 Okay. We are recording. Excellent. Thank you. And good evening, everyone. Today is March 10th, 2021. This is the meeting of the Amherst conservation commission. So starting off with our agenda, just a quick thing for me. Last time we talked about a note from. That we received from shoot. That committee that was looking for input from the town. So, thank you. And so we said that I would write a letter. I want to let folks know that I wrote a letter and sent it in. It was just kind of saying, hopefully exactly what we said, but just let folks know that that is done. So that is it for me. So Dave, do you want to go. I'll just update the, the everyone with a, with a few things. So starting off with some real good news. We do have an assistant land manager, a new assistant land manager. His name is Brendan Kelly. And he's a UMass graduate. Stephanie may recall, I think he's a, I believe he was a conservation biology major at UMass. And he will be beginning in late March. He's a very successful. Thank you, Dave. He, he, he, I'm highly recommended by the search committee and seems like he is rare to go. And, and so we're really excited to have him join Brad. Brad has been. Stephanie and I had a meeting with Brad today. March later in March. And then we'll, you know, we'll have we'll have Brad and Brendan come to a meeting where they can kind of update you on on what's going on out there. Dave, do you know if Brendan is a recent grad or a while ago? I'm just wondering. I think he's fairly recent. I don't have his resume right in front of me, but I think in the last two years. Excellent. Yeah. He is also a firefighter for the town of Amherst and the town of Leverett. So yeah, that's another one of his interests. Let's see, Brad, you know, given the odd winter we're having, Brad has been able to get quite a bit of field mowing done. If you've been out there at Wentworth Farm and Brickyard and the list goes on and on. So it's actually really kind of nice. And I often think of turtle safety. And I'm like, wow, the more we can get mowed, you know, frankly, I'm not wishing that it's probably a function of global warming. But, you know, Brad has had firm ground and knows less snow. And so he's able to catch up on a lot of fields that haven't been mowed in years. And he's going to keep going for another two weeks, maybe, and then we'll shut it down. So that's exciting to get some of that work done. Stephanie and I have been having a couple of meetings and we're having another meeting, I believe, Friday with our town council. We're trying to really kind of jumpstart efforts at the Fort River Farm Conservation Area with the community gardens there. In fact, Brad was working there today a little bit. Again, nothing radical. It's simply trying to activate, get ready to activate those gardens. So we're meeting with our town council Friday to talk about the access. And we have an easement there where there's a couple of easements to get there. It's kind of an odd, you've all been there. And it's kind of odd going through the commercial land to get to our land in the back. So we just want to confirm all of our legal access ways. And then we'll meet with the property owner who's, or the two property owners, whose land we have the right to go over. So we're just trying to move that along. We're getting a little pressure. There's, to their credit, there's a lot of people in East Amherst who would really like to see that move forward. And Stephanie has been working with a number of folks in the agricultural community and in the food security community that really want to work with us and partner with us. There is one group, Steph, and I'm not going to get their name, the name of the group and the person, but she has been assembling raised beds at the old Hitchcock Center and has some of them ready to go. So that's exciting. Tomorrow night, I will be presenting to the Joint Capital Planning Committee some of our capital needs. And I think I mentioned this last time, but front and center are our trucks. Our trucks are very old. They barely pass inspection. And that is both a safety issue and frankly, it's embarrassing. So we need to give Brad and Brendan and all the volunteers and summer staff safe vehicles that they can drive for years to come. So I'm hopeful that I will have their support tomorrow night at the JCPC. I think that's all. I just wanted to put another plug in for Stephanie. Every meeting I do this, it is amazing what she's doing, stepping in while Erin is away. And thank you. Thank you to Stephanie. It's just, it's big. It's really big. And I said to Paul Bachman today, I said, you know, we've got 250 employees in the town of Amherst, and there's really nobody other than Stephanie that has the qualifications and the experience to step in. So thank you, kudos to Stephanie every day for what she's doing. So thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Pleasure. I will say also, Brad, I'm on a couple of deadlines, so I may not stay the whole meeting, but if I'm here and I have comments, I will, I will chime in. Thank you very much, Dave. Okay. So any questions or comments for Dave? Anything you're seeing out there, been out on the trails, any concerns? A lot of people using the conservation areas. It's just, it's amazing. Oh, I will say, I'm sorry, I forgot one update. I've got the preliminary go ahead to hire some summer ambassadors. So what we're going to do is take kind of a hybrid. You may recall at Puffer Spawn last year, we, given the pandemic, we pulled from different departments those staff that might have been underutilized in that department or that department or that department. Well, most departments are now gearing up for a fairly active summer. So the pools will be open. We'll have some summer camp with safety protocols in place. But the good news is we believe we'll have funding through some of the federal programs to hire ambassadors. So our goal is to have some sort of a presence again at Puffer Spawn and perhaps even at some of the trails, the more active trails. So you'll hear more about that in the weeks ahead. We'll also be doing it at our recreation area. So again, this will be kind of a meet and greet function on State Street, eyes and ears for Brad, for myself, and also an education function. Here are the expectations at Puffer Spawn and both for safety, but also just general protocols about dogs, about fire, open fires, and the list goes on, glass, smoking, things of that sort. So, yeah, I'm optimistic about that. I have a question. Yeah. Down here on Pomeroy at the 10th green, across from the 10th green, across Pomeroy, there's a wetlands area. That's under our control, isn't it? Across Pomeroy. Almost to the, almost to the Hadley line. 10th green. On the left. Yeah, sure. Yeah, so that's our, so people shouldn't be in their cutting. I know exactly what you're talking about, Larry. I know exactly where you're talking about. And this goes back actually to when Stephanie was our wetlands administrator. I do know that the gentleman there who owns the property did file many years ago to do annual trimming, annual something in that depression, but nobody has filed in a long time. I think there was something the other day. That's why I didn't get a chance to look carefully because I went by and I heard it and I didn't get a chance to look, but it sounded like there was something going in back there. There shouldn't be any construction, but the... No, no, no. The guy that owns the property there, he likes to keep it trim and neat. So he goes in there and does cutting and things. And so I was just curious what the status was of that. I go by there many times a week in my travels, Larry. And what I might do is we might put that on Erin's list when she's back and settled. It might be a good kind of stop in and visit on a late afternoon or some other day and just have a conversation and say, what's been your practice here? And we need to have a conversation because he does really like to keep that area quite well trimmed. I know. Dave, I want to echo the thanks to Brad, especially Wentworth this week. Like, noticeably, yeah, great job. The parking lot at Wentworth is just getting really, really rough on the Stanley Street side. On the Stanley Street side, no, thank you. Yeah, that's on our list. Now, that's a good reminder. Thank you. I've got some ideas for that. Yeah, Brad and I have been going over a list. We've got Stanley Street parking is on the list. Last year, Brad had brought up some encroachment issues at Wentworth Farm and those need to be resolved. Brad has also been out too. There's an old wellhead or shack out on East Lever Road out on the Askins Meadow. We're trying to come up with a long term solution there. I don't really want to put a band-aid on it. I just want to deal with it once and be done with it. We've got a list of kind of these things that have been hanging around and that parking lot and the encroachment there at Wentworth, as well as this old wellhead, what I think is a wellhead, have all been on our list. We need to resolve them once Brad is back up to full love. Oh yeah. Then the only other thing I'll just say is all of the places that I do a lot of, I get bored of running in the same place. So many people are wearing their masks and doing such a great job. It's really encouraging to see the folks who are out on the trails following the asks of the town and the state and the country. But yeah, just encouraging. Yeah, oh good. Yeah, I've been out quite a bit and people are by and large using masks, which is great. Kind of giving distance when you pass somebody on the trail, which is great. Excellent. So anything else for Dave? Okay. So Stephanie, do you have anything you'd like to share today? Sure, I have a few things. I was contacted by Matt Buscup regarding a stream crossing. They need to replace a bridge. And so he was just looking for some guidance. So Dave and I will schedule a site visit with him and we'll certainly follow up with you all. But it is agricultural. We just want to make sure that he's following the best practices. So we'll give him some information, but we'll go on site and meet with him. So we'll be following up with that and then I'll report back after we have the site visit. As far as the poor farm restoration project, I know that tentatively they were going to be on tonight, but they are actually, after your guidance, they are submitting a notice of intent for the whole, for the restoration as part of all of the agricultural work as well. So the restoration plan will be part of that. But I did manage to squeeze them on for the next meeting. So they will be coming in in a few weeks with that. So I got part of the application today. So enough to sort of feel like they're committed to being on the next agenda. And then just wanted to alert you to a few monitoring reports that are in your packet that you were linked to, a few for Aspen Heights and then one for 70 University Drive. And also wanted to alert you to the Atkins-Peach-Berry Hill stop order that was issued. It's a forest cutting project. And so they were ordered to stop cutting. And you are not required to do anything. I don't think it's, you know, we're going to, we're going to do a little more investigative work about, about that. But right now, the state is kind of on top of it. And they've ordered the stop work. And I don't know that there will necessarily be anything for the commission to take action on, but we will follow up and report back again with that information as well, if necessary. And then I was hoping Beth would be here. But there was a storm sore overflow. And then so I, on College Street, and so I also included that in your packet as well. That was mainly just a notification. Again, I don't think there's anything for you to follow up on that particular piece. But if Beth is here or when Beth arrives for the other project, at some point, you know, at the end of that, if you want to ask her for more information, she'll be able to supply it. South University Drive is getting fairly active now. Yes. Okay. Excellent. So any questions for Stephanie? Okay. So I think that the next thing on our list is the minutes to review them. So I don't know if people had had a chance. So I think those, what were those from February 24th? Yes, and I have them, I can put them up. And so if people can take a look at those, if you haven't already, when people are good with them, they're fairly concise. I took a quick peek at them and they looked okay from my perspective. The only Stephanie, just for you, I don't have a hyphen in my name. It's just two names. Okay. That's like not the biggest deal. But I will remove the hyphen. Thank you. Not a problem. By the way, did you people get the signatures you required for that document that had to be signed? You know, I didn't sign it. Yes, we did, Larry. I was the second person to sign. So I know there was two, but I don't know who won. Yeah, I think we're, I think we're all set, Larry. We got the majority of the commission to sign it and that's what was required. So I appreciate that. Well, I'm driving again now, so I can begin getting out and doing things. So also just kudos for that effort. That was so like smooth and efficient and like I was three, three seconds done. It was great. Yeah, I had to wait a whole minute and she was very poetic and I'm like, it's crazy. Maybe a minute. Yeah. Okay. So I don't know if people are still looking at minutes or if we want a motion to accept. I move we accept the minutes for February 24th, 2021. Second. Okay, so voice vote. So Anna. Hi, Larry. Hi, Jen. Hi. And I for me as well. So minutes are done. Okay. So we are a little ahead of schedule at this point. So so we have our 730. We can't start that one. So Kate and Kenny, just to let you guys know, we cannot start that one until 730. We do have an issue though with that one in that we don't have quorum. And so we can't really talk about it, but we can just talk about I think we could talk about what we're going to talk about. And so we don't have quorum. And so Jen and Larry, have you been here for the other hearings related to Amherst? I think so. Okay. Yeah, I was here. Yeah. But it's still an insufficient number. I mean, so sorry, Brett, do you have so you have four of you, which is a quorum, and you just need the majority of the quorum present. Anna, were you not? I work for Amherst College. Yeah. So she has to abstain. And so if we vote on anything, the ruling that we got from council was that it is a majority of the members, not a majority of the people present need to vote for it. There's a little consternation about that. Okay. So Kate, yeah. So I'll, so Kate, can somebody like Kate speak? We just have to be careful here because we can't open this hearing gets a little awkward. So thanks. Thanks, Brett. Can you hear me? We can, Kate. I was just going to say that maybe would it be possible that we present information just just for your information with the understanding that you don't have enough people to vote on anything formal, but at least we can have a discussion. We can definitely do that. The issue is also going to be that for those members who are not here today, does anybody remember the name of the rule, the Marshall rule or something? There's some rule that we have. It's the Marshall rule. Whoa. Wow. That's amazing. And so everybody needs to be not present, but they have to at least go back and review what was happening. Or the material has to be presented again. So both are definitely possible, Kate. So yeah. So we definitely can present. We can have you present tonight. That will work again, but we have to wait five minutes. Great. Okay. Thanks. Okay. And so Kenny, did you have something that you wanted to say? So Stephanie, could you just like allow Kenny to speak real quick? Sure. Hi, Kenny. Hey, how's it going? Going well. I just wanted to, you know, I saw everybody talking about us. So I just wanted to pop in. That's it. I realized we still have to wait five minutes, but I just, I'm here. Okay. Excellent. Sounds good. Okay. So I am just looking down our agenda items. And so we have, and Akins already got dealt with the storm overflow. When Beth comes, she can deal with that. Beth is here actually now. Do you want to let Beth just speak to it real quickly? It'll probably fill up your five minutes. Yeah, that'd be perfect. So. Okay. I'm allowing you to talk, Beth. Hello, Beth. Yep. So we have the storm, the sanitary sewer overflow, that beautiful topic that crossed our desk. So would you mind just giving us a quick overview on what it is? It was in our packet, so most of us have saw it. Looks like it's been resolved at this point, so there's probably not much to do. Right. And this is South Whitney and College Street? Is that 100 College Street? So probably somewhere around there. Yeah. Yeah. It's that house that's right at the intersection of there. Yeah. So let me try and remember that. That was earlier in the week. I believe what happened there was there was something having to do with the service line connecting to the main for that building and it caused a backflow and a manhole surge. Right, right. So like the northwest corner of that building and sewage, the majority of the sewage actually ended up in their basement, unfortunately. It came along the foundation of the building on the north side of the building and quite a bit of it went into their basement. That's how we found out about it, they called. And then some of it did come across the north side of the building down South Whitney into like a catch basin right there near South Whitney and College Street. And I can't recall the volume. I don't know if you guys have the form there in front of you, the volume that was estimated. I have it actually. I can put it up if you 300 gallons, Beth. Yeah, 300 gallons. And I, I believe most of that ended up in the basement. There was some flowage around the building and into the catch basin. These are my favorite conversations. Oh, yes, good stuff. That's what we don't need meetings on. I know, I'm literally like, well, we're done now. Yeah. So yeah, so that's what happened then. What they do about that is the flusher truck will come immediate. I think this happened at night, in fact, and they had to tow, they had to tow a vehicle so that they could get the flusher truck back to where that manhole is at 11 o'clock at night or something. And they, they just pump out between manholes. They, and I think they did that whole line. They actually did the siphon again because the siphon is upstream of that. So they did a few sections of the sewer line, cleaned it out. And then in terms of the basement, that ends up actually going to the health department. And I think Ed Smith often gets involved when basements get sewage in them. Like if it's just a service line and it's not a main, then it doesn't involve DPW that ends up more with the health department. So yeah, so that, that was that scenario. And then they always, you guys are probably interested, they always spread lime, which, you know, breaks the, it kills the bacteria. That's the purpose of putting the lime down. And they, in this case, I saw that they had spread it along South Whitney and on the north side of that building. You know, they cleaned it up as best they can with the, with the snuffer truck. And then they spread lime. And the back truck also got stuck in the, in this process. Like there are a lot of vehicle, vehicle. Of course, just to make it interesting. Has this site happened before? This particular site? Yes. And not that particular manhole, not since I started with DPW. And they were saying that it was traditional wipes and grease and toilet paper type of thing. So yeah, don't flush wipes. Don't flush wipes. Don't dump grease. And don't dump grease. Correct. Grant, I was just going to make a comment. And again, Beth probably knows where I'm going, but you know, in my time with the down, there are two areas where we consistently have sewer related issues. One is, you know, the area where this backup happened, right? So from Amherst College, East down to the East Village is one. The other one is really down in South Amherst, closer to actually to Hickory Ridge Golf Course. Those are two pretty, pretty consistent areas. But again, you know, when we're talking about the Fearing Brook, this is all in the Fearing Brook watershed, right? So, you know, DPW does a great job and gets there right away and cleans up. But it's, you know, I often think, what else is going on in that area? So, you know, Beth and I have had a couple of meetings with various folks and researchers. And our goal is to kind of do more research in that area to figure out what's going on, you know, with sewer connections, private and public and, you know, more data is a good thing. So we need to get more data in that between College Street and Main Street. We need, and Amherst College, we need to get more information for sure. So, Dave, I think we had talked about this and I'm trying to remember if it was Beth or Erin that I talked to around Fearing Brook and the project with like community engagement around Fearing Brook. And this was part of it about not flushing wipes and not dumping grease. And I'm curious if that's coming back up at all in the future around community engagement specifically relating to Fearing Brook? Is that on the horizon in any way? And is this part of, and gently part of it? Yeah, well, those topics are things that wastewater deals with all the time. You know, they have annual mailings that they send out specifically targeting fog, which is fat soils and grease, and just, and wipes and all that. They're, they'll target specific areas to sometimes apartment complexes and things, but around Fearing Brook, I know they've tried to target some of the commercial businesses in terms of grease. And I don't know if you're talking more about the Fearing Brook project or more about the wastewater department, but in both cases we should be doing some public outreach about it. But yeah, there's that information. There's plenty of flyers, I guess, and stuff around and over the years we keep pushing that. I think there was just something on the town web page that was directed towards, I think it was directed toward businesses, not private, that was about fog basically, fat soils and grease, and wipes too. It just, we keep reiterating it in different forms, you know, trying to get the message across. Yeah, and Brett, I did notice that Kenny's hand is up. I'm not sure if that's an old. No, it's been up the whole time. Yeah, I think it was the Fearing Brook project that this was in relation to, and I'm not, I don't, we can get back to this. I just, I was remembering that we had talked about it the last time there was, there was some issue with, with Fearing Brook and the need for, for a different form of community engagement around it. And so I was just curious if this was tied in at all, or could be tied in at all to that. Yeah, ideally I think we'd have a comprehensive plan, you know, Beth and I and others, Stephanie and Erin and others are working on this floodplain restoration project. But ideally you'd really have a much more comprehensive approach working with, you know, students at the college, downtown restaurants and businesses, residents and we might get there. Yeah, just a lot of work and we are all, you know, there's, there's definitely some, some space between our efforts to work on the restoration and then the outreach and as Beth said, you know, DPW staff do the best they can to do the outreach piece to businesses and residential units, but there's still work that we could do. It's just, is there time and energy to do it, but I'm not quite sure what they do, but the people in the yellow jackets that say I am Amherst, that little thing, is that something that we can get them involved in doing? Those are mostly, those are our COVID ambassadors. I don't think, I think that's a bit of a stretch to take them away from their work, educating people about masks and social distancing and parties and we're actually entering what we think is going to be a very busy time for them as the weather warms. So we'll see. Okay. Okay, so anything else on fog? So that was a new one for me. Yeah, I almost, I went where they almost said to Anna, we'll keep plugging, but that didn't sound. Let's look at the fog or something. Yeah. Okay. So thank you, Beth. And so yeah, we'll be, so we're going to deal with our 730 Beth and then we'll come back for our 735, which is yours. Okay. So if Kate and Kenny, you guys are both still on, and so I have after 730, so we can now officially continue our request for determination and this is for bridge replacement at Amherst College. As I mentioned before, we do not have quorum tonight or we have quorum. So we have four people. So it is an official meeting, but we don't have four people who are eligible to vote on this one. So Anna has to abstain because she is an Amherst College employee. And so Kate, I think what you were saying is that you would like to proceed and make a informational presentation. We can still have some dialogue, but we will need to, we can't vote tonight, or I guess technically we can vote, but we wouldn't be able to pass anything. So Kate or Kenny, would either of you like to give us an update about where we are at and either you or we can ask Stephanie to share materials as well? Absolutely. So yes, would it be possible to, I don't see on my Zoom screen right now, a screen share option. Now, Brett, we put everything in a PowerPoint. So if you would be able to let us in, we could try to present some of the things. Yep, I'm just making sure that you're in as a panelist. So just give me one moment here. Yep, I do not have that power. I do. Kenny, I've just made you a panelist and Kate, I'll make you one as well. So you both have the ability to present now. Hey, there we are. Okay. Are we, are we good to start? Yes, please go ahead. And just to start, if you can just reiterate who you are and just provide a brief background, which I think is what the PowerPoint will do. Sure. Yeah. Kenny here and Kate as well from Amherst College, we're putting together a, in as part of the college's bicentennial, we've been tasked with some work on our sanctuary trails. What we're here to talk about is the work around four bridges as they pertain to those trails. And can everybody see that? Yes, we can. Great. Okay. All right. So same as last time, here are the four sites. Site one to the west, site two to the south, three and site four over the Fearing Brook. Here we go. This is all just a recap of everything we talked about last time. I think everybody with respect to Stephanie, were you here in the last meeting? No. Okay. So I'll go over a few of those. So we, back in December, we submitted our RDA, Brett and I already forget his name, but somebody else from the Conservation Commission came and met us for a hearing and site visit, along with Aaron. We had our first meeting. We were given a continuance. And the biggest thing we've continuously run into with this project is the required lengths of the bridges take them structurally into something that costs significantly more than we ever anticipated. And I think regardless of the outcome of all this, I don't believe that the bicentennial project itself will be able to fund what we're looking to do. And we're probably going to ultimately end up pushing a lot of this work back at least a year. We're probably going to have to search for capital funds as far as the college is concerned and go through a different funding process. So here is the first bridge. Once again, this is the one far to the east. I'll just kind of cruise through these because we have a list of measurements at the very end of the slideshow. But just some general overviews, this one would, all the bridges are to be lengthened and raised to pull them out of the resource areas. This is the one to the south, not Fearing Brook, but closest to Fearing Brook and then over Fearing Brook. I'd like to make a note while not any of the replacements will likely happen in the immediate future. One of the things we did want to seek guidance on from the commission was whether or not we have the ability to, in the interim period, make structural repairs to this bridge. It's definitely the, in the most disarray, as you can see from this picture, it's kind of collapsed in on the left hand side and is certainly a walking hazard at this point. Are we allowed to repair stringers and make this safe? Yeah, so Stephanie, or maybe Dave, I mean, do you have any guidance? I mean, this is a safety issue at this point and I so, can we do it as an emergency cert or something along those lines? Sorry, depending on what you're doing, if you're working just on the structure itself and you're not moving any soil or changing the footprint of it and you're just working on the bridge, is that what you're talking about, Kenny? That's exactly right, yes. I don't think you need to do anything if you're just working on the bridge. You just have to make sure that you're not leaving any materials behind because you're not causing erosion by doing that work. So you just have to be careful about where you're not getting anything into the resource area. That makes sense. Yeah, on the opposite side, obviously the stringer is cracked and we basically just like to pull that out, replace it with one and maybe even beef it up with a second one to once again just make this walkable. That means that you're going to take out the stringer that goes the whole length though? No, they're in eight foot sections. Okay. So we'd only take out the middle eight foot piece and then replace it. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying. Your question was would that affect the piece of wood that touches either bank? It would not touch that at all. Yeah, I would add, I think that's a great solution and obviously this is a safety issue and we don't want anybody to get hurt out there. So I think that's a great solution. Awesome, thank you very much. It's really a carpentry, you know, it's a carpentry project at this point. Let me just do not affect the resource area. That makes perfect sense. Just as a FYI, I mean even if it did and if it is a safety issue, again, we do have other ways for going about that and so an emergency certification if it is truly a safety issue would be another route that we could go. Okay, excellent, thank you. Here we have our breakdown of bank measurements, bankfull measurements, proposed bridge lengths, whether or not they'll include handrails. I believe Kate passed this along to Breton Aaron, so if you want I can read through this if not, everybody has it so we know we know it's there. Other notes, depending on what style bridge we go with, each bridge would either sit on the diamond piers as recommended by the committee previously or we've also explored eight by eight timbers that would be just sit on each end, they'd be pressure treated. And let's see, I think that's four of them and yeah at this point we're just exploring which style of bridge we really want to go with. We're waiting on a couple of quotes but the lengths would be the same regardless. It would really only affect how they sit at the end and if we can replace any in the near future or if it's once again about a year out or so but these are a couple of the different styles we're looking at and then here's a potential design submitted by Conservation Works and then yeah the last piece is it was recommended to us that we hire biologists to search for climbing fern in the resource areas and I guess we're unsure on our part as to what the timeframe of that is in relation to the project is approval contingent upon final results at which point we could be obviously quite a period away from where we would meet with you folks again to seek approval if we're waiting on that. Yeah what we'd probably do with that Kenny all dependence on if this how we move forward with this but this could be part of the order of conditions or other pieces that we add and so we might have a requirement that the survey is done you know within X number of months before work begins or some timeframe so that does not need to be done now because if you do that survey now and then you go back in you know you don't actually start the project for two years it doesn't make a lot of sense. Yeah so that makes perfect sense so we could get a you know approval with contingencies. Oh there's always orders of conditions so yeah don't worry about that at all. Can I just make one quick comment on that Kenny and I appreciate that you know that last slide um in my experience with bridge projects trail projects always overestimate the impact area so when you're talking about a the climbing fern or wood turtles these projects you need you know they're not huge we're you know let's let's be honest they're not you know sidewalk projects or something like that but things get trampled it's just you know you get volunteer I don't know if um students will be doing any of this work but you got to kind of overestimate your your project area so I'm channeling Aaron here and Aaron will be back as you move through this this uh this project and so every time you know when I've worked with volunteers you think the project area is so many square feet and then you get 12 people down there and they're moving they're going to get lumber they're going to get hammers they're they're putting things together the project area just needs to be pretty generous and that way you know you study an area make sure the fern is not there and everybody is happy the natural heritage program is happy and and the commission is satisfied so I'm just a I think project areas tend to grow and things get trampled by accident. That makes sense when when we present the I assume we'll eventually have to present those findings should we kind of flag and picture the areas in relation to the resource areas as to what we've determined to be the working areas does that make sense yeah I think you'll want that you'll want that on on your plans absolutely okay that makes sense yeah and I don't know if anybody has a better understanding of the um the natural history of climbing fern more so than I every time I've seen it it's been in sort of semi open areas most of the bridges that I'm familiar with here they're in fairly closed canopies where at least for my untrained eye they don't look like they are good habitat except for the one that is closest to Amherst College closest to the western most that one's a little bit more open and the other ones so I mean that doesn't mean that it obviously we still need to you know do the surveys for it but they don't look like great habitat for climbing fern again I've only seen it a couple of times I think Aaron had mentioned that um it had been found in the right of way for the power company and that's probably why it was included in this I think they did include language that said they did not believe that we would find it but okay be safe and look yeah it would be helpful to us if there are any records of that of wherever source did find the climbing fern too that that might help us I don't know if you all would have those records they also get a little funny when we're dealing with endangered species where sometimes they don't like those records to get released so for specific locations so it gets a little funny maybe Stephanie could help out there but typically in my experience you you present your project area natural heritage would review that in more detail um yeah I'm trying to walk that through would and then and my recollection too is that that down near the power line crossing which is kind of on the eastern end end of the of the sanctuary is is better habitat as I recall Brad and I think the fern has been found out in that area but it's it's kind of a yeah it's kind of a unusual relationship with natural heritage um I don't know Steph can you you know my experience is that they're not going to tell you exactly where it is you know they'll tell you I mean sometimes you're you know you'll just know that there's habitat but you don't even know what that habitat is until you actually apply to do work and then they'll identify what it is but generally it's not just broadcast so you know I don't think you'll find out exactly where I think what they want you to do is just to make sure that there's no more where you're planning to do work and if you do find it then they want to know about it and in terms of uh hiring a biologist are there a certain criterion credentials we should be looking for Kate do is there any faculty that ring a bell and if not could the commission provide us a a list of local people local vendors we could look at yeah when the time comes I don't think you're quite ready for that right now are you I would I would think no we'll go look right now I don't know that we'll find anything later later this spring easily you know through Stephanie's contacts in my contacts and Aaron's contacts we can easily give you some some some folks who are botanists or consultants with with strong botanical backgrounds and happy to do that yeah be great be careful with some of the people that we use because we like you know some of the people that we've used in the past are the ever sourced people which they know their stuff but I mean those are you know large regional big companies that you know may not fit your budget you know very competent no doubt but you know they kind of work at a different scale so we have those folks but then there are more niche let's say um folks that also do excellent jobs so uh we should be able to provide a list kind of across that board and you're free to choose who you like but just I wonder if there's a way we could utilize or work with UMass extensions in some capacity might be worth looking at but that's all I have um I don't know Kate has anything to add to that oh thanks I think that's really helpful about the climbing fern I think that some of the other things we were looking for feedback on are the design so the contractors both asked questions about whether railings were required and how the town feels about railings when the bridges are of a certain height so that would be one thing we're looking for feedback on yeah I don't know if we I mean so this is on private property so I don't think that you know I mean our jurisdiction is just related to the wetlands itself um so I don't think that we actually have we definitely don't have purview over that um and we can provide suggestions on what we do on our own land but that's you know just suggestions and up Dave you have something I think it's completely up to you Kate and Kenny it's really you know what the college feels comfortable with in terms of safety we have a really a mixed bag out there I would love to have more railings actually on some of our um some of our bridges and and we're kind of working in that direction but it you know it comes down to a prioritization and you're finding as we often do that a small what you think is a small project kind of whoa when you actually get into it it gets more costly and time consuming so um handrails depending on the design too can be added later if the budget doesn't support them but um I think it's the commission has no authority to have you put handrails on these it's really a judgment call for the college no you Kenny you mentioned also UMass extension scotch acts and might be somebody who who may you know there may be some connection you can make with Scott in in terms of you know uh help with the climbing front so I think the railings are completely up to you awesome thank you yeah and what you were asking Kate was as far do we have any sort of input on the design I think that what you guys presented today is extremely responsive to primarily errands but other people's suggestions on the design as well it looks like you know at least from a general sense that all of those were incorporated um you know at some point you know knowing which design is going into which location you know so we'll need a little bit more detail on that but uh and maybe that's in there I just missed it but um at least the overall designs they made sense to me yeah we didn't agree with that it seems like even like some of the bankfull wits were oversized even um so it looks like you guys added a safety margin in there because I know Fearingbrook has a much smaller bankfull than what was listed so I appreciate that and I think they look uh great I mean they'll last for a really long time as designed in my experience awesome yeah that that was the idea is basically when we went out there and looked at them it seemed to make the most sense just to use the existing bridge width as the bankfull because all of them are kind of down enough that you know a very conservative bankfull estimate is the length of the bridge right now right right exactly yeah a lot of them are incised as the word so they've like the rivers have cut down so they're steep narrow banks um yeah so it can be difficult to estimate so yeah appreciated okay look good okay um from the commission standpoint is there a preference on the diamond piers versus the timbers no I think that's really up to up to you to choose either I think that they're both fine um I've heard a lot of good things about the diamond piers is all I can say but you know that's not again that's not really within our purview so we're just trying to minimize what the impact is to the wetlands perfect you know explicitly what we're trying to do so I'm not trying to skirt it Kenny but just no that's not that's exactly what I'm looking for I appreciate it so and again I think you're going to answer this by saying not within your but um ramps versus step up and and over do we have feelings about that versus anything I mean that's going to depend I mean the only thing that um from our perspective that might matter would be trying to again minimize the impact that's on the ground so if one takes up a lot more area than the other you know we would be in favor of one that takes up less room unless there is reason to do otherwise so you know if you're trying to ADA or something that um you know then obviously a ramp is what you want but I don't think that's what you're doing out there um and so um you know besides that just the less impact the better would be our preference I would just add if I could read that um again we have a we have many dozens and dozens of bridges over small and large rivers and and they're not all perfect by any means but um I will say that ramps the challenge you face with ramps um and many people like that if you're running you know um runners like them but they do get slippery and people slip in the winter they slip they get leaves on them in the fall they get moss or mold on them sometimes so they do become slippery and I I do hear from a lot of people that that slip on them there's lots of things you can do to address that but they're all mostly temporary people put down um shingles you know they put down uh uh shingles uh roof shingles and things of that sort so you know sometimes steps are just easier and those people who you know depending on what the the rise is um sometimes a couple of steps are easier and and those people who need to take their time will will go up the steps and those people who don't will jump over them or run over them so if you know cross training or something in in the sanctuary or running through so the other thing you got to think about is cross country skiers if you want them to be used in in the winter a ramp or you know is is better for cross country skiing snowshoeing than steps depending on the depth of the snow so again I think it's a decision the college you you all was planning for the college need to make yeah and a more permanent solution to um the ramps cleats would work better than some of the other ones and so those are just a little more permanent but those rip out too they're not they're not perfect okay that's great feedback I have skied in other parts of the sanctuary but I've never tried skiing where any of those bridges are so that might be a little scary yeah especially that one that went into don't try that one Kate I'm just wondering if um you all might help us understand what the next steps are and what is the best timing here because one thing that we're kind of running into is a chicken and egg problem where we can't quite get a quote from a contractor until we have approval for a final design and we can't quite figure out what the design should be until we you know know whether or not we can afford it and so what from your perspective what would the appropriate timing be yeah and so what we're going to be able to do next time assuming that we have quorum which I'm confident that we will it's very rare that we don't I'm not quite sure what happened tonight um and so this is definitely a oddity I can't remember the last time this happened Jen uh it was a while ago um it was like pre-covid like summer pre-covid so so yeah my apology I don't know I can't do that math long time ago well Leroy came out there to see everything so that's a good thing that he's seen it you know in person yeah yeah but in order for him to vote next time he'll either have to watch this this is being recorded so it's not a problem except it's kind of boring to watch but he'll either have to watch this or read the transcript or do something or you'd have to present again not a problem we just have to cover that base we will um and you know if there is somebody else so maybe Fletcher was at some of the last ones too I don't think Laura was but it could be mistaken I remember Fletcher being at the last time last time so um so what's going to happen next Kate is as soon as we have enough people we're going to be voting on the request for determination and so the request for determination is um what are the potential impacts here and is there a NOI that is required um and I can't remember what we had a sort of discussion about that and so I think that initially we had some discussion because Pete Westover was involved and so he was pushing for an RFD there were some back and forth about um why is it a request for determination and not an NOI and so we need to have a formal vote on that next time and so what could happen is it could be an outcome that yes we agree with this this and this but because it has certain constraints this should be an NOI and so at that point what happens is you file for an NOI and so it kind of continues um you'll have all your paperwork together so it's not a huge process at that point but it's a new hearing and you know we start that up again or what happens is we say okay an NOI is not required but we would like to see certain things the problem with a if we go that route we don't have as much um power going forward there's not as much strength NOIs have a lot of strength to them they're recorded on the deed um we can make sure that everything is going forward not that we don't trust the two of you by any means it just you know how what we're required to do by law what we swore him to do so um so that's what's going to be happening next time um so Stephanie was I mostly correct on that um yes yes excellent um and so Kate or Kenny does that make sense to the two of you um yes yes the the RDA can still have conditions though right I they can be conditioned but typically um determinations don't usually get recorded and you could I mean the the commission can have them recorded but it's not the same as um having an order of conditions that's you know automatically sort of tied to the deed and there's more of a chain um that follows the the um legal um documentation for the property so you know the commission you know if when you file a request for determination the determination is whether or not as presented to the the commission that this project could potentially have adverse impacts or there are um constraints around what you're doing that may require you to do a notice of intent instead of just you know um this request so you know I think partly because it's also in um habitat that it could you know that that in and of itself could have triggered that it it be an NOI so uh those issues being what they are could potentially dictate that they require a notice of intent but what it really comes down to at the end of the day not to sound too grandiose it's kind of within our purview um and so as a commission we can kind of say it goes one way or the other um because we also fully recognize that what you're doing is an improvement for the resource out there um so I mean there's no doubt about that as well so I mean that has to weigh in on our decision so it can go either way yep we have had the town do NOIs for bridges in conservation land like we've had to do NOIs for ourselves before so it um it does happen in situations like this that you do do an NOI just to let you know yeah but you know there's probably circumstances where it was you know a private landowner with one small bridge and we're like okay we're good to go and so it's kind of somewhere in between but yeah just as Jen was saying we're definitely not you know the town we hold to a very high level um and so yeah if it's the town we really were like yeah we're doing an NOI and we actually had the same council the same discussions with Pete Westover um about this and so he has a certain way that he pushed you guys or he um counseled you guys to go and so that understood understood last question is just if whichever one ends up happening how long are those sort of good for because as Kenny mentioned at the beginning we don't know about the budget it's good for three years three years okay you can also do extensions after that if um if required that's another thing you can't right you don't you don't get extensions with determinations determinations can't get extended whereas you can with an order of conditions so that that actually would work in your favor if they go that route and since you guys have worked all this out now just submitting the NOI and like kind of getting it set and then you could decide to do it in pieces you know like in a year one bridge could be replaced you know so I don't know um there wouldn't you wouldn't it wouldn't hurt you to move forward with the NOI process now I guess aside from you might be good for us to tell them there's a deadline I don't know if any members of the administration are listening but maybe it's good if we say we only have three years well with the NOI you can still say that it's a three-year deadline which is true you just don't have to say it can be extended Brad if I could I was just going to pick up on what Jen said and that was a good good reminder also to me and for Kate and Kenny as staff I often find myself because I'm trying to improve our trails and conservation lands so I'm held to the same or higher standard I the town so my staff and I need to come before the commission and I was thinking of these bridges that you want to improve and very similar to many situations we find ourselves in and so we we have filed numerous numerous NOIs through the years in fact it reminds me that we need to check on some orders of conditions because we filed a couple of years ago and I need to check on those dates but I also feel like to some degree I feel a little like if we could go back in time it might might you know and we can't but it might have been easier to kind of file the notice of intent and and be where you might be further along and knowing but I think you've done a lot of the work for the NOIs so it's from here out it's not really that onerous and then you get a clear order of conditions you get a three-year window and and away you go and and you can make that case to the to the to the administration here's what we need to do this right you want to do this once and you want to want them to last for 25 years you know everything you do you just want a long time frame and you don't want to come back and have erosion or have one of them blow out and then you're like oh my goodness we got to go back through this so kind of be one and done for 25 30 years so I hear you Dave I I hope I hope so I love that vision yeah and then we one thing we face is that two of these bridges were taken out by trees falling on them we really appreciate you guys are really going about this well so I think all of us appreciate that yeah thank you thank you so any other comments and also if there's anybody from the public who would like to comment on this you can use a little um little feature the raise hand feature okay um so I think what we need at this point is to have a formal motion so that it will be a continuation and so Stephanie do we have a date and a time March 24th I'm being safe here and saying 745 p.m okay and so for Kenny and Kate does that work for you what was the date one more time March 24th and in a few weeks hey do you think that's safe for the information we need to get from Lou uh it sounds like for for that we just need to be here because the conservation commission needs to decide whether or not they're gonna go with the RDA or that make that make sense yeah yeah yeah that's perfectly fine that fits perfect into my schedule yeah did I understand that right correct okay thank you guys so much for taking all the time to give us all this feedback and advice thank you very much yeah we recognize that we're not the most uh usually you get people that know what the process is supposed to look like so we appreciate your education too thank you uh well we appreciate you guys coming before us and yeah moving along it's definitely a convoluted process and if you don't do it in and out on a regular basis it's yeah it's confusing and we realize our topic is not as fun as town fog so thanks for having fun with us well we hope next time you were not in front of us about fog as well yeah nobody wants for a fearing breath yep okay thank you very much and so oh we need a vote though or a motion okay so I move that we continue the RDA for replacement repair four foot bridges on Amherst college property to March 24th at 745 so how to be you I think second okay so a vote on this so Larry hi Jen hi so Anna Dane and I for me as well and so even though it's not technically quorum that we have we just kind of move forward it's the best that we can do with this so thank you Kate and thank you Kenny and we will see you in a couple of weeks thank you okay so we are going to move on to our 735 agenda item which is a notice of intent and this one is for the town of Amherst Department of Public Works for construction of 9500 linear feet extension of drinking water so Beth um hello again so would you mind introducing yourself again um and giving us a brief summary of where we're at on this project and any updates that you have sure um sorry to interrupt Beth so Brett I wasn't here for the first meeting oops oh no oh so same issue of an update so we have and so okay so we have quorum issue again and so we have a couple of options here so one Jen did you happen to look at listen to the or I don't know if you can listen or I haven't seen it or listen or watch the recording from that meeting I did not I'm very sorry but one thing we've done in the past is if Beth gives enough of a summary I feel like I can pick it up and I will ask lots of clarifying questions if need be so I can be sufficiently informed to be a voting yep so that's the other option is that basically we quote-unquote restart the hearing and so you know Beth would have to you know present it and we'd have to you know go through as Jen is suggesting sufficient amount the other option is that we can postpone it um for two weeks uh in which case we will have quorum like again hopeful um so Beth do you have a preference because I think last time we were pretty close there were just a couple of issues related to particularly the um the stream it's not crossing going under whatever you call that um tunneling right yeah I don't mind giving another you know summary of the project for Jen um and if she wants I can I can bring up the whole plan set again but maybe I just start with a you know a general overview of it um if that works and then I can get into answering the questions that you everybody hit that the commission had at the last meeting that sounds great and if you can even start that Beth with introducing who you are again sure um Beth Wilson I work for Amherst DPW and this is a water main extension project under East Leverett Road in Amherst and Cushman Road and T. Waddle Hill Road in Leverett um it's about 7500 linear feet under East Leverett Road and 2000 linear feet in Leverett um um and the resource area is that the work goes into our is riverfront and boarding land subject to flooding and then buffer zone to PVW the work is mostly trenching um they'll be trenching it's about six feet wide seven feet deep is the estimate for the the trench for the whole length um so they'll be trenching and laying the water main they'll be doing more narrow trenching for the service lines and the hydrants that's really what the project entails and then there's they're going to be using directional drilling to go under the Cushman Brook um along East Leverett Road um there's erosion control all along there are areas of boarding land subject to flooding both to the north and south of East Leverett Road and parts and wherever there's um bordering lands whenever there's PVW there's erosion control so it's quite a bit of erosion control um they're proposing to use silt socks for the erosion control there's also um natural heritage endangered species it's both estimated and priority habitat on the eastern end of the project um so we've gotten we've gotten all the reviews that we need we have a letter from natural heritage and we have um DEP's review we've also we've been to the Leverett Conservation Commission we got approval from the Leverett Conservation Commission um I'm not sure if the Con Con has seen the order conditions from Leverett but I did forward it to Stephanie just just um for you to have but also tonight I can just go through the conditions that they had in their order of conditions if you're interested the only so all of the project is is temporary impacts it's the only permanent impacts are are a couple um of the hydrants so all of the hydrants are permanent impacts but only one of them actually falls in BLSF and I think two of them fall in riverfront so and and that's very small square footage I think in the NOI it was 27 square feet of permanent impact or something it's it's relatively small amount um what else can I tell you about the project um that's that's kind of the overall general idea of the project and the questions that the commission had last time uh the primary question really had to do with the directional drilling so if that's something that you're interested in Jenna I'm gonna talk a bit more about that um yeah so that's that's open to from the NOI so I'm I see what you're saying and it's making sense to me um okay and all the trenching is going right in the existing road so it's not going off of the roads it's not impacting anything additional yep I see that yep yep it's good and then it's very small sorry if you remind us Beth is there a is there a staging area for the project or not I can't remember what you said last time yeah um we're considering using the levered transfer station that's most likely where it's going to be okay okay all right yeah so um in terms of the directional drilling um I we did confirm a lot of the information about that um one thing that I know you were very interested in is sort of the the depths um and it was all surveyed and I'm going to pull up the uh plans on that last sheet we're going to zoom in a little bit on the cross section um of the directional drilling but the the depth from the stream bed to the pipe is going to is estimated to be between um 10 and 15 feet that was something everybody's interested in and the bore pits are going to be about 150 to 200 feet from the stream bank um and that section of pipe is going to be HDPE it's going to be plastic so it's a little bit more flexible so it can bend for that to be placed in sort of a curved distance um and we can look at the cross section again and it shows where it'll be connected to the iron pipe on either end but but it'll be a 12 inch HDPE in that section um and I share my screen oops yeah and so it's definitely a very robust pipe shall we say for the number of houses that it's current that it's planned for um sorry I was saying something and I I thought my push my spacebar was working but it wasn't working did you say that the the depth of the pipe below the bottom of the stream is 10 to 12 feet yes it'll be 10 to 15 feet from the bottom of the stream to the pipe okay can you guys see the screen yep all right so um yeah so this gets more into the method of directional drilling um and this is this is sort of standard directional drilling now um there's a a rig that's all set up to do it and it it bores and and this has a controls in the rig so that they know exactly where the the drill the little drill bit is the whole time and they can actually drive it you know to the right to the left whichever to go around say they find a boulder they need to go around or just so they know where it is and that it's in the right location as planned um so it drills through to the other side um and then they they ream it out to a size a little bit larger than what the pipe is so we're estimating you know the pipe is 12 inch so this is estimated the hole is going to be 14 to 16 inches in diameter um they ream it out going back and then they just pull pull the hdp pipe right through the hole so I think I think Larry had been asking about it the the water pipe being within a conduit and for water and sewer pipes there's no need for that you know you'd put a conduit in if you were putting in other fiber optic or electrical wiring but when you when you're just putting a pipe in you can just pull the 12 inch pipe um back through yeah well part of the question had to do with the fact that the last time it sounded like it was an un flexible pipe and I was asking questions about how you were going to get a stiff pipe through that thing and so now you're saying it's flexible that makes a lot of sense yeah yeah that'll be plastic piping yeah um and then this this is the cross section that's in the plan set um and I just highlighted a bit more of the information um so right here you can see they've they've surveyed the bridge area um and the abutments are about 13 feet down below grade so this is this is grade and then there's a 10 foot minimum from the bottom of the abutment to the top of the pipe so from below grade is about 25 feet total um and I'm just sort of estimating that the stream may be slightly above the bottom of the abutment so the distance between the stream bed and the pipe is going to be between 10 and 15 feet and then they have it's 12 inch hdpe for this for this section um over here you can see the sleeves that's where they would be connecting to the iron pipe and much more sense yeah so sorry I wasn't so clear about that at the last meeting sometimes it takes a little bit of reviewing things um I think that was all I really wanted to say about the directional drilling does anybody have any more questions about that no I think that does clarify a lot of it though and so right could I ask two quickies um one is Beth in relation to the directional drilling you I believe you mentioned and the possibility that they might have to if they hit water on either side of the uh if they hit the water table on either side or was that part of it is that or is my memory incorrect was there the possibility you might have to dewater the pits on either side of the kushman brook well there's the possibility that the trenches in general um may have to get um dewatered um you know in certain areas of the road in certain lower areas of the road and that's part of the dny right yeah yeah we talk we talk about about we've talked a little bit about dewatering the trenches this this part um you know most likely they're going to be this pipe is going to be below the water table because the water table in this area I'm assuming because it's a pretty wet area this you know the stream bed may be pretty close to the water table so below that most likely is going to be saturated but you know when you pull the pipe through you don't have to necessarily deal with too much water the dewatering would would just come as we're going along trenching if we hit a low area and the trench gets some water in it yeah um probably talked about this but is is there any chance you'll hit bedrock out there anywhere in this project you know the whole hillside on the on the north I think there's definitely some bedrock up there but I I'm not real I don't think so there's two there's they did a soil boring here they did a soil boring here and I haven't heard anything about any issues with bedrock um so I think they looked into that the last question I had is maybe more of a comment but um and I haven't read did you get a letter from natural heritage yet or no yeah we did and did they say anything could you tell just remind everybody what they said they would like to see a turtle protection plan put together before construction starts which is fine um I actually talked to them on the phone too about it and sort of what needs to go in it um and yeah that's what they would like to see they'd like it doesn't have to be a very complicated plan actually for this project they actually said that this project could technically be exempt um but it has run into that a little bit with the DEP review too um so she said she wants to have a biologist referred to in the document and she actually she gave me a name that ecotech did the delineation and there's somebody I think I have his name Scott Scott Morrison who works for ecotech who she said would be great um so he would train the contractors we set up a little training for the contractors so that they know what they're looking for and he would also be listed as a contact in case anyone does see a turtle um she also talked about covering um sand any sand piles and then good housekeeping kind of stuff needs to go in it but yeah she gave me a good idea of what needs to go in it and we'll do that prior to construction yeah we I haven't looked at that but maybe Steph and I could look at that yeah my one my one concern out there is that in my experience with turtles and box turtles which I think are the two target species out there on east Adelaide east Levitt road um I'm worried about the shoulder of the road like that's where you know oftentimes contractors park and and let's you know let's just pull up and put our rig over there and and that's I actually often where wood turtles and box turtles kind of hesitate before they cross roads and so I just yeah I just want to be kind of mindful of that and and I know this will be um you know you said there'll be a you know there's going to be you're working on this whatever hundred foot section so you're doing the trenching but I'm hopeful that the plan will include like you know doing a sweep on that hundred feet you're you're doing but not parking cars 250 feet up on the shoulders and and really kind of I think the chance of of kind of killing a wood turtle or a box turtle on the sides of east east Levitt road increased dramatically with with all the potential for vehicles like where where are all the contractors going to park and and that kind of thing so yeah okay yeah no um turtles tend to be attracted to construction sites because of all the the dirt and you know well um the timing of this too yeah like June or July yeah okay right I'm hoping that you're seeing this document the natural heritage okay it's hard to tell sometimes because I can't tell if you're looking at my desktop or my yeah we can see okay good I see it all right yes thank you Dave so anything else Dave or okay what about other commissioners any comments um so particularly you Jen I think the rest of us had a chance last time to ask ours granted if you have more go for it but I can't come up with any more I keep answering them myself by looking at the plans um so I'm pretty comfortable with a great level of detail in the plans okay so I'm gonna um see if there's anybody in the public who has comments then I'll come back to the commission we could talk about um order of conditions so if there is anybody from the public who would like to comment on this one you can just use the zoom feature of raise your hand okay so I'm not seeing any at this point so Stephanie do you have any recommendations for um order of conditions besides just our standard boilerplate sure so a few special conditions um that a dewatering plan be submitted prior to work and um the wood turtle protection plan be submitted prior to work and that the um sorry now I am borrowing from Leverett and I'm sorry I didn't get that into your packet I didn't see it till um just a little while ago sorry Beth I missed that um okay let's see sorry I'm just um I'm borrowing from Leverett here so just give me a second yes will you look that I just have a quick question for Beth uh related to dewatering last time you described to us what the plan was for dewatering so is there already plan in there or is a separate plan need to be provided um right now it's in the plan set is is um it's just sort of a design for a sedimentation basin okay