 Today, I have a special guest, Dr. Laura Slayer. Celia, right? Celia, sorry, I said you got it. You got it. And she, it was, I'll just give you a little bio on her. She's IFMCP certified just like I am. And we actually met through a training with Flow. So we're going to talk about Flow today. If you don't know what that is, stay tuned. It's really fun. It's exciting. It'll make your life so much more amazing, really. You can tap into all those creative pursuits and things that you've always wanted to do and do it with much more ease as well. But Laura will enlighten us with that. She was shocked to discover herself struggling with burnout 15 years ago in her career as a rural family medicine physician to alleviate this heartbreak of feeling trapped in a lackluster career. She started painting, drawing, and running all flow state inducers, right? The regular dose of neurochemical flow states resulted in improved well-being and decreased stress. So just like most of us, you kind of learn through your own journey, which we're going to talk about. She began studying the effects of stress cortisol on her physiology, accumulating in her decision to certify with the IFM. And she resigned from her employee position and opened a holistic membership practice where she leverages technology to build a cohesive tribe of wellness in her local community through innovative group medical visits, online health education, and traditional individual services. She's continued in the Flow Research Collective Certification Program, which is where we met. We kind of found each other. We're like, IFM, yes, medicine. She speaks across the globe on her mission. And I just love the content you're creating, the stuff. And we talked right before we get on here just around the right brain and around creativity. Because again, most of us as physicians are pretty analytical. So finding this other side, right? So let's just get in without further ado. And tell me your story. Clearly, as I introduced you, I have a little glimpse of your story. But how did you get into medicine? And then tell us a little bit about what happened. Oh, thank you so much, Dr. Jill. First, I feel like we almost need to start with I-L-L-I-N-I. Yeah. Right? I mean, this is where it all begins is the University of Illinois. I believe you and I share that alumni status. So I would say getting into medicine is just like any bright-eyed, bushy-tailed pre-med where you want to save the world and help patients. And it's fascinating who doesn't love learning about the body. But fast forward into how technology has advanced, how our health care system has advanced, not to our benefit or our patients. And suddenly, there I was barely 41 and I was burned out. I loved the idea of being a rural family doctor. I loved taking care of babies and grandmas and sewing up lacerations and putting casts on. And being in a rural practice was good in theory. But what I did not recognize until it was almost too late is I was burning out. And in a last-ditch effort to burn up my CME, I thought, you know, I'm going to resign. I already made that decision. I was going to resign from my employed position. I didn't yet know how I was going to use my skills. So I had worked with a physician life coach and I had looked at alternative ways to use my skills. And I thought, one more CME, let's see. And I went to IFM, AFMCP, which is their five-day flagship buffet course. And I thought, you know, yoga, organic food sounds like a fun time. Little did I know it made me fall right back in love with medicine. And I realized it wasn't medicine that was burning me out. It's just the way it was being practiced. And so that lit a fire under me. And even before then, as I started running or drawing or doing things to try and alleviate this feeling, what I was doing to myself is getting myself into flow and realizing that that was really helping bolster this burned-out feeling. And once you align your values and there's congruence, as you know, you have a purpose and a mission. Nobody can stop you. So this is where I am today and basically mentoring professionals across the world, helping them do their own catalyst, you know, medical practice where they can have their own creativity and work-life masterpiece. So I'm loving it. I love it too. And you can totally feel whether it's your post or your today live or anywhere, you feel the joy. And you feel that kind of a spark that we all, like you said, we had it going into medicine. We were, you know, most of it was passion for healing and for changing the world and for helping patients. And it's so true, our conventional system. I, you know, as I've written my book recently, I've write about the medical school experience, right? It like almost trains out the empathy and it trains out the creativity. So you're in this like straight, you know, and very masculine, which is great energy to be driven. But we need both. And the more feminine, creative, right, to come back. So as those women, at least for me, I used to wear like the black pants suits just and I'm like, what was, like, yes, it's almost like we need like different parts of our personality. And then, you know, if you ascribe to the family systems and parts, we do need to embrace all our parts. But I feel like a lot of us are given this promise that it'll get better. And so we put these parts on the back burner. I mean, I put my creativity on the back burner and as did you and many of us thinking that eventually this will all work itself out. And it's just not looking very well for us. So we have to reclaim it and empower and actually stand firm in holding tight to your creativity and nurturing it and flow because that's really what can help you alleviate burnout and prevent it. So true. And I love that you kind of organically found and then obviously the flow initiatives is so powerful, that training. How did you end up finding that piece? So you first tell us from the kind of burnout to how you kind of fell into that. So I love this story because it's just, I feel like anybody can feel it. And when you're burned out, sometimes you don't know the label. I actually was very skeptical. I thought that's crazy. I'm not burned out, but you know it rather than labeling it. And I remember the time my nurse walked in, it was every other typical day in family practice she put down on the corner of my desk an obituary of a patient that I had, an elderly woman. It's not surprising she passed. You have 1900 patients and you're going to have some that pass and she had lived a long life. And I remember like reflecting, she was a really sweet lady, I had cancer for five years, a great support system, family was there. So it was more of a relief that she would be gone. Normally that would trigger me to open my desk drawer and pen a little short card saying I was an honor taking care of your grandmother. I loved seeing the pictures for dogs or her knitting or whatever that was. But instead that day, I felt immense celebration and jubilation that there was one less person in this world that I had to worry about. I mean, talk about shameful, right? But talk about obvious as well that is the epitome of caregiver burden where you feel like you're just taking care of so many things. So that caused me to pause because that is not the kind of doctor I ever wanted to be. And that really made me be more introspective. And so I started doing more things, drawing and I'm not a trained artist but I grew up in a very creative family. I can play clarinet and I started running more and doing more things to try and figure myself out. And as you know, when you put your brain on kind of autopilot, oh, magic happens. You start getting connections and epiphanies and the great aha moment of flow and it led me down that path of, well, maybe there's other solutions, which... Maybe I can actually heal people and help people but in a way that's different. And I so relate to this because I was again, both of us kind of this conventional and unfortunately the conventional system is very masculine, very driven, very analytical which are all good things, we need both parts but it was this refinding, for me it happened after I moved out to Colorado, I kind of started my own practice I was still pretty much in that thing but at the same thing I realized, oh my gosh there's this creativity that needs to blossom and I started writing and I started coloring. Like coloring was a transition for me, like coloring books. I'm not the artist you are but I like still to this day when I need to get into a flow state I'll bring all my coloring books and I'll go to the coffee shop or I literally, this is a funny story I'm gonna tell you, I don't think I've told anyone publicly do it. First thing is in my car all the time is a big bag of beautiful markers and pencils and coloring books. So anytime, anywhere if someone with therapy or a friendship I bring all my coloring books and I said, let's color and you know it's funny I kind of give you this look but every time the kinds of conversations we have they open up, it just opens up this place because you're so real, you come back to that childlike state so it's been magical with my friends and my conversations and now I'm like, do you have your coloring books can we color? I love that! Funny thing Lori, so a couple years ago in my garage was just secure someone got in and actually broke into my car and nothing was stolen except my old sunglasses which were only precious to me, they had no value and I had a bag in the back that was coloring books and they stole my coloring books and I had to laugh so hard because every one of them was like inspirational and some were versus some were like just inspirational quotes but I thought, oh that thief must have needed my coloring books. Maybe that was something they needed. So I just laughed, I was like, well good that's good that they got that and they probably thought it was something really valuable and then hopefully it made their day and they went. Right, I mean there is something primitive though and really cool about holding colors and in all the workshops I do with residencies or hospitals, I'll bet, I always laugh because there's always one person that's like they don't want to play my reindeer game they're like, I don't want to color this is stupid I'm not an artist why am I even doing this, why? And that person is the one that's like where's that purple marker? Where's that crayon? Because we can't help but color and how lovely that you do this and share this with your friends that they're witnessing this in that parallel play that we're used to when we're little it's just great. Yeah, and like you said it brings ideas and creativity and then so let's talk about for those that first of all as you're listening we could talk all day Laura and I can have this fun conversation but what I think might relate if you're listening out there is during the pandemic people have been stirred up like what am I doing? Do I love this? Do I hate this? Do I hate the burnout? The overwhelm? If you're stuck in a house maybe with some whatever kinds of things that are different that have changed and now we're coming back out of course but there's a lot I think that shifted for a lot of people. So if you're listening I bet many of you can relate feel free to share in the chat of maybe the shifts or transitions you saw because I think a lot of people are reevaluating what is work life? What's home life? What's balance? What's flow? So I wanted to state that because I think people are probably hearing us and maybe giving thoughts for themselves either their own experiences or the change that we all like deep down I was like, oh, there's something more, right? And that's what you both had this like, oh, this shift and I went from a conventional hospital as medical director and crazy hours to starting my own practice and very similarly I tried to create a place that was like sustainable and that I love going into and you too. So let's talk about flow that like flow is how we get out of the stuckness, right? Yes, oh my goodness, you and I are both like drinking from the same water. Okay, so let's start and dial it back to burnout because it starts with burnout, right? And so all of us are touched by burnout does not matter if you love your career you'll have burnout sometime in your life whether you're burned out being a partner or a parent or you're burned out in school. I mean, we all experience burnout which is depersonalization loss of personal achievement you feel like nothing's happening and you feel really jaded, right? And you feel emotionally exhausted. So when you recognize that I have flirted with burnout a bit then you learn that burnout appears under functional MRI the same exact brain pattern as grief. So if you think about our society and how we've made space for grief we have tools for grief we have support groups for grief we allow grief to be part of our human nature that we're going to process grief and we're going to learn from grief. And yet burnout we tend to look down upon people saying well, why are you burned out? Just stop it. There's a judgment there, right? Yes. You take it free of that because even ourselves I'll tell you if I would say, oh, I'm burned out I'd be like, oh, come on Jill, get over it, right? Same, same. And it's a conversation just to have and to allow that awareness of burnout to come in and out of your life even now, even though I love what I'm doing I can feel those triggers where I'm going okay, I sense this it's a familiar feeling I know what I can do now to avoid and this is where flow is like medicinal to the brain so just as grief and burnout appear the same in our brain under functional MRI flow state is the time when your brain produces all five neurochemicals of happiness and it feels euphoric it can feel really action oriented and so there's a wonderful energy that comes with flow when you learn how to harness that power and create that cadence and I hate the term work-life balance I prefer to say work-life masterpiece because I feel that there's never balance but you can learn to play with those energies to make whatever you're putting on your canvas even more textured and nuanced and something that only you can do. Yeah, I love that. So you introduced flow, flow is a state where we have all five neurochemicals I'll tell you a little bit about first of all what is the neurochemistry of flow and then what are some practical ways we've talked about coloring and art therapy and running and but let's kind of go the gamma because I always think it's interesting because athletes can be in flow but then I'm like I'm not a surfer I don't know how to surf, I'd love to but so what else might someone else do? So first of all neurochemicals and then what can people do? Right, well first there's the state of flow is a great synthesis of challenges something that is challenging but you have just enough skills so it's not too easy or else it'd be boring but it's also not too hard where you feel overwhelmed so this is the common myth people think flow should just inherently drop right in and be easy like Ernest Hemingway writing a novel but what he understood is he would write and leave half a sentence unwritten so that the next day then he could pick that up and go forward and flow needs a little bit of struggle it needs just a tiny bit where there's a challenge after that challenge you move into this release this active nitric oxide, this epiphany where you feel this aha moment and much like Archimedes was running down the street when he knew the volume of water and could understand this aha this happens in autopilot so it's like when you're in a experience where you can let your brain relax a bit like in the shower that's why 72% of us have creative ideas Right, because you're on autopilot but you're getting this experience of just tactile sensation of the water you're staring at the wall maybe you're reading in the label of your shampoo bottle but that's when your brain then that alpha brainwave comes forward and gives you these things they've noticed oh yes remember it's your grandmother's birthday and you saw that ad for flowers you need to order her a bouquet and then after this release of this aha you go into this deep flow which is a combination serotonin, oxytocin you know you've got anatomide and dorfins and this can be anywhere from a quick five minutes all the way to several hours on average just between 90 and 120 minutes but when you learn how your own flow triggers can be placed in your day like a quick walk outside or maybe you color at your desk you start to learn how to plant those flow triggers it really eases your whole day into something that's more enjoyable I love that and I love that you're just making it so practical because like I said when you first read about flow a lot of like Stephen Kotler is one of the leaders who's taught both of us in some of his books Rise of Superman, Art of Impossible again great want to read more highly recommend those but a lot of those are about these athletes that are like super human literally they do these waves and I'm like wow that's amazing but right but like you said okay look at this is here I didn't plant this here's my colors and it's right beside me here because I sometimes will pick up my notebook and just start to doodle probably you too yes I was gonna say I've got a little bit of like music flow here yeah music when I phone for me especially as I'm writing more that was one of the things like okay how do I get into that state so what I was gonna say if you're not an athlete just walking movement can work anything that's a little challenging so like I love to jump on my motorcycle or see something new take a new route to work like take it taking some it's kind of novelty yes novelty yeah so novelty and then and then creativity so whether it's writing or coloring or doing clay or any sort of creative process can use that music music whether it's listening and certain types of things are flow triggers and they're often a little bit melodic and hypnotic they often have repeatable things they often don't have lyrics so that your mind can kind of just go think on its own and have and you can literally look on any sort of Pandora spotify whatever and look for flow kinds of music or flow list and I think the flow initiatives even has their own playlist right right you can do it and of course any musician if you've ever watched a jazz musician improvise right like you can see them they just go into the state and how you know you're in flow and again correct me if I'm saying anything wrong is that like timeless like all of a sudden time is just gone an hour yes right yes and you're sort of driven by this internal energy and joy and unimonia this like flourishing and I think this is what my goal is for doctors is not to put creativity and flow behind this this like mirror or this glass you have to have a week in a cabin in the woods to write your novel or you have to like be a good surfer like you said or or have these big Olympic moments but it's daily accessible little things to just get out of your own way and be curious and open-minded like the triggers of feeling good dopamine and novelty so a playlist that will get you in a good mood or maybe a YouTube list of your funniest comedic little clips from a favorite show getting outside and experiencing nature is very flow forward and it's just allowing that thinking of creativity and flow as meaningful and worthy of daily appreciation so that's why I like to say it's like a sixth vital sign you know it's really something that we should be asking our patients what do you do to give yourself joy when's the last time you played with a hobby are you curious about trying something and not to be good at it but just to have fun yeah oh I love some of those things you're saying is so important because I come from like a highly productive work-oriented family background right so it was like for me to sit down and just write in a journal or take a walk it wasn't productive and so yes for my transition I felt like a lot of that was put aside because it's like oh I can't be unproductive I can't just yeah hello America this is like all our hustle mentality and we've realized now the jig is up you know right we're seeing that this doesn't get you anywhere but early heart attacks and high cortisol on stage three HPA access and balance you know so I'm telling people just dump things in a journal I love Julia Cameron's book The Artist's Way and don't let the title scare you you don't have to be an artist what she's doing is helping you unblock your inner child and just play and so every morning I do morning pages where I write three pages of this junk whatever's in my brain and it's almost like detoxification so you can start your day fresh and I think it's just this appreciation that most of us don't realize that it's the unhustle that's going to help us be anti-burnout yeah uh love love love and I love Julia and I love her work because it really is so and then she talks about artist dates right and this is like yes self like to the zoo or to the museum or like on a special hike and it's no dogs no spouses no I mean not that you couldn't do that too but oh come on dogs are allowed everywhere I know right I'm like lights down here beside me but don't really get it yeah but I was like oh I love that and just for the fun of it not for it's almost like again for especially for me I had to really come out of that work productivity oh yeah I think all of us have that right especially as women in a usual male-centric world you have to prove yourself you know the minute you're in that world whether you are married single kids no kids you're still you know socialized as a woman so you kind of have to feel like you have to prove yourself and how dare us take time for ourselves how dare us take ourselves on a date and just nurture whatever we want to do for fun and and it's really kind of liberating and it's addicting so I'll tell you like when people start doing artist dates lighting a candle painting drawing whatever it's really fun and you see the benefit on the flip side love it and it's almost like like falling in love with play you could say it that way right like that yes so you so you mentioned motorcycle and I know you ski as well don't you yeah oh I loved it yeah so I do kind of do these dopamine driven I ride my motorcycle and I love that and literally it's so funny it's quite an expensive hobby for just getting into flow but that's literally I don't go on road trips I don't go over weekends I just get on for an hour and go drive on a mountain road or I go to the coffee shop and but it induces flow so consistently that it's literally my flow machine my I have a question I love this because see have you gone through and like gone and analyzed your recipe of flow for example having your motorcycle ride you mentioned a mountain road and when I would run I used to realize and notice that I didn't get into flow unless I was running on a trail because I wasn't having to make decisions like how to cross the street or where the traffic is so do you find like some motorcycle rides are more flow centric than others? Oh I love this because you're totally right on and the other things I'll say skiing and rock climbing which I haven't done a lot but when I have it's like you know why and so suck what you said I have to on the motorcycle on the rock climbing and when I'm skiing with my helmet and my music I have to be completely present there's no scatter there's no squirrel there's no like I am completely in the present moment and I'm such a person who thinks forward past everything and I'm analyzing it literally takes my brain and shuts it down to be present and that's what puts me in the flow and so it's but I'm forced to in a way because the motorcycle is dangerous if I'm not concentrating right right rock climbing if I'm so all these things I think there's enough danger there which is part of the like challenge yes that's the dopamine you're getting that dopamine that's getting you into that flow and it's also why we procrastinate I know Stephen Kotler's talked about that where we procrastinate because it's kind of raising that risk and that's a good dopamine to get us into flow so I love that you've kind of hacked your own recipe when I love that you talk about that because that's my classic thing of I said I mean I can do things ahead of time but most of the time I wait because that pressure gives me the motivation right to do it and they're like oh come on Jill why didn't you do this last week but then I actually do way better if I'm under a little bit of pressure so it's right right and it's it's fun to see how we tend to go towards what we're feeling comfortable with like for example you obviously athletic skiing you know I can't I cannot even imagine myself doing anything rock climbing I'll stay on the ground I'm much more comfortable with paint and music but you know pushing each other to do things like you picked up the colors you put your writing and likewise you know I last summer started jump roping and trying to do fancy footwork and it's fun to challenge your brain because that is great for cognitive decline you know we need to really continue that neuroplasticity and lots of bilateral movement and having to learn new patterns of how your body does things so it's just going to be the future I believe to help us all stay healthy you know what's interesting we're talking about ourselves as you know physicians or women or men listening or whatever but let's transition into the patient who has illness and this is relevant to them to maybe more than anything and I want to set you up because I want you to tell us about it but I just want to share I recently I'm actually in the middle of a book called cured Jeffrey Ridinger Harvard psychiatrist who talks about spontaneous healing and you know what I find in this there's clearly some you know faith stuff there's some food diet stuff all the functional myths and principles are there but probably the biggest thing that I keep seeing as a theme is refinding a purpose which is so clearly like relevant to this like you with burnout or me with like transitioning into coloring it's almost like that finding that deeper joy and purpose in what we're doing that's one of his core things to spontaneous healing so let's take this oh my god how will she take flow and implement it in your visits with patients because I think it is all about healing like this might be the core thing about healing oh absolutely as humans but also especially those with chronic disease and that label is a big umbrella label but sadly Americans are getting more chronic disease as thankfully we are are lucky to have you to teach us you know all about lime and mycotoxin and and when this is part of your life as somebody with chronic disease you can feel very disempowered so when you start to play with flow or creativity you almost feel like you're just being an imposter like it doesn't feel real you don't you feel lost and this is the thing is we're disconnected right and healing this is my experience as running a functional medicine clinic the number one way I find people healing is when they do connect to that limbic system retraining and rebalancing and creativity and flow is part of that when they start to dive in and learn about ways they're getting into their own self sabotage behaviors but then also revisiting their values and going well wait maybe my values have shifted maybe I'll I'll try something new over here and they learn to find their own joy there's power in that but it's also bravery because as you know when when you're suffering from a chronic disease when in our system of healthcare has taught you that there is a fixer there's a pill there's something that they're missing if you just find that person or that pill or that procedure you'll be better and it can feel very scary to go well maybe you have that in you to heal yourself it can feel scary to say oh well what about all those years I didn't heal myself but yeah if we look beyond the grief and go look at the power you have that you can reconnect and you know get that vagal toning going get all those parasympathetics humming and you have new purpose and vision and suddenly your body is less inflamed and how funny that is I love that and I love that you're bringing it in and both of us realizing how critical it is to healing and sharing it with patients because it's like both of us went on this journey of self discovery and found a new way and a flow and a creativity that brings joy and happiness but really it's only like that's going to help our health and then we can take that to the patient and as well and I love that that it can't be a little scary because it is easy to source outsource outsource our health right to the interest or to the position or to whatever else when we have to start to own it which is a little bit like oh my gosh it's my responsibility really but it's right powering it is it is and I feel like as as I've shifted I've had to relearn my identity you know as you go from a conventional family practice position which I love my conventional colleagues my husband is family practice and there is no shade cast upon that I mean we serve a purpose there so I had to re-identify how I work with patients in my new role and I view it more like a partnership like a co-working partnership and and helping them understand that you know they have to partner with me so we can learn about their body and it is difficult to be told for a long time there's no answers and to then be given situations where wait maybe if I try to reframe or think and I never promise cure I never promise remission what I promise is clarity and understanding and just a new perspective so as patients come in I have them draw what would they look like in a year what would they be doing in a year if they were free of some of the things that they're coming to see me for and it's sort of a positive visualization exercise it's also planting that seed of possibility and it gets us that starting point of okay how can we help you find that I love that and instead of just like for me I might ask but you literally give them a pencil and paper and ask them to draw they actually get it ahead of time they get this little video ahead of time saying here you go and today I had a patient come in and she it's so cool you can you can see a lot about their perspective you know the colors they choose the the and she literally said the word flow she goes all these lines I don't know I'm not an artist but this is really flowy and I really want to find flow again I'm like you're in the right place because you know I think all of us need it oh my gosh I love it and something else you mentioned that I think is so key and it sounds like both of us have found that is not all women but at least for me as woman in the culture I grew up in there was a lot of like take care of everybody else's needs and and not your own and I had to rediscover when I first started kind of shifting and healing my own self in these ways I had to really say what do I need and I didn't know I was class right like I didn't oh because that muscle is atrophied you know we don't know right and and also just as as realizing our place in this ecosphere of the global community all our differences our privileges that we may not recognize all the things that make us who we are when you start to look at wait a second I could take care of myself it feels selfish it feels like you're being selfish and in reality that's the best thing you can do is if you take care of yourself you'll be a better partner and a better clinician and a better patient and a better citizen of the world so it's really accomplishing both goals but we're so used to being told that we need to see and help everyone else first yeah oh either or right like it can be both and and it doesn't have to be either or yeah I remember with a very beginning like someone I was working with said Jill you know you just need to think about what do I need at this moment it might be I need to sip of water and then you just follow through by sip of water and you actually reinforce those neural networks so same thing is what do I need right now oh I'm maybe a little bit of place you pull your colors out and you do some so this if you're listening and you're not sure sure I started or you're a little confused you might just starting by checking in and often if we've lived above our neck and we're all here and we've shut that down so like I don't know what I need right but yeah so you're talking about interoception right like interoception is how we feel we've totally lost that connection I love that you bring up the idea of taking a sip of water it's very similar to what artists do when they ask well what does this painting need next and we need to ask ourselves are you thirsty are you are you hungry like what do you need that's beautiful exactly and it can be so simple like what I learned is I got I would get stuck because I'm like I don't know what I need but it could be so simple like okay right now I just need to shift in my chair and like so simple and then you do it and what that does is start to feedback oh I can have a need and fulfill it and it's not hard and it's not difficult and so it can be very so I need to just move my phone I need to but you know so simple things that you can do and that you can check in with and then you follow through and your brain starts to rewire that you can take care of those needs and you can be creative and totally totally I'm so excited because you're touching on a lecture I saw at the healthcare burnout symposium last January that was a dismal conference oh no I mean it's like three days of burnout me and you not like yeah but it had all the great researchers Shanna felt and Mazlok and all of that was worth it but but they talked about how when we train ourselves to be more self efficacious and that's exactly what you're talking about is identifying a need then giving yourself that need it provides that reinforcement loop that you can take care of yourself and it gives a sense of control over your environment even if you can't switch jobs or you and that's the biggest thing I hear is patients or colleagues that I'm mentoring say well I'm in an undesirable situation I can't change everything overnight but these small things that you can control the sip of water the little coloring the shifting in the chair that gives you that feedback loop and it builds on itself and you start to become more self efficacious and less burned out love it because I'm assuming what you're describing is that helplessness right and when we feel helpless like we have no control that definitely is a contributor to stress and burnout because it's like oh my gosh we have no agency right yes no autonomy no agency and there's always some little choice you can make and it's just yeah absolutely you're hitting it right on the head love it well and I'm thinking about flow triggers purpose passion and then the third one's alluding me do you remember the purpose passion oh there's lots I think there's an autonomy mastery at the bottom when it's thinking about yes and it's like so purpose and passion we'll just talk about those because that's the purpose being passionate about something that you do or even it can be played too and I love the autonomy mastery piece because that was that was not hot for me of why like I did my own practice and I first of all I've for 20 years I want to master functional medicine I don't know if you know this Laura but about just 12 years ago when I first started this you know consulting practice I was like what do I want to do what do I want to be and I thought I want to be an expert in functional medicine so I got a trademark on Dr. Jill your functional medicine expert like I'm patented registered trademark but was so funny at the time I did that 12 years ago I didn't feel like the expert but I actually had this goal I put it out there and I put it on paper and I became it like I was able to become that but it was first calling myself what I wanted to become and then I sent it out there to the universe and on public you know like on the website and then I I literally became it but it was first like that and so that's that mastery and that mastery has given me the sense of control and ability to you know know that I can master other things and then autonomy is ability to set your own hours set your own schedule not everyone has that but there's always ways like we talked about getting a sip of water or taking a break where if you can pull some autonomy into your work life for your home life that really does give you more satisfaction oh my goodness yes and and I love that you share that story because you're sharing this you know manifestation that you put it out there and so many practitioners that I mentor are are just wanting to have it all figured out before they take that step you don't you don't you literally actually neuroscience research supports that the more positive visualization predicts more positive outcomes you have to you have to play in the manifestation space and it can feel kind of woo woo to a lot of us like driven doctors you know and so it's just inviting people to say what if maybe spend time every morning being that functional medicine expert and I love how you went the step further and said I am going to totally patent that it's registered trademark which is yeah the company's like that imposter syndrome because in the beginning now I own it I do believe I'm an expert one of many but I am one of many and and so I own it but at the time I did not I was like what am I doing I'm not the expert yet I know imposter syndrome is real I think we all fight it back every day and and I love that you just embrace that okay I'm gonna make this happen you know I'm gonna go and move forward towards this and that is the epitome of how all of us should you know lead a rich and meaningful life is is making it what we want and even if we don't have all the Lego building blocks yet just start stacking them and you got you got the vision of what you want and and move towards that every day so how do you encourage say a patients in front of you and they're like you know Dr. Laura I am just struggling I'm burned out or I'm like what kind of first steps do you give them whether it's with their health or their career or their family because I'm sure you draw people in that need that kind of resource you have how do you have them start do you give them health tips yes oh I love it in fact it's it's sort of like I wish I could talk to them for a whole day because I do workshops for residents on this and there's such a combining of worlds but in functional medicine when it's a patient of mine I dip into that that flow research side where I say okay the first thing is let's try and find some autonomy and that's exactly we talked about earlier that is the biggest domino that I can help you know topple which will end up in a good result so I have them start time blocking you know you're familiar with Cal Newport's deep work you know and I talk about really being honest with ourselves like I love scrolling TikTok I love social media and being honest of starting our day mindfully and and creating a little ritual and and a cadence and really being cognizant because time is our only currency we have and once it's gone it's gone so when we start to time block and I use that phrase if and if you're not familiar and you're listening it's it's basically tagging parts of your day that you're going to do things all the way down to I'm going to answer that email or I'm going to call and pick up my dry cleaning and if it doesn't happen you move it around and you start to learn your own little ways that you self sabotage or things that may not be as important start to bubble up to the top and you get more of a sense of autonomy so that is where I start with any of my patients that are burned out is time blocking oh that's brilliant brilliant brilliant and then it sounds like encouraging them to play or color or do something kind of oh absolutely yes very cool fantastic so what about you know a patient may be struggling just with a physical ailment where they're like struggling you know like the chronic fatigue so common and put long COVID we're seeing more cases than so maybe out there listening you've got Lyme or Mold illness or some of these things that are really serious and you're trying to get out of bed what would how would we start with flow with someone who's really struggling just to get through the day how could we advise them well I would start with trying to recall a time when you did feel flow in the past so even if it's an activity you can't do now then I would I would use creative skills and have you draw that activity on a paper I would have you start to journal with that activity and ask well what did it feel like write down those adjectives make it a creative exercise where you're really diving into what that feels like because our brain is one of these amazing machines that even if you can't be doing that activity physically right now if you think about it it's like you're doing it it lights up that's why you see these three-pointer basketball coaches teaching their team to like imagine syncing that three-pointer imagine going down that hill imagine the big tidal wave that you're surfing and so if you're stuck and you're feeling kind of downtrodden and you used to be a virtuoso violinist draw it out or write about it create adjectives remind yourself what that felt like because then your body wakes up and you start to then become a predictive machine your brain starts to look for more ways you can experience just a little wisp of that flow and it starts to become inviting into your life oh brilliant love love love that because it's so practical soon as not everybody is you know like we talk about athletic even me I'm not really that athletic but oh goodness this is so inspiring such a great conversation and it's so fun just to talk to you because you're clearly your energy is just it's bright and beautiful and I love our colored hair yes I mean we have to get another selfie soon next time I see you at a conference I mean we have to do a little a little line ILL I and I cheer you know yes and it's usually yeah you're usually in that realm of blues and greens and I'm in the pink and purple so it kind of is a nice color wheel good good balance good balance love it Laura what a great conversation love this where can people find out more about you where can people get more information tell us where to find you awesome well thank you Dr. Jill I love any opportunity to chat with you people can color outside the lines with me and they can find me on my website Dr. Lara Salier.com they can follow me on Instagram Dr. Lara Salier TikTok creativity doctor and just anywhere that you see rainbows and colors unusually around there either dancing drawing trying to get people to understand creativity is the sixth vital sign so I challenge all of you to draw something today Oh great one so we'll leave you with that challenge to draw feel free to share any experiences here or wherever you listen to the podcast thank you so much Laura for your time today thank you