 And Mick what's up? nothing Podcast oh really? Yeah, it sounds fun. You want to do it? I could do pot I could try I could try pot. I'm dressed for it, but sure Hey everybody welcome to the Zeldin former podcast my name is Adam and that opening was brought to you by brand and thanks so much for that If you have any of your own topics theme song submissions or anything of that nature Please send us to us at Zeldin former podcast at gmail.com that's Zeldin former podcast at gmail.com Here's the news for this week After 25 years Nintendo is bringing back the Nintendo World Championship and Reggie is finally confirmed his participation in announcement video on YouTube in Spiritual successor news ukulele is making serious strides with the stretch goals as it passes the two million dollar mark in the ten days that's been up and In its first day Castlevania successor bloodstained reached almost all of its stress goals at one million dollars The project is headed by another that Koji Igarashi creator of the series and one of the pillars of the metroidvania genre and In Nintendo news tired of not knowing what day of the month it is then having to look at a boring normal calendar to find out Well, look no further than this legend is elder 2016 wall calendar available now for pre-order on Amazon and President and CEO of Nintendo's Satoru Iwata held a Q&A session on Saturday and mentioned how he'd like to make the NX console region free It seems that this is happening on a daily basis now a 17-year-old has just beat the any percent speedrun record for Ocarina of Time and Earlier this week a video is posted of two men in jetpack soaring over the skies of Dubai Also, this quest is far from over King's quest for recent revival title has released its cast list that boasts some incredibly high-ranking actors The ratchet and clank movies cast continues to grow as well-known voice actors and film actors join the fold Ubisoft has finally shown off its latest addition to the assassin's creed family the newly titled assassin's creed syndicate was shown off during a live stream this Tuesday and For those of you who still have some club Nintendo coins left over good news The soon-to-be-gone reward program just slice some of their prices nearly in half You can get stuff like Majora's Mask 3d messenger back for 500 coins All of this and more on this week's podcast once again. I'm Adam your host as always and this week I'm joined by Hey, kiddies. I'm back and I'm Caleb for those of you who don't know and I heard there's Metro Udvania talk, so I'm here for that Glad to have you. Thanks Hey, it's Jeff. I'm back this week and It's good to be here kind of last-minute call but always up for a podcast more or less You sound so delighted We Speaking of delighted, I'm Mick Lauer rice pirate from sleepy cabin. I make cartoons and fart jokes and some podcast stuff and Yeah, it's it's good to be here to talk about some zeldas and some links and some Ganondorf's I'm definitely down for some of the animals Do you think anyone calls them like Dorfels or something the Dwarfs Dorks Dorks Ganon Dorks Yeah, you're getting dork just like in high school. Yeah, it's always so angry. Yeah Getting back at the bullies. Yeah, the Highlands never let me play in their highly end games He's Rudolph the red-nosed reindeer in my imagination for some reason. They all called him a red skin and like There is a surprising number of racist theories in the Zelda universe like the fan theories like the highly in civil war and stuff It's terrible One or the other I like what I like is a his his color scheme for when he dresses. Oh And like Hyrule Warriors Just in generally 10 doesn't he wear a lot of black he wears a lot of black Yeah, it's like cool like sort of texturized like little lettering and details on all good in my book all good in my book Ganondorf question. Yeah, I have a question for Mick. Oh, no, do you watch hold on This just popped in my head and I don't know how you'll take it, but have you ever watched the show Parks and Recreation? I've I've seen Clips of it and I'm very aware of it, but I have not sat down and watched okay Adam. You've watched it, right? I have I have not seen last season because who would decide that's okay That's okay. I was just thinking he sounds like the radio talk one of the radio talk show guys from that. Oh my god So basically like is this a compliment or should I be very angry? It was it's like those like morning zoo radio show hosts like hey, welcome to wacky in the bud My rage meter is climbing. Let's move on to the first topic Don't tell him the name of it. Yeah By Google this I might I might go Ganondorf on you Don't tell him the name of this. This is just I thought it would be funny, but now I regret it Let's go to something I Like sell the news maybe he's like those guys after they do the episode what's funny about that and I'm sorry to get off topic I guess But that's funny thing about that that like sort of bit in that show is that they're like these two horrible people on the radio Show, but like outside of it. They're really nice and actually very intelligent. They're like, yeah Yeah, let's uh, do you see that new? Ted talk. Yeah, I loved it. It was really fascinating actually When they do their show they're all like Look at this poop I don't like Pringles. Yeah, but tell me what you do like. Do you like Zelda? I do like Zelda Would you like to talk about Zelda? Yeah, please continue. All right. Let's start with a fan topic this week. We never really do that Jeff is so excited because he saw the fan topic for this week I'm excited because I know because I know I Think I can predict your response. I think I can make me around the bush a lot here by the way We have two fan topics. Thank you to those of you who send it fan topics this week, by the way But here it is. Hey guys. A beat in the bush is worth two in the birds. What? Just just read. Okay. Thank you Caleb Hey guys, thanks for the great show Wind Waker is the first Zelda game I beat and I want to replay it But I'm torn. Should I play the new game plus mode on my Wii or play Wind Waker HD on Wii U? There are advantages to both but I wanted your guys opinion Which is the better version of the game and Adam the answer isn't none of the above. Oh Wow, I didn't see that part of it. I like this person already. Thanks, Aaron Troy Thank you, Aaron Troy for giving me no answers to say Aaron new game plus. You're welcome Actually, that's surprising cuz I'm gonna go with Wind Waker HD It begins already Aaron my advice is don't wait to tell her. Okay She is waiting for you Just make the move Okay, I promise this is the best decision. You're gonna make it's not if There's no ifs to this you just walk right up to her when you see her tomorrow at the cafeteria You sit right down next to her and you tell her exactly What you want to do with her? And we're talking Wind Waker HD I want to play four swords adventure with you. Yeah four swords. You want to smack some four swords around with her These are my three buddies Hank, Ted, Phil. You want to play four swords? Don't do that. It's terrible Episode is off to a bad start I'm enjoying it already. It's my favorite podcast yet It's my favorite anything with Caleb My I think I'm gonna say when Waker HD because you skip like half of the nonsense that goes on the regular game Cuz like there's all this like Reason I don't like Wind Waker is the fetch questing So much fetch questing get on this boat Travel this place pick up this item now do it 40 more times with no actually you don't like video games With no actual impact on the story. I am genuinely I am genuinely curious like you know Zelda they like to change up the formula for the kind of gameplay that you have the look right feel yeah, and and I'm curious Do you guys cuz you guys would know better than I would if they were ever planning on revisiting that style revisiting that tiny little Link with the big head and actually the thing about that is that that's really just the toon link style Which happens a lot four swords adventures Wind Waker Minish cap and a few other games have all had that same Aesthetic style just not in the same sort of medium so instead of 3d it'll be in 2d and right right restricted to handheld Yeah Actually spirit tracks has the 3d sort of style, but it has a 2d sort of game. It's weird It kind of falls in the middle. Yeah But it's kind of an angle. Yeah But I actually recently started playing Wind Waker HD after a long hiatus from Wind Waker because I played through the original But I'm gonna have to say Wind Waker HD even though I haven't finished it for the for one reason alone when I played the original Wind Waker, I loved it. I played it with one of the best friends We had a great time and then we got to the Triforce fetch quest Didn't finish the game. Yeah, that's why yeah, I'm numbered couldn't get through it It's the exact same reason. I don't like it. It's just like it's not fun to fetch quest Especially in a game like Zelda where it's like you expect a story with everything you do Although sometimes the kind of frail one it's it. There's still one there. Like you still have purpose Can I change my answer? Sure Twilight Princess instead That's your answer for everything. You're right. It's not a bad answer Just like Twilight Princess. It's not a bad answer Um, but I mean At the very least it's not a bad answer You know, it's you know, it's funny. I could never like I remember the first time I played it one thing. I'd like to ask Jeff Yes Are you gonna we're gonna finish that thought? We're gonna you had a thought too and I mean I was not gonna wait it kind of waited for you Jeff go first Okay, let's not have this politeness battle. I'm sorry Um, I wanted to ask um, what was the what was the person's name who submitted the fan topic? Aaron Aaron aron Uh, I would want to ask Aaron. Um, does he already own win waker hd and does he already own a wii u because then? Yeah, yeah, I think he has it. All right, let's wait for his response. It's pretty straightforward Yeah, let's wait for his response right now. Um, because if he does own those sure, but if he has to spend like, uh, 50 bucks on a new wii u game to get that Maybe not the new game plus could do it for him. Um, obviously there's a lot of nice things in win waker hd It looks, you know prettier, but if you're gonna if you're gonna buy another zelda game buy a different zelda game in the franchise Play something else like try something else. I guess and if you want that style again, try spear tracks Aaron look, I'm gonna have a heart to heart with you There's a lot of bloom if you want to be able to see your video game Then you should play the game cue if you don't want to play train in the background If you don't it's not it. I don't whatever You bring a heart to heart with him I feel like train is appropriate and you ruin it continue Um, but I was actually gonna say, um Today I was actually thinking about playing some zelda and I was gonna play win waker hd But I was like, you know what? I still need to play a link to the past So I booted up a link to the past now. I'm three now. I beat three of the I beat the first three Wasn't that we didn't start that together? Okay, we started that together But you were just like let's go in circles and I'm like adam. I haven't played this game I want to enjoy and you're like I played it before so I'm just gonna run in circles Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You've never played link to the past. Yeah, I don't know how I'm on his I'm on mixed bad lists. No, you're not. It's just like I thought this was a zelda podcast. That's like That's like a like we're doing a religious podcast and you're like, Jesus like it's just like It seemed like one of the besides the first one I think link to the past is like one of the quintessential zelda games that brought it over I mean, I think that that really put the stake In the sell sold the franchise to the west. Yeah, definitely It's the third game in the franchise and after a venture of language didn't sell really, which didn't do very well garbage Yeah, right. Yeah, but three when they came back with that. Yeah I'm sorry Oh, I was gonna say uh two pot two podcasts in a row. We've made explicit uh bashing of zelda. Oh, yeah Of adventure of link. Yeah, it's funny because our editor in chief Nate is a big fan of adventure of link. That's probably he's not really though. He's not though He's he's a contrarian. He's trying to be a hipster. He's trying to be cool Nobody likes that game. It's a terrible game. Nate. He's calling you out. You better listen to this podcast fight fight. I mean I mean name what you know what I'll shut up if you can name one actual good thing about it You know besides the name the downward the sword strike the fact that I'm not you know what You see Yeah, exactly me not playing it. That's about the best thing in that whole franchise. Thank you. Caleb I remember playing it. It was hard as hell. Yeah, it's not it. You know why it's hard. It's because it's bad It's just poorly designed It's just the the controls are clunky and weird and you slide around I just There's that's why it's hard in my opinion. I remember watching a let's play of it And I just like it's a lot of the enemies are just frustrating Like yeah, and that's that's a problem a lot like a lot of people have that problem I guess with ocarina where it's just like You're fighting these enemies, but it's mostly just like a it's it's a waiting game more than anything And you're not really doing anything Whereas um, if we're gonna accuse any game of having a waiting game in terms of how to fight enemies That's skyward sword. I mean, I love the game to death, but yeah, skyward sword Yeah But actually talking about skyward sword reminds me of a another fan topic we received from uh, darin who asks darin why Our links eyes too big in skyward sword And question that was the whole question and I'm sorry that sounds like I'm making fun of you. I'm not I really appreciate that you wrote in but um Well, whenever I played skyward sword, I always had this running joke with cheff that link has these like really blank eyes Because he keeps staring into the sun Because every like two minutes I would just stop whatever I was doing and look up towards the sky and try to find the sun and just stare at it Until jeff would to make me stop Usually I mean, I mean, I don't know how you can say that. Oh go ahead. Caleb. Oh, I've just said it's better than playing the game I was gonna say if you can accuse any link of having enormous eyes Why not go for wind waker link? Yeah, that guy has an eye that looks like you could stick your whole arm through it Yeah, all right adam keep your fetishes to a minimum, please Oh, thank you, Caleb Um, but yeah to answer your question. I guess I guess I don't know. I don't think so I think it really fits the aesthetic and I mean, it's it's kind of I guess that's an interesting question to ask Do you think like there's ever been like a really weird design choice that you guys have seen in as all the game pink hair Well, that was that was for like all of all of zelda 2 Welcome to the I hate zelda 2 cup podcast by mitt glower Featuring zelda informer featuring zelda informer mick and the zelda informer. Yeah, there you go. Are we a band now? Yeah, we could be a band. We should start a band. Let's start a band guys. Oh god So much to talk about this week because I I saw all the news about um Nintendo there. Did you guys see their announcement this week the payment the e3 e3 announcement? Yeah Yeah, it wasn't as good as last year. I think I don't know. It's hard to beat the regi fees a mech Yeah, but at the same time Nintendo world championship is making a comeback I prefer this one. What can you guys can you guys clarify this to me because from the outlook of it? Is this like Is this like the whiz? Yes, it is exactly like the whiz Oh, because we didn't call it We called it. I think we called it nintendo fest or something. What the what did we call it? Um, I went to it when I was a kid really? Oh nice I went to one at the kingdom in downtown seattle And they did the whole thing where you had to play like rad racer tetris Martin you had to like first like you had to collect like a certain amount of coins in mario and then You had to do a thing and I think it was rad racer and then you had to I think the last one you had to clear was tetris Um, uh, there was a bunch of games nintendo power fest It whatever it was Whatever it was in the way people went on in the championship if i'm not mistaken It was those three games like you you had to do certain tasks in each of those three games Yeah, it was kind of like nes remix Yeah, and then it was like a yeah, and then you were timed on it or you got actually you weren't timed on it I remember there was a cartridge for it There actually is there's like a nintendo world championship cartridge from 1990 that you can find but we didn't call That's the thing that confused me is like they called nintendo world championship. That's not what we called it when I was a kid I'm trying to remember what it was called. I think I think you're talking about something else No, no, no, no, no, I'm pretty sure because if it's what the wiz was that's exactly what it was No, I think he's on there. There was an actual nintendo world championship in 1990 I think your I think maybe mix talking about the like event leading up to and then the world championship Was like everybody who competed in that coming together. Maybe it's are you referring to like an actual event that was annual No, no, no, I just remember it happening once and it happened at the kingdom of downtown seattle There might be something interesting. Maybe it was a local version of that. Did you compete? Could have been I did How'd you do? I didn't do very well I am curious they they they made a big deal out of the bringing back the nintendo world championship But we have no idea what games are coming to it Right. Yeah, I mean they I think on the 30th They're going to announce how to actually enter which is weird because that gives people like 15 days Wait on may no may 30th is when they're having people Go to best by to compete, right? Oh, is that where they're having the competitions? I well, they're having local competitions And you can enter if you if you win those then you You could go to e3. Oh, okay and compete. Yeah. What what sucks for me is that they said they're doing it on sunday The 14th, but I'm going e3 this year. My flight gets in on the 15th Because the conference does not start until tuesday. I'll do it for you dad Thank you. Thank you son. Um But it's just frustrating because that's like a really exciting event I was really hoping to see but they're not even doing it at e3 technically. They're doing it like before Well, nintendo never really does anything at e3. Well, that's so frustrating Did they do that with the smash tournament last year? I feel like something started I don't think so. I think the smash tournament actually took place like right after e3 Like it took place on that thursday or wednesday I mean, nintendo does what they want they do what they want with e3. Um, I mean they We already knew that square was doing their conference at 9 9 a.m Pacific time and nintendo announced that they're doing it that time too So squares got their own conferences here square has their own a lot of a lot of companies that has their own Conferences here. I think and valve has their own conference this year It's a really interesting year because it's like for valve to show nothing because Yeah, that's I think they're going to be showing off their um, their Virtual reality thing they're they're good because i'm not burned out with that. I feel like they're just gonna talk about their steam machines mick You were a kid in the day 80s, right? Yeah. Yes. So like So I guess like the whole like Virtual reality thing Was a started when you were a kid and now it's making kind of a comeback Is that kind of weird for you to see that sort of happening again? Yeah, I mean When I was a teenager is when we started seeing Oh, okay. Yeah, and that's when they actually had those head things and the virtual boy Well, no the actual, you know, you'd go to like a party or you'd go to an arcade and they actually had like the big head Thing it looks like uh, you docked brown and back to the future Right Except they had a visor on it and you could see in it. Um, and I wasn't sure I mean it back then it seemed like everyone was talking about how it was going to be the next big thing And then it just kind of faded out. There was even a movie Disclosure, I think it was called with Michael Douglas and Demi Moore And that had a lot of quote-unquote vr in it Um, and that wasn't as well. But yeah, I mean as far as virtual reality is concerned Yes, there was a period of time when everyone talked about it. We saw it. We got a glimpse of it. It seemed really cool Um, but I guess it just wasn't practical in any way and it kind of vanished off the radar and then Oculus came out I mean, there's there was a bunch of you know, virtual boy. There was there was some kind of like, you know Faky little Craggar jack prize vr things we saw but yeah, this was like, you know The Oculus I think is the first thing that kind of seems remotely legitimate and now that it has like facebook backing, right? Facebook bought it or something. Yeah. Yeah, so it seems like I haven't either. They bought it and just like tucked it under their bed But I feel like yeah, that could be saving this for later If they have backing like that then Sure, then, you know, clearly if they have, you know, the visionaries that Mark Zuckerberg has hired Or to to make up for his own whatever fleet of drones. Yeah, then uh, fine That's cool. I'm actually surprised like google didn't buy up one, but I guess they had their own one too, right? They have like a little Yeah, I think they're working with no, that's uh valve is working with android Oh, samsung Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was the samsung thing. Yeah, I guess I'm curious why google hasn't well They were working on google glass I know for a while and they recently like pulled it back and they're like we're gonna work on this even more but like Focus on working on it instead of like selling it to people Yeah, because instead it looks like they just kind of did nothing I think they're they're kind of being like instead of trying to make virtual reality How about we just like mod reality like do modules reality? Well, that's kind of like, uh, microsoft with their What's that room called? Hollow hollow deck. Yeah. Well, it's basically that no, it's basically a hollow deck though. It's basically a hollow deck That's not called that Can you imagine playing a zelda game in like virtual reality because I know you can play lint to the past Using like an oculus rift now. I can't wait to play zelda 2 in br. Oh my gosh Wow. Yeah nightmare simulator 5000 Actually, you know what maybe you know what maybe that game if they remade it If they remade it and it was like, you know in virtual reality, maybe it would be decent I don't know. There'd be a lot of jumping. I feel like you'd get really tired How was your day? Oh, I played some zelda 2 I puked blood because I jumped so much. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's little Little things But uh speaking of PCs and wonderful things and mods Um, I recently got into skyrim for the pc and I mean no, no, please don't do this I have to I immediately decided that i'm like 40 mods for it I thought it was really good because I've played skyrim rift before already and you know, I was like I want to I wouldn't really have done this if I didn't have those mods and it really did make the experience a lot cooler I got some like new quests. They fixed a lot of things that I thought were wrong with the game Um, do you think you get the tank mod where like you shoot the tank and then it like flies in the air And you can just keep firing it and you can like go into the sky No, but this sounds amazing. What is this? It's it's not it's not about It was a gta hack actually. I think oh, okay. Yeah, I just imagine as a tank in skyrim Lately gta's had a number of very interesting hacks. There's the fire breathing cat. There's the whale And there's the part of the whale the whale is falling from the sky one Yeah, that's amazing. I believe that's just you playing as a whale. Yeah I'm a whale. Have you guys ever seen that secret agent bob's like the little short clip? Mm-hmm. No, but anyway my original question Do you guys think games like the legends elbow would benefit from the addition of mods? Oh I think every game can benefit from the addition. Yeah. Yeah, I don't see why not. I mean, it's like why why wouldn't you I mean people could say that you're kind of ruining the experience like you're kind of don't play with them Yeah, I would say not to do it as your first experience I would say play the game as as it is so you can enjoy it for What it was meant to be enjoyed as and then once you've played the crud out of it in that form Go crazy like Zelda 2 Yeah, you know what? You know what? There's a really I actually I've heard there's a good mod for zelda 2 Really? Yeah. Yeah. It's the one where you delete it Oh, it's called the delete mod and you never step on the you step on the cartridge and then you smash it And pee on it and set it on fire Um, yeah, you send it to me you send it to me moto. Yeah And see why why I forgot we had sass pirate on the podcast About me I like it Yeah, I mean initially my gut reaction was I'm not a big fan of the idea of Modding that kind of game But I get the idea if you're if you've enjoyed the game and you just want a different experience Nothing wrong with changing it I will also add that mods, you know, you've got things like dark souls But you're broken and have issues and mods are also good to have in order to fix things really and actually play your video game So I can put a tank in dark souls finally the way the game was meant to be played Or just have it run at you know 60 frames like it should Yeah, I don't have to I don't have to fight against the blood star beast with a knife I can use it. I listen. I I have no problem. I I'm curious what is going on with I love bloodborn a lot But I have no idea what the heck is up when you bring in co-op people. It lags like It lags like a mofo. It's like I'm getting last week's news. It is so No, seriously, it like it gets really bad, especially like if you enter old yarnum And there's all the fire particles and stuff. I'm sure that's part of it But oh, yeah, it just gets if you get Like I've invaded people where they had like two co-op people and it's like Running it like 10 frames a second or less. I don't know. It's choppy. It's so choppy It's just a bunch of moving pictures. There's an old man like just kind of moving like and here we go And here's 10 seconds later. Yeah. No, I mean, yeah It might as well have like a little meanwhile bubble at the top of the screen every single frame because it's just like a little layer Yeah, so I don't know. I don't know what's up with that. I mean, we're talking what a new Next gen gaming and stuff and another than that. I mean, it's great solo, but man when that happens It just kind of drives me. It's funny because recently there was a splatoon global test fire Where they were basically checking to see if the service could handle the volume of people How do you know? Um, it depends on on where you were playing it from a lot of people said that they were The game went fine. Some people I saw were like spending an hour at the moment trying to Nintendo game It's online. It went really well. Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing It actually it worked for some people and that's That's an a plus in Nintendo's mind There's actually some lesser known like good examples of Nintendo online One of them that stands out for me is uh, kid Icarus uprising That has surprisingly good online play. Yeah, but that's 3ds. That is a little yeah And I'm definitely less complex than this platoon was Probably part of the problem with splatoon is I mean they pick very specific periods of time and just for an hour And yeah, they kind of overloaded their own servers I think that was part of the idea though was to overload the server as much as you can to see how much You can push it So they know how to fix it and be ready because I think a lot of A lot of companies will make like a a beta period or something But make it very limited access and make it very difficult for people to even do it all together So a lot of time they don't have the right idea of how much they're going to be pushing the servers um Yeah, I think that's also part of the reason why they're um Uh in the direct they announced that they're going to be slowly releasing more modes for online More stages things like that. I think that's partially because they really are being very very careful about how how well they can handle their online I think I think it'd be interesting to see how that kind of plays into zelda. I mean you're talking about how in Bloodborne you have a co-op mode and stuff. I think that we might see something in zelda you that might be possibly similar because I whenever I see Uh dark souls or bloodborne. I always think you know, this is where zelda could go Depending on who's in charge of it. You said that a couple of times. What what is your I'm just curious why why you keep coming back to that. Do you have? I'm not I'm not trying to be funny about it. I'm being serious like is there like as far as Is there any reason why you would postulate? That that the game would go in that direction First of all good vocab word second Uh just that it's um It feels very much like an adventure and the the way that they handle lore is what how I've kind of heard that they they're gonna handle it in zelda you where instead of It being presented to you you kind of go and find it You find it like on cave walls and things like that. That's where you're gonna really find your story It's more or less been like that a lot like it has already been like that Yeah, yeah, but I think that they they're purposely doing that as a focus now They're trying to make the story as I guess not really far detached from the gameplay but More or less something that you don't have to see Yeah, no, I actually think that would be super cool. You know to to be honest I wish dark souls did that a little or the soul series So blood born included did it a little bit more But I do love the idea of you know, like you said cave walls or something if you were to go into a level And with no explanation at all there was just like this huge mural of like like kind of like ancient drawings Nobody explains it But clearly you can kind of decipher a little bit or at least you think you can so there was this race And then they were having a good time and then these other yeah, but then again It's also like well who who wrote who drew that? Yeah, that could that could be drawn from the point of history from a different race or whatever So you might be given the idea and then you get to the end and you find out It was all a big lie or something or that it was just a different, you know that it was You didn't see the whole picture. You just saw their their perspective Yeah, I think and I think a world like Zelda would be able to pull it off really really well statues Especially with like the you know murals. Yeah murals statues paintings Um, you know, I mean there was the tapestry and a ling between worlds. Yeah That uh, by the way, have you played a ling between worlds? Uh, no, I've seen it though. Oh, you should play it. It's really good if you I think you like link the past. I feel like you might what's your favorite Zelda game? um I really like ocarina Oh I'm sorry. I mean it was nice talking to you man should be fair though to be fair um, I I mean my favorite I think my favorite is going to be a link to the past, but um, I the the last the latest one I have replayed was um And I don't think I gave it a fair shot because I played it in college and to be fair. I don't remember a lot of college um And so when I played it I was like wow, I don't remember any of the and then I was like, oh, I kind of remember that There's a tunic and has a sword. Yeah. No, I I remember playing it. Um, and I remember beating it in college I just honestly when I went back and played it. I did not recall almost any of the game So yeah, yeah I have the same I have the opposite experience with ocarina of time and like I feel like I really haven't explored that game and then I'll go back and play and I'll be like I remember everything Yeah, well, I I had chemical influences. Yeah. No, I understand. Okay. Okay. I don't have a bad memory. I just Straight up. Yeah, I mean you do have bad memory. I I might I might now because of college Terrible decisions being made. Yeah To step in on that topic for like one last thing I like the idea of optional story or a story at my own pace. Yeah I I think that's awesome. I I really appreciate souls for that reason and I think it benefits all around from it Well, it's not even your own pace. It ends up being interpretation as well. So it allows you to yeah I mean some things are pretty set kind of but yeah, it is not only at your own pace But it's also kind of your own iteration of whatever it is So you can debate it with your friends and all that kind of reminds me of like a time it's it's funny because I Zelda you seems like the kind of game they want it to be that way They want it to be something you kind of play casually with your friends and you talk to them about it I think they want to try to as much as they can capture that sort of old older like Uh Feel of games where you know used to you play the game And you would be part of it and you get stuck on a part and you go and you talk to your friends And you ask them about what they like how they did it or if they played it at all And like if they got past it or you talk about like hey, I found this weird thing What do you think it is because a lot of the zelda Community a lot of it is just basically debate over things that haven't been answered a lot of it Is like these theories that have popped up from everywhere. I'm sorry. I'm not talking to my friends I'm just gonna get on the internet I mean I mean, uh, well Doesn't the mods conversation to kind of tie into that if you if you find all these issues and you're like well Obviously wouldn't be like, you know modding to Find how to beat a boss or something like that. You wouldn't do that. Well, you might do that But um with the idea of you know, there's a flaw in the game needs to beat a boss But the sword if I have a machine gun exactly or thanks modding community But you can discuss with your friends like what kind of mod you're looking for what kind of mod You're looking to create if you're in one of those communities and directly address that Yeah, I think it's I mean on the show we spend a lot of time talking about theories almost every week. Um But that's just my theory do Stone don't do it. I didn't do anything You know what you did I do Um, but caved really quick there Like what are you talking about? You know what I'm talking about. Yeah We're not very strong here I've beaten them into submission You're wondering how I got put on this podcast an hour ahead of time Hey jeff do you want to do the podcast? Do I have a choice? No, not really. He's not kidding when he says he beats us Send help to this address below five seven zero Yeah, but uh A lot of the time in the zoldy community we hit we spend most of the time debating on things that aren't really There um, and I think that's just something that you kind of have to I guess it's just kind of part of the community. I think that's and I think it's a strong part of the community Um, the things that even are answered are kind of changed every so often every time a new game comes out I know that um new mo will come out and say like this is the new lore and it's like But what about what you said last week? He's like I lied Um, you know, it would make so it would make a lot of sense to have Lore in a game what because of zelda is just so many storylines and so many different pasts and whatnot It would actually make a lot of sense If you did just leave it like purposefully leave it open But you know what I mean? Like don't don't try to create some linear thing have your elements, but allow like Allow people to fill in the gaps. Yeah. Yeah, I invite them to do that and then leave it at that And I and I feel like then you're not then you don't have to hold up the responsibility of actually having This linear thing you could if you wanted to have it in the background But I feel like when they say oh, this is the new lore or this is the new lore Then what you're doing is you're pulling the rug out from people every single time And they stop caring they got to go back and like try to rework it into their psyche It's called backwards rationalization Where it's like they now have to take this new information and try to make it apply to the old information And it just I don't it seems counter-intuitive just like Just create a world and open it up and and throw some story elements in there and real story elements in there and real like, you know Like culture and whatever and then allow the players to to try to you know, fill the gaps I I think if you want to create a conversation if you want to create more fan lore and more In-depth like, you know obsession over that kind of stuff. That's a great way to do it I think I think it's it's funny because a lot of the time anyway the the argument almost becomes I have this theory I think this way and someone's like Well, it's they're gonna they're gonna like they haven't even said that that's part of the laureate They could exempt that like next week and that becomes like people are expecting them to just like veto certain parts of the story Almost immediately so they just disregard everything as information And it kind of makes it hard to talk about a game when no one wants to actually listen to I guess facts of the game the the overriding force is that the even if fans hear a theory They don't like they don't listen to it including the theories that nintendo puts forward People don't like some of the stuff that's in hyrule historia A lot of people didn't like that nintendo quote-unquote ended the chic gender debate last year in like a very straightforward statement Um Among other things or I I know we had a debate on What term and the quote should be around the word debate. It wasn't really debate It was just people not understanding how things work. Well. Yes. That's my that's pretty much my uh Uh status on that too But there's also like majora's mask, you know, what is terminal even though it's in the instructions manual for the game So it's all the like people are gonna have their head canon and that's okay Like that just adds to what people come up with in terms of fan art and right um fan fiction and Whatever makes them enjoy the series Yeah, right There's a little metroid back I mean you have we have metroidvania kind of yeah, we have uh bloodstained coming out. Uh, that's not I'm a little I'm a little uh I'm a little concerned about this uh kickstarter video. Why? What about it got you? It's really weird and cheesy. Well, it's super weird and cheesy Um, they don't show you jack s h That's what I was think that's exactly what I was thinking went out. Well besides for the cheesy stuff That's exactly what I was thinking what they do show you I don't can one of you guys actually, you know, jeff johnny utah pointing this out to me If you go and look at the one screenshot they show you she's I understand she's in the air. She's shooting that little dragon thing. Yeah Can you take a look at that lion beast in the bottom left corner? I sure can I want you to take a look at it and I want you to describe to me What you are looking at it looks like it's like doing a handstand kind of Does it does it really kind of does but two of its limbs are like to the It looks like a lion head with six legs coming out of it It looks like a freaking lion head spider They move it to the other like they they move like it's it's the exact same piece. That's correct It's like they just copied and pasted it This image looks like it took like a very short amount of time if they just smashed a bunch of concept art together Why is that character even in the screen is my question because it just looks so bizarre and not in a good way It's like you're trying to throw us into the world, but in the wrong parts too quickly I I mean, I don't even know what they're saying with that image I don't understand what this is. It makes me mad and no it's not even like I don't understand like Change is bad. It's like this looks stupid. Why is this here? No, I it looks like a monster from adventure quest I mean on the bright side it only has people who've only pledged two million dollars to it so far. Oh my god They're asking for five hundred thousand, right? Yeah, yeah, they've they've gone a ways and you know, it's interesting They're there's they're using a new approach to kick starters, which I think the kick starter Exploding kitten is used first which is backer Not backer rewards here. It's but like backer achievements. Sorry for interrupting you Jeff, but uh, it's that You have these like backer rewards based on how many people back the game achievement wise and how many people like it and stuff so like if we get 200 pieces of fan art We get you get there's gonna be an achievement that I'll start unlocking uh backer items If we have a certain number of twitter followers or retweets or facebook likes We're gonna start adding items or we're gonna start adding like unlocks Uh, the reason Exploding kitten kittens did it is because they were getting so much money That they really couldn't add any kick starter goals to that list without feeling uncomfortable with it Um, so they were just like if more people pledge one thing that's getting me about more money gets pledged one thing that's getting me about bloodstained is that They have their kick starter their stretch goals explicitly stated up to two um, two million 250 000 and there's still nothing about a we you version That's interesting Like the 200 and uh, that stretch goal is an 8-bit level Yeah, that's the stretch goal, which is neat, but I found it interesting like the whole demeanor of it seemed very much like us against them And I get it like maybe he is what in the video? Yeah, yeah, he's like they said no one would want to hurt Guys had no one want to play the game or whatever the f*** excuse me What whatever the heck he said all the sensor. It's fine. Yeah about you know what I mean Like he just seemed like very like oh no one would ever allow this game to exist But I I believe fans want to make this thing happen and it's like yes. Yes. This is all great But I didn't see anything Anything in it besides the cheesiest of cheese ball. I was like I I feel like if he spent less effort being In that expensive room with the paintings drinking red wine And in the armory down in the basement and actually had the concept guys kick out maybe just a couple other You know gameplay the three pieces of screenshots Yeah, I mean well there was the one gameplay thing and then there was a bunch of character designs Yeah, and you can see it on the page. Yeah, that's it. That's it The other the other game that that actually the banjo kazooie guys, right? Yucca lately. Yeah That I mean that has a ton that that already got way over their amount But they have so much gameplay footage concept art character designs They're like we finished the basic game in like three months Yeah, they're already you know, I have no doubt that that is going to happen I don't know if it's scary. It's scary how like Much they did in essentially three months and they had no problem boasting that or not even boasting He just showed it just like here. This is what we did. Yeah, he dropped it Like like he was just walking down the street and farted without you know, he didn't care. He didn't care. That was weird No, no, not weird at all. He didn't care. He's just like hey guys I mean when he said it he's like, oh, yeah, we did this in three months And uh, yeah, we can do a lot more with you know more money. It's like you did this in three months Yeah, it was like this looks like a finished game. Yeah, they had a whole like 10 minutes of just footage of game This is sonic boom current state. Okay. Yeah, you know what the backgrounds are better than sonic boom already Already so bad design, but it's true. That can't be that can't be and the crazy thing is that all the stretch goals for yucca lately Amazing like I was I was like curious But now I'm really excited because it's like this game was supposed to be originally like a single player game That you know a lot of people wanted to play and like hang out and like talk about together Now they've made modes that you can play with your friends They've made games specifically for like four to eight two to four people I think there's like eight games that are just for the uh four player modes Yeah, not to mention an orchestral score and a concert for that arc You know, it's amazing. It was like that was their last stretch goal too It was like they they were like if we get enough money, we're gonna pay an entire orchestra to make our music Like that's that to me just says there's so much heart in it. You know what I mean like They couldn't the next one is all the dlc is free Yeah, that's right. They're like, we just don't even need the money anymore. Yeah, and it was very it was very good I mean uh someone in uh either the zeldin former staff chat or the gamnesia staff chat pointed out It's sad that they had to say after we've delivered a fully finished game Will make dlc Right, but that's what they have to say nowadays, right, but they did specify that and at the very least I I think it's the same approach that uh yacht club games is taking with shovel night where they finish the game And the dlc took a while because they didn't start the dlc. They didn't they didn't like plan. Okay. Hey, uh Mick I I know you're working on that piece. That's going to be part of the dlc. Honestly just seeing just seeing Um games like that ukulele or or even shovel night definitely They are the to me the shining beacons. They are the heroes And what I believe should be the staple for what a kickstarter game that gets you know millions or over a million dollars You know that when they deliver there the problem is there's so many games that get a million plus I don't need to say them out loud. Everyone knows who these thieves who these lazy. Are you talking about exploding kittens? No Because I've heard some people like complain about that and I just no no no i'm not talking about exploding kittens I'm not talking about yogs cast. I'm not talking about all the people who've taken the money and run Okay, I'm not talking about listen. I'm not talking about these people Specifically Okay, I am talking in general if they fall in that category they do it's not my call If they look all I'm saying is they fall in that frequency if you have taken If you have taken an absorbent amount of money And you did not deliver something or you delivered something that was very subpar Okay, and I don't need to say it again All right, I I could say it nine times and I still wouldn't need to say it but that The point being that there are games that do get created that you can tell like they got the money and they kind of executed it and it's like All right. Well, wow that kind of was mediocre and you can tell what game has heart Absolutely shovel night. Um, I am not a nostalgia file. Okay, it's not like oh, I love mega man So much that when I play a game that even remotely looks like mega man. I will marry this game I hate original mega man. They're so old and clunky Hey, I like mega man, too. Okay, that's no, no, I still I still like them. I'm just putting up my opinion I'm just saying I'm not gonna throw money at anything that remotely looks like it Of course. Yeah, no, because I shovel night. I mean they delivered. I mean the the level design was really clever Um, yes, there was a lot of nods to the past. Yes, there was a lot of nostalgia But at the same time the battles felt new to me that there was there was a good advantage of the new coding Also, they had truffle king. I mean Anything out like my biggest watching that scene is magical Okay, I'm sorry. That was actually my biggest beef with the game. What was if I needed No, if I needed some health potion Oh, yeah, that was a 15 minutes watching them dance. I was just like, oh man Really? Thank you. And then he just kept going and going and going and going. I was like, okay We're done. Can I can I just x out of this? It's funny because like That sort of thing I used to hear about that and then I mean like I met nick was Of the couple months ago and he's going to be on the podcast in a few weeks for those who are interested. Um Who is the art director of the games here of the shovel night series? series I get this at this point because it's you know, they're working on all the DLC Yeah, hopefully more games. They said they're going to be talking about these things But I would look, you know, if they put the care and attention and the cleverness And the full fullness like touching on I mean, I mean even the music was great When we had everybody over around pico day, we had like 15 people in the house and we were playing uh shovel night Um, you know, we would we would just go up to the loot dude the barred guy And we just throw in a couple tunes and everyone'd be working and we would just have this stuff on loop You know what I mean? Like yeah, it was it was just from the music to the level design The character design there was an actual story like it wasn't like the most mind boggling story I kind of figured it out about it was absolutely touching. It was it was simple and touching which is amazing Boss battles super fun. I mean the mini bosses original all of them original except for I guess they like reuse the griffin thing Whatever, but you know, like it was just so I don't know There was just so much attention and and if they do that with all of their games I will be a lifelong fan of that company. Absolutely the same way I feel about from soft the reason that I I mentioned meeting nick is because like meeting him was And jeff was there too. It was it was a rewarding experience because he's you can just Feel how much he cares about this game and how much he loves working on it And like how excited he is to do more and like how he much he wants to make these amazing games like It shows in their game, but it's like even in person You can you can tell that their passion is to make a good game and not to make a profit I hope you I hope yacht club does kickstarter for every game And I don't think they're ever gonna have a problem with money. Oh, no I mean these guys, I mean they know how to do it. So, yeah, they were the pros that made a bunch of like really good games Yeah, I mean that thing is it's interesting because they have pedigree They definitely do like the people on the yacht club games team. They do Um, you have to get on that team. I think you had to have a good tracker to be it was a good backing Like in terms of them going to kickstart. It was like these are the people we have this experience We have to bring it back to bloodstained. It's very interesting because it's pedigree But with like this very big ego And that was the big thing that came through in that video because it's just him It's it's just uh ego and one man does not make a good game You know what that that's the thing that I didn't mention because I didn't even think about it So you mentioned it, but it was in my mind that that that is what bothered me who I wanted to see the artist I want to see the music guys. I wanted to see because the designers. I wanted to see I wanted to see who Who's who else for all they're all at the very bottom Another Castlevania thing for all. Oh, they are they're all at the very bottom in like all these little like Dracula costumes It's kind of cute, but it's also like well, I'd like to know more about what they're doing Kind of bothered by you know, it's funny is that whoever did the little character portraits is like a character artist So it's really weird Look, I'll just sorry. I'll end the the the the blood born or sorry the blood stain thing I'll just say this Symphony of the night is easily one of my favorite games of all time I am a completionist by nature and it's why I stopped playing video games for a good 10 years And it was because when I played Symphony of the night, I would get I I did not stop Not just not just the whatever 206.3 percent whatever you could get um I'm talking like I wanted to know every item that you could get from an enemy generally two items each right So I would kill enemies again and again and again and again until I could get literally fill out that entire like um pokedex of uh Of enemies where it like tells you, you know, uh the the items and stuff they dropped But it was easily one of my favorite what I loved also Um the weapons that you could get like this knuckle weapon that could also do a hudokin Or you can have this flame sword that could do a flame burst, but it didn't tell you they didn't I mean at least maybe in the they let you kind of figure it out Well, I didn't figure it out until by accident and then the shield rod. Oh my gosh Do you guys ever do you guys ever play Symphony of the night? I don't know Yes, okay So the shield rod if you have the shield rod any shield that you have with the shield rod had its own like summon Like you really yeah like you like summon this thing So like the leather shield like a big cow showed up and I think like you got a little bit of health But then later on you got the dark shield and this big head Like comes out of the ground with like all these like boulders And it was easily one of the most op things you could do with shield rod But it was like every in the medusa shields Um all all the different shields with the shield rod had a summon that it did So like there was a cool combination of weapons going on Absolutely, and I just felt like it it was a very very full game These guys they say they want to realize the full potential of what that is for me playing Symphony of the night With the dual castles all those weapons Amazing music in in fact today on twitter. I just posted a dance of dance of the pale or whatever it was called Castling has always had really solid music in my opinion. Just like Probably one of the hats table of the series But it's just like yeah, and then all yeah Yep, and then also all the secrets that they they tend to have as well Which is great, but it's like I don't know what this guy plans to do He didn't say all he said was that he wants to make a game and he wants to make it better I I didn't hear what was better. What a lot of it. You have to read. You have to like really read into what he said Okay, so they did post a lot of it because I just watched the video They basically they've said like, you know, uh, there's going to be an item crafting system Miriam, it's like an extensive use of alchemy co-op, right? Yeah, there's going to be co-op as well because of the backing levels and stuff There's there's a lot of stuff, but a lot of it is in the writing It's kind of like you have to really look for it. I guess you have to really read into it But it wasn't sound like the video. Yeah the video is where it should be There should be at least a brief oversight of like, hey, there's going to be this this and this and this in the video And it still got all of that money because they just had uh Yugafune on it. I have a question Um, now I haven't kept up with it too much But does it seem like it's more of a action game or does it seem like it's actually definitely metroidvania? But more towards the newer ones not the other ones. It's basically like a newer version of Of symphony the night essentially is what it's like, you know, it's you know, it's weird and I'm sorry to keep on this But like one of the backer levels is a 75,000 dollar one or 70 70 7500. Sorry 7500 not 75,000 Still 7500 is still a lot of money, you know, you get right A handmade silver ring made by the game designer That was a weird one like the one where you get to spend a day with him. I understand, but He's a metallurgy Metal urges. Yeah, he can craft things with metal and he makes games such a strange combination See, I'm I don't it's so weird. It's weird. It's it's What if I have the money coming out of my butt? I'd do it. Yeah, what what are his credits? Castlevania. I thought he was a producer. He is the designer And oh he was he co-directed symphony of the night That's confirmed. Yes. Yeah, that is part of how they describe him. He's also the project lead So that's that's his time. All right. Well, I don't know that it's possible. Hopefully I can't I can't really poop on that Hopefully he's the good. Well, he could be the pad half of symphony of the night. It's possible. It's true There could be a lot of guys involved Yeah, it's the negative. He was the one that everybody he was the ganondorf of the group They were all like, you go away every time. It's a terrible idea every time you'd offer something They would like be like, yeah, let's not do that. That was yeah, he's like, hey, I got an idea for an enemy It's a lion with eight legs So guys, I was playing adventure quest yesterday Okay, we're gonna have we're gonna have these enemies called dark nuts and you're gonna have to stab them like a million times Hey guys, come over here. Check this out. Check this out. Well, what is it these enemy designs? It's from adventure quest Do you think we could do something like this? I mean, can we just can we just buy adventure? Can we can we talk to you for a second? I mean like me and the guys were talking and we think that you know Maybe maybe you should like Chill on the design. He's like, we really wouldn't mind. I'm gonna go make my own game I'm gonna go to kickstart everyone's gonna like my game better. Oh, everyone's gonna play my game Come on. Don't be okay Guys, he left. Oh, thank god That was really cute. That was really cute Um, I was like look forward to my adventure quest to kickstart. Um, but speaking of projects Wait, no, I had an idea. I wanted to say what did you want to say? I wanted to say Um, kind of bringing us back to the zelda 2 discussion. Sorry How dare you what if it was like, um, what if instead of like an rpg so to speak? Because that's how i'm gonna classify that It was metroid metroidvania style No I think it would be strange for zelda. Don't I feel like this the sword would not be a good He's not a good weapon for that style of platform zelda has killed metroid enough stop They just like release it anymore Caleb If you know what, I'm not gonna say they couldn't pull it off, but I feel like it would be It would be You know what? Yeah, I I'm not saying they couldn't do it. I'd like to believe that they can do it. I mean Zelda has pulled the zelda franchise has pulled off so many different genres Well, and in some cases amazingly Yeah, the idea of a metroidvania zelda I don't think is impossible, but it would be You know what? A remake of 2 would be the only thing that would even legitimately make Remote sense. Well, it's the only one that's a side scroller. Like can you imagine exactly right? Yeah, like, uh You know how captain totals originally is all the game Was it really? Yeah, it was actually originally a zelda game. Yeah, it was which is really strange I mean, I can kind of see the puzzle elements of it, but I'm so glad they went the way they did It's the cutest thing. I haven't played it, but it looks I love the original feel of it. I love watching people play It's it's a charming game. Yeah. No, it seems really really cute And it seems really well thought out and the what they did was they they created their own You know, like it's not a metroidvania. It's not a side scroll. It's not really I mean, it's kind of a platformer maybe but it's like it's own They just kind of created their own Thing, you know what I mean the cube world or whatever And I feel like it's I don't know like when you create that fits within the style of the game that they were trying to base it off of Well, right and now you have it's hard to it's hard to compare it to other games Yeah, once you create your own it reminds me of fez A little bit a little bit. Yeah, it kind of reminds me a little bit, but like Yeah, that too like very vaguely of Catherine and a little bit of push mo If you've heard of that game I have not from the e-shop. It's like this little puzzling game But it actually reminds me a little bit of that Yeah, it's a little bit like fez but without like the social justice attitude problem And the total like psychotic break. So yeah, it's a decent It's a decent comparison. Fess's designer is the most interesting game designer Ever heard of I think they could do our own podcast on phil fish. So let's just not even get into it Anyway, but speaking about projects, uh, let's ask mick since you do a lot of things with your with your Tablet and your your voice Tell us a little bit more about what you do a little bit about sleepy cab and I suppose since you know We're on a podcast. We might as well talk. Oh, I don't want to bore you guys We got a lot of zelda news to cover here I just really quickly Just a quick comment on that The thing that sucks and I we've gotten some emails on about this and someone is I actually had a very healthy conference I almost threw off my laptop Just threw it off the table But we've had a lot of emails come in and people have been talking to me about how they they like the podcast But they like it when we focus on zelda stuff And I've had to explain them. It's like we would love to keep talking about zelda news We would love to keep talking about zelda The only problem is is that a lot of the zelda news is gone or is coming in the future Since the nintendo decided to delay zelda you and a lot of you listeners out there um understand this that um We don't really have anything to talk about and it's I know there is always I mean, there's there's stuff that a lot a lot of it is myself going out and finding a lot of theories and things like that but a lot of the I mean when we when we're trying to talk think of like theories and things that we should Discuss because a lot of time we're not sure if we should discuss a theory because you know It's kind of dated or we've we've mentioned it before but a lot of time We kind of wait to see what the fans want us to talk about so if you guys think that you Uh would like to help us figure out what we should be talking about more Uh, if you had theories that you want me to look at if you want jake to look into if you want calyp to look into No Caleb won't do it, but I will and I'll make him do it Um, please send us to us at zeldinformerpodcast at gmail.com that zeldinformerpodcast at gmail.com We really appreciate it when you guys send us your feedback and let us know what you think of the show Or awesome theme songs like brandon and awesome. That's literally the best thing We've ever gotten at this site from a fan and if you can top that Then we'll say I feel like I feel like you're not giving enough credit to husky by the because he did some great work Okay, he was super resounding. I was actually gonna I was actually gonna go back to that because uh brandon sent that in before We got huskies intro and outro which is incredible Um But I always get a laugh out of brandon's a great dude. He also helped us for our uh regine former day He sent us a theme song for that episode Oh, which was uh, did you not hear yet? I don't know it's a theme song, but we she's they say regine former And they also say jake is their favorite at the end. It's cute. Um Hey guys post adam here I decided that you know We might as well show you what that theme song is because we never really use it anymore So, uh, here's uh the regine former theme song for the podcast PS jake is my favorite Can we go back to mick now? I want to hear mick stuff. No, no I mean, it's just it's it's cartoon. I've been doing a lot of commissions. Um The sleepy cabin stuff now that the patron is starting to uh, really shape up and and things are starting to What is sleepy cabin? Sleepy cabin is a conglomerate of artists and stuff. It's me stamper um chris oni and g uh psychic pebbles spaz kid uh, Cory Jeff when he wants to be around Niles been helping out um quite a bit. He's been uh, he's been a um A very helpful member um I mean, it's really just a group of guys who make things It's funny because like I see your sleepy cabin and I see like studio yada And it's funny because like we don't really have this sort of thing called like an art circle in the in the west Uh, but I think you guys have reached I guess the closest thing to it Where you all you'll kind of work together in the same environment And uh, I don't know if you do this very often But I think you kind of collaborate in certain things or you plan on collaborating more Yeah, so that's the thing right now the the biggest issue is that chris and zack Um, they have a show called hell benders and that is moving forward actually with yada Um, yeah, so they're working together, but that is now in full force. There was a lot of Contracts going back and forth. The problem is is that the they're doing like a fairly long episode and um And uh, that's going to take up a considerable chunk of time on top of that Stamper has been working with behemoth on their newest game game four Uh, he was also I don't know if anyone if you don't know who stamper is you should But he also was the voice of battle block theater And did the music a lot of music for them. Um And he was also involved in castle crashes as well, but he's working with them right now He's gone. He's in california working at the behemoth right now Um, so everyone you know and then quarry also, you know, he works with shed and and he's also doing a game He's actually doing a game. Oh really johnny utah Yes with I can't say much more about it. Look at shed is if you're over 18 go for it I can't ask though. Is it a porn game? No, it's not at all. No, no the game that he's working on isn't with shed He he does commission stuff with shed, but he's working currently with jeff johnny utah with tom fulp Who is also from behemoth? Alien hominid castle crashers battle block theater blah blah blah And they're working on a game right now those three and it is Um, it is gorgeous. It is that I mean jeff the combination of jeff's like artistic direction Plus quarries like meticulous frame by frame animation and then just tom You know in in his like general ideas kind of throwing them off into directions to go make stuff Like it is it is so wacky and so weird and beautiful at the same time They showed a little bit of it at a pico day just kind of like a new grounds meet up and I mean, I've seen it before but man It is just it is so pretty and and I can't I can't really explain it You can tell that it's just Such a I feel like this game needs to get on kickstarter or something like that they have plenty to show by the way I mean they have like 10 bosses already and like Yeah, I don't know what did I think the issue is whether or not it's going to be a behemoth game But again, I can't really talk much about it because a I don't know a lot about it Um, but I was recently uh talking to one of my friends who's a smash bros competitive player Eichelman he plays ganondorf very well Um, and he was talking about how he wants to go on this european trip But it's it's expensive. He needs about like three grand and um one of the things he was like He was like trying to sell off like a lot of stuff like his he was even trying to sell off his own setup And I was talking to him about how you know like He's like, uh, just like, you know, you should maybe should go on like go fund me or kickstarter or something, you know Try and get your your trip Group funded and try to make it into like a work thing, you know Like try to get something out of it and he was very he was very hesitant to do it Um, but then like two days after I told him to do it. He he he messaged me and he was like Dude, I'm going on my trip now and I'm like, what what do you mean? He's like I I did what you said and I got like a thousand dollars already And it's crazy because like a lot of the time. I think that people Are hesitant to do these sort of things. They're like worried about like seeming greedy or seeming like they're begging for money Um, but that's which is a very credible thing to be concerned about There's plenty of people that are gonna, you know poop all over you Um and call you out and try to you know try to pin you as that And to be fair There are those people who do you know for the most part though, it's interesting because I feel like the people who call People out for these things like oh, you're just stealing money blah blah blah blah blah They're either a not involved in any way in a creative capacity. So like in terms of like projects They don't understand how a project works, right? So they're like, oh, you want money for this thing You're just a thief blah blah blah and it's because they actually have no concept Of how these things actually work or how much they don't know what a producer asking the producer for work Well, no, I mean they go to work and they you know, they go home and they watch their movies No, no, I mean like a like a producer It's essentially the same thing Kickstarter is just asking a bunch of people to be mini producers Sure in the same way that you go to like a movie and or it ends up being So it's either those people who have just no capacity and or it's those people who would also Who would actually themselves use a system like that to take advantage of people? So it's kind of like the you know, it's like whoever smelt a delta Or whoever, you know, whatever It's the idea that they would they'd call out people and be like, oh, you're just stealing money because the truth is That's exactly what they would do right and so but but at the end of the day what you end up getting Is the people that are Very supportive and and that small percentage and it's always a small percentage Always ends up being So much more important for a number of reasons it has nothing to do with money It's everything to do with the fact that they are the actual like there's plenty of people that say like oh, man I wish I could support you in some way. It's like dude just by Saying that like clearly you are supportive Yeah, like I don't need your money to know that you're being supportive The fact that you are just supportive is supportive The fact that you say that you would you can see why someone else would want to give me money Right, and even if you were like, you know what I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't do it But you know what I'm okay with other people doing it. Yeah, I like what you're doing. You're worth it Yeah, and and it's just the idea that versus the antithesis, which is you're a hack thief Uh, who's uh conning a bunch of sheep Into throwing their money at you so you can you know, yeah, just there's this very negative attitude But it's like clearly not one of those people do I give a s*** about or Not one of those people do I give a crud about because These aren't these just aren't positive people who understand the notion of support or the idea of You know caring or understanding Um, you know how much effort goes into things and so I I think in um You know like in the case of your friend You know, he can be weary. He can be fearful, you know, Cory's the same way We keep telling Cory this Cory all a lot of the sleepy cabin guys have serious money issues and of course because You have this like it's it's interesting because you have that the youtube debacle that happened with the uh minutes wash Yeah, things are you know what things are getting better because of patreon things are getting better because of some of the choices We made which is focus less on just random masses And focus a lot more on the people that will support right continuously It's not even just like oh, let's focus on the people who you know will support us It's focus on the people that are that that we care about, you know, and it ends up being them But it's a lot less about like hey, let's try to create support It's a lot more just like well, there is support. There already is it's let's just focus on them now Instead of like going to like a in the middle of public and screaming about like who wants to play video games Going to like a card shop and talking to people there Well, we don't really talk about our patreon that much I mean we we we don't I don't even know how often we plug it to be honest Um, you should plug it here plug it. Well, no, we're definitely going to be We're definitely going to be making update videos at some point But it will be one each and that will be it It's not like we sit around trying to like inundate people with our patreon We just figure that the people who know us and who like our work Will either hear about it eventually or look into it or You know what it's just like if it happens it happens, but there's already a support system We already have an audience. Yeah, so it's not about like, you know trying to go out and just grab strangers and get their money It's more about like hey These are the people who clearly like our stuff We'd like to make more of it. Do you want to be a part of that is basically right? Um, I actually have so everything's about that. Um, yeah make uh, do you have more you want to say on that? Or no, no, no in terms of your not at all I was going to say about your friend that I'm glad he made that choice Yeah, I think and actually some way I talk about the way I do is because a lot of people have had a big hang up about it Because they fear What you know the general masses are going to say about it and what I'm trying to say is F them because you know what as a result He found things that he liked because of it like he found out ways he could do this in a way that was enjoyable like uh, he's making a travel log of his of his entire journey He's going to be like writing a guide on what like Basically where to go what to look for when you're going to these countries and you play competitive smash brothers And that's amazing Like it's really helpful the community and all like that. He's like if I can sorry if I can be the first one to add I would gladly throw $100 at corey's game. I want to do it right now Oh, well, he should do it. I would love to show I think there's a few gifts that got leaked I think tom even leaked leaked them But then like when jeff mentioned the name of the game it was like kind of a problem So I don't I don't really know what the the thing is if I promise you I play a lot of games and it is Gorgeous. Oh, I have faith in all it is goofy and weird and freaking beautiful Um, but yeah, that that was I know I went on a long time about it But I only do it because I feel like so many people have been a you know afraid like they've been kind of intimidated by people and the general rabble not to Not to ever go that route, you know, and and I think that don't sell out man Well, no, exactly and and well, there is selling out. There absolutely is selling out But then there's also like hey, I need to be able to eat. Well Yeah, I mean I personally look I I can sit here and say like crowd support's great But then I also You know behind closed doors or on this podcast would say I don't like it that I've seen Certain let's players who already make a lot of money just being a let's player on youtube And also on twitch and then also then have a a patreon like that that damn ony and g He doesn't do that. You see. I know I'm just kidding. No, but there are some people It's like dude. How many ways can you be taking money from people for playing video games? So you already have subscribed and look again, I'm not I shouldn't be judging but I do It's it's not my place to judge those people but I will I will Um, you know, if you're already getting money from so many different sources And then on top of that, you know, it's like pay me money so I can play more games. I get it You know, it's a source of entertainment for people Um, and who am I to judge what someone's source of entertainment is some people like to get whipped on the butt Some people, you know, some people like to play zelda 2. Some people like to play zelda 2 Um, I have my opinions about zelda 2, but I'm not going to tell someone like Nate that he's wrong um, again, I Right, I mean, I I think I personally think it's terrible, but you know, some people like to eat vegemite. So, you know It's a thing. It's a personal taste thing Um, but yeah, anyways, that's that's the end of that whole thing. I've had a couple of drinks. Just no, that's fine Oh, during the duration of our call We've had uh, we had on coal and I it was we had video on I think for him And it was interesting because we just like watched him drink beer after beer I was kind of like this is almost like interesting to just watch and see how far he goes Did you did you notice a uh, uh, considerable noticeable decline of um Comprehendability from him. Not really. He's a he's a UFC fighter. Oh, there you are. My two things on uh, Everything that mic was just talking about um one um One thing that I really like about patreon is that the initial suggestion is just a dollar a month, which is A ridiculously low Amount to dedicate, but it's still you're supporting that person and that's amazing You know, you say that but you know any any any dollar amount the fact that someone goes from viewer Like boyer viewer fan to actually pulling out their credit card Putting in the number and dedicating a certain amount of money that they make Or to you to you Even if it's one dollar that is that step Is huge the gap between I watched a youtube video and I enjoy these videos Or I like sleepy cabin podcast or I like the zelda informer podcast and now I want to I want to give it money that that that is a huge leap I mean, yeah, it's just pulling out your wall and entering some numbers But the the thought process and the decision to do that is so huge and that tells you so much about the person Who's doing that? I think it's funny because like I've mentioned this before in the podcast how like Even getting an email from any single person. Absolutely on the podcast. It like it blows me away. I feel amazing I'm off the wall. I jump and I tell Jeff about it and related to that like just recently like uh this past week I've been on a kick for this one youtube artist Shoko G. I'm pronouncing his name wrong, but he's he's he runs this channel called kazoo'd and he does kazoo covers of video game music And it's way better than it sounds It's amazing. Anyway, um, but I just realized like I've been talking to um calling from over at gamnesia about like how to support like various uh youtube Artists and our the stuff we put off in the sites and whatnot and I realized like I hardly ever like videos on youtube And I'm like, what am I doing? I'm you can it's so simple to just click and I like this. This is a good video And if every single person who watched a video and enjoyed it actually did that like And and subscribed which would be cool too Um, that would be a huge impact in itself Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Um, it's funny. It's the first thing people say like comment and subscribe And yeah, it's usually the most overlooked thing people will comment and subscribe way before they ever click that like button Yeah, oh, yeah people like to say yeah people will like you know, but it's interesting because yes While that is extremely awesome that people do that. Um, and it is very helpful It's interesting when people when the when the viewers start thinking of it is like a currency Like I've gotten comments like if you make a video like this again I'm never gonna comment on your videos again. It's like I'm sorry. Look. I I just made this because I thought you'd enjoy it. Um, Who are you? It's not like I don't know you know No, and yeah, and it's not like who are you like? Oh, I'm this big thing. Who are you? It's more like no literally I don't know you like if I saw you on the street and like I I never made a youtube video in my life Who are you? Like I I don't know who you are. I don't know why you dislike this video I don't know what you liked about it. I don't know how to fix it You don't have to like the video Just I don't understand why you feel like it's your job to tell me Like if I'm at a store or something and somebody comes up to me and tells me they don't like my pants It's like, who are you? I mean, meck, we need to talk to your pants I I have jeans that I literally shredded so I could like wear them as short jeans For some reason I thought you were wearing sweatpants because you're always wearing sweatpants It seems like um, I was wearing sweatpants and I switched over to jean shorts They're not actual jean shorts. They're jeans that I cut off to make are they short shorts They're not that short. No, I'm not like they're still gotta make them shorter A little bit of a limit on how long shorts can be. You're a dirty boy The last thing I wanted to uh, interject about that is uh, or about the idea of um, Whether artists can look for support and where did I go for that and like people's negative views on that? There's a fantastic TED talk called the art of asking And it's just all about the idea of there's a lot of people who look at artists who ask for support Whether it's your Kickstarter or through like any sort of They did a whole TED talk about it. Oh, it's a fantastic TED talk. It's about that's great Yeah, it's and it's it's super popular like if you search up TED talks and you search I don't know. It's got like over 75 video There's a lot of TED. Yeah, well, there's a lot of TED talks. I know. Yeah, there are But anyway, it's really great. Um, it's just all about the it's it starts with the idea of street performance and the idea that when uh, because the the person who's talking actually was a street performer for a time And you literally put out your hand and if someone wants to give you money, they give you money They connect with you. They say thank you. They say something about your work And then they go on and there are other people who just look at you and yell at you and say like, you know Get a real job that kind of thing But those aren't the people who come up to you and and actually Give something to you look you in the eye and say thank you or I appreciate that or that's amazing. Absolutely. Absolutely But yeah, definitely check that video out. It's amazing. It kind of It if it doesn't change your mind about What your thoughts are on that situation it'll at least Make you question it a little bit Yeah, no, I think it's a great I think it's great that people take the time to educate people about it because I feel like a big part of it Is education the idea that people, you know, the internet allows people free content your podcast Uh, you know, you know youtube videos that I put take money out of my own pocket to make this thing Right, there's there's free content everywhere and and because of that I think people believe that content is free and should be free And it's their god-given white to have this free content And if you ask for money, then you're greedy and if you're not making stuff, you're lazy So you're really kind of stuck in this spot of like, well, I I need to eat and This is costing me money to make and it takes time out of the very few hours Right. Well, no, but then everyone says well, you know, you should do it because you enjoy doing it Well, of course I enjoy doing it, but I also have some bills I enjoy the most part the people who complain don't have bills to pay and or don't know how long it takes to make stuff So yeah, I just chalk it up. I very rarely I used to get angry about it when I was Starting out, but the longer I've been in this game the longer I've learned that The more I've learned that, you know, honestly these people that you can't get angry at them They're just idiots or you know, what sorry, you know what they're not it is they are they're They're naive forms. Yeah, they're uninformed and so, you know, so be it, you know that that's who they are Just let it roll off your back. You mentioned how you've been in this a long time. Does it feel like it's I mean I think if I said a long time, but it hasn't been that long I mean if I think if I spoke to anyone About this sort of thing, I think they would agree that you are you've become one of the more patriarchal figures in I guess the animation online field The online content field of sorts Uh, maybe yeah, I think does it and I'm sure you get a lot of questions from artists and animators Who are just starting out and they like what what do you what is the most common question? You tend to get asked from these people and like how how do you how do you Make a living and and how do you um start? And I love the how do you make a living one because the answer is you don't And um, how do you start is equally entertaining only because there is no kind of paint by the numbers way to do it So, you know, it but I will say though that um granted while I'm not making a living from any of this yet YouTube was kind of what I think a lot of people initially thought was going to be the the game changer And it almost was back. It was it was for a chunk of time For about two years. It was very promising Um, like mind-blowingly promising and then for a year following It was still promising and then it just kind of slid off the scale for a lot of um kind of uh, like animators and longer work time for less like Quality over quantity essentially right right so, um And then which sounds insulting to say about people that videos all the time. Well, no, it's true. I mean, there's no I've never met I'll be honest. I've never met a let's player Um that I actually talked to and I talked to a lot of let's players I'm friends with a lot of let's players and V-loggers and I've never met a single one of them that has ever said You know, what I do is harder than what you do right and and so I appreciate that because if I ever did I punched them in the face Um that or I just or I just laugh really really hard Like like ironically hard in their face um But yeah, I mean I they understand But you know what at the same time it's not like there's you're gonna get a pity case That's the way the model works and they happen to be Good at what they do. Um, they're comfortable doing what they do and it's difficult to do what they do But I guess it's it's kind of like I guess an unfair comparison even to like Yeah, they're very different things all all together like jacks films Um, Brock Baker. Yeah, uh, you know, you can't compare like Writing novels to working in a coal mine. It's no but these guys though are super supportive They hire animators when they can Yeah, that's what I love is that they kind of like are the I guess the fix to the problem is that they They're kind of putting the money that they're getting that they can that they can afford back into that group that was kind of Yeah, and even if the money isn't there the support's there I mean when they see something cool, you know, like I'm not expecting them to like, oh well, you know If you're making X dollars where why don't you share the wealth asshole? It's like no, that's their thing They figured it out. They got it. They got their audience. They're doing what they do. They work hard They they make their type of content, but yes, I would say overall what's great is that they're not afraid to um You know share attention with artists. They're not afraid to patron artists They're not afraid to commission artists. It's not a competitive field. It's more a It's like a self helping group Yeah, because there are certain circles of people who basically just play minecraft and they believe in some capacity that they are somehow like that they are like bizarrely Skilled at something. I don't know like that Like it's not even like they're making all the cool minecraft too And I don't need to name anybody but it's just interesting that there are certain people and there's lots of people play minecraft You are not that I'm not saying that I'm just saying like there are certain pockets of people In the let's play v-log arena that have I don't know if it's like a weird justification of what they're doing Um like in order to feel okay about it or like a uh, you know a pride because otherwise What do you say to a party or what do you say when you when you meet someone's parents like oh, yeah I play minecraft, you know, it's like oh Oh, well, I make a lot of money though. It's like oh, okay You make a lot of money doing something that this is essentially like seen the equivalent as like selling drugs Yeah, you could I mean yeah, this one's legal, but yeah, but it's shameful It's like who's who's your who's your audience? What are you really making? What are you really doing? And by the way, the internet like disappeared, you know, what skill set do you bring to the table? It's I'm sorry to like interrupt, but like no minecraft thing Is it just me here as every video from minecraft the thumbnail is always the same It's like three or four like characters and they're all just like staring at the it's like one of those like old like 90s Rapper CDs mixtapes or whatever. I see just like they're all like staring at the camera one of them may be hunched over Something and it's like at a weird camera angle And it's like give me cancer. What is this? Is this supposed to like make me want to watch it? It's just weird and uncomfortable But it does it makes it makes the target demographic want to watch it And that target demographic is like 10 year olds. Yeah 10 to 10 to 13 year olds I recently heard someone say that 10 year olds don't really watch cartoons anymore No, I don't remember hearing some of that. They don't it's they don't really watch cartoons anymore It's more they play more minecraft than anything and that cartoons nowadays seem to Cater more towards kids in high school or people that are old enough to have watched older cartoons Which did appeal to them as kids. Yeah, I think it's I that doesn't sound wrong to me I think a cartoon I mean, I think they can appreciate a cartoon for what it is But I've even seen like the attention span has gotten so short that even something like a cartoon Unless it's just constantly wacky or super popular. That's the other thing kids love popular things Yeah, it's really bizarre. We have a weird friend obsession going on now You know, they talk about how kids are actually very honest about things like, you know If they you know, they're just like like overtly honest and they don't see a shame in telling you exactly what they feel Right, exactly. But at the same time They are highly susceptible to trends and highly susceptible to fads. So it's a weird balance So like they are super honest about things But at the same time when you ask them if they like this video If everyone in their school likes it their answer is yes. Yeah, so it's not even it's like well I mean it's kind of a social pressure. I remember even as a kid. I was doing the same thing where it's like You had to like I mean you can ask Jeff Musical theater in high school is the exact same way It's just like you have to fit in or else you get spit out I spent most of my senior year by myself because I didn't agree with what the theater kids were doing I didn't agree with how it felt. No, it's Jeff you were busy up doing exams for the most part. I was I was sort of there Yeah, Jeff and I went to high school together and we did Musical theater and that sort of things. I make you you had a background in theater, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah, you did uh What was your uh degree in college? Uh acting yeah, I got a bfa and performance arts from the way you know Fancy. Yeah, nice I got I got a quarter million dollar degree from A school and essentially I got a degree in back rubs and make believe I hate that I hate that about theater like half the time you're spending it like let's do like a warm-up massage And it's like I don't want to touch that dude. Would have been nice if uh part of part of that uh Quarter million dollars went to like actual, you know Getting a job or some kind of placement. That's the thing like I I'm only gonna say this and then I'll be done I don't want to bore people with this the thing about in London because I went to rata as well the royal academy of dramatic arts in London Oh, wow and and the way they do their Don't just throw that out there. That is actually a very impressive thing to do. It was it was through nyu Still impressive. There was like yeah, there was like 14 of us that went out there and it was it was a pretty fun here but uh Anyways, so yeah for theater geeks who like shakespeare But the thing was is that in london or at least uh in it where we were They only release as many or graduate as many people as the industry kind of needs Oh my god You don't run into this situation where in new york every Everyone wanted at least when I was there everyone wanted to be an actor Um, and I'm sure it's still that way to a degree. Um, and obviously in l.a. It's that as well But everyone wanted to be an actor so these schools would just graduate class after class after class hundreds thousands I mean the city was just pumping out actors and the actual ratio of people who had work Was so miniscule it was in the hundreds of a percent And not only that then you times that times the uh Uh, how many people were actually in the union and I was in the union at the time But even within the union like the ae at the time I guess they merged it with sag but um Even then the percentage was so So tiny it was not a full percent. Yeah, not even close to a full percent And in order to get any of the benefits that you pay for regularly through your dues You have to work at least like 18 weeks or whatever it was in order to get any of the benefits And that's difficult to get in the sort of it's funny because like I was talking to a friend about the the japanese game market versus the american and in a lot of media Because I watched this series called game center, which it's a show that started in 2003 in japan And it's essentially the first let's play series. They've played they've played everything They've had like 16 seasons at this point and they're usually a little bit shorter So that's how they're able to fit in over the past couple of years Um, they've played things like link to the past mega man all these sort of things Um, and they have these assistant directors who come on the show Regularly and my friends like every season the assistant directors change. I'm like, why is that? Why do they not have a consistent crew? And it's like the studio hires the crew who then go to different sets to work on these films And I'm like, so they work for the studio for a longer period of time It's like, yeah, that's the case whereas in the u.s You get hired for a project and then as soon as it's done you no longer have that job in japan A lot of game companies they'll hire an employee to work there for a period of time on certain games Here in the u.s. We've adopted more of a uh temporary basis model Yeah, and it's it's it kind of sucks here I mean there's more opportunity But at the same time you're more likely to not have a job most of the time Well, I think that's why you're starting to see so many of these guys do kickstarter games And it's actually the same reason why you know I feel more confident with working with the sleepy cabin guys than I do trying to go out and get a quote-unquote safe animation job Studios are dropping people left and right whether it's animation or video game I mean you look at kanami right now you look at um with video games And and then you take a look at like pixar or or disney or um dreamworks Who have periodically been having these huge layoffs of their animation departments? And when I was asked, you know, why don't why don't you just get a safe animation job somewhere? First of all, I don't think I I don't have a background in animation I do it now and I love doing it. But I've seen people who can animate I have friends that can animate and I I may be a concept guy do a degree and yes I can execute to a degree But I don't trust my skill set in a professional setting like that like that You don't feel like you'd be comfortable being like told to do a certain thing and then do Right exactly if people want to hire me for concept stuff If people like what I've produced and then trust me to be able to execute something whether I hire my friends Who I think are awesome Um into execute a vision. Yes, I'm definitely comfortable with that But you put me on the line with everybody else with the 500 other koreans out there I'm going to be literally wait. I'm going to be the Ganondorf in the back. No one's going to want to hang out with me You're going to be bottom tier. You're really good at what you do, but like you're specialized Right and so it's just interesting that like Um as far as you know these safe jobs, it was like there are no safe jobs Like someone someone telling me to go and get like this safe animation job It's like do you you don't understand the climate right now if anything is safe right now It's doing your own thing. It's doing your independent students Right independent connect with your audience personally give give what you know, these people want don't have the 12 Fox execs at the top saying yeah border town is a good idea No, you you get the the people down at the ground level who know the fans who love the stuff And then create something that you enjoy that you know They will enjoy and listen to them while you're making it and that is what I think all these independent studios Who do it right like shovel night and like Um Freakin uh, you go lately skull girls. Yeah, I might number nine girls Um, you know, there are certain companies that listen to the people they do what they you know And then with the animation stuff as well smaller animation groups So then go out listen to the fans and it's not just like you're a slave to your fans It's you want to give them Stuff that they don't even know about but you know, they're gonna love you Right, exactly. They're just gonna trust you. They're not just right. They're not giving you orders So they're they're the ones saying hey listen, here's some money or here's my support And here's some things that I might be interested in you doing more right. I know what you've cooked in the past I'm gonna let the chef decide you guys cook something amazing. It's like, all right You close your eyes because this is gonna be a buffet in your face And and I think that that is a much more I I am bummed out to hear about Um, Kojima, I am bummed out to hear about, you know, these studios laying off people But I think what it is doing is kind of letting people know creating a new environment, right? There's two ways you're gonna go. You're gonna go to the corporate Hey, we got our bottom line to fill and then you're gonna have the independent artists who are going to create their thing And I think we've seen from the ukuleles and even the blood Stain what's it called blood Blood blood stain blood stain. Yeah, um, you know that fans Are there support is there and you don't need it's a it's a dream that people have had since the beginning of these sort of Like since the beginning of animation since like music in the 70s and things right and it seems more feasible than ever Oh, yeah, totally because there's such an easy way to connect with people so easy for people to give you their support Whether it be monetary or through vocal support and for them to spread the word about you Um, it kind of reminds me because you were saying like the animation Field right now is very unstable and studio like steven universe and uh gravity falls which are two of the more successful like almost crazed fandoms Like that would probably be I guess cartoon networks bigger hits Or no cartoon network in disney because But they've been uh, they've been delayed. They're on they're on hiatus because of financial reasons I don't know. There's just they're just on hiatus and what that means is that those those animators are out of a job Right, completely. They don't have anything that they can be doing and it's it's strange because like you imagine that that would be a You you'd imagine that would be the job that would be would be stable But it isn't right now and and it hasn't been but then and then if you look at it if you said, you know what if gravity falls was uh crowdfunded That they would probably be making more money And then there would be no there would be no hiccups in terms of their delivery Yeah, like there would be so much money going to that um That the actual creators would be pocketing and not the networks. It's funny because I I looked at uh bravest warriors in adventure time It's by the same creator and I really love what he does with bravest warriors I do not like adventure time at all Because you're talking about pennilton work. I think so Because he didn't really create bravest warriors. Oh, I thought he did he's he's well I don't know exactly what his involvement was per se, but I know he he was more of like the front He's you know what I mean? Like he was he's definitely a part of it I think he was an executive producer and he also executive producer means like nothing Well, no, and I think it's an honor character designs and stuff like that I I do think he was involved, but I don't believe like he was As heavily involved. I believe that they just kind of three pennilton words name Along with it right kind of like a set. I don't want to this sounds terrible This is a terrible analogy, but like a Seth McFarlane on borderlands like or border town like the the idea that uh A big name on something that is not necessarily made by them, but he kind of Yeah, yeah, well, yeah, and I think it's more than just money. I do think no no No, it's often it's often like I will support this and put my like public Support behind this and so to be like all right executive producer credit because so sorry I interrupted What what did you notice about um, I was gonna make a comparison it still kind of works But it would work better if I had known that events Um, but essentially that I look at these two shows and I can and it's like you see Adventure time which is a show that is produced by Cartoon Network. It's owned. I guess by the studio to an extent it's and it's I feel like it's so limited because it tries to be this thing. It's very adult in its content content and it's hidden and it's hidden meanings But I feel like instead of using that as kind of an advantage It kind of limits the show's potential and it makes it something that is Almost unbearable to watch for me because it feels like it's stifled Whereas with bravest warriors it just kind of feels like everything's out there and it's allowed to be itself And I like that and I think that's kind of a big thing is that like Because we have such an A landscape that allows you to be yourself and allows you to make even your own company I mean Rooster Teeth was built by people that just wanted to make their own content Yeah, but are you saying that you think that those the reason why that show Is that way is because it's a studio executive. I don't think so I think that I think those types of messages come from I think those come from a creative standpoint I don't think the networks give a or give a crud about Um, yeah, I don't I don't think the studios give a crud about that kind of stuff If anything if you're getting a sense of um, some kind of morality You know stint or some kind of like a mature or whatever I'm I'm going to guess that has less to do with the studio and more to do with The actual creators personally personally, I don't I don't know if that's true But that's what I I think they I think studios probably want a little less of that And probably want a little I know, I mean like it's usually more They're looking for something that's more marketable and less like Right, but that's the thing that adult messaging is not marketable. Yeah So they kind of they if anything that would be more against it. That's what I'm saying Is that like they might be like saying like hey We looked at the script for the next like season and we don't like this joke because it's too It's not it's not good enough or like we don't like the story. It's it's too mature It's too dark too heavy and I mean they have had some darker episodes They hadn't hold up so there was like a prequel that was like an apocalypse thing as far as I can Right. I mean it is on cartoon network. They do have to limit exactly but like with Animation independently you can do whatever you want. You don't have to like limit yourself and I mean through limitations. There comes Uh Brilliant, but at the same time it's it's sad to see that that is the case Of you I I still prefer adventure time because it has more of a structure and like what it's trying like the uh story Right because bravest warriors jump. Oh, I haven't watched I'm not gonna lie. I haven't watched much one of them is mostly It's supposed to be this kind of episodic You know you need to tune in any time and watch for three minutes on your iphone And it doesn't really matter and then you have the linear kind of storyline that's being told With adventure time. Yeah, they're not really comparable. It's just taste. I guess if when you prefer I enjoyed both Because it's really good I haven't seen it. It's cute. It's cute. I I think it tries a little bit. You know, it's got good references and things like It's got good references. Um, some of the some of the stories are Give some yeah, what I was gonna ask mick as an animator If nintendo were to talk to you today and said we want you to make a legend of zelta series And i'm assuming you you know about the original show Possibly have seen it. I know some people haven't What would be one of the first things like I mean, there's there's the like the the fact link talks and like Would there be anything that you would make sure that would be involved or like completely like just swept under the rug Um, if you were given control of a legend of zelta animated series because we we know that netflix is working on something We know that uh, sony has offered has offered bids for it We know that people are wanting to make it happen So what do you the number one the number one thing I would do is I would not set it in any particular world I would not set it in any pre-existing world of zelta. Okay, because Right off the bat you're aft if you do that Every because no because you have there's a certain amount of expectation like we said before everyone has their interpretations especially of the zelta world and the timeline um, if you were to go and try to If you were to try to work with anything that already pre-existed in terms of like set, you know You know a set world that we know of already People are going to be there's just going to be so much. It would be such a hassle and no one would be happy You would not be able to please anybody So I think the first thing you need to do is like whip out like a wind waker, you know I mean just like whip out a new world whip out a whole new thing Um, the idea is that we have a kid and he's link. He's the new iteration He's pre-teens or teens Something like that. Yeah, I would make him a kid. I like the idea of him being a kid. You like younger. All right Yeah, um, can that be our hashtag for the episode not not like I'm young not that one Uh whip out a wing whip out a wind waker Yeah Well, no, just see you know what I mean though just like an original stick shaped thing So it's kind of world that's that's you know clearly. I mean, yeah, you can work it into the history, but Um, but yeah, I think that that way you can create a whole new Lexicon of characters and if people want to make that into a game eventually great, you know, that's fine but I think You know actually I think if you were to make a show Of zelda and you were to create your own kind of new world for link and zelda and ganon that They shouldn't make a game of it actually that it that should almost be like its own thing You know what I mean? It should stay as an animated show. They should take advantage of making it exclusively for the medium And that's the thing that I've I kind of talked about I've talked about before how like You you have these like like Caleb and my I've had this discussion before like how he doesn't like to have games Turned into shows or movies or books or anything like that um And I think that With the medium that you're using there there are certain rules that are unwritten But have to be followed. Don't pull the sonic move Yeah, never do a sonic. Yeah, see that's that that's the problem that I think is a big problem Is when you have the show and then you have the game I I know what Networks are thinking. Um, but you you really gotta I don't know. They're just it almost always seems like when you do that you're setting it up You're setting one of them up to fail, you know, they're gonna be compared They are always it's like, you know, you have twins. Which one do you like more? I mean, it's just gonna happen Yeah, and I think that any sonic boom debate. I think the show won by far Yeah, and then not only that But it's not only do you divided focus not exactly. So not only are you creating a divided focus But especially with that genre like a sonic genre, you're gonna get the people that are like sonic boom is the best Right. No, you will you'll have that and then and then obviously with that you'll have the sonic boom is the worst And it's a joke. I mean unfortunately both the game and the show are terrible. Oh, yeah 100% the idea Right, but what you're doing already is you're taking one entity that you want everyone to like and creating something That's already gonna have and like they're already gonna be clashing on it. You know what I mean You're creating two chances for failure instead of focusing on one overall success Right, or you're just creating one right one big failure that everyone fights over. Yeah Right, so I think that if you were to take like a like a zelda Game or movie or series make that its own thing allow that to exist in its own World if you want to be able to work that into the history fine, you can do that But not through again. I mean that's exactly what they did with the original animated series I think people have been screaming that since we started this conversation That's exactly what they did where it's it's its own link. It has its own story. I mean I think you could argue it's Link to the past or something of that nature because that was what came out at the same time But it's it's in my opinion clearly its own series. It's its own world It's done reincarnation of the hero, right? Yeah, and I think that that's what's lovely about, you know, it is very Japanese It's very folklore Right in terms of the mythology of a character that exists Again and again and again and again. He comes back in the different forms He has different powers. He's a different past. He's different. It's a different world But is the same character there is there's a connection But it is not so strong that it overpowers everything else about that character. Yeah, there's um There's a myth. I forgot what it was one of you guys may recognize it or somebody who's listening might There was a story about these two lovers Uh, there was a the man and the woman and the idea was is that in this story It may have been like a like a Middle Eastern story. I can't remember but The the man and the woman were born again and again and again um, and no matter where they were born Their whole purpose in life was to find each other But they kept being reincarnated again and again just throughout history Oh, you know what they did make a movie about it. They made it. I think they made a really terrible movie about it With like Halle Berry and some I don't forget. Anyways But anyways, I love that idea in that concept. It's very mythological in terms of like People reincarnated to take on a role that they consistently take and they have no memory of it Um, they don't even know it But that is the role that they have to play and I think link is they always have that and the link is all the again and and just like they I love that idea about it. And um, I don't think it would make I don't think you'd really fully be utilizing a series like the potential of a series if you banked it off a pre-existing Uh storyline, you know, I mean, yeah, I feel like you'd be wasting an opportunity to expand that, you know right Well, I think that's all the time we have for this week. Uh, thank you so much for joining me guys I had a really fun time. It was a really cool discussion, especially to Wow, okay Later Just like immediately hangs up and blocks me on all social media Yeah, I hope you guys enjoyed your crowdfunding cast. Yeah, I sure did Uh, if you like this episode if you liked mick, uh, check out sleepy cast sleepy kevin Check out rice pirates youtube channel and his patreon and uh jazz No, you should totally actually check out actually really do it's um as kaleb described it It's the parts of this podcast where we gotta off topic, but even better Um and they're no, I'm not even gonna compare us. There's is actually like christine. Oh, gosh No, it's a it's a great. I listen to it every week. I love it. Uh, I'm a little bit behind. Uh, what? Nothing, I said I was gonna smack his face Oh, oh geez But only if you're a good boy Look who's the nun. Well, who's the naughty boy now. All right guys. It's true. Uh, thank you jeff mick. Caleb, uh Yeah, so uh, this was episode 36. Thank you later guys. Oh my god, that was that was awful Yeah, what did you play? I didn't play anything. I screamed. It was a heavy metal man. Yeah Oh, but that's existing. Can I listen to it? It does exist and I'll I'll see if I can dig it up It's called the fall in it. It's somewhere. I think one of the guys One of our old friends who was a producer. He still lives in Malaysia He, uh, found one of our eps and I think he uploaded it. Um on soundcloud. So I Sicked I'm not gonna brag about it. I mean, you know what the guy was kind of my best work of all time No, no, no the guys in the band were all really good. They were actual musicians I was just like some screaming front man, but um, it was a lot of fun Welcome to being a singer You're just the guy in the front screaming and asking for all the attention. Well, you're trying to get murdered this podcast Don't you? Yeah, pretty much I think that's actually Jeff Well, I don't know. I don't know. I've made it this far. I think you'll be fine. Thank you We'll see. Um, but like I I don't know Jake regularly does not wear pants for this podcast not wearing pants for this podcast I have something you specifically do like time to record a podcast and you just strip down pretty much Actually, yes, it's weird because like I have like probably 30 plus sound clips of Jake taking off his pants Those must be some loud ass pants This isn't on the it's a struggle for him because he's kind of like this unzip and then there's the shifting And then there's like a little bit of a jump and it's weird. There's like all this movement going on I'm kind of concerned. I feel like I should call someone Get him to adapt. If this isn't like if this isn't in the ending bit. I I might cry I mean, if this was the ending but it would end right about here