 consistent with the attitude of American people and their general reactions to go in, as they could understand that. But if we're getting out even after we go in and get down in there with the war with China, it's going to be a hell of a mess. It'd be worse than we are now. To some extent, that's what makes it so difficult. And don't forget that old Ben Milam is the only man got killed. And it doesn't go with old Ben. He's a great hero, but he got killed. That's right. And the old man was killed. So if they start off with Ben Milam, which they ain't going to do to any degree, they'll get out and Ben be killed. It's just a hell of a come on. I don't know. I don't know how much pressure. They won't cause us all trouble again, but there's any truth in there. The theory that they are really at odds with China really is a cleavage there. They are, but they go with them as soon as five stars. They wouldn't forsake that China. I wouldn't tell them I'd fight in there, but we might get them to take an active part in getting the things straightened out. We're doing all we can on that, but she doesn't show any signs of contributing. They'd be fully students, for one extent, because we just continue to pull the money in there and get nothing back out of it. We don't even get goodwill back out of that. I just don't know. I don't know where to go for advice. I just don't know where to go for advice. McNamara is the smartest fellow we ever know, but he's got so damn much. He has opinionated as hell, and he's made up his mind on this, and I don't think it's any of mine. I'll tell you what he's done, Dick. I think he's a pretty flexible fellow. He's gone out there, and he's got con to agree that we cannot launch a counter-offensive or hit in the north until he gets more stabilized and better said in the south. And he thought he's buying us time, and we could get by until November. What these politicians got to raise in hell, and Scripps Howard writing these stories, all the senators and Nixon and Rockefeller and Goldwater all saying, let's move, let's go in the north. That is a devastating piece that Lucas had on the state. That's right, but don't cover much of the country. But if that got out everywhere, it would have raised a lot of hell. That's right, and they can always get an isolated example of bad things. McNamara says that that's not generally true, that too many damn people are being killed every day. And that they're flying the sorties, and they're getting some results, and they're killing thousands of their people, but we're losing more. I mean, we're losing ground. And he was hoping that we could avoid moving into the north and thereby provoking the Chinese for a few months. You know what I do, we've tried that. From infiltration, guerrilla war standpoint. With this after yourselves. Lodge, Nixon, Rockefeller, Goldwater all saying, move. Eisenhower. You mean the man bombing the old man? No, no. They say pick out an old plan to pick out a refinery or something like that. Take selected targets, watch these trails that are coming down, and try to bomb them out of them when they're coming in. You can't do that. That's just impossible. McNamara said yesterday in Korea that LeMay and all of them was going to stop all those tanks as nighting came through, and they turned all the air force loose on them, and they got one. 89 came on through. We tried it in Korea. We even got out a lot of OB-29s to increase the bomb load and sent over there and just dropped millions and millions of pounds of bombs day and night. And in the morning we'd knock out the road at night, and in the morning the damn people would be back driving over. That's true on that railroad over there on the north coast. They had used a navy and these 14-inch rifles and knocked the old mountain down on it, shelled it, and knocked all these old mountain down and covered up the railroad tracks. Everybody said, I got it. We've got them now, and the next morning their trains were running like a devil right over that track, and we just shot up several million dollars worth of shells to think that we'd close it. We didn't do it. We never could actually interdict all that line of communication in Korea, though we had absolute control of the seas and the air, and we never did stop them. And you're not going to stop these people either. Well, it impeached President Thoreau who'd run out, wouldn't it? I just don't believe, outside of Morse everybody I talked to says you got to go in, including Hickenlooper, including all the Republicans. I disagreed with him yesterday when he made the statement that we had to stand. And I don't know how in the hell you're going to get out unless they tell you to get out. If we had a man running the government over that door, we'd get out because you ever... Oh, yeah, that's right, but you're going to do that. And I don't know if we'd get some right if I came up with that fellow's name or something. Sort of a Maverick fellow that's got a big following down in there below Saigon, and our people all hate him because he's always against the government. And he's not fighting them at all, but he's a very powerful man in Vietnam. And now everybody takes over the government. He gives him his excuse for their repressions and suppressions. And if he were to get it and say, now you damn... you ain't going to get out of here. I'm running this government now. Wouldn't that pretty well fix us in the eyes of the world and make it look mighty bad? I don't know. We don't look too good right now. And, of course, you look pretty good, I guess, going in there with all the troops and sending them all in there. But I'll tell you, it'll be the most expensive thing to this country I went into. I've got a little old sergeant over at work from me over at the house, and he's got six children. And I just put him up as the United States Army and Air Force and Navy every time I think about making this decision and think about sending that father of those six kids in there and what the hell are we going to get out of here's done it. And it just makes the children up my back. It does me. I just haven't got the nerve to do it and I don't see any other way out of it. You don't have much sense to it. I just can't wait to get it. These things go ahead until you lose. Well, thank you very much, and I'll talk to you again. I hate to bother you, but I just... I can help you. God knows I do, because it's a terrific country that we are in over there. Just in the quicksand's up there next. I just don't know what the best way to do it. I love you, and I'll be calling you. I'll see you soon.