 Good evening, good evening everyone. We're going to start this show and I'm going to call up our four panelists one by one, give me a little introduction and maybe you'd like to show your appreciation of them joining the show and I'm sure it's going to be entertaining and instructive 45 minutes. Let's see how it goes. First of all I'd like to call to the stage a very good friend of mine. She's traveled all this way, all this way. She's come all the way from Holland, a very early start this morning just for this, just to be here with us for the last few days of the festival. Woman international master from Luxembourg, round of a post place for Fiona Stylantoni. I've got my fox here, Fiona. Looking forward to that. Okay and next we've got two guys and two girls as a panelist. The next man, I can see him over there. He's come many, many times to this festival. He's a great friend of all of us. He always gets a huge round of applause when he comes to collect his prize which is always one of the top one, two, three or four prizes. I'm from France, Maxime Vachier-Lagrave. Merci Maxime. Merci. Bonsoir. Hey. Next up on my right please, another young woman. I think it's only her second time in Gibraltar if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure she'll correct me if that's not right. She came last year and one of the, well, I mean she's, I think she was, she can tell herself. She's an international master, she's a women's grandmaster from Indonesia, Irene Karisma Sukanda. I was going to try and sum up your career there but I'll let you, you can talk about it maybe. You've been like Asian women's champion, haven't you? Once or twice? Yeah, twice. And in Gibraltar your second time? Second time. And to complete our quartets or quintet with me, for the start of the show we may possibly make a change or two as the evening proceeds. Let's see. The last remaining seat is going to be filled by a man who was challenged for the world chess championship in 1993 and he's an absolute superstar. He loves Gibraltar, Gibraltar loves him. English Nigel Short. So we did this last year at Q&A and we actually invited people to submit questions in a box and also on the night which we then read some of them out. We're doing it a bit differently this time. We're going to start the show up here and then we'd certainly throw anything open to the audience. We've got the lovely Tanya somewhere. Tanya, can you show us who you are? Hey everyone, good evening. A very warm welcome to our panel members and to all of you. Thank you for joining us. Stu is going to open the floor for audience questions. We've got this amazing throw mic here. It's also a lot of fun. If you have a question just raise your hand. I'm going to throw this across. Good luck catching it and we'll have your question then. Thank you. So if Tanya is going to throw that at you and you can speak into it like a microphone. Okay, we'll see how it goes. And Susie is also going to help. Susie, are you going to help? She's going to help us out. If Susie has a question for Stu, I'm just going to throw it across. And then you just talk into it. Easy. Amazing. And then you throw it back. Amazing. That's a nice one. Okay, let's start with the subject. Well, first of all, I'd like to... Is that me? Don't think it's me. My jacket. Just very quickly, Fiona, just tell us about your trip to Gibraltar today. Just tell us how you got there. So I was working in a Vaikon Zeyet at a steel tournament. It's been many years that I said I wanted to come back to Gibraltar. I played here in 2011. And this year it was finally time, so I took a plane from Amsterdam this morning and here I am. What time did you get up? I got up. I had to pick up at 6.30. So very early. He woke up cold. Fantastic. Okay, I actually checked your Wikipedia page just upstairs, Fiona, before this. And this is really nice. Actually, Tom is here. Tom Weber is here in the audience. He's come with you from Amsterdam. Tom? He might be hiding. Oh, there he is. Hey, Tom, well done. This is on your Wikipedia page. It says, Fiona and I am Tom Weber won the Blitz pairs tournament in Gibraltar 2011. This was the first time the smashing pawns of club that she founded with some friends was represented in any tournament. Tell us about that. Yeah, so when we played here, there was the pairs Blitz and I said to Tom we should play and he said, no, we're just going to embarrass ourselves. Let's not do that. But I managed to convince him and we surprisingly won all our games. And it was a lot of fun. It's actually the only time I've ever played this format, alternating moves. I've played a lot of, I think, hand and brain people have heard about that, getting very popular these days. But this format without consultation was the only time and it was a great experience. It's one of my fondest memories. Okay, that was in 2011. Exactly, a long time ago. Okay, I think we should talk about free day. And I'm looking at a man on my right who I think can help us. Nigel, why is Arkady Dvorakovic the right man to lead free day? Well, he is indeed. Look, already we've seen a very significant number of changes. The model for free day for decades has been to tax the players, tax organisers, tax the federations. 92% of free day income was derived from taxing players. And this is the exact opposite of a model of a successful sporting body. So, you know, one of the first things he's done is, well, increase the sponsorship and also cut the fees by 40%. So it's very, very significant. And there's a massive increase in the development fund. There are many, many things that we are doing. I'll just mention some other things. We are sticking to our statutes. We had certain people, you know, Malcolm Payne was very happy that he got the sponsorship from Saudi Arabia. But as he said, to a number of people myself, Emil Zatovsky, he knew very well that Israelis would not participate in that event and that it would not be invited. With the new administration, there is absolutely no discussion on issues like this. We are not going to hold events in countries where players from certain federations are excluded. So, you know, we have good regulations. We're going to put principle before money. What about your personal role, Nigel? I see myself actually dealing with many, many issues. So it's a sort of floating role. And one thing I would like to see is a better representation from the federations. Historically, there have been a number of federations which actually don't have statutes, don't have accounts, and don't even have elections. And I think we have to improve governance and basically require federations to meet certain minimum standards. Maxim, I'd like to ask you, as a top professional player, one of the world's best chess players, how do you feel about the changes at FIDE so far? Well, it's, of course, an interesting development. There are things that obviously were done not very properly because of the lack of time, for instance, the world's WAPI then-based championship announced three weeks before. In which you did not play, Maxim, you didn't play this? Yeah, I didn't play. Why not? I mean, I had plans already and it was going to be too difficult to change my plans to get a visa in London and everything. But, of course, I understand very well that it was not possible to actually handle this better than they did. So, you know, I'm not going to be a judge of that. And I hope, of course, that then everything would be transitioning smoothly and I think it's sort of on the way. I mean, there are things that are, like, because I can talk only from my point of view. For instance, for the World Chess Championship cycle, for instance, the Swiss tournament is interesting, but in my opinion, if you're going to hold an event like this, it cannot give just one spot. You're talking about the Grand Swiss 106 players, I believe? I think it should be, like, almost all-or-nothing for this kind of event. And as for the Fidegram Prix, I cannot talk too much. I just know it went to a knockout cycle, but we don't have the full details yet. It's actually an interesting change, but I'm looking forward to see what it brings. Okay, may I ask Irina now, coming from Indonesia, do you get actively involved in the politics of your federation or Fide things? I won't, if I help. I mean, I try not to because it's just a little bit too messy. I've already just concentrated on my chairs at the moment. So, yeah, but at some point later, maybe when I'm retiring from chairs, maybe I'll try my heart to help my federation. I mean, as number one in your country, number one woman player, number one active player, in fact. Does your federation help you? Do you get support from your federation? Currently, no. No? No, everything was by my own. Right, okay. So, yeah, I hope... I mean, I think this is just the way and many of the federation, actually, they're not... Okay, I have no idea about the Fide changes to my federation. I still cannot feel the change up until now, but maybe what I can say is that I'm very saluting Fide for their decision for the women's candidate. I think it's a very great move to advance the women in chairs as well. It's also a substantially increased price. Yes, it's a very good move. So, you know, look, we've only just begun and as Maxime has pointed out, there are some teething difficulties. If we have the same problem next year, you will be right to be annoyed with us. Yeah, I agree with you. But unfortunately, we inherited a situation and essentially, we had only one sponsor and one sponsor who was unfortunately not going to abide by the Fide statute. So that's why we needed to change. Like I said, I understood completely the situation. Fiona, let me just bring you into the conversation. Fide, have you ever worked with Fide or do you have any particular ties with the World Chess Federation? Well, I was at the match in London as the Deputy Press Officer. Right, so tell us about that a little bit. It was a good experience, whether I will be more involved or not in the future, we will see. But I think, like most people, I'm very excited about the new management and to see what it's going to bring. But I was very happy to see Erika Dietrichovic be elected. Now, this is a question for all of you, but maybe I'll start with Nigel Nigel. Is there a place for Gibraltar in the Fide family? Well, it depends what you mean. We have our statutes if you're talking about federations. And according to our statutes, you need IOC recognition, which Gibraltar does not have. However, I do believe there is a place for Gibraltar with some sort of associate membership, i.e. non-voting rights. So that is something which I would like to see. So, obviously, this is a... So, thank you, Brian. It's obviously, you know, it's a small territory, but with a very, very active and professional organization. Because we have very large federations who do almost nothing. Correct. But, you know, we have our regulations, and there is a reason, actually, why we attempt to follow IOC regulations. For some federations, they are totally dependent upon government money. And this IOC recognition is extremely important. So, you know, countries like the Islamic Republic of Iran, where I was a coach once upon a time, that was receiving, when I was there, about $2 million a year from the government. It's the sort of money that would make the ECF extremely envious. And you will see that Iran has gone places. Some very, very talented young players. It's great to see Sarah Kadem here, who's been playing fantastically well. And two second places in the rapid and blitz. And, of course, by the way, sorry to mention this again, had we been playing in Saudi Arabia, she would have been excluded. So, you know, we are in favor of doing things correctly. We have nothing against Saudi Arabia. In fact, we're very happy to cooperate with them. Delighted to have King Salman sponsoring the event in St. Petersburg. But, you know, if we're going to host events, we're going to follow our own rules, and it's as simple as that. I'd like to ask Maxim about something that came up in the interview with Leveronian, the interview that I think he gave with Tanya, was about wild cards. He is against wild cards in the World Championship cycle. Do you have a view on that? In fact, he benefited from that himself. Yeah, I've always been against it, but that's one of the first things I would have changed. The problem with wild cards is you always exclude people on merit. You know, it's not without cost. If you have people bypassing the system, there are people who are qualified and who don't have financial support who are left out of things. And actually, historically, it's one of the reasons, I mean, if you think about the World Championship, the World Championship was essentially a wild card thing that if you could raise money to play the match, you got to play a World Championship match. And it meant that there were some very interesting players in chess history who didn't get to play World Championship matches because they were not able to get the financial backing. So I think this is another positive thing. We're going on merit. Do we have anything from the floor? Tanya, any questions from the floor on anything that we've raised at the moment? Any points? Tanya, have you got the microphone? Right. So anyone? Otherwise, we'll move along. We've had some interesting discussions. Anybody? Any questions on Fide? I think everyone's happy with the new Fide. Everyone's happy? What about women's chess? Fiona, what can you tell us about women's chess? I think women's chess has a long, long way to go still. I think what Gibraltar does, among others, is fantastic, of course, but it's still a lot of work, a lot of work to be done. When I look around, there's just so few of us. Why do you think that is? That's a very good question. It's a question that's very difficult to answer. Of course, as a woman player, you get asked that quite a lot, but the truth is I don't really... I think it's a mix of so many factors. I think mostly we need to find a way to keep girls and women in chess. I don't think that they are not interested at the core. I think it's just a matter of keeping them interested. Irene, tell us about women's chess in your country. Yeah, women's chess is currently growing in Indonesia. I think we're overpassed the man's, actually, in terms of the numbers. Fantastic. One of the few federations in the world, I guess. Yes, I'm very happy about it, too. In the last few years, we gained more women's grandmasters than men's grandmasters. Maybe that's one of the factors, too. But the thing is, I'm trying to also popularise chess nationally. Maybe that's why I was being recognised as Indonesian Forbes 303 this year. So I'm pretty happy about it, too. Such recognition would definitely help chess more popular in Indonesia. Does this torment get reported in the Indonesian newspapers or in the media? It's Forbes, Indonesian Forbes. Indonesian Forbes, okay. Are you talking about this torment you brought up? Will the newspapers in your country be following your progress? Of course, not only newspapers. All sorts of medias, electronic and all sorts of medias. Indonesia also got a few Facebook groups which I've also followed and they've been talking about me playing in these Gibraltar masses. They've been showing a very great sport. How many times have you been to Indonesia? You must have been a few times. A couple of times, only. But Irene, she's a star. When she came to visit me in Athens, I should just point out that everyone on the panel here has visited me at one of my homes, at least. Maxime and Fiona in London and Stuart and Irene in Greece. So when she came, she came with an embassy vehicle and a chauffeur waiting outside. I can't remember when that was. It was two or three years ago anyway. It was in 2013 or 2014. Yeah, something like that, yeah. So no, she's a superstar. She's a real celebrity there. No, he's a bit exuberant. I have to say Indonesia has been the country where I've encountered most enthusiasm. I went on a holiday, it was completely unrelated to chess. I went to a small town on Sumatra. I was playing on the streets and there was so much enthusiasm. So many people stopped by and then I got tagged in this one photo of playing chess and there were so many Facebook groups of chess fans and I got 200 friend requests in one day just from chess fans that were so happy that the chess players coming to Indonesia and I got so many messages, I hope you like Indonesia and it was just great to see the love of the people for the game and it was the first time I encountered it on that level so that was a memorable experience. I can recall in 1995 I was on a beach in Bali and the lifeguard there was an arbiter actually. So I did ask him whether anyone had ever died on this beach and he said on average about 12 people a year. No, seriously, it was a massive beach and a very popular beach but they probably don't advertise these things. Have you been to Indonesia? Never been. I've been to Japan and China but that's about it. You have to invite Maxime Irini to your country. Yeah, it's going to be a totally different experience if you're crossing the southern hemisphere. Have you been to the southern hemisphere yet? I'm actually not sure. No, I've been to Argentina. And Niger and Fiona were there. That's correct. Maxime, what about women's chess? Let's hear something on women's chess from you. You've been coming to this tournament so many years now. Yeah, my first time in Gibraltar was 2009 and that was the last time I lost to a woman against Nanda Tagnizzi. Anyway, women's chess has gone a long way and there's still a long way to go because clearly there's only women in the top 100. Still, I feel like the level of players improved a lot and I mean, for instance, thanks to tournaments like Gibraltar and everything that has been happening in the last few years. I think also they get better and better coaches because that helps a lot. Correct me if I'm wrong. And in general it's more and more professional. So I'm certain that there's still a tremendous gap of strengths and I think it will eventually maybe not even out but at least get closer and closer. Don't ever say that men play better chess than women on average because you'll find that you'll get some publicity for that. Sanya, anything from the floor? Yes. Okay, so we've had two important discussions which I think are very relevant. One on Fide, one on women's chess. Talking about Fide, just to see how people feel about it. Those of you who feel that the new Fide is a positive change, raise your hands. Interesting, not as much as I would have thought Nigel. And those of you who believe that they need more time to really prove and we can't really say right now how good it is, please raise your hands. Nigel, you're short, raise yourself. What is this? Interesting, still looking good. Nigel, keep excited now. Thank you Mr. Stuart Rubin for his question. But before that, on women chess, how many of you believe that we will have a women world champion? A world champion who's a woman? How many of you believe that that'll happen one day? Brian? On the panel? Well, why not? Alright, that's interesting. A question from Mr. Stuart Rubin. It wasn't actually a question. You asked about women's chess quite correctly. In my opinion, the reason there are fewer women players than there are male players is because there are fewer women players than there are men players. It's simply a weight of statistics that denies advancement. I'm so pleased that Brian Callaghan at this event has taken further forward what Leonard Barden and I introduced in the Lloyds Bank Masters. I was introduced in England a great deal earlier than that when Vera Menchik turned up. That was actually before my time. Can you believe that? Of course. Any other comments from the audience? Anyone else with any questions? Yes, Andrew? Let's try it. Mind your glass. Andy, go. You have to talk into it. The other way. South America to me was the most... Interesting. We have a lot of players this year from Argentina, especially also from Patagonia. One man here from Tierra del Fuego. Anything else from the floor at the moment? We have a question from Brian. It was about the last question. I actually feel women are going to take over the world. It's going to be a woman's world champion. Nigel, you had a difficult game today. You told me you had a rook trap or something. We just heard the news that Vladimir Kramnik has announced his retirement from classical chess. You may not know that. He announced it yesterday, I believe. Last day or two. He's retiring from classical chess. Nigel, your thoughts? Well, he's been talking about this for a very, very long time indeed. I didn't take him seriously in the past, but I can understand it now. He's just had a very tough tournament in Vicense. I think what he said is that the motivation goes. Once the motivation goes, you're not interested in working. Once you're not interested in working, you get in a downward spiral. I'm very, very familiar with this phenomenon. There are other reasons. Why one may play worse. It's not as though he's ancient. He could continue. The motivation is actually the key thing. Dr. John Nunn said he thought this was the main factor in people's decline. Yes, the brain rots. Yes, people's energy levels dip. But the main issue is that people just lose the enthusiasm to keep on working. Is it something that you think you could imagine yourself doing also quitting professional chess? The problem is I'm unemployable in any other capacity. So I need some sort of income. But I can tell you something that's interesting to me. I'm just going to apologize here for the many people in this room who don't know anything about cricket. But I remember seeing an interview of Glenn McGraw, the great Australian fast bowler. And he said he started some series very eager to do well in the series. And by the end of the series he just knew that he wanted to retire. And for me, I haven't quite got there. But I played in every Olympiad since 1984, up until last year when, of course, I was running for Fide President. And for me, actually, the Olympiad was always a tremendous joy. It was a source of pride to play in the Olympiad. And then I decided not to play last year. And I absolutely wasn't bothered. Really, you didn't miss it? Absolutely, not at all. And so it means there is something that has shifted in my mind after so many years of playing for the country. And I just thought, play, I play. I just didn't care. And I was doing other things which I thought were much more important. But you're playing here, Nigel? I'm playing here, and I'm glad to be here. And if I didn't blunder rooks quite so often I might be happier. It was the same story like last year. I had plus three, and then I play Leveronian, and he sends me on a downward spiral. Just like this year? And it's the same. It's the same again this year, plus three. And then sort of crashing back in the direction of 50%. Maxim, Chess, what keeps you playing? Chess, what drives you forward? He's young. I'm young. I still have something to play for. But talking about Vladimir a bit. Were you surprised? Did you know this was going to happen? Well, surprised in a way that I didn't think of it. But he's indeed been talking about it for a long time now. I think the first time he told me about it was in 2013. So before the World Cup in Trump's house and he bet me there in the semifinals. So not bad for someone who prepared this retirement. But anyway, he's been a wonderful player to watch. I've had also the pleasure of working with him a bit so I know fully well his capabilities. Also in terms of analysis, which were maybe even more impressive than his playing abilities. And we're talking about a man who bet Gary Kasparov in a 16 games match. So yeah, really adds up to him. And best of luck to Vladimir for his next steps in life. Fiona, tell us a little bit about your chess career. You traveled to lots of events. You did a lot of video work, publicizing work. Tell us in your own words. Yeah, so I started in 2014. I think unlike Nigel and Kramnik, I suffered like an amateur's curse at some point. I think I was playing too much. I wasn't putting in any work in. My rating kept dropping and I had the same, I think problem on a different level, of course. But I was a bit fed up with playing. Did you consider quitting? No, not yet. But I was lucky that I got this opportunity to remain in the chess world. Actually also, I'm a 2100 player. I'm never going to make a living from playing chess, of course. But then this opportunity came up to work on tournaments and it's been a fantastic adventure. I'm very lucky to be able to make a living from my passion and to travel and to meet all these great people. I think really there's such a big social element to the game of chess. It's not just a fantastic game, a fantastic sport. But it's all these people that you see all over the world. Some of them I might see once a year. Some I might see more often. But it's a great game. I just wanted to say as well about Kramnik. I was in Vaikansi now. Of course, yes. And I thought it was a bit sad actually to see him commit chess suicide like that in quite a few games, especially of course the last game. But I think what is good is he said he wants to remain in chess. He might play the occasional rapid and blitz tournaments. He will play simmers. He said he wants to get involved with chess and education. So I wouldn't be surprised to see him open maybe his own school or something. I think it will be good to... He's never played in Gibraltar, Vladimir Kramnik. Do you think it's too late, Nigel? Too late? Too late, yeah. He did say to me some years ago he said if he could get paid lots of money for doing nothing he would quit chess immediately. Yeah, but I think he has sort of a chess school in Russia. At least is in charge of a similar project. Tonya, any questions from the floor? We do. Yes? A question from Maxime. I guess you followed the World Championship match. No, we didn't. We just wanted to ask you how did you assess the level of the match, the level of play from both players? And do you ever see yourself qualifying to play a World Championship match? Coming from Magnus' very good friend. No, the level of play was extremely impressive. The level of preparation with black as well, with white, I think both Fabiano and Magnus had some difficulties setting up problems. And as for me qualifying, if I thought I didn't have a chance I might follow Vladimir's footsteps right now. Does that answer your question? Any more questions? Can you tell us your name and your question? Hi, my name is Matthew Wilson. So AlphaZero is not commercially available because it's not part of DeepMind's mission. But at some point top chess players are going to get a hold of extremely sophisticated AI, sophisticated neural networks. Do you think this will dramatically change the game of chess, still the game of chess off? If these kind of systems prove the game to draw? Or generally what difference do you think it will make? Do you think there will be some sort of arms race as top players try to produce their own systems and get ahead of the opposition? Maxim? Well, first of all I think we can all safely imply that chess is a draw. So even if we get formal proof of it it will not change much on the current situation. In terms of preparation assisted by AI I don't think it will dramatically change because in a way, I mean, that might be a bit optimistic but the combination of computer and human we can go through the moves and then make a step back if it goes wrong and keep on analyzing like this I don't think there would be a really huge difference compared to an AI but I might be wrong and if anything it might enrich our knowledge of chess but of course, ever since computers got so powerful as the level of preparation has dramatically increased from amateur level to ground master level to obviously super ground master level and this trend has been drying out a bit the games in most super tournaments for instance. What about the difference between open events? Maxime actually that brings us on to a subject I would like to ask you all as well like ours in Gibraltar where you're playing someone 300 points below you and you really have to win in order not to lose rating points. Yeah, of course we have to win also we're playing weaker players so of course we're expecting to win more often. Do you play other open tournaments during the year or in Gibraltar? Do you play other open tournaments? I play in Ilockman this year so yeah I play one or two open tournaments a year generally but yeah, when you play the likes of Magnus Carlsen, Fabiano Carona, Levan Aonian, Vladimir Kramnik, you're not expected to win that many games and of course in an open tournament I'm going to win some more I'm still going to make a few draws especially with black but yeah, it's refreshing I mean I don't like the fact for instance I mean we haven't discussed but I don't like the fact that we get to see always the same faces in every event It's interesting you said that and that for instance I play Magnus and Fabiano and everyone I don't know, ten times a year maybe more if we can drop it Do you think that feeling is generally shared between the sort of group of the top guys? I sort of think so but I could be wrong It's incest, isn't it? That's basically what it is Irene, what's it feel like to come to an open like this one and be able to play the likes of Maxime and Hikaru and all the other fantastic players who are here? Yeah of course I'm very happy and if it was possible I would like my games to be all my first round games so I got to play somebody like Le Bon, like Maxime you know in every game of mine but yeah, I mean this is a very good opportunity especially for the girls as well to be playing against you know 26, 2700s which I don't think we can actually play in any other tournaments unless it was like something like Isle of Man or you know it's very few in a year so yeah the Gibraltar is definitely going to be my permanent calendar in my tournament schedule so I think for the years to come there will be more girls playing coming here and then yeah Coming to Gibraltar? Of course coming to Gibraltar this is definitely my favorite tournament We hope so It's actually far more interesting to have players of different ability So you know I played in the past in a lot of these top events the sort of events that Maxime has described and except the standards are even higher today and when there is such a high percentage of draws then it's a problem I think it's really a problem for chess and there will be some changes I'm pretty sure to the World Championship final exactly what they will be I don't know I've certainly contributed my tuppence worth of thoughts but I think the Carlson Karawana 12 draws just to remind everyone it was inadvertently provoked an existential crisis in chess and I think in future you can't have so many free days that they have to be reduced substantially because we know that chess if played correctly is a draw So you know in a way you have to induce some errors Yeah if I may add because I'm a proponent of reducing the number of free days in the match because Of decreasing So you've been preparing for the match for six months so you don't need one free day with two games Who in the audience agrees with that? Reduce the number of free days in the World Championship This way you can also If you're keeping a match because Nigel might have said that this was not certain but if you keep a match you can also increase the number of games this way I'll tell you why I like I wrote an article in New in Chess it was my last article because I got sacked actually by New in Chess but I said that the problem with tournaments tournaments are very interesting but there is an inherent danger in tournaments in that you can have fixing and the problem is the point about playing a match is if your opponent can't lose on purpose against you well he can but he's only helping and you can have people selling games in a tournament format so this is I think I don't think these sort of things happen very often by the way I should state that I think it's rather infrequent but if you do have such a case it's an absolute disaster and this was the whole point about Bobby Fischer in Kurosawa in 1962 and he said that the commies were cheating and it wasn't a world championship tournament but it was a candidate's tournament and he was right I think he was not even in playing they were losing on purpose they were drawing but it could be the case it could have been in fact they were just saving their energy in a very long tournament which is well it's fixing the results and also by the end it could have been lost on purpose but not even lost on purpose but lost by higher authority so I think it's got to be matches Fiona you were at the match in London the Magnus Fabiano match was there a real buzz there because in terms of the public the audience the people in London was there much of a noise about chess was it a lost opportunity? I think it was a big lost opportunity especially when you get to hold a match in a city like London where there was so much potential I have to say I was a bit disappointed it was the first match I attended so I don't have anything to compare it with but obviously I've been to a lot of other tournaments and I lived in London myself so I know how much love there is for the game in London and there was a couple of posters at the venue and that was it a lot of people couldn't even get in and if you could get in sometimes you had to pay up to 70-80 quid and you were only allowed in the playing hall for 15 minutes I think we can have a change in the panel now because we had Alejandro who had agreed to come on Maxime, thank you so much for joining the panel Maxime Bachelograph Alejandro, welcome thank you, hello your first time in Gibraltar how does it feel? pretty great already one of my favorite tournaments it's really fun, the weather is nice side events are great playing conditions are nice and it's so strong how's your tournament going so far? so far so good I kind of let a big fish go today who was that? that Ciparinov I'm sure I was winning at some point but I just couldn't finish him off I'm pretty happy with my performance so far now I know that you're Costa Rican I believe you were one of the youngest gyms in the world when you got the title, is that correct? I think when I got the title I was in the top five youngest ever at that moment and when I got the title the only person that was younger than me I think was Sergei because I think I did it before Magnus Sergei Karyakin yeah, sure and now you live in St. Louis? yeah, I live in St. Louis capital of chess in America tell us about that a little bit it's pretty nice we've had an immense amount of progress in every area of chess in St. Louis for the last 10 years thanks to one man? pretty much one man Rex Singfield that really has sponsored anything you can think of inside the chess world of course from the international perspective everybody sees our top tournaments including the US Championship the Singfield Cup the Grand Chess Tour but once you're in St. Louis you realize there's so much more there's so much outreach in what's scholastic chess there's so much outreach outreach in many different chess programs that people can't imagine Rex is an amateur chess player he must be, I don't know him yeah, he's an amateur but he still cares, he trains he knows one or two openings what about the changes the subjects that we've been talking about that you've been listening to Fide, women's chess anything you want to say about those subjects from your perspective over in the States I think in those subjects I'm not the expert I think the battle covered it pretty well yeah well one thing it might say in the last few days there has been a change in that Fide has reclaimed the world championship and the candidates and it was one of the things that Fiona was complaining about quite rightly in my view in London we inherited the situation the previous administration favored this deal with Aegon in fact, Macropolis who was voted for unanimously by the English chess federation to the great shame extended the contract to 2026 we have now changed this we are taking control of the world championship and it means that we will get sponsors we will get bids from places and I believe Rexingfield in St. Louis will be one who will be interested and hopefully we'll get many other bids particularly from Norway and other places as well so this is a very very important change I think the Aegon contract was not in the interest of Fide and it certainly wasn't in the interest of chess it may have been in some individuals interest what is needed for chess to attract sponsors of the likes of Coca-Cola Google some huge cooperation like that or is that never going to happen I think it can happen I think early stages in fact I propose to Demis Hussup is that we don't have an elo rating we have a Google rating and there are all sorts of sponsorship opportunities that Demis was very interested in the idea he's part of Google he's not the top guy but these are the sort of ideas which I think are very very obvious ideas and they just have not been tried we've had an organization which is the only idea is to tax players you know if they would have thought of taxing players for fiancetoing their bishops then they would have done so but they're not smart enough to think of such tax but that's basically how they have operated a rent seeking model for decades which has done absolutely nothing for the game we read that people like Sir Richard Branson are keen chess players but he's never put a penny into chess as far as I know correct and maybe Bill Gates and others well let's not forget until recently we had a president of FIDE was on the department sanctions list and that is not very good and we've had immense problems even opening a bank account and that's actually what it's really sad to say that this is one of our achievements in our first 100 days to open a bank account and it is incredibly difficult when the reputation of an organization is rock bottom that banks won't touch you but thankfully we've over we've overcome that and now have a bank account that how do you pronounce it Kaysa sounds like the goddess of chess how do you pronounce it okay Tanya anything from the audience anything from the audience if not I have yes we have a question so please tell us your name and state your question Mark you're from Kansas right you came last year from Kansas yes good to have you back with the Karpov chess school in the United States and so you're talking about the world championship and what would you think of increasing the energy element by making them play two games a day for two weeks for 24 games who you asking Irene Irene what do you think about let me for Ali because he was the second of Karoana okay so the idea if I got a right to play two games a day I believe sir for two weeks I think that's right yeah but the current world championship is three weeks right one game a day well I get paid by the day so I don't really like your idea two games a day is tough no what about quicker time controls who thinks that the time controls should be made shorter quicker to get the games yeah in general double rounds are an abomination they are a crime against chess so they should never happen under any circumstances and actually if I had my way and I know people will oppose me I would say you should never even rate any event that you have double rounds it should just be automatically disqualified from being rated that would be my view and I know other people would have it's the same reason you don't play two games of football in one day you don't play two games of tennis you don't play two games of cricket because the quality goes through the floor Ali how do you say something I think chess is a very flexible game and I think that we should have more types of chess more tournaments that are double rounds more tournaments that are rapid more tournaments that are blitz more tournaments that try this and that I think that when it comes to the world championship it's very clear that we should strive for a high probably as high of a quality of the game as possible but the idea that you have tournaments even as wonderful as this but that take ten days is really tough not for us like chess professionals even we know one year in advance that I'm coming back to Gibraltar but for a lot of amateur it's very difficult to take this amount of time and it's difficult for them to ask of many people to dedicate ten days of their lives to a tournament whereas double rounds enable you to do tournaments in three days four days sometimes in a weekend yes it's not ideal yes it's not going to be high quality but I think that sometimes we focus too much on how good chess is at a professional level and it goes back to what you were saying about sponsorship why would somebody sponsor a game that's not played and double rounds enable so many more people to play schedules that they wouldn't be able to in a traditional nine round one rest day ten day tournament you have a lot of double run events in the states a lot of large number of games packed into as few days as possible yes of course it has its drawbacks they are sometimes popular for example things like the world open it's an incredibly strong tournament yes a lot of people see it as an abomination of a tournament because you have a bunch of double rounds there's no preparation everybody's always exhausted you can barely have time to eat but it's part of the challenge it's a different type of tournament it has its prices, it has its ups and downs I don't think that just because there is an ideal type of tournament we should skew having different types of tournaments perhaps are not as ideal for us but more accessible to other people Fiona what do you think about that I was just thinking about what Alejandro was saying about how there is so much room for new types I'm really excited I have to say for what the No Wages are doing this year with the knowing, prim and time control and if the game is drawn they will have a playoff so there's always a winner at the end of the day and I have to say I'm very excited for that I think it could be a complete success could also be a complete fiasco I think there's a lot of room there the willingness to try new systems there too I think there's so much room so I'm very excited to see where chess is going to go you won't know this friend but we actually had three visitors here from No Wages during Gibraltar they stayed a couple of days did you know that Nigel? you met them of course so have a look at what we do here and we have also visitors coming tomorrow the strong tournament is up in Catalonia in Spain so we think that's because we're doing quite well people want to come and spend time and see how we do it Arvini, what do you want to say? please I don't know I've played chess all around the world and I would say in the US sometimes in the weekend I play like three games a day the same goes with in Australia it's very common practice there either working or schooling so during the weekend sometimes there are like 60 minute games for three games of course it's more accessible for the amateurs to play more games in the shorter time control but definitely for world match I don't think it's going to happen one game a day is much more proper but this is why you have this is why you have rapid chess if you want to play more games a day and it's perfectly fine to do that you have a much faster time control what I'm against is trying to play some sort of classical chess twice or even three times in Australia they play three times a day trying to play classical chess three times a day and everybody's dead does Magnus not say that he thinks the classical world championship title should include rapid or possibly include rapid and blitz games did he not say that at the end of Fiona? yeah I have to say I was a bit surprised in a way because I think the world championship matches have such a rich history and it would be such a fundamental change so I was a bit surprised but I think he has of course a lot more experience he has a lot more knowledge about chess history he's also very good at blitz he's also very good at rapid and blitz I mean I'm personally against it I also think matches should keep their classical formats and as Alejandro said give the players the chance to play the highest possible quality of chess but yeah Magnus is a big fan Tanya in the audience anyone? yeah we have a question from Kenny hi Kenny tell us where you're from I'm Kenny I'm from South Africa I know yeah but just tell us so I mean where I'm from I'm from South Africa and we have lions and to be you know when the lion comes you have lions yeah we have lions to rule the kingdom you have to dethrone the king so I'm of the opinion that classical formats should remain classical and the challenger it's on the challenger to prove that he can become the world champion to dethrone the world champion in classical chess so it's basically my opinion and I would like to know what do you think about the challenger proving to be the next world champion by dethroning the world champion in only classical chess and not rapid chess you think the current system is perfectly fine no no I don't think there should be a rapid or tie break blitz or rapid you're proposing going back to the old system that the challenger should win the challenger should prove that he can overcome the world champion because he wants to be world champion you know so to be the man you have to beat the man so that's I mean Kramlik defended this title by against Peter Liko during the match so Liko unfortunately did not become world champion there was no tie break so we don't remember Peter Liko becoming world champion and we still remember Kramlik was world champion so yeah I would like to know your thoughts on this on the stake anyone man we only drew now I have to win I think that there's a lot of debate about how to break ties in chess not just for the world championship that we've had we have tie breaks here by the way for the first prize Kramlik maybe you don't know it's your first time here no right no I watch every year it doesn't matter but it's tough I mean for the world championship I don't think you'll ever find a way to make everybody agreeable on it of course rapid and blitz is far from ideal especially when you work for Fabi and I think that other systems like giving a player that is defending the champion an advantage over the challenger it's also a little strange because at the end of the day why is the world champion who's already waiting for a challenger to appear after a very long process also given the advantage of a point and I've heard different ideas I've heard give the challenger an extra white I've heard other kinds of stuff and I think that we can try different things I don't think any idea has been truly terrible but at the end of the day we're always going to have the disagreement that it's not ideal on what to do because draws are part of the game tying the matches are part of the game and it's going to favor one side or the other or we're going to have to have rapid and blitz which is also posing the question of whether it became a real classical world championship or something so there's not an ideal solution talking about draws Nigel I know you have some views about stalemates before Nigel goes on Kenny actually has something to say to Alejandro on that let's just get his thoughts and then we'll get back to Nigel just a moment I was thinking that I didn't consider the world champion has an advantage over the challenger because we have to remember that the challenger has more motivation to prove to be the next world chess champion so I mean you have to dethrone the world champion so I don't see how the world champion has an advantage if the match ends in a tie because I believe that the world champion he represents his generation so he's the world champion so to be world champion you have to beat the world champion Kenny who would you like to see the next world champion who would you like to see any favorites Kenny some I used to like Aronian I think he has you're used to I'm a big fan of Aronian actually is he in the audience I don't see him I hope he pulls through in the next candidates Nigel, stalemate I just want to answer because actually Kenny is raising a very serious point I know you're living in Venice these days Kenny but I can assure you last time I was in Cape Town there were no lions on the streets but the serious point is that there is actually a strong argument for what Kenny says the most I think disastrous match in chess history was the Karpov-Kasparov match in 1984 to 1985 which lasted for five months I mean I recall this match it was incredibly boring I mean it was you had months and months and months of utter tedium and the problem when you have a situation where it's the first to win a certain number of games is that the players they are psychologically satisfied with the draw and what you are proposing which is the old way of doing things you give the draw odds to the champion it means that at any point somebody is ahead or somebody is winning the match and this causes the imbalance so the problem with the system is you have to have a match which is long enough because obviously if the two of us play a one game match and I'm the defending champion I have a colossal advantage but if we play a long enough match that advantage diminishes and so the problem was now in London they have a very short match 12 games is historically a very short match the shortest matches have been 10 game matches in world championship history so this is right on the end of the spectrum where it's a very short match so you have to extend it and it can be done if you just cut out a lot of these rest days so I'm not opposed to your idea I'm not sure I'm in favour of it but I'm not opposed to it either we have a question from the audience Brian has a question I'm not really a supporter of Blitz or but I'm very much a classicist in the sense that I support strongly the classical game but I do wonder whether you need more than 4 hours to complete a game and therefore the time controls and things which seem to be inevitable I just wonder whether to play a classical game of chess you need more than 4 hours now technically I can't answer that are you asking whether you should shorten the time control for next year yes you should that's the answer I have no idea I think it's the trend in chess Brian over the centuries is actually ever faster time controls but no all in favour of classical chess I mean classical chess should not be abolished but you can go for the regular time control which you have at the Olympiads you play this 40 move time control like you have here and then you get 30 minutes after this so you're reducing the time and incidentally you can get your reports into the newspapers the on the same day so you've got that advantage and we can have dinner a little bit earlier I think maybe next year next year it's a done deal it's a done deal we have another question from Mr Bilava yes Elisbar welcome to Gibraltar my friends nice to have you here with us my question is what would be today's Magnus? if Bobby Fish at his best could beat today's Magnus Carlson he's just had a fantastic result once again at Vaikanzé Alejandro, no Fiona? I would also tend to say no Irene? I think if he was equipped with the current technology I mean with the proper preparation like what Magnus had with the computer and engine I think he would be able to so you're asking whether Bobby Fisher at his best could beat a guy who just recently has drawn 21 classical games in a row yes it's possible it's possible I don't say he would but it's certainly possible you know I have the utmost respect for Magnus he's an absolutely brilliant player but and he's on his way to becoming the greatest of all time but I think you need a longer sort of track record to demonstrate that and you know what I always say about Bobby Fisher was that Bobby Fisher at his best he burned brighter than any other player in chess history so it was very very intense I'd like to come back to the time control that question as I asked Irene here how you feel about playing along I'm sorry simply I wanted to say that Bobby was in middle game I think better than whoever and also his technique was much better than whoever's technique so why not to say that he wasn't able to beat Magnus Magnus is a great of course but where Magnus can show to Fisher that he's better where in openings in middle game or in technique we have one of Magnus's best friends here in the front where maybe Tony you could give the well he's probably the best game player in the history of chess so Magnus I think that's really obvious when I spoke to Boris Spassky about the strengths of Bobby Fisher Boris always said that Bobby was much better than him in the openings and he said he was much better than Spassky in the end game Fisher was a tremendous end game player and Boris felt that his only chance was in the the hurly-burly of the middle game that on the the technical aspects he couldn't compete I'd also like to bring in Fiona now because you come from a very small chess nation Luxembourg tell us a little bit about funding on your how does it work in Luxembourg what's been your experience of the truth is I know very little of the subject I know there is some funding but not so much I mean we got our expenses covered for the Olympiad but the problem of course in Luxembourg is there was not a single professional chess player so there was and I think we're also a long way to go but at least chess is recognized as a sport and America chess is booming was that not the right word how would you describe the growth of chess in the states I would say it's pretty exponential in the past 10 years it's not about the fact that the Federation or the government gives money the way that it works in so many other countries but there's opportunities to find work in chess to play tournaments that are well-paid so nobody's going to be giving you money the way that it works in some countries but you have the tournaments to play and make money you have more round robin events you have more opens with big prices I think that it's a very different scenario compared to other countries but it's definitely opened the doors for a lot of people that wouldn't have been able to play chess I believe that Alexander Anstruc said it best when he got second not two years ago in the US championship that he was basically thinking of quitting and not playing the US championship anymore until the same US chess club came around because the price phone has significantly increased and just the fact that we have the ability to make money in America from playing has given the opportunity to a lot of these juniors to keep playing chess and becoming much much stronger than they would have had without these opportunities what about sponsorship in the States apart from St. Louis of course where you got all these wonderful events and opportunities thanks to one man basically and his vision if you like for chess what about in other parts of the States I believe that some people have private sponsors even if it's small you don't think it's very often or very common but chess is a tough living, it's a tough way to make a living it's a tough living but for example I believe that Hikaru has Red Bull for example and one of the players here, Varujan Akobian you can see him with his jacket improve my chess it's actually a venture by Meskin Amanov who's also a grandmaster in Chicago and they make good money they are selling chess lessons they sell chess content and there's a good market of people that buy it and they are able as a chess company to sponsor chess players Tanya I have a question for you so I want you to put this controversy to rest once and for all at the world championship there was a video that leaked from your team leaked or it came out by mistake it had some variations on it and everybody was wondering if this was something that you did on purpose or it was a genuine mistake tell us for once and for all what really happened you're on the spot Alejandro yeah unfortunately I'm under contractual obligation to not answer the question so I'm gonna have to leave it at that it was obviously an error give us a little bit well there was one variation that was shown in the video that was played in the world championship so you can probably draw some conclusions from that yeah it was an error one big mistake alright do we have any more questions from the audience yes we do we have good, good Andy Smith again just a very quick question I took up chess it was probably a Fischer Spassky match and I remember the drama of that when it was the first item on the BBC news was the Fischer Spassky match ahead of all the politics and it was 24 games and I think 12 games is way, way too short for a dramatic world championship match it should be back to 24 but the question I was gonna ask was in terms of charisma do you think Magnus Colson has the same charisma as in chess terms as Mikhail Tal or Alecine or Bobby Fischer he's fairly his chess doesn't catch the imagination that those players did in the past charisma is your middle name I believe aren't you? how did you get that name? I asked my parents yeah Magnus Colson, he's charismatic who thinks he's charismatic? yeah, why not actually like his press conferences he's always saying something quite interesting and okay you like in chess varies from people to people and it's impossible to ask people to play the same way that great old players play the chess has become so much more sophisticated especially since the Fischer era you can't ask Magnus to play the way that Bobby Fischer played we've built on him so much he's playing against such stronger opposition yeah, perhaps sometimes you would like for him to sacrifice all his pieces like Tal did but I remember so many times that I've seen Magnus Colson play a combination or find an endgame variation that just amazed me and it was fantastic and seeing it as a commentator sometimes where we have all the engines and everything's running and still seeing him find something that even the engine didn't find in an endgame that you would think was so simple I remember one time that he dominated Hikaru's Knights with a lone bishop in a long slop game I think in one of the London chess classes and for me it was basically like solving a study except he did it over the board because it's not your cup of tea but for me Magnus is an absolutely fantastic player that really brings joy to the game absolutely, we'd all agree with that just by the way on the subject of great great players why is Emanuel Lasker mentioned so rarely how old is Magnus? 28? 28 is it? yeah well you see Emanuel Lasker was world champion for 27 years so you can only beat the people who are there in front of you you can't beat the people that are not there and I think that is you know obviously it's a remarkable achievement and not one which will be equaled or surpassed so you know I think he's worth a mention is he your favourite player of the past Nigel? he isn't my favourite player of the past but I've grown to appreciate him over the years so you know I liked Kappa Blanka I liked Ali Akin I liked guys like this Irene your favourite player of the past or favourite players? do you have a favourite to wrap up? your favourite players? chess history? do you have a read all Tormund books? I would say Kappa Blanka yeah I just like his type of play I don't know and also his handsome and his handsome how long are we getting to answer it? Fiona I only ever had one chess side which was Alexander Morozovich really? okay we wrap it up here what about just before we wrap up Costa Rica tell us a little bit about Costa Rica growing up as a learning chess player well Costa Rica is a beautiful country no chess is really non-existent in Costa Rica and I think it was one of the great difficulties I had coming up as a chess player and I'm very much what they call the ICC generation because back then ICC was like the main way of playing chess that's how you met people and thanks to it I was able to practice against strong players but I mean neither in the past nor right now has there been any real support for a player of that caliber and for me it was very obvious that at some point I had to move away I ended up choosing going to university instead of continuing in a traditional chess career but in either case I just don't see how I would have stayed in a country that is so far away from the centers of chess right right but about time controls I was watching yesterday I came upstairs to fetch something there was a game still going on it was between Stavrula from Greece and Alexander Gorachkina and they were still playing after seven hours 25 minutes to have our women plays and it was finally a draw so Brian that comes back to your point but some players have said to me that hey it's actually nice to come and play a long classical time control here and to be able to play out endings as we used to in the old days and it's not necessarily a negative thing after adjournments it's not all negative I mean some people do like to have time and you know you go upstairs after five hours and see plenty of exciting games still in place and results still in the balance you know so it's not just a negative thing having a long time controls ok Nigel yeah I think maybe we're about time to finish unless you've got a last question from the audience um anyone? I think not ok thank you very much I'd like to thank the audience for staying with us, I'd like to thank all our panellists including Maxime who is here first of all Maxime Vachele Graf first of all Alexander Ramirez Fiona Irene it's Irene it's Irene not Irene nice your shot thank you me yeah ok thank you