to spend this much money And so then there's a whole nother process. So mark got a similar Congressional directed it's not called a near mark anymore. So something directed Um, I think 200 000 for the east calla store And it's the type of thing that it might be a couple of years before you actually see the physical money Can it be is to repay the bond principle? She did not know she's going to find that out and get back to me in the next couple of days Maybe it'd be worth checking in with uh, Sandra to see like what the limitations are of how a special account or fund get established because if Been thinking about that a lot with regard to the bond and and the restrictions on early payment But and a lot of the grants want to see that it's directly funded and paid out to a project But if a fund can be established, it's dedicated to the service of the project And we can potentially be generating interest on that relative, you know, but as long as it's in that account being used to Service a bond or expenses. Does that Does that count? Is that good enough? Is that good enough threshold for it? Not to just go into a general fund? um, and offset it in the future, but actually go into A dedicated limited scope fund You know, presumably there'll be a new dam and that will need maintenance. Um, or maybe future property acquisition et cetera, et cetera, et cetera So it would be interesting to get a little bit of feedback from Sandra. Yeah, I can ask you more about that it's I assume it would be similar to the way it is now where it's a she had a word for a pool Where the physical money is in the same pool as all the other physical money but It's separated out of the reserve fund Like a reserve fund. Well like the When we look at the fund balance, you know, we see road crew. We see town office We see Curtis pond all that money is actually in one account Right. It's just separated on paper. So yeah Uh, let's hear about what's going on with our book. Okay. Well, I um met with katie buckley of remote league of cities and towns and Denise wheeler and um, because the the piece that wasn't what denise was the only person who had access So she was the only person who could grant me access So that all worked and um, and the reporting is done for this year And it was really easy once I had access um And I made you and you additional um People on there, but you have to set a set up your login dot gov And um, you don't have to do anything unless like I'm sitting by a box gone for bed. What are you sending us a link to do that? Um, I can do that. Yeah Yeah, the only thing is you won't need to do anything with it unless You get hit by another round. Yeah May I ask a question? So I think I just heard you say that you've done all the reporting for the year Does that mean that april 30th deadline is done? Thank you. Yeah Yeah, that's done and um, one other thing On arpa not take up a lot of time with it tonight, but um, there are two different spread there's at least two different spreadsheets for arpa the most recent one um Where we you know, we returned the uh speed sign We made that transfer so we put back money in so now we have a positive Um balance remaining of 33 000, but they found a different spreadsheet that had um Shoot, this is this is actually a third spreadsheet that I haven't even seen before. Oh no, here we go There was the curse pond handrails and friends of town hall And I don't know if these were ever approved or what but that was on another spreadsheet So like at some point I guess I'll try to figure out arpa's going to tell you I can answer this for you The Curtis pond handrails got approved at town meeting to be part of the community service social service things and and so that's going to come out of the town budget to um Vcil of Vermont Center for Independent Living so that is not It's going to be spot It's going it's going to go And then there was a contract with vcil. That's right. So it's not arpa money at all, correct? No, that's right Okay, so no handrails not arpa at all friends of the college town hall Made an appeal to the select board and it was at that meeting that This select board realized they have overcommitted funds and had to tell friends of the town hall How much did friends of the town hall want 5,000 if they want to spend it on acoustical time They said it was acoustics, but I think they Not down here. Yeah, and we need it down here. We need it down here I think yeah I was there for that meeting and there were a couple of appeals in the same in the same meeting and that was The meeting where there was a realization. So I think they got recorded in the spreadsheet as Requests, but it was uncertain whether or not there was sufficient funds. So they never Came back and actually I think those appeals came from david and lynda sheets Yeah, I was going to walk team making two different appeals and I think they got the message Not going to happen. So I don't think you need to worry about this. Tell me again. What the balance isn't the fund. It was 30 33,000 Can you say that number again 33,127 dollars and 36 cents And then has to be spent when That has to be allocated By the end of 2024 and spent by the end of 2026. Okay, and what I reported today was um Oh, that's right down um, I It was 217,000 something something. Um, it was 200,000 of cv fiber and 2800 or so on um digitization of land records So that's what we have spent so far Yeah, and we and we promised the rest up to all the 33,000. Okay. Yep Yeah, although we yeah, there were So there's something for a future Thanks Let's see. We've got two things left roads update which we better do because we want to get on this cantile scoping grant That needs to be done right away. Doesn't it road commissioners? Yes. Okay Uh, and we want to hear from jordan if he has anything you may There's there's actually there's nothing really to report We have had an update on the spreadsheet. That's actually bringing the cost down because we're going to go with kind of Uh lesser accounts, but uh, we're right now. We're waiting for rb tech to um Uh to schedule the work to be done. Well, I will tell you I got a plea from um, several people in the town office today About please please. Can we have those emails? I've been harassing them? I Uncharacteristically slow response and I think I knew that they had At the time I started inquiring they had multiple other email specific projects going on That were more intense. Um, I've asked whether or not I can assist Okay It's better to leave it in their hands But they're they're aware of it. Okay, so roads I'll put you back on the next agenda, but me well, let's do what we need to do tonight and We'll give you another chance You have a printed copy. I do right here This is it Yes and that is so that the camp hill Uh culvert project is this big culvert here Um, and it's been under review for a long time. It was part of the Getting the town hall renovation out of the flood plain Involved putting a bigger culvert just there. Is it both? The renovation from the waterway engineer was to Take this one out and put it in new one and then take this one out and put it in there So it's a pretty big um anti flooding necessary project related to the town hall and this contract is With central vermont regional planning To do some the scoping No, this one is only for management of the scope. Oh, you're right management of the scoping And then we'll have another one shortly. That's the actual scoping and that one's going to be for about 30,000 of which we have to come up with 10,000 Yeah, and then we have to have one to build actually do the project Yeah Yeah, so this one is for 1,996 That's our share Yes I think they're putting in 2000. That's about this Remember to be told me just looking forward in there, but I don't see it For the dollar figure. Yeah, the agenda says 1,996. No, I'm trying to remember. Yeah, no the the actual work. There's some matching funds. They're going to do 2000 They're putting up $2,000 worth of work We're throwing in this amount and so the whole thing is going to cost 4,000 right to manage so that we can spend more money later Yeah So actually, I think they'll manage that piece of it too. They'll manage the that part Okay questions on that one So the 1996 is for uh management of the scoping process, which is just like defining the project and Finding somebody to do the design work essentially um Yes, and then there's going to be a separate contract for Having the design work performed and And then the actual labor of executing the project So is the design work and the construction work the $30,000 or is it the design work is just $30,000 after The $30,000 right, sorry I think it I think it is about 30. So it's this four of which we paid to for coordinating the scoping work And then the 30 is for all the scoping specking the project And I don't think we know the cost of the actual project then once they've done that we actually have to hire somebody to do the work To do the physical work. I think this this contract that will take us through the whole thing. They'll manage it all the way to the end for the $30,000 work so Once we get them in place they'll um They will manage somebody to actually do there's a whole bunch of stuff. They have to do a biological studies Um all kinds of different studies and that's considered the scoping part and then once they've got that all in place then they will hire so they'll they'll have options Um, I'm not sure whether they come to us with the options or exactly what happens then But then there's the going to be actually doing the work They'll probably make the RFP. Yeah, well that's in here Okay Everybody sit on that Then will you please authorize me to sign this? Um authorizing release of $1,996 to the cvrp For purposes of doing managing the scoping project So rude Okay, here's did you get that rose second we and seconded Further discussion all in favor Hi, hi, I have our new pen. Thank you. You can keep it. Yeah, just just leave it there Okay, road crew do you want to road commissioners you want to report anything else? I'm sorry that you can there's nothing you feel We're Making very slow progress on figuring out what's going on with the radar speed signs And don't really know yet. I have Toby sent me links sent me the contact information for the company and links to other products they sell That would work just as well and cost a lot less Um, but I had other meetings today and we didn't have time to call So I'm going to do more research in the coming days and find out what the possibilities are First swapping the signs out for some That will be cheaper and meet our needs better We are going to have to make sure now learning from the sharers that we can have signs on other signs that those also Are not part of that because I think the word bridge is how we can stick those Things sound out existing and they might have to be That's one of the questions I was going to have Or have for you guys I guess is whether or not you wanted to follow up with the sharers to To ask them specifically about the about the use of them and uh, how to deploy them because some some of them have Speed limits on them, but if they can't if they don't count as speed limit signs, then Yeah, I guess we'll just have to be cognizant. I can reach out to the regional planning the people that do the Strips that measure that because they would probably be a good place to start with Keith Coven I think you've seen his He seems to be the road person at CDRCV. Okay Yeah, yeah, and and it's I've been In one of the last select board meetings before we took over it came out that It was thought that several of our roads were out of compliance on traffic signs. So it's On my list to talk to the word and Do a sign inventory And now that I have these regulations from the sheriff's office I can give very specific Instructions to the crew is when they're out on the roads Let's get a map of what signs we have where how big they are Which ones meet which ones don't? And then develop a plan to come into compliance perfect Do you want to report on anything else? part of this whole conversation about this speed limit signs relates back to the traffic ordinance that was passed at the very end of February Very beginning of March Speed limits. Yeah, so there was an update to the traffic ordinance That changed the speed limits on Quite a few roads in callas Including lowering the county paved part of the county road from 50 to 40 Lowering a tiny piece of lightning railroad From 35 to 25 and more of it from 35 to 30 That the draft ordinance is on that website if people want to look at it but there have been Some process questions and some just loose ends around that ordinance That we'll likely want to revisit um within a 60 day timeframe of when it would go into effect So you're probably 30 days more than 30 days past it already, right? Yeah. Yeah, so it was past February 27th So it's April 27th. Well, you're close to 45 days. Yeah, well Yeah, that's just a seasoning period though for the town to to petition exactly Uh a change or an amendment to it Uh, not necessary. I don't I don't know that we could make a change to anything Without that actually going into effect and then going back through the same warning process, right? That's the question. I'm gonna Try to find out exactly what the process would be for us to revisit that. There's on the Vermont uh League of cities and towns there's there's a really good page on Uh on ordinance Uh procedure That's pretty clear. This one's kind of special though And you want to cover some things that maybe I'd reached out to be trans um There's like a whole Mm-hmm. Jumanji lovely thing and I would Reach out to a guy. I'm gonna speak more with him, but she's talking about the setting speed limits This lovely dog man, but Long story short, you know, there's uh Thank you the minimalist way which is uh individuals within a community that are assigned can go and do various passes on roads at certain speeds and document and Um, but that's not the state prefers it to be at a higher level where there's actual Um traffic studies traffic studies. We're monitoring how many cars are going through What speeds are they going through? What is this speed marked at People follow that do they seem to go slower because the road is actually not safe to drive at the speed that's posted Or are they driving much faster because it's not practical to go as slow as they want you to go so on and so far so It's a pretty long involved um process and I don't know that Previously had been working closely with those folks, I think might have just Had committed to doing it and wanted to get it done before it and then um Took the more minimalist path so We might need to just visit it entirely and I don't know how that works within uh Well, I mean I think Essentially We could just allow it to go through the seasoning process. Um, it goes into effect, but given the degree of best practices that are documented through other organizations That would warrant revisiting The ordinance as updated and we can Warn and modify it. Um as as needed Um, but we wouldn't modify it without just saying let's put let's not do that until we do this Traffic study or whatever and we're not going to pick and choose Which speed limits to change and which not to that's what you mean, right? Actually, there's a state law. I think we're going to have to state law says that there must be a traffic investigation and not precisely sure what that is But we have to have this thing and able to produce it because anybody asks Over the next five years And we don't we don't have anything we don't have anything not even the thing at the bottom of them County road but the store so they is that they use that one Yeah, that does record the data But that's not one of the places we propose to see the law the law is if you change If you change anything on a paved road you have to have Um a traffic investigation On an unpaved road if it's between 35 and 50 miles an hour You can just do it But if you're if it's lower or higher than that and some of them are lower You have to do a traffic investigation So We're not sure Probably somebody needs to call Feetrans or Keith come in and try to I always supposed to talk to you know, what yeah taught what this means Friday And then he said he was going to be available all morning and then whatever This city of towns and leagues is I mean, they're the They are they are but cvrcp actually has a guy devoted to traffic who knows a lot about callous And he reached out and said hey, I'm more than happy to walk you through this best practices I'm specifically thinking I'm sorry. I don't mean you know, I'm just more specifically thinking about like the Nullifying or you know invalidating if the if the previous ordinance was up with update was made Without following these procedures and there are state laws that weren't exactly followed or documented then Then how how bound are we to? Implementing that and that that I think the Vermont League of Cities and towns would be able to Way in on because that's a that's a kind of an extenuating circumstance relative to ordinance procedural I think either of those organizations Yeah Yeah, so I think we need to find this out. We don't know where we are with it Meanwhile, we've discovered that you have to do a lot of every place where the The speed limit changes You have to put up a sign and the signs cost how much jamey? 167 dollars each each and if we can't get them but are those the correct size? I think the chairs that we need I don't know that And we just think we need to do this Who's we the town I know but yeah, so I'm still working on with the trans But I don't think they're the ones that can give us yay or nay as far as Pausing or holding or the side of I think either But those yeah, you know sippy trans can tell us this is exactly the steps y'all need to take this is, you know The most practical way because it's a huge number of roads, which is another reason Speed monitoring things, you know the mobility and can be moved them around to all of these various places Who can assess everywhere that needs to be assessed? Anyway, it's a lot of signs So it's going to be a lot of money. Was there a big um outcry for these changes? Yes Yeah, we certain You know a very vocal segment. Yes. I think because of concerns about speeding and I think the idea is that If you lower the speed limit Then people will behave better, but usually people that aren't going to behave aren't necessarily good I know that there have been people on the paved section of the county road that have been requesting this change for many years And I know that in the last Two weeks I've corresponded with quite a few people about this particular issue and the general Feeling I get from those communications is that They support it. They want the speed limits to go down, but they want it to be done properly and enforceably Yeah, enforceably, I guess it gets kind of anecdotal, but you know, I was on the road this morning and there was somebody driving exceptionally fast, you know, like So fast And And kind of to Ant's point is one thing to change the signage But you have to be able to enforce it and if there's nobody there to enforce it I really don't see how the behavior changes And you know, I think that there's a lot of compelling conversation about how we get data how we how we leverage limited resources to To try to get targeted enforcement and try to actually impact behavior Uh, it's a complicated thing Um, anyway, yeah The data would be Good, you know, I mean coming down through here. What is this speed limit on north palace road right now? I think it's 35 on a on a class 3 road, uh, if it's unposted If it's not otherwise posted, it's uh, it's 35 miles an hour on a faster So I'm like a little over 25 Oh This grade it is so beautiful And then they changed the speed signs on county run on the paper No, they haven't even ordered this. They haven't right. They're holding off It's waiting a waiting instruction from us on what signs to buy well They wanted to wait to make sure the ordinance was going to go through and then we discovered that well, maybe not right way So that'll be on hold for Okay, anything else it's nine o'clock. I'm so sorry you guys we have to have take an action to delegate a committee for the union negotiation We need to establish we actually need to We need to establish the commission Okay, so we just have council the bargaining So so we I sort of put it in the minutes of that the fifth last Wednesday But we so what we need to do is But it's like an official because it's the whole warning and we're like that separate group of Are you saying you need me to put in a warning or are you saying we just need a motion or what we're Was there an appointment? I put it that when we came out of executive session We hired we said we wanted to go with maryland and we appointed jamie and and to Be the liaisons So as part of the Do you want the april fifth minutes? I think it did say that But we could as part of the roads update Amend that if we wanted to yeah, so is that Is this something maryland told you? Is that is there something official? No that I just missed that and Minutes from the on the fifth, okay So let's uh, would somebody move to appoint jordan also as part of our bargaining team So okay to point you I don't know Remember on the bargaining We're appointing jordan council for commission to put this under the roads thing I know we didn't want it. I guess we can ratified if we need to but for now we're appointing jordan to be part of the bargaining team For purposes of collective bargaining with the road crew To the bargaining team with the union The way maryland explained it to us is all five of us are part of the bargainers But the team is the one that has to be in all the meetings So that means you're gonna if there's gonna be three there's many says three of you, right? Yeah So everything will have to be more it doesn't matter actually that was the clarification that we that was the clarification that we got today was that the It wouldn't matter if it were two of us or two of us because because it's an official delegation It's a it's a special commission Um, it becomes it's I thought maybe you were saying it should have been born today This wasn't because you thought there were two select board members and there ended up being three Well, it was yeah a little of all of it So it was a misinterpretation Yeah, it was it was a miscommunication all the way around but the clarification also clarified that it doesn't matter if it's one two or three As soon as there's a committee that's established for that purpose That it becomes a part portion of the body that needs to be worn. All right. We have a motion on the table Let's make sure we got the motion Gabrielle moved that Jordan be added to the bargaining team That will bargain with the road crew union Okay, do we have a second second and and seconded Is there discussion? I'm sorry. I can't talk in the business. That's a fact in second way Okay, all in favor Okay So in that um line, do you want me to write the other two members of this bargaining team? Well, they were in the last minutes. Oh, so we're just adding them to that team. Okay Those I just wrote those minutes. We just know I didn't see that's why they're They're posted on the website So you can you can get the wording from that though for the april fifth executive session You could follow the wording from that because she wrote it Guys Barbara you have something to say before we adjourn. That's okay. It can wait. Are you sure? Yeah, okay. I'll bless your heart Okay, all right, so um I do I want to see the two the two road commissioners just for like a quick two minutes. Okay, okay Do we have to vote to adjourn? I think I haven't been doing it that way. Can we can I just declare us an adjournment? I have a motion to adjourn Okay, no, I declare us adjourned