 A very good morning to you. It is Tuesday, Entrepreneurship Tuesday here on Why in the Morning on your Y254 channel. This is your favorite breakfast show and my name is Hilda Wadidhi and it's about time. We talked to some young people in studio and to start us off on Entrepreneurship Tuesday We have brought people who are producing films, people from the entertainment industry. They go by black, black ink frames. Gosh, I don't know what I say today. Black ink films. Anyway, if you don't want to participate in the conversation, do slide into our DM, Y254 channel on Twitter. The hashtag is Why in the Morning, hashtag Entrepreneurship Tuesday. On Facebook, we have Y254 on Instagram, Y254 underscore channel. On DSTV376, Star Times 54, Signet 824. So make sure you do keep it here. So black ink frames. Finally, let us come over to Ropali. Yes, films. Let us meet some of the director and the producer. I have a boy here with me. I have Sunday Lion. But let us say good morning to you first. Hi guys. I'm the producer for Black Ink Films. Hilda said it's films, but it's films. It's dangerous. Yes. And we are here to talk about film production and the entertainment industry. Yes, I go by the names of even Sunday, aka Sunday Lion. And I'm primarily the director for the production house. Okay, so Black Ink. You told me that you guys founded this thing three years ago. And I'd like to know how you guys met. Why did you guys fall in love with film and then decide, oh, let's create this team, let's do this. When did this begin? You landside. I landside. I don't think it happened how you think it happened. We were friends before. We knew we were film producers. So yeah, the friendship was built a long time ago. Then by chance we fell in love with film. We went to film school differently. And then, was it in 2017? Yeah, 2015, 2016, 2017. Yeah, we were at a party and then we were like, guys. So you just come together because you're doing the same thing and form this thing. And yeah, that's how it happened. Actually, I'll tell the juice of the story. So by that time, I think she was working as an editor for a TV program in one of the media stations. And I was just from a project as a cinematographer for an NGO. And we were sitting together after a long work day. And they told me about Black Ink and how passionate they were. And I decided, let's just formalize this. We went and got registered. And yeah, we've been kicking ever since. So it was primarily a group of friends that all of them were doing film in different avenues. So the idea of it being a collaborative pact and it working as such just came to us in a click. And we ran with it. We just did it three years down the line. Okay, so tell me about your first projects together. Wow. My first project together was for an event. It was, I don't know if it's still there. It's called Millionaire. So what happened is, one of the organizers was my roommate, but I was not really interested. So this guy calls me, he's like, yo, we need to have portfolio. See, you get this gig. So I talk to those guys. I'm like, I'll give you an aftermovie. But I need tickets for free. They are like, you know, people are opportunists. They just want tickets for free. But you're going to use your camera and equipment. They rented. So I told my team, being the producer, that we will contribute this and this amount. They'll give us two tickets. We went for people. And then the other two, we will buy for ourselves. So that's what we did. And then we went, we did a very nice aftermovie. It was very nice actually. And then our table stand. Our table stand. Actually, the project we did, it was because we sat down and you were like, and I told them, okay, we have a good team, but we're not out there. So people do not know exactly the new formation we have made. And by that time, I knew a couple of the organizers that were doing the event. So I reached out and she reached out to her contacts. So initially they were like, we've never heard of you guys, you know. We're not sure. Then I was like, okay, I trust in my brand. I trust in my people. And if you want to trust in us, let's work together. If you don't want to work with us, it's okay. And I think coming out of that firm made them consider, made them consider like maybe these people have something to offer. So they gave us tickets and actually it ended up being the networking event that now brought black ink into fruition. We ended up getting jobs with high end clients. We worked with a school in Wilson. They were doing an aviation project on a quarterly basis every three months. We ended up having some sort of contract for the whole year, which was good for the company. Securing such a deal at the beginning of your company, it was huge. And we were able to grow and to just, it boosted the confidence for us as a production house and we knew that we were able to deliver what we had plans to do. So what's harder? Getting started or maintaining? I would say getting started is not hard at all because it is something that comes internally. Most people already know that they want to start. But the affirmation of continuation that you should continue, especially when things now become tough in the next, the hardest thing for us was now collaborating as a team. You know? Because he was the one who came first. I was the one who came first. Our other director is called Agastin Bai. He wasn't able to make it today, I'm sorry. But he also had his own things he had done. So it's a matter of now let's think together because the first initiative is, I have my work at work for me. This is how I do things. And this is how I do things. So getting first of all some sort of routine that would sink us together took a bit of time. Then when that came, communication, how do you communicate? You're so used to doing things on your own. If someone wants to talk to Sandelao. Yes, yes. I'd really like to also understand from what I'm going. Now that you're in a team and now you have to work together, what was your experience like? I think I'm a leader. All is very interesting. Yeah, I'm a leader. So I've been bringing people together since a while back. So it's not hard for me to work in a team. Communication, I wasn't that bad. I knew that if you're working in a team, especially when there's like two guys and I'm the only chick, there's a certain way like you have to communicate and I tried to involve them at least. Since you became a team, I made sure every project I was doing they were involved. So yeah, I think alone you can go far, but together you can go farther. So like I've always believed in teamwork. And I think we've found our way around communication. You're not having these issues anymore. Those were beginner problems. Oh, they don't exist anymore. No. Okay, so let's talk about your individual training. Just in case somebody is interested in venturing into this particular route of work, what experience do you guys have? Because somebody can hear somebody here was producing a TV program somewhere. What training did you go to? Which schools? Which schools, even YouTube, whatever, just let us know. Unfortunately, we did not go to YouTube University, but we've been there recently. I'm very unfortunate. You know, maybe someone out there was waiting to be inspired. Yeah, unfortunately. We actually went to film school. I went to multimedia university. Yeah, and I studied film production and animation. Yeah, so I went to school for this. And I'm a producer. And I'm a video editor. And I also am getting into directing. And before all this, I was a photographer. So yeah. Oh, so you started with photography? Wow. Yeah, because I love photography. When I reached your point, I was like, I love video more. You diversified into film? Yeah, film is amazing. So yeah, I went to multimedia together with Agastin. Yeah, so yeah. Sandy, what about you? I went to Africa Digital Media Institute. You want like the breakdown? Yes. Excuse me. I went to Africa Digital Media Institute and there I was fortunate enough to be at the student council and also chairing in the executive council for the school. You just had to sneak in the lead? You said we do the whole nine yards. Then I went to, actually I went to Gotting Institute. I studied a bit of German. Then I generally went into a bit of consultancy, working on projects in a contractual. So for example, like the NGO project, I was a consultant at DMA and a cinematographer. We were working with around 80 girls with the Shadada Project trying to teach them film. So imagine I came from school to teaching. Wow. Yeah, and actually doing a film that is called A Tieno that was premiered in Nairobi Cinema and also in Kisumu. From there then I started doing jobs as a study camera operator for homeboys' entertainment. Under there I was able to do, I was fortunate enough to work with people like Kaspanyol West, Yemi Aladeh, Mr. Izzy, Yemi Aladeh, Mr. Izzy, Weston, Kerry Hilsord, should I go now? Yes, I was fortunate enough to work with all these people. Then generally I've also been fortunate enough to work with Blackink we've done projects with the Kenya School of Flying, Brookhurst International School, we've done Millennials, we've done Barak Jacuzzi and Friends. We've worked with a couple of people in African Uvo, we've done a couple of music videos that I have to come out and some more that are coming out too. Yes, I also forgot I was nominated for Zanzibar International Film Festival 2017. What a reputation! Yes, and Smartphone Film Competition 2018. Okay, now that we have seen the credentials and reaction over here, can we talk about some of the challenges that you guys have encountered as a group? Especially now that you've been around for long, I'm sure you've had a few challenges. At least we know the communication was a beginner one. So what other challenges can you say that you have faced before we talk about some of your projects? We have external challenges mostly, like lack of proper funding in the film industry, like most of the challenges we are experiencing now are not internal, they are mostly external. So we can say what you're experiencing right now is the fear of stagnation, what you say it maintaining, just maintaining the business where it is and growing. Those are some of the challenges and also trying to be out there. We want people to know about blacking and it's not as easy as we thought. Oh, so getting your brand awareness. Which is interesting because now your Instagram page is over here and we can see a few photos, I can see more photos than videos, I think we can just scroll down and just have a look at their page. Who are these? So just run on people, little photos of when you're starting off and then when you scroll up, there's a couple of videos we started uploading because part of one thing we are big on is strategy. So it's an Instagram platform, you start creating audiences with your pictures, then you start creating video content. That's why most of the things you are seeing beginning are pictures. So it's gradual, it's very gradual. I like your logo, I like the eye. Thank you. Okay, so let's talk about your best project, the best one, the one that you can say in overall the three years, you're like, yes, now this is like your favorite one. Our best project is the one you're going to do next. Oh, so what do you mean? Can we get a small hint? Actually, for us, that's our motto. Every time we do a project, we say the best has not yet been done. It's a gradual increase, it's an improvement. So we have done good projects, but we are yet to do our best one. And when we do the best one, we'll do the best and the best, so we keep on increasing. Okay, so now that you've mentioned that the best one is yet to come, what can we expect from Black Ink? Fire, just expect that. Oh, fire, I like that answer. For 2019, Black Ink is big on collaborations. So you would see Black Ink collaborating with other production houses, which is something very rare. In the Ken Entertainment scene, you'll see Black Ink cooperating with other actual production houses. You'll see us collaborating with corporates. We actually have a commercial coming out very soon. You'll see Brand Awareness what you're doing now. You'll see hopefully more Black Ink on your TV screens, in different channels, different programs. This is part of our strategy actually for 2019. Just to create Brand Awareness and collaborate, that's our plan for the year. And also, we have a short web series coming soon. So you want to be out there as film producers this year. So that's something I think you forgot to mention and it's actually something very... Actually we're doing a web series and we're doing, I think, two films. There are two films coming out from Black Ink. Two short films from Black Ink. Two short films. Exciting, I'll make sure I keep tabs with that because I also used to do film at some point and then I stopped. So let's talk about some of the trending things in your industry. As people who have credentials, you've studied it and then there's this other group of people that went to YouTube to school. Can you say that there's any clash, especially when it comes to getting jobs? Do you feel like it even mattered that you went to school? Can I take that? Yes, okay. My issue with the YouTube University people is not the skill actually. It's the budgeting side, right? Because when you go to film school, you're taught how to make a proper budget for production. Oh! You have to plan writing production schedules, keeping... even writing presentations, writing proposals and most YouTube channels will just teach you how to shoot primarily and I would say from interest, there is no problem with YouTube learning. You could learn from interest a bit so that when you go to school, you have a stepping stone. But the thing is, every time you think about it, you are going to interact with people who are learning if you're thinking about this in the bigger picture. So how will they view you and your education? Okay. So it's pretty important also for verification. People feel safer, especially if you want to go to the corporate world. Oh yeah. People feel safer if you want to look for funding, if you want to collaborate with governments. People feel safer when you have credentials. It's not more or less like you are qualified. It's more or less like you have invested something in it. You have put in money in it so I can trust you with putting money in you. Okay. But when you do YouTube, no offense, but it's bundled. So someone is like, you want me to give you a budget of five million and all you did to learn this is five minutes on YouTube. Yeah. And also how the budget and the conflict comes in with how the budget for clients you find have written a proper quotation that will do a proper production. For this guy, if I have 10,000, I can go out this weekend. So they'll just ask for, do you understand the proper question? Yeah, versus what they do. So clients will feel like I need to go with this YouTube guys because they are cheap and all that. Yes. But also just to state, most people who go to YouTube are people who are interested in being crew. Yes. They are not people who want to do a business. And blacking is trying to do a business. Okay. Blacking wants to collaborate even with the Y-24 movie. Do you want to get some paper? Exactly. We want to be the decision makers. We want to make the decisions, be the boardrooms. And that requires you to have credentials. So it was very strategic for all of us to get credentials because that is the bigger picture of blacking. We want to extend not only the region, but in Africa and also be able to collaborate abroad. Let's talk about, wait, there is a very sensitive topic that I almost forgot about. Risky content. What would you say is risky content for blacking? You know, we are having a lot of issues when it comes to homosexuality, LGBTQ. What do you define as risky content? Like this is a no-go zone or can you actually do it if you had the chance? I think as a creative, you never have risky content because your mind wanders. Because it has an audience. That's why there are some contents that, there's an industry, and I mentioned in Hollywood that exists primarily for that risky content. But also it's more or less in terms of your objective and how you want to be seen as a brand. Sometimes we actually will turn on projects if we feel that it doesn't represent blacking the way it should. So you actually have been in a position where you had to turn your project. We usually say no most times before we say yes because we are three, understand the dynamics and before we can get a go on something we have to all see on the interest of blacking, not on the interest of Sanderlion or on Grace or on Stain Gatuma. It has to be on the interest of blacking as an entity. So that in mind keeps us in check that even if we may not agree in terms of the moral ground it's how do we represent blacking as a company. That's very interesting. I'm surprised that you've actually had an opportunity to turn away some money. You've turned down even opportunities. If you're building a business there's the long term goal. Like someone said there is on why Africans fail it's because if you ask an African if they have a five year goal most of them don't. That thing actually hurts me. We have five year goals, we have ten year goals. Actually the beginning of the year we did the beginning of the year we did a strategic plan for the company that goes down up to ten years that's why you are here. We are good for a decade. I can see some Diani images running through here with people having a good time swimming pool and stuff. What was happening? We shot a holiday camp for Kenya School of Flying and we got to go to Diani. Kenya School of Flying? So you guys were in choppers? Yeah we were in planes. They are called stationers. No actually no. To me flies you see what a cockpit is. We've been with the pilot that's how we fly. We fly with pilots. We don't know about passengers. Okay so let's talk about what do you feel that the government can do to make your life easier as a film producer? I don't know if this will put you guys in trouble. It's okay go ahead. I think she'll just fire as a kill me too. That will solve one of our problems. One of the police is calling for your removal. Yeah that's just it and I think you know like okay I'm sorry to say he should not be in a classification board and that is one of the problems. Whether KFCB and the licensing and all those things that is where the problem is right they made it easier for us to shoot. We can shoot content. So they should make it easier for you to shoot especially when it comes to permits and places. The thing is on a lighter note on firing. Don't come for us Mr. M2. Please do not come for us. But generally it's out of legislation that you govern an industry. So you have proper legislation then you create a regulatory body that then is able to create industry. So we have big problems in the film industry because of legislation and licensing. You get it is sort of unfavoring for a lot of production companies or a lot of SMEs that are trying to venture into the industry of entertainment because of legislation alone. You get it. So if I'm going to meet an investor today and they feel I don't know the government also has problems with you or maybe I want to go and get something and maybe the licensing for it alone is 20,000. You get it. Even shooting in our beautiful CBD it's hectic. There are not very many aerial views and the people who have been able to do it have done it in big budget productions. No photography bans on almost all public places. And you know this is art. Someone wakes up and wants to take a photo in the Nairobi city and they can't do that. So what do they have to do? They have to go and maybe go to a balcony outside their house and take the photo there. But maybe that creative individual would have taken a way better picture if they were allowed to be in a creative space. So legislation is a big issue and also in terms of internally as an industry we have the challenge of regulation as ourselves with the guilds and the associations primarily most people don't feel they are out for the interests of production houses especially startups because we have the ones I'm not going to mention but we have the ones that are doing big budget productions and you find that in those regulation boards they are the individuals who are sitting there. So you see vested interest how can I be in charge of a guild and I have a production house which is going for the same bids. So there is an unfair advantage. There is a big unfair advantage especially if you want to start up in this industry then the issue of we only trust people who are old. We only trust people who are old. Exactly. In our field that's a big thing because I go there and I tell someone I am a director, they look at me, they look at my age which is a big issue until then I start speaking of everything I have done and then I am this impressive individual and they all want to collaborate. I think that's a problem many young people face everywhere not only in your industry. But you see the thing is in our industry people look at experience very much especially I'm not talking about the small stuff I'm talking about the big budget stuff someone wants to put in 100 million on a production house they're not going to look at a 25 year old you get. I'm sorry the age thing it's everywhere so in the spirit of inspiring the young people guy let us not finish like that it's about how we end this interview but as a parting shot what words of advice or encouragement or even just I don't know you should know this like word on the street you can let the people at home know From my side I think what I can tell the young guys is just that keep doing what you're doing don't give up whatever Sunday you're saying I disagree, don't feel like it's an issue because I never bet I met a billionaire that was 25 very few these things happen as you keep pushing and keep going so in 10 years time I'm sure we'll be there but for now you have to keep working these things work out actually it can be done and it's amazing when you get to do it Thank you one boy Sunday I'm the strategist so I have to look at both sides of the coin but generally for me I would speak on the individual which camera am I looking at camera one, camera two yes camera four I would like to speak to the individual that is watching this and is interested in doing this long term I would say first of all congratulations because you have made up your mind then I would say learn as much as you can don't let your ignorance be your downfall learn from the greats even the ones you don't like do we have some amazing directors in the country and we have some amazing directors outside of the country we have some amazing like the top 100 films watch all of them and believe in yourself and be consistent and have patience then something will happen I guarantee you something will happen something will happen I like that social media handle so that we can live with your diani holiday feature because not people when they play in those stuff you could find me at Sundaylion it's Sunday underscore L-Y-O-N on Instagram you can find that films on Instagram and my handle is the t-h-e-e underscore omboy be omboy