 This is Stink Tech, Hawaii. Community Matters here. Hi, I'm Jay Fiedel. This is Stink Tech. We want to teach you about what it's like to be a lawyer. We want to explore life in the law, you know. Some people are not going to go to law school. Some people are going to go to law school. They say going to law school is good for you, like when you're like cast a lawyer, I guess. Nobody likes law school, right, Brad? I actually had a great time at law school. And they say it's great cross-training for all kinds of other professions besides law. So it hasn't turned out too bad for either of us, Jay. It helps you in life in general, right? Yeah, exactly. Brad Coats, he's the founder and senior partner now of counsel in Coats & Fry, which is right here in this building, and it's a firm. It's kind of unique. It's a big firm, relatively speaking, and it's only on matrimonial issues. What an interesting life you must lead, eh? Well, it turned out to be pretty interesting. We wound up being the biggest divorce and family law firm in the state, and one of the actually large, the boutique sort of firms were actually one of the larger ones. And I've run it for, I don't know, 35 years now. I started out and they had a bigger firm. They just said, here you're the new kid on the block. Go do the divorce law. We haven't got anybody covering divorce. So that's how I got into it. It wasn't a real intelligent career choice. Well, you kind of liked it though, right? And you must like it now. You spend your whole life in it, really. You know, it's one of the few areas of law when you think about it, where when you start doing it, you're actually in a position to do something useful for people. I mean, so much of law is BS, no offense to other lawyers. But I mean, you know, you could spend a lot of time chasing these cases around, you know, paperwork, you know, trying to go to court, cost everybody a fortune. When you become a divorce lawyer, people are coming to you at a really critical juncture in their lives. What do you know? What do they say? Yeah, I mean, one of the key junctures that's going to pick the road not taken in their lives and they're trying to get through it. And you could actually, if you're a conscientious divorce lawyer, you can really help them through it. It doesn't have to just be the medics down the middle of dividing up their assets the way most divorce lawyers tend to do. You can learn the psychology and the demographics and the sociology behind the divorce and the impact on the families and where that all goes and impact ultimately on society. So that's what's gotten me more interested when I started writing the book and stuff like that. That's actually been an area that I think we can actually do some good in. Yeah, you can be a healer, actually. Ideally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's really remarkable. And I've known you for a long time and I must say you're a positive upbeat guy. And that's a kind of stressful occupation because your clients, at least if you give them a chance, they will make you their agent to do damage on the other side. They will make you their warrior, you know, their nemesary to visit destruction in an adversarial kind of situation. But you've avoided that. You've maintained decency, which I think is very important for all lawyers to do. Well, divorce with decency is the title of my book. It's kind of the mantra for our firm. And actually you're not doing your clients any favor to turn them loose in a gladiatorial kind of a deal. It just costs them a ton of money and prolongs the pain and the agony. I mean, you know, most lawyers can divide by two, which is most of what divorce law is about. I mean, you're just carving people's assets up and bringing them down to custody and stuff like that gets trickier. But, you know, for to prolong these things for these people, you're just not doing anybody any favors. And the court system is so jammed up because what's basically happened in the family court is that society has dumped all of societal problems into the family court. The juveniles, the alcohol and drug addictions, the, you know, the spouse abuse, all this stuff into family court. And, you know, there's thousands of these cases going through every year. And, you know, the courts actually want to see a firm like ours, I think, and get them done. I mean, you got to get these things handled. Of course, the best thing is if they work it out, husband and wife work it out themselves, then try to be decent with each other and, you know, come to terms either to resume a reasonable matrimony relationship or to have a reasonable separation. I remember one case that I had where they had agreed that their best friend would determine the settlement of the property. Okay, and they sat in a room with him for an hour and he listened to both sides and he said, I've heard you both. This is what I think you ought to do. And they had promised to abide by what he was going to decide. And that was the basis for a property settlement agreement. And they went to court on that and had it, you know, confirmed in court and that was very civilized. Kind of an early approach to a trusted mediator. Yeah. Well, that's probably, you know, come up in your time, hasn't it, the idea of mediation, the idea of a very civil divorce where the third party tries to cool things down. And he's not a lawyer for either side, although he might be a lawyer professionally. And he makes it civilized. Mediation kind of caught fire in about the mid-80s and the family court has tried to incorporate it into its proceedings as much as possible. You know, they sort of, there's sort of escape routes where if there's domestic abuse or something like that, it's not safe for the couple to be in the same room and then maybe they, you know, they're not appropriate candidates for mediation. But I think almost everybody's an appropriate candidate for mediation. I mean, you know, it's certainly a smarter way to go. It takes forever and it's very expensive to get a case in front of the family court judges. Yeah, a contested case, that's really expensive. Contested cases just to give you an idea between the difference. I can do, we charge a $500 retainer. It's the same as I've charged for the last 20 years. I can't claim that's all it's going to ever cost. But I mean, that's what it's to start with. And if the clients can fill out the paperwork, talk to entails really to their spouse, let us coach them along the way. We can get people divorced within, you know, three to four months, relatively cheaply, you know, a thousand bucks, 1,500 bucks. As opposed to a contested case where every attorney is going to want at least a $5,000 retainer to start, the fees could go to $50,000 or $75,000 or $100,000. And it'll take a couple of years to get done. Claims in town cost almost $700,000 to litigate this case. Went on for years. Ouch. And the really remarkable thing is at the end of the day with the $700,000, there was no money left and it didn't pay the lawyers. And there was a crude justice, an ironic twist of fate there. Yeah, yeah. I mean, smart writers should try and figure out, you know, how much the client's going to afford, how much acrimony you really want to encourage or better yet discourage, and move ahead with the case. I mean, it's not rocket science. Yeah. Well, you've probably seen a lot of changes. Let's talk about your book, and then I want to talk about the demographics and the changes you've seen, you know, in your 39 years of practice now. Yeah, I guess. What's in the book? Well, you know, there's a picture of that book. This is about decency. And boy, decency is the guide word here for all lawyers practicing in all areas. There's everything in this book, and that's not an exaggeration. It starts with the institution of marriage and why it's sort of coming apart at the seams in modern-day America. You know, it's got tips on how to improve your marriage, how to choose your mate in the first place, why women and men communicate differently. It talks about the women's movement and what we call the she-economy, how the fact that women are progressing so far in society and maybe becoming a little more unhappy with their mates along the way. It talks about how divorce is going to impact the parties themselves, older women versus younger women, breaks it down demographically, talks about how it's going to affect the kids. It talks about all the property settlement issues, property settlement, alimony, custody, all the things that goes right through the drill for everything that's going to happen in divorce. It's got war stories. It talks about post-marriage, whether to get remarried, where the society's headed in general, whether there's going to be any marriage at all in another couple of years. Oh, what a great book. I'm going to look at this. Yeah, it's pretty comprehensive. That's why I've kept writing it. This is a fifth edition of the book. The first edition, I think, came out in 1998, 1999. I've been writing this damn book for almost 20 years. Changing it. And it's not like the law has changed all that dramatically along the way. And there are obviously some major areas where the law has changed. We didn't have same-sex marriage back when I started, for example. So now that's a new chapter, of course. But mainly, it's just how society has changed. It used to be when you and I grew up, everybody was married, right? I mean, that was kind of the deal. That's what you did. Kids grew up in intact homes. And everybody lived happily ever after, supposedly. Maybe it wasn't all that happy. But because the women had lower earning power in those days, a lot of women had to stay in marriages, whether they wanted to or not. That's all change. So now, and then cohabitation, people are just choosing to live together instead of getting married at all. The postponing marriage used to be that when I got out of college, the age for first marriages was 23 for guys, 21 for women. Now it's 29 for guys, 27 for women. So all that is a societal shift. And it's like, I compare it to, like, the Surgeon's General report on smoking. People were smoking. They came back from the war. Everybody was back a day of smokers in the 50s. And then we got a Surgeon's General report that said, hey, this could be a problem a few years down the line and everybody's going to get lung cancer. Well, we're marching ahead with almost no roadmap in this whole social media thing, the impact of pornography. Pornography is skewing relationships weird because guys get these kind of skewed versions of what sexuality ought to be like. So then they go home to their wife and it's out of sync with what they were watching on their smartphone. And it's goofy. So all this stuff is changing the nature of relationships. Social media and Tinder and this instant internet dating where you can just pick a new date every 10 minutes if you want to. That's all brand new. So it's really a rapidly shifting sociological and demographic phenomenon that's happening. And we haven't got any Surgeon's General report saying, what's going to happen when the nuclear family explodes and everybody's having kids out of wedlock? Right now, for women under 30, 50% of all the kids in America are being born out of wedlock. And overall, 40% of all the kids in America are being born out of wedlock. Now, I've got tons of friends that have kids without benefit of clergy. I'm not saying anything against that, but we don't really know where that goes. It goes somewhere, it's different. No, having relationships, just living together instead of getting married, without that extra glue that society used to have to hold things together. They break up at roughly twice the frequency as married. You've got the social pressure of everybody's in-laws and they keep it, keeping you married whether you want to be or not. And I'm not saying everybody shouldn't be a free agent if they want and spread their own wings, but it's changing because now you've got all these relationships breaking up, cohabiting relationships, breaking up twice as fast as they used to. Half of those relationships have brought kids into their relationship and now they're breaking up even faster. Isn't it true that people who are in a relationship or married at elderly age tend to live longer? I read that recently. There's no question, but especially for males, marriage is a good institution. For society, marriage is a good institution. A happy marriage has been predicted by economists to be worth about 100 grand a year. And men who remarry have a woman taken care of them and a healthier diet and they're needled about smoking or eating potato chips or watching too much TV all afternoon or whatever. Men live definitely much longer. It's healthier for society. The kids grow up in an attacked home. That seems to be healthier for society. There's all kinds of reasons why the nuclear family was a good idea, not just in recent day America, but for thousands of years that's been the deal. And now, all of a sudden, we're off on this new experimental program without a real roadmap as to where it's all going to lead. I want to unpack some of that. What you're really talking about is the home. It's not even fair to call it matrimonial anymore because this matrimonial may not be involved. It's the home. It's what you do when you go home and rest your head on the pillow. That's the life you lead. It's what you eat. It's your personal habits, your personal hygiene, your personal life. And somehow, that is included in being a matrimonial lawyer these days. One way or the other, isn't it true? It turns out that if people are given the choice, if you've got a prosperous society of first world western nation, a couple things happen. One, the marriage rate drops. Two, the birth rate drops. Right now, Singapore, the Asian Tigers, Korea, they've got the lowest birth rates in the world. The U.S. birth rate is low. If it wasn't for immigration, which President Trump may or may not blow apart, America wouldn't be refilling the tank. The Japanese are definitely not refilling the tank. The Europeans are slowly refilling the tank. Population-wise. So people stop having as many children. That was based on an agrarian economy where you needed a bunch of kids to go out in the field and pull the peaches and help somebody to can them. And now, as soon as you get wealthy, you have fewer kids. And also, you tend to not want to stay married. I mean, it's almost like if everybody had the perfect world, they'd almost have their own. The builders were starting to do this before the 2008 bubble burst. But builders were starting to build American, you know, McMansions. The way they used to, you know, you go to European castles and there's the King's Suite over on one end of the castle and the Queens down on the other. It was almost like, you know, they had their own little enclave. The marriage of convenience. Exactly. And that was starting to be the way they were going to construct American houses until they had to, you know, tighten it down a little bit in the recession. But everybody kind of likes their own space. That, you know, a lot of people don't want to be married at all. I mean, actually, married couples are now in the minority in American society. It used to be that everybody we knew was married, right? So we have a sea change, a major sea change going on. And you're in a great spot to observe that and to write about it. I really must read your book. When we come back from this break, Brad, I'd like to talk about how this is affecting American life at home right now and what we can expect. Let's speculate together. Let's make predictions and prognostications about how this is going to affect us, you know, in this Trump administration and for the decades after. I'll be so interested in hearing what you have to say. We'll be right back with Brad Coates. Ted Rawson here, folks. You're a host on Where the Drone Leads, our weekly show at noon on Thursdays here on ThinkDeck. We talk about drones. Anything to do about drones, drones, remotely piloted aircraft, unmanned aircraft systems, whatever you want to call them, emerging into Hawaii's economy, educational framework, and our public life. We talk about things associated with the use, the misuse, technology, engineering, legislation with local experts as well as people from across the country. Please join us noon on Thursdays and catch the latest on what's taking place in the world of drones that might affect you. This is the Cyber Underground. I'm Dave Stevens and this is a promo for our show. We air here on ThinkTech Hawaii every Friday at 1 p.m. Hawaii Standard Time. I'll be here usually with Andrew, the security guy, and hopefully with Hal, the networking guy. And our mission here is to make everybody safe with cybersecurity and to tell you what to do, how to configure your stuff, what to look out for, what not to do, what to do. Andrew, what else can we do? There's nothing you can do. We also have the Cyber Underground on YouTube. We have a whole channel there on YouTube, so just go to the Cyber Underground on YouTube and you can watch all of our episodes and watch a stutter and stammer through some of the most important topics you can have in your life today. Oh, and stay safe. Then we come back. I turned it into a whole other career. Okay, we're back. Oh, my God, we have this fabulous new issue we want to cover now that we discussed it in the break. And that is Princess Cruises. It's really interesting what you're talking about. And everybody should know and should think about these things and they're changing under us. We change no reference to cruise ships. But if you think about this and you make sort of prognostications and philosophical evaluations of what's going on in our society and not only in the US but elsewhere, you have a lot to say. People are interested. They want to know. And this is reflected in your cruise ship business. Talk about it. Well, after the book came out, I got a bunch of media coverage for that in the late 90s and I'd always loved to travel. I've traveled all around the world for years and I convinced Princess Cruises that I was the guide to talk about some of these societal changes and global changes, not just within a family but how that was going to have some ripple effects. I was getting older so I could talk about retirement planning as an attorney. You got to sort of broaden your shtick a little bit but I managed to lecture for them for 15, 16 years. Taking two or three cruises a year. People were fascinated. All over everywhere. And it went great. I got to like 130, 140 countries all for free courtesy of Princess Cruises. Yeah, but I mean, you have the ability to look not only in the dark side because if you're practicing law, you have to be ready to do battle if necessary. And everybody is in the same level of decency, frankly. But also, you know, you can help people. As you said before, you can provide them with positive input and suggestions about how to live a better life at home in marriage. This is extremely valuable and it's not a psychologist necessarily or a psychiatrist or anything like that or a marriage counselor. No, it's sort of life counseling based on your own experience. I think it's great. I've had a lot of clients tell me that, you know, that I've been more valuable to them than going to see a marriage counselor. Yeah. You know, I've probably done more divorces than most marriage counselors or any marriage counselor. I mean, I've done thousands of these things. It's not clinical. You're kind of, you're a lawyer in practice. You know what's happening in the community. You have your own database, so to speak. Not necessarily so with a marriage counselor. Yeah. No, it's been a really interesting profession and I've enjoyed it. It's one area of law, like I say, where I think you can actually do some good for people. So it's worked out well. Yeah. You know, you've heard, I'm sure, in most your audience, heard of the 80-20 rule where, you know, you get, in our case, we probably settle 80% of the cases that come through and it generates probably 20% of our revenue and the 20% that won't settle and have to go to court probably generates 80% of the revenue. And that applies to... So it should be, actually. Yeah. So, you know, I think you're doing your clients more of a favor if you can get them on a settlement track. So why do I think that the 80-20 rule is not necessarily what was happening in the 70s or the 80s? No. That you have seen these things, you know, affect the practice? So can you talk about the, you know, the way the practice has changed in this area over those years? Well, the, you know, the actual nuts and bolts of, you know, Hawaii divorce law can be broken down into a few areas. I mean, you've obviously got the property settlements. You've got potentially alimony. Although, you know, Hawaii is not a very strong alimony state. We only award alimony less than 9% of all cases. Is that right? This ain't the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills where you get alimony for life. That's because all the women work in Hawaii. That's right. Everybody's got to be two-income couples just to stay alive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then you've got child custody. So, you know, there's some areas like that that, you know, that you've got to understand. There's tax consequences. Everybody's, you know, everybody's home with their capital in Hawaii. That's changed. So that's you... Yeah, under the new Trump thing, today they're going to take away the tax deductibility of alimony or they're proposing to. So that's a major change. But the single biggest change of all has been in the custody area. It used to be when I first started custody, started practicing law here in the late 70s, I would... I remember trying to take a joint custody, joint physical custody agreement in front of an old-style judge. And he said, hey, this will never work. They can't share custody. You've got to give the kid to one or the other. Come on. And then over the years, they've done follow-up studies with the children of divorce that say that... And they go back and contact these kids, what was the toughest thing about your parents' divorce? And they always say, well, the hardest thing was being separated from either parent. So that led, you know, the touchy-feely Marin County therapists in California started, well, then we all have joint custody so they can continue to see, you know, both the parents all the time. So joint physical custody is now kind of the law of the land. And as I was mentioning to you earlier, that kind of gets, you know, forced down your throat. I mean, you've got to still be living in the same state. I mean, if people are going to relocate away from Hawaii, it's hard to have joint custody. But if it's possible, the courts will push you towards joint custody. So that now has spawned some unintended consequences because one of the only ways you can... somebody who wants sole custody can get out from underneath having joint custody shoved down their throat is to make some allegations about either drug abuse, alcohol abuse, or domestic abuse. So now the TRO, the Temporary Training Order Calendar, where people are claiming abuse, has gone through the roof. And that has become almost as busy a calendar or busier calendar than the divorce calendar. And, you know, I've literally had to hire former prosecutors, former public defenders, because it's almost quasi-criminalized. It's the criminalization of the divorce practice now. Yeah. So that's probably one of the major things that has changed. It's really too bad to have to do your laundry that way. Well, it's expensive. And it's really, I mean, it's really hard to have divorce with decency. You've got to throw out these affidavits that accuse the other side of everything under the sun. I mean, it's ugly. But some of it is true. I mean, some of this abuse is true. Well, you had that ICOW case. The media interviewed me on that ICOW case where the guy stabbed his son and then hung himself. Oh, gosh. It was horrible. So, you know, it's nothing to be made light of. So much of that. So much of family abuse and espousal abuse. And I wonder, is your sense of it, Brad, that this is getting worse and that in a complex society where, you know, people can't make enough money to have a comfortable middle-class life in Hawaii, that the family breaks down, that the family has more violence, more abuse. Am I right to say there's a trend in that direction? Well, I, you know, I think that's probably an accurate observation. I mean, any time you get, you know, the opioid epidemic or something like that, that is happening, you know, people do that. People like that that is happening. You know, and people do weird stuff when they're under the influence of drugs and then people take to drugs when they're really, they've got nothing positive going on in their life. I mean, you know, that's what, you know, that's what you hear the concerns about them, you know, the disappearing middle-class and then these people have got no hope they start taking all these drugs that are so easily available. So, I mean, I'm sure that's a problem. You know, obviously, if you got people that are, you know, that are, you know, on the verge of homelessness, that puts economic pressure and matrimonial issues so that must be so complicated. Well, when I give talks about, you know, people always ask me, what are the main causes of divorce? And I usually talk about, you know, four of them. One is, you know, sex, either, you know, not enough inside the marriage or too much outside of the marriage. Money, it's what we're talking about, either too much or too, you know, if there's too little, it puts real pressure on the checkbook. If people get too wealthy, they get a little cocky and start going a little crazy sometimes. Family, you know, it could be anything from meddling in-laws to different parenting styles, different ideas as to how to raise the kids. And then the fourth one is this thing that women are much more serious about and we're not, as guys, all that good at, which is communication. Yeah, between the spouses. And women want more communication out of their guys. It's a fascinating statistic that women have something like 20,000 body language, what they call communication signals, either verbally or, you know, lifting their eyebrows or shrugging their shoulders or, you know, cross-eyed, you know, and guys have like a third of that, about 7,000. That's what John Gray writes in his men are from women are from Venus. And, you know, women are not happy with guys. So what should men do to avoid this? Well, they better communicate or their wives are going to divorce them. I mean, two-thirds of all the divorces in both in Hawaii. They come into you and say he's not communicating with them. You know, guys are born to compete not to connect necessarily. Isn't that true? You know, you think about it, you know, a guy grows up, you know, it's competing on sports teams, it's locker room talk, you know, you go to law school, you come out, you've got to be a junior partner, and then you've got to be a senior partner, you're competing all the way at the corporate lab. I heard Trump knows about this. Yeah, exactly. And women are, you know, much more into connecting. And so they are not satisfied sometimes when the guys just come home and, you know, drink a martini and put in their lazy boy lounger and just turn on the sports channel. And women are going, you know, but, you know, don't you understand? It's classical, you know. The beer and the petitions. Exactly. Don't talk to me, I've got to watch. So in a larger sense, though, and I know you've been thinking about this and I must read you book to find out more about it, but I'd like to talk about the grand sea changes, the sea changes to society. You know, we have polarization of wealth, total polarization. We have racial, what do you want to call it, racial stress and strain these days in this country, maybe being exacerbated under this administration. We have people who are really unhappy. And we have, as you said, marriage is maybe a declining institution. And at the same time, logically, marriage is what keeps things stable for a lot of people. Where is it all going? Can you talk to me about that? Well, from the standpoint of marriages, the biggest problem that I see on the horizon has been on the horizon for quite some time now. In fact, you wouldn't have think tech if it wasn't for the social media and all the impact that the internet has had. And again, when you think about the impact of the internet has been for marriage, it's incredible for relationships in general. I mean, it used to be that the two pillars of a relationship about meeting somebody and starting a relationship had to be proximity and timing. You had to actually go physically meet somebody all those marriages that came out of the wedding and the best man marries the maid of honor and they meet each other for a reality. Exactly. Or somebody that you went to college with, you actually knew who they were and had met them physically. So proximity and timing. Timing had to be right. It didn't do any good if the best man was married and the maid of honor was single then that wasn't going to fly. So you had to have people be ready for the relationship at their right time in life and you had to actually meet them. Well, when you think about what the internet's done, it's broken down both of those two barriers. Proximity is basically worldwide. I mean, you can go online and meet a girl from Croatia tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the timing is instantaneous. You can have a date with somebody at, you know, six o'clock dinner date and it's not panning out. You drop her off and, you know, at nine o'clock you text somebody else. The biggest black book in the world. And all these dating sites and stuff. So what that has done is you can have shorter term revolving relationships because there's this, you know, huge dating pool of conceivable linkages. So the old style of, you know, if I don't marry him or her, I'll never find anybody as wonderful, you know, you're from a small town in Nebraska and, you know, this is the only guy I'm ever going to meet in my life. I better go ahead and marry him. He may not be perfect, but that's over. That's over. So now there's all this short time. You know, there's no glue to hold any of this stuff together. So on a macro basis, this is not necessarily a good thing. On a national or international basis, on a social structure basis, not such a good thing. Well, I don't want to come on a tech show and be dissing tech, but I mean, you know, it has, it's going to have ramifications. I'm not even going to say whether they're going to be good or bad, but I mean, it's going to totally change it. Now you can basically I mean, they've got these websites now that are based on the GPS and you know, you live in New York, you know, you can, you can find out a couple of blocks away. You can find out within 200 yards and you know, and you can say, okay, let's meet at Joe's store. Now how is this going to affect the practice? How's it going to affect your firm coats and fry going forward? Well, there have been a couple of things. I mean, I run a good size firm. It's the biggest firm in Hawaii. We got 11 lawyers where, you know, it says, you know, when I founded the firm and I'm kind of going to look ahead and look at all those people. Yeah. So we've had to restructure the firm. The, you know, if divorce is not going to be as common because marriage, you know, it's not like people, it's not like the divorce rate is going down. The divorce rate is pretty stable, which interestingly, everybody thinks in terms of that, you know, half of all marriages in Indian divorce, it's actually about 40 to 45% of first marriages in a divorce, about 60 to 65% of second marriages and fully 75 to 85% of third marriages. Wow. It's hotter each time, man. Yeah. By that time, they got the divorce lawyer's cell phone programmed in your speed dial. So may you be more busy going forward with this fluid in-and-out testimonials. Except for they may or not be getting married. I mean, a lot of these people choose to cohabit instead. Yeah. But what they don't do is they don't stop having sex. Yeah. So the paternity calendar is a huge one because, you know, society, again, all these kids that have been born out of wedlock, you've got to figure out what to do with it if the couple splits up. You've got to figure out what to do with custody. Are there things at home? What about palimony? Is there palimony in Hawaii? Do you think there's palimony in Hawaii? Do you think it'll happen even in the absence of marriage? Well, I don't see any legislative changes to bring palimony to Hawaii, which is interesting because, you know, some states, I'm not sure, but I think Colorado has like seven years of marriage. I had dinner with a lady lawyer from Vancouver, Canada. She said that after one year, the courts will get in and start trying to monkey you around with everybody at property. But in Hawaii, you know, you can live together forever unless you've gotten married. You've got, you know, you go to circuit court like if a couple buys a house together, you've got to go to circuit court to unravel it. Yeah. Yeah. It's not a divorce case. So no palimony, that's the truth. It's out on that. So it's, but the paternity calendar where people still are having kids, you still got to decide custody and child support, we've beefed up our emphasis on that. And then the other area, of course, is this TRO, domestic abuse thing that's going on. She's probably going to have to work harder on that. Yeah. So, well, we're almost out of time, but Brad, I'd like you to pick a paragraph in your book and let people have the feel of it. And then maybe they'll check it out and put it out. This has to do with the impact of pornography on modern Interesting. That's what we were talking about. So, I was saying here, doesn't take a genius to realize that the more you can have sex literally, quote, handed to you exactly the way you like it, the more the, quote, real thing is likely to suffer by comparison. Now that anybody with a smartphone can order up personally customized, including extreme or perverted sexual desires, as delivered by sexual skillsets beyond the capabilities of most mere mortals, how long does it take before the fantasy fetishes replace and dramatically diminish real human relationships? It appears that porn is literally rewiring the brains and bodies of many of its aficionados. Aficionados. So, so, you know, in terms of writing style, you're right just the way you talk. You're unified talking, writing is all the same. Thank you so much, Brad. Great discussion. I'm available. I'm only six years up. Brad Coats and Fry, matrimonial lawyer for 39 years. Thanks so much. Hand counting. Thanks, Jay.