 Gringo What do you say does it get on for you from cringe or sells windows or something? He tells the scringing services who make the print so hard that you I don't know dude. Why am I would love him. He makes a great gift I miss us cringe remember with the well The thing that we watched He's like he's a cringe hunter I Babe in the cringe. I love me some cream Is that cruellet cringe illa d'aville You know it's interesting in that um Van Helsing is how movies as I say we should probably watch league of restorative element. That was like a year ago And then we did wow. We did wow What are the odds? I guess they have both halloween movies. How that works in a sense. They're pretty good. They're pretty good. Yeah Yeah, they're pretty solid. I would call them both cinema I would say so Of course now with christmas coming along. Are we gonna watch the home alone remake? Mm-hmm. I thought that was a gay guy going into a bank No, yeah home alone Oh Took me a second. It's homo loan though. This isn't It's all how you say it, you know Yeah, if you say it with your welsh accent, it doesn't It doesn't sound as you know homo malone That's that's yandu in yandu gaudi home alone No, that's seen where he's like hello, but I believe you guys remember that right you guys all around the racist Wow, he's blue. That doesn't mean I think all blue people speak like that What's interesting is that that line from yandu is better than anything we've gotten in the last couple years writing wise from in the mcu Just plays all phase four that it's like compared to That's a gibberish It makes sense. It's beautiful topknot All right, there's chat. I see you. Hello, everyone Top chung Hello chat. I guess did you guys like the venhal slums? What should hold? Yeah I haven't even yet Don't spoil it. Even though I was there Don't spoil it Um, I gotta know how it ends It was entertainment Um, that's some good stuff. Yeah, that's that's bullshit's editing. It really came to life. I believe Yeah, I had to shoot that sucker out in a week. I really wanted it to be done this halloween I didn't want to wait till the next halloween We were referencing amnesia rebirth and everything. I'm like, oh dude, please. We can't wait another year. This has to happen That hideous property chases us quite a bit throughout just everything. Yeah, you know where it also popped up It's in the current humble choice and I was very upset when I saw it in there Especially with the words we each try to get you the best games out there for Like Liars go to hell Why must you turn my office into a house of lies? I prefer the fucking uh A dead shot quote about lies. What does he say? It's like that's a lie. She's lying to you. That's not true That's a lie. She's lying to you. Yeah Just top notch dialogue. But yeah um Top notch entertainment hymors. I agree. Did you see I don't I don't know is this this this uh, they're making a Buzz light year film just like a film. Yeah, I saw a thumbnail of that Isn't the idea that our trailer? Oh, it's a movie that is inspired by that Yeah, the idea is it is the film that the toys are based off of yeah Which is why tim allen isn't voicing him is the the no, it's chris heaven Yeah, wait, what do you think I said? You said tim allen. I said tim allen isn't voicing him Yeah, no dude, it's chris heavens. It's chris heavens. He is playing him. Yeah I think what he was referring to is tim allen was the original buzz light year in the toy store. Yeah. Yeah The toy story one. I am toy story two toy story three and toy story four Including but not limited to additional shorts likely not that I would be completely sure of this as well as potential video game adaptations Or you know promotional material tim allen was indeed the voice of buzz Johnson light year I had to assume he's all american It's safe for people to assume that it would be tim allen, but no, it's it's chris heavens Which uh, you're gonna wonder how that'll go over, you know Yeah, exactly. Um, I guess the thing is is like you look at it and it's like I feel like at this point It's not even worth talking about like the visuals because that pics are just incredible at that This is like not even yeah comments are gone. So like you just gotta wait and see what it actually is You know, it's worth commenting on is I just found out thanks to tweeters that we got army of sorry army the dead came out We all loved it Planet of the dead they're making a good old sequel with zack and it's called something that already exists It's a robert rodriguez film called planet of the dead But he's called it planet of the dead too I'm sure it'll be way better And just to just to remind everyone army of the dead is one of the worst movies that I've ever seen in my life I don't I know I want to avoid hyperbole when I say that Yeah, it really is one of the worst movies that I've ever seen in my life. It's transcendently bad Well, like it is they're moving shockingly horrible They're movies that score high in terms of like consistency and then ones that score high in entertainment army the dead just like Refuses to do either of those things at all Like no, it's Yeah, it stands in stark opposition to the concept of quality The funniest thing in it. I think was when the paratrooper just drops down into an army of zombies He's just like, oh no, this was a bad idea I can't believe this happens shame so Yeah, I'm pretty sure the uh, I really liked it Oh god go for it. Oh, I just I was just gonna say I I really love the scene where they stopped to have a heart to heart About what the relationship could have been when there's a literal ticking time bomb because a nuke is coming to destroy the city What's only a nuke? Yeah, it's only a nuke I'm sure you can get just that arrangement. It'll be fine. Yeah, just run Uh, I'm pretty sure the uh, the the heist prequel is coming out this week. Whoo. We're not watching an army or no Fuck that. I'll watch. Yeah, I'll watch planet of the dead Which by the way, man, do we have to well, you know, I assume it'll be better than army of the dead No, why would you say that? Why why because army of the dead was hideous when you say that? I know it's hideous. I think it might be It might be sniders worst movie Uh, I mean army of the dead. Yeah, I think that I think it would be a fair choice I think he's only getting worse though. Well true because It's like he's a child like stop You need to tell him a lot of people get better as they get older, but he's like He refuses A button of director quality Oh, no, it's not his worst movie about a steal. Okay. Look an argument could be made for the lot of them I get it, but I'll be the dead My eyes Yeah That's gonna be worth something the army of the dead made me appreciate the real world and how clear it was Yeah, I'm pretty sure that film gave me a headache. Yeah, because someone was asking in chat I think that happened. I was like, oh same as night a cut. There was the two fucking movies that gave me headaches Both sniders like nice, you know, that's Alan Snyder cut and things were mostly in focus, you know Then again Snyder cut had the problem but hung on shots for too long a lot four hours long Army had the army the dead had a problem where it had shots It could have been better if it was just black, yeah, it didn't exist It would be better as an audiobook I'm not gonna lie. I thought I'm the dead had a decent premise, but the plot execution is not carried out well The decent premise It depends what the when you say the premise it depends on what you mean by the Zombies in Vegas guys have to do a heist like I guess that's yeah, but like I don't know I don't know if you should give that much of a reward for creativity when you cut with something like that it's like There's a lot of movies that have there's loads of B movies that have premises like that. They're like, ooh And then Yeah, they're executed real right. It's like how much is that worth that you came up with the idea, but didn't really do anything with it Yeah, so there's that there's also because this needs to be mentioned on e-fab Apparently there's no like 100 information just confirmation from uh, Ruby Rose herself that Dugris Scott is doing news on this channel starts off with a sentence apparently This is good news Dugris Scott is suing Ruby Rose for 10 million dollars. That's hilarious news That is funny though. Um because she said he was Well, so she's she's claiming it and that would mean that he would have had to have You know, it's like there would have been information sent to it likely he's threatened to sue her if she doesn't Um undo what she said about him, but She's uh, she's doubling down apparently so we could see that come to a more public level Hmm Obviously what she said about him was that he was a little bitch on set that he was abusive to I think stunt people Or assistants like he like he actually physically assaulted someone is is her claim I think she said he assaulted a girl or something like that. Yeah That's a pretty ooh that you do not want to lie about that sort of thing That is a spicy one Not only is he said she's just straight up lied But water brothers have backed him as well saying that he was very professional always is He asks, what did you bring me and we provide it like there's never any kind of He asked what we brought, you know, we brought him things. Yep. He fucked up that laptop nice and proper Yeah, he did man. Yeah, well, I steal that girl. I think jevisia leslie hasn't said anything about it Uh the current bat woman And the other thing is I saw a trailer for the flash apocalypse I think the flash apocalypse Which is the next crisis on infinite earth to apocalypse. Yes We're doing it across over a vet bat woman's gonna meet up with all the heroes. They're gonna save the day That's coming out. I think november We're doing that again. Yeah, we're doing that again Oh boy, we're gonna have to take we have to watch ryan meet up with all the fucking goobers from Because she's just got such a wonderful personality to play off of doesn't she Yeah Yeah, yeah, um and everyone in like that because I had a look at this I read it. See what they were saying about, um All of this the bat woman one and loads them were like super excited because they were like, oh, it's gonna be great for ryan to meet all these heroes And then simultaneously being like abuse on set is bad. Maybe she'll be learned something. Maybe she'll learn something doubt it By the way, I don't know if you guys heard about this But i'm in and among all the threats of what could happen next from ruby rose She said that she will reveal the email that caroline drives I think is the name of the person who wrote is she the showrunner Yeah, um that she's apparently said in an email at some point that they wish to monetize the lgbt community What now this should come across as no surprise. No surprise. Yeah, it'll it'll be nice to have it in writing, you know Yeah, I think that'll be wonderful. I think it'd be so funny if you phrase it exactly like that too Yeah, like that'd be very strange They're all hooked up to some machines and so slowly siphoning cash out of them Um Yeah, honestly This story has just been getting more and more interesting every day like uh cabris johnson I think the guy who plays luke fox was like Oh, he had a great tweet. Yeah, well to paraphrase his tweet was basically just uh, obviously that there's a reason one gets Taken away when they're the fucking lead. Okay. That's yeah mic drop. It's like, oh, shit Yeah Yeah, did he laundry flying everywhere? I don't know. Yeah boy Man, who would have thought bad woman is gonna get that spicy when we watch it? Like damn glad bat woman is as terrible on the inside as it is in the outside Yeah, we've got like three episodes to see by the way, we we fucking caught up and now we're Three behind already behind And it's not even my fault this time Hey, not at all, but yeah, we'll look forward to that Yeah, you know lots of things lots of things going on fun stuff She's gonna is ruby is gonna be blacklisted. No idea what this will do for a career, but I doubt the cw will like her anymore I I yeah, I don't know. I mean in a world that makes sense companies should be going Oh, do we want her around considering, you know stuff and things like I don't know everything She's certainly gone as a level of sympathy because of the whole spinal injury as well as just she has a lot of regular injuries because this What do you mean regular injuries like? Sort of It seems like she got hurt a lot and yeah on that While making that she posted like a little montage picture of all the different injuries she got And so Yeah Remember rags that there were a few people who were like other people who were seriously injured Uh, that's true. That's true. Yeah on that show Yeah, that woman who got paralyzed or like Town and they had to do a go fund to me because the I guess Warner Brothers was like nope We're not from what I've heard that happened because Warner Brothers hadn't yet figured out exactly how culpable they were because she Was on a phone or something like that Okay Still awkward though because she needed it Yeah, it's you know So anyway squid game Yay All right, we watch the television show welcome of course to efap 150 is this nine Yes 159 Uh, we there was this tv show that came out that everyone was talking about and I was like fine I'll watch it and then I was like, oh Hey freaking you should watch this. Hey mel. You should watch this. Hey rags. You should watch this And then das bolshet and capital opinions were like, oh, we watched the two and I was like, ew This is how it was shit They told us in private and emails that they thought it was really bad They actually said they were hoping to come on efap and monetize the long community. So I was like, hmm Yeah, it's true. I still don't know where they got my email from so I'm a little bit concerned, but We'll we'll deal with it. It's fine. It's fine. Um Um Yeah So that's our intro. Let's talk about this show. I guess Cool. Yeah, I guess the plan will be We'll go through it chronomom magically and then chronomagically we will um I I just try and do some some breaking apart as we go, you know a nice normal way of doing things Yeah, should we before doing such things have a little summary introduce our guests. Um, oh no These guys don't need introductions. They've been here lose the times. Fuck that shit I just put it out there get it. I appreciate it. All right. Let's do it rags. Welcome to the show Hi, you guys know who I am. I don't need an introduction. Oh, all right. So anyway, let's talk about squid game and how We'll we'll go would you want to go? We'll just do a summarization And since we usually go left to right, how about we go right to left? Fuck it right rags. You want to go first talk about just just I don't know in a short amount of time What did what did you think of squid game as a tv show overall me talking a short amount of time? Oh boy, I meant relatively Oh, okay, I'm gonna go take a nap So this So this show right I really like this show quite a bit um The premise was interesting I guess nothing Like too high-minded, you know, it's just a nice nice concept That was it's kind of like it this might feel like we're sort of almost Stacking on train to Busan where you get a decent build-up of characters And you learn a little bit about them to really start caring about them And you get character stuff filtered through the whole show And it's got really solid acting throughout the whole thing is very very impressive. Everyone was just sort of um Uh, just doing a great job With one asterisk that we can get to later but Great premise good design for all of the like the sets and the outfits and everything a great dialogue and conversations and uh, very emotional Great show. I I give it two two thumbs up out of how many Um, I I get a I two two out of two All right, you you how many limbs does a squid have then you can make a joke there, uh, 10, right? I have no idea. I've never even thought about it. I couldn't remember because I because the octopus is eight, right? Yes, I don't know. I don't I don't know what is the same. Yeah, I they got the two ones that are longer than the rest Yeah, my squid knowledge is on point fucking here So you should have said I give it 10 tentacles out of 10 I I'll give it 10 tentacles out of 10 There you go. Fucking yeah Nailed it. What's it like kettle memanda, what did you think? That's all the manda sounds like a african warlord kettle memanda. Yeah kettle memanda I don't even know what to do with this one. That's like I have to make new dames at least once per month ish, I guess Do you as a quota? Yeah, I mean names are given you at this point Should have mumble add that to the count mumble. Don't lose track mumble use Uh, yeah, I was really happy with the show overall I know if there's anything To add to what rags said without going into more detail really uh, like all the character Basically all of the characters acting was great Sets work great. They build up the characters nicely Yeah, without going into detail. I don't know what else to say really, so yeah, that's that's about it very well I shall go next. Um I like the show a whole dang lot of rooney I think the the premise is an easy hook for the average viewer But then they they they getcha with them character arcs them individuals going through this this world That can easily be relatable for all the different kind of people are gonna watch this I think there's lots to praise I also think there's lots to criticize And so we're probably gonna get to that today. I'd imagine I've seen all kinds of commentary for this show Both so I've seen people love it seen people hate it. I've seen loads of people say it's way overrated I've seen some people say it's not even close to original and I've seen a lot of people saying some stuff like Lol, you didn't even get it and like use it as their sort of blood It's it's their weapon, you know, it's like it belongs to my people not yours Yeah, this is not a this is one of those shows that is not it You're I promise that you get it You know, I think I don't think there's a show with a Super complicated sort of message, you know, yeah, but what team is it for? Yeah, it has to be a team. It can't just be a piece of media that we all relate to and enjoy in some way All right pink team I had a good time with it. Um I feel Yeah, I like those types of shows and movies where There's twists and stuff, but all the puzzle pieces are like there It's not sitting there trying to lie to you and stuff like that So you're able to if you were paying attention to certain things You could get reveals later on which is nice rather than like, oh, you just didn't see this at all But trust us this happened sort of thing. It wasn't any of that um, all of the characters motivations were pretty clear and um Yeah, I just I just I had a good time with it. It's really it's very well made All the camera work is really good and it kind of shows you what you need to see But kind of hide something in subtle manners if you're not paying too much attention. It's good stuff um, a few things that were There were a few things that were pretty predictable. Uh, we'll go into it later, but um other times, um It was pretty good stuff. They hid some things pretty well. Um Uh, I don't got too much else to go on right now. Uh, we'll just go further in depth from there But uh, had a good time with it Very well Uh, Fringoyd, what what is your comment to rary? Squid game is pretty neat Uh as a show But it ain't perfect It's It's it's a show that It's a really cool high concept that I think is meaningfully different enough from um from a lot of other get, you know Shows and movies of this genre like people competing in like a death battle Um, I think that it does a pretty good job of our utilizing its premise to tell Um Super compelling story with a lot of great characters a lot of great characters the characters are really the um What make this show shine? um The concern being that uh the plot i'm not so sure But uh, we we can get into that. Um, and I guess to because moeller mentioned it A lot of people have a lot of thoughts on this show um A lot of people think that this show is the show that supports their particular Like side of politics and it's really fucking annoying I would prefer if we could just talk about the show Story the characters. Yeah the story the characters the theme the fundamental themes of which I think there's a lot to talk about in this show It's it's a neat show that would that would that's the take it's uh, it's neat And I don't know if I want a season two yeah And finally capital oh opinions. What do you think? I think I might be the odd man out here. I thought there was a lot to like I thought aesthetically it was quite strong, you know all the sets the colors and design Of you know the pink men and the masks and all that fun stuff. I think the concept is really neat I'm not as concerned as some people are about originality. I don't really care that it's similar to other You know death survival competition shows or movies. I think it's a really interesting idea and it's ripe with potential for interesting character dramas and arcs and stuff, but I Uh, I would say there is more I didn't like than I liked Overall, I did not really enjoy the show. There are things I liked about it But I think they were outweighed by all the things that I had problems with and we will go into those so I was I was I was hovering somewhere around a tentative Five out of ten for me. Um, but the more I think about it the more it slips towards a four I'm willing to be convinced. It's a little bit better Written potentially depending on the arguments from you fine folks. So we'll see how it goes Uh, I would probably I'll try and slap a number on it when we get to the end There's so much to discuss the as well as think about in terms of How much to these these these floors actually go how far do they go you because I'm not 100% sure myself But what we'll probably do is give the people watching who haven't seen it Enough context to understand what we're talking about Um, as well as just recapping some events so that everybody has the capacity to talk about them as they prefer Um, I suppose there's nothing else to do in terms of preamble then just start talking about less squid the gamma Um Unless there's anything else anyone wants to say in terms of uh, I guess to get started off. No I I think that's a decent enough, uh starter for me at least. Yeah I'm glad we got someone who's a little bit more Hypocritical of it. I guess I say hypocritical more critical than the rest of us seemed to be because it's just um I know a lot of people didn't like this show. So I wanted to be represented, you know I mean, yeah, I kind of I try not to think about the show Um, too much because I knew we were going to e-fap on him and I watched the last three episodes Uh this morning. I woke up and I watched him before E-fap and stuff. So yeah, I went over a couple of holes myself Yeah, I didn't go too much into my criticisms because I know we'll get to it. So Very well We shall see We open on some kids playing squid game with a narrator explaining the rules And um, I suppose we'll probably return to talking about that little intro sequence when we get to the last episode Um in terms of potential relevance. Anyway, uh, there's there's little bits We'll probably try and put little flags in and so we can return to them as we as we go But yeah, that's the intro and it's just helpful for exposition and it's going to be one of those things where um Not enough. I think I think it was drinker. I was watching this with that said um when game six was coming up He was like, I wonder what game six will be. I was like, well Do you remember that first scene? Do you remember the name of the show? I could forgive If it would only because I don't know how many people know Squid game is even a game. But uh, when you see that opening scene, I feel like it becomes like, oh, this is very relevant Um, is that a game of thrones? It's game of squids Maybe that's the reboot. They'll try again. I don't know uh So we got our character introduction Um, so this is the thing about this that we kind of did with train to busan Well, we referred to everybody by their position in the story rather than their names I'm gonna try our very best to do that with Not everyone this time. Hopefully we'll we'll get some because because main character I believe is is it pronounced gihan? Is that how everyone? I think gihan. I believe so so we will try and say gihan. All right, everyone Because we watch this with subtitles and when they say the names and I hear the names. I'm like, I do not All right. Well, I will take your word for it It's just a different language. It's it's spelt song woo, but they say song woo. Oh Um, wow, it's like, what am I supposed to say? Yeah Yeah, gihan is gonna be our our main lad And um, what an what an intro scene you get straight away of essentially him being he's a complete child You got him like kind of yeah Uh, I I quite like how it's handled uh, the she puts money down and he immediately assumes It's his allowance and then she has to remind him that it's his daughter's birthday and that she's paying for the present He's gonna get Already it's like her butt off. He sucks so much. Yeah He's going off to work. He's in his skivvies in the living room sitting and eating And um can't buy her nice stuff with this money you gave me Credit to the actor as well. He's just the way that he delivers over his lies. It's such like It just makes me think of children. Yeah, just yeah Very childish. Oh my god Like isn't should we have more money based on like some of the work I've done And then she was just like that didn't even pay off your monthly loans Which is just whist and they're like, oh boy monthly loans. Damn Um, that oh and then he's like you work too hard. You're gonna pull your back out. It's like that That's an interesting way to complain Um, yeah, and the second she leaves he steals her fucking bag card Goes and pulls money out She really doesn't want him to use and he doesn't seem to care. He just wants to go to the horse races so bad Yes, uh, which gives you again all the information you need about What we hear his life is right now. He is like a chronic gambler And he's certain that his life is going to turn around the second he wins Um And then just it usually does right? Yeah, that's a mini gambler. Totally And um What's interesting is the pin number has changed it used to be his birthday And he's panicking a little bit and then he finds out that it's his daughter's birthday now instead And his conclusion from that is wow. She loves her granddaughter more than her son It's like Hit loser Um, so yeah, you there being a reason for that Uh, not a great first impression in terms of just like man, this guy is selfish Um Yeah, and then we we because again There's gonna be stuff that we're gonna miss in terms of summarizing it and talking about it because it's fucking nine episodes That are all mostly an hour except for like, is it just the one episode? That's a half hour Yeah, I was surprised by that one Oh, is it? Yeah, the second to last one as the like 30 ish minutes Hmm. Um, I forgot that but yeah They he gets the pin right he pulls out some money bets on some Horses and he actually goes with I think it's his daughter's birthday in terms of a month and year and um The first he loses but then he wins Gets himself 4 million won Which is the first of the time in this show. Well, maybe not the first but certainly What of the way a viewer is like, what is what is that in real buddy though? What is this? Yeah, it's it's a little uh, it's a little You get a little confused and yeah, there was a spike in google searches for uh, what is 45 billion watt in uh In whatever currency because that is an important number for the show Um So, yeah, uh, he is real happy about that and he immediately, um I think he gets does he give 10 100 000 to the um the cashier? I think it's 10 000s 10 000 which I believe is like eight us dollars something like that So I thought it was four four million one was was the number, right? Yeah, that's what he won. Yeah in total. Yeah. Yeah. So that's 3,417 dollars in usd Well That's something I thought that's pretty considerable amount actually so I guess it depends on how much he owes He tips are 10 000 one and that's eight. Yeah eight and a half united states dollars. Yep Well, uh, yeah, he gives it that I think the friend is like, what do I get? He's just like, should I fuck up? Um, they head out Yeah, I think he's on the phone to his door to be like, I'ma buy you a great present You know great food and then before you can finish he sees like I guess loading sharks being like, hey Mr. O's is like And uh begins he starts running the fuck away and bumps into somebody Which I think on first viewing you just be like, oh how unfortunate, but then uh, He's out That that that person has managed to sneak his wallet out of his or I think she cuts it out She has a little knife that she does. Yeah, she cuts the bottom of his uh, his pocket A nice thing too is like I thought that knocking her down was just a chance for them to realize like Oh, he's not completely irredeemable. Look, he even tried he even though he's fighting for his life and running from people really desperately He still takes the time to lift her up and fix her drink and everything So I figured that was just a characterization moment, but it was it was to ply I was gonna say yeah, I still think you're right on that with um He's literally running for his life and he's like, oh, I'm so sorry. Are you okay? And it's just like that's that's important. I think he like puts the straw back in her drink or something. Yeah. Yeah Um, and so yeah, uh loan sharks are like gotta give us your money And then he realizes as well it's gone and they just give us a little replay of that scene and they do this I think I noticed it. Um They do it for that they do it for something his daughter says and then they do it for the detective realizing something about the card Where they replay scenes in like a couple of seconds Um, you can always tell that it's from the POV of a character realizing something So there's there's definitely room to be like totally chill with it But uh on rewatch is just like a little bit clunky. I kind of wish they wouldn't but it's Oh, I'm sorry. He's not yet begun to clunk Well, there's I think there's like god Oh, sorry, uh, I sometimes I feel like that might be a cultural thing I noticed that like in a lot of Asian storytelling they do those flashbacks a lot So I don't know if that's just a thing that is common in their culture or something And we just do it less or at least we try to So I don't know. Maybe I could be wrong about that, but I noticed that's pretty common in that anyway there's some that I think work because it's about Discovering something new that happened in that moment like he like that's when he realizes that the wallet is gone But there's other times where it feels like they just replay the exact same scene that you remember from like, you know Five to ten minutes ago and so yes. I remember we didn't see anything new that time You know, you know, it's it's when it adds more information. It makes more sense I think you could argue that seeing hip-hop into him again straight after it gives you a better sense of like Oh, that is we actually could have taken it there. Yeah Yeah, yeah, that one works for me. I'd say the card one. I can't remember them Card one I found really awkward So I want to chat us pointing out a good something that might possibly be an explanation They said that Asians actually have flashbacks in real life That could potentially explain why that's done here. Like we wouldn't understand that Yeah, yeah Um, as a result of not paying his debts and not being able to pay anything extra today They make him signed. Um, that he's giving away is Bodily autonomy I think or something like that like the rights to his body Organs essentially yeah, like the idea being the now that he signed that they will take his organs next time if he doesn't pay up Um, is that because I'm very unfamiliar. Is that A thing or is that a dystopiany thing for this fiction sort of thing that you can do there? There's no way that would be legally binding. Um, You know, because it's under physical threat of punishment. So Yeah, I mean, I don't know South korean law like that But I I really don't think it would be It would hold up in a court, but that's not really the point You know, I I yeah, I guess when it mints it because yeah, that's duress Just a bit, um So yeah, he's he's obviously he goes back to the cashier and he's like can I um, I have that money back And then we we cut to him using one of them, uh, grabby machines to try and get a gift for his daughter Which I quite like and I'll try and bring up And you're all welcome to do this as best you can Uh criticisms or praise just where you remember it, but I was um gambling. Uh, he's gambling again. Yes. Yeah Gambling again Even with well, and it's it's a children's sort of game innocence, which is going to be nice and it's going to dovetail Right in magic Andy sucks at it. So that's thematic too Yeah Uh Yeah, because I've seen there was complaints about this from different sources There's no point in trying to say who or what or anything just that um What a dumbass he could have bought a gift instead of trying to use one of these machines It's like he's clearly addicted to gambling like it's something he fucking loves doing And the idea if anyone didn't know the idea with gambling is that you can pay Less to get the same or more than what you bought It's like you bet and then sometimes you end up with more and what do they say? Money one is sweet to the money earned. That's what they say Yeah, see yeah, because he expected he was going to get something real quick Uh with less money and then like his gambling addiction catch up with him And he spends a whole bunch because he's just can't control himself. So And also he only has you know eight and a half dollars It's not like he could get something incredibly nice for her But because he wants to be big spender man He wants to get her something really nice. So he thinks oh if I You know bet I could get something nicer than I could actually afford. Yeah It's around that fits with this character. We're into about 10 minutes We've gotten a whole explanation of all of his flaws and now we're getting like another detail or another I guess layer if you will that he's very much invested in impressing and looking after his daughter You're like, oh, okay Sands in chat says I heard squid games as a critique of claw machines. It is The claw machine represents capitalism The claw so, uh They have like a nice little back and forth about the relationship they have and How she's freer with him to be able to do whatever she wants or at least he's enabling that like fast food and stuff and um I thought so this is an exchange that I I've seen lots people interpret and I'm not going to say wrong But like I saw someone say that he thought he had bought her a legitimate gun and was handing it to her Because he was like, well, it's a gun and that and I saw someone say like he talks about how women are in the war now So he's okay with his daughter just handling a guy. I was like, I don't think he thinks the gun was in the fucking Grabby machine Like this yeah, he was trying to take credit Yeah, he's trying to make he's making an excuse. Yeah, I'm He assumes if you watch the scene it's just A gun a fake gun, right a toy gun, but then it is also a lighter and he's like, oh It's a lighter too. There you go. Like you didn't think you you didn't think it was an actual gun And yeah, when he says gun laws are like in south korea Is in the little grabbing machines Um But yeah, I just I just like his attempt to be like, yeah, we are women They're in the army too. So little girls are like little toy guns as much as boys do. Woo. We did it Um, she even has pink wrapping And yeah, um, and he says next year He's gonna get her a great little gift and then she's just like next year And if you're watching it, I guess Straightforwardly you could imagine she's just sort of expressing a bit of disappointment and be like, oh, it'll be a whole year until I get But but in actuality, there's a bit of just subtext there It's gonna come clear a little later uh, yeah so yeah, that scene sort of Um comes to an end with him just struggling to make all this work And so now it becomes a little bit more complex like you could have condemned him just for being mr. Gambler's mean to his wife, uh, sorry mom But uh, he really is seemingly trying to make things work with his daughter and uh, he's got a pretty bad relationship with his ex as well Who's just like levy take her and he's like let me take her to the stairs at least. She's like, no Because uh, it'll form a bad habit or something like that. Yeah, and the um, he's 10 minutes late as well Which is unacceptable. It's like, oh man. Yeah Somebody made a good point in chat. He's weak. Not evil. That's why I think this character works Yeah, well, he's just he's all around human being really. Um, yeah a bit of a loser, but you know, there's not something there and then But you know Yeah, but he but he clearly really does love his kid. It's not like his kid a noise or anything like that He's just his his habits are just such a problem. Mm-hmm um And then we got uh, he misses his train He sits at the station waiting for the next one presumably everything's going to shit And we get the best cameo in the whole in the whole show because Yeah, business man dad. You may remember not long ago. We did a little e-fap on train to busan The main character in that plays a small role in this show, but it was really nice to see him I remember when I was first watching this show. I was just like, hey, I remember but you He's okay. Ask her all Train to busan was 2016 Okay So it's a good chance that he probably got this role. Thanks to that I would I would imagine Oh for sure. Yeah, and he looks kind of interesting just like he does in train to busan Exactly like it. Yeah I like what they did with the gun It was like I think they they used the gun as a bit of a red herring to make it seem like oh He's gonna rob a bank now. I'm sitting here thinking like here we go. He's gonna rob a fucking bank But he uses it as a quick joke and it's gone. So Yeah, yeah, he's just having a little meme Does make me wonder if uh, if he had kept up the charade, maybe he could have gotten himself all the money in that brief case I don't know. Oh, maybe that would be indicative of character that he does not have Yeah, um So, yeah, this this friendly businessman. It's like, hey, as long as zombies don't invade. I've got a wonderful job of Offering people a chance to play Uh Doxy there you go. That's what it's called You both have a little down jot square thing And uh, you have to hit your opponent's square thing and flip it and if you win you get 100,001 Which uh, what did you say that was with somebody? 100,001 Like 60 is 85 dollars. Oh 85 43 There you go. That's that sounds pretty straightforward. Um, uh-huh And our guy is like That sounds pretty great. I feel like I could do it And he's like if you lose you have to pay me that and he's like Okay, because this is just once again a gamble. Yeah Always a gambler As soon as he hears you can go first. He's like, yeah, I'll take I'll take that risk. Why not? Yep You know, what's funny is uh, this, uh, I don't know which I'm pretty sure doxy came first But uh reminds me of pogs back in the 90s all you 90s kids Poggers Yeah Only there wasn't money on the line. It was like the physical pogs Have any of you ever did you ever play tiddlywinks? Yeah Yeah, can we have no sleeves, please? Yeah, what's fun? So, uh The music during this scene it comes up a couple times not enough in my opinion because it's a nice little Fun childish piece of music. It also a side note since we're on the topic of tiddlywinks Did you know that the um because you have the you have the the flipper disc Little thingy and then you have the little ones that you try to get into the the cup Did you know I know the names of them? Do you know the little ones are called winks the ones that you try to flip through the air And the big disc that you use to flick it up. That's called the squidger Why isn't it called the tiddly? Yeah, I was about to say where is it? Is it called the tiddle? That'd be fun. No, it's just called the squidger I see it's it's it's squidge game So the squidger tiddles the winks The squidger it titling is it might be what the act is called where you like flick it up with the down Yeah, it might be it might be that the squidger tiddles the winks That is a sound bite that now exists I'm offended Everyone knows that a good squidger tiddles winks So he grabs he grabs that all is his one Awesome to move aside and train a Busan man. He's just clearly legendary at this and just fucking launches that thing down And it gets right into it and he's like Our character immediately is like man. I don't have the money I'm all too familiar sick of stats for him. Oh, I think he kind of pats at his pockets like oh money, right? So happens I don't have any And he and he says like it's okay. You can pay with your body And he's like confused that he slaps him and just gihan's face That feels so bruised on one side. What have you done to me? Um Yeah, so the angle here now is you know, if you lose you get slapped if you win you get a hundred a hundred grand I guess in the equivalent of one Um, and so he's like determined now and we just get a funnel montage we're getting slapped like 20 times Yes, it's indicative of how he just really doesn't care about his own well-being as long as he can get that fucking money Yeah, and he's willing to be humiliated too. Yeah Slapped around doesn't give a shit. He needs that money There are people walking by who are just like seeing this happen He's just on his own little world. Yeah Eventually he does win and I think he wins more than once because we cut around There's a good amount of times Yeah, he wins. So he wins an amount. He gets a taste of it. He gets a taste of it he do and Training Busan man before getting on the train with his daughter is like My last job and I got to tell you that there are more games Okay, there's a there's a great little moment before that when he when he wins for the first time He wants to slap him because he completely. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, my turn. He's like, oh money, right That is actually uh, I'm glad you revived with that actually because yeah It's indicative of just like you can completely lose focus of the bigger picture He's like desperately in need of money, but he's so annoying that he's been slapped so much. He's like, let me slap you And I like um The the businessman guy. He's just so chill about it. He's like smiling and clapping for him But when he grabs his hand, he's still smiling, but like in a creepy way. He's like your money idiot Thank you Good stuff. Um And yeah, he basically just says like, you know, you want to make more money you want to play some more games Bring this number like There's another thing where like he when he gets the money from the guy He like flips it over to the back as if he's like, is this is this real like did I really just Like did this just happen? Yeah, I'm not getting played. Am I Which is uh, it makes a lot of sense that they would entice people by playing this game first because it's so simple and so Absolutely a little at stake. So it's just like, yeah, this works If if people aren't willing to play this kind of game For money, then maybe they wouldn't you know be a good candidate for Yeah, get them real desperate. They gotta know for sure and uh, I've had a I've had a couple of people tell me that I'm supposed to be hating. Why am I saying so many things are good Because the show is pretty good at this point. I was about to say Believe me, he's gonna be racing between us all to criticize it when we get to certain points This is I I think this is the best episode or that it has the least problems. Uh, okay, I don't agree with that, but Yeah, we'll get there. We'll get there. Uh So yeah, uh, what's interesting as well is he's the officer and he's like, look, I'm desperate but not that desperate and the guy's like, um Mr. Gihan and he's like, wait, what? And then he lists all of his, uh Like what he owes how old he is his history and stuff He's just like the fuck And then I think he hands him the card and says there's very few spaces left like Which makes me think they must cap out at like 500 probably More hundred and fifty six, I guess. Maybe that is the oh, maybe it is. Yeah, it could be that Is that yeah, can you half four five six? I I doubt I'm pretty sure you can Okay I think yeah, we don't know. I think it's safe to say that there are 500 is the max And they were able to get 456 out of it because if you're at the last You know 10th or whatever of space is left. You're like, yeah, there's not much space left So make sure you touch the or it's all bullshit And he's just saying that to be like, oh not much space left limited time off or due to do it to kind of Put pressure on him. Yeah, it could be Yeah Someone in chat it's 456. Didn't you watch it? It's like, didn't you listen to anything we just said? Yeah, we literally just answered your question. So anyway, he's the last I know he's the last number. Yes We're talking about the maximum capacity for what these yes When we assume it to be 500 because 456 isn't a bit of a strange number to just have a capital Yeah, unless there's a reason why it's 456. I don't know and 456 cannot be halved down to two. So there you go Oh, okay Right then So he's really happy with that set of money and we get um on rewatch Like when you first watched this I didn't quite get how important this would be But I probably should have picked it up because this is a fucking tv show, but he's like, oh man, it's great I got a high. I didn't even uh Like I have to do anything crazy like the the woman he's talking to Everybody I watched this show with assumes it's his mum and I'm always like it ain't but I did I assumed the same thing. It's uh, it's song all the Asians look the same. Is that where you're I don't even know if they clearly look different. I think it's a matter of we didn't see his mum for long enough Or her face for long enough that this naturally and we knew she went to work So it's like so this is probably where she works then it's like it's really I think they could have done a better job of making sure we didn't mix them up Uh, because I every what I've watched this with mixes them up, but I was like, no, no, no, it's not it's not Don't worry it legit might be because the The voices and the language that kind of I think that because it is like in Like when we when we watch train debris sign when we watch this just names It's hard for me to remember foreign names in the way that I could remember, you know more western names It's just more difficult for me to Latch on to those as names and remember them and put them to faces It's just more difficult and then you can compare that within the show when you've got um Uh, I think his name is cho sang woo is his full name versus someone like ali You're like, oh, I think everyone's gonna remember. Yeah. Yeah. I remember ali's name. Yeah I'm not also just because ali is like a more Like if you live in an english-speaking country, there's a good chance, you know, depending on how I'm at ali This is ali is like a name that you're aware of. Yeah, you know, yeah English name People just get that Aladdin song stuck in their head too. So Well, all right not pointing any fingers, but Um, what I will say is the scene does make it clear. She's not his mom because he points out Oh, how's song woo doing and she's like Your brother is I'm your mom You're not bye, brother. It looks at the camera. Uh, so Uh, we just get a little bit of information about this song woo guys Like a guy who used to be there were friends when they were kids and he used to uh, Take him to school and because of that He feels a little bit like entitled to he says he's an ungrateful prick and he should at least get him like a A drink when he's next in town because to a to a degree he's responsible for having gone to I think he says scu Which is like a particular university that's really prestigious. Yeah, it's soul national university. Oh snu then Yeah, and and it's it's information that if you're just like treating this very casually You might just forget, but of course, it's gonna be really relevant very important And it was was funny as well as he's like you can keep the change la la la that she's like you fucking underpaid at your prick Um And I see I think that that on its own could be seen as like Oh, it was a bit selfish, but he legit probably thought he gave him more than he was supposed to and um, yeah He then sees a cat and he gives cat some of the food that he's got and you're like add this to What we know about him I think it's safe to assume that when he's doing okay for resources, he'll happily pass him out to other people Yeah, yeah, he likes being generous. Yeah Yeah, he tipped the lady cat. He got so yeah It seems like a chill guy who's just really down in his luck Yeah, and if not for the gambling he probably have Yeah, he's really bad at the thing he loves to do. Yeah Is And like he's very happy to tell oh go ahead. Oh Nope, I lost it keep going Um Yeah, he's like happy to tell his mom that he's like I got money now that she's just immediately What the fuck do you do to your face? He's like this is nothing. He's just shut up Yeah And the trend continues he gives her money back. He's like now that I've got it. I'm giving more back to you And um, I think she first assumes he gambled for it and he says no and then she says did you steal it? And he's like no which tells you everything about their relationship pretty much Um, she's don't even get money. Yeah almost exclusively disappointed and then she has to tell him Yeah, she doesn't even think oh you you got a you did a job. Yeah Like she doesn't even think about that like you my son wouldn't get a job Like a normal son would like all those better sons would That's what she'd say Yeah, and she says she's like trying to get it out of him That it should have been obvious that something bad is happening with his daughter Until she's just over it and says like they're going to america the family And um, it was interesting to see her like one of the primary concerns is the if she grows up in america She might lose the interest and the ability to speak fluently in korean and the your daughter won't even be able to communicate with you properly like It's uh, it's it's quite sad like his his mom is just desperate for him to care enough that his daughter may just Leave the family and that that's like his major aspect that he's going to lose and uh You can tell he's feeling nothing but guilt about it And um, and she's got to know that you know, just his own self-interest trying to get him to Do smart things on that behalf hasn't worked so far So she's like you're going to lose your daughter You care about that right and I would go as far as saying she um almost concedes on giving him more money She lets him get away with a lot of stuff, but this is I think a subject where she's not willing to bud She's like you need to fucking do something about this As she even suggests going to lawyers to prevent them from taking the daughter Um, because yeah, you need to prove you as financial support, which when you've seen everything else has happened in this episode We now know probably where we're going He needs money and he needs it fast not just for uh His own just existence, but now to be able to pay to be able to prove that he's a We're the guardian and to be able to uh push back if they try and take her out of the country sort of thing And an in has been given to him and so he's looking at photos of him and his daughter and then he eventually calls And uh, it's interesting because we talked about this when I think we were first watching it or at least um, I do with some people but You get the hook. It's like watch this show. It's a fucking crazy show of people killing each other for Money in a big game or whatever like the first half an hour is just you just learn about this guy. It's like It's just classic storytelling. It's like we don't really want to go into that whole thing until we have some we know I guess Yeah, and I like how his backstory wasn't like painfully told to him in a way that like doesn't make sense But it was given to him just to prove that they know all about him And like there you go. That's his backstory and why he's in the slump that he's in right now told to him by the doxie guy And uh, it was done better than just reciting somebody's past Not even to prove anything but just because the audience is watching Everyone's in chat. You're all jumping ahead to future episodes being critical and stuff. You gotta wait. Yeah Wait, wait, wait We're half We're sticking through this long ass e-fap. Yeah, we get to gotta get all the preamble done. Don't be jumping there Right So he gets in to this mysterious car and then he gets hit with gas Because I think he comes in he's like wow, everyone must be tired and then gas Oh man, you're all tired Oh Um Yeah, it's contagious. No, I'm sleepy too. It's like someone yawns. Now everyone's gotta do it It was I just thought it was nice seal little guy with a gas mask. It's good stuff My five to show not enough shows do this. All right. Yeah, it's good representation. Yeah Uh It's very it's very mysterious. We see these these vans all collecting on uh, oh no, actually we don't see that until later I think it just cuts to him waking up actually Yep, it does. Yeah And uh, yeah, it's a very spooky environment. Everybody's in similar clothing. Everyone's in uh, just beds And they're all slowly waking up at exactly the same time in this room. It's like a bunch of sardines and you're like, what the fuck is happening? um And that she's going on I think it's important they do it that way because that's his experience, right? He went from that car just to here And it's like the fuck And it's true. Yeah, and then they give us a view of uh the control room and um It's I don't know how I missed it because I was watching it with metal and rags, but uh And seriously, this is one of the battles made the um the control sticks for everything In the control room and all the pads and stuff. It's all uh arcadey style Yeah, it looks all like arcades. So the only way I could explain this is that I was uh Looking at the screens every time they cut to scenes like that Wasn't looking at the the buttons and paddles. It's a neat design, you know, and it fits the theme Though based on some things they do later at those stations like to leading camera footage It makes you wonder why you just press one arcade button and it does that but Well, I was just gonna say you could just skip to the criticism of doesn't seem very fucking Useful to have it limited to buttons and practical Yeah, I was just I was writing that example specifically because they do complex things with those machines Well, it's kind of like in the original series for star trek When you see all of the the but single buttons and knobs and slider levers for this intergalactic spaceship And you're like, I don't know Yeah, I think kind of that's so far because I played the uh star trek VR game with some friendos And there there's the I don't know if it's a dlc or if it's just free content, but you can play in the original uh On the original station With all those buttons and then you sit in front of these buttons is like What which one are real like which ones are the ones that need to press to do things because they all look the same just different colors It's like I don't understand So if this is like just keeps being confusing Maybe the people who work here the maybe they're all really dumb And so they have to make the the all the buttons like very very simple with colors and simple shapes If you want if you want to do this You gotta press this button um Interestingly as well we get the angle that we had of him when he was waking up in their security screens and I don't know where their cameras are But like there's a lot of very small cameras apparently That are located everywhere Which makes sense. Yeah, they're like underneath they're underneath bunks and stuff when you look at the screens They're all over the place. Maybe they're all wireless. I guess they'd have to be but yeah a lot of Bizarre camera placements that are I think it's for us to believe they can turn this into a tv show like they can You know in the universe. I'm they're watching everything that they're doing. Yeah, which is gonna be something we'll keep in mind for Yeah, they're really watching them closely So, uh, yeah, we just don't miss a thing Seeing all this crazy shit from his pov and he any walks past this old dude who's like counting everybody And he's like, hey idiot, there's a fucking number up there of all of us and the old guy's like, I know I'm just counting. It's good for your brain Good for the brain and then he forgets and he's like fuck Yeah, and he says like Gotta avoid them Alzheimer's by counting apparently helps which makes sense I don't know a huge amount about uh Alzheimer's But I know a couple of things about what's helpful and I'm pretty sure counting is probably one of them Get that brain Yeah, just just give you a brain active basically And um, you notice as well that he is number one player one and uh, yehan is Number one five six In a sense is the last player but only by the set of numbers I guess um And yeah, so just uh, everyone's very confused I I think you'd be pretty scared having woken up here after even with all the context you have with the number and the guy You'd be like the fuck that's happened to me um and I think Oh, yeah, there's a little back and forth I'm gonna try and remember these exchanges But um, he's like shouldn't you be at home with your grandkids like cooking your food and stuff And then uh, or your your daughter-in-law or something like that And then he's like do your parents have your daughter-in-law cook for them? This is super awkward because he's like, oh, yeah, my mom works her ass off to look after me while my Her daughter-in-law is fucking moving to a different country. It's just like, yeah, let's not talk about that. Anyway Yeah, he definitely got of this. It's like, you know Different different goals in life stuff like that. Yeah, and we get distracted because Now his name is dioksu. I believe but we're probably gonna call him thug Is I was leaning towards gangster, but thug is pretty good. I think she calls him a thug at one point Yeah, he's he's thuggish. He is quite thuggish. He's a thug archetype He's the kind of character you would absolutely include in this sort of thing. You want someone who's gonna be a brute Yeah, I like him a lot Well, uh, I don't want to say much. I like all characters We'll go into that. That's fine. Uh, we got He's uh, he's beaten up a little lady and he's like really is a small world You and I because like I I I trade you in the force and you portrayed Yeah, and uh Says I took care of you I taught you when you had nowhere else to go and this is what I get and then she says, um You took more from me than whatever I could possibly owe something to think about and uh Yeah, he's gonna go uh Try and beat the fuck up But um, I kind of like this when I was first watching because I was thinking to myself This is a classic environment for the hero to be like no, don't you beat this poor lady? Yeah, but it is it doesn't run that way because what we know about yeah He pushes Ducks thug out of the way to be like, hey, you're the one to stole my money He realizes I think because of the scar on her neck Which is a great little indicator for him, but simultaneously a bit of history you can infer from whatever life she's probably led um Yeah, it's just what he just pushes him over and he's like you fucking stole my money give him back and then Thug guy who's clearly dangerous as hell. He's like, who the hell are you? Um Yeah, he's just immediately like Anyway, and then I think he says like a you two running a scab together and I think uh gihad is just like pat a gang And he's like this guy is evil. He's beating people up Um help Um And yeah, it gets broken up because the squid game team roll out which is um In terms of imagery is getting around the internet. They're uh, oh it sure is a group of people who uh Dressing is that It was trying to I guess you call that pink, right? Um Someone say maroon. Why not salmon? I don't know Call me a maroon say maroon. That's not maroon Um, well, you never know you never know what a maroon colors. I do know Um Yeah, and so you got a bunch of circles standing behind a square And it's like you already get a sense of maybe a hierarchy. Um, um, goodness I think it's circles of foot soldiers triangles, uh, like the weapons guys and squares of managers um The more sides you have leaders, yeah So They explain they they chill everyone out. They're like, yes I know it's pretty weird you woke up here, but don't worry. You'll get all your possessions back This is the best way to do it without letting you know where we are What's happening beyond what you should know and that um Time to sign some shit so that we can begin game one And uh, don't don't panic and I think um interesting is song woo who's immediately like you tricked us We were kidnapped this is bullshit. You can make as many excuses as you want Um, make sure nobody knows you broke the law here, but if you're gonna make up for that Then we're gonna need something more and instead of pleasing him. They just tell him Motherfucker you got like millions of debt Yeah And um just dabbing on them. It's like no stop it. Yeah Just imagine that imagery one of the one of the pink soldiers just uh get poor at dab That is funny because everyone's watching it It's like oh that it starts skipping to other people and basically the unifying factor for all these people is that they They need money. Everyone here needs some money and um when they show song woo briefly uh it shows Jihan being like wait a minute and yeah if you just remembered All the words from that scene where he was buying some fish Song woo was the son of that lady The one who was very successful and Gone to universities. It's like hmm What are you doing? Interesting Yeah, and they say you called you volunteered to participate in this game of your own free will and this is it You'll get one chance to choose or one last chance to choose whether or not you want to participate um And he says you'll go back to living your old and depressing lives getting chased by creditors or seize this last opportunity we're offering Pretty tempting Oh, yeah Especially because nobody's mentioned anything about death yet Yeah, that's that's a detail we don't mention at the beginning You're gonna play some games and you have the chance to win money and I was like, yeah, that's great I don't know why they Gassed me I'd got me here at undress me completely It's like very serious, but man, this is gonna be great Yeah, they think everyone is they deliberately vague with the language and everybody's just distracted by the Prize being like you can get a shit ton of money here. Okay everyone. They're like, ooh The big ol piggy bank up on the ceiling Beautiful. Yeah, I think it's it's safe that people wouldn't assume that like oh, I'm gonna be killed if I lose Yeah, especially with yeah, they even show clips on the screen But the game they played with the train to Busan man It's just like that's probably the similar thing we're doing. I think there's gonna be a big deal for why everyone assumes this will be safe Oh, yeah um And then again, you read the uh, look there's three clauses and uh, whatever I think says like if you refuse to play You will be eliminated, which is like eliminated I mean with that It's yeah, it's deceptive because they frame it like there's only three clauses No fine print and so that means you can trust us because it's simple and we're not burying any clauses way down in there You know, but big it is so vague and non-specific that it's actually more deceptive than a longer Yeah contract that defines terms would be well the thing is I think that's you have to wonder What if a player says hey by eliminating you don't mean killed, right? What do they do then? It's a it's a good thing that no one there is a lawyer who would go hey, you haven't Had any of these terms. I'm not saying Um and clause the the interesting clause is that if uh, majority players vote to end the games the games will end um Yeah, they all split into a big line And this is the thing because this is only episode one so you got to really get this stuff done Uh, oh and we've seen the front man as well who has a mask that uh, It's probably gonna get around to maybe for halloween. Who knows Reminds me of andros some other people might find other other Yeah This is a strange thing that happens when we see the front man. Did he get into the elevator yet? Not yet. No Yeah, we just see like this sort of pastel mcs or staircase. I don't understand I don't get the point of it, but I yeah, I isn't confused the the people so that they won't know They'll be disoriented before when traveling from let's say storage to games. They'll If they try to run it it's kind of like a labyrinth so they don't stand a good chance of finding an exit Yeah, but in terms of the design hallway. Yeah That's true. I think it's more aesthetic And I just think it's neat So here's the thing is it aesthetic for any purpose in the game or just the audience? Seems aesthetic because that's been the whole theme of this entire facility Is it's all very colorful and very candy coated very game like so I imagine it's this aesthetic thing Because by the time they're in that hallway, they've already they're already in Mm-hmm. So they've agreed to the game. They're taking to the game can't back out now I I guess it's just the the organization the you know the people who designed this place are having some fun Honestly, I don't think it's more complicated than that. Yeah, I don't think it's a way too practical purpose It doesn't cause any problems for me. Yeah, we know. Yeah, it's not a it's not a problem It's just one of those like why yeah, I understand because it's a point of praise for everyone who sees this And you do wonder like is it just the fact that it's those colors or is there any like practical reason why you think it's really Interesting and substantive or is it just it just looks cool just an it's a weird room So I was waiting for something to happen in these Yeah, me too. I feel like it was a missed opportunity in that sense, but then we only get like later on like there is Yeah, you could argue there is something that happens here that That's the only reason why I mentioned a potential reason other than that. Yeah, I got nothing Yeah, oh enough when you get into like Side hallways that door with doors that lead to nowhere. Yeah Who is no one's meant to Open this if things go according to plan. So I don't yeah, I just don't it's weird Not to mention there are vip's watching these games. So I bet I imagine the look is to entertain them I it's weird, but they're like adults Yeah, they're like I feel like they themselves would be asking why have you colored it this way and also I don't think they see these rooms at all I don't think they see these rooms at all because they They might do There's cameras there. Yeah, because yeah, but they they receive a tv show more than likely in the same way that this tv show runs Oh, oh, yeah, they mentioned that they they watched the thing, right? Yeah, so, you know, they got the game show colors going on But many of the environments in which they play the games could just be blank white rooms But they decided to make them colorful and fun as part of the show. So good Child-friendly aesthetic, but I guess I can't say for sure what I would What I would put down is why they did this specifically Not the makers that gotta be for the entertainment of the viewers Yeah, it's it's important to note that there's a difference between this and like fancy opulence This doesn't fall in that category Because this is very very mechanical in nature Uh, especially when you think about what it must have, you know to construct all of this This isn't dressing something up. This is really Just a really weird creepy strange Staircase room with a lot of extra stuff that no one would ever see but it's still done up to the nines I don't know. Someone just said it's intentionally disorienting. Um I don't think that would disorient me. I would just it'd be confusing because that's not generally how architecture is done But I don't know about disorienting only if anyone tried to like run away and escape in this part, you know They get lost easily I guess but uh, are we lucky said there's doors that go nowhere and it's Something like that, but I feel like it's disorienting enough just not even knowing what game you're about to play So they probably don't even need to do that. Some people are arguing is to make the players calm Prior to the thing, but that's only gonna work the first time Yeah, this this room does not make you calm. This is not a calm room Definitely a curious sort of situation. I would definitely if we were all going into this place. I'd be like, why I would be like, I hope I don't fall off of these stairs to my deck Yeah, could you put on some god rails on these like Jesus? Yeah, is this is this a star wars staircase? There's a bouncy castle floor at the bottom Um, so yeah, yeah, they'll they'll get their pictures taken and then there's actually a point I was like, oh, I wonder if this is already the first game Like if they don't smile they just get just instantly killed I'm wondering if they go that route so they're like, oh no, they're actually just taking pictures I love um jihann's smile. So it's awesome He's so ready to have some fun and maybe win some money. She doesn't know And yeah, you uh get all the faces up on the dare I say floor board of the floor So the front man can just view his players, I guess. I don't know I don't know how efficient that is as a system, but it looks neat It isn't at all It's it's one of those the point the parts that aren't seen by the people But yeah, you wonder who it's for, you know, um It very strange. I think it's it's for the audience. I think is what it is It's it's for the sake of an audience that doesn't exist in that world Well, like I there's probably there's a camera that's looking over the entire floor, right? Maybe there's like once again, it's for the viewers watching. They'll just show it over the Floor But I don't know but then again, you would have to argue like why is it a Physical thing on the floor when you can just overlay it on one of those arcade TVs, right? I don't know what purpose it serves for something that would have been hard to set up, you know So so the security system when he gets into the elevator scans his mask Um, can we talk about how that's not necessarily the best security system to have? Yeah Well, it's kind of weird because like in a later episode that sort of comes into play And it's like they still are able to tell whether or not it's a yeah, we'll have to We'll have to get there. Yeah, it's a reverse Star Wars face scanner. It's kind of we have to have a mask. You don't have to have a face um yeah, uh I guess they assume like nobody but the front man will have that mask So it's say it was like that sounds strange as a system, but I guess the idea here is that nobody ever sees each other's faces No, yeah, but they're I mean it leaves you open to sabotage which happens Anyway, yeah It's one of those you think that of You would want to know exactly who all the people are who are working there. Yeah, you know Like you don't want them all to be anonymous You don't want them all to be hidden at a glance There's no way they hire these people without knowing everything about them But at the same time they're not allowed to let each other know about each other. Is that the idea? I guess the idea is compartmentalization sort of you're on your own But maybe Maybe for security Maybe you scan the mask and you have to have a keycode or a POSWID or something Yeah, that would be Or if the employees also have things in their necks like we'll find out the uh, can like the competitors do We'll just like fingerprints. They probably wouldn't want to just fingerprints They probably wouldn't want to mark them If the clause is to let them go if the majority of degrees they probably don't want to mark them So, yeah So they enter the mark them they enter the field is a Very nice and quaint just like a little big area. There's a weird thing in the distance. Don't know what that is And uh, immediately jihanna's like song woo my bro. What's going on? You can't be in debt He's like awkwardly looking away the whole time like Anyway, I think he says we'll talk by later and he's like, huh, okay But yeah, um, I think at this point in the story you might be tricked into thinking this is pretty chill And you don't know what's gonna happen. Um, but I think you should be floating in the back of your mind Because this is the whole fucking reason you started watching the show probably Well, everybody who's ever talked about it immediately bring up that it's gory. So it's like, oops. Well, that's the uh Well, we I didn't know anything about it when I started watching it Yeah, so but you also thought they'd get killed if they didn't smile. Absolutely. Yeah Yeah You're all gonna die Um, you're gonna get marveled. Oh, no, that's worse than dying. That is worse So, uh, the game is explained. It's good old red light green light. Well, green Yeah, I think most people knew this one. That's probably why I know that one I knew more. I know that more than squid game Yeah It's just yeah, this little robo girl and she's gonna look and if you run when she's looking at you Boom, you're out of the game. You are eliminated Whatever that might mean and it's like, hmm And everyone's pretty meh about this you can tell like everyone's just like, okay. I guess I understand And now there's two guys at the front who are like, hey bet you a million I make it their fist He's like, uh game on bud And um, yeah, that's what the dub sounds like, right? Fucking Make me cringe the dub is don't watch the dub, please You here understand am I right? I also do me favor everyone. Don't do that Don't do that. It'll it's it also has different dialogue too. So I notice the subtitles don't match the um English Uh, sometimes yeah perfectly either. Yeah, there's yeah, there's a bit of difference So you get the point but there's definitely some difference. I think there'll be lots for us to say on the English in this show I think we will So, uh, yeah, it seems pretty normal and just like all right. Let's just get going. She says, uh green light and I think um At this point you just like ever everybody's just like this is a game where I'm gonna try and do well, but if you don't whatever it's fine And uh guy gets really far ahead, but oh he's just he loses balance a little bit So he's eliminated the guy behind him's like ha ha I win and then um, I think they do it pretty nicely there's a gunshot, but it's quick enough and Confusing enough that everyone's just like wait what and he just falls over And everyone's just wondering what the fuck just happened Yeah, don't quite believe anything yet Good thing. There was no exit wound Well, yeah, there's no blood splatter. So that helps um Until he coughs up blood for almost every other one. Yeah, obviously You know it's still nice. It's done for that little bit of subtlety because we're just getting Slowly pushed in and yeah, and I like that um He sees the bloods moving slightly and then looks up and moves more and more until he realizes like I'm done now. I've got to run gotta run and then his shot just splatters blood all over a lady and she's just like Oh my god and uh Yeah, everyone I say everyone a lot of people start running um I think we see a good third of the crowd all move back while a lot of people are still trying to stay still and it's um Complex scenario. I think everyone's gonna react differently. You understand very quickly that moving kills you. You'll stop moving um Yeah, I think Yeah, I I think it's certainly interesting the idea that we you just you just see someone get killed by a sniper And they were killed by running And yeah, and but I got I think your mind just goes to oh shit Like you there's a there's an aspect of if there is if you're out in the open and someone gets killed by a sniper A lot of people won't think oh, I have to stand perfectly still in order to survive Their their first instinct is to I need to run away. I need to get away from this And of course the panic would like in the yeah the panic cascade Like the herd mentality to everyone else is running And people getting bowled over and everything like that. Yeah Um, you get a bit of a shot here. I'm gonna try and get it fixed I've seen people mentioning in chat already and I've seen it brought up before Um, we lose. I think half of the people from this game about half of the people in the game. Yeah, yeah Um, but like are you saying the numbers don't line up on screen? Hey, I'm not saying it But it's quite possible that first shot. Um, that's after round one and it already seems like we're close If not at half already I don't know that the numbers fully line up Yeah, I don't think they do There's three corpse piles at the exits as well. It's like damn, bro. That's a lot of people who are dead already Yeah Yeah, I think yeah, you think like see it 50 people alive. Exactly. Yeah, it doesn't seem like it lines up Because 201 make it through this and 255 die and remember there's still quite a few Like a ton that get killed in this game still so It's uh, um, maybe there was enough maybe there was a b team room. Yeah, maybe Yeah, maybe that you know that you know that disorienting staircase They all ended up in different places still played different games It was just a big chunk of people Uh, but yeah, shit tons die blood everywhere and it's definitely gonna be if you didn't Give anybody a preamble on this show at all and they had no idea what it's in for I imagine that part's probably particularly fucking shocking Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah Um, and then you just get this really cool moment of everyone's still frozen Because they don't know what to do about this, but the old dude is just like, let's go Let's do it you first and he's got a big old smile remember that for later. Yeah Yeah, remember that because it is odd Uh, like why is he so engaged and happy what everyone else is fucking terrified? That's strange You just have to chalk it up to I guess he's got brain-tism Yeah, yeah He really does get lost in his own world Or maybe he just he understood that this was a potential more so than anyone else did Maybe he's a vampire. I think I mentioned before I watched it I was uh, or at least I thought it one of the two It's like, uh, I wonder if he was in that game before maybe he's like a veteran of squid game or something That's sort of what I thought too because of his number, you know, that's all like Oh, he's he's a carryover from the last game, right? So now he's number one Yeah, it's like this old guy is the first one they got Yeah So yeah that so that was my take an interesting point too. Um, we were just talking about the difference between the uh watching it dubbed and subbed Um, the dubbed version plays Typical red light green light, but when you're watching it subbed she sings a song And I find it kind of interesting how it's all like, oh, you know how the song works How are so many people still fucking this up? I didn't know that yeah Yeah, it's and also nobody because we all think if I was there, what would I do? Nobody crawls No one goes on all fours and scurries forward and then just like it's very easy to stay still after that That's fair. I think it's gonna be like a clock. I would yeah, I would want I would worry about rolling the I can't do at any time That's not fair rags. You have four legs and we don't yeah Yeah, maybe that's my that's true. That's might be my mind going, you know to I think but I think I agree I think it could have been cool to see a couple people trying crawling in the crowd Yeah, and he's like way behind and their time runs out and they get shot Yeah, yeah, you could show that the by crawling they couldn't quite make it Maybe yeah, you have to crawl fast, but I still think I guess it's the risk Do you want to go slower than running but have it basically guarantee that you'll be still when it's over so Yeah, up to you. It would nice to be see these explorations of strategies Kind of play out. What would this person do? Especially a bunch of because basically everyone in this show is a fucking red shirt It would be nice to see that sort of like oh, okay you green jacket Oh, wait white shirt White shirt green jacket, but they're red shirts. They're all red shirts regardless of what they're wearing I know it's just joking. It's okay They're also green pants white shoes yellow well Wait was I I thought you're gonna make a different point though about the red shit thing No, no, no, I was just saying they're all red shirts. Mm-hmm. Um There's a part that I like about this where the old man is the only one that's moving and there's this shot Where he stops and he looks kind of focused. This is gill. That's just next to him She's just looking around like the fuck He's just carrying on like, okay Yeah Yeah, the game continues Everyone starts moving forward and what's cool by the way is if you've seen the whole show Watching episode one again, you could see lots of characters that'll eventually be much more important And it's just neat because you're like, oh, there they are just trucking along in game alive ones. Yeah Um, and yeah, gihan is freaking the fuck out because he got pushed to the ground And he's just shivering and then song woo is like bro. You can't stay there We got a time limit the doll senses how you move. Here's a tip trying to stay behind someone else And um, you'll have like almost like a bonus life at that point. Yeah uh and Yeah, just just uh Because I've seen people be critical of that tip. Um I saw I think it could have been map paths video But he was like the reason why that's a bad tip is the person in front of you might stop at any moment And thus it would fuck you up I'm just like it doesn't take a lot to be able to fucking be cognizant of your the person in front of his movement Well, especially considering that that's the whole point of the game and he's right in front of you I just I think it's a good tip because he's right It's uh, you freeze when you're supposed to freeze But if you fail that you've still got someone in front of you that might save your life Just by freezing at the right time. It's like, yeah, it's a good tip And he's correctly pointing out that the motion sensor has one perspective. It's not on all four sides Yeah, it's the doll. Yeah, and I think it's a it's good ship because it's like this song woo guy with the glasses He seems to be a smart boy Uh, yep, and he's helpful with gihan as well. We also have another interaction of um Thug guy who was beating up the girl. She's right behind him And she grabs his hair and he's like, please please please don't move me And um, yeah, she doesn't she could have killed him, but she doesn't uh He said pushes him down and uh, yeah gihan was using that tip, but the guy in front of him gets killed And uh now he's kind of played by the rules And then uh, someone I think who was spoke to him briefly at the beginning grabs his leg and it's just like, please help me It's just like, oh man he's been shot and uh Yeah, once you get green light again He pulls off and they just it's just nicely done with the camera's framed so that You can the pans sort of and you can just see him in the background struggling and you just get shot down. It's just like, uh Down he goes They pick off the jazz music Yeah, yeah time to get weird Which um, I think this this can be jarring because you're like wait, is that seat over it's like no no no It's just the the guy who's chilling out watching. He's putting some jazz on while he's Yeah Weird little plastic bin because you know, why not get weird about it, right? I wanted to imagine he built that himself. Yeah Um, he's just admiring the show and then we just watch as all of them Very stressfully make it through this game, which by the way just everyone I watched this with the first time I'm good at myself. It is a stressful fucking game to watch right out. Yes. Yes It's uh, it's it's it was it was a very good choice for the first one to have in the show. Yeah Definitely establishes what's happening. You don't have to be guessing them like your The other games will probably be like this. This is a life or death scenario serious business I think one of the big things that works in favor of this is the first one is that it is a game That doesn't involve much into play with other players. So for the first game where people don't fully appreciate the You know, like the full scope of the situation Um, I think that like it gets the most out of That one whereas like the later ones start to rely more on how they interact with other players And it's true because Many of the contestants are still under the impression that Like, oh if I if I just can survive this game, I'll just survive all the other games And then I'll we'll we'll yeah, like I I think that's one of the uh, because I said at the beginning like that I think this show and the whole game itself is meaningfully different from like battle royale because it is not explicitly clear For a long time Whether or not there's meant to be only one winner or like the nature of how people can work together or you know How how long it's gonna last for how many people will be left at the end? There's like enough vagueness there to work with Though I do think there's a certain point at which people still think, you know Like uh more than one person are gonna come out of here alive and it does seem Um, like they're being incredibly naive, but we'll get there. I I don't know if it's naive I don't think it's naive. It's possible. It might yeah, I think it's No, no, no, I actually know I'm pushed back on this one more like I think it is us being familiar with stuff like battle royale That makes us believe that there must be one winner Whereas in this world, like I don't know Really battle royale has to have a team 18 wins I'll say I considered it my mistake when I was watching the show that I assumed it would be one winner But then on rewatching it. I noticed the dialogue and I was like no that there is the potential for more than one winner With everything that they they claim And also remember we got shown that squid game can actually be played as a team game Yeah Yeah, so presumably the prize money would be split, but well, you know, we we'll get to all of this but um, I I guess As we're we're watching them running for the line and everybody's across except gihon. He's he's he's gotta go But then he trips and giga chad chungish chad Incarnate like pure chad energy ali grabs him by the collar and Saves his life. I just wanted to know most people we have any recognition of up to this point past the line Including old man and his fucking face when he crosses it. He's like Absolute time of his life Yeah While everyone else is like just looks like they're on death's door Stress the fuck out. It's just interesting juxtaposition because it makes you wonder Um, but yeah, and it seems as though the only people that we have left at all that we recognize is the protagonist And he slips as fringy mentioned, but we get lucky In that someone decides to grab him And it's it's so you don't need anyone to tell you he's fucking risking himself hardcore by doing that Yeah Um, I need to size to to help him out And this is quite wonderfully done as well because uh for a moment when watching it And I think I can't remember metal if you would you were talking about this as well, but uh When he slips I think as a viewer you're like Oh, shit. Is my is this going to be the is it going to be that they kill the protagonist at episode one Not really Right like making it the protag after He was my thought and I wouldn't even be that like I think that would have worked It would have been so like we see this guy's whole life and then he just gets killed here right at the finish line because he fucked up Um, no, the project was now his friend, right? So it's like Yeah, we could easily switch to another another character something with it And it's just instant character development already immediately. We know we basically know who Ali is already Yeah, because I think the most people wouldn't have done what he did No, I I think it's a clear indication. It's like this guy right here This this man like he is Ali is uh Ali is really Really, yeah big risk takes a big risk to himself a big risk and also already highlights Something that I guess we'll get referenced later. He's he's a strong guy. He's strong. Yeah He's strong And uh, it's kind of interesting too. It's like you see him save uh gihan He also have to wonder it's like how far back was ali and how many other people did he save along the way That we just didn't get to see because we were Maybe uh Maybe it's it's a specific circumstance and you have to be within range. I'd imagine um Yeah, this is right into the kind of game where it's probably really difficult to actively help other people Yeah, um someone in chat saying ali is dumb ali is not dumb You know why they say we'll get to it. Well, we'll get yeah Whatever. Yeah, we'll get to it unless they talk about this specific instance and this this I could easily see a friend of mine doing this and I might tell them like you fucking could have killed yourself by doing that You know that, right? Yeah, but I wouldn't describe that as dumb Well, that's the thing if they acknowledge that I'd be like so what you did wasn't dumb. It was incredibly altruistic Exactly altruistic possibly to a fault. Yeah And laced if your goal is to live if your goal is to like live through this It's a dick move by the By whoever shot the last guy that didn't make it there was like a little pause of like two seconds like They pass over it's very satisfying But then we immediately cut to just all of these people who haven't yet crossed the line And they're like just like us. They're like does are we do they get shot there? And there's just like poom poom poom poom. They all just fall. Yeah, except for one dude Who's that's it for like two seconds? He's like, oh, yeah Oh Hell yeah, did I win What I gotta wonder is like if it hits zero, they probably know what's gonna happen It's like, why didn't they just make a break for the finish line before they get shot, right? Again, I think it would have been cool to show Two few people getting desperate I can also see the logic of being like I will do the rules whether or not the time runs out Maybe they won't kill me. Maybe it'll just be that I've I've failed this round instead of having to kill me But yeah, they get killed Yeah, because it's already an interesting thing where it's like They've got one camera just looking from the girl, right? But they've got rifles all over the place. So it's like, why don't they have cameras all over the place? They're probably trying to You know encourage a little bit of ingenuity Or like, you know, just a little bit of skirting of the rules So I imagine somebody might catch up on that and try to at least make a break for the finish line Even after the time ran out. So yeah, definitely does make you wonder So like once she turns her head, can I go and like how does, you know Well, um, something I guess I find a little bit interesting is possibly a flaw or it's just how the system works A lot of people are moving As a result of other people in that opening round and the guns can't get to everyone And so I wonder if it's just like because, you know Gihan moves quite a bit when someone falls on him, but does the system distinguish between being pushed and falling? No, I think there's it can only shoot so many people at a time. I think it's that. Yeah There's just a matter of it has to get around to everybody The system does seem to be overwhelmed by the amount of people moving. So I guess I guess that means it doesn't remember that he moved earlier Or maybe it doesn't judge that is I don't know And also that guy fell in front of him. Um Yeah, you could argue there's a bit of wiggle room there. I just wondered if it was um She logs everything in a little computer brain and then the guns just have to get to everyone eventually or if it's just It's real time and you can't escape if you're lucky enough I mean, it makes you wonder the I guess the only point of having the girl there instead of the Workers is so they don't see all these men with guns in this box. They're stuck in Yeah, yeah, um, I think the a lot of people just because the guns are really far away So it's enough that they don't even realize they're there Yeah, they're hidden. Uh, the they don't see the guns They're still playing under the idea that you don't know that if you are eliminated that means that you get killed And this hyper advanced computer Doll that is tracking movement and highlighting you and numbering you and sending it to some database When this could be just oh, yeah, all the guys with guns. They're just looking for people who move after You know the time is up This is kind of an interest. Um, I don't know if I want to Well, okay, so this is a bit of an interesting Take got a super chat here. It says asking. Why are you dumbo's watching korean stuff? It doesn't seem in your realm Not that you're tied to any type of media. It just seems weird Um, we the storytelling's in our realm. That's the answer. Yeah. Yeah, it's like that's just what it is It doesn't care. Yeah, we don't care where it's from. It just needs to be a good story worth talking about and here is Well, I don't know. I well because we've been this before fringy won't watch anything from chile I won't watch anything from paraguay Uh, you know, we all have our limits. I'm very anti-marshal content. I feel like we just bought it Unless unless it's doom then we're pro-marshal. Oh, yeah, that's the exception because that's like a crossover Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh, but generally we don't really care what it's from and we get so we've had almost everything We have is western stuff and so much of it has been shit And let's be frank squid game is in vogue right now. Everyone's talking about it. Everyone's discussing it So there's an aspect of you know, we want to keep you know track on current things Yeah, spooky ween comes up expect those costumes I think a lot of people will be curious how how squid game relates to how we often look at stories And it's like well, you're gonna find out. Yeah, you came to the right place We're already up to nearly two hours. We're done episode one We're doing great just now ending episode one. Yep. Um, I'm gonna get a drink y'all carry ahead for fucking time's sakes Yes, I feel like this should get faster as we go. Who knows I don't make it any promises. Anyway, um, that's episode one Quick quick thought on the end of episode one. They zoom out to show the island We don't see land masses around it. So I think it's fair to assume It's you know, it's somewhere in the Pacific. Yeah, and we see The top of the stadium that they're playing in has kind of a painted top on it Yeah Now maybe this is just you know, the budget level for the effects, but it was maybe a little obvious that it was fake I mean, maybe chance if someone flies by You know, see they will see that and be like what the fuck that is a fake tree Unlikely, yeah, but it it did look a little odd. Maybe it's minor thing. Maybe it does fool satellite imagery enough Maybe it like because yeah, I think I think you're right that they should probably be a better You'd think they could just have it so that um Maybe some kind of trees are like actual maybe I don't know. Maybe that's too difficult to do But uh, yeah, I I agree seem to have unlimited resources. So I I think they didn't even need that thing at all Also possible Well, I think maybe not because yeah, I would rather the cover than nothing. Yeah Yeah, if it's all wide open. Oh my god, you got a there's gonna be like a plane going by that's gonna see that Not to mention the rain Yeah, that too We wouldn't want any rain interfering with the game Yeah, uh, oh the super chatter comes back. He says I agree. I'm just saying it feels like your coverage is expanding Something I'm very on board with Hey, that's an odd way of phrasing it. Well, don't worry. I guess we can just we can just start talking about the mcu again if you want I say that as if Hawkeye is an odd its way. No way home is an odd its way. It's like, yeah, we will be boy. Hey um So yes Episode two opens pretty harshly with just all of the coffins and they all go to the incinerators And there's one with a person who's clearly not dead and they just like push the fingers back in and just nails the box Clothes like oh, I love that. That's great That's one of my favorite little just little bits in the whole thing It's good. It's horrifying And yeah, and I just like that we cut into everybody is just sitting silent terrified because of that whole experience um and we see uh gihan helping appreciating both sangwoo and ali for Both of them in a way help save his life to a degree, right? Like um Obviously ali way more. So I think he refers to him as a guardian angel um He's an angel. Yeah, and he says you're alive and that's what matters. It's like, oh Oh Go you ali And yeah, because to be fair, I probably should have mentioned like to end the episode as well after They make it but just so much death. It is such a just like fucking hell But um, because we're in the world of netflix. We don't get a week to discuss it. We just go right into episode two Like And yeah, so They explained that yeah, you just a fucking shit ton of people just died as if they didn't know then The I think the way that this sort of runs out as a scene is They assume as players now that they're almost caught in like a sore type situation Where it's just like you're gonna try and fuck with us and kill us. This isn't anything legit but um And so we start getting people to beg and I like that the first one to beg Fucking forgot her name, but she's quite the character in this show Uh, I kind of call her crazy, bitch. I don't know what else to call her Well, the reason I didn't want to say that is because it almost poisons the well until we see more crazy shit from it like And that's kind of important because at this point she comes across as she says like I have a child Please don't kill me. Like this is horrible You can feel nothing but just sympathy for this person because everyone else starts to follow suit But it's interesting that she's the first one and she's doing what she believes to be the best thing to do to live in this circumstance Which is essentially a whole character, but um, yeah, it's kind of funny because The work is just like oh you guys uh, no, no, no, we're not gonna like we're not here to kill you or Make up for your debts or whatever else. We just play the game Yeah, we're not here to harm you sure It's yeah, and it's the kind of thing we're especially on rewatching you're like, all right Look, I get that you you're doing the thing, but like you do know that the way you presented this is bizarre. Yeah At least yeah, pretty shit. Yeah, exactly been straightforward. Um, yeah, they're consistently deceptive and vague I think they're just a toos. I think uh, I think that's the way to describe them. They're being obtuse So, yeah All very rational complaints, and I just I really like that everyone is crying want to go home and stuff and then Uh, he's like consent clause one if you fucking refuse to play you'll be fucking killed. They're like, oh my god Um, and then sung woo is like, oh, yeah clause three, bitch If we all vote to end this thing it ends and they have this little cut back to the square guy Even though it's a mask you you get a sense of like motherfucker Why did you see Yeah, there were three things you didn't expect you to read. I'm back by the way We didn't expect you to read, you know, the third one of those three things Nobody reads the terms of conditions. What the hell I got bored after the second one. Geez. So before we get to the it was like, I so wish I was a triangle right now There's a there's a part where you know, they say but you killed those people and they go They were simply eliminated for breaking the rules of the game as long as you follow the rules We will uh, you will safely exit this place with the promised prize money. They now, um, that's that's a bit of a lie I'd say considering the other players can be responsible for the other people's deaths as a part of the game Um, well, I guess they would argue that is a part of the rules that You know Do you read the rules if you lose tug of war? Yeah, that's that's that's my pedantic question. Is it Are you breaking the rules by not winning tug of war? That's a good. Is it fair question? Like there's a lot of semantics in this the way that they speak to you like Yeah, this is not the scenario where we need to be operating on an understanding Yeah, we need to explicit as fuck um Yeah, what I like about this scene though is just everyone's pretty much unified like this is bullshit No, I don't like this and we can end it with clause three. The guy's like, okay Let me show you the prize buddy And yeah, it's just the way that he's looking at all that money the way that it's lit Everyone just realizing it. It's just like uh, oh, I think we're starting to get an idea because like even uh, thug character like moves someone out of the way like Whoa It puts things in perspective or whatever they use because and then uh, then the square guy's like, yes So the idea is that for every player eliminated you get a hundred million One, isn't it? Uh, I think it's a hundred million. Oh million. Yeah. It's a hundred million one But if you you know like decide to quit and leave Then that money gets given to their families and you guys don't get anything Yeah, those families can do a lot with it. So anyway, all right. Yes Very deliberate very nicely done. It's just like you want to leave. Okay. Here's a buddy by the way. You can't have it. So anyway, yeah, let's do it Yeah, yeah, here's yeah, there's the money I guess And uh, oh that's not glowing that glowing pig the glowing piggy bank up there. That's nothing really I mean, it's that glowing little piggy. Just like Triumphant video game music when it comes down Blablababab at the end yeah chiptuny um And you're the first person to clarify how to get the money is the girl who was begging for a life and a child just seconds ago She's like, whoa And that should already tell you something about her. It's just neatly done. Um so Real quick before we move on one of the things she asks You know, how much do we get at the end and he's like, okay, bitch. Let me explain the math for you We're gonna do this again But one of the things he says, he phrases it interestingly, because he doesn't say, well, it depends on how many people survive to the end. He says, well, there are this many players, so the total will be this. And I think it's not that multiple people can't win the game, but it's a clue as to the intentions of the people running it. Well, to be clear, what he said is there are 456 players, so the total prize money is 45.6 billion. That would be everybody. Yeah, he's not, he's, but I think the fact that he phrases it like that and not, you will win 100 million won and also you'll split. I mean, it's a little wordy, but you know, you would split however many players have been. He deliberately leaves out a lot of details. Exactly. There is a lot of our mission here. So when it comes to the idea of whether people believe that they'll be able to win along with other people, my complaint is not that it's impossible for the game, because you know, based on the math, we'll get into it, but a maximum number of 57 people can win the game. We'll talk about why in a bit, but it seems clear that the people, it becomes clear as it goes on that the people running the game are willing to bend and change the rules just to make things more exciting for them. So I wonder why late in the game people still believe the people running the game will allow that to happen. Okay, well, we'll be able to talk about it more as we go, but because episode two is a bit different from the rest of the season, in a sense. We conduct the vote and like so Guyhan is first and he votes no and it feels very straightforward and just like, yeah, of course, this is fucking nightmare fuel. What are we doing? And then like this, this little sort of old ladies next, she's like, takes one look at that cash and she's like, no, which I think was just a tad over it fell breaking wise. I think I mentioned this to you for one of you guys. I don't know. But I was like, there's some shots later where you show people guessing as it with a frame with the the money's right behind them above them. If you know what I mean? And I just feel like you could you had an easy opportunity to pan it so that she's looking at the options and the camera just pans nice and slowly so that the view changes from having that console with her to the money in the background. And then we see the green light as she puts her hand down just to the yeah, yeah, a high shot. Yeah, a high shot where the money is in the like the foreground and past it you could see her down below. Because instead they show a very deliberately turn around look up, then they show they cut to the piggy bank, they cut back to her looking and then turning around is like, yeah, I get it. I know what she's thinking about. It's fine. There is an element that I definitely get in this show. One of those. Yeah, I get it. Trust me. I really get it. You don't have to be but we'll get to that because it gets really bad later. But you know, it does pop up here and there. Yeah, which by the way, in terms of problems, I'm much more happy to have problems. Very minor. Yeah, very minor. Um, but yeah, we start seeing the voting run and it gets literally to the point of I think it's 100 to 100. But also not worth not glossing over some way votes to stay. To continue. Yeah, like what the fuck. Yeah. Well, um, that was the point I meant about putting it into perspective. We're now in a hypothetical world because it's voluntary. It's like, do you want to risk your life to gain the kind of money that can fix your entire life? And it's like, you know what? I guess I do. And that's what gets brought up when the lady with the kid, she easily presses yes and someone's like, what the fuck? And then she's like, what the fuck? Well, what? We're going to go back to our lives where the same shit will happen. We'll just get killed anyway. Worth while to note, this episode is called hell. Just, uh, yeah. Yeah, because someone's like, we got to leave. Can't keep doing this shit. And then she's like, what changes? Yeah. It's just interesting to consider along with everything we've seen about her so far. Um, and yeah, so they're doing it in reverse order as well, which means you should already figure out who the last vote will be. One, I like the one detail. We were just talking about Ali. Ali hits that X like nobody's business. I always like get me the fuck out. And again, just, uh, we were talking about it a little bit earlier, but, um, a little bit of disappointment again for me where old man is looking at the console and Gihan is like, oh no. And then he, they replay the seat of him being like, hey, I've got a tumor. I've not got long to live. It's like, come on. That's exactly what we're thinking about as an audience. We know this. Yes, I did it. Yeah. You don't need to do it. Give me a little credit. Yeah. Um, and so, and honestly, like, I thought he would hit yes to make us feel like, yeah, unfortunately he wants to play. I think most people did. But the main reason I thought they would is like, they're not going to waste our time by sending us out of the game. Like that's not going to continue. Obviously. Yeah. From a showmaking perspective, you know, you'd think that they wouldn't leave. I mean, we've got games to play. Of course, good game. Yeah, that's the show. Yeah. I'm pretty sure I said out loud when he was last. I was like, oh, well, they fucked. Pretty sure that's what I said. But yeah, certainly if we were only considering the context of episode one, but I think that, you know, you could say several things, but I think he decided as much as I would continue, 100 people don't want to. And this feels unfair to them. Presumably that's why he hit no. Yeah, I'm thinking that's why he. Yeah, that's what I thought. He I thought he hit no because I thought he forgot the rules of how. Which one? I thought the red one meant to continue. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't stop the games is red and green is to continue. I thought it was like X marks the spot like a pirate ship treasure. Yeah, I guess it might be worthwhile to mention that we will talk about it, but there are a lot of people who don't like the ending reveal. I believe that it's detrimental to the show. That's going to be a big conversation. This particular choice, if anything, highlights one of the the reveals that that twist has and gives this a lot of extra meaning. I would say so, yeah. Yeah, we'll get back to that. Oh, we'll get there in 12 hours. Does anyone find it? What would the word be? I guess moderately unrealistic that it's a perfect even split like that, but so many people would want to. I mean, it's obviously done for dramatic. Obviously done for suspense. It is unlikely. It is unlikely. I'll I'll go with it. It's possible. I don't know. I think most people would know the fuck out of there. Yeah, I think so, too. Maybe I'm too optimistic about humanity. You really got to consider how, again, the episode is called Hell, how bad these people's lives are on the outside. For example, Gihan, who is facing his organs, getting pulled out of him soon enough. It's like, and even he voted no. So you have to imagine that people voted yes, had some really fucking terrible lives. And then you get immediately like, hey, fuck the people who voted no. Can we continue? Because it's like, especially if you just played, it's not a good game, red light, green light, where you're like, I can do this. I'm pretty sure I can do this. It's another five games, five and that many. Yeah, it's I think it's very meaningful, moment meaningful, but purposeful that they started on a game where you're like, I could do that. I could do that, not die. Yeah, it's risky. It's crazy. But I mean, I think it might be worth it. And once they show you how much money you're getting. Yeah, man. That's being that deeply in debt, having to spend you practically your whole life trying to pay that shit off. I imagine it's all like, well, why not death rather than suffering? Vast majority of the people they are likely gamblers as well, which yeah. Yeah, it doesn't seem to be an issue where people are sticking around for greed's sake. They're all there because they need that money for something. Not just I want to be rich and I want money. Yeah. And for the sake of the, I don't know what you might call the message of the theme of the show, I think it's interesting and smart writing that at least a lot of the characters, not all of them, that we see, that we understand their back stories. They're there not just because everything about, you know, society sucks. A lot of them are there because of their own terrible. Their own problems. Well, I was going to say that episode two is basically the first half of episode one, but now for all of our supporting cast. Yeah. And I just, I didn't expect this. I was like, they've left, we're done. Okay. Damn. And then the gears in your head start turning and you can sort of pick it up before it even happens. They're like, oh, are they going to go back just because they realized like ultimately, yeah, okay, fine. I do actually think this is the better pathway. And yeah, so we've got in most cases, not only it's the same, like it got worse when they came back. Oh yeah. Yeah. Well, third guy's life, he's soon to be torn to shreds by his people he owes. Yeah. And so when you're at that point, yes, Squid Game is the better option. So that's, yeah, that's basically what this episode's about. We have everyone is dropped back off and we see Song Wu and Aaliyah just like looking to get their phones charged. And I think that when Song Wu gets his charge, all he has is just infinite notifications of repayments necessary. Yeah. Just depressing as fuck. Question. Why did they pick them up individually and isolated but then drop them off in pairs? Presumably that they were dropped off just in the low cat, like there's areas they can drop them off and maybe there's more than pairs. We only saw two pairs. It could be that some of them are dropped off in fives or however many. But Ali doesn't live anywhere close to the wealthy guy. I think they probably just didn't dump them off. It's about an hour's bus ride away. They probably didn't want to dump them all. Yeah. Well, I got no answer necessarily for that. I guess I just I don't know why they did it that way. But I guess there's no harm in doing it that way. Well, I think it does pose some amount of risk to the secrecy and integrity of their organization. I think isolating them when you pick them up is smart. And I don't necessarily understand why you drop them off in pairs. Hypothetically, let's say because we see at least one person, our protagonist who goes to the police. That wouldn't matter when they were dropped off though. No, but if they're dropped off together. And you have two witnesses rather than one. Yes. Well, theoretically, they could still find each other, especially the ones that know each other, obviously. Yes. I think part of the reason for isolating them is that a lot of them don't know each other, or at least this early in the game. There's the couple who we'll see later. They obviously will know each other. But it seems an unnecessary risk to drop them off in pairs instead of individually to me. As someone in chat suggested, it might be because they want someone to be able to help them get out of their restraints. Yeah. Or they could gas them and leave them on like a park bench or something. True. You know what I mean? True. That requires more than that. That requires them like getting out of the vehicle more. And seeing that pink suit. I will assume the organization is at the point where the risk of leaving them in ones and in groups is essentially the same. They have to have control in some degree of secrecy that can account for several of them getting together and making a point to the police or whatever else. I would imagine. Well, yeah, but yeah. Yeah. How would they do that? Well, I think when we get through a little bit of episode two, we can probably start talking about the potential wheel building because we'll get more details as the show goes on. So I wonder when we should have the large conversation ultimately about how the show tries to convince us this exists in this world. That's fair. We'll lay that as a seed for that discussion. Yeah. That is an element and we'll keep adding as we go. We'll plant that seed. But yeah, Sungwoo, I think does he buy him food, offer him the charge and give him money for the bus? Yes, he does. And we will come back to that in a moment because I was talking to Fringy the other day about why that might be happening beyond just generosity, but I do think Sungwoo is being generous. Yeah, he's just like, hey, look after yourself. I'm not going to ask you to pay it back. Yeah. Yeah. And when you're 79 trillion dongs in debt, what's a few more? So Gihan immediately goes to the police naturally and he's like, look, I know it may sound crazy, but everyone had to play red light, like read light and got killed. The police like, okay. And yeah, they give him a card to phone. And I guess they redirect the number back to just a normal number or whatever system they've got going. That's another seed to be planted to talk about, I guess. So the police, there's just nothing for the police to work with. But he did hand the card into the police and they keep a hold of it, which I'm not, I guess I'm not sure that should have happened, but I guess it, you know, it did. And we see just some guy walks in with a, with a perp that we don't know is a detective man. And he's like, hey, buddy. And he looks down. They make sure to show us the camera that he's noted that card. Okay. And yeah, Gihan's having no luck with the police. We should be able to get through this episode pretty quickly because you can summarize sort of what they're doing in each of these scenes. Pretty quick, but the idea is that we're going to be skipping between different characters going back to their normal lives, including our protagonist heading home and his mum, isn't there? Oh, very odd. And I think he says that the door was unlocked. Which is a bit worrying. Yeah. And then we see Sangwoo is looking at his mum, setting up his stall, and looks like he doesn't have the courage to go and see her. And he bumps into Gihan and they just have a little chat with a coffee and a cigarette. And they have a nice back and forth, including that he mentions his futures that he's lost loads of his money on. And Gihan is like, what do you mean? Did you like get a girlfriend? And like the implication with that dialogue being that he got a girlfriend and bet the future of his life with the girlfriend. He just doesn't settle in. Well, I mean, you know, it's not unreasonable, you know. Well, it would be bizarre if that's what his perspective is, but I can believe that's his perspective. How would that possibly work? And I think that's just what he's asking. He's like, how does... Well, maybe it's like, that's what I did in a sense. Maybe I found someone and I had a kid and it didn't work out and that sort of was like, maybe my future and things didn't work out. So maybe in his mind, that's what it goes to. Not like financial futures, things of that nature. Well, it's clear Gihan doesn't even know what financial futures would be. Yeah. Yeah. He's not the brightest old friend. Well, yeah, that's the fun difference between these characters. It's like the heart and the mind, essentially, in characters. Yeah. And it's not just that he doesn't happen to know what financial futures are. That wouldn't make you dumb. But for example, when he promises pickpocket, like, no, I'll forget the money. Just please untie me. She cuts the rope behind his hand and he's like, you bitch, you stole my money. And he doesn't take care to untie his feet. Well, it's funny too. It's all like, I want you to swear on your mother's life that you're not going to come after me with the money. Then she cuts the loose like, give me the money. Yeah, isn't she like that's what your mother's worth? Or something like that. That's what your mom's worth. Great. At least wait to get your feet cut. Yeah, he's impulsive. He's an impulsive character. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, during the conversation, he gets a call at his mom's in hospital. She's got the diabetes. And it's doing the thing which doesn't like diabetes. It comes for your feet pretty early on. That's like one of the first things that goes. I don't know the process for why exactly. But yeah, she's basically like, we can't afford it. You fucking got rid of our insurance to pay off your debts. And we've got no money to pay for it. And she's got to work. Like that's just a good point of view. Yeah, it just sucks. He sucks so much. He does. And you can tell he's desperately trying to find a way to work it. And then as she's walked off, he's like, I'm going to pay for this. I'm going to do it. It's going to be done. And, you know, as a viewer, you're like, is he referring to the weird game? Oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Oh, no. He's corn, corn. Then we get a little bit of what I would call an awkward scene. We see the detective again. And he's in his little car. And he's like, yeah, I'm going to go check on... I don't even think he uses his name. Yeah, he's like, hello, mom. Heading over to his apartment right now. I'm going to read the literal dialogue for you guys. I'm sure he's fine. He dodges our calls all the time. You know what he's like. I can call everyone who might know places he's holed up in before. If I can't reach him, I'll report him missing tomorrow. And then I think here comes the light. Yeah, I'm a police officer. Have you forgotten that? I will find him. I didn't even notice that the first I wrote and now that you read it out to me, I'm just like, oh, fuck, that was bad. Yeah, it's clunky and we don't hear the other half of the conversation. Yeah, I think it'd be far better if we could hear his mom on the other end. But like, it's so clunky because there's some dialogue that I really love in this show. But that one, I was like, oh, man, thanks for letting me know that he's looking for his brother, he's talking to his mom and he's a police officer. I already knew he was a police officer, by the way. I feel like when it comes to... I didn't really get it in Train to Busan, but certainly in this, when it comes to expositional stuff, they really are blunt about a lot of it. They throw in a lot of reminders to flashbacks and whatnot. Yeah, so I don't know, maybe it's just a different style of writing. I don't know, maybe it's just the particular writers of this. Not quite sure. I know it gets bad to the point of cringe in later episodes, but we'll get to those when we get to those. Sure does. So for the sake of a future conversation about this brother... Definitely a planted seed for this one. Yeah, so he is living in a shitty, cheap dorm, studio apartment sort of thing. He hasn't been there in at least a week, but he does generally pay his rent on time, but he hasn't this week. Yeah, and what we know is that this is concerning enough that a missing persons report is about to go out He says what's usual is he ducks calls, but this is unusual, which is curious considering what we eventually find out. We'll have to come back to that. But that is definitely where we're not only planting seeds for future conversations, but also just for people listening who have no idea what's going on. Yeah, it's just Detective Plotline has officially booted. The Detective Plotline has begun, and what an exciting and definitely good journey it is. I can't wait to see where it leads us. Yeah, I know. I'm sure it will lead somewhere good and not shit. Yes, very excited. The interesting thing is that we are now off to a seat I'd like to talk about, which is the... Oh, yeah. So, your name is Sabiak, I think. Yeah, that sounds right to me. I'm likely going to call him Aangirl. I'm afraid. I'm going to call her Pickpocket. Pickpocket, you can call her that as well. Pickpocket. I can call her 67 if you want. So, you can also call her 67, I guess. We can call her Andrew. Yeah, Andrew, if you guys are up for that. You know what? We'll know who you mean if you say Andrew. So, that's... Yeah. All right. Yeah, so she's been telling her brother that she's going to get him out of an orphanage for ages because I think... Is it the dad died and their mum is in North Korea? Yeah, the dad died trying to escape, but interestingly, she doesn't tell that to him. Yeah, and like the other kids are saying she's a liar about getting him out of there. And too fair, this kid is on screen for like five seconds. He's pretty great. Oh, yeah. Definitely believe that shit. And you just get a sense when watching this, like, oh man, all these different motivations that are all very fair and understandable. And you can already see what the point of this episode is going to be. I really like everything to do with her. She's... I have some minor issues with some of the other characterizations we'll talk about, but I think all the writing for her is pretty damn solid. But yeah, we just... I'm tempted to say stuff like that. I'm just doing my best to not eventually just... Because every time we go over a good scene, I'd be like, I like this. It's good. Anyway, we're good. That's good. Yeah, yeah. That's real good. It's just very clear, but now you might be wondering, didn't she get a full million off Guihon? Like, what happened to that money? We're going to find out very soon. What? Because it's like, hey, is that enough to be able to make a difference or whatever? Meanwhile, Detective Man has gone back to the... Investigate it. All in the uya. Yes. Oh, that's a memory. That's so great. So Detective Man found a card in his brother's room, the card that he remembers seeing in the office, whatever, and he's like... Only flash back in case you forgot. Yeah, in case you forgot that he's like, hey, policemen, the guy who brought that card in, give me his address. And for me, I was just like, is that going to be how this starts? You just happen to see that card right as it was put down? Like, okay, fine. Don't let it have a fine sign. Yeah. So that's that's going on. He'd be a bad detective cop if he didn't follow up on that bit of luck. So... True. Take it. I will take it. Yeah, it's in character. Well, you know what? The six of us can decide whether or not we think he's a talented detective or not by the time we get the out of this. He's the wild card detective. So then we go to Ali, and he's off to like a industry works thing, just a place that they make it. I don't know what they're making, but it, you know, it's just a standard sort of... Industrial stuff. Yeah, industrial stuff. Or making industry. An industry factory. Yeah, it is an industry factory. And he immediately goes to his boss and he's like, okay, enough. You got to pay me my my shit because I need money. And then he's like, oh, you know, I can't pay any of you until I get money. And then he's like, so what about the work we've done? And he's like, don't don't. And I think he signposts here. He's like, I couldn't even get money for the surgery lifting up his hand. And you can note, which by the way, it's been noted already. I forgot it. When Song Wu passes him the money, they make sure to show you that Song Wu notices that he's lost two of his fingers on his, is it left hand, I think? Left hand. Yeah. I'll be honest. I did not catch that at all. I completely missed it. I didn't. Well, so I didn't actually either that. I didn't catch it until it becomes relevant. But when you rewatch it, they very clearly show you Song Wu noticing it in episode two, which is going to be, I say important. It's going to be informative for what happens later. Yeah. I noticed later. Yeah. Yeah. And so he's like, give me my money. You owe me my money. And the guy's like, and then grabs an envelope and is like, I got to go. Leave me alone. And it's like, very clearly, there's probably money in the envelope. They get into a scuffle, Ali pushes him, and he ends up having an accident himself, which is pretty fucking gruesome in terms of just, what is a workplace accident for anybody who's worked in any environment like this? You're like, ooh, that could probably happen. Ouchies. Happens very quickly, too. Oh, yeah, yeah. He got herverted. Who bit it? What's the reference? Yeah. Yeah. Monkey's paw? You just keep saying, yeah, but like... I want to give you time. I want to give you time. I want to give you a moment. All right. We said monkey's paw. I'm not familiar with the monkey paw original story. That's right. It was obscure to begin with. So it's fine. It's all good. But Ali grabs the money and runs the fuck away because he's probably now in serious trouble. Yep. He just obliterated his boss's hand. Hey, man, he lost two fingers. It's only fair. As the emperor would put it right, he took off your arm. You wanted revenge. He cut off your arm. You wanted revenge. So then we're back with Andrew. And she's talking about how... It's like, what's going on? And basically, she's talking to a guy who's like, hey, you know, sometimes they just go to shit. This summer went all the way to Dangdong and got caught by the Chinese police. You know, sometimes it just doesn't work out. And so I think we're supposed to gather here. That she gave him the money that should have been stolen from Gihan that should have gone to mother back. But it didn't work. And he seems like a fucking slime bowl in the sea, this guy. He's just like, oh, jeez. No, you know, some things just don't work out. As he pours his, like, pour over coffee, you know, like, bougie, like. No, can I ask a question here? I don't know if this is a normal question to ask or if I'm just totally going to look like an idiot. But you know what? I'm addicted to gambling. So I'm going to risk it. What do they mean when they say a pour over coffee? Because I don't. Idiot. So you take ground coffee beans and you put it in a thing that goes over the pot and you pour hot water over top. Okay. All righty. That's what it. And it drips through that way instead of through a little machine. Okay. So it's about the nature of percolation. Sort of. Yes. Kind of. Okay. I got you. Because I'm not a coffee drinker. I don't do that. Percolation. All right. That's a new word for me. Yeah. Yeah. I knew about percolation. There was a fish in the percolator. That's an odd place for a fish to be. It is. So it's clear that the formula was used for that and it would have been enough to make the mission go ahead. The mission fails. And then he says, all right, I'm going to need more this time. And she's very like to herself. As we've seen of her this whole time. And other than the knife she pulled to release them from the restraints, we've really got nothing to go on in terms of like any kind of aggression. So just, yeah, she's just this chill girl who's trying to make things work. And he's like, oh, so, you know, formula and last time this time, probably at least 40 million. And she's like, and we as an audience just like, damn, she really going to need that squid game apparently. Then I was something. But before he could finish his set, that she pulls all the fucking coffee all over his face. And he's just like, then she pulls out a knife and puts it to his throat. So it's definitely a bit of like, oh, she ain't fucking around your face. No, she certainly ain't. If you fuck her over, she will kill you seemingly or at least threaten it. And for context, just in case it helps anyone conceptualize it, 40 million one is dollars US dollars. You cut out exactly the most is dollars. It's dollars. But it's just money. It's it's money. 40 million 40 million one is 34,000 United States dollars. I see. For a vacation. Yeah. So she's going to try and get it. But before she leaves, she takes his wallet naturally. She be a pickpocket. And yeah. And then there's this scene that it was only on additional watchtowers that I found it much more meaningful that we got a phone call from Song Wu to his to his mom. He's just telling her everything is chill. Everything's totally fine. And she's like, oh, it's going to be great. So proud of you. Everything's so awesome. Make sure you don't get me anything too expensive as a gift. You always do. And he's just like always do. And then I think she's like, there's someone else. And then she's like, what? And then there's a bit of silence, but then she gets distracted by someone who wants a squid. And so the call just sort of ends. And you got to think this is the call that he has with her right before a different scene. We're going to get to it very soon. But you could call this a goodbye from Song Wu to his mom, basically. Yeah. I doubt he's thinking too much, too heavily about a lot of great prospects. But before we get to that, we get back to the moment. She's just chill. And there's this fucking lie that almost caught me off guard. I thought it was funny as hell. She's very proudly talking about her son to a customer. And she's like, not only is he handsome. He goes to that university. He's single. And she's like, oh, it's single. You know, man, like, how old is he? I know someone he might like. And the above just says, he's got high standards. Oh, the fucking woman's face is priceless. She's like, wow. Thanks for that. But yeah, two dating scene in Korea is cutthroat, man. And these two cops show up and they're like, hey, do you know your son's a piece of shit that's... Excuse me. He's got very high standards. This is the scene, by the way, if you look at the dub for it is absolute cringe. Jesus Christ. When I saw it, I was like, oh, my God, that better not be throughout. Geez. But yeah, they just tell her that he's been doing a fraud. Many fraud. Can't be doing that. Fraud master. And she's like, oh, you must be mistaken. You think fraud game. Fraud game indeed. And yeah, and then we come back to him and he... To this day, I'm not entirely sure about this, but with the combined brain power of the cast and the chat, I'm sure we'll figure this out. We see this. It looks to me that Sungwoo is cooking something that's generating something that's probably going to kill him. Yeah. But what is it? What is he cooking there? I think it's just fumes. But it looks like he's got some kind of like... Well, whatever it is, I assume it's just making enough gas and he's closed the door that he's planning on it. In the same way that you can fill your own car with your exhaust, right? That's the way people tend to go that's a little bit more chill than like shooting yourself or taking Hill's charcoal, maybe coal. Something like that. Would that kill him or did he just leave it on because he's not paying attention to it? No, that's what he's trying to do. He's trying to kill himself. I assumed he was trying to kill himself with this. That's what I assumed, too, but I... He learned all the best ways to kill himself at SNU. I remember because there was an episode of Paranoia Agent where three characters are trying to kill themselves and they did the exact same method. Did it work? Everyone's saying he's doing it to build a carbon oxide. It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just curious what this is. I'm not sure. It looks like a urinal cake, as some people have said. I bet if you burned one of those, it would probably... Anything that goes in a toilet is not something you want to be smelling the fumes of. Except water, I guess. Chocolate. A lot of people have been saying charcoal. So it was a dry ramen. Yeah, I think it was... I remember now. Burger beat just overcooked. Yeah, it looks a little... Just a typical McDonald's patty. Fumes will kill you. I don't know. An Oreo? Yeah, it could be. Oreo. By the way, it just... It runs this way and he's having himself lots of drinks too and he's just in his full suit in a bath. I think he's resigned to I Gotta Die because my debts are too much. But just before this, this is all going to be completing. He gets a knock at the door. I'm not 100% sure. But he gets given a card much like the one he would have gotten originally. Many knocks on the door. Yeah, probably because they've got some kind of surveillance. Nobody's ringing the bell. Don't fucking kill yourself. Play the squeak game first. And then he was like, ehh. Don't play the squeak game first. Honestly, they're like, you're suicidal. That's perfect. You have no idea how this is actually great news for you. Yeah, obviously that's one down. And then we keep moving. And Ali gives the money that he got from his boss in a very nice way. It's like the envelope's got blood all over it too. It's just awkward how to get to your wife. Like, it's fine. It's fine. How symbolic. It's like, I'm also gonna need you to fuck off and go really far away. Don't worry about it. Well, yeah. So his plan is for them to move back to, I think, Pakistan, right? And then he'll follow them once he gets more money to support them. That's the idea. So motive very clear. Yeah. And then we see Gihan look into his, the friend we saw in episode one, being like, can I just borrow four billion wad? Which, by the way, without knowing the prices of all the buddy and stuff, that's just funny. It's like, can I just borrow four billion? Yeah, four million. When he gets, it helps me and a lot of people in really, I guess, in any other country where they don't use wad as currency, at the very beginning, he gets how much was his allowance? It was like $10,000 or something was his... I think. I can't remember. I can't remember, yeah. Something like that. But that helps a little bit for kind of keeping track of values. It's like, okay, that's how much he gets for that. That's how I'm gonna say, okay, gotcha. I try to convince him. Because I just remembered it. When he's at the race track, he wins $4,560,000, which is interesting. That's what it's gonna be. Spooky money. Yeah. But the friend highlights what a lot of friends do, which is like, we don't want to be lending money to each other. There's friends that are supposed to do that. And tries to... That's good advice. Typically, yeah, you don't want to ruin a friendship with owed money. It could get real bad. If you owe a friend money, just expect to not get it back. And this is the thing. I can understand it. He is desperate right now because his mom's in hospital. Yes, yeah. I can absolutely believe it. But before you can crack through to him, his friend's wife comes out and she's like, get the fuck back in here. And he's like, oh man. And then she's just like, why are you making this place worse by smoking in it? I think that's her way of saying please leave. You're a bad influence. It's like... So yeah, he's running low on options. And he's having himself a little drink outside a convenience store. And who does he run into? Oldman. Which plant seed, there could be a reason for that beyond just coincidence. So yeah, and he's just like, what are the odds? It's like, yeah, a friend lives nearby. It's nice to see you. And they end up having a chat. And even Gihan is more than happy to give him a drink. But he's just very concerned about his health as well, which is just a nice touch. Like, please don't hurt yourself while having this drink, obviously with the... I don't know how it works for brain tumors. Maybe they don't like alcohol. Maybe they do. Yeah. And they share a ramen thing with each other, which, um... A block of ramen. I don't think I've ever had ramen that's not been turned into, you know, noodles. I'll do you one worse. I've never had ramen. Oh, well, I've lived like a student for many years. Ramen is just like the lifeblood of students. Because both of my... You can get like authentic Japanese ramen, and then shit's pretty good shit. I don't know about Korean ramen. I don't know if they're any different, but yeah. There was someone I knew in my university who had... They stocked up on it almost like as a meme, but they just had this enormous... It was like a refrigerator-sized cardboard box that just had loads of... There was all ramen, and the bottom was a little gap and you just pull them out. This will supply me for at least half a year. It's like, yep. It costs like 10, 20 quid or something. Yeah, because the meme with them is that they are really cheap and they're relatively filling. That is the... Yeah. ...why they're golden. I know the... I know the, like, about it and turning out it's... It's cheap student food, that sort of thing. I have relatives who are in school, and they've eaten it. And I eat it quite regularly, some of them, but I never had any myself. Well, back in Washington state, there was a grocery store that said 10 ramen packs for, like, a buck. It was pretty nice. Damn. Okay, that's super cheap. How does that... Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know. I know, it's cheap. It was extremely cheap, which is why, you know, you always hear college students eating it by the pound, so... Yep. Yeah, I don't think I've ever had it uncooked. Have you guys? Me neither. No? When I was a kid, yeah. Only because it was just fun to eat things that crunched, but I didn't really do it regularly. Like spaghetti? Spaghetti. Well, no, not quite to that. Not crunchy enough. Because spaghetti isn't... raw spaghetti isn't crunchy enough? Well, I mean, no, no, no, I mean, it's too crunchy. Oh, okay. That's okay. Yeah, it's... He's got high crunch standards. Yeah, yeah, yeah. High crunch. Too crunchy. I think I might have even seen in a YouTube video that they sell those separately, like already with the seasoning on it, like as crisp, so chips in the packet, so you could just snack on those. Yeah. As a kid, I would... because we would have a jar where all the uncooked spaghetti would be in, and sometimes I'd go up there and I'd take some, and I just... because they were long rods of spaghetti, essentially, and I'd just put it... I'd slide it in my mouth and just break it apart as it went in. You know, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. Yeah, like an American stereotype with a straw in your mouth but with a line of spaghetti. The pharma. Kind of, yeah, yeah, yeah. The weed. Like Tom Sawyer. You know, he was a... The gunslinger, you mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was a, yeah. He was a gang guy. And hey, you guys got to see that before the Halloween FAP chat, all right? We're going to talk about it. We're going to talk about that movie with Sean Connery and The Invisible Man. Incredible Hulk, but not. Anyway, they're talking about... He basically says, like, I don't really want to sit around and die and that out here it's worse, the old man. And so he's told Gihan that I'm going back. Just like, damn. And we've already seen that several characters have big reason for going back. And the old man says, hey, I got to the line before you did in Red Light Greenlight, so I might have a shot. And of course that he's dying. So it's just, yeah, you just sit there thinking, like, I mean, yeah, let's get a reason to set of any, I guess. I mean, if you're going to die of a brain tumor, I mean, fuck, I don't want to die of a brain tumor. At least it'll be quick. Yeah, compared to, I'm sure. Plus I can make some money. Maybe. He's got a lot to think about, but I think at that point in the story, he's still not fully convinced because we still got something else to happen for him yet. But you guys might be wondering, what about Thugman? What's Thugman? Yeah. Oh, man. Oh, man. The Thugman is like, hey, where were you, fellow minion Thug person? And he's like, so you got to update me on all the different things. That's great. It's exactly the noise he makes. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why they're all so fucking to me. Oh, I was just a little bit. It's the devil. Oh, yeah. It's the South War. Geez. And so Thugman's like, okay, but seriously, like we got to, we got to go back there ourselves and steal from them. And I thought when I first saw this, ooh, that'll be an interesting dynamic because I wonder what that does for the rest of the story in terms of, but then I was also thinking, like, I don't know that they'll be able to get away with it, even in the end, you know, like, if they turn up as a group, first of all, the car might drive past them because it's like, no, we pick up one person. So you fuck this up. But if they all have guns, you think they have some kind of system to account for that? But we don't even get that because the guy is like, look, we ain't doing this shit. You owe big boss lots of money. And well, things ain't looking good for you, buddy. And then he's like, huh? And then he refers to him as Yaku, instead of boss. And he's like, even notices that himself. And he's like, you little shit head. And then if you know this guy, Thugman, he's very unstable. Probably wouldn't gloat to him while in a car. Yeah. With in arms. There's a last person that you want to have next to you with nothing to lose and desperate. And it has a knife. Yeah, the left thing in his face as you as you lead him into this trap doesn't seem to go wise. Like, what did he expect to happen? You know, clearly he was like, I'm going to gloat and then you're going to die. La la la. I just be like, you haven't put this out. You really don't throw this through. He gets all these little T he's out before he opens the door to you. You are you are one in the way of this man in freedom. So that is not the place. Get your T he's out as you're running. Don't do one or the other. So yeah, the guy is like, la la la la tries to leave and Thugman just stabs the fuck out of him. Like, yeah, he stabs him in the leg. And you're like, he might live stabs him in his spine. You're like, no. That just goes to tout on his when he flips him around. Guys, he stabs him a bunch. He just really likes stabbing. He's a seasoned stabber. Very good at it. But then a whole team of thugs show up. And it for a moment is, well, I think he how many he's, you could say that this establishes that he is indeed a backstabber. Nice. Yeah, I got it. Yeah, it's literally. Yeah. Well, he's also a thigh stab around a chest stab. That's true. He's a thigh and chest stabber. You will stab you. What a dingus. And so all these people show up to be like, we're gonna fucking take your eyeballs, buddy, that he's like, bring it on. And then throws his knife at them and runs away. We'll check quite like. I want to point this out from the chat. Bold words for someone in stabbing range. A quote from Thugideus, stabbing. Yeah, isn't there a fucking news report that is something like there's a quote that's like, Oh, God, he's going to stab me. And the quote is from stabbed man or something. You're not going to stab me. I love the way he's willing to just jump over so easily without any hesitation. He throws the knife to distract him. It's another one of those. I would rather jump off this bridge into the water than deal with all of you beating me to death. Yes. Well, yeah, because you can jump into the water and live. Absolutely. I want to take that. And he's very confident because he doesn't hesitate. We don't see him like, Oh, God, I don't know if I want to. He just does it. And then so we cut from that straight to this picturesque, this perfect little family photo. That's a really great edit. Yeah, I just think that's fun. It becomes very clear that that's his daughter. That's the ex-wife. And this is the new guy. And yeah, he just crosses in front of the frame like, what could have been potentially, you know, just, yeah. And so we know he's a rock bottom now. He's asking his ex-wife for money. She's just like, Oh, man. And she explains all of her money comes from the current husband and that they're not even doing that great or at least she's not doing that great for money. Feminism is dead in Korea. And there's a great exchange between them where she tries to chew him out for because he mentions the hospital for his mom and stuff. And then she's like, she's pissed off at him still because of what happened between them. She had to, she was pregnant. She fainted. She had to crawl to get to the hospital. So something like that on its own, we're all going to be like, Wow, dude. That's pathetic. That's your wife, you know, that sort of thing. But he just bites back in relation to what he was doing at the time. And it's almost a little bit vague. But he says, I had to watch him die. No hospital. Like, we don't want to show 100% what they're referring to here. But we'll get more on that later. And it's what apparently would have split them apart, at least partly to do with it. But yeah, no chance since she basically kicks him out. And unfortunately, it's around about the same time that the current husband is coming home. Yeah. But before we get to that, I had a question. Maybe it's a title translation issue, but she keeps referring to him as my kid's dad instead of my husband. And it seemed a little odd that she would phrase it like that, except for the fact that he's going to respond negatively to that. You know, I'm not sure why she wouldn't just say my husband. Yeah, I don't know. It might be a cultural thing. Not sure. But I'm just flat out not sure, yeah. I do not know. What do you think, Fringy? Yeah. What, specifically? Wow. Rags just exposed you. We were talking about how that you're embarrassed now. Ian's wife refers to the new husband as my kid's father. Right. Like in terms of, I've just been skimming through the episodes, trying to get some of these references together in my head. I think I skipped over that part. Well, so yeah. No, it's just um. Capitalist point is that had he had she referred to him as my husband or something, a little bit less incendiary, he'd have less reason to be like, why the fuck are you calling him the dad? You know, when I'm. That could be a linguistic thing. Yeah. Just doesn't translate well. It could. It could very well be that. Yeah. Just a question I had. I think that's an interesting thing when we're talking about the show is that I'm pretty sure it's been said that some of the translations are not direct, which is that there is like a little bit of. Well, I can believe it. When the English. Yeah. When the English doesn't match the English. The titles don't match the English. Yeah. Which is super interesting because I care immensely about the quality of dialogue and the fact that this show can oscillate between fantastic and terrible is like, what's going on here? Is it the writer or is it the translator? Actually, it's a good question because if it is just that she calls him my kid's dad just so we can have that drama. It seems a little, you know, cheap. But if that's something naturally she would say and there's just no good translation for it, then it's fine. Yeah. I think it's the writing, especially when we get our English-speaking characters later and how they speak. I have thoughts on that. There would be a different explanation. I just I don't know that that is a definitive because I could believe it's translation or the writing. I don't think it's a definitive, but yeah. I guess it could go either way. That's what I'm leaning towards. But it's tough to say what this kind of being the only show that, you know. I guess to be fair, we should probably say just because it's X writer doesn't mean all dialogue will be of a particular quality. It can, you know, change. Sure, yeah, yeah. When it comes to the dub, it seems like they're really trying to fit the lip-sync and stuff. So they use tons of those typical crutch words like am I right or understand or isn't that right? It's just it's bad. So I feel like they were trying to fit the lips too much. And they had to use other words. The subtitles on the dub aren't the same. So this is more of a subtitle. This isn't this. That thought doesn't have anything to do with the dub. So he's boot out and the daughter notices that it's raining obviously and that there's no umbrella out there. Riparuni. So it's just, I think the show is like giving her a bit of a reason to be invested. That'll come up in a second. The dad goes out and he's like, here's the money you wanted. And I honestly, I was like Gi-han watching this. I was like, oh, it's nice of him. And he's like, thank you. And I will pay it back. And he goes, no, no, no. This is, I don't think he says it as explicitly, but he's basically buying something. He's like, go forever. Don't contact the family again. Don't come back. To which Gi-han immediately punches him in the face. I think it's a perfectly fair response in terms of how angry you, like that would piss me the fuck off. Well, of course. Yeah. Gi-han is, note here that Gi-han is very, very, very upset at the idea. He will not be able to see his daughter. Yeah. Yeah. He loves her quite a bit. And the idea that this other guy is like, here's what you care about. My, hold on, we're going to talk about, I don't like that you just threw that in there, like until the final episode cough. We'll have to talk about that later, I guess. We'll get there. We'll get there. Yeah. I'm just, I don't like it when people impugn Gi-han. It's okay to free. A lot of people, a lot of people hate the final episode. Chat's going to be raring for us to talk about it. We'll get there. We'll get there. See, they're revving up already. We got it. Yeah. See, y'all excited over there, Capitol. Hey, freeze. Excited too. We're all excited. I think a lot of people are like, where do they get into the juicy topics? Like, hey, there's lots of preamble. We're almost done with episode two. We're getting there. We're almost done with episode two. Yeah. I think we're almost back to the squid game. If you couldn't believe it. I don't think I could be here for all of this. Like, I have to work tomorrow. Fucking really? Come on. Just come on. This is for me. You're not free. Working on a Wednesday job. You don't have to. I thought it was for me. It's like, sorry, I have to work. Geez. That's disgusting. I know. So, oh my god. Hello. The late first one. Hey. It was fine. We'll probably go off to work, like Mel. Hey. Yeah, just to summarize, I like the idea that this Gihan learns from this guy that he believes he cares more about the money than his daughter. That's what's pissing him off so much, I think. When, of course, he has no context for the life Gihan is living and he is trying and just the idea that this guy, he obviously sees him as a form of, you've taken a life from me in a sense and just seeing him be like, his money go away. It's just like, off. But the thing is, in that bout of anger, in that expression of emotion, you might feel pretty righteous in that, fuck you, even throws the money back at him, which just shows the integrity of like, yeah, fuck you. That's not what this is about. Just like, oh, I want money. But then, his daughter in the distance says, dad, why? Like, oh. Why did you telepunch my dad? Because he was acting a fool. And yeah, so I think you can call that rock bottom. That is about as low as it gets. He owes everything. His mom is dying. His daughter just saw him beat up her own, like, well, the current dad, I guess. It's just like, oh, fucking hell. So he goes home in the rain, pretty fucking miserable. And here comes Detective Man. Like, hey buddy, you had the card, right? My brother had one, too, and he's gone missing. Need some help. And there is what I think would be a pretty important line. We'll try and come back to these as we sort of reach conclusions about what the show is trying to say. But he says, why do you think I'd be useful to you or anyone else? Just like, oh man, he's definitely got them. Now he doesn't even care to the point where he's like, nah, nah, I just made that story up. Just fucking leave me alone. Yep. And he commits going back to the squid game. And you're like, oh my goodness. And as it turns out, a lot of our characters have made the decisions. Yeah, all the ones we've been looking at in this episode are all going back. And they have a nice little edit where they're all sort of in the same position but different locations and stuff. Yeah, cool shot. And the match cuts. Oh, and also something that I literally just noticed as I was skimming through it, as soon as the car pulls up before Gihan and then the door opens, the red light switches to a green light. That has to be on purpose. It's just like Spider-Man. Yeah, just like Spider-Man in that great scene. Nobody's beating that fucking Legendary scene. In that really awesome movie, yeah. That really great movie, that's right. Yeah, man, that movie's fucking great. I also feel that that movie is relatively good. The best Spider-Man by action film. It sure is good that we got a great Spider-Man movie. Yeah, it's happening. Hey, look, you sent a great off. It's so far. It's all right. It's gonna flip. It's off about Spider-Man again. Why is it called Spider-Man when Spider-Man is coming out? Yo, what's up, Spider-Man? Spider-Man would fucking dominate its squid game. We did that. We did that. Talking boy. There's an action bathroom of one arm and all of them fall off. Here, Parker's supposed to be poor, so put him in fucking squid game and he can take all the money from everyone else. Yeah, there you go. He's killing everybody. There's this incredible meme somebody did where he superimposes Toby McGuire into all of the squid games and he shoots the web into the robot girl's eyes and makes it to the end. I'll have to find him later. I love it. He may well still fuck up the Honeycomb one, though. That one might trip him up. Maybe, yeah. Someone in chat is saying, essentially, why are you talking about Spider-Man? The Eternals is coming out. Something that somebody has definitely said on it. I was talking to my dad the other day and he was asking about stuff we've seen, movies, and things. And I was like, man, I'm so glad to just be done with Marvel, sort of. There's a part of me that's just, I need a break. I'm so glad that we don't have to cover all this what-if crap. We got shit coming out of this, too. As much as we don't have to cover what-if, we've got Hawkeye and Eternals. Eternal Hawkeye and Spider-Man. I know there's stuff coming out, but I'm just like... Next year, there's like five movies and shows. I like this break and I'm not rushing to it. It's a nice little lull for sure. Yeah, you've been having loads of happy meals in Rome. We're enjoying some Korean food for now, but we're going to go back to happy meals soon enough. Yeah. Asian food's great. Asian food is delicious. There's two details left about this episode. And both of them bother me. So I would say we're doing pretty good with episode one and two. It's good stuff, but they show us the one, the Andrew. Yeah. I've got to stop you right there. Someone is saying that I say man weirdly. Do I say man weirdly? It can sound a little bit like you extend the A. Man? Man? Like that? It's now that my mind is thinking about it, I've painted the sample. Man? Man? Is that how I normally say it? I don't know. Of course, because of course it's not weird to me. So, but now that I'm thinking about it. No, it wasn't weird to me either, but now it is. No, it isn't, man. This is what I'm missing the Andrew reference. Okay, so we're calling pickpocketgirlsabioch. She's called Andrew, okay. Her name is Andrew. He was taken to the collective stuff. So she of like everyone else just sort of goes with like, yep, knock me out, bitch. Let's do it. She seemingly puts like her collar. I'm doing it right now above her face. That protects her entirely. And that's good enough. Yeah. We need to, we need to look at, like I'll show it to you guys. The gas, this shit looks thorough. Like, yeah, it does. Watch as it, as it flows. It's thick with two C's. I'm going to put. It is a very gaseous gas. This gas. That is a gassy gas if there ever was a gas gas. Well, I will. What I'm, I, they must have borrowed this gas. Look at that. Oh yeah. Yeah, it did. No, that's a gas right there. That is, that is malignant level gas right there. Let me tell you, let me tell you. Let me tell you that's some good gas. Someone in chat said she held her breath dot, dot, dot. Now I'm hoping those dots are cappers because if it was just holding your breath and it was that easy. I was about to say like. I don't know a lot of people. Don't you understand the problem? So it's not, it wouldn't be that that is an impossibility that you can't have gas go into your system by holding your breath. I was like, no, we know that. That means that problem changes into, wait, squid game operators. People just have to hold their breath. That's it. If people know that they get gas the first time, the second time around. Yeah. Just hold your mouth shut. You need to have it go for a few minutes. Why don't the driver just hold his mouth shut? Again, to clarify for that particular chatter, whoever they may be. And again, the dot, dot, dot man being your version of capper. So I'll grant you that. I imagine not. Dot, dot, dot is usually I'm annoyed now. The reason I assumed they showed us that she did that with her mouth was to account for the fact that this gas is the kind of gas you can't simply hold your breath to avoid. It will fill the car for a while is what I thought the point was. Right. So it's not. Well, there is, it doesn't fill the car for an incredibly long time because they do show him rolling down the windows, letting it clear and then rolling them back up. To be fair that we don't know how long that passage is necessarily. Right. That's true. That's true. Good old montage cuts. No, I think he wouldn't want to wait there incredibly long, you know, dressed in a pink outfit with a car full of drug people. It's at night. It's the windows are rolled up. Maybe they're darkened. You don't know what's going on in there. But no, you're right. That's what happens. So basically the point of this is that she's now awake. It's like, okay. Sure. And this is the thing. If you have little things like this, you're just like, I guess I'll let it go. But I feel as though these may stack as we go. Who knows? And before you can deal with that, you've got Detective Man is following Gi-han having gotten into that van. And apparently. And he's doing a very bad job at it. But the movie don't. He is close as fuck. If you've watched anyone talk about tailing, fucking Simpsons hit and run isn't even this bad. They'll probably tell you, calm down. Look how close he is. That's ridiculous. He's like right on your ass. Especially when they're in the more remote area. Yeah, nobody's around. Nobody's fucking around. Now I'm not sure. I mean, you guys, you might be reminded when the remosted Grand Theft Auto comes out, the Spook-O-Meter in the tailing missions. That Spook-O-Meter? Oh boy, that is a big fucking Spook. There are lots of movies about this. And there are lots of movies where people are being tailed and they can tell because they're like, I can see that fucking car is following us. It's not hard. And you've got to assume. Well, I don't know. And also because we're about to get into the next episode on just an isolated fucking road. The same car. Yes, yeah. Oh, he must have a house out here too. Oh, he must also be going to this port at 2.30 in the morning. He must be working for Squid Game like anything. That's the thing. I had a friend I was watching this with who's not on the cast, but was very much loving it. I thought it was great, but that was the first one where he went, what the fuck? And I was like, look, specifically this, this part right here. It comes running straight up where there's no one else, right? That is heavily suspicious. Extremely suspicious. So bad for us. And of course, if anyone needs us to explain it, this is bad because it means that they should be able to account for this and prevent Detective Man from getting any further. Yeah. And you think they'd have some guards posted or something? Well, you could be just having basics. Yeah, you think they would. Yeah, I should use my eyeballs. Now. What? I have heard praise of this from several people that I enjoy the company of saying Detective Man was rewarded for his great intelligence throughout the season tonight. No. Detective Man is a roller coaster of competence. We'll say that. Well, so this is literally like the third or fourth seat or whatever with Detective Man. And we're not doing good. We are, we are lucky and we are reckless. So let's hope it gets better, I guess. But it just keeps going. He keeps following them all the way to the point. In another show, he would have to turn in his gun and his badge because he's a loose cannon. The car that he tails seems to be the lost car that like comes in. Lucky. True. Yeah. I know. Didn't he get he wouldn't get caught in the caravan? Yeah. Imagine if you got caught in the caravan. That's what there is a behind the show. People got to do. Excuse me. This is not your caravan. Can you leave? Try to play it cool. I thought this was a funeral procession. I'm sorry. I was showing solidarity for the deceased. It's really super simple. When I saw this the first time, just this shot here, I was like, no, there has to be guards. Why aren't there guards that would see him? Yeah, one here. Yeah, yeah. That's good. But no, they're off and he just fucking sneaks up on the fucking car. The guy doesn't look in the mirror. If he did, he's fine. He's hiding behind a little guard station. It looks like a place where guards would be. I'm sorry. It's weird that there isn't. Yeah, it's weird that this guard station is sans guard considering this operation, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Someone said, is that why Drinker isn't here? If you watch Drinker's video, he makes it very clear the detective plot light is not good. Which is a shame because I really want to like detective. I love detective stuff. Yeah. I really, yeah. I like that. That's my favorite genre of anything. I love detective stories. I want this detective to be like, I'm going to really try and get to the bottom of things. I want things to work well for our detective character. I want to call this guy detective fanning and find out how many people in chat will get the reference. Can I just? Oh, are you referring to the actress Dakota Fanning? No. And how she too disappeared? She too is a detective. Wait, I had a quick thought before we get to other things that happened. So I just wanted to look at this shot and just look how awfully he's doing this. He's literally lined up with the fucking mirror. Like if the guy... Yeah, that one was a big oof. Yeah. So frustrating because the thing is, you're in a queue. There's a good chance you are looking around. And if you just looked at the mirror, he's like, oh, there is a guy attaching himself to my car. And you have nothing else to do. Oh, man. Honestly, that would have made you look at the mirror because it would have gone by it. It would have been a decision. Yeah, just in your... Yeah, it's a flash of red light because the brake lights are on too. Yes, Mr. Taco, you are correct. Thank you. Anyway, do you have... What were you going to say, sir? Oh, just... Okay, so let's say the car drives off and he starts tailing them. What happens if he pulls them over? Not saying he would necessarily, but if he's like, okay, you're driving a car in a strange pink gas mask outfit and there's a bunch of drugs people. And what happens then? Wait, are you suggesting that that could have been a thing he could have done? Like, pull them over and just get them pulled? He could have. Yeah. I'm curious to know what would have happened in terms of protecting the integrity of the game. Not that it was necessarily what he definitely should have done, but I want to know what would have happened. You're asking how do they account for this, if that happens? Yeah, because they've been doing this for some time. We'll talk about it. A while. But a while. Yeah, a long time. And it also makes me wonder why the driver is still wearing the mask the entire way he's driving. Um, for similar reasons. It's a little suspicious. Oh, no. I just realized this is the next scene. Yeah. Yeah. Hang on before we go there. Did he already contact the police department chief guy? Oh, that's that's that really annoyed me too. He texts him. Hey, I can't come in today. I'll let you know more details later. Instead of saying I'm going undercover a really important mission I need. I'm going to do back up. Here's where I am. Yeah, here's where I what the last was. You can find my car as evidence, at least. Yeah, I'll send a picture of this weird line. There are license plates attached to these vehicles. License plates. Yeah. Okay, someone says the police are in on it. That the show is about corruption. I don't know that's established at all. I don't know. They but what the thing is, is that if you are a part of the police and you're about to go on this undercover mission, might be worth while to like let him know. Well, yeah. And Cap's point stands. You still have to account for good cops. Yeah, exactly. Because this is a good cop. So you're going to have to account for this guy. Anyway, at the very least, this is a lucky cop. Oh, yeah. So we have to account for lucky cops. Yeah. The vehicles are all lined up in this ship. He climbs out and then he's just keeping a lookout. And he's lucky that the side of the car he is on is not being monitored while the others are. They've got just centuries looking. There is so many things to the scene that are kind of broken in terms of luck. We have to go one by one. So the way this works is everyone gets out at the same time, the drivers, and then they are supposed to enter the back of their cars and scan everyone in them to log them into the system, presumably. This is possible because of a chip or because it scans the DNA or something. It's got to be a chip. So Matt, I don't know if it has to. Do you think that it's just, I don't know. Because if it were a chip. It's all in the exact same spot. What would it scan for if not something? Well, they do try two parts. Remember, he tries one side of a neck and then he tries the other side of the neck. I wonder if that's... I'm just curious what it would be detecting to identify them if not something. Also, because this is a fantasy thing, we could argue it's just technology that detects the DNA of a person being scanned and then logs them in. I don't know. Is this a fantasy world? Well, they can have. No, I don't like... Did you see that doll robot? Well, that's just, you know, that... That's pretty high-tech. That can be considered pretty high-tech. High-tech, yeah. Well, and I was going to say, you could have a grounded story with one piece of sci-fi tech. You could do that. Yeah. You could. You could. Christy's kind of does that. I guess it's just not that consequential, really. All I'm saying is... They could have scanned anywhere else. They could have scanned anywhere else. It's not like it's... You know, they just chose these things scanning behind the ear for style or... You're right. They do... Sometimes they scan behind the ear. Sometimes they scan the neck, though. So if it were a chip, it would be really weird if they're placing it in different areas of the body, right? And you have to guess. No chips are mentioned, and there's no scar either. So... I think it's just they scan them, and we have to believe that it detects... And it's not just detecting them and scanning it like it combined. It tags them within the system, right? There's a log. Yeah. Yeah. Like, it has to be a log for it to match. It doesn't really matter whether it's a chip or not, but I just... I assumed it was a chip. Well, so the reason why I probably would have it against it is because that's more evidence to find. You know, it's like, I have a chip in my body, explain that shit, and be like, yeah, that is weird. The fuck am I to have a chip? Yeah, I guess... Well, no one knows they have it, but yeah, I know what you're saying. Well, there'd be a... Yeah, it's a... If you chip for, you know, hundreds and hundreds of people, some of them are going to notice a scar or... Especially if they can volunteer out, and then 200 of them are like, we all have chips, we all have the same story. That's very dangerous for this institution. Yeah, the physical evidence would be unwise. Yep, I see what you're saying. Now, all of the side doors open, this is important. They open first so that he can climb in and pretend to be a knocked out person, and then the driver doors open. Now, this is important because had the driver doors open first and they open the side doors themselves, he's fucked. Yeah. But that didn't happen. So then he pretends to just be down and out. Now, this is where it gets a little bit weird because our guy is scanning all the people in this truck, and for some reason, he takes so long that by the time he gets to our dude, it seems like most people are kind of done. This is important again because had he... He doesn't do this, but had he screamed, gone, oh my god, really loud. Our guy would be fucked again. And it's pretty reasonable that somebody would do that. Oh, absolutely. I don't know why he doesn't. This is huge. We've got someone who's awake right now and he's not scanning in the system. This is a huge breach. Instead, he just goes... And then he's like, and just gets strangled and dies. And it's like... And you can't help it at this point. Even before that, when he comes out from under the van, he slinks from one van to another. And it's like everyone is still in the car. Like they're looking in there. There's people up at the... There's a higher level of people with guns looking down on everything who probably could have seen it. There's people who are sitting in the driver's seats of every van there. They cut to this big shot of all the cars and just one of them is doing this rock back and forth, back and forth. It's like, really? No one's noticing this? Yeah, nobody's noticing. Nobody's noticing. Hey, why is it taking that one guy so long to fucking do this? At least that happened next to the first aid kit. Yay. And then we're supposed to believe, right? Everyone's already gone up to just, you know, we're done. That's the job. It's real quick, actually. You go scan, scan, scan, scan. Done. Everyone's up. You see all these people? Look at them all lining up. One guy's missing. He manages to strip himself down, the guy down, and then recloth back up, both of them, which I do not want to underestimate how long that would take in a enclosed space. He was wearing a button-down shirt, too. So there's that. Yeah. And just imagine trying to do that inside a van filled with people. Like, you just awkwardly like, none of them wake up because of that. It was like, damn, those drugs are some strong shit. Well, I can believe that. Yeah, that's fine. And so he then climbs out after it shows that the people have only just made it to the top of the stairs. It's like, you tell me he did this in like five seconds. Like, no fucking, this isn't hit bad. Like, you can't do that. And I can't undress that fast. And I don't wear clothes. And look at the clothing they're both wearing. These are not the simplest of outfits. Like, you got to do a lot of- Yeah, these are. And so he puts his own ID on the body and tosses him out into the water. Just the moment he lets him go, someone goes, hey, what you doing over there? He's like, oh man, I'm seasick. He's like, okay. And the next- Quick question is why does he dress him and put the ID on him? That's gonna- It's an interesting thing you say there. We can assume he just did it for whatever reason, but it's gonna be relevant in episode six, seven. I have a lot to say about that. Yeah, no, that'll- We'll put a pin in this. He put his clothes and his ID on him, and then he dropped him out. I wonder if that'll be relevant later. We'll think about it. It'll be ready for conversation. Don't worry. Now, if you are hypersuspicious of this circle doing some weird shit, would you not just go, let's have a look at the camera. Let's see what he was doing. And you'll find that he's tossing a body overboard, which is like, what the fuck? You think that with all those people monitoring things, because they have devoted so many, so much of their personnel and manpower to cameras and monitoring the contestants. And for good reason. And keeping it all hush-hush. Every, in the room of every one of the staff, there's cameras too. So I'm like, man, how do you get away with fucking anything here? And that is a good question. And they just let off. They're like, just report to your place. Like a good boy. And I guess there was an earlier shot when we first saw him slinking behind the vans. There were people up on the higher level that had guns, and they were just facing towards the vans standing there. And I guess they all left by the time he had to pull a body out and throw it overboard. So we're really not doing great at this point. And this is barely into the detective story. I'm sure it's all over. He's earned his way fully into this with complete horseshit. And it's just, as a viewer, you're like, well, he's in, so there's that. We'll see. I mean, the luck, but also he takes so many insane risks that I don't understand the motive or reasoning for it all. It's not just that it's not just luck. It's that why would he take the time to redress the other body? Well, listen, his heart's in the right place. He wants him to be clothed. I suppose you could argue maybe it's easy. Well, you could just toss the clothes overboard. You don't need to. Yeah, exactly. So I don't know when. I really don't. It'll come in handy, though. It'll come very in handy. So yeah, that storyline, by the way, I was already annoyed with how it was beginning, so I was like, but I thought already that we should be spending the B plot on having one of the members of the Squid Game team, if you will, like one of these guys growing a conscience enough to decide something different. And we could follow one of them on their day to day. So we get an insight on how the back end works. But also I totally agree. And we can do we can intertwine a bit, but I saw someone in chat. I don't know if this is true. Someone in chat mentioned that the detective plot line was added on as a request from Netflix to be able to make the series longer. Man, if that's true, because he barely interacts with the plot line, the main plot line at all. Yeah. If true, you still hope he could do a better job. Oh, absolutely. But I'm just curious if that is true, because, man, it kind of explains a lot. Very interesting. Yeah, I was really hoping I still think it could be very, very interesting if we follow one person who didn't choose to come back and is maybe trying to figure out what's going on with the organization. And instead of a random detective who finds the part, if someone who didn't choose to come back is going to the police and trying to contact other people that were involved. And we see to what extent the Squid Game organization can and how they try to cover everything up. Because you have to assume, because this game is not the first time they've played this game, that this has happened before where people try to report them. So how do they deal with it? I would like to see that. Yeah, you have to have a lot of... Because this is a shockingly massive operation. I don't think that could be understood enough. This is not some small covert... I mean, I guess it is covert in technicality. But this is quite the operation. A lot of people in chat are saying it was confirmed in an interview that he was a last-minute addition to the show, which, holy shit, man. You feel it? That explains a lot. Because we'll be talking about the headboard as we go. I've seen someone say as well, doesn't it make sense that you put the clothing an ID on him so that it's an identified body instead of being something that's just mysterious and strange? Well, when it's your ID... Well, the problem is that if the Squid Game people find us, like, wait, why weren't we told that a cop had snuck on board? Yeah, because if you're supposed to assume from that, that someone tossed him on the board. Also, presumably the Squid Game... I know it's a cop because this is the ID of the cop. Yeah, that's how simple it works. And also, yeah, they wouldn't look the same either, right? If they're ID and they've got the photo. And plus, surely you know who your employees are. Yeah, that's a big thing. I think you would know. Yeah, as much as they do the whole... You don't want them to show their faces to each other, but you know who they are, right? Yeah, there's no way that the higher-ups don't have everyone's details on fire, which we know they do. Absolutely. I mean, they happen for the contestants. Well, for pay. I mean, you... We all saw that. Yeah, I mean, you've got to know who they are. And yeah, they show us the process this time, kind of, so we can understand how they get from A to B. But something, again, that's just kind of like, all right, is that while they're taking the clothes off, Andrew, she pops the knife into a pocket. And then when they put her clothes back on for the Squid Game stuff, she pulls it out of the pocket. And it's like, wow. Man, risky. And I will admit, yeah, she's a pick pocket, and they can be very fucking stealthy. But I wasn't impressed by what they showed us. I kind of wish they didn't show it so overtly. When she drops it in, she drops it in. Yeah, you notice when things fall into your pocket of that weight. You feel that, yeah. That wasn't stealthy at all. If they hadn't showed it, and then she just produced it later, I live, left it to the imagination. Like, oh, the pick pocket thief found a way. Okay, I can believe that. Well, how we know something else was smuggled in, I could have believed that she did that. Because the knife is really small. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Instead they show that and it's like, Yeah, that leads us into reawakening. Because, and I think they say that there's a 93% return rate. Pretty high. That is pretty high, yeah. And we have the old man's POV this time as he wakes up. And Guihon's already there like, hello, buddy. We're back. Hello. What's up, Robin? Oh, no, I haven't got the subtitles going yet on this one. My idiot. How am I supposed to know what's happening? I've got a fool. You're not. It's up to your imagination. Almost feels a little bit weird as a show, but I think the viewers at this point are like, I'm ready for some next games. Let's do it, even though it's just horrible. But I guess they're all kind of like, they're a bit more determined now instead of just terrified animals, running around, headless sort of thing. Now they're like, right, we're here to do a job and win. We have chosen to come back. It's, we're in it for, we're in it to win it now. And something interesting happens. They, we see an effort to make teams is starting to happen. And it's like, because Ali and Sungwoo show back up. And I think Guihon is kind of making a joke about it. But he's like, we're an army team. I'll be the sergeant. Sungwoo can be the lieutenant or something like that. Because he's smart. Ali will be our new recruit. And the old man can be like the, he's just the old guy who's been in here for years. The old general man, something like that. It's all, it's just pretty chill and wholesome. And you're like, man, I'm sure nothing bad will happen to any of these people. Yeah. Yeah. I hope nothing bad happens to these people in these games of life and death. It'll be great. Yeah. And they spot the girl. She's like, that's the girl who wanted to see a kid or whatever. The old man is like, do you think she named her kid yet? Like, because they're just like, who the fuck knows? Because she's a, who knows what she really cares about? Yeah. Sungwoo does not have his glasses this time around. So I'm much harder to understand that he's a smart man now. I have to rely on his like dialogue and stuff. Yeah. And then I think at the same time, interestingly, Thugman is like, hey, Andrew, join our team. And Andrew's like, I don't trust fucking anyone. That ain't happening. And she even says, there's a back and forth I found pretty interesting. She explains to his current set of people that they shouldn't be following him because he's in here because he was stealing from all of his minions until he tried to steal from the boss. And that's what got him in trouble. And she said, in a derogatory sense, do you know what everyone would call you? And he was like, what? And she says a damn revolutionary. I assume that refers to like, he's almost redistributing the wealth because his response is a communist bitch that he goes to like Hitter. Which I found a little confusing. I was just like, huh? Yeah. Wait, that's not what I... I thought she said it slightly differently. I don't know if you have a different subtitles than I did, but... Maybe. What did you gather from it? Because I was a little bit confused by it. Like, I thought the idea was that like in my hometown... In your hometown? You cut out? Yeah. Am I cutting out? Right again. In your hometown? Yeah. Like in North Korea, they would have called you like... I forget. It's like... I forget. I forget. The impression I got was that she was like, oh, in my hometown, we would have called Neri's scum because they're... What? Cut out again? No, shit. It's not an important point. Let me reset my Wi-Fi just to... Oh, okay. A lot of people are saying it's a reference to North Korea. Bad people are rebels and revolutionaries and they're communists. Oh, yeah. Honestly, I didn't quite catch what was happening in this scene because the other thing I wanted to talk about that I found interesting was before he can like beat her up, I guess, the other girl cuts in. And I've wondered this whole time, was she doing that to help her out? Or was she doing it because she has her own interests? I'm not 100% sure because it seems like she just accidentally broke up a fight there or was she looking to do that? Either way, she's like, I'll join you. You don't need her because she's super thin. I believe that she was looking for a place to insert herself. She seemed to fit in line with kind of her look and where can I, you know, make myself known? Where can I be? Yeah, with a strong crowd. Let's try Singapore. What's a robot? Is that a robot now or is it just me? Popped us to Singapore. Hopefully that saves the day. Yeah, hopefully. All right. Cap, what were you saying? I don't even remember anymore. It's not crucial. We can keep moving. Yeah. Well, okay. So I was going to say we probably should try and step on the gas a little bit. But yeah, she's like, let me join. And at first he's just like, what can you offer? And she's desperately trying this, that and the other until he's basically like, sex. And then she's like, and then it gets a little bit more threatening until the conversation ends. And it's in retrospect, it's enough that she's probably figuring out at that moment what she's going to need to be doing to survive potentially. While Andrew was just like sitting there like, huh, that was a thing. But I'm fine. This is going to be 24 hours. Nope. Please no way. So they're all lining up and they got themselves what I would call it. Yeah, it's a meal. It's a chill. You got like, I think it's egg rice and a couple of other things. Like, yeah. And this is our character building scene. They start saying like, since we're a team, we should share names. Before we get to that, I have a quick question about why they would give them crappy food on purpose. Well, we get, we can address that when they do. I don't know that this should be considered crappy food. Well, he says that it's cold and so that doesn't affect the nutritional value though. No, no, no, I don't, you know what I mean. Like that they give them cold. It's that's what I mean. It's fine. He said he prefer it hot, but that it's still good food. Okay. We can, we can talk about it more when they start giving them less food. It's just a question I had continue. Mel, what were you going to say you fuck? Well, I'm trying really hard to say something. You got to push past these people again. You got to push past. You got to punch in the face. You got to push them down and never survive in Squid Game. Nope. I would be in that. That would be different. I would go the other way because I would just say they get little food for their, for their head, for their on. Right. This is probably the last proper meal they get for the duration of the game. Like they did, but yeah. So don't go into it too much. What, what are they then just again, they're just doing names and stuff and it's pretty chill up until we get the good old fashioned. When do people speak and why? And it'll give you a nice pieces to think about. They're, he's bringing up the past. Each of them is sort of reminiscing about the meals they would get when they were younger. Then he asks Song Wu about it. And like, he just cuts in. He's just like, let's try and stay on the subject. Let's think about what the next game will be. It's like, hmm. Yep. All right. I mean, you can tell he's a little bit down about everything. Okay. Which is pretty reasonable. And yeah. So they obviously figure out, well, if we've been getting red light green light, there's a good chance that we might get more children's games. It's time to think about all those ones and think about how we prepare for them. And I think he splits them up into male and female in terms of listing them and how they might go. The hopscotch, bisso, jibajie, donkatsu, freeze tag. I know freeze tag. Ooh. I know hopscotch. Yes. And yeah. So they're just like speculating on that. And there's this little great moment where Ali is like, I don't know what the fucking any of those games are. And Sangwoo just cuts in and he's like, listen, all those games are easy to learn and we're going to teach them to you. And then it's, um, Ali takes that very positively. Like, oh, that's great. Thanks, man. While there's a second reading of that when you think about Sangwoo as a character, not necessarily that he's very invested in a person learning and having the best chance. I think it's more so about. We'll teach you so that we win. Yeah. It's important for the team dynamic. Which again, you can see in Sangwoo's face when the old man is like, hey, can I join your team? And he's like, yeah, man, you can be our major or whatever. Sangwoo's face in the background. He's just like, hmm, yeah, it was just strong and healthy people. Like it's always wants to get the best ones. Yeah, it seems apparently best ones. Seems to me that Sangwoo compared to last time is coming in with a much more specific mindset, even just from these little interactions. Like it's already very clear that he's thinking very specifically about how this is going to go. I think you called him a computer basically when we were watching it together. Well, I like to think of him and, uh, him and the protagonist as sort of representative of letting your heart sort of run with it and your mind sort of run with it. And we see the dangers of that in both of these characters. Um, get a little dichotomy as they say. Yeah, wait, I think they're just kicking on. We get a little bit of detective man because he had a key in his clothing that had a number on it. He knows which room belongs to him. And so that's good enough for me. You can fake if you follow everyone going to the respective rooms. You know which room is yours because you're a key. That's that's fine. But, um, yeah, yeah, he gets a look, I think from number 28. He's 29 and it's just like, hmm, is 28 looking at him because he struggled with his key a little bit or is he looking at him for another reason? I imagine we're going to find out. He seemed to be looking at him before he started turning the key and screwed it up. I think the only first watch you're supposed to believe though is just the key, but we will decide. I never bought that. It just seems to like you're going to get suspicion on someone because they had a very minor issue with the key in the lock. Well, that's the, that's what I'm saying. I think it's just to give a viewer a reason for it before they give you the actual reason. Yeah. And so anyway, we cut to nighttime and a crazy lady is about to peel over the floor because she needs to go to the toilet and they won't let her. Which to me, it's like, you must have a system in place for this, right? Like, surely there's theoretically, you theoretically have 500 people in this room and you know what mammals do. So I don't. You know, those endotherms, um, she finally gets it's very strange that they they act like they're not going to let her go pee because it's past curfew. Plus, if this was meant for people to watch, particularly, you don't want to see people just peeing and pooing. Yeah, you don't want to know. Some people do. Some people do. That's true. Some people do like that, like that sort of thing. Not me. Oh, yeah. And we got, uh, talking about the suspicious, right? We got, he gets his meal. Our guy, he awkwardly looks at the camera and then looks back and slowly takes all this stuff without ever looking at it. And I think the thing that made it for me in terms of just, oh, come on. Is that we, we see that someone is staring directly at him, like, I think it's like a big screen. I guess we're supposed to assume it's what he's being stared at is one of the people who is in on it, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's the best faith interpretation. Yeah, but we could talk about how that works. It's so fucking lucky that he looks enough like the guy he took the place of that they wouldn't be able to tell from that image here. Wow, Asians are racist. Exactly. And that even if it is, you know, the guy watching at the screen right now is also in on it. Good thing he's the only one that ever looks at it. I don't know why they showed us this. Like if they'd made it so he had his back to the camera at all times, I'd be like, okay, but that right there. It's like, oh man, you can pretty much make out the face now if you know him well enough. It's like, yeah. Yeah. What are you going to do that? It's a cop would be avoiding cameras looking at his face. Well, I mean, that this is the kind of the angle here that's like, and I think at this point in the show, you might be like, so what's his plan? Like, yeah, yeah, we're going to get to that. You might be like that. Also, I think I noticed a small mistake here because I saw something shine. Hang on. Oh, it's an awkward place to find a mistake, but don't worry. You won't see anything. What's supposed to happen here is crazy lady pulls something out of her extra pocket. Let's put it that way. And the thing is before she grabs it, you can see she's holding something in her hand. And that's going to be the thing she pulls out. There you go. She did not dedicate herself to the craft is what we're saying. It's just all good. She's holding it in her hand there, and then she puts her hand all the way down. We panned up and she's like, oh. So it just comes across as she's putting it in. Like, what are you doing? Yeah, you think that you would just cut away to her face going, oh, you are. And then we have it in the next scene. Where are we all going to come through moves? That's the fucking sound they make when there's something really big in there. And so then you cut back to her pulling it out is a new scene. And it is like basic stuff. I don't know why they showed her putting it in, her hands in her pants with it. Very unusual editing, but it's a bit of a nitpick. I know it's an editing mistake. I think, Mel, you were open thinking about this, but I think everyone has kind of a similar thought of all the things you could smuggle in. It was cigarettes. Okay, I guess. Hey, listen, it's an addiction. It is. It is. You want to get them ciggies, but a lighter. Once you have the idea to smuggle in cigarettes, shouldn't you go, oh, what else could I smuggle? Exactly. And I even had the thought of like, I know it's disturbing, but surely they would want to check to make sure you're not doing this. You think? Yeah, they'd probably do a cavity search. And this is a lot like a prison in some ways, you know? Yeah. If you were like, no, that would be gross or whatever. It's like, they're killing people. Let's be real. They apparently are surprised that these people have to use the bathroom. So, I mean... It's weird. You get a little gross. Yeah, when you summarize all these bits and bottles, it's like, it is a bit, all right, yeah. But yes, Andrew's plan is to use the knife she had to unscrew a vent, climb up it, and have a look if she can get any details about what's to happen in the future. Now, when I first saw this, I was like, you're gonna have to luck out to get anything you can fucking use, like... Oh yeah. Yeah. You're crawling around in vents. She's got like 30 seconds at most, and it's super risky. I was just like, what could this possibly lead to? I thought you'd just try to escape or just hide and try and find the way out or something, which would be weird because you came back voluntarily. It's weird that you would try and escape, but like right now, but I just don't... Yeah. No camera in the bathroom. And I know, again, people will be like, well, that's a violation of liberty. Let's be honest. Yeah, we wouldn't want to do that. They were rather fine with burning that one guy alive. Yeah. I think they'd be okay with standing and watching you pee. I think, absolutely. I think they would be willing to go in with you and be like, yeah, this is how it works, bitch. Oh yeah. Yeah, stand outside yourself, everything. This story, like, honestly relies on, like, you wouldn't want to come in here because I'm pooping and that's gross. It's like, come on, like... You would, oh boy, there's no toilet roll. I'm going to wash my butt in the sink. You wouldn't want to see that. It's like, why are we five years old? Come on, like, they're not going to care. They kill you on the regular. Yeah. Yeah, they'll step in just for her shouting so damn much. They'll step on it and be like, shut the fuck up. Yeah. What she sees is that they are making something up and involves lots of sugar, like, sugar. And it's funny because with how their meals work, my assumptions have just been like, I don't know, it's just fucking making something for food. I don't know, like, the automatic assumption is this is the clue for the next game. And I remember when I first saw this, I was like, oh, okay. I guess. Oh, that's a clue for the next game. I had, yeah, I was in the same boat as you. I had no idea this was supposed to be a clue for the next game. Why would it be? Was the first thing that you, yeah, the first room that you can peek in through and they're cooking something. I assume that that's your next meal. Yeah. Yeah. Like, they have to get the food to feed you. I assume that's what this is. It's some mixture that they're going to give you, which technically it is, but not in the way I mean it. Yeah, we got a little bit of tension. Will they be discovered and Guy eventually gets enough to she's seen that and he comes in right too late where they've already put it back up. And he's like, oh, how awkward. Poopy. Oh man, why does it smell like cigarettes in here? And why does it not smell? It doesn't smell at all like poop. It's like, I guess you have really nice smelling poop. There's a distinct lack of poop. And yeah, and yeah, they're all incredibly suspicious. And just fucking one. If they had a camera in there, it's over. They'd be like, you two have cheated. You're out. Yeah. And of course, crawling through a vent is never quiet. Well, yeah. Someone notices it and then someone else like, hey, get back to stirring the sugar. Cause I remember there being an actual misbusters episode where they tried to have you climb through the vents. It's just the noisiest fucking thing ever. Because Adam aren't even meant to carry shit. You got to remember, right? Adam Jensen has augmentations that like make it so that he can climb through ducks stealthily, but you ain't Robocop, right? You ain't climbing through these vents. Robocop would not climb through vents quietly. That wasn't a good analogy. Yeah, Robocop wouldn't, but I, how familiar? Ah, whatever. Is that right? Have you seen Robocop? No, he doesn't refer to the character Robocop. He's like a robot cop. Adam Jensen is Robocop. If you say Robocop, people will think of Robocop. But also they'll think about all of the other things you just said leading up to that point. And then you get to the words Robocop and they think, oh Robocop. Right, as opposed to all of the other references to explicitly to a different character. Everyone thinks Robocop is his name. Robocop's a neat movie. That's what I think. Also someone saying Adam Jensen is not a cop, so. Yeah, he was. Robocop is, it's in the name. No, he wasn't a cop either. He was the head of security or. No, he was a cop and then he became head of, and then he became a security guard. Okay, fair enough. Anyway, back to Robocop going through vents. That's right. That's a good newsy Robocop. Question I had. So she comes, she comes out of the vent and we get a close-up that indicates that there's a screw. Oh, it's not put all the way in. Which amounts to nothing. And that seems like a setup. I guess it's not through in the bathroom, all right. I guess the reason they showed us that would be like, wow, that was close. Oh, what I thought it was, oh, someone's going to find out. Well, yeah, is someone is ever going to check the fucking screw on one of the vents in a bathroom to see if it had been manually, like I. Yeah, well, yeah, you'd be like, yeah, why would we check that? We would notice is like, well, it is strange that we got a close-up of it. I think. Yeah, like it would be looser and fall. Surely there's an employee for that. Because you'd be like, why would we check it? It's like, well, it's a direct access from the fucking toilet area to us. I feel like we should probably have an eye on it. Maybe we should just put a lock on it. Lock on it. Maybe we should wash them clean. It's not the silliest fucking thing in this facility. So why not fucking do it? So I found this quite amusing. Maybe I'm on a bit of an island with this one. But when he's typing his notes into his phone, this makes you think that if Frodo were in Mordor, he would type Mordor Orcs Lava. Yeah, yeah, it's fine. But like, it just, yeah, it's felt awkward. And he hears a cough, a cough. What, what, what, I don't know. Anyway, you know, it's fine. Move on. That's a loud cough. Yeah. It does sound like he's dying. Help me, help me. I'm done. Who are these pink people? Obviously, we don't know. Wow. Wow. Yeah, never demand. What's still these fucking pink people? Never demand to know the white people. But so it's definitely, you know, framed like there's something akin to prisoners too. Based on their living conditions. Now it doesn't necessarily mean they're prisoners, but there seems to be an implication that they're not much, they're not thought of much tired by the people running the organization and the competitors themselves. And I'm just, I have a lot of questions about them. Well, that's, that's, that's theme presumably right. That's what? Theme. Okay. So my response is because you're talking about the narrative reasons. I assume they're paid extremely well and they're told if you don't follow the rules, you can be killed. I would assume that is what I would assume. Yes. We will give you lots of money. Also, we will kill you. That would work for me. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting though, because I wonder what kind of people they get. Not that it's a problem, but I'm very curious what kind of people because unlike the contestants, that have the sort of distance between them and the moral, moral responsibility of all the people that were dying, because at least up until now, they haven't been killing anyone directly, but the people with, you know, the pink people are obviously killing them directly. So I wonder how they've managed to get all these people to do this decade after decade. Yeah. I think it's an issue of, and I guess we're going to have to have that conversation about this whole operation. Yeah. Not sure when, but we will. Okay, we'll call that another planted seed. That's cool to me. Yeah, we'll plant that seed as well. We're going to have a fucking crop at the end of this. Talking about the clunk, the two girls come back and we get a song with POV and you just hear the conversation, which is, hey, what did you see? Come on. What did you see? She's like, I'll tell you tomorrow. Why tomorrow? Tell me now. You were up there for really long. What did you see? Hey, what did you see? You must have seen something. Come on. It's like, oh man. Yes, so Song Wu gets the idea that they have seen something useful. In case that wasn't clear. What did you see? What did I just say? A detective man, meanwhile, has woken up for his daily. He has no, this point is so strange. He's just like, what's the plan, bro? I guess you're just going to have to keep pretending to just be one of the baddie. Or I guess just exist here, hopefully. The extent of what they're doing. Just going to have to try and luck out more and more. Because obviously as the days go by, you just have to be a sponge, I guess. But at the same time, you're going to slip up eventually and do you have a plan? Or you're just going to cross that bridge when you come to it? That's probably the idea. Yes. So yeah, she says that what she saw was them melting sugar, or at least that's her theory. And she's like, melting sugar. That's it. And she's like, mm, that's the clue. I had 30 seconds in event. Yeah. You're lucky. I have anything to tell you at all. Yeah. She could have just walked forward so that they could come back. Also, this doesn't lead to anything, them knowing? Yeah, it does. It does. Oh, in terms of, wait, what am I forgetting here? So I'm going to find out because of her. Yeah. How about the sugar? It clues him onto what game it is, which is very important. Oh, I thought the clue was when he, well, he figures it out once he gets in there and then he sees it in person. So you get the shapes plus the melted sugar. That's the two clues. Okay. All right. Okay. Okay. I got you. I got you. Um, yeah, he's just doing his thing. Number 28, giving him a weird look. He's just like, number 28. Are you like gay for me? What's going on? I feel we'll have to find out. And they get given there, like a bread and milk. Um, I think Sangwoo gives his bread to Ali and Jihan gives his milk to Ali as well because he's allergic, I think is what he says. Or something he doesn't like normal milk, I think. Just more sharing of them fun things. But there's a character who digs into his bread and finds a note. How very interesting. Oh my goodness. And yeah, I guess we'll find out more about that soon enough. Um, so yeah, off to the off to game two. How exciting. We're finally there. It's only taken us three and a half hours. And so yeah. So for those who just have no context, because they listened to us, because they like listening to us break stuff down, they enter a big old playground with giant versions of like the, I guess a playground stat. And they're all speculating on what the fuck this could be. But at this point, a song was already gotten the sugar information from Andrew. And then they see the shape show up. You get a circle, triangle, star and umbrella. Now I'm going to lie. When I first saw this and I was like, if I'm going with a random shape, I don't know. I honestly was like, what about the umbrella? That seems so unusual that maybe that's the correct one. Yeah, so odd and specific. You don't want to pick the umbrella. No, you do not. Really don't. Yeah, a song we realize is what the game is, which is you have to, you get given like a honeycomb candy in the form of a circle, but there's a shape inside it, and you got to break the shape out without damaging it. So the one you want is probably the triangle. So you could give them like a needle to cut it out. Next up probably square. That'd be a good one. I don't think you get a square. So next up triangle, circle, star and umbrella. Star being the worst one. The star is like, it's pretty simple. It's just a lot of time. And then umbrella is like, just the worst. Because it's just, it's not. It's the worst by far. It's so, it's going to get so fragile on the handily part of it. The, yeah, it's going to be tough. So, Joe. Well, hold up, hold up. Wait, is it um, we have to, we have to, is this an umbrella or a parasol? Umbrella. Umbrella? Yep. Because it has the, but I thought the parasol had the hook at the bottom, right? I think umbrella is one that has a hook. Most umbrellas do. Yeah, umbrellas have a hook. Because I, okay, all right. Not to mention, don't umbrellas usually have like the spikies all along the bottom end? Yes, I think so. Oh, I think so. Yeah, parasols don't. Well, parasols fold, don't they? Yeah, but not in that, not with that many spokes, you know. No. I assume you can have different ones. I don't care. Okay, okay, okay, okay, fine. So, uh, Jihan suggests they do it as a team and they all select the same shape. Sangwoo was like, no, no, no, no, we should, we shouldn't put all our eggs in one basket. We should separate, uh, which when we know that he knows what this game is, that's very suspicious. But at the same time, at this point in the show, you might not know like what he, you may, you may still not know what this game is. You can still believe for a second that maybe that's helpful in some way. You don't know yet. But you can tell from his body language that something is up because he's like, I'm a go for the triangle. And then Ali is like the circle reminds him of something from home. I think he says, uh, like the sun or moon circles. And so then it's down to old man and Jihan choosing between and when Jihan says I'll go with the umbrella because I was always losing it. And my mum would get really angry at me. And someone was immediately like, you're going to, you're going to. Okay. And it's like, hmm, it's clear that if the scenario is Jihan or old man ended up with the umbrella, you know which one song we would want to happen. Yeah. He wants the old man to get that umbrella. Yep. Because he's useless to him. I want you to die, old man. He just looks guilty as fuck for the rest of these seeds. Super awkward. Super like, hmm. And there's a particularly fun shot where they all walk to their respective shapes and Andrew is looking at him from off to the side because she knows that he's just recommended them go to these shapes. Or at least they would, nobody would willingly choose umbrella if he's giving information that he has. So, um, something he's doing something there. And, uh, let's just say that it's not just his own guilt. He's dealing with, he's got a small audience that knows what he did. But, um, he doesn't see that she's looking at them though. But it's just, it's just information she has, you know. And so, yeah, they get their shapes and it wasn't until they literally explained the rules that I was as shocked as Jihan is. I was like, oh, you've got to do that. Because when they were looking at these shapes, I was like, I still don't get it. Yeah, me neither. You just call them Jihan. Jihan. I don't think I would mispronounce both the words at the same time just to say that, but maybe. I will take credit for the joke. Yeah, they just have this shot where the camera does. I don't even, I'm not even sure what this is called, but whether they expand the back with the focus just because he's realizing that, as he says, he's dead. Oh, it's a dolly zoom. That's what it's called. So you either push the camera in while zooming out or you pull the camera back while zooming in and it gets all flimpy. Yeah, a lot of the characters we're familiar with have triangles, so they're probably going to be right. Oldman has a star, which is a little bit more complex. Same for Crazy Lady and Thug. Then our lad has an umbrella. What's going to happen now? There's no bueno. This is one of those games I'd be curious to play though. I want to see how difficult it is. Yeah. I think I already saw sets for those being sold somewhere. Makes sense. I'd wonder about the whole part about like, do you think it would be better if everyone just had the same shape? It makes it a little bit better in terms of your feeling. If you were all randomized, you'd just be like, well, that sucks that they got the easy one. I got that. Meanwhile, if everyone got an umbrella, I feel like that'd be more interesting. Yeah. It does undermine the stated idea that this is sort of equal and fair. Well, well, well, that's a topic. Oh my goodness, you brought up another seed. We should probably delay that one more line. Let's just plant that seed. All I will say is, all these seeds are growing metal. Furnace is complicated. Yeah. You have to go before any of these seeds can be eaten. Yeah. Very upset about this. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Well, just keep it in mind, the fairness stuff. We will try and come back to all the examples as we get further along. But everyone's doing their dondust to chop through these dastardly honeycomb treats. And I do like the random cuts to just the eagerness of the people with guns, just looking at them with their guns, still just with the radius. It's like, yeah, I know. Okay. I'm still, I'm fine. Leave me alone. Just making sure. Hold on. Fuck up already. Fuck up. And yeah. And I think it's the guy on the slide is the first one to, he fucks up his umbrella. It breaks in half. And I think that that is the moment where you go, I regret coming back here. This is a mistake. Yeah. He's just like, please give me to the shot. It's like, nah, mate. Those is the rules. Badoom. And he has a very dramatic slide down the slide. He crawled all the way up there. That's that. He was like, this is the spot where I'm going to, going to do my thing. And you know what? Him doing that meant someone had to climb up there with him. He'd be like, all right. You got to go climb up and check on the slide guy. Why'd we fucking even have this slide here? It doesn't even have anything to do with anything. And yeah. I think in reaction to the gunshot surprise, someone breaks their biscuit. They're like, no, no, no, no. Yeah. We just see a couple people get shot. Hoover. Yeah. I like how the old, the old guy, you notice that he kind of like licks the tip of his needle. He's like the first to do that in order to like kind of help him along. Yeah. I think a thug guy does that as well at one point. It makes sense. There's different strategies trying to get through this. And obviously triangle people are getting close to finishing it already just because triangle is to the point where you dig in and then you can snap it off. We even see that happening. It's just like, oh, so much easier than everyone else's shapes. But we enter. It's interesting because circle is kind of deceptively hard. Yes. It seems like a simple shape of it. You can't really snap it. Well, Ali's strategy is snapping small amounts all in a circle over and over and over and over again. It seems to be like approximating it. Yeah. Yeah. No. So how the fuck is she not getting caught? This is pretty awkward. I know. When you're using a lighter, you can not only hear it, but you can kind of see that shit pretty easily. Yeah. It's like, it's right there as well. The show is making sure to show like, no, she's keeping an eye. So she's doing it when he's not looking or something. She's like, I don't know, man. You still need a lot of luck for this and you can't cancel out the sound. So, well, and the final evidence, the fact that she's got the only honeycomb that's fucking burned. How did you burn it with your needle? It was like, ah, the mysteries of things. Everyone in chat saying you can smell it. There's cameras all over the place. And there's cameras. Yeah, that's the whole idea. So we've got like five layers of you're not getting away with this. And they do not look kindly on cheating as we discover. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mentioned it's like, you don't smell the burning either. Yeah. So that's not a satisfying cheat, that one. You just like, okay, good for you, I guess. They just sort of let you do that. Then as we, as we progress, like I said, I think the triangles start winning, which includes Andrew and Sangwoo and the doctor. I'm going to start calling him that just because that's what he is. He's the one that had the note. I think his note said honeycomb, which by the way, wouldn't be anywhere near enough information for someone like me. I'd be like, honeycomb. Yeah, the info, yeah. You think the info should be pick the triangle. Yeah. Yeah. That would be way better than honeycomb. Yeah, yeah. That'd be way better. That way you know that no matter what, pick the triangle, not honeycomb. Because if you, if White Glue was honeycomb and I was looking at shapes, I'd still be like, okay. And I don't get it. Yeah. Ali has successfully gotten his circle out of there as well. Yeah. And he looks panicky as fuck until the adults that says, play a one nine nine has passed. He just smiles like, yay. I think this would be a great feeling, but then you sort of turn around. You're like, good luck everyone else. Don't slip on your way out. Yeah. Do not perish. And I think that's kind of the idea is that all of the triangles are going to be getting out pretty quick, which, yeah, you can't help it feel like that doesn't seem fair. Now, lucky for us, we're not going to just get bogged down and bored by the A plot line. Detective man is here to make the plot more interesting. Yeah. He walks in here and a square scans him and he's like, what the fuck are you doing here? You're supposed to be dealing with bodies. And he's just like, um. He scans them from behind too, which is strange, but I guess that's more sci-fi tech. I guess the suits are lined up with the numbers as well, just not just a mask. Yeah, I could say that, I guess. And so he's like, what are you doing here? And he's like, I'm confused. Like I was like, oh my fucking god, I hate this. Like it's so crap. I don't know what's happening to you. What are we doing here? And yeah, so this square is like, meet me after this game and we'll talk about your confusion. It's like, oh shit, finally repercussions. No, that's gonna have a great payoff. Yeah, I will keep that in mind, everyone. Finally repercussions. So we see the, I guess, probably the triangles and circles exiting, they've done their job. But at the back is the doctor and he pops off to the left and he gets guided into a completely different room. And I think that alone is like, really? How the fuck are you getting away with that? Yeah, you've taken a whole ass player out of fucking competition. Man, you must have a lot of people in this institution that are on your side rather than the institution side. Yeah. But okay. I guess they don't count them when they get back into the room. I feel like they did a better job with this later on because it's all dark and everyone's already settled everywhere, I guess. I can believe that more than. But doing it at that point. Yeah, but there's still cameras everywhere. But this point is insane. And just the idea they wouldn't have a constant player count. Imagine the doctor just pops up a triangle. Surely they'd have a constant player count in the room. They'd be like, they should be ex-players. It is incongruent with the current players, you know? Yeah, the guy whose job it is to look at player da-da-da-da-da should be going, wait a second. Well, I guess, so this is the thing that the show has on its side is you're supposed to just believe anybody who would have caught this is a part of the evil team or at least the subversion team. And they're doing what they need to do to prevent anyone from finding out. But I just think that stretch is pretty far the further along we get. And even right now, I think that him moving away at that moment, that's already... They're all on the Oscorp payroll. Yeah. So we've got three minutes left. It ain't going good. He's basically chopped out the top of the umbrella, the easiest part. There's plenty left to go. And before Song Wu leaves, he gives him quite the... Man, sucks to be you, face. And so it's probably worth wondering at this point. We'll probably address it. Why did Song Wu do that? What is the assumption we're supposed to make as an audience? In terms of the look he gives him? No, why did he not tell him you should go for the triangle? I guess to... Let me see. He probably feels a little threatened. You feel me at this point? Or no. No, like he probably feels a little threatened by Guihon's... The closeness he has to Guihon. The old man. If he's... No, not the old man. His friend. So it's like he's got his friend in the competition and if he can get rid of his friend, the less compelled he is to try and kill him and feel bad about it. You know what I mean? It's like he's afraid that he's got to pull back on his friend in some emotional sense. So it's like if he dies now, me that has to kill him. And I don't got to feel bad about it. So we've got a lot of theories in here and in chat. My take would just fully be that he's just going to not work to help anyone now. Unless of course it demands it through teams. But at the same time, I think it's very fair to assume he was hoping to kill the old man. I would assume so too, based especially with that look he had earlier when the old man was made part of a team essentially. I was just like, oh, he's going to be... antagonist for now, at least. I would have assumed Slugboy is definitely the more of an antagonist right now. Yeah, yeah. Because he's just a bad guy from the beginning. Should have phrased it differently. I mean, he's going to be the shady one who's going to be doing... The questionable sort of motivated. Sketchy, sketchy shit. And just being calculated, getting rid of as many people as possible. Also, a lot of people are trying to speculate possibilities and whether or not this is inconsistent with his goals. Like, why would you want to erase the people who are likely going to help you? But the thing is, I think Sungwoo has already resigned himself to the point of, I will win this. And this is the way... He asked part of the team. God. Well, I was just going to say, compare him to the first game to now. He's changed quite dramatically in terms of his approach. He's very much quieter. Specifically, all of his dialogue relates to winning, basically. All we have to believe is that he believes that the less people who survive, the better for his situation. But at the same time, I think he was gunning for the old man. I think that's the idea here. Someone said the old man is called Jiro Dreams of Sushi. And what's interesting about that is that I think that the thug's name is Jiro Nightmares of Ass Rape. What? All right. If you get that reference... I definitely don't get that reference. You get 10. Although it was an ass rape and I don't want to get that reference, to be honest. If you get that reference, you get 10 pooch points. If you laugh at it without knowing the reference, you get five pooch points. No, they should get negative pooch points at that point because they're lying to you. They're lying. That's not true. That's not true at all. No, I laughed at the pure absurdity of it. Yeah. See, Lies. Okay. So, Kev, what were you gonna say? Oh, yeah, I wonder... I can get him trying to get rid of the old man, especially if he sees him as a weak link for the team. I wonder why he doesn't say something to our protagonist because you would think that Alliance might... In the sense of... So any recommendation he gives, he'd have to be able to couch it in some other reasoning than the true reasoning because at that point he gives away, he knows the game and he should have been telling them. Yeah. Because maybe he's more analytical and not so creative. I don't know how to say that. Yeah, I do. Yeah. Yeah. I think he thinks that we'll go... He probably thought the triangles will pass, the stars will likely pass, the circles will probably pass, the umbrellas are fucked. If I can make it, or get it at least, to the point where the old man gets the umbrella, we can knock him out and I don't have to be a dick. It's very possible. But that's the thing, I like this a lot because we get to speculate quite a bit because none of it's explicit. It's interesting. To the person in chat asking if I could say that again in Spanish, unfortunately not. The only Spanish I know is no niños en la canasta. That's the only Spanish I know, so... You're out of luck there, unfortunately. So anyway, our protag realizes, hey, the line that makes the shape is obviously thinner than the rest of it. So if we were to lick it and thus kind of melt all of it, the shape will come out before breaking or melting apart. That kind of makes sense, right? And so he goes ham, licking up a storm. He's going in there. The other people take notice and they start doing it. Yeah, and they play quite funny music. The old guy. Because this is so absurd fucking scenario that you have to lick to survive. Because of course the stars are all mostly making it out too. But Oldman had a star and it becomes clear that he probably would have died if not for the licking advice or, well, help, I guess. Because he doesn't overtly tell anyone to lick, he's just licking and everyone spots it. Yeah, and he's just, oh, those camera angles, just getting all that sweaty licking. Beautiful. Oh yeah, I love that licking, honeycombs. And it's, yeah, because a couple of the people you see licking are all thugs from thugs team that come into play a little later. We saved them as well. Yeah, I like the idea that it just spreads. You see someone doing it and then you do it and then other people see you doing it and it just spreads in a real way. Because you're like, oh, that's a good idea. I'm doing that. Because I imagine there'd be a lot of copy in the situation like this. You're always looking around like, what are other people doing? What are other people doing? People who win. You're like, how did you do it before you leave? Tell me how. I licked it, motherfucker. So yeah, Oldman makes it. And right at the last second, Jehan pulls the umbrella out and it functions. I think, man, he makes it in the nick of time. Yeah, that's twice he's made it on the line. Yeah, quite a bit of that. That's kind of his thing. He intact. I think in every single game that happens to him. Not minutes to the second waste. Well, I don't know how Tug of War would count, would it? Well, I guess Tug of War would count. Well, yeah, he almost died. I guess he did almost. I thought we were talking about in terms of the timer. There's no timer on that one. It's just a matter of. There's no timer, but he keeps coming out of the skin of his teeth one way or the other in these games. Last second or almost died. Now, we have yet another part that I am not a fan of because I love that whole bit. Yeah, it's all great. Fucking really weird thing happens. By the way, part of this isn't weird. Someone realizes they've broken their umbrella and they're hiding it. And so the guy's like, show me because obviously, as soon as you show it, you're dead. So what does he do? Fuck it. I'm going to tackle you and take your gun, which is something I thought was. I figured that was a possibility for a long time. And I was glad that I saw it sort of run out. But I do wonder why they don't have a better system to prevent it. But something really weird happens and I'll get a freeze frame. Here we go. Can anyone spot the weirdness here? Freeze frame. Freeze frame. Oh, I mean, you need to that doesn't reach anywhere in this place. The guy when he goes to the lady's like, ah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is like, that's not even touching you, mate. That's not even on your skin. Yeah, it's not touching you. And yeah. They probably had it stick out longer just so the audience can see it better. Yeah. If they put it further in, maybe. It's not a long needle. What a strange and specific thing to pull off. If you know what I mean. That is, that would probably be, yeah. To get it in that little hole. But it seems like, hang on, I got to thread this through. Hang on, there we go. Hang on, no old skill. So, yeah, I laughed when I first watched this on my yoke. Because I was like, what? Like, you can see. What is happening? And then if you pay close attention. They have the revolvers and the MP5s. So, dang, I guess ones for killing and the other ones for killing. So, he grabs the pistol. And then, and I want to be very specific here, there are people in chat who know what I'm referencing. He grabs the nearest dude, okay? He doesn't grab someone for any other reason. Then they are the, look at that, nearest dude. That is why he grabs this person. I will not accept any of the lies. It just so happens to be, just so happens to be, the guy who is going to discipline the cop. Yeah, I'm going to bring that up in just a moment. So, he's got him. And he's like, I'm blows the head off. You guys are sick. I hate you all. Then something else that's kind of weird happens. And I can't remember who I was watching it with that brought this up. It was one of you fuckers. But they all turn around and gun down every other person. Now. I saw that too, yeah. I don't, like a lot of people bring up, it's like, did they check all of their things? Well, the timer went off, right? The logic. Yeah, but the timer went off with Jihan, you know. But they have to check to see if they finished in time. Yeah, you have to check to know that they failed. Yeah, yeah. Maybe they already got checked and they said, Hey, just stand over there. All right. Weird, right? That they would check. I don't think so yet. I feel like this is weird because we saw with Jihan that he's like, look, mine's done on the time. And then the guy's like, all right. And then we saw someone else who's like, I broke mine. And he pulls the gun, but then he gets taken. So everyone else, we have to assume that they were all checked. They failed. And then they're like, stand there, please. We will shoot you in a moment. Like that seems weird. I'll be here. I'll be standing there and running. Yeah. Well, wouldn't the logic be that, like, they would have seen their completed thing by then if they had finished? No. Right. Whoa. Not necessarily. So I'll say it again. And for those in chat who aren't following as well, we see the process for both failing and winning. Winning is they look at your shape and go, nice. We saw with Jihan the timer ends and they see his shape and go, nice. For failure, they see his shape broken. They go, wrong. Boom. So why with like 10 people did they go wrong? Stand there. We'll be back. That doesn't seem quite right. So my assumption is actually that's what I worry about. Is like, oh, shit, did they get their things checked? Because if they didn't, that's not very fair. That's not fair at all. That would be very unfair of them to do that. So I don't know. I don't know what happened there. I'm not sure. I think best faith analysis is no, no, no. They all failed. You're like, okay. All right. It's just a bit strange with how we sort of run out. All right. Strange is breach in procedure, but okay. Yeah, because I'm willing to believe they all fucked it up. I just don't know why it worked that way. Yeah. Or not even that they all fucked it up, but they all didn't finish or complete the task. Someone interested. No witnesses for the incident. I don't know. Again, doesn't seem very fair, right? Yeah. And also I'm just like, yeah, because it wasn't then we pulled the mask off. And also let's assume that they saw his face. What are they going to do? Yeah. And this is before the mask is pulled off, by the way, everybody. Also. Oh, yeah. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know that argument. But yeah. Next up, he says, lose the mask. Fuck. And the guy, which I found kind of interesting. He does just take it off and it's like, but if he knows that this will kill him, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, he's a square or something. Yeah. He's a higher level pink guy. So I thought that he would be like, you know, I know that they'll kill me if I do this. So just shoot me then. Because it's either I get shot or I get shot. So, but no, you just take it straight off. And there's the reveal here of he's pretty young. And I think the guy says, like, what did they do to you? Because yeah, that's an interesting thought, is that if the main, all their foot soldiers are actually just super young, and I guess maybe taken from a young age to be indoctrinated into this system, specifically that's how they can control them. I don't know. Yeah, they're all proficient with weapons, it seems. Extremely loyal. Yeah, I can't wait to get more backstory on this. Oh, yeah. And I think it's a nice touch. Why does he kill himself? Oh, because I think he just sees there's no, there's nothing he can do. Well, then why did he give up the hostage? I think part of the fact that he gives him up is because he recognizes that he's a kid and that this whole system is fucked and that there's all these people aiming their guns. I don't know. It actually seemed like, I'm not sure that I would have made a different decision to be honest with you. I don't know. It seemed like he had really strong self-preservation skills until that moment and I'm just confused by it. I assume it's because no one would do that, but. I assume it's because he just realized that he's going to die with the umbrella, so he lashes out and then after a few seconds he's like, there's no way I'm getting out of here. At least I get to go on my own teams, presumably. I can see how some people would do that. I certainly wouldn't, but that's, I guess that's him. I don't have an issue with it. Yeah, or just kind of randomly shoot at the triangle man just to take a few out before you go, I guess. You could try that. Yeah, well the one thought is that he, he has him as a hostage and they don't immediately shoot both of them, so clearly him having the hostage is working to a degree now, whether he could ever like fully escape is a whole nother thing, but I just don't know why he gives up. I thought there was a level of, he doesn't even like the fact he's doing this with what looks to be a teenager. Yeah, I suppose he does let him go before he knows that. Does he? I thought that he's like, don't make me shoot you, take your mask off. And when he sees as a kid, that's when he's like rethinks this. I guess, yeah. Maybe he realizes they're just all kids. Yeah, this is all fucked. Yeah, I suppose. Regardless, shoots himself and then our square there for revealing his face gets shot by the front man. Very unceremoniously. The one thing I did like about this, by the way, is when he shoots himself, the kid doesn't move an inch. Like he's so unfazed by it, because he just presumably seen a lot of death at this point, which is just, yeah. Well, I imagine it's all like, well, he's probably just numb like realize as well, I'm dead too, so. Yeah, that could be as well. Yeah, he's dead and he explains the, when they see your face, you're dead, they can't know you. A lot of people like that. There's comments to be made about all of that, I would say. Once they find out who you are, you die. Okay. So, I don't know how to just. So Detective Man, he's wandering about, he walks up to the corpse of the square and then it plays the sound. The seed, it replays him saying, we will, I will talk to you after the game. As if to tell the audience, you see he's safe now, because this is the one who said he wanted to speak to him. It's like, oh my God. Also, how would you determine that? I guess he, that was the only square in there and he knew that that was the one. It wasn't the only square in there. There was another one behind. I guess he had an eye on him the whole time. But why was he allowed to stay in that room if he wasn't supposed to be there? I guess because the guy said, see me after the game is done, I guess. Yeah, but why would he wait? I don't know. I do not fucking know. You know, I don't think this makes sense. Well, you know what else doesn't make sense, right? He picks up the square mask and just keeps it. How the fuck you want to do that? Promotion! You're on camera, dude. How the fuck could you possibly, yeah, he's hugely on camera, but second of all, that's, if that's as simple as it is, those things should be taken care of very much so. Like, oh, a square hat's just dropped down. Better grab it before someone else just pretends to be a fucking square. Yeah, you would think they know how many squares they have and that one of them was just killed and that if they just see another square out and about, it would raise some questions. I would say it should do that to the least. Yeah. I was very disappointed with that payoff what I saw that episode, because I really loved everything over the game, but, yeah. Want in the world, because he picks up the square and I think the show's vibe is like, hey, isn't that cool? He's used his ingenuity to rise through the right. No, no. We did. He was the luckiest. Arguably, he has made his job even harder, because now he has to be the one giving instructions instead of just being told what to do and doing it. You say that, Rags, but a lot of other people will be like, oh, it's smart, because he can just walk through and no one will question him because he's a square. He can just do whatever he wants. Oh, those people are wrong. Very wrong. All of the circles will be like, sir, hello, what are you, like, you're our manager here. Yeah, what should I be doing? Yeah, tell us what to do. You have to organize us. You have to do all these things. Whereas if you're some peon, whatever, you could just do like, oh, just do the thing. Gotcha, I'll do it. I'll just do my simple menial task and that'll be nice and easy for me. And you've got, as people point out, it's like you have an extra square now. What the fuck? Yeah. How do you not take account for this? You guys have to be. You've lost one shape and gained another. How did this happen? Where didn't die after all? Yay. Man, we should shoot more of our people who just get free labor. Well, now he's just got to shoot the front man and take his mask. Like, that'd be funny if he was still wearing the pink jacket, but he had the front man's mask on. They still just treated him like the front man because of the mask. I changed my clothing. I prefer the pink. Uh, so Dr. Bro is moving through. We get this, this, you could call this explanation. I don't know about that. We see someone see them on the cameras and then he presses some buttons and they are now on a loop of some kind where you can't tell that's what's happening. And I'm assuming he scrubbed the record of them. But this, you don't really throw. Yeah, I hate it too. It's too, it's just too, too like, there's no way you get away with this. They have like arcade controls. He basically just pressed B twice and it deleted the footage and replaced it with a loop. And it's like, give them computers at least. No, well, every button is really multiple buttons. You have the press, a double press. You have a press hold to really take what you see multiply by three. Mark Brown told us all about this. What I really don't like is this shot because it's him being like, I hope no one in this room notices. Come on. You're telling me no one else when nothing is fucking happening. He programmed this. Oh yeah, there's another thought about this because, okay, so we will find out. I don't want to get too ahead of ourselves, but we will find out that there are people The last of our worries right now. There are people watching that aren't here. And for any of them not to see what just happened, this can't be all live broadcast. So this has to be broadcast out later. So how does that work? How does no one see the disappearing people? Well, yeah, there's someone out there who will have been like, I like this doctor guy. He seems, wait, why does he keep disappearing every time the games? What's that about? Yeah. So many holes. Anyway, back to the good story. Jihan is going back and he's thinking and they replay the scene of Song Wu not giving him the information that he could have and he's definitely not happy about it, but his thought is cut off by the old man being like, hey dude, you saved my life with the licking thing. And then he's like, no, it's just a nice little juxtaposition and we can just sit here happy as audience members like, yay, old man. Yay, licking. I mean what? I'm pro licking. I think that's true. Pro licking. I'm very fucking pro licking. You have no fucking clue. All right. All right. Ali is like, yay, our team. And Song Wu is like, yes, yes, yes, good, yes. You both live, you piece of shit. Super awkward, but understandable. Yeah, and I just think it's cool that Ali is just so happy to see them. It's like, oh. Nice little team we got here. What are we, some site? Yeah, fuck it. Some kind of squid squad. Some kind of squid squad. I like it. Squid squad. Some kind of squid squad. Song Wu suggests that he was wrong for doing the separating. And Jihan gets a choice here and he goes with, ah, it's fine. You couldn't have known. Choosing the umbrella is my call. And then this is just the beginning of Song Wu constantly looking guilty as fuck. Just like throughout the whole season. Yeah. Yeah. So we got winnings to go through. Good stuff, lads. A lot of people got killed. Excellent. High fives all around. Good times. And it's pretty much just like we're in a flow now because everyone sees the cash poor again. Lots of people smiling. Lots of, like, I think Thugman puts his arm around the girl like, ah, yeah. And it's just like, man, I guess we've given up on the horrors of this. We just go with it now. It's like, buddy, buddy, buddy. And then we get the dreaded moment of egg and water. And it's like, hmm, oh, soda. And he's like, bullshit, I want more. And then lady is like, hey, if we line up twice, we can get food again. And this is going to cause issues because apparently they only provide enough to give one of each to every person. But there's no rules on how many times you can queue up. So that means someone's going to go hangy, which causes problems. Now, we want to introduce the idea that you are actually allowed to kill people when prior it was implied you couldn't. If you remember someone muscles around with someone else and they put a gun to his head and he's like, oh, shit. And it's just implied don't attack people is kind of this implication. So we need a way to signal to the players that that's a possibility now. So these guys taking some food leads to someone going hungry, leads to them complaining and then knocking the drink out of Thugman's hands until they have a bit of a tussle. And he kicks him because he punches him in the face first, but he's still alive after that. He kicks him in the chest several times and that kills him. Yeah, you're surprised he was killed by that. But I'm like, yeah, it's not impossible. It's just not impossible. I think you should have solved that a bit more. I think you had the broken bottle right there to stab him with. If we had Thugman punch him in the face like fucking six or seven times in a row, I'd be much more okay with it. But he looks like he's just kicking him in the belly and he's going off off. And then it's like he's dead. And I remember when I first watched, he's been like, really? Damn. Yeah. Yeah, he's gone. And then you realize it's actually very important in the narrative that this happens because they don't chastise anybody. They simply take the body away and drop money into them in the bank, which means there is an alternative. You can kill each other. Yeah, which I think they could have done that better. It's just very clearly setting that up, which, by the way, that's hugely important going forward, obviously. Don't worry, guys. If you just follow the rules, you can make it to the end. It's very easy. Well, so, yeah, I guess that'll be another seed for talking ultimately about how the rules work and what fairness means in this world. But we'll have to get a little further before we talk about that probably. Yep. So, yeah, that guy's out and he's like this Thugman, he's a bastard. He killed them. Boo. But then it's just become clear that that's fine, actually. And so now everyone already starts talking about all this. Tonight's going to be bad, because if you can kill people, the Thugman team is probably going to try and white people out. But before we talk about that, I'm willing to give up the pretense now. There are two plot lines in this show. One of them is really entertaining and interesting. The other one is ass. The other one is ass. And it didn't have to be ass. It's not ass and concept, right? Yeah, even if it ended the way it did, it didn't have to be this ass. It didn't have to be this ass. It could have been really interesting. That could have been our way of how do we as the audience learn about this organization? It's through the detective who's infiltrated this place and he's doing the best he can. Also, we have our other cast of characters who are in the game. I thought originally that was kind of what they were going for, which sort of is the case. But again, the execution, it is ass. It is ass. Not ass. Ass. Regular good old-fashioned ass. I know ass. And this is no good ass. This is bad ass, but in a bad way. This is bad, bad ass. Yeah, really disappointed with the detective. That's good because I'm glad we don't have to push too hard on the detective stuff. Seems a lot of people are already on board with it, but we will explain all of it. Don't worry. Go ahead. I was just kind of ignoring everything that happened with him, like all the inconsistencies. I mean, like I was like, oh man, I wonder where this is going to end up. I was the same on my first watch through. And where it ends up is why I take so much issue with all of it. Yeah, now that we go back, knowing what happened, I was like, man, what a face. Such a shame. Yeah, so we're seeing everyone deal with the good old um, coffins off to the side is a circle who just looped off his mask and he's popping on the square one. And like, how, how are you allowed to do that? How is the system? How? And I think we're supposed to believe, and this is something I've gone for people who like this show, that he's pocketing the circle one and he puts that back on when he needs to go to sleep and stuff. So he just pops on the square one whenever he needs to be authoritative, but nobody notices a thing, even though they have specific amounts of squares and circles in any place at any time. Seems like something you just wouldn't be able to get away with. And it seems like something that not only you couldn't get away with, it's not something that you'd want to try and get away with. No, you might even say it's pretty fucking stupid. Now you have to know this place. Absolutely. The smart decision. Keep your fucking head down, and okay, just do what you're told. Nice and easy. Don't rock the boat instead of, yep, I'm gonna be giving the orders. You betcha. Smart decision, I hope I know all of them now. Holy shit. How lucky am I as a detective that the one person that fucking found me out died? I should take this as a chance to just be a normal circle. Instead he's like, ah, but take his mask. You're like, ugh. What a smart move, Detective Man. Anyway, someone's like, hey, you. I think the show thinks it's so clever because he's like, why aren't you doing your job? And he turns around. He's like, you have to have permission to speak to your superiors. Like it's the thing that they say to him when he first did that. And he's like, oh, look at that. He's lending. Like, yeah, okay. I guess you can say that. How we got to this point is the issue. Very much so. The most thing he's done. I don't believe this character is smart enough to do that. I like the idea that the triangle is like, wow, there's not supposed to be any fucking squares here. But okay, hello, sir. Yeah. I also find it strange that the whole operation functions smoothly and effortlessly when the circles can't tell the squares anything. You know, I guess it can't be before. You have to wait for the map permission to speak, yeah. I guess. Yeah, it's an odd choice. Especially if a triangle sees a square being really suspicious. And like he wants to go tell another square and just stands in front of him for permission to speak. Maybe they're allowed to say, sir. I don't know. Maybe. Who knows. But yeah, you're able to infer it before they're explicit about it. But Dr. Men is chopping up bodies and getting organs out of them. You know, like what? And the where all does that? Disgustan. That's not kind. Yeah, we'll come back to that in a moment. But yeah, all the groups are speculating on like, so we're all going to die. This sucks. We got to group up and fight. And yeah, I think someone was just like, everyone's got to team up, be strong while Oldman is like falling asleep in the background. And so it's like, you know, please help. Jihan offers Andrew a chance to join. And she's like, fuck it. I don't trust anybody here. And then he says, I think he says you don't trust people here. You trust people here because you have to or something like that. Just meaning that if you don't work with someone, you're done so in this place. That's actually probably important for a conversation about theme. I've read an interview or two where the writer-director has talked about that idea specifically that you don't trust people because they're trustworthy. You trust them because you have no better choice. Yeah, which is basically what he says. An interesting thought. Got to trust somebody. Sorry, wait, is like, yeah, I was about to say, he's like, I'm sorry, he feels that way. Well, no, he's talking about in that squid game specifically. I don't know. Oh, yeah, that in that case. All right. Okay. Because well, the director definitely feels that way. You can tell from interviews. The director is very cynical. We can talk about, you know, authorial intent. I was going to say, if he really feels like that about life, that sucks to met plenty of people that are really trustworthy. I'm legit. He needs to find more cool people. Like Santa Claus. Like Santa Claus is really fair about the whole naughty nice thing. You can trust that. Pretty good rules. But yeah, they scan and number 29 or 28, sorry, is in the organ room. And it's like, oh wait, if you guys remember, number 28 was the one that was looking at 29 funny. And then they're like, where's 29? It's like 29 is not showing up. And so I almost want to talk about this when it gets to be a little bit more content. But we'll put a big pin in that. I understand. Yeah. Put an enormous pin in that. The pin is huge. It's a little water that seed. That seed is we're almost fully grown. We are almost to the point where we'll have to talk about this. Yeah, we're just like fruit on that mine. Oh, yes. Well, yeah, just keep that in mind. They pass the doctor an egg. And that's got the clue in it. He's got a little note for the next game. However, they like, just make sure you focus on surviving tonight. And he's like, well, what do you mean? He's like, tonight they're going to weed out the weaklings, which I have questions about that. Might want to hang on to that statement until we talk later about other stuff. Yeah. Okay. And they follow up with saying, it's all a part of the game. It's like, um, this seems like it's doesn't seem like it's probably okay. All right. All right. Present. Okay. And they say, stick with the strongest. That's the only way you'll live. And to me, that's a little bit more overt in terms of maybe a point they want to be trying to make in general. But it's fine. We'll, we'll, we'll let that happen for a moment. We'll come back to it. Gets his note and he gets to join the thug team by giving them that he has the information on the next game, which makes complete sense. Meanwhile, God is so frustrated. Squareman is just walking around seemingly awkwardly away from where other people are going. He doesn't know what the fuck's going on. He's just walking. Which is the same in swimming downstream. Even as a, as a square, like they all have assigned roles they have to do. Yeah. And apparently, because it seems like they're like a strict schedule of everything to get this all done. And then he's just running around and no one bats an eye. What's this look right here? Where he's like, what's going on? Oh, there's a space for me. Okay, I'll go here. It's like, come on. I guess I'll guess this was made just for me. Guess I'll check it out. I guess my designated location is right over there. Apparently his body language, his voice, his lack of any weaponry. Like none of this is a problem. You can just walk the fuck around and do whatever he wants. This is like, God, this is so lame, but fine, I guess. Someone in the chat pointed out how exactly did they get a note inside of a hard boiled egg with a shell on it? Injected it. You can inject notes. I don't know. Maybe they... How did I not think of that? There's that and also the fact that they didn't just tell him. You're absolutely right. I've never understood this whole, we give you these weird, because the clue I assume reads tug of war, right? But you could just be like... Tug of war. Why doesn't the note just say you will have to form a team and play tug of war to win? I understand they've got limited space, but we're literally... It's less evidence and more detailed to just say it to him instead of putting tug of war on a note in an egg. What the fuck? Yeah. How do you get a note in an egg? What the fuck? Exactly. If we want to understand, by the fourth game, I believe they just don't tell him and like that's what causes the big problem. So yeah, we'll get there. So that would be why they're done. At least that's why they're not being told straight up by the third game. Now, we get a scene... So there it... We gotta slow it because we'll get to these things, okay? The seeds we have planted are already coming to fruition. We get in there. Because we're almost halfway through now. How scary is that? Only four and a half hours. Oh man. I'm very upset this way. Because I'm really upset we're not doing this on a Saturday now. I've caught the flume, Sam and I. I'm the flume this time around where discord... fucks with it. What do you mean? With the audio coming through. Oh okay, it's just usually in every call there's one flume who doesn't... I haven't noticed anybody yet. I'm with somebody else. I haven't noticed anybody this time. Well, yeah. But anyway, it's probably worth saying that... You might be by the way. I haven't noticed it yet. Oh, everybody in chat. Some people are saying that it's drowning it out. I will keep an ear out for it. What I will say though is very unlikely we're going to be able to do super chats today when we're not even through episode four. Well, yeah. What I was going to say is we're not through episode four yet and plus we're holding off a lot Yeah, lots of discussions. A lot of discussions, yeah. So next we get a scene that I thought was pretty neat. The not necessarily for the wider contacts just for the way the lighting works and just trying to follow the action but then all the things that the individuals do in this scene. Okay, right before we get to that so they decide to start building barricades around their little corners. I don't think they've done that in this. No, that's after that's after fighting. You're right. You're right. I jumped the gun. Everybody at this point is fearful. Something may happen and they're right. People start dying and screaming and stuff. I think they said if anything should happen we should meet up because I don't think everyone's convinced that they'll just be murders but there are specifically Thugman just digging his glass bottle into people. So the flashing lights are happening. It's confusing what's happening with everybody and Thugman immediately goes after good old Andrew. What he doesn't expect is that she's got the knife and so that gives her let's say a fighting chance and I think that's where you would say that's why it was important that she has that knife not just for the vent and the clue but also the fact that she may have died without it. So it's significant as a consequence for her to be able to have it which I don't think they very well justified but that's all right. She's kind of escaping. I think Jihan is noticing it all fall apart and then his like set of beds is pushed down and we get into I don't know that I would claim there's some longer shots in this that are pretty cool despite the fact that it's hard to quite make out everything that's happening because of the flashing but lots of people getting torn to shreds. Terrifying stuff. But there's this moment of like back and forth thing where I think someone goes to hit Jihan and as that's happening and they're pretty successful Ali grabs their weapon and then Sangwoo hits that person when they've lost their weapon and he gets hit away Ali follows up like there's a lot of team work in this bit that's pretty cool. Yeah our lads looking after themselves and yeah the three of them are like we got to find Oldman and Oldman's disappeared don't know what's going on with that. And I think the next significant event is that Andrew walks up to the other that's like yo I would like to join the team now. This is not this is going as great I think she said something like you said to meet here right and Jihan actually pushes her out of the way of Thugman another big big old fight breaks out with lots of people sort of following up for other people until Ali grabs like a big pole and like swigs it back and forth just to separate out a line. It's kind of neat in terms of just like again strength boy. Yeah and yeah I think Thugman is just like just give her up let us kill her we're just thinning the hood and then Jihan is like bro she's on our team and a nice little shot of her realizing that which is big for her because she doesn't trust anybody but she's clearly seen these lads despite barely knowing her actually defending her with their lives so it's gotta be worth something. And I think that's when Oldman gives a speech about please stop fucking killing each other this is horrible we're all gonna die please don't and uh first run through you see frontman notice in that and then he's like okay stop which I think second run through is kind of there's an extra angle there yeah and yeah the lads walk in and the square is like leading them it feels so weird because you know that he has no idea what the fuck he's doing it's just like yeah yeah charge I guess surely he's expected to give orders but he doesn't yeah lucky yeah lucky that this is one of those times where the square doesn't have to fucking say anything at all but this is the one time possibly the one time I can't think of any others where the plots cross over and he simply walks up to Jihan and says hey do you know where this person is by name and then Jihan's like they don't do names here that's it yeah super interesting which is why I can believe this was tacked on by the way yeah just just no consequences but Thugman loses the knife that he took off and drew and I think I don't know if they get a lighter or does she still have that I can't remember well the Thugman gave it back to her as they were walking back from the game so she I don't remember if they do have a smoke they do have a smoke after they have their sexy time so I guess they still have it at this point oh yeah oh you're right you're right I wonder if that was always a backup plan burn the rope to separate the rope that probably would work because they were just I don't know they could fuck up a lot of ways anyway so that happens a lot of people were killed I don't know the exact number um yeah our team is uh I'm pretty sure if there were like a hundred basically like a hundred people left and then it was 80 off to it yeah it was a hundred yeah seven before and then it ended with 80 I guess that's convenient that it's a nice round even number for the next game well well I'm sure that they have plans if you know because half the time this these shenanigans happen it will be an odd number left so they I'm I'm totally fine with the idea that they have plans in case there's not a yeah proper number of people some form of a contingent here yeah um then our team maybe or they just there are reasons or the odd person out just gets to pass well we saw yeah we saw what happens when there's an odd person in Venice yeah that's one of the reasons we'll come back to it um so they're all like yay we survived don't let's share names with each other and um say bioc like I said it is a name that's probably not pronouncing it properly but that's the best I can do damn it uh we're trying fine yeah me alone and um they're all like old man what's your name and spends a decent amount of time trying to remember it but can't and Jihann sort of laughs it off it's like ha I don't even remember where I live sometimes it's chill yeah sometimes I'm stressed out yeah yeah that's a nice thing for him to say he's fucking really good to the old dude this uh yeah you know what they're up to writing stuff like that um but yeah I I think of that point as a viewer you're like oh boy I hope this the brain thing doesn't play into one of the games at some point because that's gonna be tragic as hell I think Mal you literally said that we'll be watching it actually sorry I said it again what did I say that uh you're worried as Alzheimer's is gonna fuck with one of the games it's like yeah yeah yeah maybe well maybe not um so what did chat said this goes nowhere I'm not sure what there's nowhere I'm not sure what they're referring to um anyway the money is is pushed in and um then Oldman and Crazy Lady have the big sacks and I would argue is specifically because she would have realized from episode two three that um that's something he wants and so it's probably good for survival strategy because as soon as they're doing it she's like yo we're gonna last together right me and you and he's like sure so um with with given that a shot I suppose and back to detective man oh yeah that's right he's having himself a little sleep and he's updating his notepad as you do he's got shapes rank mask leader gun massacre riot abetting murder my brother like what the hell these notes are shite he needs a he needs a reminder that that's what he's looking for my brother oh man and these are notes of shit he's seen it's like you haven't seen your brother shut the fuck up but like why not write notes that makes sense to someone who finds them in case you don't make it I don't know so here's the coughing again and he figures hey that could be Morse code and um he has a look at it and it reads out number 29 so the guy coughing is trying to get number 29's attention like okay wonder where that goes I know you all you go guys don't know no I'm curious I'm just as curious as you are really yeah it's about time I think that we prep for this next game yeah 29 and 28 giving themselves looks at each other he's put away his square this time he's putting on the circle like we keep it on I guess I don't know we'll we'll catch up with more on that in future but here comes the shocking anti-feminist moment in this show where the way he says collect men for our team we don't want women or old people oof because um it's like yeah uh song was pretty straightforward he just says look whatever this thing's gonna be it's more than likely better to be a strong guy young to middle age that's just what we want to do it everyone in our current team of which he's not happy about by the way having a man and an old man and a lady he's like everyone go grab a guy I think after oh yeah so they're all they're all sent out to grab the unable bodied person and it's just interesting to see the results but um one of the things he says to Ali before going to do it is hide the fact that you've lost two fingers because it'll make you look weak which is uh a little harsh but potentially true so maybe it's worth it well hey it's good advice if you want them to you know you don't want to look weak so people will join our team yeah I think it's the idea with with song woo it's just like that's a little bit insensitive but it may lead to our victory so it's like it's like the place for sensitivity necessarily not quite no and so I think Ali finds someone relatively quickly and I think it's because do they share religion is that the connective piece that he gets him on I think I'm not sure because uh obviously I think you're right yeah um old man's having no luck at all just like nobody's gonna talk to him about anything obviously which sucks and song woo is like hey dude you can join us and the dude's like yeah if you can bring my wife at he's just like we have too many Whibbid by like oh yeah it's like oof and the fact the fact he says we have too many girls where they have one like he's uh definitely making sure he gets this shit done um you know it's funny to rewatch but uh you guys rubber the religion man the yeah yeah later episodes that's the one I forget yeah that's uh Jihan brings him in on this the rope thing um and yeah and there's a girl who's just chilling out on her own no one's chatting with her and uh Andrew brings her in and so that's essentially our results knowing there that we've got four dudes but we're missing or I say four dudes four people who have been brought in uh but we haven't the old man wouldn't have brought anybody in so like how's it gonna work meanwhile everyone has sought themselves into teams with crazy lady being booted out by thug team because they would rather have nine 10 guys than nine guys and a girl which means who ends up with her I mean it seemed it was kind of nicely done for me because they they were they were all discussing the fact that they died that she just walks into frame like hey it's like oh and um yeah I think song was like I told you to get dudes and um the bonus girl is like I guess I'll leave then and then Jihan's like no no no no stay and it's just representative of the very much dichotomous perspectives right now because you don't want to be that guy but at the same time you're like dude we could die I'm just saying yeah sucks but okay yeah let's just be nice yeah uh and so yeah they get a third girl because they really got no choice and then you find out the game as we've kind of measured already is tug of war which is like oh oh um very cool environment um but this would be an example where you have to have losers the other games you didn't so far yes yeah technically yes this kind of dramatically shifts it in that respect and I think I think uh especially it should shift the idea in people's heads about like what what chance they have of making it to the end if they just follow the rules you know what I mean yeah uh because it's like we're getting into zero some game territory plus so that's uh that will come up actually I think in the next episode so we can talk about it but uh yeah this is a moment of everyone's looking at their teams Thugman's team is just all dudes and then our team is like strong dude strong dude girl girl old man girl is like uh hmm pretty fragile um and so of course in the way they should probably do it we get to see an example game first uh I think it's Thugman team versus just a set of 10 people I don't think we really recognize um this is a pretty high stakes game of tug-of-war I'm assuming you guys will play tug-of-war IRL at some point maybe I have played tug-of-war at some point absolutely um yeah so I said this I can't refuse to freeing or all of you but um this was an incredibly satisfying episode for me because I learned in good old PE strategies for tug-of-war that go well beyond strength I hope these come up because that's going to be the way that they escape this because they're not winning on strength and that's going to be the point I think and um obviously yeah so we first get an example of the team they just get dragged off they have like a gear team sort of thing that chops the the rope and I did wonder at one point like imagine it didn't quite cut it that would be fucking terrible it'd be like holy fuck you guys got a bit of hold on um until we get it reset but yeah I guess they're chained to it they don't have to hold on oh no not those ones the the ones that are pulling on the other side oh yeah the other ones yeah yeah yeah mm-hmm um be stressful but yeah it always chops it so yeah it's fine but um yeah we get our team versus team of dudes um also in the meantime we spot a circle sort of smearing a cross of blood on one of the covens now that we see it later and it's dried really well when you put a dab of blood on a glove and write a cross with it that shit is just probably gonna dry clear when it's that thin on a black box um absolutely yeah but whatever it's fine you know it's a part of the detective plot line so we'll just ignore it for now okay so yeah our teams go up and they're all like shitting on the old dude for being like he's gonna be the reason we lose and then he's like let me tell you the things I know about tug of war and he basically lays out everything I knew about tug of war so I was very satisfied by this meaning yeah and I didn't know this so it was nifty for me to listen to yeah yeah and it all made sense when a listener is like oh yeah yeah I can see that being a thing yeah you uh then he was like yeah that is a thing I was like ah nice so those listening you got you put your strongest guy at the back he's like an anchor then you put um I think he's like progressively stronger as you progress so like then weakest and you put you go to the strongest by the time you hit the end again you need people alternating each side which I think if you look at some of the ways people set up in this they have like seven on one side and then three on the other so it's very much like they're not really thinking about it while our team does it like uh every other one is on each side then there's a when you start you don't uh pull per se or you don't like try to tug it forward to your end you just you just hold your position um yeah you squeeze it under your arms and then pull back and then like stay there and anchor your legs so the and he specifically says because this shit is going to make the enemy confused for frustrated and then they will slip up like inevitably because they're going to be like the fuck and then it's all delivered quite I quite like the way they do all of this like we see all of it unfolding as he's explaining the rules and by the time he reaches the first sort of idea of how this would work we start to already see it tugging so it's just all it's all really lined up really well paced while I guess I should say um and yeah one of them slips and so Jihan lets them all know and they start tugging they're doing real well until we get a problem which is that they recover and this team's raw strength is just not pulling them through and they're starting to lose our team and there's only one thing else I knew about tug of war which is like a a risky tactic but that you walk forward to make the other side fall and then you pull back and I was hoping they'd do it and they did and that's um that's the climax for the episode we see them walk forward and then it cuts what I gotta wonder is the person at the front of the line of the rope like how did he not die from like falling on all of the bodies of his friends you'd think that like the guy in front of the line who's about to die all of everybody else hits the floor but he's got to land on all the bodies right do you mean the one the back would theoretically fall on all the bodies no the guy in the right it would be the front because they're dangling right the guy in the back is hitting the ground first so imagine it's like the guy at the front of the line he's the last to hit the body he'd probably like laying on the bodies and he'd be fine he's not dead if he'd be fine if he's playing yeah but he couldn't survive I would say well if you remember us there's a guy who does survive right and they they take him in for the doctor they just kind of cram him in the box anyway yeah yeah and we've seen that before in episode one even if you're not dead they'll just incinerate you anyway oof yeah so it's a fun life um but yeah uh particularly tension fall which is quite the thing to celebrate for this show considering um where like they would never kill all of the main characters but at the same time you worry for him early sighted oh yeah once again Gihan almost dies oh no he do indeed he get pulled right right off um and yeah and I think this was noticed by several people I've watched this show with but uh right when it's pretty much clear that they're gonna win um because of the progress they've made and that the other other team are gonna lose I think we get a shot of Gihan's face like understanding that is the case and he's not exactly happy no not happy that he's responsible for the deaths of the others pretty much yeah it's right there like once they've knocked them off balance they pull them off he looks genuinely concerned while song we was just like yeah kill them piss on their corpses oh my god yes uh it's pretty rough because in order to win you have to kill all of them and this is the first time that's been more explicitly true and yeah it takes a toll which is good because it should um yeah you can sort of breathe a breath of fresh actually like fuck our team did survive this even though the odds were against them but I feel like they really earned this writing wise yeah mm-hmm and uh just gives you appreciation for Oldman and uh song we because he's the one that mentions this three steps forward thing which gets them through um and we get I think in the elevator Godman is is praying and girl who we've known for very little is like fuck you praying for that was these two that got us through that not God and uh I think she even says like you've sent them to heaven or whatever those people does that make you like she asked a whole bunch of questions where it's just like I don't know he's just praying like just God's dumb you know God's dumb God's dumb God is dumb well so this is the thing I actually would have found it a little bit cringe if not for what we hear from her later uh exactly yeah because uh I have no fucking problem with people praying just leave him alone but at the same time she has very big issues with religion indeed she does and yeah I think most of the team is just like we go home this sucks this has been horrible meanwhile thugman team are all like smiling and laughing they're like yeah we did it we beat the fuck out of those just like God I fucking hate you guys but how a team like how a team like stubble in and thugman team is like what yeah what's up we go again how is Oldman alive how is Gil alive it's it's all they must have cheated that's what it is um yeah we don't actually see the third game happen not like we necessarily need to but hey nah yeah we're seeing more of whatever happened with that blood cross unfold over time I I don't know how to I guess we'll just try and do this as the scenes come up instead of um before we leave this uh room now might be a decent time to bring up the fact that illustrations of the games are on the walls the entire time well we were gonna bring that up at some point um this is the time I think everyone there is kind of verging on dumb for not having noticed because when when they come after tug of war everything's been rearranged yeah I know you mean um I'll do you one even better when I first saw that they were on the walls I thought that was really neat and then I thought about it for longer and I was like actually no someone should have noticed this yes not just now but literally from as early as the start exactly when you had a bed right up against the wall could have seen yeah if anybody was gonna notice it's gonna be song woo he's been paying attention the most somebody has to notice when you're in that room all day yeah I mean what you ain't got much else going on in your life for most of the day so that is such an amazingly bad design choice I think they wanted it to be a neat reveal but it just it just makes me think like oh man someone should have spotted that and some of the diagrams are very clearly the games they're playing yes and the tug of war one never brings it up yeah tug of war one's huge the giveaway just stick figures holding a rope because it's like that's tug of war there's not many much else to interpret there so the so the guy who is operating who um who is like tell me about the game tell me about the game do you think the guys and the master are like is should we tell them should we tell them so that's actually where it creates a more legitimate problem outside of the one we just mentioned I don't know that I believe that they well we're getting there we're very close to that now so we'll get this is actually the thing episode five might be my least favorite episode from I know a lot of people have different picks but I remember as being the one that was kind of shit before episode six and it's there's so much detective plot line in this one there's some good character stuff but oh we're gonna have to talk all about the organs now organs wagons I love me I love I'm pro organ I love organs is there anything else would you yeah that all right no no just I just wanted to publicly express my my like my preference towards I'm pro organ I I really like organs I might even say your pro organ kind of great no ha you're not proven damn all right let's you know I'm from pro organ yes I didn't catch the games on a wall until they were only three people left and that's the thing I think that's fair for us not to notice because we're not in the room yeah we're trying to pay attention to the story and characters we don't live in that room for days because I saw I know are they in the same room than before or are they in a different room I will say it creates a very very frustrating viewing experience when you notice right after the tug of war game and then wonder why none of our smart characters ever bring it up yeah that's fair yeah uh so where was I gonna go is what was I doing I don't even know uh they she's kind of crazy ladies like wow we work so great as a team and then Ali is pointing out you fucking suck you were like no let's not do the plan and he and he's like you were winding like me me me me like that if you guys listen to the dub for this it is cringeworthy you just want to die I don't know who dubs crazy ladies voice but I've seen so many clips of her and it's like oh god please have mercy I I don't think I've wanted a character to die so much in quite some time have you seen Train to Busan yes yes I have there's a guy in that that I assume everybody always wants to die over and over again oh for sure I find her more obnoxious anytime she appears on screen she might be more obnoxious but she's much less of a horrible piss oh yeah don't don't don't get me wrong it's just anytime she appears on screen I go yeah like Darth Vader is a horrible person but I wasn't like yeah I can't wait till this guy dies I'm like more of him more of him more of Vader yeah but Vader's cool he wears black she is no what we're trying to say is she is no Darth Vader I can see that argument I can see that she is not Darth Vader there's a lot there no Darth Vader on our villain tier list she is significantly below Darth Vader I guess I'll go I'll go to bat for a little bit I don't um I'm more interested in the fact I don't hate it though she's clearly um doing everything she can to survive as a person that doesn't have a lot to offer yeah absolutely I don't have an issue with her as a character in that regard I understand fine annoying no she's no Darth Vader poorly written I just can't stand her and I want her to die I think that was the idea pretty much she was yeah there's a good little moment here where they're talking about their plans now and the fucking the god dude is like we should find a weak team and go after them first and she says for a resident priest you sure are bloodthirsty and then he just says everyone's hands are bloody it's like the way to justify it I suppose but yeah everyone getting closer and closer just being cool with killing everyone else I assume that's relevant to the overall point being made so yeah I think they decide they commit to a barricading which makes some sense it's the best thing you can do in this environment I suppose especially in the long fucking room and uh look at that diagram on the wall they're I know I know that's interesting there's no way they wouldn't notice it's impossible specifically I like I'll agree with you like they should have noticed before but now there's literally a tug of war image come on hey guys uh what's this supposed to be um that's what I do like here is is Thugman's like lol I'm we're gonna come kill all of you and then he's like bro you're like teamed up with a whole bunch of people who want to win and you're the strong one don't you think you know and when I was watching this I was just like yeah I'd be worried if I were you also is the stream down oh oh no not like you're a little little hiccup but it's it's all good okay apparently we good all right that's good definitely it's good that we're good a good point being made by Jihan though it's like you should be more concerned and what I think is less said here but very true is that Thugman concludes probably shouldn't week out the weaker one uh weed out the weaker ones because isn't it better to have more red shirts for myself in a sense and I think that's what he concludes is like yes team we could go and kill all of them but then I don't want to split my team in half and start killing that I was like we'll just keep them around so that they can always be the ones that die I think that's the angle but yeah just complicated and and that's the thing that that makes me question why they deliberately the the organization deliberately starts a fight so they'll thin out the weakest like that's their reasoning but uh it doesn't seem like it's an incentive strategy that will definitely thin out the weakest especially if anyone has the idea to kill the stronger contestants and I wonder from an entertainment standpoint like the people watching this as a show in universe are they entertained by everyone killing each other at night or would they be like no no no I want the games someone that I want them yeah I like the games I like them participating in games yeah as there is a lot to talk about that yeah we're getting closer to knowing they don't seem they don't seem to care much for actual gamesmanship and sport but we'll get into that so um I think they're just talking about their shifts and they eventually commit meanwhile oh yeah I think fast forwarding we just have um Songwu and Ali are the first on on shift I think they shift food again good happy lads song food yeah I think they share some history with each other here this is definitely a series of character moments because this this whole episode we're not going to be getting another game I think that's how they try and pace it out I guarantee you it could actually have been that the original series had like game and then episode two getting them back in and then every other episode was a game and then Netflix were like it's gotta be longer than just the six seven episodes whatever that's possible didn't learn from we didn't learn from Chernobyl and it's five episodes yeah yeah midnight mass was seven you know that was great no it was six episodes and a mistake six and some weird thing that happened we don't know we don't talk about it uh so uh yeah like this sequence is I think them explaining to each other their motives because Ali is like need money family flumes um which is interesting to think about in terms of other characters learning about what other people have at stake Evesi says in Pakistan like all of his family are gonna be reliant on uh him being able to make some money uh meanwhile some other people here may not have situations like that and it's something to think about um even Sangwoo's having trouble listening to him say like he's got a one-year-old he's looking out for because Sangwoo's biggest investment I would say is gonna be his mother in case the loan sharks come for here but um ultimately a lot of what he's doing this for is to pay off his own debts because it's something to think about right it's like is it is it more complex is it more important that you survive or the person that's got many people looking after the sort of reliant on them I don't know I imagine that's part of what the point they were making but anyway Mr. 28 guides Mr. 29 into the secret organ place so at this point I think it's we need to explain what the fuck's happening here within the situation within this this company this institution this this underground black market crazy squid game we have a group of workers who are secretly running an organ harvesting operation they have access to many portions of the building they have people on cameras to be able to cover for them they run they're just they're running this operations that already for me was a little bit hard to swallow I know a lot of people I think Gary was like I think this is cool that that's kind of running there and he thinks that that's something that would likely come out of it with all the people that get you know cycled through I just don't know that the security would have ever allowed for this to ever happen yeah especially they I don't know why you would the security is expensive now this is the problem like can I please what I was trying to talk like again as get kind of hello go ahead metal oh yeah well this is your we're yeah no I thought I actually thought I just flew down my my discord shut itself we can hear you you're good especially if they they build this whole thing where they have this mechanical release in the furnaces and everything like how the fuck they built this there they built a good question well they they they built this whole thing behind the fridge as well it's like when so you gotta be careful about the nature of the criticism here because you'll have a lot of people and they will be in chat saying the company knows about this so you've got to criticize it either that they should have been found out or they should never have been allowed to conduct this all right it's one of those two you have to accept one of them a lot of people like well that is you know it's in fairness like like he says he doesn't care if they're selling body parts that's a little bit later in fact that's this episode I think um that does not sit well with me at all same ridiculous I think that does seem a little unprincipled I'll just also say that's a huge it's a huge security issue yeah there's loads of ways information can leak out through that you're literally having them deal with fucking organ people outsiders yeah this is an incredibly incredibly high-risk operation they're doing on top of an incredibly incredibly high-risk organization it is frustrating to say the least um but for those who are a little bit confused how this works people die in the games one or two or three bodies are taken each time put through they put into a furnace a specific one mind you that has a button on it that makes it so that the coffin falls through a contraption that then gets pulled into a secret area it's like part one is already like wait but wouldn't there be evidence that the coffin is I don't know how you I guess you had to build do you have to build it this way this is this doesn't seem like something you can build after the fact you know so that's a big wonder already but then they have the doctor come in and harvest the bodies to take out the organs to store them and it's like wait so this is all reliant on having a doctor among the players what if you didn't have a doctor yep I guess this batch oh I guess we don't get to organ harvest this game cycle tell all our black market organ clients that we just don't have anything I'm sure they'll be fine plus and they're explicit about how like they need to get these things going that's important and it's just like so what do you do if you don't have a doctor I don't get it then you better hope that doctor survives the first game all of the games yeah like ooh sorry harvest is over early guys ooh this is because this is weird back and forth at one point where they're like I think I could do this doesn't look that hard and I've heard on the news that nurses do it as well as doctors you're like what harvesting organs and you really think you could just casually okay they probably need to work once they get where they're going so maybe it's important not to fuck them up can just cut out body parts okay and so they cut them out put them into little bags put those bags into packages that are likely just you know I don't know so there's this I've seen people bring up the there's they there's no way that the organs will get to where they need to be before they go bad quote unquote wouldn't no matter how they don't get straighted by the games either we're gonna talk about that in a moment so the I don't know about all organ time or how long they last I'm not gonna pretend like I do I'd have to do some google in there but I've seen a lot of people saying that what they present in the show is absurd and that the organs would never be useful with the way that they're doing this I don't know it's black I don't know they do actually say at one point that the eyes were useless so I'm assuming that there's high risk here and it might not work out but yeah apparently they're not paid enough or rather there's so much money on the table with this operation that they're really willing to risk their lives to get the money from it I don't know that's just yeah now that's that half of it that's explaining the actual existence of it the people involved include numbers 28 and 29 of all of the people he took control of our detective he took number 29 which means he is now involved in the black market organ transfers just like really wow you're co-inquiting now someone might be saying well what is that a is that convenient to him isn't that just more so just an event in the storyline it doesn't necessarily help him or unhelp him in any particular it's like it gives him access the VIP room full access I might add yeah and that's uh incredibly important for a storyline but yeah we'll return there in a moment um when we go back it seems that the shifts have changed we've got uh Jihan with Oldman and he's um having a bit of a flashback to the riot that would have happened in his workplace but presumably a co-worker slash friend was killed which is obviously this this is kind of informing everything that was alluded to in episode two and I think missed that first time well it's just it's probably what destroyed the relationship with his wife yeah part of it anyway this is a conversation that's a little bit more interesting on a rewatch because of something we know but we'll just go with this for a while hopefully we come through on that as a planted seed but Oldman is very interested in this he's asking him a lot about it um I think he says that he heard about it because the strike was they fired a whole bunch of people at once um and he's Jihan says he was employed there for more than a decade and so they they did a strike and then they were beaten down obviously we don't know any more context than what we were shown sort of in the flashback but he said the job was really important because he had a kid on the way and he couldn't afford to lose the job um and I think yeah Oldman says that like this was big news a lot of people had heard about it but he doesn't look he looks pretty sad when he's describing the story and I think that you can interpret that one way in another way when you rewatch this show um potentially I don't want to say any more than that I'm assuming people who know what I'm talking about might be able to infer something there but uh yeah he's just talking about how scary it was how fucked it was the situation that they were of course and someone dying there um and then Oldman has a bit of a head moment and he's put to sleep so something then we get but see that that that stuff is way more interesting and then it's like back to detective and it's like do we have to though can we just not really do we can't escape him he's always with us so this is a weird fucking part where one of them is describing that someone wasn't quite dead when they were getting his eyes and he like got up like a zombie it was horrifying um okay we'll have to talk about this first actually put a pin in that so they say red light green light was annoying because we could barely set a salvage anything because of the the fact that they were shot meanwhile tug of war meant that we could salvage a lot and I was thinking to myself they fell very far I don't know I feel like it would be the reverse if anything um that's a big ball if I get shot in like the head man my organs are just ripe go grab them obviously except my brain however I mean your eyes will probably still be fine very very could be yeah um and now if I fall from a huge height and slap into the ground I think all of my organs are fucked probably yeah I would guess so that's my basic understanding of how um there's no one that gravity does less than a bullet like I don't even know that that's true at that height gravity is going to fuck you up I'll take my chance with a gunshot then falling from that distance yeah some are going to get bullet hits every organ someone someone in chat just wrote squish game squish game Goga said it depends on the height so we're talking a huge height big old boy yeah that's the fall someone said that's not true at all so give me more more yeah just say it's not true unless they're talking about the people in the show I don't know I don't know what's happening um bullet damage is localized at least yeah right so if I was shot in the heart I would presume my kidneys are still salvageable yeah now there was going to be some pathway changes that occur when a bullet goes into you it'll move around a little bit but for the most part yeah it's not in the path of that bullet it'll probably be probably all right um oh I agree with you guys okay because that's just I have a basic understanding of the stuff and when they said this I was very confused I was like how I would have thought you'd have the pick of the fucking litter with the red light green light you've got wounds everywhere you just pick the ones that were shot in the head and well if you need eyes pick the ones that were shot in the heart you know like it just seems easy to me meanwhile tug of war I'd be like I don't know how much we're salvaging with this one maybe the back people who fall on the bodies that could be something maybe yeah but um yeah they imply in this conversation that the fact that they were shot ruined any chance of getting organs and I was like that doesn't make sense that doesn't make sense to me at all and then they're harvesting like one or two or three at most it's like man red light green light should have given you fucking like 50 bodies to work with at least um so that's well I mean it's how many they can actually get into that specific shoot and uh well yeah but void being incinerated so they yeah but it's all relative right they say like oh we couldn't really harvest much from red light green light it's like that's the game where I assume you could harvest the most because there's 255 people yeah well I guess the other one would be the the honeycomb because most people got shot in the head well but again if they want eyes too so I assume the eye there's risk of the eyes being fucked from being shot in the so that's what I mean you have the pick you have everything you want in red light green light it's all there yeah strange but I guess we'll move right along they mentioned that there was a zombie there was a guy who got up off the table with his eyes still hanging out it was horrifying because they just sort of you know making chit chat that's how they do the do and our guy is like zombie what uh what happened with that zombie and we I think we find out either now you could figure it out now we'll just get it but he believes for a moment that the zombies is brother and that's who's looking for right so he wants to know what happened to the zombie because presumably they may have killed him and they ask and then the guy explains like well we I think he says we hang on I want to make sure not get too far ahead I'm pretty sure it's in this scene yeah there you go okay um they're like what do you think happened we were in a hurry so I beat it to death with that and he looks over at a I guess a crowbar yeah so this is a really weird scene because then someone else goes hold on why do you need to ask you were there and it's like wait so then why did the guy that beat him to death with a crowbar explain it when he would have known he was it's it's very like wait how did what what is this conversation the fact that he alone he was like what did we do the zombies like the first thing should be what do you mean you were there not yeah I beat him to death because he was like spooking me I used that weapon over there by the way how do you not know this yeah oh dialogue and that's the thing with the way this scene runs it looks like that is the accurate dialogue it's not like a translation issue because we have the blocks of the scene have to kind of go this way for this to make sense and what he tells them is man I was a bit out of it back then they're like oh you a bit out of it yeah okay okay that explains a lot and so they get really suspicious and by the way this is a guy who didn't turn up for a whole night as well it's like and he doesn't talk much at all and he sounds different that he used to like how much more suspicious do you need to get and he goes to pull his gun because the jig is up but the doctor goes hey stop chatting this is my operating room and that's it it's done all right well wrap that up in a neat little bow so bad like none of this is working properly cancer micro dose and someone says he does catch on to him into the in the end it's like yeah that's great it's super awkward if he had caught on to him well before he had the chance to escape you know that's fine yeah old man struggling he wants to give him like a wet cloth for his head if he's ran out of water and um an andrew offers her water and she's like oh that's nice um it's nice you're gonna do that she tries to sort of I think make it seem less uh gift worthy if you will by saying you owe me you know it's just like you know she obviously did it because she felt bad for the old man anybody would yeah I think she says it wasn't for free you can pay me back tomorrow yeah there you go yep she's starting to open up a bit though we're getting that little you know a little bit of stuff that's coming through I like it I like it a lot and see you you settle back in and then it's like right off to the detective like no no go away yeah and so they have their organs off they go and just saying okay because I just don't believe it anymore this I think at this point the whole thing I was totally out I was like this detective storyline is balls I don't even know where we're going with it but it is balls yeah they just go through this oh god just keeps getting worse so he's like what's the game for tomorrow and they're like we don't know yet and he's like okay like to cut a long story short he basically says I'm going to kill you unless you tell me what the game is tomorrow which I found really odd because you like two times he's discovered the game has been right before the game in the show this is the night before he's got plenty of time like so I don't I don't know why he's like fucking throwing a fit and the fact is these guys want him alive okay yeah so he can't assume they're tricking him and he's like pissed he's like you fuckers better tell me what it is or I'll kill you this is like what are we doing um and so he gets so mad that he like like he's like go and find out go to the control room and find out which by the way we haven't even addressed the fact right now yeah feels like they probably should know I don't know why they don't you think yeah I these things clearly require an insane amount of prep to do yes oh yes um I'm the role in the fucking walls also that uh so uh yeah um he's like go to the control room and find out and he's like okay but I need the key that it's in his pocket he's like you could get it for my pocket trust me he goes to look and then he like knocks him over grabs his gun but before he can you know efficiently fire it at him he is stabbed and uh doctor man has taken the life of a circle or triangle I can't remember I don't really care um taking a life of a circle and the other one tries to hit him with a crowbar he does successfully but he manages to escape and he's just running around the facility um this is intercut with stupid I don't remember whatever um just trying to figure out the best do this chronologically right now um so yeah he run he runs off basically and he runs around the fucking mc ash allowed until he finally ends up in the place they played the honeycomb game that's where he ends up and is like all right all of that fucking commotion and I'm just sitting there way like there's no way they're getting away with this right and luckily for us they don't so that's nice uh yeah it's good to know that there's some sense left in the world however small and at the same time detective guy hasn't gotten away with it um they turn the lights on and the guy pulls a knife on him and he's like yo you're definitely not number 29 are you and it's like fucking finally finally um and yeah the guy basically hey for an organ harvester he sure does need a brain oh oh we do have fun here we do have on you so he's like take off your mask and then he does and then he realizes detective man's got a pistol on him now um maybe i'll have the conversation again because i think of you and i did rags but uh i was saying that if you have a knife to someone's neck and then they pull a gun on your belly um in this scenario i feel like the best thing to do is to keep that knife on their neck and say if you fucking shoot me i'm gonna push this into your neck yep yep yeah so the thing is a lot of a lot this is one of those areas where minute details are going to determine what the outcome will be if the gun is to your head then all he has to do is pull the trigger and you can't do anything as a result it happens just too fast for you to react true it depends where the gun is and where the knife is um trying to show it for the yeah he's look at where he's got that knife that's uh he's fine but um he relinquishes his leverage yeah look at that it's because this is the thing if you shoot me in the belly i'm digging this thing into your neck do you want to take that risk like so at this point we're at a standoff yeah your gun should not be pointed at that person's stomach it should be pointed at their fucking brain should i aim for the head always aim for the head because uh when i first saw this i was like oh cool he's got a knife on his neck he's got a gun at his uh his belly it's like now what's gonna happen and then he just gives his knife up i was like oh okay all right i guess yeah um and so he asked him about the zombie and he says the zombie was a girl so it couldn't have been his brother um and then he shoots him uh just gets rid of this guy after not but not before him saying if you go all the way up the ladder you enter the vip sort of area the control center and i remember being so fucking sad when he said that i was like you're not serious that this stupid little underground operation leads to a cave that goes out into a ladder that leads directly to the escape access for all the important people of the island as well as their control room you're fucking kidding me nice that's everything the detective could ever need and he has stumbled across this through a series of insane coincidences hey at least the show ain't inconsistent yeah i mean he's consistently lucky yeah boy um but i can agree to some degree that like maybe having that emergency escape is like the reason that's there for like the vip's i don't know that the vip's would be cool with a giant hole in the ladder system that leads to an underground all good organ operation like they feel like what the fuck is this it's just the operation yeah it's just a big it's not even meant for escape really it's just all purpose so yeah okay i get it i love the idea that the vip's have a backs escape that leads to like you know a ways to get off the island that's great but having it so that that ladder system is interrupted by a big fucking hole that leads directly to this it's like come on not cool so i'm i'm a little fuzzy on the details they're going to meet the organ smugglers right there like coming in a boat i think so uh so because i remember because i remember someone earlier said that like oh well organ donors questions where they got it from it's like yeah they're coming to the mysterious private island though that's just information yeah like it's for a for a big secret organization that's lasted this long you don't want to be seeing stuff like that you want to be like no no no we we have no leaks of any information anywhere at any time but yeah this shot is kind of what i'm talking about there's just this big fuck off hole in the middle of the escape ladder area yeah it's like where does that hole lead well actually this leads to the the kitchen but it's covered up by you know what i mean like the second one of the vip's ever sees this or frontman or whoever's going back and forth in this area for maintenance but why is there a giant hole here where does it go there's like turns out the organ people are using it too just like put one camera there or seal it off with a lock and they're fucked okay my mouse keeps double clicking on its own it's annoying me oh really oh you're gonna want to know that's pretty soon because that's that's just gonna keep happening it's very annoying i hate it ooh webcamschat.com haunt girls and boys yeah i want to click that oh man around my bases you got it before i did james you fucked them up um so yeah the guy tells our detective about all of that that he gets killed so that's just a great lead for him meanwhile dr bro just yeah go ahead go ahead no go ahead go ahead you're good dr bro is like look this has been stressful this is all been very stressful really uh but i i still like you know i just don't quite buy that he flipped the fuck out because they wouldn't tell him what the game next game is when they didn't know what the next game was like it all seemed very forced yeah um yeah like there are way better ways to handle this way better ways to handle this uh so if you need to go and find out right now like i i can't like we're lucky where we're able to sneak out and do this as it is i think we're like dude we've told you when the game is before the game many like previously we've never told you this early so calm down you're gonna be fine yeah you'll have the time you need to be able to prep do not worry about that but no it goes nuts and then this guy is like look i'll take off my mask i'm i'm i'm my flumes we got to get out of here because things will get way worse and then he says something that i think we're supposed to assume is a lie i fucking hope it's a lie he says when workers go missing no one cares but when the players go missing everyone does and i was like when the workers go missing no one cares i feel like those could be the ones who worry about the most because they know where we are what's happening the logistics of the operation the guns so um because this guy's clearly tricking him in the scene and he does try to kill him so i'm willing to just agree it was a lie because i feel like if it wasn't a lie holy fuck that's dumb let's just all agree he was lying to him to trick him that's fine um but before he can strike the frontman shoots him in the hand knocking the knife out as well uh i think the frontman is just pissed off like you guys cheating you know i can hear that you've got a thunderstorm in the background that was so perfectly time for when you said shoot you honestly for a second i thought like is someone moving a cupboard in his room it's uh it's i'll keep an eye out all right yeah it's super loud um yeah and he says you ruined the most important part of this place and that is equality oh boy everyone is equal while they play this game it's like okay and he says everyone who plays a fair game under the equal conditions these people suffered from inequality and discrimination out in the world uh and we're giving them one last chance to fight fair and win that's a very interesting perspective my man it's bullshit well so here's a here's an important question i think is he does he believe this or is he like is does he believe this and he's delusional or is he lying i assume delusional uh the thing is there are layers of fairness for example we actually we'll talk about this a little bit now because i just thought it's something that i brought up a while back a different efab but i'll bring it up again because one of my favorite episodes of game grumps in their first year uh they both play a game called nickelodeon guts i think is what it's called uh i might be wrong someone in chat will be able to correct me on that one but um they both go in blind and jon tron is dominating aron because he knows a particular button does a particular thing and aron doesn't know how to figure it out aron says it's unfair because you had way more information and advantage and jon said no we came in with the exact same knowledge i figured it out so as i asked back then we'll ask again who is who's right about whether or not that situation is fair if you if the idea is that because it's never truly fair in a perfect sense yeah so we have to go with reasonably fair um and i guess it depends on what principle you're trying to execute here when it comes to fairness i think that's an important aspect of it so if we keep in mind the idea that everyone in here is fair and has like like as equal as equal possible a chance of winning i suppose to try and get rid of the variables out there from you know from the compared to the outside world there's a lot of like um huh i think it's super interesting i think that um it's by degrees as well for example if i'm playing a game of like you know fucking throw a ball and land it into a hoop against let's just say free and uh i noticed that a is like high b is low and then if you press a and b together it's mid and so every time there's a mid hoop he can't throw it because he doesn't know what the mid button is i figured it out now do i tell him i'm like hmm i guess i probably should um but if the game is already tight enough as it is i you know i there's a chance i might be like well i figured it out he didn't let's see other scores turn out however if we're playing like a platformer split screen or something and i i know what the jump button is but he doesn't and he's like hey what's the jump button and i just go i'm not telling you like well there's no competition you can't even fucking cross the first platform what's the point like yeah um so there are there are lots of degrees this i see a lot of people in chat saying john was right um when you go in blind to a game and you just like your first game and if there was like a pretense of just you know do what you can try and figure it out um i think i'm okay with it for the first one but at that point after that you may as well tell me otherwise i'm just not going to continue i want to know what you know so that it's fair uh going forward um it's interesting thing about now the reason i bring all that up is that there's a lot of that in this where people know things ahead of time or people know things more than other people because of their history or people have more bodies that are better suited for the challenge or they luck out and grab something that other people had they known what they knew they would have done the same thing degrees of fitness as i was saying they're i guess a good parallel is they're so escape rooms right our family's done escape rooms before you know a little thing we've done you know four or so and one of them that ended up being our least favorite was that we in order to get a clue you had to to move on to the next stage because these are like steps you do this and then you do that and you do this and there's some level of overlap where you help work on this point being that in this particular escape room you had to this was not optional you had to be able to solve a rubik's cube if you did not know how to do that then you could not progress past that point done finished no way so if you don't know it you're not i i don't know if it's possible maybe if you're super fucking smart you can figure out how to do one of those things without being told on the spot without being taught how to do it especially within a time limit and we thought that was shit we told them this by the way so this is like one of those oh it's one of the reasons i don't like crossword puzzles i don't like crossword puzzles because if you don't go in with the prerequisite knowledge of what the answers are you can't progress sure you can get help by other ones that you do know but there are some like if i don't know betty grovel second husband then i'm just i'm out of luck i just flat out cannot complete the puzzle because i don't know that piece of trivia and to sort of like tug-of-war kind of applies to this was it fair that they go against people that are more powerful than them it's like well that doesn't seem fair it's like was it fair that they went against a team that knows how to better play tug of war to better leverage what strength they have like um because some people will know more about tug of war than others for example i know how to solve a rubik's cube so if like rags and my families were racing each other and the fucking like final door was solve a rubik's cube it's like well rags you fucked like you can't really win it's like well where's the fun in that where's the competition that's just pointless um yeah it's like yeah it's like it's this if you want to avoid the idea of the contest is decided before it even begins um and so fairness is an ideal that we all try to strive to whenever we're creating sort of environments like this um and i think frontman is not doing anywhere near enough to make a fair environment yes i think he's even actively sabotaging it at yeah we'll get into that um so yeah also if i can what we'll say we'll keep going we'll save till later the the key criticism people typically have is like this game isn't fair my concern isn't whether or not the game is fair because i think there's a lot to talk about in terms of what that may mean it's whether or not it's consistent with what frontman thinks is fair as a character it seems to me he's full of shit like i'm not sure if he's supposed to be yeah he seems like he's full of shit and it doesn't make a ton of sense based on what we learn about him later yeah but um yeah we can go over this but that's that's a taster it's a teaser if you will uh we'll cover more as we go but also muddies the theme and the uh allegedly biting social commentary i think some would argue it supports the theme yeah but um we'll talk about that well yeah mola has a weird humming that's probably my fan it's keeping me cool uh all right just have a person back i use is higher someone yep it's a fan of the channel they're back there just saying you're cool i'm keeping you cool you are immortal so yeah frontman says you violated the the the equality fuck you boom dead but he's also pulled off his mask as well so that's probably another reason he's dying and then doctor gets uh executed too um i suppose like we do learn specifically he did it because he cheated that's what it's considered and uh cheating then at that point definitively includes having information about a game before starting the game which um we know that uh the doctor would have told other people that you can easily look at that through the tapes and you can know that from how they pick the teams before the games are even revealed this is something song woo points out i'm surprised that there's nothing in the show to account for it like like the frontman's like yes you died because you cheated but all the information you gave to people that's allowing them to cheat is fine it's like okay yeah i guess i wonder you know at what point do we say yeah like oh the cheater got out can we do we kill all the people who figured it out no i know i mean we we clearly don't have an issue killing people but i mean they were just i mean you can't blame them in a sense um absolutely especially if he'd like fucking told everybody or something that was the game over it's like well i don't know but it doesn't as fuck with your because he makes it very clear this is a hugely important like big deal that is the integrity of the game many players have the same information the doctor did and the doctor got killed for it um yeah and as the game progresses i'm not sure if that is really i'm getting i'm getting mixed messages i by the time i get to the end i'm like would you have killed that guy for cheating like that because you kind of fuck around with shit yourself and the people you're entertaining they don't seem like the most sportsman of folks so i'm just not yeah so uh yeah detective man goes up to the the control sentry room and just has its free access to front man's bedroom basically um and they discover the body at the bottom of the stairs um and this this frustrates me to no end it's twofold and i just it sucks the detective plot line takes up so much time because it's so bad they spot that no tanks it'll be worth it it'll be worth it no scuba gear is missing basically so there's no way that he's gone which first of all that's an interesting conclusion that because there's no scuba gear gone then that he has to be on the island it's like we don't we're not sure we don't know how he got here necessarily so i don't know just wouldn't be sure of that secondly yeah why didn't detective man stow away a scuba gear suit to make it look like he used one to escape what about a smart thing to do that would have actually been a oh nice one detective that's that's a good thing and then they know that the hole is locked off they know that the imposter was here none of them go up the ladder to check if the fucking access to the control center has been shot because it has if they check that they would know he's probably up there search it find it kill him yeah you would flood that you would wake everyone up you flood that place with fucking squid men squid squad yes squid squad you would ask you would flood that place with squid squad and you'd say shoot the guy go in go in teams so you don't shoot each other because we have this interesting system of attire and then if you see anyone that just isn't your team you just fucking kill them and i'll give you a bonus or something i don't know yeah man um and so someone was like well what do you like about the detective plot line i'm like that's a great question anyway i like that there is someone trying to uncover these things absolutely yeah in theory in theory i have no problem with the concept of the detective plot line yeah this would have been nicer made a little bit more sense another alternative could have been that it's a detective who's been looking into this for as much as maybe a decade maybe more and he's got all this information he's spoken to all past winners he's spoken to the people who've come out of there out of like voting against it he's learned loads about the facility the games the people and the security and this is the game that he finally decides to try and sneak in he was all the knowledge he has you know he's in he's in trouble with the police department they think he's wasting his time and he's being crazy and he's not following protocol and stuff like that he's like i know it i know what something's happening to these something to do with squids you know yeah something about these hundreds of people that go missing every fucking year maybe there's something we should look into and they all that like this is the this is part of the problem with will billy i don't know when we're gonna get there but it's like all these people you would have found a common story with all of them there's these cards there's this weird game i play with a businessman all these people are horribly in debt yep hundreds go missing every year for decades i have big at the same time actually already i don't believe you go ahead go ahead bill actually already already on this scale like just on this game alone you have to pop looking for his for his brother i think if i'm not mistaken and then he is gone for multiple days so she would probably call his relatives or his parents or whatever it's like hey we can't find your son oh yeah he was looking for our other son maybe there's a connection and then they go to the room it's like there's a weird card here if he didn't take it away i don't remember but something would have happened it's like oh yeah he also sent me a weird man told his boss where he last was or that would have been a really smart choice as well yeah that could be interesting um like oh yeah he sent me a weird message maybe we should look into this and then they probably would have found something to some degree it's uh someone mentioned like it doesn't mean they take place in korea every single year there's a good chance that we they're doing it in all different places all the time um that raises more questions i don't know how to get away with this worldwide and think of the operation at that point i do heavily heavily imply it's worldwide yes they do but how but it makes no sense why would they have an archive here specifically if it's worldwide maybe this is the first one or this is maybe this is the cool base i don't know the implications seem to be that this is the korean one that there are yeah i got that vibe too but then i maybe the files the files get moved to wherever they end up going for the season if you maybe maybe so there's multiple facilities like this with like huge ceilings they can move insane i mean maybe they all i don't know i don't know i was gonna say maybe they all happen on this different populations to people but someone said in fairness 500 000 people went missing in the u.s. last year well korea has 52 million people in it total so significantly smaller the fact that all of these seem to be a fairly central location they all seem to be based in the same location within a week and there are yeah 450 people go missing at the same time in the same location essentially that it in this happens every year no don't i just i don't believe it i just don't believe it i don't believe that this is a state of fucking emergency for south korea and so uh he's searching through all the things and he finds that these games as early as 2007 i think is the early state we see i'm not sure oh no no it's it's in the 80s oh 80 okay oh yeah um yeah because he finds he finds a binder specifically and this is where he finds his brother's name of past winners and this binder full of past winners begins in 1980 i want to say five or six i don't remember exactly wow well yeah uh the obviously the big reveal being there's been a shit ton of games you know oh man like we're talking a lot of games uh which kind of doesn't help with the whole because if this is the first game of its kind i could buy a lot of stuff being the way that it is right now yeah i and that's how we operate for most of it you know but then it's like no this is our favorite so far that that's uh that sort of thing also can i point out an interesting little detail do it um when he opens no he opens the binder for this year um you may notice just go ahead and let him open up the binder there just go to the clip there i'm not sure which one oh when he first opens it yeah when he just first opens the the first binder he finds yep what's missing uh you're gonna have to help me out so i'm not sure where does it start 99 not that one oh no sorry it's not the first one he opens up it's the what it's the current year one current year oh my god yeah current year one current year one moment though please come on i know right open the book good duke come on ruining it i saw you do it already i know you can do it just stalling oh he's taking his sweet ass time stalling to the end there it's like hang on it's gotta be who's called squid archives squid archives yeah is this what you're looking for yeah oh the one number one is missing he's yeah there is no number one the old man he's not in the book um i guess you're right i don't know if there's another page the left there i'm assuming it has just been taken out yeah well he just he just popped that binder cover right open and uh there's no number one you would you would see the the page on the rings mm-hmm yeah that's neat yeah so he so number one's not there and that that was the very first time i'd notice like okay hold up a second something is definitely up with number one now i'm suspicious of him like big time mm-hmm um yeah uh they through having noticed that 28 was like killed they check 28 and 29 is missing so check that and they're like yep so 28's accounted for 29 is missing and there's an imposter in the place so the the the the bad guys are finally catching up with the detective thank goodness um but that they say he's not on the security cameras and you know the one place it doesn't have security cameras which is another opportunity for you to give me reason to think the frontman is smart hey be like oh i know where he could be but no no one fucking thinks that he might have gone up the ladder nobody concludes that that's a possibility excellent ladders are for vertical yeah that's a good far fetched oh yeah in the bathroom is true yeah yeah that's right they can go to they can go take a poo and don't to worry about we'll never find it top people in times um so yeah with with this having happened in a game on the way they um they just root rounding up everybody but um old man for a moment i thought old man had died and i was like oh god this will be really sad but it's uh he doesn't want to leave his bed because he he doesn't peed himself unmissed m-unfortunately um yeah he can't help but feel a little bit sad for him something is um i don't know as small as that in relation to everyone getting killed she's like oh yeah i think that ends the episode so uh yeah we're on episode six now episode six all right the famous one it is famous it is famous it is for the right and wrong reasons well i'm aware of the the former but not the latter so yeah me neither i'm actually not aware oh never mind i was thinking uh i was thinking a seven never mind oh okay oh idiot i can understand that better um damn six kicks off dare i say real strong with making me love jihun even more that he takes off his coat and uh ties it around uh the waist of old man to make it so no one can see his his trousers i was like oh that's that's really nice of you and uh even smiled about it as well he's obviously appreciative of it and it's just um indicative of the heart that he has that he's concerned enough about that to make that kind of move in the middle of being rounded up potentially be fucking mooted or some shit you'd have a dough with this squid game uh humanity just just sparking through you know like if someone in chat is like put the subtitles on as if they're like watching it through this sort of system i wouldn't recommend squid game but this way this is not the greatest way to know it is good enough to warrant watching on its own even with all of the it's it's like it's like that other thing that we were talking about where the plot is tis me with the characters are it's like the suicide squad yeah yeah i think that's a good maybe if we get to the end of the season before everyone dies we'll be able to conclude in such ways um but yeah they are trotted out and they are shown the traitors they are like lined up execution style to be portrayed as like look at these fucking pieces of shit this is what happens when you cheat yeah don't be a cheating loser don't yeah don't be thieving don't be a thieving man um yeah it's a bit of a message sent and uh obviously uh thugman is like damn my guide is dead that sucks but hey i wasn't cheating okay he was a bit brutal and i'm just surprised they got away with it for this long even one of them still wearing the little organ and apron the little organ apron and so we won't have to set that shit up at night it's like get up you need to hang some corpses from the sea leg imagine being that dude like why am i always the one that does these jobs like this is weird jobs all right would you better hold the really tall ladder for me it's like really wobbly old trees all fall on the emcee usher doomhole so um um i'm gonna spotlight uh if i remember correctly for you you thought it was really neat that um you noticed that he'd put the receiver down the wrong way and then the the front man noticed it as well right um well yeah i was like yeah you put it down the wrong way it was shot really well and then he reacted to it in a really subtle way i noticed it immediately we did not need what follows no i've got more problems than just that i'm i think it shows a serious lack of intelligence on the detective's part that he fucking didn't remember which way he picked it up god damn it well yeah you'd want to make sure that you're doing it exactly the correct way you had one job it is not hard to come across as though you're not in that place and yet he fucked it up leave things as you found them yeah mm-hmm and it's a very organized place you know yeah there's only like nothing it is the only thing you're interacting interacting with really so well we'll get so question they they they have a sort of like everything shuts down they go into the room to make sure intruder is not in there they still haven't they're just going to continue on with the games while there's an intruder or quite well to be fair they've not even checked that room that area they just decided now he's not there and all they had to do is check the latch to the ladder and they'd be like oh there's a bullet hole through this he's probably here true it does make me wonder why they would continue like regardless of whether they did anything close to a decent job of looking for him they didn't find him yet they think he's not he's still there and they're like all right we're just going to keep keep playing until he shows up we'll see what happens when someone in traffic i wouldn't remember the phone thing to be fair so he's a detective his whole job is to be undetected he needs to be undetected remember you're at a place where you want to make sure that you're not leaving any like yeah it is your sole focus at that moment yeah like you wouldn't have noticed watching the show but if you were there you'd definitely be paying attention like the murals on the wall yeah exactly i didn't notice the murals on the wall but also i'm paying attention to characters and subtitles and you know the dialogue and my life isn't on the line you know yeah i'm not i'm not living in there for days i'm sitting comfy you're there for like an hour at the most like i die to lull fries oh he said to be honest not to be fair that i'm just saying that um you as a viewer would be forgiven for doing that um a detective no not something i won't let that happen your whole fucking this is exactly what you're here to do is to discover what you can without being fucking noticed you can't even do it don't even with a receiver diversity higher all of them they need a nation who would be funny if the detective character was played just by an American white guy he's an idiot like through the whole thing um so yeah our team is told to go into groups of two to find someone to work with and uh unfortunately this is going to start to create issues because it's pretty clear especially after the prior game you're gonna want just able-bodied man bro that's pretty much what everyone's gonna want and you can what's great about the characters it's just everybody knows this is true but nobody really wants to say it because it's just so lame in terms of just like talk about unfair am i right am i right folks am i right so speaking of unfair uh they're being deliberately active again in the language because they talk about like find a partner find a teammate so that's actually what i would give us a compliment to the fairness on our what we know right now it seems unfair but what it ends up being pretty fair actually uh in terms of you the marble game isn't exactly one that requires more strength or more it's almost exclusively love no i mean ignoring the the strength and physical you know or intelligence advantages people have i mean they're told to pair up with teammates with partners and then they're playing they're they become opponents so they mislead them into thinking they're um forming partner that's actually the kind of vagueness that i actually appreciate uh i think that it's cool i don't know if that's vague i think that's deceptive yeah i i'm kind of on capital side here i'm leaning towards that teammate is a pretty if they use the word teammate that is they use that as a partner i believe if they say partner it's fine but i have to check the language i don't know if that's i don't know they said you'll be playing in teams of two but is that a translation thing teams of two teams of two find your partner yeah and play you want to play with yeah and they say you'll be playing together which isn't a lie yeah teams of two though it implies a team yeah a team a team can be just collectives right yeah let's see no i think they're all working towards the you know together like i can't show you have become partners i uh team is a group of players forming one side in a competitive game or sports the verb is come together as a team to achieve a common goal yeah and then it's a i've never with your partner uh yeah these are always used as being on the same side you're not partners with your opponent you're not teammates with your opponent it yeah this one's it's not checking out i'm just i'm just you know there's not a not necessarily what's the uh what's the criticism though this this isn't a criticism in and of itself it's just a seed for later discussions and theme that they're that they're being deceptive and manipulative and not um vague or yeah that's yeah it's just lying to i guess the question is does that change anything about what their perspective is on the concept of fairness or anything in relation to the game well we can talk about it because um oh no i i well i mean i guess i've not i don't know like is it does it ruin the fairness by someone okay so playing this team's wall just kidding you're playing against each other no not that aspect no it does not i guess more what i'm thinking of uh i guess it has less to do with the the fairness element but um it does have to do with i guess it's not fully honest um well yes so no i guess they've done that for every game or yeah yeah uh yeah so they sort of write a weird line but actively deceptive and vague i like the vague stuff better but that's just sure preference and then there it does get to a point where it seems like no one seems to acknowledge that how can we trust anything they're saying about the teams like they're probably lying they're like we should probably do the opposite that sort of there's i don't know i feel like i would want the characters more to be this would be the game in which they learn that and that can't do anything with them going forward the last thing that doesn't matter yeah we have to look at like what principle is trying to be exercised here because you have one we're not like the outside world everything is fair in here like everyone's getting you know a decent shot and at the same time or do or we or we or do we go with if everyone gets lied to that's fair well i mean i guess it's just what is the unfairness here um you've been saying you're playing as a team lol just kidding you're not it's it hasn't changed anything about how fair or unfair the particular game would have been regardless of who you picked i guess and maybe even a thing of saying like well yeah your assumptions were wrong you pick teams thinking oh who's strong and stuff like that but no if that's not the game that you're playing yeah it's less to do with whether the game is fair for everyone competing in it in this instance as it is to do with what this says about the general theme or idea or the ethics of the people running the organization and then what the show is trying to say about how this game compares to the outside world and also what what this does or doesn't do to change the mind of competitors going forward about how much they should trust what they're being told by the organization again with that one though that doesn't change game five or six well yeah so sorry i just saw someone that said it's causing you to make a bad strategy but everybody's making bad strategies because everybody assumes that you are you're working together so in that sense it's it's unfair to everybody it's equally unfair to everyone it's it is interesting how it affects the idea that like you're not watching as as a vip person watching this you're not watching people play games strategic i don't know it's it's you're deliberately misinforming them for the drama i guess but i mean is there anything to be said about whether or not that evokes because i mean of course in narrative it's really great in terms of bringing out some interesting conflicts well i also think it matches the the design of the games being like they're gonna rely on information they've garnered from previous games so we're gonna subvert them completely yeah which they do in a few occasions i'm not even sure that i totally buy the whole because like i was in when we were training for um uh when i was in tech support we had to split into teams of four right that's how it was because we did other team things one of them was we had to build a giant like lego sphere i have no idea what else to do with tech support i think it was team building but um like the teams had to compete against each other right there's another one we had to form in teams of four and then we were all given a piece of paper with a paragraph and the three one person reads it as uh at the speed they believe to be like um efficient as a speaker and the other three time it and then the person they framed it as the person with the fastest wins right um but at the end of it they revealed no it's not about reading fast but reading clearly and that then they reveal what the actual speaking time should be and the person who came closest to that ended up being the winner when they thought that they were like one of the losers point being is that we split into teams to then compete against our teammates and that didn't come across as strange at all to me like yeah no i i don't think the implication you guys gave was the a teammate is not an opponent you can't use that word to do that but it might have been a mistranslation well that too um maybe yeah that might actually really be the case because they just said partners and kept saying partners it's like well that could mean a lot of things well much like playing with that person it's like well yeah that could mean a lot of things i guess i'm just saying that even in real world examples i don't know that saying someone's a teammate excludes them from being someone that you can compete against right um it i don't know if i agree with that but it's ultimately well so i know that that's true because it's happened in real life but that could just be examples of people using the words wrong i guess which would then be used as validity for this just like they use that word and someone in the in the crowd to be like that's not what teammate means and the squid game people be like okay but we you know we kill you right yeah i don't think they're that concerned about it um yeah i i guess i it would it would certainly have been i don't know the verbiage if it was super tight in a sense but i i don't know i'm i don't know at least i i completely agree i think if they had kept referring to them as partners um but then again i guess someone could argue isn't your partner not supposed to be someone that you fucking fight against so it's like your your um all i really want to all i really want to plant here is that they're deliberately giving them deceptive information so they can't make the best in or the most strategic informed choice for the drama and entertainment of it which is interesting and they're all equally affected by this so it's not in fair for everyone it just this will be relevant for future discussions of what the message is and how happy go ahead i would agree with that i i think it's just um this is probably an element of a lot of the games right we'll talk about it later on but um in the fifth game you know the numbers you have no idea what those numbers mean in relation to the game that you're playing depending on the choice you made your fucks like just mathematically and there's nothing about it to correct chat the like you're expecting ethical behavior here hmm it's like i think what capon and rags is more so consistent rather than ethical strictly yeah there's because if because you get the because i think that's one of the issues you sort of get mixed messages in terms of you because i was really interested when square gets killed and frontman says you know it does this thing about you know fairness and that's the most that is the most important thing is that the these games be seen as fair and that we're fair and that we're not it's not supposed to be like the outside world and that sort of thing like that and then when you meet the ips and when you see stuff in the games after this point that just sort of that super interest that i had in that concept where you know how do we justify this whole thing happening one of my thoughts was oh maybe a super principled group of obviously mega rich people are doing this to do something or test something or that like it planted that idea that that would be where it goes but it gets muddled by itself later yeah it muddles what their ethic is not that you know the the ethic of gamesmanship and sportsmanship and what they're looking to see out of it and what that says about the message of the show um i assume yeah that's why i want to eventually uh mm-hmm we are at six hours um we're on episode six i i i i i think i have to go up i'm afraid right on episode six yeah i'm very very upset about it but i have to get up in about six hours or so so oh my goodness that's your lucky number i'm lucky number i guess yeah and we do another when we do is now a struggle tomorrow mutually and we is we is indeed a blue i need to nap tomorrow somewhere i don't know it's gonna be gonna be tough one uh yeah i wish a good stay but not feasible i'm afraid because of this gosh darn work i'll be yourself i know you sleep now is that yeah yeah i fall yeah whatever you said okay yeah um all right so we go go back to these these events what i do like character wise they're all like well we gotta get them strong strong folk um and i think the the crazy lady appeals to like many people in the team but she realizes that nobody wants to be teamed with her that ain't happening and then before uh it can what was that oh okay uh before it can be like figured out in terms of what the best idea is um song woo asked ali ali to be his his teammate and it's like oh because the obvious thing of that is if he's your teammate then he's not my teammate and neither are you like okay and uh it's um definitely you'll get it just it feels like they tried to evoke the like on the playground with his three friends but only two can do a thing it's just like sorry i have to go third wheel bye bye yeah um and yeah uh the the crazy religion man and just other guy i think that we haven't really gotten to know they team up um lots of people start teaming up and i think uh our protagonist is like oh now and he looks at old man and it's really awkward because i think even as a viewer you're like oh man i don't need to team up with old man because you'll never have a chance at that point but at the same time you're like but that's really mean just to do like every other guy um and before he can say i don't want to be your partner uh the old man is just like take my jacket you wouldn't want people to think less of you by not having one i'm just like oh he just he just walks off because yeah he just he's like no one's gonna want to be fucking teammates with me i get it it's fine um it sucks then we have the moment of just having a look around and does this do oh uh obviously uh thugman is teaming up with his second in charge thugman makes sense they could be thugmans together um yep and then andrew teams up with the girl she dragged in for tug of war seems to make sense why not and um why not she says as a pitch like i'll make sure that you win this it's like oh all right stands useful um i don't know about you guys but my thought when i was first watching this episode was that we were going to be subverted into a game that girls were going to win like it would be something to do with i don't know agility maybe or um maybe even sprinting or something i have no idea but i thought that was going to be the i don't know we don't we yeah we don't know what girls are good at on efab nope if someone someone would have to if anyone in chat let us we don't i don't know um keep it yeah give us comment below like and subscribe yes leave an essay uh cleaning competition wow oh uh um yeah this is guy who's like i was waiting for everybody to partner up so i could offer you to to our main dude he's just like really okay um he's like i'm a math teacher i'm pretty young like he's like selling himself and uh he said like look we got a partner up because the last person there's an uneven number here which means there's going to be one person remaining and uh that one person you know not going to want to know what happens to them and he's like well what would be that and he's like well they'll probably get killed um and he just says i'm guessing it's going to be the old dude and he's just sitting on his own at a quarter it's like odd he's um it's a really great shot too nobody wants to be friends with him and yeah it's a great meme template mm-hmm he puts a hand out and then we see a hand come down for old man it's like yay kind of an interesting sort of feeling though because as a viewer if you're being completely honest with yourself you should feel like man protag might die because of this yeah is that what's gonna happen are they gonna is he gonna die for just being nice gonna be what gets you killed mm-hmm but um that's always satisfying but i i always like as it is we've sort of finished the choosing of partners that just cuts to here in the middle on a road been like you're all stupid you should all be my partner yeah and she basically appeals to everybody until she ends up on the ground everyone's gone and she gets pulled away which um yeah it's been 50-50 with people who i've watched it assuming well she's dead and some have assumed no i think they wouldn't kill her because this as would be cited too unfair i i was thinking that she would be alive i don't part of it was because i think they're really starting to play up a resolution between her and thug yes and i don't know if they'd set that up so much just to have her die randomly um but also i do think that if no one the odd person out just like pretty much any sport if there's an odd number though they get a they get a freebie if you don't have an opponent to play with in that bracket or whatever you get to go on to the next round you get lucky and lucky in your favor um yeah that was the main reason why i thought she'd live was we wouldn't pack that much work into her as a character just to kill it like that would we like it's possible but seems like we could get a bigger payoff i really wanted her to die so badly and i'm so annoyed that they kept her alive i wanted her alive because i figured i figured she'd get back at the thug so i don't like the thug you like the thug i hated him you'd like yeah well i i like him as a competitor you know and this is where i think in a sense yeah and i you know we're watching the sport of squid game and i'm like oh i hate him but he's he makes some really smart moves and i want to see how he plays the game who else would uh who else would kill him who else but quackmile there are other ways there are other ways i hate the way he dies too we'll get to it all right well um yeah there are the things there are the ways to sort of partly partly i the reason i don't like the the thought of her surviving even though she didn't play the game is a is it fair that she doesn't have to play this game when everyone else does what are the choices you have killer because she's killer because she didn't get any opportunity to play no she had plenty of opportunity just everyone fucking hated her so you deserve to die in the squid game world because nobody wants to yeah because you can't form an alliance why would that mean anything to be fair someone won't is it always going to be because they hate it or is it just going to be ultimately well i think i mean i think if if if built into the game is like the old man like he he could have died and it's like oh fuck here my guess right he uh he couldn't form an alliance even though he's old if the concept is even in its own strange way sportsmanship and fairness i think it would be bizarre that the person who is left out in terms of they there's not a teammate if they killed that person this game is not fair i know it's not fair but what i'm saying is that from their perspective of fairness is it fair uh sorry no teammate you die you don't even get a chance to compete i feel like probably strange considering his dichotomy within and out and the thing is i can see some weight to the idea that she doesn't get a partner because everyone fucking hates her i understand that but like they that's not always going to be the case old man was almost without a teammate not because any other reason when he's old and also the meaningful reason why neither of them get a partner is because there is one person has to not get a partner yeah and so that person doesn't even get to compete like from the perspective of the people who make the game it makes more sense to me that if the option is you get to advance because there's no one to play with or alternatively you die because you get nobody to play with i feel like they just let you skip i disagree especially when how willing when it when it's revealed how willing they are to just let them kill each other and and like they just let them murder each other in the night and they're like ah fuck it okay now you can stop killing each other i don't i don't think they're concerned with like oh well you know it's not your fault really because eventually someone was not going to be able to find a partner so you don't have to go through this particular trial i feel like there's a difference between them killing each other and person who doesn't get to join a team through the lack of numbers should just be executed i feel like that's a step further yeah because the problem is and i think as well it's like remember it probably would have been the old man and like it's they're devising the games so it's like you know we have 30 people and they go this is a 28 player game so two of you got to die it's like wow that's okay yeah like all right okay well well didn't we okay so i'm a little confused now i don't mean to change the topic we talked about before if they didn't have the perfect number of people for say tug of war that they would have contingencies for that we did and this would be the contingency that that she just doesn't have to play this game if we had 63 people and they split into teams of 10 and there's three people left over they get to skip yeah that because if it was like 59 in people i don't know that they would let the whole team they just have to pick something else i imagine it would be by degrees okay so then like well there's another option on the table potential that she is added on to one of the other teams that was in this game how does that how is that how would that work well they're they're like obviously what we discover in this is that you can play marvin bunch of different ways so there are ways yeah but how would you enforce that on another team though like another team all right one of you now has to play with her you have to you don't even get a choice in the matter well they don't get along yeah but they don't give a fuck about fairness so they they believe that they do in a way that is flawed in a form yeah in a flawed format they believe in it which is one of our issues but but it's operating under that you know and um to be fair some people are saying like well if they figure this out they're not they're just going to choose to not be in teams so think about tug of war if you want to get a team of guys that are barely and buff and one of them is like i don't want to join because if i don't then i can just skip and it's like bro i think you have better chances here than hoping no one else picks you because you're a big strong good dude and that goes the same for a lot of people might be if you understand the game you want to you think you have better chances of that than not being potentially like forced into a group beyond a lot of people who are trying to escape it i think there's this kind of works uh works out but the thing is there's so little games i don't think people realize the uh the skip option even exists before it's too late to even make use of it yeah mm and and also there's the aspect of they probably want to keep as many people for as long as they can yeah and that's why why would they incentivize them to kill each other in the night if they well so i don't actually like that i don't know if you guys want to talk about that now um i think it's bullshit i i agree i agree i just think it seems to conflict with the idea that they want to it is as late in the i guess it i'm trying to think of what it facilitates story wise it makes for a pretty strong action scene it convinces uh andrew to join their team um it creates a lot of paranoia and concern and it's often it's going to be cited as part of the point that people will tear each other apart rather than work together sort of thing um but i i don't so what i what i really hate about it is when they describe it as it will get rid of the weaklings and it's like i mean yeah maybe you might just get rid of random people who knows yeah but like why are you trying to get rid of the weaklings quote-unquote yeah it's a game like marbles yeah oh gosh we don't have weaklings for marbles or the the um stepping stones even the jumping one yeah like it doesn't really matter how strong or weak you are for that one in fact those slimmer and thinner whatever you are for stepping stones potentially the way better yeah um so yeah i can i can totally buy that there's a way in which letting her skip is more fair than um killing her but i the thing i don't like is that she doesn't have to endure this horrible traumatic thing when everyone else does because she basically walks away with an advantage here it's like she's rewarded for being unable to find someone to partner up with because everyone hates her but that's the specific information that they go it could have been that they do what they do and alternatively again you keep talking about her it could have been that the old man gets rewarded because he's old and everybody just assumes that he's worthless yeah i could just frame it like that and it's possibly yeah it could it could have i'm just sure but you keep framing it negatively that's and the problem now is i'm starting to wonder do you just wanted is the fact you wanted that seeping into what you believe they should pick no it's not you really want to get it sounds like i really don't like her i'll admit that for sure and i just see i see the fact that she was the only one left out as a reflection of her failing to play a certain aspect of the game in which she can build alliances and that anyone would want to play with her that's well so that's why there were 40 people then she would have had someone to play i was about to say new anyway had like this is the thing she i doubt she was outcasted by literally every person they're hating her i imagine most people didn't even well a lot of people wouldn't have known who she is um and the fact is if some if they were like you just said if there were 40 players and there was just one girl left over one guy left over whatever and they're like well i guess we're partners i doubt they would have gone i refuse to play with this person no nobody likes the thug but they all want to be on his team yeah the thug is a piece of shit but he's probably the most popular yeah right like if you could you could be playing the game really badly in that regard but just physical advantages like being strong like helps out i just don't know why you guys i just don't they're not matter for you i wouldn't i wouldn't say they're mad at me either no i i what i'm what i'm saying is that i can see what you're saying i just narratively there's a part of it that i find really unsatisfying and that it's and and that it's you know because of these circumstances she gets to skip what ultimately is a very very brutal and traumatic trial that everyone else has to go through and in terms of narrative satisfaction though setting her up with the thug and then ending her like that would have been way more unsatisfying i suppose i don't understand a lot of i mean why you would say that well yeah they spend a lot of time with those two and you know getting them to be pitted against one another with the betrayal and i don't like i don't dislike her yeah i i i wanted to see her kill that man i i see a human being in it i'm sorry i see a person that's been really trying to make us all work yeah she's clearly she's doing what she can do to survive and he's just like evil because i can totally believe that if thug was not as evil as he was and he wasn't that back stabby she would have absolutely stuck with him to the end oh yeah well she's willing to stick with the the good guy team except that obviously they get split into pairs and then she's pulled off it yeah i think she she will yeah i totally see i wouldn't i wouldn't have i didn't see her as someone um who's incredibly loyal in that regard i wouldn't call it loyal um i what i thought rags was more so that she's less like she's not invested in being an evil person i would i guess it's she's not as actively uh disloyal as she could be um yeah and plus there's that aspect of i can see this person operating as a good person in society or a normal person in society thug is just a bad person through and through she's an opportunist he's just a fucking a thug with a piece of shit he's a bad man she'll back stab probably where she feels she needs to but if she can get through life without doing that i feel like she probably would she's just annoying like it with a lot of a dialogue um i definitely i'm not i'm not basing only on the annoying factor i i disagree i would find it i i don't like the fact that she killed him i don't find it as narratively satisfying as you do so i you know that's because i like that's all it was set up for her to be really at the end especially when you have like well she says if you betray me you know i'll kill you it'd be really weird to have those things and then she just dies here because she didn't get i would be i i have very specific problems with the way that he is unable to prevent her from killing that way we'll get we'll get to the episode don't worry uh so i what you're saying there is that you don't find it satisfying for different reasons to what we're talking about here like in general of the two options you still don't like the one that ends up being for more specific reasons in the episode uh that was there's a lot of vagary in the sentence so i didn't quite follow what i'm saying is like you're saying that as much as it makes sense that she would knock him out you don't like the way that it happens well that's definitely part of it yeah so you know i i i i concede it is it is perfectly fair and reasonable that she is allowed to skip this i as a matter of taste i don't like it for the reasons i specify um i'll be completely honest with you when i was watching it i felt like if she got killed because she didn't get to get in a team that it would have been pretty lame i was like that's the really yeah just that just sucks but pretty darn disappointed how to accept it i think i could have rationalized the way in my head because they're not exactly hyper consistent um but i think it made way more sense that uh that she gets spared as a result of everyone assuming that she would be a horrible person to partner up with it's almost like an irony especially because just the fact that she's in that room waiting for him pisses the thug guy off yeah um fair enough but um i think arguments can be made that they would do both both of those things could have happened and i think we could still square away the um well i don't know that we will be able to square away the fucking philosophy of the people who organized this whole thing um definitely no yeah we won't be able to i don't think we'll be able to uh but yes we'll do our best we have our teams and uh the the complication of course is just the what is this game going to be and how are we going to win and um the hope is it's going to be a game that the old man has some experience with and that they can maybe have a chance because it's not going to be muscle related and uh turns out they are correct marbles i don't know if it has a more specific name i think it does right um uh isn't it called uh knob like ganbu or something isn't that the name no no no that's my friend that's the friend all right yeah yeah i'm more gamble maybe it's just called marbles i don't know yeah pretty much it might be that yeah well that's the thing too it's not even a specific game their whole job is to come up with a game and then just take each other's marbles not common the common game played with them apparently is the one where it's like wages of how many are in your hand and stuff there's a lot of people are playing that one um then they're all the ones yeah which to be fair i would probably opt to not play the chance one i'd be like let's play i'd rather play the one where you throw the ball into the hole sort of thing oh yeah against the wall yeah i'd prefer that too um and yeah as they enter the old man is like seeing all of the the brick the fences and everything and he's saying it reminds me of his old neighborhood which is just going to slide us in to a development that's going to keep happening here yeah and yeah they're really happy because together they're both pretty good at marbles they know it and they can probably take out other people which is interesting because they know that they would be killing them but they're just happy to know that they can survive yeah as a result and yes they are ganbu now which means real good friends and he said let's give each other everything we are best fucking friends yeah we share everything and and to do pinky thing to make it official yeah horrible yeah ganbu and it just yeah i'm glad pinky swearing has cross cultural yes relevancy um and it's nicely done because i think up to this point you sort of look back and you're like yeah i'm glad these two uh are together they're they're cute i'm this is gonna be great maybe and um yeah he's like we're gonna take all the marbles in this town it's gonna be great excellent and then the announcers like hey you uh you're all done doing the happy moment because about time for it to end like you you gotta play the game of choice with your partner and the player who uh to take all 10 marbles from their partner wins um oh no yeah uh this hit fantastically for me when i was first watching it because um yeah all the teams were built with the idea of like a trust or a love uh and working together and now they've been told that one of them has to die and it's going to be down to the the team to decide it essentially with a game or something else um which is incredibly cruel and creates many forms of uh drama yeah we've got conflict everywhere yeah we got we're basically doing a different thing with every single pairing because with like thug man maybe this is jumping ahead like thug thug man and thug man there's is definitely more of the like overt conflict one of like all right fuck it now we gotta we gotta beat each other um yeah they seem pretty chill about it i think he even just goes shit bad like meanwhile uh songwoo is an ali at first he wants to try and just like all right let's just play let's try and do it and not get too emotional about it yeah um and of course until all these are totally destroying him well yeah i guess we'll get it well so this is gonna be this is a tough one to do because as you go it progresses each story piece by piece about six scenes each or something like that so i'm not even sure how we should go about this but i was thinking maybe do one pairing at a time or should we do it some other way um the pairing at a time at a time yeah yeah that's probably the way to go i think we'll we'll leave old man for lost we can go in order of the the the way the episode does the payoffs the first obviously being thugman thugman is the low stakes one we don't really mind who wins that one but we're still interested in seeing what happens yeah um so yeah for those um for those listening who have no idea what this episode is even about just to make sure you understand they were told to pair off in in pairs that they believe would be like a powerful pairing or a trusted pairing and stuff and then they're told that they have to compete um and the winner obviously wins the loser dies which is pretty rough for a lot of the people involved and you if you were listening we got the pairings of the ones we just listed but we'll probably go through them now um because the way this episode works is literally just showing them with their games and what they talk about and then the result i guess you could call it pretty low-actiony it feels almost like a bottle episode it's not quite um but it's yeah pretty meaningful uh in terms of what we're dealing with so yeah i figure it's going to be hard for me to get the right visuals for all of this because i don't i don't know where each of the scenes are ever what is but i guess we can start with thugman um does anyone else want to play well i know that the the story with the thugman is that they're playing and it ain't going too great for thug um and i'm probably through he's like fuck it can we can we change games which is like allowed um i don't have a problem i think that makes sense you can pick and choose the games that you play to frame it right it would have been play a game get the marbles and then his his thug friend would have been like right then we're playing marbles right and this is like that's the marble game marbles it is and then he was like you chose that i didn't choose that i want to choose a game yeah yep which you know he lines there you get to play a different one and it starts to shift away and things start to change um and then that they're throwing their little marbles into the holes and thugman is losing but then the other guy throws his marble and it bounces wrong and it knocks thug's marbles into the hole and he wins it do be like that sometimes i just want to highlight because i always want to watch this fucking episode thugman two i guess we could just call him his fucking face when he realizes he's knocked his ball in yeah if i would if i was thugman two i feel like in that situation he would be totally trying to be like that's not part of the rules that doesn't count that's not how it goes but he just sort of accepts his death i feel like that's perfectly reasonable that he would be like i've definitely lost yours is in the time to run instead of thinking through it being like how could i argue this from a rules because i think song who would do what you're talking about freezes and of course the fact that he's sitting there trembling it's like right so you know you've lost really like you do you can't you can't talk your way out of this you recognize that you've lost yeah the actor looks like he's passing one of the hardest and then yeah he tries to run away and yeah he's dead um and i don't know what would end the scene that is shot though where like there's a the the guy who was meant to kill him is standing behind him as he gets shot with the machine gun the smg and it's like hmm you're gonna kill your own body yeah like it is a bit awkward uh i'll show it why would you shoot it like that why why would you not why do that well um let me get it up because i remember um thinking about it so if you look at the the angle um i think one could argue because the guy behind him is just showing up you can see it on our end i think the one shooting doesn't even know that guy is there before he's firing anyway um but the way this is shot right boom boom boom boom boom it's like oh any one of those bullets could have gone through and shot him yeah but uh ultimately it would have zero consequence because like yeah triangle man is dead i guess like whatever oh did he make like sweeping shots too i didn't i didn't call how like he was firing but he looked like he was sweeping the barrel or i was like jesus age christ dude i only have one one complaint about the whole thug and two uh that line doesn't hear yeah no it's that they there's a moment where the idea seems to come into one or both of their heads i can't remember exactly how it plays out that like can i just beat the shit out of you and steal the marbles and they act as if no violence isn't allowed you have to play the marble game fairly but the only thing is the the games uh the rules of the game never explicitly say that correct i wonder why he couldn't just punch him steal the marbles go hey i have all the marbles song woo and there's a rule for that song woo laid it out well i was gonna say song woo and thug to both reference this rule we never hear it but i think just to be good faith we have to assume that was said and we just didn't hear it at some point or whatever really because we all i feel two characters referencing it yeah they wouldn't have made it up i i guess yeah so you're saying the idea is that it was said but we just didn't there was between scenes or whatever we we have to assume that that's the case yeah okay fine i mean i guess i would have preferred it was explicit yeah i think yeah because nobody resorts to violent none of the groups resort to violence there must be an understanding that's so strong none of them do it i it would have helped me so much well they did wait hold on but in the uh when song woo he grabs ali and starts screaming at him he gets a gun pointed at him true oh yeah that's another good point so all all it would have really taken to fix that for as if they just said it when we heard the played over some people in chat several people in chat have said they say it i'm trying to find when they say it so i wasn't no good i okay so and also people mentioning that like the guards that are there for a reason right they're all with the other pair you can argue the guards are there just to execute a little yeah true yes that's true and to inspect the games make sure nobody's fucking around i guess players please take one bag each from the staff member instead of 10 marks please check to confirm the number um and then the and they say a couple things we come back well i guess the thing that throws a wrench into it as well in this game using your set of 10 marbles play the game of your choice with your partner the player who manages to take all 10 marbles from their partner wins and then she repeats the instructions that's it wait and also didn't because song woo when he because i was about to say like he stole the the marbles he said like i didn't use violence to get him why would he say that unless there was an assumption where have you been i referenced that already yeah sorry i don't know how i blanked on it yeah my bad no i didn't someone asked if i watched the dub no this is based on the subtitles it's never i'm basing this on the subtitles maybe i don't unless it's it could be said and not subtitled i'm not sure i've seen a lot of people say in my subtitles it's there so now i'm wondering oh that's weird and the thing it like this is such a fucking problem i've also pulled up a transcript that i has a transcript and it's not listed there either it's just i believe that that would be something they would place into the game to avoid that yeah all i i just wanted to hear it once no i understand but the thing is like seeing it getting enforced and having characters acknowledges exist that's good enough for me as a yeah that's three years i had forgotten the part where it was by the guy who pulled up the gun i had forgotten about that so i i see what you're saying um but it could just be that maybe it was said in the subtitles didn't cover it i don't know but i i would have preferred it be explicit there's no reason not to include that it helps us as viewers just make sure we understand but there are many people have said there are different subs that's very strange there are different subs yeah i think in the file i have there's three english options oh fuck why i've got forced english track 10 english sdh english i'm not entirely sure what the differences are all right that's so we can um since we're doing the groups uh i don't know rags dash caps you want to take the next grouping and describe what happens or uh well i guess we can do i get it of course we'll save arguably the best for last uh next up let's take um let's take our two ladies sure let's take andrew and andrew too andrew andrew too so andrew we've spent uh quite a bit of time with since the beginning but andrew too was a fairly recent addition to our cast of uh lovable characters and i think it's in a very befitting way because they're both kind of distant and uh you know it fits their personality i feel where andrew essentially just says uh let's just fucking get it over with um and then andrew too says well you know we got 30 minutes or however long it was um i mean we can just decide it at the very end let's just uh let's wait till the end and essentially just have a chat and they we we learned about you know a lot of the back stories for both of these characters the tragic back stories for a lot of these characters or for both of them which informs what ends up happening at the end where i guess you have andrew too right uh andrew too her she had an abusive uh abusive parents essentially particularly the father really and he was a pastor which informs why she is very not keen on people praying around her she's kind of soiled on that idea uh pastor is implied that he molested her or abused her essentially and killed uh her mother and she didn't she got sent to what happened to her after that she got sent to like was it she killed the dad after that and she doesn't really have any family nowhere to go there's just nothing for her she's just alone there's nothing happening uh kind of in her life when she got out of prison or juvie or whatever yeah fresh out of fresh out of the slammer and she believed at the time that she was being picked up to follow through on her father's debt um but rather it was squid game people being like hey want to join the game and he's like yeah okay which um is not a fucking great backstory uh by that i mean it's not a fun fucking life to have lived uh you lost a whole family she may actually be hunted down to finish off the debts her dad has no one cares about her not fun nope not fun at all so that's uh that's one side of that coin and the other is of course andrew andrew has a history this is where we learned about the north korea stuff uh i believe the father died getting out of north korea with her he died of was it was complications or injuries that he had sustained i think so um and the mother is still in the north and her her little brother is here but he's in like a foster home or an orphanage um i think it's an orphanage and she's looking to get the mom out of north korea later get a you know family for the kid that sort of thing get the family back together essentially um and she's doing that they're using whatever means that she has uh available to her which in this sense is going to be she's very she's got some her frisky fingers as we have seen with her sneaking things in and out of uh well into squid game with her cutting pockets and pick pocketing multiple things from people so that is andrew's sort of backstory and so she's also not had a great life uh she's definitely in the process of making her life better but you know she doesn't trust people she's kind of learned that she needs to do what she needs to do by herself uh relying on people is not a it's not a reliable thing to do so the two of them you know i have their chat and chit and time passes we get their conversation throughout the episode time is winding down tick tock tick tock there needs to be a winner you have to decide the winner so at the end they just decide all right what we're going to do is we're just going to come up with a game here if you throw a marble at the wall i'll throw a marble at the wall whoever's closest wins right and gets all the marbles and so andrew makes a shot it's not too good right but who knows uh now andrew too she steps up and she's got her marble in her hand and then she goes ahead and lines up her shot and then she drops it right in front of her feet and this of this this makes andrew very upset right this makes andrew very upset that she's essentially giving up winning she's she's essentially sacrificing herself so that andrew can continue um because andrew too she says i don't really have anything to live for uh i ain't got much going on with me but you you've got family you've got stuff to do you go ahead and you go on um oh i forget they talk about what they're going to do with their money uh a little you know nice little thing that they do or you know andrew lays out i'm gonna you know get my mom out help my brother you know to try to start a normal life you know reasonable stuff that you want to do for your fam uh up in the north which one's good to judge your island i think right uh yeah and um there's the thing about the mojitos uh in hana lulu right or hawaii deves i think she says all deves yeah yeah yeah um but that is i really like this pairing because we get a lot of slow build up with andrew little by little opens up starts to kind of learn to trust people starts starts taking a little risk like here you have the water i'll help you out here and there i'll take a risk but then we finally get to see that deep down she really really does kind of value people around her and she just expresses that in a much more reserved way she doesn't she does she really keeps her emotions super close to herself yeah i think it's the first time we see a shout yeah uh good pairing feel free to add whatever you'd like i'm not good at recounting events yeah well it's it's just it's really well done um i've already seen people in chat saying they actually found this one the saddest moment in the show which is uh fair um yeah yeah i was i was about to say that you know the i was about to say save the best for last place i arguably there that was a very that was a tactical arguably i think because there's so there's that's that's a good one there i think this one and uh with our protagonist or the two two best i think uh just for hitting the hitting the heartstrings because boy this was uh i misty eyed a lot in this episode this was really good one i really like this so um yeah just to make it clear she she chooses um if some people still confused say biak i believe is today but i keep butchering it so that's why we went with adrew as a joke okay but she's uh she basically says like go get your brother meet your mother make the family i have nothing there's fucking no point in me living instead of you the just some cold calculus of the emotionalisms i guess and yeah she just tears up quite a bit because um it's just harsh as fuck and yeah you've got oh the way they line up the payoffs in this episode man just uh be relentless at one point but yeah we see her walking away and they frame it just right that she's behind her she can't look at her as well obviously but um this skills performance is pretty good as well considering the very limited time she has yeah they um they make a lot of use of this character like this is really efficient we don't get much of her at all but they really make us feel for her we're sad for her backstory and it doesn't come across as a contrived backstory to make a plot happen the acting is phenomenal for the character who isn't a very let's say this character isn't particularly like vibrant and jovial though i don't blame her considering the circumstances but she's kind of flat in a sense uh i don't mean that negatively though she's kind of reserved like this pairing of characters they go really well because they're all they're very similar to each other and the way that they express themselves um but at the same time you could tell them apart in the words that they use you know neither of them seem excited and energetic but just the the dialogue that they make like if if you got if you blurt it if you blurt out the names and you just got text versions of their conversations you could tell them apart just by the text you could tell them apart just by how they communicate yeah so and uh be strong juxtaposition already with the early one being a brute force trying to beat each other this one is sacrifice just straight up and i think your last line is uh i'm honored you chose to be my partner i think yeah yeah so good that was that's my favorite of this particular episode really really strong nothing but good thing to say about it uh so who wants to take ali and songwoo i'll take this one um so i was hoping maybe we can also kind of clear up a confusion that i had throughout this exchange okay fine but um so this one starts out ali and songwoo are together here and they're going to go ahead and play the even and odds game that both that the old guy and uh gihan are already playing and um songwoo is not doing too well in this one ali here is mopping this game up even though he's never played it before and songwoo starts to eventually break down the more he loses until he's down to his like last one marble he starts losing his shit songwoo starts getting angry he stands up and he starts shaking ali like rather violently asking if he's cheated and that he's lying to him somehow and then that's when one of the triangle men comes up and aims his loaded revolver right at songwoo just to break the fight up so we've already inferred that they've tried the violent they've tried violence just even just a little bit and uh they've realized oops this is uh this is not how i have to go about things i can't just throttle ali here and just get the marbles by force i have to be more clever about this and that's what songwoo is all about songwoo breaks down and he's like i'm so fucking sorry ali listen like i don't want to die please help me out on this but ali is like no dude i've got a family to look out for too yeah so i can't just give up here dude and so you know after a good amount of begging from songwoo is saying like look at what i did for you look at this i gave you bus tickets and i stood guard i did this this and that look at what i've done for you you can't do this to me ali is not budging so songwoo decides that he is going to try and make it so both of them win so he's got a plan and he's going to try and tell it to ali now here's where i get confused on what songwoo's plan is and i'm hoping maybe we can discuss what he's trying to say from what i've gathered songwoo here is saying like okay here's what you do we're going to grab our marbles we're going to divide them up again and you're going to hang on your marbles you're going to go around and you're going to see if there are other players who are have still not decided who the winner is and you're going to play with them and try to gather their marbles and that way both of us have 20 marbles in the end and then we both go not quite okay so go ahead and clear that up for me if you will yeah so the deception in fall is first he says something i think is pretty agreeable but then also not in the he's like we're gonna have people at the end of this who haven't decided to win her and what are they gonna do shoot them that makes no sense and then ali is like yeah i guess so when it's like no that could that might be what they do like no they would just shoot them probably by the way yeah i think that's what's gonna happen if yeah if you don't if you expect because violence is off the table if you too don't essentially cooperate to make sure one of you lives you both die which is i think part of a that's a key thing and what makes this a super interesting uh game and so he says we will keep out 20 you can hold the 20 and what i love about this is he's like you can have my remaining one as a sign of trust and then he just puts it in his own pocket like song was a little bitch like a clever bitch uh so it's just giving a sense of like yeah you can trust me um and so yeah he's the idea being the you uh we need to find i think he wants him to find the weakest teams right in prep and which ones who aren't finished he's like you know you sit the left side i'll sit the right side we'll meet back here when we run out of time and we will fight them with our 20 marbles as a team like we intended to um yeah he just convinces ali that that's going to be the this the scenario that's how this will turn out and obviously the language i think when i was listening to the explanation i i was a little confused as well but i thought that the whole point of that was that it was a little confusing yeah i think so just because he was trying to do something therefore i didn't try and super hard and core try and understand it because i i thought that was kind of the point that they were going for mm-hmm yeah he's i think the idea is he just wants to find the right people to fight to get a win and so right he says like you gotta look out for who's prepared look for one that i think he says is it they want to find one that's old under yeah like over 50 or under 30 something like that which is just like criteria that'll take time for him to try and you know look for i thought yeah i honestly figured he gave him that criteria because most people here don't actually suffice in terms of that bracket there's a lot of people who are literally that bracket so it's going to take him longer to be able to find the right team to fight sort of thing yeah let's buy a little time have him go off on his thing while i'm doing my dastardly deeds indeed and this is where thugman 2 gets blown away by like a big old bunch of rapid fire which gets ali's attention and in this moment sung woo swaps the marbles well ali is looking toward the action he swaps the marbles with another bag and then he gives it over to ali after he's done tearing his shirt up for a nice little necklace for ali to wear right keep it safe so he's like there you go keep your bag safe right here you don't want anybody stealing it from you so here's my shirt all torn up for you in a nice little necklace now get on out there buddy old pal and so he is left to wander aimlessly with this bag around his neck sung woo then leaves the area he heads on up to the guard and he says all right there you go i have acquired all of these marbles and i didn't use violence to do it and uh so as he's leaving we go ahead and we cut back to ali who is running out of time he goes he goes back to where sung woo told him to meet up which is where they played and that's when he makes the horrible discovery that those marbles in the bag were not in fact marbles he was he had filled this bag full of a bunch of rocks out a little garden that sounded enough like marbles because of the smooth surface yeah and so ali can see the hasty droppings of all these little pebbles just all over the ground from the garden behind him and uh he completely duped ali and ali's left there to let tears well up in his eyes realizing that he's been duped before he gets shot in the head yeah it's a i found that shot so fucking powerful where they just show him realizing it and then the camera just pans to the side yeah um and it's it's rough as fuck because ali is nothing but a fucking legendary person yeah he was he was nothing but kind and trusting to win that's yeah that's that's what they argue i think with this is that yeah exactly he had no he really had no chance um to naive despite being an incredibly adept player in terms of just each of the games he does quite well at but um yeah i have one i have one question about this and i i do like everything they're doing one question is why he why he believes that if they haven't finished the game that they won't just shoot them because it seems like all the evidence would point to the fact that they would just shoot him literally just that he was told by someone that wouldn't make sense right i think that is enough to make him think like i guess so yeah because all you have to do is have his brainwave be like yeah what if everybody jams up then you wouldn't just kill everybody i guess the game continues i think there's a level of trust that ali puts in song woo's assessments of the situation for sure definitely plays off as yeah not to mention has ali really expressed any deal of skepticism very much when it came to these games and these plans i don't think so he's yeah he's not been naive he's not yeah that's why that's why i think his flaw is he's too trusting and too nice um yeah which is what it is his tragedy that's the thing he's he's it's a story yeah um he's not stupid he's not like smart he's that it like his intelligence is never really something that they talk about either way it's just that his problem is that if you could call it a problem i guess you could as he's too trusting of other people and he reminds me prior to all this he reminds me of all the things he's done for him and how he should trust him so this it's yeah yeah he doesn't want to take advantage of other people and he doesn't want to hurt other people he's doing it if he has to do it it's because he has to yeah song woo put it up away yeah because so often during the show he has been very reverent towards song woo he has been very thankful for all of the things he calls him sir all the time he's very very respectful um so that is and again that's what it is go ahead no i i do get it and i'm not saying it's a problem it's just definitely on a first watch the what seemed like overwhelming evidence there's no way they would just not kill you if you didn't finish the game or complete the game seems so obvious that it that in my head it kind of outweighed the other factors that you just i honestly think it wouldn't have worked on people like us we would have been like no we're finishing this game uh the way that we started it yeah there's no way that they're gonna be like oh all the people you didn't finish oh you you're both fine then just go back right that's the thing we'll do sudden death even though we've never you know i just i think that's part of song woo choosing ali not just the strength but also you can manipulate them quite easily mm and then i guess someone is putting out song woo is a financial financer who cheated on people hence his debts um he i think i absolutely believe he would do it i oh yeah i mean i wish i would do it yeah i wished ali i don't know i wait there is there is something in ali when i first i'll just say i'll just say the first time i watched it it like they were making him a little too dumb but the more i think about it it's i i i lean more towards what you guys are saying that's all i yeah i have a hard time with the word dumb i don't i wouldn't reclassify ali is dumb just again or the nice my my first watch was the this was kind of a dumb moment and then thinking more about it i can see how am i in character sense ali is a character who has consistently worked at a job where he's not receiving his pay because he's been told he'll get it like then when he sees the guy with it he doesn't let that shit slide yeah and that's what i think is happening here which is so fucking tragic that tia is because he knows sanghu was lying to him the whole time yeah um his best friend in the whole game yep the person that i who helped me that i really really respected the person that you know that i if i if only i had to kept those marvels you know i was played i was tricked and it was because i was too pure and i liked um that along with the song who loses the part that's gotten him in here in the fucking first place he's terrible at gambling like i guess and he the gambling game of just i'm sure it's this it's not and he gets fucking angry because of 50 chance 50 50 chance to lose and he loses what three times in a row he's like no that doesn't make fucking sense statistically it's like you must be cheating it's just like this is probably the fucking shit that got him in here like yeah that is mm-hmm yeah if yeah getting getting a 50 50 three times in a row is a one and eight chance um uh one one of the things i thought when i was watching it is that is it song who am i saying that right yeah i think so close enough yeah close enough that i i think part of my problem is that he he didn't make the case convincingly enough me but then the more i think about it the more that i think the language barrier helps him or helps make sense of this a bit more too you know that he was the first person to tell ali that he will explain the games to him and he'll get him through this and yeah up to this point he would have so yeah no i think i think that makes sense yeah but i when i first watched it i i came away with that they made him a little too dumb but i uh my mind i think i don't know if ringy was the same i remember thinking about some things but like when they paid those two up and revealed this i was like yeah so one of these characters have been characterized previously as naive one of these characters have been characterized as fucking ruthless i know how this is gonna end yeah yeah especially when they showed that he was losing the betting game i was like oh song who's gonna do something yeah the um and i i don't blame him you know it's one of those things where you're like i i i don't blame him it's like well we you walk out of this and you hate song who for taking advantage of a really good person that you really like and then you think about yourself in his shoes and you're like uh i mean hmm for you you can do it man i don't think it'll be that bad do it for me come on for you yeah what's what what is your australia hail sound like like a machine gun outside or like oh god everything is worse fringy are you gonna do it can you do it do it let's hear it fringy we believe in you oh for context it's hailing where fringy is right now and he said he has stuff to say it's like well before we leave this morning i was gonna say we can't move on to the next one until he has his things said exactly and we have that you have to do it or fucking type it if you're not gonna say it do you think like as soon as he typed that out he's he got up and went to get a coffee so he did all of this is falling on defy is just like there's no idea what we're saying or maybe uh or maybe a hail golf ball just kind of blew through the window and now he has to deal with that i wouldn't rule it out bring me are you alive prince olly naive is he i'll give oh no that is that is cruel though i guess we're gonna have to move on all right well i guess so which leaves i guess i'm just hit the un just hit the button hit the the mute button to unmute yourself and then begin speaking yeah bring us a little button you can do it you can do it do it until he rudely interrupts the person talking about the next thing i'm gonna have to wait until and um yeah cap that leaves you and the old man's door how do i have to summarize it i can do that i think that makes sense yeah i'm sure you can do it go right ahead all right see i i i on a rewatch i only made it up to episode five so i haven't rewatched any but i will do my son of a so or so basic basic idea is that they play the version of marbles where it's the odds or evens version of the marbles game and uh things are not going well for our protagonist and he sees signs of man's dementia creeping in and so he thinks himself hmm a wonder fight so a little too fast i was gonna say because the way it starts is old man is like i love this neighborhood this great and our character like hey we got to play a game we're gonna play and it's it's interesting from a character standpoint that he's like having loads of fun he's like i don't play the game and then he fucking pushes him against the wall and he's like we've got to play this fucking game and i think he says like i can't i have to get out of here and it's just like hmm we've already we pushed our character a little bit and uh you know the the core values are starting to overtake any sort of superficial ones that may have been there but you know it's it's interesting to think about but karen um okay so uh he decides after seeing that uh our old man is not quite a hundred percent there or at least he perceives it that way he decides oh maybe he can convince him that he actually said odd when he said evens because he doesn't remember what he said and so well that wasn't oh see if i'm missing stuff i think feel free to jump in okay that well that wasn't the protagonist's idea from the start yeah that to be for the way that suddenly gave him that opening is and which i think is important when considering bonus contexts that were both in this episode later but um worth mentioning that i think it's fucking amazingly done the camera just sits on him realizing he's lost it's all over because he guessed odd when it's even and as the camera is creeping closer to him you just hear old men say which one did you say and he just like frozen until he slowly looks at him like because that's an opportunity right there um and that's how it starts the deception is given as an option and then he starts to facilitate himself yes uh i think you should keep retelling it because i'm clearly forgetting yeah our basically the this basically all of this can be summed up in one sentence which is as the old man gains his marbles he loses his marbles well said right the goodies so uh i mean i you want i can uh go ahead and because i've been i've been trying to go for it yeah i've been kind of like watching in the background uh while you guys were going over the two the two edwards or whatever we're calling them i forget andrew's andrew so um all right so the old man has then given him the in that he's going to start playing with his memory in a sense like oh should know what have you done again this thing the genbu thing is later um so the odds and even game continue to be played and the protagonist keeps on using this in because the old guy's like oh what did i say and he keeps changing his guess whenever he opens his hand and so he keeps winning and winning and then eventually um the old guy comes up with only one marble left or rather first the guy thinks that he's won he's got all the marbles because the guy dumped out his bag all the marbles came out he got them all and he lost them all and so the old guy's like oh dang i'm all out hey tell you what can you um can i borrow marbles from you i want to keep playing but then the but then the protagonist is like nope i'm uh i'm i'm done so he goes up to the guard hands him his bag but then the old guy pulls another marble right before that the old man is holding open his hand he sees three and he's like right next round just closes it and is like how many do i have it's an our guy's just fucking tear it up because like yeah you just showed me because he can you just showed me and the progress of yeah extremely poor memories yeah and he's he's uh already come to terms with the fact that this was a choice he made and this is the end point um and because when he's like oh i don't have any more marbles let me borrow one is that shot where they show it like the full screen is filled up with his hand holding the marbles he's just crushing it with his hand he's like i can't it's fucking sad i gotta i gotta get out of here but then the old guy digs into his pocket he's got one more marble he says hey i've got one more i'm still in it but then as a protagonist is ready to go back you want to sit back down the old guy gets back up and he continues wandering around like he was earlier and wearing out the clock oh it's it's it's even better than that moment yeah it's even better than that ass because he's like he's counting his marbles thinking that's 20 and he goes i only have 19 and he went back over the old guy and he's just wandered away yeah yeah and so just yeah he's he's throwing a marble on the ground counts to 19 yeah yeah you're right and for like an atmosphere he just came to terms with having screwed this guy over and now he's got to go back to finding him reassessing getting back in the game and tricking him again like it's just like oh for fuck's sake because there's yeah because he can't possibly not guess it at this point he only has the one left so he knows he knows but see he's already like completely mentally broken down at this point and he still has to keep doing this so the old guy wanders further out and then he recognizes this spot and the old guy's like yeah this was my house we had wonderful children and we did all kinds of wonderful things he goes wandering into the yard and gihan is just he's like i really really need that marble man we have to keep playing right now and gihan is so mentally distraught at this point that he's grabbing and shaking the old guy like we have to keep playing we i need that marble old guys just talking about how as a kid he would watch his like brothers and sisters play games and how fun it was and how yeah it's kind of been a consistent thing of his where he reminisces about his childhood yeah and specifically watching people play games and enjoying games in general he loves he loves his games yeah so theme the um theme exactly so the old guy then says all right well i'll tell you what let's play one more time we're gonna bet it all one wins we just win it all my one marble for your all your marbles and we just bet it all and then gihan's like well wait a minute what i so all 19 marbles go to you if you win and he's just kind of nods his head like yeah we're gonna do that and gihan's like no dude what the hell that doesn't even make any sense then the old guy busts this out on him he says that doesn't make sense to you like tricking your friends to win the game and then gihan's like oh fuck you don't really say anything and he just frozen because of that yeah he's just completely frozen in that moment because he realized the old man hadn't actual was completely cognizant of what he was doing and he had essentially thrown the game on purpose and so it's complete like i don't think gihan says anything at all anymore at this point well yeah because i adore this moment because of the fact that in a neutral standpoint me having to put up 19 while you put up one doesn't seem fair but it's like but how did you acquire those 19 and so yeah calling him out for that eat this this righteous indignation of i shouldn't have to put up 19 and then it's like you fucking stole them all from me it's like got him and he was because obviously he was operating with the information that he believed the old man had and so it's just like yeah you shouldn't then he's like i have more than that and it's like well there goes the wind from my sails uh and yeah you said he has to sit there for a moment understanding the person that he is um because it feels incredibly fucked but at the same time i feel like pretty much anybody would have fallen into doing this um i have your life's on the line yeah he's looking for his family and stuff yeah yeah so gihan's done he's not saying a word anymore but the old man continues earlier on they were talking about ganbu about they were best friends and best friends will share everything with each other no matter what and he is reminiscing on that moment uh let me see if i can bring it back to where exactly what he said he says uh oh he's really slowly putting a mark so the old man eventually just grabs gihan's hand he puts them one marble in gihan's hand and he says go ahead just take it remember what we're talking it's yours anyway you remember what we were talking about earlier or ganbu man we're just talking we we're ganbu aren't we yeah don't you remember when you and i swore that we were ganbu buddies yeah he just ganbu always share everything with each other no matter what and gihan's completely losing it yeah he's just he's just yeah so we're all killed me and closes his fingers over his uh marble and just hugs him and he says thank you for giving me such a wonderful time you made all this very wonderful for me and uh they they they squeeze each other for a good long time and gihan's just sobbing his head off and the old man seems a okay with all of this he he's just says he's had fun he's made a friend and everything's okay and uh as the as gihan slowly leaves you see one of the pink suits aim the gun at the old man camera pans away from him for a good long while you hear the gunshot the pa says player one has been eliminated and we just leave over a big wide shot of this load of death all over this cute little set and uh that's it and it was right after he gave his name as well or il nam yeah yes obviously he couldn't remember it in episode three yeah and he was ready to get his name now yeah uh i so that's easily my favorite episode from the show um yeah i thought it was fantastic the only flaws i can come up with are just very very minor and almost preferential um super impressed with with how much they did with all the dynamics of these characters and i feel like they justified how they got them into this situation and i think that it works as well that the people in this world would want to generate these situations for the entertainment factor um at the same time it means more to us because we're very invested in these people as people and then to have built characters that are so different though to generate completely different scenarios that have incredibly strong payoffs i would argue but in different emotional ways i was i was just i was pretty blown away that's one of my favorite episodes of tv just in general it's good good good stuff uh one of the only things i don't like about this episode is something i wish it did that i just didn't cover is that i would have really liked to see the couple deal with this particular thing you're doing the next episode i don't uh i don't disagree but i don't know what we're cutting to put them into this i agree no for sure i i i wouldn't want to cut any ah the thug and thug two stuff maybe i like thug and thug two no no i wouldn't cut it completely i just i i would have i would have really liked to see the couple deal with this issue it's not really a flaw at all i just really want to know how that conversation went i mean i'm with you in a sense that i think we could have made the episode 10 minutes longer and we could have included that um at the same time i do think it's powerful to have seen them realize it and then we just see him later so we know um maybe there is a sense of value in being able to know that something else is happening this whole time that wasn't just regarding the characters we've come to know um but i mentioned we haven't followed either one of them throughout most of these episodes anyway i still would have liked to see it but um it's not really a criticism it's just uh do more because this episode was good so you're saying it's a great episode make it better i i don't know if i don't know if adding that kind of ruined the pacing and the timing of all these great reveals so i don't want to say that it needed it i just i really want to see that conversation because yeah i get you fascinating it's all i get it's all i have and there are additional things to comment about in this episode but only once we get the context the last episode so we shall return yeah uh that's that's the one other thing but we'll get there um seriously i i couldn't praise this particular episode enough i think it's fantastic uh and they end this is too bad we have the next episode i like the next episode but man do i have criticisms for it um i feel bad i free next episode it's called vip fringy hasn't been able to unmute yourself yeah fringy where'd you go frangai where'd you go fringy you don't even know if it would actually be loud or not fringy what did the hail get you were you killed in the hail fringy because he hasn't been able to talk about the song we'll pay off or the old man pay off i feel bad it's a it's a really good one let's just he was pretty moved by it i i it's like oh fringy where are you buddy i think we'll just have to NO! that was me sorry that actually scared me the e-move got him well i wonder if rags cried i did i was uh i was balling through this whole thing i was i tears are streaming down my cheeks this was uh really really great they definitely spent a lot of time and effort and talent to earn this uh from me it kind of it made my face hurt i was like trying to not try and my face hurt afterward i mean it's just exactly what i want out of my stories gives me all of the feels what i'm what i'm looking for um fringy what did you think of that payoff yeah fringy all right well when he finally gets back people will love to know he's truly speechless he's yeah he's he's crying right now he's just trying to compose himself that's what it is yeah our our wonderful uh summary has just moved him just out of the room so what i'll say now is that i think meddling rags saw this episode and then we had to sort of try and find a different time to watch because obviously it was fucking difficult to fit all this in within time but mel i think didn't see the next one for a decent chunk of days right i was i originally watched this all in one i was just so gripped on and i don't know what happened even with the detective storyline can you believe it um and but so the way bell watched it he was like you know that last episode when he starts up episode savage he's like oh you know that was uh that was quite that episode this one opens with just the shot is ali's corpse that he was like right thanks for inviting me like oh man yeah we're back yeah it's it's i just feel like it's a good visual to be like yeah how fucking rough was that anyway moving on we gotta keep going bet you loved him huh because now it gets the point now we're just like fucking hell remember when we had like 400 plus people now we're down to is it it's 18 now is it or 16 some like that i think so yeah 16 and uh yeah i think so funnily enough with this episode um this was the one where a lot of people i'd say a lot of people were surprised with thugs demise and they didn't think they thought he was going to be the end villain um i honestly thought it could never be thugman because he's not interesting um final boss compared to someone yeah he's just yeah he's just like he he's a good uh archetype and i i like the villain yeah but he's just he's not an interesting villain if that makes any sense if it were him he's definitely not more interesting agonist that again yeah protagonist then uh actual guy whose name i can't remember oh you're right 17 but one kills himself and yes chat i'm so fucking sorry this is the episode with the vip's are introduced um it's become a meme for coverage on this everyone hates the vip's and i'm not going to be disagreeing with that very much at all i hate them too we'll get there we'll get hey look at all the illustrations of the uh games yeah now it's become fucking clear as day but whatever we're never going to have them be acknowledged even when all the beds are cleared they're not going to acknowledge i hate it i know i hate him so much when the guy kills himself he's literally i know i know looking right at him um anyway we find out crazy lady is still alive and they're all just kind of like the fuck ever like they're all they've all just gone through what they've just gone through so they're probably just like she's just really happy and she mentions how it sucks when you're like a kid and left out in that way and um i think she said that fact it into their decision or whatever or that they mentioned it a rule they have or something like that she said yeah she said to prevent a kid from turning into an outcast um amazing isn't it regardless uh this is where frontman realizes that the receiver is in the wrong place and it's funny because this is what i was trying to get out but we couldn't get here yet uh there was praise given to oh nice noticing that i'll give you a plus in terms of that's cool that he noticed but i think it's a fucking negative that he announces to the person i have noticed you put the receiver down wrong i will now hunt you like what are you doing you idiot i know you're in here your gun is a smith and wesson revolver why is he saying it why is he saying any of that yeah why can't you just moralize the detective to be like see i'm really smart and i'm coming for you and look how smart i am i figured out all these things and i'm gonna keep talking so you know where i am also not calling in my my squid army so here's my good squad here's my alternative suggestion just be like lovely normal day in my office gonna go downstairs and he just goes down and then he comes back up with an army and he's like everyone check each of these rooms at the same time find this fucker and be like yeah do it and i think that would be really fucking cool uh i appreciate you a good smart ruthless fucking villain but instead he goes after him say it even if he didn't bring an army which he should have even if he didn't say a thing and started opening doors i would have been like oh that's great because then i have to lean in and discover what he noticed that maybe i didn't notice it's oh what is it's it's baffling to me that you as a one man with no armor and a pistol are going to try and hunt and kill a guy who's got he's hiding from you specifically with a gun and would kill you like what and is waiting for you yeah why like to be honest frontman what are you doing like he could kill you especially when he find out that he won this competition yes i think he would know a thing or two about survival it's weird um and it annoys me and it annoys me on every end there's just barely anything in the detective plot line that satisfies me i'm always frustrated speaking of which uh he gets a call here it comes here it comes we found a body say washed up on the island northern coast it's the it has an idea on it which is detective whatever the fuck detective's name is and it's like there we go sweet and that is enough to convince frontman that he must have attempted to swim out there and got killed fucking amazing he really yeah and the timing and the timing and the timing yeah i guess i really could not have scuba dive and i don't i don't want to diminish how important those two points are but also if we remember the guy pushed the body the guy who he's the detective stole pink man's outfit through his body with his clothes and his id over the boat very soon after they got on the boat and now they're at a private island presumably somewhere far away from south korea maybe in the middle of the pacific and how did the body get there i don't know um but i i'm also ready to add to that we got the two points your point and now a fourth point if you have a medic on staff which you how do you not have a medic on staff you have a medic on staff any medic with the salt will be like this guy died a while ago this was not recent and you said you saw the imposter what a day ago yeah this ain't the him yep yep to be fair you probably recognize that as a normal person deal by the crabs yeah someone said that the currents brought it there the all right really i mean i the island would have to be like within eyesight of the coast for that to work and if it's in my side of the end point is the north it was on the island so either the island is actually very close close to the coast of south korea in which case how are they keeping or it's a private island somewhere civic that far from the jurisdiction of south korean police and detectives and in that case how the fuck did that body get there well maybe we don't know where the island was because it wasn't in the i'm trying to i'm trying to formulate this in my head i was so excited for it maybe we don't know where the island was because it was in the pacific ocean not the specific ocean nice also uh this guy really does look vaguely enough like detective man that he can get away with this imagine he didn't imagine it was a black guy yeah imagine it was a guy who's bald or had a mustache well not not a mustache wouldn't be it but i don't know this i know you could be like well maybe he lost all his hair over the course of however he is that the idea of it i just hate the fact that he looks just like him and that this is enough for them to believe it it's like i'm pretty sure this is the same guy i guess we found the imposter woohoo we're done like lame so yeah everything about this is wrong i don't think there's anything about it that works i think i watched this episode with drinker and the prior one and it was funny because i was like he loved episode six and i was like yeah man you know what else wasn't in episode six he's like well he's like the detective i think he was in it so turns out i feel like could you imagine if there were like three detective scenes in that episode just sprinkled through would be like please leave me alone i'm busy uh he knows it's not him or so he stopped searching for the imposter until they confirmed the imposter again so i assume that's uh the show is telling us keep looking yeah until you confirm that it's the imposter not we're not gonna look until we confirm that this isn't the imposter um it's a bit doesn't make any sense he has to think it's him or else why would he hold off the search go back to his office yeah um so what someone has said uh had mentioned earlier um uh how do you hate seeing people walking into rooms with guns at arms length yeah i do i really hate that it bugs me immensely that's it's just i'm coming it's it's like it does bug me to see that people have these like they're searching around corners and rooms open they're opening up doors and staring into darkness of dark rooms in particular with a pistol out at arms length in front of them i'm like okay i was actually asked on real bbc like what is rags thought of the gun and gun gun weird gun usage in this show and i don't know do you have any thoughts on that in general uh weird that they use the revolver specifically to kill people when they carry around submachine guns like why why have the extra thing you know i guess is it just more more stuff you have to have is that ammo efficiency or is it not no i mean the because those are mp5s that they're carrying those are just nine by nineteen and the revolvers they're using could be i don't know probably 38 specials or something but it's just why use a revolver and also have these submachine guns that you're using what why the revolver is it because it's more fun to see or interesting to look at or it's more intimidating to have the revolver at arms length when you shoot someone um i don't know is it to facilitate making i i don't know it's just it seems odd that they'd have both of them um i mean spared no expense mp5s are expensive um a little little dated but that's all right there's just no worries with that um i just want to point out really quick that one super chatter the island has to be a because fairies to bring the cars there and fairy boats likely would not reach somewhere in the middle and no specific that just creates more problems for how the fuck they kept this all a secret how to go with that and i would also say that someone said um what's happening here is he realizes his brother is the imposter and that's why he's not going to chase him out because he likes his brother and that he knows this body isn't his if i told you this was detectives body pretty sure you'd believe me like in terms of just yeah why not he looks just like him and the idea that are we supposed to believe then that he's allowing his brother to just run rampant across the facility because he's his brother like that sounds stupid yeah that's ridiculous yeah you think that he would be principally pretty opposed to nepotism supposedly my assumption fairies right some people were saying i cut out did i cut out a number of times when you were describing the fairy well i gathered what you were saying but if you want to repeat it go ahead uh basic idea someone points out i think correctly that the island has to be pretty close to south korea for a ferry boat carrying the carrying cars to actually get there you can't just be in the middle of nowhere in the pacific somewhere like midway island or why or anything like that so if it's that close to south korea it creates more problems for how the fuck they've never been caught or noticed before i mean even and even the aspect of how that they must have built this entire fucking facility which is an impressive facility um so huge it's its own thing of how this was all organized and i i guess a billionaire bought an island i don't fucking know i didn't want to pretend to and then yeah he bought an island very very close to south korea such that the body could have reasonably washed up ashore but it's it's just far enough that no one has ever noticed that all this stuff is going on there yeah and this massive facility was constructed which will require countless amounts of men and machines and huge project to do and nothing with there's not a huge paper trail that leads a bajillion eyes to the fact that this exists and scale of this is you would have to have like the government is in on it and even then it's questionable people will resort to that in defense of the show and i just feel like there's nowhere near enough information to conclude that anything saying that the government is in on it i think it's explicitly that they're not yeah almost i just they're don't believe it so yeah we now believe we're pretty much safe it's only later once the imposter is rediscovered that they start chasing him again and i just found out to be shit very well i was someone sent me a picture of where the map picture of where the island is i don't know if this is the actual island they use for filming or i'm not sure but that's supposedly what i've been shown here i don't know enough about how all of that we're still able to point out the issues for it but seems not that remote or maybe it is i don't i guess i don't know i need to know the scale for like what it means to be a remote island um so anyway husbando oh i guess there's a little bit of dialogue that i think sangwoo just says he was an old man like it's fine in an attempt to make one you feel better though it's not really gonna work the one thing i i think was already missed in episode seven before we even get into the a lot of criticisms is why didn't our protagonist ask about ali and what happened and how how it ended up or is he always supposed to just believe he concluded they played the game and ali lost i mean i it feels to me that it's with him just even acknowledging that ali is dead you know i can't i can't imagine he has much fight left in him after he just took the old man out um plus in terms of like of like i know what you had you had to do i guess you're the one one of you had to win i don't i can i can definitely infer that that's the case i guess i i just want him bit more explicit yeah i want um something for ali i guess to confirm yeah i agree if he just said something and then he could say oh you know we played the game and ali lost you know i felt really terrible about it but that's just the way it went you know some sort of indication that he's concerned again uh there's a lot of room to say that he's just so fucking the fact that old man's dead after the experience he had that he's not gonna ask about it but like obviously he doesn't ask about it for the rest of the season i just just an acknowledgement i guess that's all i'm after um i'm not entirely sure exactly how i would phrase it either but anyway uh husband is losing his shit and saying if all of us just vote we can get the fuck out of here this is way too much they had us kill the people we care about and then the alternative perspective from sangwoo being uh yeah with everything we've lost i think we're gonna continue um we're this far and obviously i think i think he says if you felt this way you should have fucking died in a place sort of thing uh song we would just just get in a bit more ruthless at this point and um i think egging himself on as well so i think uh there was there was maybe a missed opportunity for an interesting conflict here because it would have been interesting to me not that it's necessarily what the show needed to do but if they said oh you're only saying that because if we all vote to end it now the money will go to the victims families and you're included in the victims families because it was your wife that died oh he could have turned he could have turned that against him and that could have been interesting like he could have made it seem like oh he's not really saying this of any real objection he's just being selfish uh not a flower anything i just think it was a could have been neat well yeah i i just enjoyed the scene in general because i i just believe it's sangwoo speaking to himself when he's like we're here for this this is what's happening we've come too far because uh what he just did to ali was fucking stressful as hell he's got to keep going and then arrives the vip's um can we skip them visually like you know it's like oh look at those crazy masks um and these guys the ones who fund this probably at least in the sense of a majority they're the ones that want to see this live per se just to just see it how it all happens they've been watching the other episodes i guess must be weird to see the um the squid game editing team who put in all these episodes together to send them out yeah that'd be an interesting environment wonder if they add music to tell you how to feel i don't even know who uh because that's another thing i've seen people say is like uh you guys talked about the soundtrack rules like yeah i like the soundtrack in this um a lot of unusual pieces of music yeah i like the yeah sound i really liked it yeah there's a lot of it was neat there's a lot of gentle ambient tracks that get used for a good bit of tension i dig it yeah yeah now everyone seems to pick this up pretty quickly uh the people i watched it with certainly did what is going on with the american people in this it's it comes across like there's a couple of explanations that might fit it the one i thought of was is this the fact that they picked up what were american people working in korea for a long time and they've kind of lost like the dare i say americanism yeah like like they they've spoken korean for so long but they still act as they can play americans but now they sound fucking weird when they do they talk like they're in an anime i i would say it's probably for the budget and this is actually isn't a very centered this is what these are probably the best did i cut out yeah try again uh i think for the budget and this not an incredibly high budget show while things considered that these are probably the best american actors they could get living in south korea and they're just and there just aren't many good american actors living in south korea because all the good american actors are living you know in hollywood and other places well it's the writing and the delivery that means yes it probably is both the writer and the actors because i think the actors they don't talk or inflect like americans do no no like any really any western speaking any of us here they don't they sound bizarre like they're from a cartoon it's like a person who doesn't know um how a language they know the technicality of the language but they don't they're not surrounded by it they don't speak it they don't hear it enough from maybe native speakers in native lands to where it sounds off it sounds like an alien is writing dialogue it sounds like it it sounds like a video game and pc to me kind of um when they say when they say certain things it just gives me like patrolling the mojave almost makes you wish for an your winner like that sort of i completely agree i would i think i think it's like a b movie you guys you guys know ryan's babe yes yeah all right it's kind of like that you know the dad the the drunk dad and that they talk like he talks they talk like like a tommy weissow wrote them like it's exactly but you're like a bizarre alien version of what a human being is you're like a like a neil breen wrote these characters there is a really drain they're they're not right they're not they don't sound right and it takes you out of the characters and they they don't seem worldly i think that's the thing that this they was really lacking they don't seem like these are rich affluent super highfalutin mega rich people like illuminati types these sound like a bunch of yes it which is a real shame it in a higher-budget show or in a better casting you would have the charles dance style old rich affluent super mega corporate businessman or this almost like 1920s style manner baron sort of you know like these very very top of the top of the top because these guys are secretly in charge of this whole insane series of organizations and these guys just sound like a bunch of loser goofballs big miss opportunity for me is that they all blend into the background i don't fucking know any of these people when you could have had vip's that for example the charles dance one could specifically be here because he respects the human animal and wants to see them compete at the top of their game sort of thing and another guy could be like i just love violence i love seeing people get torn to shreds and another guy could be like i'm a gambler this is the best gambling there is in the world i just can't wait to win all the different reasons for them all to be there instead they're all just kind of the same thing and they all they do is provide cringy dialogue yeah they're all 99 all super cringy yeah super they're all super cringy and they give really strange alien dialogue there's no real difference between any of them but they have enough lines to where you could distinguish them it's almost like they could have been all over the world with their accents you could have had the mega drug cartel guy from mexico the the warlord from africa you could have had the japanese uh like corporate mogul you could have had the american oil tycoon even if you're playing on stereotypes a bit that would have been better to show that this is a very worldly thing people for this is an international organization obviously they know i totally agree with i i agree with mauler that would have been nice if they had conflicting views of what they're there for and what the games yeah because they all seem to be there to to enjoy the suffering and misery and like it would be great if at least one of them was like really there for the sportsmanship or like you said one of the guys is really there to make money based on really investigating all these different characters and trying to make the best possible bet you know things like that exactly yeah okay let's just have them suffer that's fun bro yeah they're all just juvenile losers is how they come across um yeah you never have a go ahead you go ahead oh no i was just basically saying like they all seem to be characterized as how a college student would just portray the one percent that's just kind of their entire kind of yeah in a way like a like a college student from another planet someone suggested why not swap out the fucking shitty detective line for somebody with the vip and i was just thinking imagine we had just go with the the the charles dance one in britain just doing normal businessman things maybe even has a family and we never really quite understand why we're seeing scenes of that here and there in the episodes until he like eventually just heads over to the fucking this this whole thing and we're like yeah this is what he gets up to in his um let's say more his holidays and it would just be a cool disposition potentially that he's a very reasonable fair family man but he's also very interested in this whole thing and he can afford it yeah you have the the american oil tycoon he's just working working working all the time doesn't really have much of a family this is what he does to relax and gamble and let loose this is his thing you have the the african warlord who's in control of kind of like a whole country or area and he's super ferocious and he's a might makes right guy and he wants to see humans at their most primal you know fighting um and he admires that animalistic bestial part of our nature and you have the the the honor maybe the honor it's a little stereotypical but fuck it go for it you have the japanese corporate guy who who he misses the sense of honor that comes with a samurai sword you know yeah he's got a fucking samurai sword on him at all times and he is like oh this corporate world that's so cut thrown back stabby i miss the the the honor code of the samurai there's no you know there's no sportsmanship anymore so i just want to watch these people go at it where it's fair but none of this is in the uh um yeah it's a it really is a shame i would have liked something uh something like that instead one of them makes a 69 joke oh it's not hilarious just doesn't make he doesn't just make a 69 joke he makes a 96 joke too they thought that that shit was so good they did it twice and it's not just the dialogue the fucking delivery is so bad like it's that alien delivery of strange come 69 oh well i guess he's knocked out of the competition yeah you know like it's oh god there's one in particular i i'm getting a little bit ahead of myself but involves one of the games and they're trying to decide whether you know going in the front or going in the back is ideal and we have the main character who's narrating he's in it we're in his head and he goes oh well should i go in the front is that the best strategy or should i go in the back and then it cuts the VIPs and goes well do you think he should go in the front or do you think he should go in the back like well i don't know i think both have their merits it's cringe as fuck it is super cringe to have these characters who just spell all of this out blatantly to one another and these alien inflections no don't do it you idiot you asshole you loser oh it's so bad it's so bad meanwhile if we if you wanted to write like what is the natural 20 you'd look and go oh for fuck's sake and then you'll be like what you know maybe even let them figure it out he just storms off to his seat you know and they'll go oh you probably put a lot of money on that and they go which one 69 and then you can maybe have one of them giggle and then just fucking leave it you know yeah don't have him go 69 come on 69 69 and they all laugh as if it's they all think it's hilarious so fucking a 69 joke that is so fucking high brow i love it man now that's that's fucking hilarious 69 oh that's like the sex thing oh they don't sound real because to go to what you were referencing it's like hmm the start and the finish two places you really don't want to be and then the guys like going first in a life or death contest very scary but recall too but in the first game most of the contestants in the back died after running out of time so our member when i was watching this and i was like thank you thank you so much thank you thank you i get it it's fucking terrible are we gonna blame this on netflix too or i don't know who's fault this is it's somebody's fault i like i think it's a combination of writers and actors the writers wrote for a language they weren't familiar enough with and actors who were or just like we just need a bunch of white dudes find people like people that we can cast in these roles like but sir sir we found just enough but they're all terrible it's too it's it's fun put them in it's fine we only have they made it this far they won't back out of the show exactly they made it okay we're on the guy there we go on the home stretch we'll be fine to make sure we cover it obviously we have jesusman he's doing some praying and he's like please look down on me with pity and forgiveness i pray for those who've sacrificed themselves for me or forgive them as well and he's while he's speaking all this shit it just shows the husband looking pretty damn depressed and um free he's not currently here unfortunately legitimately he's messaged me the storm is fucking messing with his house and he's fixing things oh no holy shit so he might not be able to make it back at all hopefully he's okay and hopefully he's able to make it back but i will say um when they showed jesusman saying all of that while looking at the uh showing rather the um the husbando uh free he just immediately was watching with his like so he's gonna kill himself i was like yeah maybe which evens the numbers out um yeah i'm not sure that that was something they necessarily hope for or not i assume the game would have ran the same either way it would have ran the same yeah i think it was um yeah i don't think they did it for the convenience of having an even number no matter because yeah wouldn't it would not matter for this game so one of the reasons i would want to see that conversation is that part of me is extremely frustrated with him for letting his wife die if he doesn't have the strength to live because i feel like when they're both dying i'm sure you understand human being is complex it might be that now that he's lost to no i know i know i if i was the wife i would be like motherfucker yeah there's a that's that's what i'm getting at i think why i wanted to see that conversation is you could have a very very interesting scene where the wife says for example something along the lines of like honestly if it were me over you i don't know myself and i probably kill myself so it would be better if you survived if you could if you could go on living because there's no sense of both dying you know our family needs the money you know that we've got to get this money we've made it this far you have to do this if we if we don't make it through this and it's all for something instead of he just what we got i guess there's so much there and i'm honestly i'm i i'm upset with him for himself i get i i get i mean i can't really get exactly how awful that would be you know but i i'm frustrated with him for doing that yeah i'm uh 69 i mean i get it i get it i just i get it but i there is an aspect of like man your your wife must be turning over in her ashes right now because boy mm-hmm and so clearly we're loving the vip stuff and so the film is like the show is like hey enjoying the vip stuff let's give you some detective stuff and you're like no i no no no no no see this is where it gets really bad for wait you cut out was that oh this is where it gets frustrating for me because i hate the and the detective stuff well i also think it's the worst yeah i don't think anyone oh yeah easily yeah so quick what'd you say i asked you hate the what and the detective stuff the vip stuff and the detective stuff okay and i was uh by the way i what i said was um it's also my least favorite of all the games uh yeah i hate this game i'm gonna be on it i hate this game well we're almost there so don't worry um so this thing actually started piss me off so this is where in the story the detective i was losing my mind you have three people who are waiters apparently just walking around here he is detective is just around the corner aiming a gun and i was like oh okay that seems really fucking risky of you you just stand in the hallway and hope to grab the next person who reaches you what if they were two yeah this guy doesn't cry out in surprise he doesn't take off running the right person has to come around for you to get him you have to be able to get him to the closet and subdue him quietly which all happens yeah which all happens off-screen that's takes care of that um but also behind you dropping a dude in the closet like that that's a time bomb that's not safe yes exactly um so i was annoyed on both counts and i was just like whatever that's all i should expect from the detective now just huh so anyway back to our characters they uh they bring in a coffin for for husband and the money goes up and they had on their way to the next game and i don't know how to get through these vip sections other than just reading the shitty dialogue the serious betting starts in this round how much are you going to bet i'm doubling my stakes on this round god and it's like okay so it's it's awful but i i still think there's a way you can say it that doesn't sound cringe as fuck i agree i would say like the catalog you know like there's you know you know there's still a chance all the serious betting starts now you know like that's not great but it's better because it's casual we would hope i'm not a voice actor but it's it's so easy to imagine a better way of saying that um horrible dialogue with horrible delivery i would change it all from the ground up completely and the thing is that you already heard my pitch so it's already unfortunate because like if i were writing dialogue for rags you're a billionaire and i'm just gonna write you some dialogue you have to walk in the room and say hello das nice to meet you you i feel like you like do you mind if i punch this up a little bit i'm like no read it has no now i want you to say you don't even know what game this is like how much are you gonna bet i'm doubling my stakes this right it's like god it sounds like fake dialogue wait did we skip over the part where they talk about how like oh this game has been great so far is doing the best oh yeah they said that uh they've liked a lot of the games but the Korean one was the best is that what they said that's what they said with something like that which definitely implies that this is a worldwide phenomenon yeah yeah and the international supposed international bunch of white english-speaking dudes with no accidents who come in but i was like i guess no there was one the idea isn't it the dms oh okay okay he talked like this and he was like this this is vexed i don't know what it is exactly like a rush like a bridge of some sort oh my god it's bigger dude so that was that was i think the best one uh after a lot of the dialogue i remember because i was in a cold drink and he was like okay not liking these vip's and i was like yeah i know and then when they show the actual place he goes it's bigger uh drink was just like shut the fuck up like what are you just ruining it oh they're hard to swallow uh unfortunately for for this show so yeah so it does so i have a question for you and i think this depends on i think this kind of depends on how you interpret the vip's and what they say are these the only vip's watching or there are still more people around the world in different places who are bedding and watching this event i assume well it's um it appears to be televised to some degree because they've been watching up till they showed up live so i have to imagine it's been televised to them and it can't just be for these five terrible assholes it's it's gotta be for more than that and also the i agree but i i could i could see someone interpreting it to be that these are the you uh you're gone what was that god damn it i could see someone interpreting this to be that these are the only vip but it really seems like this is a big network and these are the only ones that happen to come to watch in person i have to imagine that with each season some vip is like i'll skip this one i'll watch it at home but sometimes i'll go out there they can only bring so many i don't know it seems like they could bring more than however what they bring five seems like they could bring quite a whole bit considering this facility but i don't know who knows who knows um one of the things i was wondering was that i would why i i would want if i was a vip i'd want to see them all in person because this sounds like a really big thing that you're probably shelling a crap load of money out to i would want to watch because it's all consecutive in terms of days so i would want to watch all the games in person you know i'd be curious if i'm in the last one i'd be curious as a form of entertainment if the completed sort of broadcasted one is actually better in the because i was curious about how much work they do for it in terms of do they actually show you know there's cameras everywhere like do they show us a lot of like maybe half the episode is just them talking to each other as people in in the room and we get to learn about them and stuff and that they focus on the ones that end up winning or losing or have you know i mean they can watch the end of the the game and be like right from that let's include these conversations beforehand and so it could be a very catered to sort of show compared to watching it live we are just sort of i don't know i feel well this valley and story telling in storytelling wise it would it would give if they were there up in the vip booth or whatever we would be able to learn about the vip's little pieces throughout the episode you wouldn't have to drop much but a little bit here a little bit there the way that they talk to each other we're only operating off of masks and accents right if we include that what could we possibly cut i don't know there's nothing yet there's not there's no other huge swaths of content that's worthless and leads to fucking nothing that we could get rid of all righty i guess we'll leave it but yeah i i vote for that idea that the vip's were here from the get go and we got to learn about them as people who are individually interested in being here and there's some level of fucking interest and payoff to them as characters rather than making them these cartoons which maybe that was intentional but if it is this fucking boring you can make them cartoonish but also interesting and well written but also cartoonish in a sense like play off the stereotypes like i was kind of saying like have one of them be palpatine don't go too far with it yeah like one of them is just fucking palpatine or whatever and the war lord and the you know the mogul the oil tycoon the japanese mogul that you know that kind of thing where you're each one of them views ever like maybe some of them like certain challenges more than other challenges uh like maybe the japanese guy really doesn't like the marvel one because it's more about being underhanded and crafty instead of a more or maybe the war lord hates it because he's he's a lot um yeah something like that you know that would be fascinating and we could explore more deeply the different ideas of what fairness actually is and uh if i can butt into for that point because i'm remembering this and i don't want to forget it one of the things i hate about the vips and how they act is that they seem totally at odds with the front man's thing about fairness yes yes how is the front man seems to be at least they put out the idea that he is very principled in the concept of fairness and giving everyone a shot and the vips that run everything seem to just be a bunch of juvenile losers who want to see people fall off platforms yes in gamble which is like how do you guys coexist from an organizational standpoint like how does how does that work out and they'll come up later when they change the essentially they change the nature of the game when one of them starts figuring it out which is instead of being rewarded is essentially punished and like you think the front man would be fine i i don't know it's it's weird really front man runs vips are in charge someone has pointed out that what did they say seems like the vips are just there to bet well surely if they're interested in betting they would want a fair game because i don't want to get but when for this game in particular there there's an there's something there's an obvious bet vips do that they interfere with the game that anyone who had been betting on that particular character that they interfere with would be like what the fuck i bet on him because i thought he could do well this game and you interfered there's a lot that's not to say but they're actually uh yeah or one of the vips is like i will not gamble on human lives these these people i i don't gamble it's not an honorable thing to do i get on human lives i i'm here purely for the display of honor and the rules and you know there's some aspect of human nature that they value yeah we have to believe they're all clowns basically basically yeah we have to believe they're all a bunch of juvenile clowns written by aliens which doesn't help and one could argue their money just want to say real quick one could argue that the front man's aware of that and that he just wants them here for their money he doesn't necessarily give a fuck about them as personalities yeah but as a guy who is willing to kill people to keep things fair why would he take their money like why would he give that easily well we're gonna have to talk about the whole fairness thing as soon as we can get through the game i just um before we get anywhere closer the line i hate the most in this whole show potentially fucking drives me nuts as a pit as a line of dialogue they're watching them choose the fucking lot of standard of which they will go into the thing right one of the VIP says gentleman this may be the deciding moment it's like yes and then secondly i think the order in which they compete matters most like what there's nothing else like the order they go in that's like the whole thing the only other element you could argue is yeah maybe the ones at the back may run out of time i doubt that's going to be something to worry about compared to choosing the 50 50s you know if i'm bet yeah i'll take my chance with the timer yeah i want to be the last motherfucker in that line so i hate the fact that he's like you know the key thing here is the number they choose like what else is there that is the whole thing that's just oh god it sucks and these people are supposed to be people who've watched loads of games are you kidding me yeah it's telling each other the basic fucking premise of each game like good job oh it's so annoying to listen to they they'd provide nothing but a current stupid fucking dialogue to the commentary and the problem is we've just highlighted how interesting it could be even from introducing a game right being like oh today we're going to be doing honeycomb and you see like three of the seven vip's go yes and the other thought like don't and you're like wonder why and it's indicative of their fucking characters but nope they're all the same they all spout the exact same shitty dialogue to help you understand the stakes of the game which are clear enough without the vip's they're so clear without the goddamn vip's because we get it we get it all from the inner monologue of our main character who's thinking this all through we don't need to hear them say the exact same shit over again yeah and it's like who are you betting on 96 why why that well because and then everyone thinks that's so goddamn funny that is hilarious I do like the mental image of a 96 where it's just two people back to back like trying to figure out how this is a sex position I guess the beast with two fronts that's a pretty high level maneuver right there oh yeah detective managed recording while he's pretending to be a waiter by the way just with mentioning people listening with his phone god I know you know there's there are cartoonish versions of real kinds of people but I feel like the vip's are cartoonish versions of just like a person that I couldn't possibly even kind of imagine you know which makes it doubly unbelievable because they're not playing off of this is this kind of person taken to the extreme a cartoonish extreme but you're like yeah I know this kind of person they're just you know they're just a hyper version of that I think it could maybe work if it was just one of them was like that and then the others were all very much more understandable as people in fact I kind of like the idea that we've got a lot of very much straightforward billionaire characters that have their own interests but like I said with the palpatine thing there's just this one that has like a cloak and he's like whenever someone dies you just feel like just this they sort of don't really acknowledge him because he pays the most or something but they're just like yeah that guy's really fucking weird yeah this is fucking creepy man he's got money he's there entirely for suffering I'm like okay cool that's your thing yeah when you're meant to believe that everyone funding this opera is just there for the suffering it's like wow really I don't believe that yeah there's gotta be more to it yeah I wish yeah this is an extremely roundabout way to watch people suffer yeah you're right um it's very involved and they're mostly boring they uh the their reactions include whoa whoa there goes another one whoa the plot thickens it's like it's like a weird it's like a poorly written CW villain yeah not even a CW villain a poorly written CW villain on the CW writing curve when when adjusted for deflation that is what you get the one in chat said so about the palpitating one he never speaks he only cackles except for one instance where a character dies he just says cringe this is what you could do with that he would be getting his victory royale I would take that in a heartbeat in fact put him in with these guys he'd be way better they're all these weird like people but then it's just the one most dressed all in black who hunched over and just like gets closer to the screen as it goes on puts his hands on it and he's just like die I mean clearly it's too much to ask for these to feel like real people but if they're not going to feel like real people could at least one of them be charismatic oh that would be great wouldn't it just like just someone like throw Idris Elbird there as what are the billy it is I don't I don't mean him specifically because obviously we take a lot of money just a character like that who's just chill comments on how things are but just loves it as a sport like horse racing he's like come on yes oh they fucking ruined it it's just just talking about this stuff meanwhile the rest of the like anyone with charisma anyone with charisma I don't give a fuck who it is at this point bring in Kano oh god yeah why no Idris Elbird Jack Sparrow the Joker just have all of them commentating on it be way more funny that'd be so strange there's a whole bunch of fiction you can have one of or who's who inherited everything he's not even like his own he's just he's the son of a super rich gajillionaire and so he didn't make the money himself so he could be the weird young and wild one who doesn't really care about anything because he's been pampered and spoiled his whole life you know the type you could throw one in there if you needed a young guy and his dad's in it too yeah my dad couldn't make this one so you know I'm coming to take a look and you know that's a that sort of thing you could have a Samyla's type who's with the VIP because they're like the main butler helper person but also they I guess they respected enough that they have like a voice but they're just entirely disturbed by all of it and they struggle to watch sort of thing just having that kind of character there too you have so many options and you didn't do anything so anyway we should probably just carry on with the plot at this point for anybody in chat who's waiting for us to fucking destroy the VIPs that was probably satisfying we just spent off an hour ripping it to him yeah so everyone chooses their position except our main character who's wondering what should he choose 16 or 1 because he has no context for what game they're going to be playing and someone asks him if they can be number one because they've been sort of hiding behind everything and letting everyone make choices for them sort of thing and he'd like to really take charge with this one so if you could just just let me do it and he's like okay turns out that one's 60 and 96 and it cuts the VIP and he's like for what sake no and you're just like okay oh no this is the I've just gotten to the part with this fucking line it's just one of the ways well it's bigger I've got like what did he think it was gonna be like I feel like he's Derek Zulander what is this I'm not this is like aim for ants well yeah it needs to be at least three times this big man and this is the thing that I love the idea of what it can be brought what can be brought to the show with VIPs commenting on it compared to not having that but they just they made it worse it's just like cut it out please please let it go is it possible we can hear one of those lines I guess so let me set that up for the old people at youtube land so bad so we're gonna find another one oh wow it's bigger oh wow it's bigger why guys this is actually a a not this is just a model it's not the real thing is that it's not the meme it's like lal the villain is dumb but it's like no I think you just wrote them really badly I don't think you intended for the dogs it's it's bizarre alien but it's not meant to be fun to answer and most of the contestants in the very strange are running at a time so what is this a library for ants you oh here you go this will be the line you'll need everybody get ready oh boy what oh wait this isn't where are you going oh yeah we'll cut back hang on sorry it's just a bit complicated because I got to avoid copyright while also trying to find these golden fucking lines and yeah you fucking some shit oh it's really nice really nice 369 and now 96 369 and now 96 hey where's where's 420 hee hee hee oh I would I would show you more but obviously it's just hard to avoid copytisms also it's too cringe or cringe our our we're gonna we're gonna overload yeah we wouldn't want to do here pretty soon we don't want that we don't want to take down your cringe fix in your own time so there's plenty of fringe compilations on youtube we will talk about the game I just want to do one more topics we can erase it from the continuity we can be done with it so stupid 6996 guy wants more drinks he notices detective guy has the scotch he's like please keep coming and don't fucking make me call you over sit down and then he's like you know what I want to sex you let's go in private and then if I can puts a gun to him and he's like I'm gonna record you for five minutes explaining everything horrible that goes on here and then he escapes down the ladder gets a scuba gear and tries to escape the island right I know that happens I hate the fact that had fucking stupid VIP not gotten a boner what is his plan we've just been like well I guess I hope I get enough from the recording in this room rather than getting them to explain explicitly everything that's happening here you know what I mean I don't know really did I will say though the explicit explanation that he gets on the cell phone video the fact that he has a gun to his head in the video itself and that he's naked not helpful and see I feel like he could just say this fucking crazy guy told me this weird conspiracy theory he held a gun to my head made me strip down naked and said now repeat back to me the conspiracy theory and so I did yeah I some people saying what I guess there are still people following us here the storyline without knowing so our our detective has through means questionable been able to commandeer a waiter's uniform complete with mask of course and he is serving all of the VIPs as they watch this unfold all the game unfold right one of the VIPs is I got gay or bisexual and he takes a liking to our detective and so even and so he decides that his urge to just have his cock sucked by this random waiter is so goddamn strong right now that he's going to abandon the whole reason he came here to watch this game that he's paying insane amounts of money for because right now he needs to take this waiter over to a side room so that he can get his rocks off and to be fair it is the pinnacle of the game we have like pinnacle five players left or something like that it's like wow in the game itself drama is unfolding they are it is absolutely fucking absurd I am a horny man I'm a horny dog whichever the lore you follow all right and goddamn if that was me on that couch what I'm surrounded by like painted naked chicks and I've got your head and their tits and everything yeah I am sitting on my sofa I've got booze which I cannot handle as much as I want to drink I've spent all of this money on this insane elaborate operation to create these crazy games to have human beings just compete and die for so that I could gamble on it and at the penultimate moment of the game I just I really really want to have sex with this random waiter I I I don't get it's absurd to me absolutely absurd to me the show needed the detective to have the next thing occur for him the show the universe needed to hand the detective the next golden opportunity and so he does he gets him to explain it and then he tries to leave because he's running out of time the VIP is checked on like immediately after the five minutes which I find very odd that someone would be like hey VIP are you okay instead of just being like he's in there having sex I don't know if we should disturb yeah I could totally see that being the case yeah um yeah if I take someone over to the side for sex don't you fucking knock on my door exactly five minutes it's not even big yeah it's not even a five minutes yeah so uh but detective man runs to the VIP control room area goes down the ladder gets the scuba gear and escapes that is his plot line for this episode I'd rather not talk about it anymore we'll wait until next episode he's so annoyed that's fine let's talk about the game itself so game number five stepping stones we'll probably just rip into this game together the the idea is there are 18 panes of double panes of glass one is tempered and one is not per two and so you kind of just have to guess and hope you are on the right one if you're on the wrong one it smashes and the next player will now know which one is the correct one but only for that step so as you can see eventually the last player will be the one that is going to be the most benefited by this though there is indeed a time limit and thus um you you don't want to be caught right at the end and you lose much in the same way you uh green light red light worked yes so who wants to go first for criticisms all right so the there is an element of it is a it is luck it is an element of luck as to which number you choose whereas you know because you have no idea what you're choosing for mm-hmm um not much so like if you were in the first I mean they have to step across a bunch so if you are among the first let's be frank the first 10 11 12 there's only 16 if you're among the first like 10 so remember what I oh remember what I said earlier that if you have a 50 50 chance three getting that correct three in a row is a one in eight chance and then it just gets worse and worse and worse from there the math teacher actually figures out what his odds are and it's something like is it 38,000 or something it's ridiculous yeah something like that and it it is essentially pure chance there doesn't seem to be unless you have an extremely specific background then we'll get to that too you might be able yeah unless you have an extremely specific background this is a luck-based game there is no there there seems to be I mean I guess unless you walk on the metal bars that's my first it is yeah that's what I was thinking so that's what I would be fucking doing what we are definitely missing in this is for just a rule to be like if you attempt to subvert the spirit of this game you will be shot and then you can have one person try it and they get shot that's all you needed to do yeah yeah yeah this is a game of luck and there is and it heavily heavily heavily heavily heavily punishes people who are closest to the front yes and it isn't it is like that all guys game except you can't respawn what's that one called you know what I'm talking about the full guys game we can't respawn do you say it's it's no it's the one where there's a whole bunch of tiles laid out and you have to kind of path and most of the tiles will fall but some won't you know what I'm talking about there's a there's a game and for pummel party I'm Mario party that have those games in them they're dumb yeah I can believe it anyway yeah then it's that's what it reminds me of that's all someone in chat suggests as well so the with the with the poles so you could put your feet in such a way that even if the glass smashes you will have the pressure of the poles and that's that's better chance than nothing and no one tries it secondly and this is something that I think I picked up when I was watching it with drinker I was like could you just roll across the whole thing I know it's awkward but I mean it's a guaranteed life oh yeah absolutely yeah that as well yeah and I think there was there was also another one that I thought of where if you if you have to jump on one you want to jump with your feet near the edges where it's most structurally secure yeah not smack dab in the middle of the glass pane yeah so at least there's a chance that it doesn't break um but everyone just leaps really just cock sure is well maybe not that's not the word but this right into the center of the thing there's no attempt lives are on the line here attempts to subvert the game to save yourself I just feel like they're they're gonna happen and well uh yeah and I almost think that's part of the problem the most interest this game can generate is the you go hey I'm gonna kill you if you don't take my place you're like right meanwhile first game second game even the marbles they felt like they had mechanics to them this one's just I don't fucking know I'm flipping a coin here they were games of skill yeah the first one the first game nice and simple total risk reward management control over your body and being still really great nice and simple the marble game is a subversion and cleverness willingness to go through with a set of rules and organizing that with another player yeah um the uh the the honeycomb one was you know how how little micro strategies of how do you do this you have got a time limit how risky do you want to be but like with this it's just I sure hope you didn't pick a number close to the beginning because you're dead mathematically you're toast which by the way is very different from tug of war where it's like did you not pick a strong team well you're toast like no actually you can win and we saw it happen because they knew how to better use their leverage which is really cool there is a strategic yeah this one is like can you cheat is it cheating to make someone go first it's like I guess it isn't and that's all that's going to happen now and then it happens and you're like okay yeah um yeah this game kind of sucks the only thing I like about it is that is when the thug goes fuck it I'm not going any further you go ahead of me fuck it there is something else that I like what's that but go go ahead finish that was more or less done go ahead oh it's horrible oh yes oh yeah we'll get yeah I didn't want to get too far ahead well yeah well because there's something I seriously fucking hate that happens at the end of this you probably already know what I'm referring to the fact that I said that I do know I think I do know exactly what you're referring to so songwoo figures out immediately that just because we're at the back isn't great because people will start cycling through and then we're going to run out of time I just like that he's commenting specifically on the mechanics of this in terms of his likelihood for survival he doesn't give a fuck about people dying he's just like how do I win this yep I find that satisfying and Jihan is stressing the fuck out and something happens to him that I loved because it happened to me when I was watching it everybody's cycling along and it's his turn to jump on the first platform I couldn't remember which one was the safe one and neither does he I was like fuck and what a nice way of making he has to do a 50-50 chance grab when he's the fucking person who was like the safest in that regard or at least supposed to be I thought it was really neat but the thing I found the neatest about it was that he looks down and then Andrew notices it and she's like it's the right one and it's like for a moment because of the way everything works it's like oh boy and so he makes the jump and it's true it was that one and I think she just turns back she thinks nothing of it but she just saved his life yeah he's like pay attention essentially she says get your she gets she says something to the effect of get your shit together which is yeah yeah I I was a little frustrated with the fact that like when his life is on the line he fucking didn't pay attention but I did enjoy I was glued to this I was watching because I very much enjoyed it first time around it's only when I started thinking about more of it that it started to frustrate me but I had completely forgotten what the first one was because I was focusing on how everything was going and what everything will end up being though to be fair you are shifting around from different perspectives and different drama and he's just true sitting at the back yeah I think there's less of a pay attention to there's less of an excuse for him than there is for you as an audience member I agree with that yeah I think I can still believe he slipped his mind by complete accident though oh yeah maybe he is he's also not the brightest bulb yeah it wouldn't have slipped song woo no yeah I do like the idea that they start filling in after each other so that memory doesn't for most of them even play into it because they just jump on whatever the person in front of them did I feel like that would be what people do but there's yeah I'm running out of nice things to say well I was gonna say that's my main praise this is like character stuff too character stuff callbacks like the marble well we we definitely got at least another one that I like coming up but now we should probably talk about thugs demise yes we should so thug decides after what he's seen he will now force people to take the the steps for him he won't do it himself because why the fuck would he do it for him and so the guy he's talking to I think just talks to him for a while about how this is unfair this is bullshit and he just gets pushed right off by crazy girl who is behind and then we get like a big old showdown crazy girl this is thug man and I guess I should summarize the events and then we can go through what what we hate if you're doing this yeah go ahead go ahead so she jumps on to his platform and she says look I'm not a coward I ain't gonna be letting people die for me whatever I'm gonna make the jump and he's like really and she's like yeah and so she jumps on and then she turns back around to him and grabs she locks her hands at his back grabbing him essentially says that he sucks he's a little bitch and he has a tiny peen and then she leans backwards and they both fall and smash through the the one in front of them revealing the strong of the next one and both of them are out of the game it would be really funny if they landed on tempered glass yes that would have been funny I think they would have both died regardless of the glass that they landed on probably yeah because it would have slid off by half but it would have been funnier and then they would have it would have been funnier because you have to jump from one to the other you can't just fall into it so they probably would have fallen but I when I was watching this I was fucking screaming at the TV to go I don't know like like like lower yourself like like crouched down like the thug all he has to do because she has all the leverage at this point all you have to do is fucking crouched down like slam yourself down lower your center of gravity below hers and then she can't fucking tilt you over like that and I feel like I feel like anyone who's ever I don't know like not not even like wrestled professionally as a sport but just wrestled or tackled anyone or has any sense of the own like physicality and physics of their body would realize that you just need to fucking get below her leverage and it's not incredibly hard to do it she's also incredibly thin and pretty short and to be fair I was surprised you didn't just fucking punch her when she put her arms around him just wail on her face she will almost give you so dazed she won't keep those hands together I mean he beat some of the death earlier yeah that was what was going through my mind I was like you haven't got him he just has to punch you and that's it and besides you leaning back I don't even know that that's enough to make him fall what if he leans back like it feels weird the weight distribution I mean like so I was I was testing this out with my girlfriend because we were watching the show when I was frustrated okay you come up on me and we had a little like a kitchen mat that we were standing on for reference it's like okay you grab me around the waist and hold on really fucking tight and I was like okay it's actually relatively hard to like you know get rid of her grip you know but if you just fucking crouch down like it it negates the whole thing instantly and it just seemed so obvious to me and I have a hard time believing that this fucking guy who seems relatively athletic you know he probably grew up playing sports I would have a hard time believing he didn't can't understand like killing animals or something exactly I have a basic I just I cannot believe that he couldn't get out of this I can't oh I didn't I didn't buy it really I was like okay no um I think for I mean for me generally like I like the idea that she takes them out yeah but I it's the execution they need to play up the idea that she's not stupid she knows that I mean mathematically as far as they have to go with her and within her position she's like I'm just flat out not gonna make it but you know what I can do I can make good on that promise I can kill this fucker and I can let him know it that's something they could have really leaned further into he made a he made the a line earlier about how clingy she was that I don't think they play into but yeah the way that this it's the way that this happens I don't like I like that it the the idea that this needed to be I feel like this just needed to be the conclusion for the two of them is she take she does take him out he betrays her he gets one oh you know she she she does that but it's it's how they have these things occur that I just really don't like yep yep and you know as much as I liked him as a competitor and hated her if she did end up being the one who killed him I'd be okay with it I just hate the way it happens it sucks definitely a little better yeah yeah because you know he screwed her over by lying and not letting her be on the team because she was small and old and weak and whatnot but she's still labeled in the right circumstance I could still you know I could still fuck you over you know when when it comes to balance in a precarious situation I've got what it takes maybe they could have done something where the glass was weak underneath him and she like is on him and she jumps and breaks it or something I don't know it's something but they they needed to really do something different than what they did I agree yeah don't ask me why and don't even expect it to make sense it just be kind of sick if Ali killed him he just he descends from heaven on a winged course yep and he just fucking plows into him and knocks him over yeah the next event well at that point there are four characters left the three you know and some guy who we've really not seen much of it all yeah he's our last he's our last red shirt to go he really is things are things are not looking good for him oh things are not looking if ever there was if ever there was an expiration date on a character but he should look back at them three and be like oh you guys are the big characters everyone's been focusing on you and I feel yeah I feel I feel really bad for him too because I feel he gets sort of screwed over yeah he's fucking one more topic before that just the dialogue again you have now there's a poetic ending for those two El Hath no Fury like a woman scorned another student of the Bard I had no idea actually it's not Shakespeare it's Congrave I like it better when you don't talk couldn't have called that I like it better when they don't talk to you either listening to it no no you said it you said it too much like a human I do think you said it too well honestly comparatively the dialogue is so much what yes completely agreed you see it you're like why why are we do why does it feel like the characters of the fucking bridge are like people that all the people in there are just these weird experimental droids they're just weird saying shit stop it yeah iron's experiments or some shit so um yeah we got we're running low on time here and Song Wu we know him pretty well at this point and so Gloss he's not fucking around you gotta say Gloss man guy in front he's like doing doing a peek doing having a little peek and Song Wu was like move quick and he goes whoa wait wait wait as if as if like don't push me I I used to make Gloss for over 30 years now when I first heard that I think my almost animal brain was like oh really but then I was like I guess when you have 500 people there's probably one in there who's got experience with Gloss that's kind of fine I guess because could that logic also extend to one of them probably going to be a doctor but then I guess you'd you'd be like is it common for doctors to end up in positions of debt I don't know 500 people fine there's a guy with Gloss okay now when I saw that I was like hmm I assume the system works that whatever background you happen to have may be useful to you in the games and that's just how it works turns out no I'm wrong they say oh shit he has a background in Gloss how did I miss that and then all the VIPs of the front bad all say yeah we missed that missed that yep missed that it's like so I assume when you're betting on a contestant you look at their history why wouldn't you it's like if you have it because it makes it sound like that's what they specifically use to guess it so apart from the guy went for 69 because lol um so how do you miss that you're betting millions on on a guy 30 years being a Gloss maker person like how how could you possibly miss that it's like if the contest was taming alligators and Steve Irwin was a contestant and he's like oh shit I missed his background I didn't notice ah dang ah man how about that he seems like it would be the main so in all fairness to the show I won't count this against the show too much where the the one of the last guys left was a dude with a with his background because I think he'd be used to I think he'd be used to paint at this point so it makes sense he got this point absolutely beautiful so I like that what I hoped to just just highlight I just think it's absurd that that's his entire almost his entire background 30 fucking years that's going to be the bullet point primary thing for this guy you he worked in it's almost comical yeah you know like how specific like oh yes I was a glasspane manufacturer for 30 years I'm like wow this is the game for you what else would they know about his backstory like what exactly like like what would they be reading that is so much more interesting than that how would that not come up if you want to know who to bet on you know like there's this guy called song woo I'd be like yeah okay he seems to be a decent age seems to be athletic to at least a decent degree got a decent head on him but what what's his history where did he work he's like where did he work why do you care about that like oh I don't know I feel like that's the first thing you might ask yeah but okay everyone missed it and then so that's the thing I was getting thrown off and I was like huh how does this is that a bad thing then is that is that cheating whatever but the the VIPs and the front man agree they'll turn off the lights so we can't use the reflection of the light to benefit him in picking the glass which his hopes are the only thing that are shattered I don't like at this point I was just kind of lost I was like wait but you can just do that oh he's he's figuring out the game which is I thought kind of the point was to see who figures it out we're going to actively just fucking take that away from you right now so because we want it to go back to the 5050 choice because that's fun according to his file he once had a job as a glass manufacturer for 30 years man maybe he made some like soybean investments or something that were really exciting in his profile that I don't know who not maybe he had mixed up with a gang he had 604 wives he's like whoa he's like also he's a glass and I'll mention imagine you are a VIP whether you're in this room or you're abroad and you're betting on these games and you see this guy and you think early on you think okay he has some very strong technical skills maybe I'll vote on him because you know yeah it was a skilled laborer for many years and then this competition arises you don't know the competitions beforehand but you see a game where they have to judge glass panels and you go holy fuck I bet my money on this guy he's got the perfect set of skills this is great I like oh my god that was such a good bet I'm fucking loving it and they go nah fuck it let's fuck with them I voted on 69 man you looked like you would be livid you would be livid with them for absolutely competition against them why the you change the rules midway through and I I think I have another oh oh fuck this was in my notes I don't like it that um I don't like it at the very beginning when they're choosing the vests a couple choose their vests right and then the announcer gives extra information that the vest numbers will determine your order in the game yeah yes yep doesn't seem fair so the people who chose at the beginning yeah the people who chose a little quick relatively fuck them they don't get that information that the indecisive people don't get or that did get so okay sucks to be you mm-hmm yeah this this one fucks with a lot of how I perceived how things worked yep and it felt really arbitrary because this game's a little bit I think it was hard for them to make this game into something that has payoffs in it without fucking with it and making it fucking in general maybe the game was totally yeah they wanted all these payoffs how do we build build a game that's purely about making those payoffs possible so they turn the lights off and he can't tell anymore I cannot believe they actively sabotage him because he happens to have a skill set that makes his chances of winning this game a little bit better than luck it just makes sense to me all the people who knew the honeycomb game compared to all people who didn't and then they knew what shaped like that's how unfair is that or knowing the secret tricks to how to win tug of war when most people exactly how is that any different it's not and so there are theories there's like well that's the point it's not fair it's kind of arbitrary and that the elites are just fucking with the the lower classes as they figure things out and so I was like that sounds like a cop out to me yeah that doesn't sound like social commentary also but yeah it doesn't make sense in the universe of the game and what they're there to do it doesn't match up I wouldn't find this satisfying if I was watching as a VIP I'd be like oh neat that guy's actually figuring it out because he can tell that and this one goes nah fuck that I'd be like oh okay geez fine I guess he didn't get to do that yeah and so then yeah all of a sudden he's a glass half empty sort of guy you could say and he has to do the oh another thing every single one of them takes off their shoes every single one of them I think that was supposed that was what they're supposed to do they were told oh were they supposed to yeah yeah okay all right I got I wondered about that so two things right do they have any buttons on their outfits I can't remember no they have a zipper I think but I was thinking you could you know how he needs more than one marble I was like maybe if they threw the shoes but obviously that none of them have them and then I was like do they have anything on their person that could be because a button would be perfect I assume earrings or no piercings of any kind though that might hurt depending on someone could pull out a tooth no glass that would be interesting any of you got a loose tooth yeah I mean it's a bit extreme but you have to remember their lives are on the line so those things there's not a huge amount of time to think about it and I don't know how you guys felt about it but I quite like the lights go out there's I think we're less than a minute left and I think the guy is like wait I think I can figure this out and then Sungwoo's already jumped onto his platform and just pushes him off yeah he's like I'll like I'll choose for you or something like that and he pushes him yeah um and it's just Ian's realization that Sungwoo's really got off the deep end at this point I don't even know I mean I don't think it's I don't think it's an insane yeah I don't if with the time because they make it at the last second so this is why this is what I find interesting about the show that I find is often missed because so many people want to talk about the politics or missed because a lot of people sign Sungwoo off as evil and that's it um it's entirely in line with what we've seen up to this point there's a reason why the turning the lights off doesn't just affect the game narratively but look at that fucking shot it's just like geez yeah uh and yeah just saying I can't tell what it is like I'll pick okay and it's not and it makes sense that he would do that you know like like you said rags like they're very close to running out of time but it is interesting because this is the first time he actually has to get his hands dirty yeah he actually he has to push him well that's the thing Ali he tricked him and he didn't even yeah yeah there's a physicality that this one has this is the next step the next step is doing it yourself with your own hands so I think yeah quite quite beautiful game one he's helping someone because as far as he knows that's just the thing to do game two he's like I might just try and sabotage people the weaker ones game three yeah I am not accepting weak people into my team I know that they may end up dead as a result that's just that's the way it works okay no I might end up dead as a result yeah exactly game four he actively he's lost or at least as far as he's concerned he's lost but he manipulates his way into a victory and he gets a good man killed as a result uh by tricking him game five he pushes a man to his death game six he is forced to battle a man to the death or at least that's what he engages in I think is a wonderful progression I agree yep yeah it is yeah it is a well-built progression and a lot of it like it's easy to make him out as villainous but I mean it was a reality like these and yeah there is a reality do you just say oh well I guess Ali's gonna have all my marbles and I die like well lasted like not this guy and they are really they just make it like to the edge by the way we'll talk about what happens after that sorry what yeah I yeah I was I was agreeing yeah it's like I said that remember when you think of this they barely made it in time so and that's we'll talk about their argument next episode because I think it's it represents both sides very well that the discussion I have but yes there is one more element to this before we can continue to talk about everything I think most people find this baffling they're like you've reached zero every pain of gloss explodes like upwards excuse me this one shocked me I was yes I was completely I had no first off the mechanism that this happens yeah no fucking clue not even going to get into how this happens how they've made this happen other than magic um the C4 slow slow sequence that takes like 30 seconds to happen yeah stylish by the way in this episode we get is it our first slow mo no I don't remember they've done slow mo a fair bit but like I think it was I mean slow mo during game one yeah when he slipped in the first episode they did slow mo oh yeah yeah they did slow mo when it's like fly me to the moon okay okay I got you I got you because I was I was just I was about to say the whole time this is happening in slow motion you go why the fuck blowed like that and you're just sitting in that thought for like 30 seconds it doesn't know why though because originally I was thinking so is this so that in case they don't make it across this is what happens to ensure but it's like this is a really weird roundabout way of doing that and when they could just tilt or they shoot them the yeah or just shoot them or the the the red bars rotate so that the they break or they or they just turn to the side and they just fall or if you want the explosion and they just blow up down they explode upwards into the whole like what what the fuck is this you just wanted a thing what thing did you well yeah you're right yeah this is when we have whenever we come across this is like almost a writing lesson for criticism chatarunis whenever something really fucking weird happens that you have no way of explaining what does it cause that's the way to figure out why this happened yeah I really hate what this causes too yeah we've sort of seen enough I guess like stuff movies and shows and things where we're kind of on the lookout for that what did they want to happen this is just their way of getting a thing that they wanted what is that someone said they wanted a cool shot I guess no no no no they they didn't want that they wanted a little more I'm willing to believe they wanted a cool shot too but it's uh the debt there's more than that in fitness that's from a person who I don't even know seen the show I think he's just we will tell you what this causes do not worry yeah that's fair not an insult to your intelligence but what it causes is infuriating significant and frustrating in in the couple ways uh and someone said there are explosives that can be embedded in glass and crystal I'm not I'm not even I'm willing to that part doesn't annoy me as much as the fact that it happened at all sure yeah it's definitely the issue that had happened at all but yeah we find I like Andrew so much I was rooting for her more than anyone else and it's just like well so fuck that's how she's sabotaged we will talk glass we're almost there I just want to give the results of this scene which is Sangwoo gets a bit of glass crosses face they'll scram Gi-han gets one in his face and his arm and then all we see of good old Andrew is she like is like but they don't show anything I'm like oh dear well she looks down and she kind of gasps and looks back up yeah so very clearly I know how stories work exactly now if that happened she's got a fucking slab of glass inside her chest basically barely if that's possible you could have wiped out all three of them why would you do this what a stupid fucking ending to your game absolutely yeah you could it killed one of them remember it almost killed all of them two of them that got grazed on the face like if if their head was turned in a different way that could have been the back of their neck well blew other eyes out yeah two of them almost got killed and one of them essentially did get killed by it yeah I'm when they made it across they won the game so now I'm imagining a scene where that actually does end up killing all three of them the VRGC the fuck this was one of the best versions of the game wow what are you guys doing yeah I think they would feel like a feedback a feedback card being like can we not do this stupid fucking pain game whatever the fuck and you just know that based based on how the VIPs are characterized they would all go yeah death so it's like you know there's no controversy here so terrible so as someone's put in chat which I'm going to argue for heavily they didn't even need the glass exploding to achieve her death no they did not no it was just a fucking weird thing that happens all right let's get the stupid detective thing out of the way first before we talk about the interesting part of this episode so here it is he goes just to some other part of I don't know if he's on a different island is that the idea or is he going to to like it's like a cliff on the island there's only with the one island I thought he got to a different island yeah I thought he got to a different island how he swam how scuba gear yeah he swam he swam with his no I thought he came back because they come to find him on the turn no I thought they didn't they chase him there no I thought he went to a different island plus I thought the island they were on was all like green and everything yeah this one was more rocky and this one looked more temperate yeah maybe I interpreted it as the same island the point is he escapes the boat that's tracking him we don't need to what I'm so done with the detective storyline we're so close to now having to talk about him again um so he gets his phone out and he's looking for signals he starts running I'm just gonna skip past the actual episode and just get to all those bits first so he's run relatively high up and he's finally got one bar so he tries to call his office the signal's not great and he's just watching the fucking Squidwoods come toward him he's not running it drives me nuts it's like look at them they're getting closer and he's just like time to do my call it's like move walk and talk buddy you can walk and talk it's possible yes walk and talk hit send and throw that phone somewhere or hide it or that phone is everything none of this will matter if that phone doesn't get out also he also talks rather loudly he does memory serves he's not he's not whispering there are many directions he could have gone we have to assume that the Squidpeople were able to track where he went I guess I know it's not impossible I'm just saying that that's a particular skill set you need to know which direction he went but they do they and they follow him directly until very frustrating oh god I've managed to skip past this really dumb part yeah he's on his phone sending messages video whatever he's just trying to get them all re-uploaded because some of them like fail and then he looks out into the distance and they spot him it's like how can you be this incompetent just just for reference chat right this is Squidman his luck ran out Squidman and there's the detective just standing right they're looking at them and he's like oh no you have seen me yeah I see you just to remind us the most intelligent fucking detective ever you know yeah luckiest too so upsetting to watch like I I would have loved an intelligent hardened veteran detective man would have been so cool yes I love detective stories and I'm so interested in someone from the outside trying to undermine and catch the people doing all this bullshit I want to see that so very badly but this guy fucking blows sucks yes he does so they eventually chase him to the end edge of a cliff and he pulls his gun on them and then he's like Korean standard is three bullets one blank and two empty cartridges I think someone like that so he's used two he's only got one shot left so a blank could annoy he could blast in someone's face and be like he could blind them and he'd be winching like a big gay baby I know what you're referencing fucking top-notch movie so the yeah frontman's like hey man come back with us just chill and this is this is a chat everything we've described to you about the detective story you're gonna you're so excited I can see it in your eyes you're just like oof what is the big reveal here something's happening here frontman I think he gets shot first I don't even remember I don't really care to be honest with you frontman reveals that he was his brother all along I have so many questions um I don't even know why I should give a fuck I I I figured that out by episode four I believe it's like the only thing that can happen like what else can happen what can a reveal be at this point it's just like I don't know he's his brother you're like okay and and like the meaning from this is man turns out his brother won a game and then became a part of the machine okay whoa I don't even know who his brother is like I don't know anything about these people I barely even know the detective what was the point what was all this yeah oh I was baffled I was just like is this you sit are they keep dragging me away from the last three characters figuring out how is everything going to turn out with it like why why do you keep distracting me with this fucking nonsense he's like oh brother come with me brother don't don't be out here that he's like I can't come with you brother and he's like okay bye and shoot somebody falls off cliff I'm just like right great uh great I mean I I am legitimately curious and interested why the front man is the way he is and what doing here and how this all makes sense but they don't do any of it as far as we know I mean there's gonna be another season I'm sure so the only fuck gonna make it better they'll make it worse the only way to make use of all of this bullshit is in a season two theoretically because it doesn't nothing fucking with while happens here but for this yeah I'm back is he dead yet rags give us your review of the completed storyline of the detective all right so I so I assume you've discussed it all and it's done now he did it says brother what is his brother the whole time rags oh my goodness gracious wow okay so moving on I was really fucking what this is all heading towards a payoff all of this time all this bullshit it's just leading towards something all of his stupidity all of his everything it is taking us to one point in time a conclusion it's all leading up to this there's I I thought like as as he was tilting off that cliff as he was getting it was he was he didn't shoot the dude in the fucking vital spot idiot cop but he when he gets when he gets shot by the thug or the the face man he falls back and he's got the phone in his hand and like he sends it as he's dying or it completes as he's dying he was just stalling for time and it gets sent out something happens but here's the thing that here's the subversion is that nothing happens he just fucking gets killed and that's it right they shoot over the shoulder they're obviously gonna bring it back that I bet you were expecting something interest something I was expecting fucking something but like nothing comes of this and like I don't care about seeing the front man's face I don't care that he's the brother I don't care about this just nothing we don't get anything for this and it's yeah it's unreal on a second watch through the every fucking detective scene is all leading to I'm looking for my bro my bro is the bad guy oh darn that's it also I mean like I guess all of the hundreds of people dying I guess too but yeah also this and if he and here's the thing if he ends up surviving and reappearing later I'm just like I mean yeah sure technically I didn't see a body but motherfucker looked over the cliff down below so what in chat said it's not like this well oiled well funded elite organization would confirm the kill down there Garret fucking TUE comes back in season two and it won't make sense he's just gonna be like I'm back baby what's funny about this is like oh he's dead that's really fucking annoying he's alive he's gonna be really fucking annoying exactly there's we don't win here this was all a waste it is so disappointing and it's just it's it's amazing he sets up the call with the chief he's got the files that are sent but oh the signal here is not very good it's gonna take time that's our ticking clock and he's running away even if he dies he's gonna send it off just in time it's gonna be a little bit now a little bit cliche but you know what that's fine because he'll be dead and they'll be over and at least he'll have done something that affects the plot in some way imagine and it happens we don't fuck around with his brother bullshit instead he's just like he thinks he's safe he's right at the top of the cliff it's it like the the bar hits 100% and then it splattered in blood and the camera just pans up and he's been shot in the head and then he just falls off the clip and dies yeah and then the phone falls on the ground and then we see as an audience the camera pans over and it says delivered and then you have next season a veteran fucking detective uses that information then his brother comes to find out what happens he comes from a long line of cop brothers and the next brother takes his place it'll be like Korean saving Private Ryan he's gone it's done it was worthless it was annoying and the funny thing is it's not like dare I say wasted potential yes but at the same time it was never a good plot line it starts bad the middle's bad it ends bad this it was all shit they never like it's only it's only good in concept nothing about the yeah yeah is there a is there a trope name for the type of character that like has to be the one to tell the backstory because the main character can't because I because I was calling this guy detective fanning for a reason there's a movie called collateral with Tom Cruise and Jamie Fox and there's a detective that follows their case and he's getting the story out going on and everything like that he comes to figure it out he comes to save the protagonist and then he gets killed and then that's the end of his story and detective fanning's entire thing was that he was figuring the story out so I imagine this can't be just like used sparingly this has to have been used before so I have to wonder if there's a trope name for this it can't be just a plot device character right I don't even know what their goal with him was I don't know I'm assuming it has to have been just to expose yeah it has to have been just to reveal what's going on in the background because the main character can't he's stuck in the game and he can't get out so they have to use another character to tell the story frontman will probably be a character in season two and he'll be constantly sad about having to kill his brother he'll be haunted by it and then his brother will actually come back so he didn't actually die and they didn't check for body and he was shot in the shoulder which means he's immune to death because that's how movies do shit couldn't bleed out get infected or struggle with swimming when you got shot in the shoulder no seh all off the cliff again yeah there's a long list of things that could have killed them I fucking craps ate them I don't know for real legitimately I want to understand frontman as a character but I don't trust them to do it well I don't want a season two I don't want a season two either they're gonna ruin me I want to appreciate what we got that was really really legitimately wonderful and I just want to yeah this is another the suicide squad where the plot is nonsense and the detective is Harley like go away and the detective is Harley exactly but damn we get some great legitimately grade A plus character stuff and some awesome writing that makes it worth it but a that's a good analogy the detective is Harley I I agree so yeah we don't have to talk about some of their favor and then it leads to nothing yeah we don't have to talk about the detective ever again it's done hooray for now legit when he gets shot I see it is like oh thank fuck he's done and I can't say I was ever even particularly bothered by the fact that he got shot down like I'm all like I'm all right with it it was just that the journey throughout was the problem yeah I yeah he should have got shot way sooner and the thing too is you normally have you don't have those scenes with like like they're up on the top of the cliff right he he ran out of cliff and they caught up with him I guess okay whatever and so you have him at his backs to the cliff and all of the squid squad are there and they have their guns and then you have the front man and they're all they're they're like they all bring up their guns towards him and then he's got his like he's got the phone in his hand right and he's got his his his it's downloading or he's got his finger above it and they don't know could they don't the phone can do but they don't know quite yet and then the front man's like no he's like no no put your guns down you know that thing that they do like no no lower your guns and then they have the brother brother they do nothing nothing of interest happens here no this is a totally wasted payoff in every regard so I'm looking at the stream right now and I can't help an otherwise empty room filled with nothing but the diagrams of all the games they're playing and why the fuck doesn't anyone acknowledge it especially when the sixth game is on the wall as well yes fucking look at the look at these shots look at these shots look at all the games why doesn't I know man so anyway it would be interesting if the characters like you legitimately couldn't see it because of the bed placement and that was by design of the people who run the game so then as beds go away but they're like bolted to the floor they physically can't move them or something so they know about the things on the wall and as the games progress and less players are around they see more and more of the things and they try to piece like it could be a clue that they all work to piece together they can only see parts of the drawings there's something that really annoys me I saw a couple articles about this eagle eyed viewers this easter egg it's like really eagle eyed viewers hey eagle eyed viewers at home can you spot anything about this room it's gonna be difficult but you know that if you were stuck in a room for like a week you might be very intimately familiar with that room not the characters in this show nope yeah there's no yeah it would have been cool to have them acknowledge it and you could have done something with it but to be fair probably would have just not had it myself because it's hard to justify them not either seeing it yeah just get rid of them it's an easy choice just get rid of the designs it adds nothing it only subtracts from the intelligence of all the characters just get rid of them so next up we get what a conversation I love between Sungwoo and Gihan basically like sort of doing an audit of what the fuck just happened meanwhile Andrew is bleeding to death in the background and nobody's checking in on that basically the argument starts out with just why'd you push that guy and then he's like I guess you forgot being that you were lost in line how things fucking work and um obviously I would imagine he's referring to the fact that this is just how the fuck it's gonna happen either I jump in his place and die or I push him on and he dies and gives us the space it's fucking hard but that's your choice you make the choice gotta be the one to make this decision yeah you didn't have to you were in the back you were in a very passive role during this thing but I had to be the one to act you're welcome by the way exactly and so Sungwoo is basically at the point now where I think he's too fucking tired to have to justify or hide it the truth is you gotta be ruthless to survive here and I think the explanation is fantastic in terms of like an airtight argument but then Gihan says one thing that kind of fucks with it which is what if I was on that platform it's like because it gets a little bit harder to just outright say like yeah I would have pushed you bitch if he's trying to argue like as these are what these are decisions they have to make and he says like you know time was being wasted who knows what would have happened and Gihan is arguing like you know he would have done it he would have jumped and he's like you can't fucking know that especially with one minute left it's all less than that and then of course he says he let everyone else die that guy like evidence to point to that he wouldn't have made the jump himself but the guy himself said he only did that because everyone else would have killed him if they had the chance sort of thing it's just all this backstabbery and paranoia causing people to make decisions that maybe they wouldn't normally and yeah and then he reminds him the only reason that they even survived as long as they did is because he could tell the difference and then Sungwoo says I'm the reason that I'm here and that he's willing to do it it's just the core differences between these people at this point and he's like you killed someone and then the subtitles say his bullet is in your hands is that on purpose or is that I noticed that too maybe it's a like a Korean euphemism like a bullet's used to kill people so his bullet there's a bullet with your name on it so like you know so I picked up what they were saying but I think that's an interesting yeah I was just curious if that was the correct translation or not so I wasn't sure but I could yeah I could buy it yeah just saying that he basically done did a murder and then he's like we gotta be killing everyone if we want that money which gives you the information for episode three I think he did believe that everyone has to die to get the money that's why I think it could support that he was actually okay with Jihan dying as well Jihan he avoids the question and then just kind of yells at him well it's great because it's not something he's willing to say a lot right now I don't think he's willing to say that he's gonna kill him just yet because yeah and then he just fucking tears into him for that question it's a complete non sequitur he's like fuck you you suck you're pathetic you're useless it's like okay that's not what I asked you this is a problem but you answer these you ask these kinds of questions this is your issue yeah and Jihan comes back with oh yeah I'm a loser well you're in the same fucking boat as me idiot you you think you're so fucking great you're here with me the thing that he was been praising him for for me over the course of many episodes is now something that he's using to mock him that I think that's my favorite line in the whole show it's really really good yeah like oh you're you're so you're such and such from such and such and you oh you're the smart guy and everyone knows you and you're from a little neighborhood and you made it big and you went to the big fancy college and here you are stuck in here with us stuck with an idiot like me bitch is it my fault that you're here which by the way gave me big galaxy brain think about some of the points the show is making if you tie that back to when he said I was taking him to school that got him into SNU like is it my fault in a way that you're here consequentially like my efforts to get you to school led to you getting there being smart enough to rise enough to then make the bets that you made and fail and get up into here could it be because I don't know if you guys have noticed but like we're gonna have to maybe talk on this a little bit when we get there but just how much is it the system versus how much it is as your choices as an individual is it Sung Woo's fault that he ended up gambling away everything or was that just the life he was given by the choices other people made to do different things to raise him and put him in different positions right because of all good old consequentialism one thing one thing I do like is that it seems to be a mixture of both I think so and it yeah it's it's not a system that is being blamed it's just this is it's almost like this is just an inevitability of life this is just how life there are always be downtrodden there will always be people who need help there will always be people who have rough lives and as we'll learn in our final episode you know I guess the ultimate moral which is I guess nothing fancy or complicated it doesn't need to be but it's not like people who watch this and think it's a critique of capitalism that's like a that's a really shallow take on it this is a game that could take place under any economic system that money doesn't even necessarily have to exist it's just there are haves and there are have nots there are people who because of them it might be their fault it might not be their fault they could be victims of circumstance there will always be people who need help whether it be help from them they need to be safe from themselves or they need outside help or they just need money or they just need something there's always going to be that kind of person in a society and if you have if you have things what are you going to do about it and yeah I get bored if you summarize a show like this as well it's clearly saying there's flaws in capitalism and if you're like okay we're just saying a hell of a lot more than just that yeah it is that is a baby brain take and you can be critical of capitalism while also saying it's the best we're gonna get for now like in terms of a system which I find interesting in terms of like I'm I'm totally preferably not that much in terms of our media discussions we try to necessarily avoid like definitive discussions on which political system is the best but at the same time this show is definitely used as opposed to child to say you see not only is capitalism bad but the people who like capitalism and enjoy this are having a lot of trouble are they and I've just said you're like oh man what appealed to me and this is the the commentary on human nature not the system might present more opportunities for the nature to be corrupted but I still think that would just be more so a critique of where regulation should exist because anything unfettered can lead to disaster any political system we know this this is very obvious this could yeah this story could occur under a socialist government it could occur in a feudalist society that's it's more human nature than anything else it's just framed in a world the world that exists today which is everyone's every successful nation's a capitalist country so I I totally agree and I I also resent everyone trying to pin something like this into their like the ideological worldview and their team and their camp believe it at all because I had this same problem I had this same problem with parasite because I watched parasite and I'm like oh this is a really interesting movie and everyone's like it's about how capitalism is evil I'm like what fucking movie did you know no way is it that capitalism's evil I think it's never gonna be that simple I don't think any any story could be that great if you was simply going capitalism evil all right go home I'm like okay yeah who the good people in parasite are and who the bad people are exactly you're like this is this is a very strange critique on capitalism and that's what this movie is another same time I watched parasite I I watched parasite I was in the theater and I was watching it wow I feel like a lot of people aren't gonna be happy with the fact that the poor people are the villains and then I and then I watch reviews and they're like it's really about how capitalism is evil what wow what movie did you watch I'm a big fan of personal responsibility in a lot of environments and scenarios and I don't like it getting pulled away to the nth degree where everything anyone does is a result of the system they're in I think that's yes great a horseshit at the same time I understand that a system is going to have a huge influence on the life that you live um and so I find it all I find the discussion much more interesting and thorough than any simple line and I find it just as cringe when someone says squid game is a critique of communism it's like all right like come on another one yeah yeah I would yeah because I think some people might be expecting us to do some kind of bigger breakdown than that but I think that's probably as far as we're gonna go I would way prefer to talk about the fundamentals of humanity from this show rather than does it line up with critiquing this one or this one more or does it not at all I'm just like that's fine besides you can find extensive does this agree with my politics or not you can find extensive stuff like that all over the internet we here are more concerned with the consistency of the characters the plot the world and we haven't even I think we're we're getting close now we'll probably do a summary of the um the world building very soon um but yeah their conversation fills out very uncomfortably meanwhile Andrew is trying to pull the glass out of yourself and get a bandage going and you have to ask yourself at this point the squid people not give a fuck are they just gonna let it die I assume yeah at which point because it's okay if one of them dies but not we gotta have two at the end but it's the luck of the explosion but when is the I mean I feel if I was there if I was a VIP I would want as many contestants in the games as possible well so I can't really see much of a difference with what happens to her then with that nighttime one of the squid people just enters the room and just puts a knife in your chest and walks out you're like oh okay yeah with the contestants I can see something there but when it's the fucking show that did it to her when she won the game that just seems shit yeah it seems very against the spirit of the game I also have a hard time believing absolutely of the VIP either in the room or abroad wouldn't have bet on her she was a very strong character and so it's like is no one upset at the fact that the game fucked her over and they didn't the awful design of the glass breaking yeah yeah because there's no difference between at the end of the platform one of the squid squad comes out and just shoots one of them at random dead yeah um so the because this episode is a little bit of a almost like um a checkpoint it feels like the next episode the one before with the big events this one is like a sort of connecting piece but one big thing happens in this one and where are we getting there they are given is this episode eight yeah is this the one that's only a half an hour for some reason yes which means guys we've got about an hour and 20 minutes the show left and we're at nine hours so hopefully we can get this before we hit the cap uh do it do it so they yeah they they have a big meal of the remaining three and they just digging in while kind of looking at each other and I think at one point is an effort to eat food faster between Song Wu and Gihun is like they're just both like yum yum yum yum and then she's just awkwardly slowly chopping into her food she's already gonna be going faint I'd imagine I'm skipping past everything to do with the detective now like satisfying as fuck and then they pull away everything except leaving them all a knife and by the way when I was first watching this my irrational brain was like is this the final game everyone just has a knife in this room and then my brain was like squid game idiot and I was like oh yeah I guess I'm like so what's the deal here are they expected to just hang on to these I guess until tomorrow and if they and I guess another thing if the final game is squid game how do they have to engineer a way that only two people are left by the final game that's the big question if she hadn't been hit by a bit of glass and those two are stuck together throughout the night to make sure Song Wu doesn't kill them what happens you can't play squid game 2v1 that's fucking bullshit you would what you would have to do is you would have to you'd want to get the games that would eliminate the most people probably out first you have to decide okay how many games are we going to do we're going to do either six or seven or eight depending on contestants you have like a number of plans that take these things into consideration so that because some games will eliminate half like okay that's really useful some games will eliminate you don't know exactly how many you probably have some research because you've been doing this enough that's generally it'll yeah but so you would have to know that okay that's that we we keep doing games until there's a certain amount then we start picking the games so that we can get the numbers that we need but yeah it doesn't seem to be the case with this and what if you get to the glass glass walkway and there's only six people they're just not making it you've just made it mathematically impossible essentially for them to get across you're just fucked yeah yep um more than remember the kids playing squid game in the beginning more than one person not sure yeah but it has to be even numbers I thought that the whole point is it's even yeah the team game the team game squid game anything goes they could easily play two on one okay I'm not saying it is impossible to play that game two on one I am saying what the fuck is the point the two people win every time yeah except for you that seems like a game where clearly I actually don't think you can play 2v1 well what I'm saying you can play 2v1 chess but like you know why yeah okay yeah um I so if they're defending as two against one it's just incredibly unfair and if they're attacking they're done they make one person busy with them the other person just does the win so yeah I don't know yeah doesn't I think the beginning game in um in the game was 3v3 of what we saw in the first episode um anyway Gihan talks to their if all three made it to squid game and then they would have to fight and she would just win because she didn't have a partner to play with there you go yeah these are these are important questions considering the importance of the games in the plot like this isn't a nitpick this is a serious kind of yeah you wonder how did you wonder how the show engineered this to be the case and then you're like oh yeah random exploding glass okay well um well uh as some people suggest there is a chance here that they may have announced to them the game the last game cannot begin until one of you is dead it could literally just be like out of three of you you've got to kill one and then we can play the last game it could be that they're that harsh but we never find out what they would have done yeah and when you give people knives knife fights are fucking ferocious and terrible and everyone dies because knives are quick and lethal um yeah and if someone gets close enough to stab you you can probably stab them you're probably both going to stab each other is what's going to happen and both of you will have knife wounds and you might be in literally no condition to fight in the next game what to be lame to the vip's if you have just two people who need like three months of bed rest to recover trying to fight or yeah they just bleed out or like there's not a gun with a bullet in it you know like something like that something dare I say clever there's just exploding glass that takes care of that um but yeah so yeah they they have a little discussion about the the future reassuring her he's definitely not going to hurt her and just what he plans to do with the money um it's a nice clean conversation she talks about the plans for her family and then uh Gi-han realizes the song was falling asleep to the point where he's even dropped his knife and so he's like I'ma go get him though it does it does annoy me that he promises to her she says promise me you'll you know if you win you'll take care of like promise me and then he just doesn't say anything and notices that he is falling asleep and dropped his knife and so he goes to attack him it's like would it knowing that eventually he does right thing for the brother it's like what did it kill you to just say yeah I promise something like that was on purpose though it's a moment of him taking the chance to murder somebody instead of talking about how he's gonna take care of somebody yeah I don't know it felt felt like a dick move a little bit well this is the thing Gi-han is going through some some signifitisms right now to the point where she convinces him that he's not the person that would kill Song-a-woo which I found particularly moving um and yeah she's the vibe would the vibe seemed to be that he was barely a little he was barely what sorry he was just barely listening to her because he was so focused on whether the other guy had fallen asleep yet I would imagine he may or may not have actually heard what she was saying but ultimately values Song-a-woo sleeping as the ultimate fucking thing right now that's like yeah just trumped everything else and yeah then we have so she's basically fainting and he sees that she's covered in blood from the glass he goes off and bashes the door and um they do a review I've spoken to a couple people about this so if you look when the lights come on I don't know logistically if this fucking works man I'll try and show you guys when you see it um but when the lights come on and the door's open right a lot of people assume it's like oh it's going to be a coffin oh no the thing is the lights come on and this is what he does a full 360 right and I'm like wait a minute so he should be able to see what's happened right um we'll we'll get another view in a second I'll show you to kind of make it make sense but yeah of course it's revealed she's dead is basically the point and these people are coming for the for the coffin the roid frame I'm looking for here right there you go so he's pretty much in the same position and looks the same way and look at that view I don't understand what he didn't see the first time you know what I mean like he looks over he sees that I agree like what's going on there's like all of the cut all he had to do was make him not turn around it's just awkward because I was like wait shouldn't he have seen it already I agree you know what this reminds me of it's very very simple where she's looking out the window and she sees Michael Meyer you know with the laundry out on the line and then she doesn't look away and then we cut back out there and he's gone and she's like where did he go it's like you were looking at him the whole time yeah they do that in a lot of the Halloween it fucking annoys me I brought this up with other horror movies when they cut it so that we're staring at their face and then they cut back at his guys like that didn't make any sense what was their view well this will be timely remember at the beginning of Van Helsing when Dracula teleports and Dr. Frankenstein like does a double take yes because like the movies acknowledging that it doesn't make sense in a way and the characters confused as a result like it's almost like a little meta-jobe it's awesome because he can see Dracula's in front of him but he's so convinced it's not possible he's here he looks back to see if there's another Dracula or not it's like how did you do this hey Van Helsing is great go watch E-Fat movies Van Helsing it's come out recently it's a it is rather amusing I should say and perfect for Halloween so yeah song will cut a throat and that essentially closes out the episode that is that is the end of her story yeah they do not they do stop the two from fighting they're about to fight but they are stopped from fighting one is yeah all that's allowed and I I find it thoroughly meaningful because of the relationship these two have had since episode one even just this pickpocket stole his money and this is the person he almost cares about the most in terms of a death it's good stuff when thinking about it at that point of view but I'm just not a fan of the gloss I'm not a fan of I don't know how he didn't see Sagu doing this at all er is just logistically a bit bit flimpy and but like I still get them feels rip Andrew indeed yep Andrew is dead and um yeah it was I think it was on free stream we were just talking about alternatives and it's like you could have done it so that she doesn't get hit by the gloss and she talks to him for a while about how none of those three have to die okay we can figure this out it's just us now there's no crazy enemies no thugs no fucking psychopaths we can figure this out and she's like even though that she's never trusted anybody right she can be the character to convince Gihan that is a good ending here on the table and then Song Wu is like a sleep drops the knife and so Gihan is convinced like we can kill him and then she does the same things like that's not you that's not us and we don't have to and we can work together blah blah and then all right and then he can go to toilet or something he could even fall asleep but let's presume that they're not stupid enough to both go to sleep at the same time so just go to the toilet and he can come back and Song Wu is just sleeping still and then he can go up to her body and he can see that she's had a neck slit and then he can look back and Song Wu could just be staring at him knowing that and the reasoning we get from Song Wu I think is is pretty there's a lot of reasons for why he does what he does I'm not sure what you would decide on exactly what his motivation was but there's there's plenty you can do there it's just I don't know it's a bit of a struggle someone said I think it's become clear that she doesn't want to kill certain people and I could see she was really upset that somebody yeah gave essentially sacrifice themselves for her so she's yeah oh I forgot the scene where the front man looks in the mirror a detective says why okay you know I don't it's fine you do you as a detective plot line we're not interested yeah we're done with you we're finished which brings us to episode nine can you believe it guys we're so close fine I feel bad that Fring is been able to talk about any of this yeah this is unfortunate believe me he has so much to say this house together leave a you could leave a long comment down below and and catch us all up on what he thinks you can pin it yeah well we'll have to open the next EFAP was just an hour of Fring explaining all the things you wanted to say about this good game see here's the thing it's bad enough that we still have to catch up on Superchats now we have to catch up on EFAPs too well yeah we've already set the one for the topic of guests on Saturday it's like roll it along but November will be a month where things will come back down okay Spooktober you know how it goes catch up months we love it we love it it do be like that um do be do be so we got player two one oh my god what oh my god Fring hey what's up man we're just talking about you did you have to paddle back to your room it's just problems but I'm here what's one of our missed well so we're talking about whatever you want we are we're at the beginning episode nine now yeah before we before we start you said like that like that well so so what whatever you'd like to talk about because I figured you're not going to want to give a fucking recap of all the episodes you would not hear for so pick any topic you want I assume you you wouldn't mind talking about because you left when you said you wanted to say something about Sungwoo and Ali's sort of conflict and obviously old man's death in okay well I mean if we're up to like episode oh so I guess the thing that would be worth stating is um uh episode six is great so yeah it is very very very great it's a great episode so much so much awesome character drama that they got to tap into and um I think when it came to Sungwoo the big thing was like we where we're up to now with episode nine with what's going to happen to him it all it's also very deliberate in terms of pushing him down this track and it's when you look through the whole show you can just see all of the hints and clues as to like the decisions that he would make when things got more tense and stressful and like when push really came to shove and then the pretense sort of goes out the window it's just all really well done this is really well done drama when he said when push came to shove I visualized him pushing the glass guy and he said and all pretense went out the window and I just picture him smashing through the pain of glasses out the window that's basically the embodiment of um of what happened there yeah um but uh I I'll I'll just sit around and let's let's let's press on I can't remember exactly what I wanted to say we spent like an hour ripping ripping into the VIPs by the way yeah who yeah they uh they they're not that good you could say that yeah you could say that yes they definitely feel like Americans as written by not Americans uh to say the least humans as written not by humans and we're done a little bit we're done with the detective as well who we fucking ripped into for a long time as well hooray thank you for it's done yeah which means where shall we think we shall we shall press on I suppose because there's plenty we can talk about once we're actually done with the episode summaries you know um so yeah this game we're doing squid game we're gonna decide who goes offense or defense by calling um coin flip and then deciding what position you want to play a Gihan goes offense which kind of makes sense right now he's pretty pissed as you guys would have recognized uh oh Andrew got fridged died just to motivate him to do something else that is all you can say about that uh oh that's a shame right right right oh cool um and yeah so they're pretty pissed at each other naturally uh I think that the easy assumption to make would be that the song was just gone so ruthless that he took a chance to kill her when he had it but there are reasons that he's gonna highlight that I think are fair to think about um I thought it was weird that um frontman explains the rules of squid game to the VIPs I was like have they never seen this before well they um they they well the the people organizers they don't know that they've played it is that what you're asking well wouldn't they I mean these people have seen these games many times right it feels strange they didn't explain the rules of stepping stones they just revealed it didn't they no they explained the rules and then they have and take their shoes off and everything no they explained it to the contestants I meant to the VIPs oh is oh no no the the VIPs yeah I don't know have they played squid game before I think you have to imagine that they've just never played this particular game before seems unlikely that's yeah I agree with that squid game this like that I don't know it seems like the whole organization is based off to this game um or at least in part I don't know maybe there's something I'm missing on that one it just felt weird maybe it's like maybe it's burger game in America and maybe it's strudel game in Germany and maybe it's sushi game in Japan like bigger game it's it's it's kangaroo game in Australia wow it's gun game in America oh gun game I like gun game trying to bait a comment out of fringy here I heard kangaroo game but yeah there you go yeah he's like why is he hopping on one foot and then he's like the attacker is given a handicap he can only hop on one foot until and I'm just like he's hopping because he's a kangaroo and then it's like oh so the defender tries to block him yes and I'm just aw this is so clunk man so very clunk clunking clunking all the way down the street um yeah and I think Gihan is just describing this game and Song Wu's like shut the fuck up let's just get on with it and he throws sand in his face and just gets his two feet that I access straight away he's doing a bad ass right now you know like he's using Song Wu's own tricky tactics against him yeah you could definitely say that was kind of cheating in a way I mean they literally are allowed knives so I don't know seems like and yeah this is more if anything this has nothing to do with completing the game of Squid Game this is much more just about those two confronting each other about everything that's happened it's a little strange that in this game all violent rules of the game you know you can just throw those out the window but the other games are like no violence play strictly by the rules I suppose they decided that they're okay with the knife fight to the death or you can play the squid game shit if you want it's up to you guys at this point yeah this just reinforced really heavily it's like why didn't they try to get around the glass game harder you know um yeah his first point is she was suffering she was gonna die anyway and then Gihan's like no they would have helped her and then he says oh yeah well you're the reason I had to kill her and Song Wu's concern was that those two would vote to end the game and they would have majority um which just fucks everything up for Song Wu ultimately like all the shit that he's done so yeah that you can argue that there's a couple of reasons of ones but I think that is the primary one he couldn't risk that yeah that would because there's nothing he could have done against that yeah yeah and Gihan realizes like she's the one that told me not to kill you which is like ugh oh so much drama and yeah Gihan's now at the point where he's like I don't want like I want to prevent you from winning and Song Wu who has been pretty aggressive up to this point is ready for the challenge so at this point we just we've classically got to the conflict of these two just trying to fucking kill each other um but as the fight progresses it gets a little bit more complicated I would say got a plenty of I think like the concern for just getting to the location you need to get to to win the game is out the window just more so just about the knife fight yeah it sort of gets forgotten and I figure that will be picked up once one of them is incapacitated and we can have our you know you know drama moment of yeah now I can go and win man I can't really capture the intensity of the fight when I can't show you guys anything I'll play the audio but like it was it's you know it's intense one thing one thing that I thought might happen would be in in their their I guess their bloodlust to try and kill each other G G-han G-han he is like Song-Woo is about to kill him like they fight for a while Song-Woo is about to kill him like he's got his hand up and he's got the knife about to stab him but it just but our protagonist G-han he has positioned himself where he is got his feet on the zone where he needs to be in and like right before Song-Woo could stab him like he gets shot by one of the guys something like that you get like a reveal or some tension yeah but I was kind of I was very pleased with this fight I think I uh I was there's a lot of different ways they could have done this yeah there's several endings you could go with here I like the one they went with you um I do yeah I do yeah is and it way better than the fucking detective ending not even anything that's nothing like it's what are you even supposed to but there are some endings that are worse than nothing Mahler yeah there's certainly stories where I would rather just like oh just they stopped making the show and nothing happened we don't know it's just it's just ended yeah this point they've both been dabbed and slashed a little bit and uh Song-Woo comments that this is the fucking place that they made us play red light green light all of those people dead except for us and so again just that the cost of all of this is all that's on Song-Woo's mind it's just like just like how far we've come how many people have died for this this um it's just come too far it's almost I will say but yeah it's fully driven by that yeah very determined but uh doesn't quite pull it around and um man and Gihan takes a different sort of perspective from it in terms of like your goal your your like he said so it was you that killed them you killed everyone just uh it definitely just focusing all of his anger at that point um and Song-Woo's pretty much done so he's uh he's knocked him the fuck out almost uh and now all he has to do is step onto the uh the thing because he yeah he has an option to to stab Song-Woo but he decides against it um which with everything we've seen he's pretty understandable just doesn't fucking do this shit anymore so he walks over to the uh the position he's got to get to and then the it like you don't need any because the VIPs they're like well i guess that wraps it up it's like why yeah thanks for the update thank you thank you like thank you for letting us know that that is the end of the the thing thank you so much i'm glad you're here they really built you up they had so much i just don't know how anyone treats you with any level of reverence um you suck yeah and so uh Gihan says let's end it here actually um and so i thought the ending was going to be if they vote together to end it then all the money ends up going to all the families of all the people who died which is quite a decision to make okay that would have been an ending that would have been an ending there's a couple of possible endings of course um so he's like if we both give up that's how it can work right and uh i think Song Wu is picking up all of this he's also knows he's fully been defeated and then he starts remembering what their childhood was like how their moms made them food and stuff and um i think it's at this point it may become clear for a lot of people watching what he's gonna do because the knife's right next to him um yeah what were you gonna say right someone in chat said it would be way better if uh if their if their mothers had the same name and they stopped fighting i think that would have been a really decent uh really great one there that's a good one Brandon yeah he um gives him a hand and he chooses to take the knife instead and stab himself in the neck and i think it's just Song Wu realizing that his mom can still be safe and yeah to a degree i think he's having trouble living with the guilt at this point um and it's there that Song Wu is like the best character in the show he's probably my favorite yeah yeah he's certainly my favorite it's like full circle it's a really great story from beginning to end for this character and it all leads to a conclusion which feels natural like it all just makes sense given his priorities and he's so much more complex than a villain i just i don't know yeah yeah um that's a lame way to look at it and yeah and they kind of switch Arunius again because now we've got Gihan just fucking bawling over the death of the person that he'd basically said was the reason everyone died um because it's just everything's a lot more complicated than that yep did he feel bad for the way he chose to play the game i i think it's just a matter of what have i become sort of thing not necessarily that any individual decision wasn't um quite possibly the best one for the the scenario just it's just tough at this point it's all for the money so many people have suffered and died and uh there's Gihan sparing him as well which makes it so that his his mom is i think the last thing he's thinking about is his mom he just wants her taken care of that's what he keeps saying and remember he was suicidal in episode two he was he was uh yeah getting those raw ramen fumes hey um yeah is there anything you guys want to say about all that before we keep moving with the story um no i i like this i like i think that this is um this would have made a very interesting place to end the whole show the show ends kind of here and we're left to you know he we assume he really does get the money what happens what does he do with it what does he learn does the results i i think there's enough here with him and we get enough of him that i think this would have been an interesting place to have it end and it ends here i agree that it would be an interesting place to end but i'm not upset that we got extra stuff yeah i'm not i'm not yeah i'm not well we'll get nice and close to talking about probably what a lot of people have been waiting for us to talk about the ending ending ending um well all right then if if we try and get some re going here it's um uh the frontman basically tells him you guys bet on horses we bet on humans that's why we do what's the why for all of this the awesome why does any of this happen yeah but they don't usually shoot the horses that are winning the race because it's more interesting if some of it was more fair it's such a i don't know such a bullshit analogy well we can so full of shit we can go over it just because we're getting close to the big topic of Oldman soon but we'll definitely do a recounting of like fairness world building villainous characters all the squid game people we'll do it yeah gihan gets dropped off in the middle of town with a i guess a debit card in his in his mouth and that card opens up an account that's filled with the money that he's won um then i think we yeah so he um he's just silent basically uh and moping through the whole town after what he's been through kind of understandable yeah um he sees song why don't i forget his what do i forget his name song you song songwoo songwoo songwoo um sees his mom and she's like have you seen him are you okay and uh she um she offers him some money to like help him out and i was like aww and and food i think and i think i think she says for your mother as well and it's just like i don't know it's just something of you know after everything this like always just like you okay you take some food look after yourself it's just like yeah she's she's nice she's a really nice lady she's a really nice lady yeah it's it's such a worse hell out here than it is game she is not like her son probably she is a lot more i guess pure in a way yeah she says your mom needs the cash more than i do um and yeah he gets home his mom's dead he didn't make it in time and uh there's a lot of i've seen i've just seen so much analysis of that and what point the show is making i feel like we should try and maybe summarize a bit more before going over these events but we skip one year forward in time i believe is it one about a year it's at least a year and a half okay if you think about it because they're playing the games in like from june until somewhere in the middle of summer and then when we skip forward it's a year and then it's also around christmas time so i'm thinking a year to a year and a half something in that range i'm not sure regardless it's been some time one year later oh well it does say one year later but it's also winter when it was in the middle of summer when they played the game so i'm a little confused fair enough um it's been some time and he's summoned to his bank because they're like why haven't you spent any of your money and um i'm not sure he gives them much of anything in terms of reasoning at this point he's not really interested in having the conversation um and i think he even asked them for he asked for 1001 right yeah for the bus yeah then he's having himself a little drink on by the side of the the water and there's a person with roses i think he buys the mafia and there's a card in the rose that's the squid game card which is like goldenie i think mm-hmm so he rings it and it's from his gunbow oh shit turns out goodness oldman is not dead oldman oh my god is in a bed not doing so great and uh well we got a big long conversation that i feel like it's going to be tough to summarize here um anyone else want to give it a shot like um oh let me pull it up um i didn't have netflix it's like meanwhile mm-hmm so we're talking so we're talking about specifically um well the scene they share it's quite like long uh yeah oh it is yeah gihan basically gets there and it's like it's oldman what the hell like how is it even possible that you're alive um and then uh he basically like explains to him that he chose to participate in the games he's actually very wealthy and he just wanted to feel something like at all um you know to relive his childhood of games that that's um that super simplicity that comes from when you're young and you're just playing silly games with your friends time doesn't matter nothing else matters in the world you're just having fun with your friends and it's so simplistic and so just it's this wonderful childlike kind of thing that especially as you get older you miss you can't you can never go back to that again and recapturing that is something that's immensely precious and he's very cynical about humans or humanity and yeah and also simultaneously he wants to prove to himself and everyone that deep down humans will just fuck each other over and they won't help each other because that's what humans are like it's a very interesting dichotomy between that aspect of his intentions and I just want to reconnect with the joy of my childhood I mean presumably he sees himself as different or maybe he doesn't and he thinks it's reliable that humanity won't help each other out rather they would step over each other and that's obviously being illustrated by the hobo outside who is just freezing to death on the sidewalk um nobody's helping and he wants to do a bet a game if you will will anyone help him before the stroke of midnight um Gihan is Christmas I think because this this takes place on December 24th yeah I think it does so it's so that means that stroke of midnight is Christmas which is the time of giving it's definitely winter but I'm pretty sure it is I think it is I think it is December 24th but you might want to might double check I'm not sure the point is it's fucking cold mm-hmm but I wonder if there was any kind of thing they were going for or if it's just a special day it's like when he wins the the the money at the horse races at the very beginning how it kind of matches his number I think that was just a little like hey hey hey from the writers it wasn't like anything meaningful for the the actual story the plot um I mean Christmas is notorious for a time of sharing and giving right and being with each other and stuff so yeah yeah there's been simpletisms there uh yeah you sure timed it right I mean damn at least you didn't die before then eh yeah for timing um I'm just because just want to make sure we don't quite miss anything super meaningful quote ways just that I hadn't rewatched this scene I probably should have I guess uh something that's worth noting is just how nihilistic Gihan is that he just happily well not happily but he bets all of his money and that bet he just doesn't care anymore yeah he's at this point from what we've learned just from listening to him speak he's completely lost any and all investment in everything yeah he seems to become entirely apathetic yeah the people he cared about they died he's got all this money but I don't know he feels he's super guilty about it it's his blood money to him yeah all these other people died so I could have this money and I just yeah it's he has survivors guilt and yeah in a way seems yeah and all man just talks about he just wanted to feel again um and times it is running out yeah go ahead for midnight of course and it's unclear on if he saw it but hoberman there's someone who crosses hoberman's path and it's unclear but it almost looks as if he's he mugs him or at least like takes his takes his wallet yeah something damn turns out guy comes by that guy actually went off to go and get a police car to bring back to help this guy out so it's like ah yay humans aren't the worst thing ever but it's unclear on whether or not old man even saw that before he died because he he leaves this plane at midnight yes and just in gihun typical fashion he wins at the very possible last last second yeah yeah some people have all the luck um and yeah they give us a little flashback of the guy who's wearing like the owl mask too who's the old man it's like yeah okay if that makes sense why did he survive episode six I guess he he viewed himself out right because it's his game as well yeah but there it does does that not undermine a bit of the emotional payoff six that he didn't actually die you'd have to be more specific okay so I think it would have been interesting hypothetically whether we saw this or not if you know at the end of episode six the guy comes in with the gun and he doesn't he doesn't think he should kill him because you know he's the head of the games but he's like no I mean I played the game this is a risk I chose this shoot me I don't understand why he survives and that they let him survive it undermines the sacrifice he makes for our main character certainly not from Gihan's perspective in episode six it's all real as far as he can tell yeah no yeah it doesn't undermine well he doesn't know but it undermines it undermines I think his he's playing he wants he's been washing the game for so long and he's like I'm gonna play the game well he won I don't have one to live remember he won but Gihan fucked him over and he let he just allowed him to it seems like he really did make a a host decision he should have died I don't know about that he should have died I don't know I don't know I think I would have liked it more if he did die but in fact I'm pretty sure I would have liked it more if he died and we got something different at the end but I don't know it's weird and complicated the way I see it is that for all we know it could have been that he was willing to die in red light green light he was willing to die in the honeycomb game if it had it happened but this was one where Gihan like cheated him to try and win he let him get away with it to let him continue in the game and that he was just like yeah I ain't dying I'll just watch the rest of it now I don't like that at all I don't know I don't I don't understand what that says I don't understand what that says about his character also that whole episode is about what he feels is his friendship with Gihan it's really gone beyond the games at that point yeah I think it undermines the idea that chooses to let Gihan win in his place and let him continue with the game at the cost of his own life if he just doesn't actually die I mean the the fact is obviously he's a different character with the recontextualizing it like he's not the man we thought he was when he rewatched the show so his life was necessary may perhaps never at stake it depends on everything that he was intending I just see episode six the whole time it says testing Gihan's integrity I guess yeah well the old man was certainly attached to Gihan because of his charity and generosity yeah he pushes it to its limit on him being an old guy and then of course is what this guy is all about in the end he's like okay charity generosity for this old drunk guy on the street what do you say anybody gonna do it so it falls in line with what with old man's values and so Gihan was basically his best friend in his I don't think it falls in lines with his values that he didn't play the game fairly such that he had a chance of losing in the same way it wasn't fair to let Gihan win what do you mean it wasn't fair like he made that choice and that so he won and then he he threw the game he said so himself he's like yeah you you're tricking your friends that yeah I was aware of that by the way yes and then he says instead of like an all or nothing bad or something says here you go you can win in my place I feel like it undermines the idea that with nothing left to lose he's gonna play the game and damn the consequences if he actually loses one of these games if he is allowed an out where he doesn't actually have to die well again you have to think about how this isn't the character we thought he was the key there's lots of questions to ask did he know all these games beforehand in which case there wasn't fucking fair to begin with was it no it wasn't I'm inclined to believe he did he actually know games ahead of time so he didn't know you know it's hard to say I assume if he's been doing this for this long there's no way he's not aware of all these games was it possible to always do the same games all right let's say they have a roster of 30 to 50 to 100 he's gonna know them all isn't the implication that he started a squid game yeah the implication seems to be that he started it because him and his other like wealthy investor friends were just fucking bored which is also lame but we'll come back to that I don't think it makes like I I'm pretty torn on it I think it's lame as fuck that he wasn't actually playing the game on the same playing field or similar as close as he could get having organized it himself as everyone else and that he was just going to have an out regardless of the game and that he would never actually die and that his willingness to give to let Gihan win even though he cheated him because he has that emotional connection to him and he wanted to see and test how far he would go that he would that he just has an out and that he doesn't actually have to die or face the consequences of that decision I think that's fucking lame I mean he's he's a if you want to go in terms of like the the inconsistency or the hypocrisy of this man it's like there's a lot it seems to line up to me I'm fine with him bailing himself out when his interest was much more in the fun of the game and then the fact that he doesn't believe that humanity is in any way good to itself and then he comes across this guy who seems to be bucking that trend and so he puts him through the hardest test he fails it in a sense and then he's just like because I have a feeling that he probably would have let him win regardless out of the the sadness that he doesn't want this guy specifically to die I mean he takes a selfish path and he still spares him and I think he just ejects himself from the game nobody doesn't it doesn't really I okay so if if he lost any of the other games would he died I don't know I feel like that's important is he ever playing with the risk of dying or not I mean I would imagine that if he just there's gotta be right yeah yeah someone could have killed him in that during that because I'm picturing like a scene to be fair they stopped the fight as soon as as soon as he says like hey stop the fighting I'm scared but what if he'd been killed before if he had the chance to do that yeah I don't know it would make it would make sense if he was playing the game on a similar or comparable level as everyone else but the fact that he just has an out where he doesn't actually have to face the consequences I think that's I think the only one that he that's definitely couldn't have been spared would have been tug of war the others they may have been able to prevent the trigger or take him somewhere and we're just like oh what happened to him but I'm I'm relatively convinced that he would have been killed in them it's just that with episode six after what happened with him in Gihan he like holds up his hand to the guy who's about to shoot him it's just like no I want to see how this plays out and since he's the boss I guess it's just he vetoes himself like I said if you're like if you're wondering about his integrity as a person like like that's not fair you didn't play on the same level as everyone else like yeah I don't think he did no I just think it's if we are comparing but he never go ahead if if if we are if I'm weighing up a squid game where the old man is a normal contestant like everybody else and it plays out versus what we got if we're weighing up a hypothetical versus what we had I think I would have I think I would have liked it more if the old man had actually died and he wasn't like the mastermind of all of it but I think that that's my preference I think I would have liked that more I agree with that but I think the hypothetical I mean maybe this I I'm not saying it's unrealistic that he didn't commit to the principles that would say no I need to play the game that he would give himself an out it's not unrealistic but I just think it's narratively incredibly unsatisfying if there's a if there's two versions of squid game one in which he's the mastermind the whole time and that he organized these games but he actually played them as a contestant and shows to sacrifice himself for Gihan because of the kindness he showed him despite what he ends up doing to trick him versus the one where he didn't really die in that situation he got see what happened afterwards I would choose the former Yeah the idea that the old man was just a contestant like everyone else he does die he does make that sacrifice and it is in some way gives Gihan kind of this motivating factor or it does something for him that it that can be used later on specifically him I I think I would have liked that better I feel I did I think this works for me way more that idea because I'm people saying he wasn't chained to the rope I'm pretty sure he is Yeah surely he would have been right looks like he is there are there are some shots that suggest that like his hand is kind of covering it in some shots and actually see whether he's chained to it so I'm not sure can I just point out we have a comment here I see more plot holes in this EFAP than I do in squid games it's like you all didn't even watch it Oh I think we watched it Thanks for providing the argument like we literally are watching it like right now all 10 hours I watched it I've watched it half times you know I've seen half of it twice and half of it once you know if I'm missing certain details you know feel free to correct me with the correct information but otherwise shut the fuck up well yeah I we can't do anything with that loyal viewer we can't we can't do anything with that yeah I don't know yeah that's not very helpful you're gonna do better so what's it Rags just say I would have liked it better if the old man didn't broke my heart no I'm arguing for the thing that would have had more emotional he's saying you would have had his heart broken more if uh yeah yeah I I think the payoff would have worked way better or the character would have worked way better for me if he had actually died but well I guess we could discuss it more or move on like because there's a lot I guess there's a lot to cover because we have the whole his conversation in the room and how does that play out with the fairness how does that hit oh I was bored with my if we're gonna go to my rich we're gonna go like 15 or so minutes left of the show so if we summarize that and then we can talk about anything so he dies his hair red ehan this confused the fuck out of many people I think that it's supposed to be him just sort of it's kind of taking control of his own life which is this is a the first step to doing that well a lot of people that's something that people do I'm I'm in I'm in charge I'm in control I'm taking over I'm making the decisions in a small way to express that is to dye your hair that's something I control it's up to me maybe it's also to like leave his old self behind too I guess yeah potentially well I have to say in the the thing with rich people and really poor people is that like this nothing is like fun whatever like there's nothing that stimulates everything it's just the same or whatever I took going with an extravagant hair color as possibly the the most strange color he could go with and that's just to try and this is the beginning of trying to make something of his life even if being hyper rich can make things meaningless the things I like your interpretation better there's a funny interview I found the writer director said that he liked the red hair color because it symbolized his rage and that's really funny to me because it just makes him a clown it doesn't it doesn't make me think rage that doesn't work yeah that doesn't work yeah because he yeah he sees it on a he seems bored when he's kind of getting it but I guess he I like mine wait mine is better fuck it I'm saying mine is better than yeah I mean I'm all for death of the authors you know well I feel like mine and rags can coexist and absolutely they happily they do now that's what this is about all right ignore the guy there we go that's that is the so yeah look polka dot man was not fucking egotist narcissist okay don't don't trust james gun he was fucking he was a nice guy wrong um yeah so you get his hair done here I guess I'm not entirely clear on this I'd have to watch it and really look into all the dialogue but he gets the Andrew's brother pulled out of presumably the an orphanage and he gives the kid to um uh song who's adopted essentially uh with money she doesn't realize his money in there until he's he's long gone um and then Gihan commits to getting on to that train to get to an airplane with his money to go and finally see his daughter but on the way he spots that even though old man's dead squid game is still recruiting um which upsets him greatly to the point we tries to find train to Busan man unfortunately he's already on a train not to Busan but a train in general look could be somewhere else right now it could be you don't know they maybe that makes a big old loop I don't know I don't know where Busan is relative to uh incion wherever they are which is where ape takes place and Gihan is panicking is fucking telling the guy don't do it don't fucking do it and takes his card off him and then calls the number well I think I'm a very specific set of skills um but yeah because we're so close to the end he goes to get on the plane then he doesn't and then he's like well if you wish to play please state your name and date of birth and then he's like I'm a well you just list who he is and his name to let them know and then um I think the front man is on the phone he's like bro what you doing go see go see a family okay he's like I'm not a force yeah I'm a person he is he is on he is walking to a plane to go and see his family and he's like on the little what are they called the the little pat the little little connecting corridor thing always connecting thing that connects the gate with the plane I don't know what they're called but he's there he's almost at the plane and he's like I can't gangway is that what it's called possibly gantry boarding thingy I think that's what it's called boarding thingy I like boarding thingy yeah and they're like move on don't be doing it he's like nah I'm gonna come and get you don't like you and uh turns away and that's the end of the show who knows what will happen in season two but yeah all I know is that I'm not gonna watch it oh I'll definitely watch I want to know if they fuck everything up I'm curious yeah so um I guess the I guess the big thing here is I hated that he didn't get on the plane to see his family I feel like it's yes yeah I'm very upset about that I was like you finally you've spent all this time building up you and a relationship with your daughter and you're doing this all for her in part and you've talked about how you need to win this for your family and she should be a huge motivating factor for you and then you're you you turn around to go and play the game again or try and find out about it or it like revenge it prevents somehow I don't know alternatively try to put an end to the game but or you're gonna push back a little bit here yeah um so his daughter's gonna be fine and he's now evolved past simply doing what he wants to do in his life with the money that he got from what happened he's now gonna go to the next level and bring this system down that seems to be the angle yep sure enough if he sees that as much more important than seeing his daughter I would say which is a tough decision to make he is large he's largely an incompetent idiot and I have no faith that I actually do it so I mean that doesn't change well it's not about whether yeah what does he believe he he believes that he should try and I'm not sure he he believes that he has to try and do something about it whether or not he can do it competently is like a different question and I think he should get to see his daughter well I mean whether or not well here but it's not really about like that right it's about what do we think that he would do I feel like he would see his daughter yeah well I think one of the things that's very important here is that while he's on the phone they are keeping tabs on him so close that they know he's about to board a plane so I'm thinking they're telling so they're telling him to get on the plane so there are no problems making arguments for how it won't work that's not a good point like because Gihan makes a lot of decisions that are not what would this be Gihan he's done this throughout his life throughout Squid Game yeah he makes a lot of decisions that are dangerous for himself but he commits to them anyway but he thinks this is the right thing to do right thing no I'm not doing the angle that it's dangerous to him I'm thinking like these people they know about his family too and they're actively telling him to get on the plane and don't make things difficult so you're saying one that they would be threatening his family but that would have to be done first I think that's what I think that I think that's they did threaten them by saying no I don't think so get on the you don't think so no I think I think they're telling them to walk away from it I think they're telling them just don't make waves just get on with your life you don't have to do it I don't think they're worried about him yeah no they're not all right I wouldn't be either so yeah so then but again like all that matters is what he believes he can do to try and make things right not whether it's like the smartest decision or anything like that and I think given everything that happened especially in that last episode I don't think that it is impossible or even improbable that he would make the decision he did you have to see him now I I I don't disagree I don't think it's possible yeah I can believe he would turn around but I don't know yeah it's really not a it's not a question of whether it's objectively bad writing whether he turns around or not it's just that I hate it I I can understand that I can see it happening either way I know which way I would certainly have preferred though so yeah yeah I totally understand that and I think that if we can tweak it I think the creator didn't want him to get to see his daughter again rather to make it a dichotomy between that and fighting this system that he's now more aware of than anybody spider-man that's probably something he wanted we could have had it so that he visits sorry not a sister daughter sorry if I said that wrong his daughter he could have visited her and then he could have had the choice of committing to live with her and stay with her and everything works out or go back and sort this thing out and maybe that would have been more satisfying for you because at least he got to see her I don't know if that works better for you but um I think it's a combination of what does he know what's being implied and what is the state of his relationship with his daughter at this moment it is I kind of kind of a lot of those things are ambiguous in that sense um yeah there's a lot we don't know and I also think that this is all going to be made worse by a season two I don't know how they could possibly handle after what we saw with the detective I don't believe for a second that they will make they're probably gonna have a narrative where he actually deals significant damage to the organization and I'm with you I don't believe he can or should be able to he probably will um there is a difference between that and whether it would make the no I'm not talking about that um yeah it's the plot in season two is probably going to be even worse than season one the season one's got enough problems yeah I don't know I feel like there's also a part of if this the idea that the squid game isn't just a game that it's being organized it's just this is it it's symbolic of how people can behave when they're desperate and there's no getting rid of that like you can't take down the squid game because it's just baked into human nature in a way there's always going to be people who play it there's always going to be people who organize it it's always going to have a form you it's you can't you can't get rid of it in a sense is I I kind of thought that was what they were going for um but I guess maybe it is just like a thing that you could stop and that's good like you know to do so yeah yeah that's my thoughts I I I I get what you're saying Rex I kind of feel similarly it's it's it's that when he decides to turn around and not go visit his daughter like I'm gonna go take down the system it's like fucking really I mean I don't know why this is trouble he doesn't want to be a cog he doesn't want to have benefited from it he wants to destroy it it's something that he feels as a person don't I get it yeah and I think the big thing that pushed him over the edge was seeing um France bruson guy in the subway squid game is continuing it didn't die with the old man continuing yeah it just keeps going and so it's like fuck you know can I allow this to keep happening I have no idea what his plan is going to be I just understand the motivation to be like what he went through all of that bullshit that's going to keep on going it has been for 20 years plus and it will be going for more that's why it's meant to be meaningful right because we know how much he values his daughter and the relationship there so for him to be willing to turn around and try to do that it's like man look at this guy he's sacrificing a lot yeah I yeah I I think anyway I'm calling into question his you know there's how much he says he loves daughter and then did I cut out there for a second yep no we're listening oh yeah keep going whatever you were saying yeah I I I'm calling into question how much he professes to love his daughter and how much like he does I think it's time to say that he definitely does I mean yeah absolutely yeah the only thing that trumps him going to see his daughter is the belief that he can make a better world and save many lives in the process I guess I can't fucking wait season two will be bad okay I know it will be I I see people in chat saying you could have it cut to black and it's like you know what if that just if that just leaves it up to our interpretation and closes the door on the season two that'd be cool I will I would have liked that better right I don't know I would have liked it better I think I'm just saying I like that it would close the door on the season two potentially like you know yeah this thing is more I am much like the idea that it was the ambiguous I'm much less passionate about seven eight and nine than I am about one through six yeah but at the same time I just want to give a fair shake to what's being portrayed here yeah no I yeah I mean I agree I I'm fine with the choice there are changes I probably wouldn't make myself I just like because I have seen this ending being slaughtered online being considered like a full assassination absolutely like boring oh yeah I would not go that far for sure yeah I yeah I get it I just don't think yeah I just yeah I could I could see both ways on it I have more problems with the old man twist than I do him deciding go back and fight these people and try to bring it down because I can believe he'd do something like that especially make that impulsive decision in the moment to turn around because he makes these sort of impulsive decisions all the time it's not a matter of I think whether it's impossible that he would do this or this doesn't fit with his behavior I I just I find it has a number of things with this show I find it a little bit narratively unsatisfying I understand yeah as much as as much as he would choose to do that it's just tough to have him choose that over his daughter well yeah I know that having the year of presumably he's just a wandering bum who's apathetic about existence I know people didn't like seeing that uh yeah people didn't want to see that and so to a degree where Sungwoo dies the squid game ends and that limo drive happens and then maybe that's end credits I can understand the appeal of that because we can all speculate on what would have happened next how did you feel about the one year of him just kind of being a loser well he's uh he's completely lost investment in everything after everything he went through I think that's what we're supposed to grab from it um yeah my my question is a year it's almost a year and a half we'll call it a year just to be conservative in this uh hypothetical but that's a long time that's a long time to not go see your daughter to not try to do anything constructive with the blood money it's that's a long time yeah to not get the daughter I don't know he's been he's been through a lot uh not to mention his mom being dead which was possibly one of the bigger motivators if not the biggest to get the money yeah I just I think he had a mental break basically yeah I mean the whole reason he was there is because he could get the uh surgery for his mother so she was that and the daughter but I think his mother's life is more pressing than being able to travel to see his daughter slash keep her here certainly and her being dead uh it's just gonna have a huge effect on him obviously yeah when it comes to like Andrew's uh little brother and that sort of thing and the like the promise that he she wanted him to make um I don't know like I get why I'm just there yeah I get it's not as satisfying as a lot of other endings could have been I understand that completely it's not especially when the whole first episode is so compelling and setting up these familiar familial relationships he has and why they drive him to enter the squid game in the first place that he comes back and just fucking sits around for a year and a half and doesn't go see his daughter I don't see it like I see it less about the fucking political systems more just about like he watches humanity tear it apart itself apart as well as seeing himself reach like a level of rock bottom in terms of things he wouldn't expect himself to do I just think he he comes out of squid game wondering what the fuck is all of this what is humanity what am I who am I that sort of shit um and it takes him that long to get back up on the horse presumably especially after his interactions with old man I think I think I was like the message of his mother dying was almost like it was like he had spent so long allowing this problem to get bad but this is way before squid game this has just been happening for ages that her dying because he hadn't acted sooner would have been like the thing to get him to you can't you got stuff to do you know you've got you know you can't sit around not doing stuff or this will happen to you know that that the well alternatively he did everything he worked really hard he won and she still died which could easily make him convince it's all fucking meaningless if he takes it the wrong way right yeah I think it would have worked way better with Andrew promise at the end that eventually gets taken care of yeah I guess if well I'm pretty sure I get the impression that the reason why the mum died while he wasn't there is just like oh you know like you worked your fucking ass off to get all this money and then you just like you weren't there weren't there because of that it's like man that's just fucking shit like that just really I understand the atmosphere is not uplifting it's very like even with the ending of like defiantly going to change the system it's this is not a lonely opinion this is this is something that's shared by many people who've seen this show uh I understand it I do I just um you know I see that this is still it would a through line and value in it for me yeah I wouldn't I wouldn't go nearly as far as to call it character assassination or anything that no I wouldn't um I mean it just sounds like um it's it's not what you wanted to see which I guess is for fair this is like uh I guess that happened you know I get it squid game it really does a little bit of capitalism like to reduce people to a number thing oh yeah which totally doesn't happen under any other system except barbarism I guess really don't reduce people to numbers in barbarism I guess not that might be the only system where they don't because you remember it like a modern feudal lord system yeah you just be a fucking number because you'd be peasant if you're in a socialist system you bet your ass you'd be a number you'd be an extra number under that system you'd be on you'd be on a big ass many lists but uh yeah I don't see this that yeah this again this capitalism thing it just doesn't what you mean like you don't think that because I know that people being talking about the politics stuff for this show and like I've seen if if it is a critique of any particular system it is trying to critique capitalism I was gonna say I agree with ringing on that one yeah but I think that um like if you're um like if there's a fundamental theme or fundamental point that the show is trying to analyze it's like human nature competition like people fighting against each other to you know like the decisions that people make in these sorts of situations I think it's an aspect of I if it does in the sense that it critiques capitalism I think it's only in the sense of well this is what we have to critique right this is the system we have well so I want to make this clear and this is for everyone in chat and everyone in the fucking world just because a thing is critical of a system doesn't mean all the other systems aren't filled with flaws too I don't know that this because I think all people automatically assume the squid game takes the position the capitalism bad therefore something else goes rather than there are things in the system that accentuate the problems in human nature and um because this is the interesting thing I've talked to a bit about this but like yeah squid game can't exist in first world western cultures right now as it is it's illegal there are regulations in capitalism to prevent this thing from existing because it's fucking horrific and remember Andrew an extremely important character fled from north korea which is not a capitalist country so yeah I just I'd rather look at this as a thing piece rather than it's against my system and I don't like it it's like no no no just everyone I'm pretty sure everyone agrees capitalism is not perfect right no matter how much of a fervent capitalist you are there are there are elements in these games where uh because I've seen there's a map that video everybody recommended I found it frustrating to watch he basically says like the thing about this show that everyone misses is that if you just worked together then uh you know the most amount of people would have lived one of his examples is the fucking glass dude giving everybody the glass tips to get everyone across the the pains without realizing that they turned off the lights after he did it twice so that doesn't solve shit like that just doesn't do shit all so it just it frustrated me listening to it um and he was like yeah you know it it's reflective of a system that we don't look for how we can win we rather look for how I can win and if that means the best option is to you take advantage of other people and so be it which is something that comes with human nature but is accentuated by the system at least that's the criticism a lot of people would make I err on the side of fuck me individuals make make more altruistic choices please rather than playing a system because the nature of the games they are very this one is purely individual this one is undoubtedly team oriented so they they definitely play them both up I definitely I on a purely as a matter of taste I vastly prefer something like trained to Busan which I mean that's a lot of class stuff isn't it yeah yeah but it has a more it presents more noble characters trying to be altruistic in the face of extreme circumstances than this does and that's why even subjectively I didn't enjoy this show as much because it felt very cynical to me for example for example when they instigate fights so that people will murder each other when the lights go out it's not just the thugs who are killing people it more or less turns into everybody is trying to kill each other except for a couple of main characters who were just on the defensive everyone else is strangling each other and suffocating each other and making active aggressive attempts to murder each other I don't know that we know that I because some of those well some of those people could have been initially defending themselves and then it's like well fuck if you're going to try to kill me then I have to try and stop you and I assume we're cool with self-defense yeah I'm more than cool with self-defense I think I think you'd be hard-pressed to argue that there isn't a tone of cynicism about human nature and what people do in these circumstances that is in stark contrast to something like train to Busan I mean train to Busan has one of the most evil people in it possibly outmatching and then there's a whole sequence where they all yeah but this train to Busan has all true people trying to make altruistic decisions yeah absolutely so does this so does uh so does no not at the same extent at all but it doesn't like it does I mean that's a bold claim let's explore it so what are the nobles first of all I could argue this has a more realistic look than train to Busan where this show is honest that everybody has limits and flaws and there's no guards among us there's no prophets there's no people who will make the right decision every time even uh Yehan is willing to manipulate an old person with mental issues to to survive which I think you could argue is far more honest could train to Busan be too idealistic that too many people willing to be honorable and sacrifice themselves I'm not making that claim but one could easily make the argument and that when his show is maybe more rural more realistic it's one that you can connect to better as being an honest work and even the bad guy the villain makes a sacrifice of killing himself so that the money can go to the people he loves to be taken care of like I guess that doesn't because like so so here's all I'm gonna here's wait wait wait here's all I'm gonna say is that you know when it comes to the pessimists and the optimists everyone thinks they're the realist so I think something like train to Busan is more realistic and you're clearly looking at something like squid game and thinking this is probably more honest and more realistic about people not necessarily and maybe in the case okay well let's say you're making that case I think something like train to Busan is more honest and realistic for how people are than squid game is and that's personally why I found it a bit too cynical for my taste now it doesn't mean that people wouldn't make a lot of these decisions but there are certain cases in which for the sake of I don't want to say for the sake of drama but the writer clearly wants everything to kind of descend into I'm being hyperbolic but for everything to descend into barbarism for example that night when it every like it seems like everyone except for a couple of our main characters are at each other's throats I think it's a little unrealistic for example that so many people would vote to continue the game I think it's a little potentially unrealistic that so many people would come back after voting to leave and I'm not talking about huge numbers but it just seems to me that the show in general is a bit cynical to the point of being unrealistic about human nature and maybe it's because I'm a bit more optimistic about what people would be like in these circumstances but I think whereas trained to Busan presents a more noble path forward in terms of self-sacrifice I think the only comparably noble people in squid game are the people that don't come back to keep playing the game um well didn't you because you said before that there was like more altruism in trained to Busan than there was in squid game and I immediately thought about how Andrew told Gihan which platform to jump on when there was absolutely no incentive to do that I'm not saying there's none I'm not saying I guess what I'm saying is clearly that's a great example yeah but I get I guess that's that's kind of the idea right is that there are there are examples of altruism pepper throughout the show and I mean I don't and the show certainly doesn't like condemn the like Gihan's perspective in terms of like trying to be a better person of course it gets really depressing at the end when when things are really shit for him but I mean he's the protagonist for a reason and like there's a reason why Sungwoo is like an antagonistic force later on because he's just looking out for himself I think the show presenting um more negative aspects of human nature doesn't mean that it's like that means that it is necessarily more cynical about it especially if like the protagonist is sort of meant to be the person who is trying to be more selfless selfless to a fault sometimes yeah and he ends up I I don't necessarily agree with I don't necessarily disagree right um because it does feel it does feel weird to pit them against each other in this regard but I just think I think it's obvious to a degree that the train to Busan presents a more noble path on the whole than Squid Game does you know I could be convinced otherwise I mean our protagonist starts in that with sacrificing people it is whim to care for like he just he locks out two of the best people on the train potentially because he's like nasty risky and he goes on his arc to go as far away from evil businessman as possible that guy still exists and then the company itself is like butchered the land for its own benefits and it causes the zombie virus to even happen in the first place like there's a lot of criticism of humanity and train to Busan as well yeah oh yeah I'm not I'm not saying I don't want to put them at opposite ends of an extreme by any means I you know there's plenty of criticisms even cynicism if you put it that way in both I'm not saying there isn't I I think on the whole looking at squid game it's it's a bit more cynical than I find well do you remember the the part where like all of the people basically treated our heroes as zombies because they didn't trust they were infected and like all of them get slaughtered as a result of it it's like that could be considered pretty damn cynical right it it is and I that's one of my least parts about train to Busan is when that woman decides that she wants to kill all those people or let the zombies in because in a in you know in a nihilistic moment she decides that perhaps they all deserve it well whether or not that's good you could like you could see someone making the argument right hardcore at that point yeah no okay okay so I'm not they're comparable in a lot of ways all I'm saying is on the whole I think one leans more into an optimistic direction than the other in a way that I find realistic but that could be a matter of personal taste yeah um because I'll argue like there's a lot of darker stuff that I like in my content because it gives me inspiration in terms of how bad things can get you still have the little like the one for me I think is why I kind of managed it was the um the song who's mom seeing Jihan and she just immediately gives him things and asks him to make sure the mom's okay when she's not even doing fantastic sales and who knows what's coming after here as a result of Song Wu's situation we don't know for sure um I like that quite a bit yeah it it's to me it's like the thesis of the whole thing is like that's the important part that there are people out there who even if they're on the lowest rungs of society they want to look after those who are less fortunate than them and that's like the key so I guess I I guess I'm guess really go ahead go ahead there's a because I don't want to you know highlight people too specifically but because of its topicality the super chat here does I think bring up a relevant enough point to yeah discuss if you want no do you want to read it out the situations presented in Busan and squid are also different and a zombie apocalypse people benefit from cooperation much more while in the squid game the games are designed to force people to backstab encourage people to backstab in some cases I guess the direct competition encourage yeah I it's not the best one to one well I would also argue as well and I don't want to the cross section we've got is a little bit important to because it's completely random amounts of people on the train meanwhile this is all people who owe significant amounts of money through I'm not going to say that that means you're a bad person I'm just saying that a lot of them are through gangs and through having bet all the money away people who yeah are in environments where they already potentially betray loved ones to get more money and stuff it's like they're more predisposed to backstabbing potentially I don't want to be too harsh there I feel like that's a bit mean but it's not quite the same as a random selection of people it's just they're under a lot of that's a good price yeah beyond that world that is different to the stress that they're under in Busan that is a that is a good point I guess what I'm confused about is you okay so Mala you look at the scene where the mother of the guy who you know came in second I'm so bad with names on who yes she you know that's the thesis for you right to a degree about you know the good that exists in humanity and clearly the show believes that to a degree because it includes that scene right I wouldn't want to claim too hardcore but it's it's what I find very meaningful and that I would take away from the show in terms of inspiration that we will make it if you can just be a bit more kind to each other I don't know like something something like that no and I and I would agree and I I like that quite a bit I'm confused as to what the show ultimately thinks about people and I'm I'm so one of the things we've talked about this already it doesn't have to be necessarily political but as an ethical statement I'm I'm I find the ultimate message or theme a little bit muddied or can I think that's fair I think you've selected I've looked into a lot of people's coverage of this show so many interpretations of everything I'm not gonna be like wrong right wrong half wrong however um I feel like they ran the gamut on basically all kinds of humans in this show and results like you know Thugman is basically just hardcore on one end everything is for me and I will kill and destroy everything as long as I benefit that's just full on Song Wu is like a more idealistic character that you could you could be like he's a nice man but through making very calculated decisions he's almost inseparable from Thugman from a superficial look and that's I think many people would draw from him see it's capitalism that did that to him or the system that did that to him while I'm like he made very conscious decisions he knew what he was doing and he tried to deal with the consequences and it was too much for his heart to bear I think um even though the mind was right his arc began before the show it's uh well and I just think it's fucking fantastic and you name each of the characters and everything they go through including like Ali and Andrew bless his soul for being called that so much throughout this 11 hour stream um yeah I I just see it as a this is why I I love my media that I think is fantastic when I just see it as a view and it's presenting these um these dynamics these arcs and just like what do you think and I'm like I just I see it as um these these kinds of humans they all exist and the the one we would rather aspire to is this this little lady who's organizing a little fish shop and she's looking after the people who come by every day rather than any of them necessarily specific main characters um because they all have different dynamics and aspects even though I would absolutely say song was my favorite I find him the most interesting yeah yeah so yeah I wouldn't want to claim the show like if I said no the show is saying humanity sucks I've seen that go around and I'm like come on guys I feel like it's going to be a little bit more than that even if the writers said that was the the point of the show I'd be like damn I I disagree he's he hasn't said anything so cut and dried or uh black or white but he said some things I don't feel it's really necessary to go into the details what he intended with the show or what he believes personally because I think that's a separate issue from what the work itself puts forth and argues if you will and I'm perfectly happy to look at this and say it's something akin to parasite which I like quite a bit that goes here is a complex situation make up your own mind about it and I think that's ideal I definitely went into this tinged by the perception everywhere that this is some sort of biting social commentary and so I think that tinged a lot of the way I looked at it because I watched most of it going well what's the social commentary exactly like what are you actually trying to say whereas if I went into it thinking oh this is just a story you know and here's some stuff that happens it's believable and realistic you know make up your own mind I think I I think I would have had a different experience that could explain a lot of it um because I saw it as a result of everyone's squid games squid games squid games squid games but recently all I've seen now is squid game is anti squid game is pro squid game is is that squid games ending is blah blah blah squid games trying to say that squid games being promoted as blah blah blah when actually it's blah blah back then it was just a story that dare I say went viral on Netflix because people enjoyed it so much so I watched it all in one day I was like Fringy you gotta see this let's go and then I talked to him just about stories not about politics or anything yeah and like yeah the conversations definitely evolved we're now a squid game like I I think I opened with this 11 hours ago that it's being used to bludgeon other people in terms of like you're an idiot you didn't get the message and you you don't even realize you like stories that critique your own point of view or something like and I'm just like oh such a headache yeah this this story by no means relies on capitalism being the system it could it goes all around though like yeah it's everything it's brain have fucking it takes in terms of like what political perspective is actually being yeah I'm trying to go galaxy brain to the point where forget capitalism just people claiming and fucking anything like it's the it's the it's their guy it's just like go away yeah stop it yeah this is actually this piece of media agree with me it's anti-earthling yeah it is definitely far yeah I very little real I see this almost entirely based off of just human dynamics and crisis scenarios risk reward and their like what this human nature stuff like there's nothing yeah you could have this could take place this could take place in North Korea instead of South Korea it could take place in the feudal fantasy world it could take place in obvious right if I theocracy it could take place in all kinds of different systems because you'll still have the kinds of people that the game needs to be around and there will always be elites in any system I guess one area where it definitely tips into cartoonishly cynical is the trail of the VIPs and the organization yeah I I happily consider that just a fucking mess the VIPs they need to do way more and I and I definitely think that tinge is the rest of it but if we are going to the detective plotline entirely thank god and if we're going to ignore the VIPs and the world building of the organization entirely hard to do but let's do it for a second if we focus on how everyone behaves in the game itself I am I am perfectly happy saying that it's it's a it's a realistic portrayal of how people lacked I struggle with those other elements and I think did we want to talk about did we want to talk about world building do we get to talk about it as much as we wanted to I don't remember if everyone's because you know I don't want to keep everyone here for long but we need to um I I can't remember if it we if we implied it well enough by now or not this in the sense of I can't believe that this organization doing this can exist I don't yeah I mean without getting into more thorough references I don't believe it could exist this way without getting caught certainly not for as long as it apparently has especially with how incompetent the leaders and the workers are and how breachable it is from your average dumbass detective I don't I don't believe it for a second basically I appreciate the idea I wish they spent more time justifying it but I think a lot of writers don't give a fuck we're just like oh who cares about that I want to talk about the characters and I'm like okay yeah yeah which is you know I do want to say like I really like this show and I adore episode six and all the the things the fields it made me feel right um oh yeah absolutely but I feel like anyone who's watched this entire stream we've gone through a lot of criticisms okay um a lot it may remind you a bit as was referenced prior the the suicide squad where I have loads to say that's great about characters plotline if we if we say that because the plotline is not all bad in terms of like because we like a lot of the games how they were conducted and stuff but then one of the games is a disaster to a degree and um the surrounding will building and everything to do the detective have to be counted we got loads of damage there too I guess what I'm trying to lead here before we maybe talk about a couple more things before we close off I was just gonna say if if you guys do you want to do you want to land on the form of a number do you want to give it a shot hmm hmm let me ask you this does the fact that the detective plotline ultimately not leading to anything does that mean it's not as big of an issue it is a big issue because as much as it doesn't lead him to anything it proves that the organization is fucking batshit in terms of true yeah that is true yeah yeah it really undermines world building oh I think we got a suicide squad related scenario here I think so too I think we got some really great characters but boy the plot and world building are fucked and yeah I'm sitting somewhere between a five and a six that's exactly where I was sitting I'm not sure yeah I'm gonna say exactly where I was exactly where I was sitting five or six because that's where I'm because I'm yeah I'm drawing parallels with the suicide squad I'm doing the whole characters versus plot sort of thing I'm trying to make sure I'm not too generous and not too unfair oh I what we gave so what did we end up giving suicide squad a five five is what I settled on I think I'm gonna give it the same as suicide squad I was gonna try to do a poll I could only do four options so do you reckon I should do four five six seven to see what people vote well maybe you should do may maybe do like one to four that was my first idea five I feel like it's it's gonna be not what we're looking for yeah because I was like I want to give it a four and out of one yeah yeah like anyone that thinks it a three that anyone that thinks it's a three or an eight yeah I feel like threes and eights that's too low and too high so not that we don't appreciate the perspective of threes and eights but I'm just curious if you had to vote between four five six and seven just just give me a vote you can obviously abstain if you don't want to should we do a should we do a one to five or a six to ten feel like like which which side is it on is does it cross that line maybe we do that as a second poll I'm just we'll see how this one goes just see what people say how do I look at that there we go vote away I know that everyone's a little sleepy in chat I know it's a a company we've done almost a half of an out of history episode just talking about a squid game but it's it happens yeah there's much I mean there's a lot to talk about yeah there's a lot to discuss there's a lot there's a lot of stuff to chew on here both plot wise thematically character wise this is this is some content rich showmanship that we're seeing and I want to say I enjoyed the hell out of watching it I don't know if it has as much like I enjoyed it way more my first time than subsequent times because every time I see the detective I want to kill myself like literally when you I don't care to see it again but uh like I would rewatch train to boost on before this I have no trouble watching train to boost on again that film is yeah that can grow make a grade for me easy I'm not generally into rewatching things I guess in general but um yeah I'm just not too keen on rewatching this some things I'll rewatch some things happily but I don't know yeah I just was really I mean like okay because like I think the world building for what's there is kind of shit the plot is like I don't even know how to rate the plot it's like this there's stuff that's just just absolutely fine but then there's also really shitty things characters are mostly really solid with a couple of I guess the VIPs count as gaps for that right yeah they're almost like not characters in a sense cardboard cutouts yeah they don't do anything I guess or I mean do they it's bizarre that they have some influence over how the games yeah and it's bizarre that they exist to deliver such terrible expositional dialogue like not even character building stuff just stuff we knew it's like thanks I guess yeah that's what I'm saying like their their real impact on the story I don't know I mean they were shit they were they they stood out in particular but thematically it's like complex because there's lots of conflicting information at least it could be interpreted as conflicting information for sure and so it can get complicated I think thematically it's a whole lot stronger if you ignore the detective and the VIPs but you really can't ignore both of them well you know what I feel like the VIPs are there to basically boost up the detective side of the story because in the end the detective is the only one that really got anything out of their presence everybody else really suffered for it yeah more crossover with the VIPs than he did with the fucking main cast they made me look at a big fat gross guy there was a big fan yes yes when you're judging the thematic message or point of the story on that level you have to weigh that stuff up interestingly chat have seemed to settle on between six and seven ish really yeah yeah I definitely wouldn't go seven six is a maybe but I'm sticking with my five I think five makes sense I I don't know if I'd land on six or not yet this yeah it's tough I wouldn't say it's a seven I think yeah I think when you especially as time goes on number systems tend to get more refined as you know what to compare it to it might even be worth sometime us exploring really early entries if we need to adjust now that we sort of know where things fall but um yeah I think I don't think I could quite I want this and suicide squad to be on the same level because they're both so similar in terms of characters good story world the plot is bad so yeah I'm gonna that's what I'm gonna keep it here yeah um is it a high five I don't know if it's a high five or not um high five but I wouldn't be necessarily opposed to that I mean I'd go high five before six so and don't worry we just got a small fraction of people especially the E5 audience can skew in a particular way and everything like so it was just an interesting little poll to do um yeah I think the last thing we should probably talk to on animation we definitely talked about it was the whole fairness thing the first thing I started seeing about from people was complaining that the games weren't fair and the conduct conducting of it wasn't fair and the first thought I had was like I thought that was part of the point was that they claim that it's fair but really it's not as a criticism of the societies that we are a part of again I'm not being specific that's just fairness again an ideal all societies will have unfairness yes absolutely um and claiming fairness so as we were going over with the Jon Tron thing I was telling you about like if is it fair for me and Rags to compete in basketball it's like I well I guess in the sense that we're just gonna be playing but but like you know if I have a height advantage or if he has more he's more agile and stuff it's just like we could probably determine who's gonna end up winning actually before they even fight and is that for it gets really complicated when you start breaking down the problem for me was that there was such blatant examples of cheating that nobody did anything about and I was like if you want me to believe that the angle of it being fair but not really fair is strictly just down to thinking about these people as individuals like tug of war I think is where they really push it it's like oh this is totally fair right it's like I mean it's fucking if you just have a team of women versus a team of men it's not exactly like how are we thinking about this um and I thought maybe they balance it out by having a game where the women would have the advantage but at the same time again I don't know about like compared to how do you create a game where women have an advantage narratively um you have to well they kept mentioning elastics right you have flexibility yeah I don't know like I'm trying to envision a game I'm not exactly sure they talk they gave a couple examples I'm just I'm imagining who come and theoretically if you can't do the best splits you do look remember that game in um they played in a ultimate fucking whatever you know the thing where they have a block coming at you and there's a person shaped home but it can be difficult to slip through could have done that um oh yeah that could have been neat and the women could be really good at it you know that sort of shit balancing contest I don't know are women better or a balancing thing I should like I don't know that got me boobs um point being red light green light fits perfectly in how I perceive the fairness unfairness aspect right there's there's faster runners or someone with a disease that makes it the unable to stay still that kind of unfairness I'm like I can see how that yeah and then the honeycomb one I'm like kind of yeah yeah I think I think I'm okay with that tug of war I was like okay we're pushing it a bit now aren't we like this is really unfair and then marbles went back to being fair I feel like except with maybe as you guys are talking about the execution of giving them information beforehand but again I feel like that applies to all of them again especially tug of war Jesus then stepping stones I mean that's just stepping stones but not just stepping stones we're gonna sabotage the well not only that but let's be honest doing it pretty well hideously unfair because if you just all it is is you choose a number and I guess you either die or live because of your place in yeah it's just it's a oh yeah it's pretty I suppose yeah the first yeah I suppose one could say oh isn't that fair because everyone's picking a number and you're just like I don't know man in the sense that you're just rolling the dice but that seems to if that's the case then why go through this fucking charade of the game if it's going to be just so mathematically determinant you have to really try and come up with some crazy nonsense to make it interesting but if that happens you have to change the rule so it goes back to being a 50-50 so right and yeah the Squid Game then being the last one which I mean it's let's say we have 20 people left I think a number isn't really a game yeah yeah if we have 20 people left to split into two teams of 10 for this the Squid Game finale on a big I guess track whatever I don't even know how I that's just I guess that's the team that wins that I guess would just be the stronger and faster ones or the more experience with the game you know what else is there so so many chats that I think keep being harsh because of the last episodes blunders you're retroactively judging the overall show harshly I don't know where you were man but we've been ripping into this yeah we've judged a lot of it very harshly like you you notice the whole subplot of the whole show we just fucking hate episode six was the one that I no sorry episode five I said it might be my most hated episode because I hate how much the detective plot line is in that one and it's shit also I feel like if anything like half of us were against the final episode but half of us weren't so I don't know what you've been watching yeah I feel like this is probably yeah I'm a pretty balanced breakdown on the show right yeah I have a lot of it's a wheelchair exactly maybe they deliberately do you have a wheelchair on your jet oh I mean and to be fair if someone said like well maybe they avoid doing the wheelchairs like I mean they still have the old dude he's still if they're willing to take old people in who are literally just unable to be because fuck if they have like a game we actually have to just run like that is the challenge like geez yeah if you're building an army in each unit takes a certain amount of supply points a really old dude in a wheelchair person you know which one's worth more supply points for your army I don't know and how far does fairness go when one of the competitors has an out and won't necessarily die if he loses so yeah um and then having him so ardently defend the idea to the point where he's like you can do black market organ smuggling just don't make things unfair it's like okay all right so if you want to get caught is this your is this your fetish is that yeah that the risk that is like I just don't a lot of people found that really satisfying I just didn't I felt like he should be definitively controlling shit like that when he finds out they're doing organ smuggling shit you should just kill them all and erase that fucking part of the island just be like no yeah I that would have worked in a different scenario with a different character who is so focused on something that is like yeah as long as you do your job perfectly I don't care what you do when you're not on the clock but that that works in different scenarios it does not work in this one no by the way there is a sense of irony I hate to bring this up I don't want it to go much further than what I'm going to be bringing up I just saw someone vaguely mentioned it in chat and it's so fucking true this show is hyper successful because of capitalism this economic system allowed it to get get this leg up on Netflix and it's now exposed to everyone when nobody else was picking it up like it is it is one of the most successful tv shows of all time so it's just like yeah this this system that allowed that to happen anyway let's talk more about fairness we don't talk about that I I think that it's there's enough wiggle room to be able to talk through it all as we've done I just think that it doesn't hold up fantastically to scrutiny and what I will say to satisfy a lot of people who are saying this yes it is overrated though I don't know what show wouldn't be overrated at the level Squid Game is rated you know what I mean yeah yeah um I would say that Squid Game is overrated it does a lot of great great things and the things that it does great are the things that a lot of stuff horrifically fails at and the stuff that it fails at are things a lot of media fails at and I regardless of what number I give this which is a five which is the correct answer I will I will definitely say that I super appreciate this yeah I really enjoyed it in fact I go as far as saying I loved parts of it I did love parts of it easily I did love parts of this yeah it is definitely worth a watch I will definitely say I recommend this the highs are high enough that it it is definitely worth the low lows and it's neat to see a piece of media that like especially that episode six man just everyone I've seen watch it has a lot to appreciate about and it's like hey that's nice a lot of people come away liking a thing instead of it being super divisive but I think the nature of the show is leading it into divisive land yeah it's not entirely a divisive audience making it divisive there's some I don't know I think the nature of the show lends itself to that yeah it's in sandy area there's also stuff in here that's controversial as fuck and people aren't gonna like I get it I do yeah well I mean I think we've been pretty thorough in our explanations so I do think so that's true also chat people do think that a five means that you hate it but that's just because they're not familiar with that's because they're just using the fucking 1 to 10 wrong I feel like most people are they're using the IGN perv you guys know well enough they're using it like it's grades in elementary school yeah five is a fine score you should you should be proud that that means you did a whole bunch of stuff right you did at least half of it right in fact yeah I don't know I don't we are was that 40 minutes away from the cap just just under 50 minutes away from the cap so I've still got a little bit of time for anybody to talk about whatever they want to but I think we can we can wrap up now whenever I was thinking about yeah I think all that comes to mind right now is like naps yeah pillows food yeah I might be too tired to eat I don't know yeah I don't know what else to say other than I really liked it I'm really glad it exists I had a lot of fun with it apparently it's fucking made a shite load of money for Netflix in terms of budget versus production it's gonna get a season two season two is gonna annoy the fuck out of me it's gonna be bad it's like gonna be bad but I'll give it a chance I would go as far as saying it's kind of like media at this point but I would Netflix is known for this it fucking mood is shows that have great season ones we've got a laundry list okay I don't even want to go near it it's frustrating we'll see but like screen games get merchandise all over the place as well which is abusing to a degree like you can't help but like get them medically amusing yes get the funko pops for squid game you're like yeah man merchandise those little guys it's pretty Wally aim to start super store okay mind hunter is the next there are exceptions there are exceptions yay thank you for saying I like mind don't that um yeah anything else you guys want to say before we we try and wrap up here in some way shape of home about this show nope um not really I just had a good time in any type of show that makes me want to watch it rather than work pretty good well that's kind of I fell behind on work a few times binging the show has to go back to the editing dungeon and the rest of us are gonna go sleep please feed me and uh no uh you get you get a hard boiled egg water and an egg yes uh sparkling water and an egg well before we do any heading out um capital opinions thank you so much for joining us for 11 hours and nine oh yeah it's holy monoleum oh my god thanks for having me always nice to have you what are you up to it was a good time channel what's happening what's going on over there watch me do some screw the wounds you might have noticed if you pay attention to the channel that I haven't posted any on time yeah so why have you done this huh very busy with work but also I I have a short film in color correction and sound design post production at the moment and another one that I'm trying to cast and go into production hopefully this month we'll see and then after both of those are done I can finally start making devs episode four review so not promising any deadlines but I will get back to making videos if you enjoy such things you can look forward to that and if you like short films by people who you know want to write in direct eventually you can check that out too and you've got a whole bunch of stuff on channel with on devs right did you complete the coverage of devs not even close I have done we have done three we have done three of the eight episodes so that is progress yeah it is progress they it will be finished or so help me so stay tuned for that before you're dead it will happen cool we um I don't know that's bullshit do you want to make anybody aware of any particular things so yeah um well we've still got the resident evil six movies oh I believe uh we're we're headed on February we're headed to the best one right or February I'm coming in February I heard Friday just gonna release four Friday in October the two on February okay right exactly no no no Friday we're headed to the best resident evil movie yet right yes Friday will be retribution Sunday will be the final chapter Saturday will be the that's your homework everyone watch the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen we're gonna have a nice little chat chat about it hopefully that won't take 11 hours I seriously fucking doubt it uh but you never know it's like Ben Shapiro Ben Shapiro gave Squid Game a 7 out of 10 for watchability a 1 out of 10 for politics whatever I'm guessing I'm guessing he was the one that said that oh it's a criticism a capitalism and I hate it right well Tim Pove said it was an allegory for communism let's not I yeah no I'm not I just want to we're all equal in the Squid Game comrade can we just bring it back down and fuck I see no on the story for itself I think it's I think it's pro-monarch and I'll leave it there I agree it's a thought I agree what are you working on wait who's that director that I said rags what are you working on oh I didn't hear the rag part yeah no no oh yeah me either yeah I got a whole batch of new assets and stuff that are getting worked on now just some delays with those kind of slowed it down but yeah just they're coming when they're coming that's what's just caused this delay else stuff would have come out I'm just kind of you know I'm gonna get these out and used and it'll help things up it's slow now so it can be fast later just because they're welcome right yeah it's slow because yeah I've put a lot of a lot of money into some of this stuff so yeah I will I'll have that when it's out to right I hit you playing that the creepy alien game on Sunday is that true nope oh oh yeah with ringy though yeah yeah well yeah we're gonna give that a go I almost certainly it'll be better than the last creepy aliens game we played I think so so well uh probably yeah it's funny I was like what were that like fired team something or another yeah that just reminded me it's like by the way how's Ashley's streamed tomorrow I'm like oh yes I'm also streaming this stupid game the next installment of whatever the fuck that series doc pictures that's what they call it are you really gonna do the thing where you just don't actually interact with anything in the game to see how it plays out or is that a there is one of you gonna do it and one of you won't or we'll see that's the angle one of you does it one of you doesn't you know whenever they give you an option for like say a character says hello and your options are like hello or fuck you bitch it'll be like oh fuck you bitch yes let's see what oh yeah I always always play the jerk yeah as for whether or not we'll do fucking the QTEs I feel like we'll probably consider avoiding them it'll make the story faster so there's that oh yeah because the thing with those games is everybody's gotta get an ending right even if you kill everybody you still get like more than half the game probably if not all the oh by the way I just to chat I will not be playing this one because remember last time it was a nightmare to get the remote play thing to work it really was an absolute nightmare and the only saving grace for that working was the fact that there's basically zero gameplay anyway so we could make the horrific system just sort of work but yeah it really was just the devs fucked up major when it came to the design for multiplayer yeah they why not make the hot seat whatever I don't even yes me and me and Mel are gonna play through it it's gonna be a terrible I assume that'll be tomorrow the day after we'll be if at the day after that will be aliens after the resident evils this just loads of Halloweeny stuff happening on these days surrounding Halloween one of the odds yes also check out the man Helsing EFAT movies that came out today I very much recommend that oh my god it was a bomb yeah it was so fun I found myself laughing a lot at what we laughed at it was funny yes it was very entertaining so yeah thank you all so much for watching we of course all these super chats will be saved and we'll be going over these probably next Wednesday that would theoretically be the time I don't want to make any promises they're just dacked as fuck right now scheduling wise but um and that's we will definitely read them all out of course and yeah thanks for hanging out with us for so long so it's a long boy strong thank you very much this was a long one thanks for sticking around and listen to us talk about it yeah anything else you guys want to see before we end no no i'm good no i'm good good to go i'm good glad you could join us it was a good time very well uh sleep well my massives good night good night oh my um