 And welcome back to our talk show, and we will begin our second session for today's policy dialogue where in the second session we'll be discussing more on the global food and energy crisis and also the impacts on the palm oil sustainability roadmap. And once again, I would like to invite everyone here to please also propose your questions, which you can type in the Slido feature by scanning the barcode that is available on your screen and also by accessing the Slido link that is available or that you can find on your table, ladies and gentlemen. So without further ado, as you enjoy your dessert and probably your lunch, I would like to start our second session by inviting up onto the stage our speakers for our second session. Please join me in welcoming our first speaker, our first panelist, Mr. Wisnu Lombarduinanto, the representative from the Director General of Multilateral Cooperation of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Indonesia. Once again, I would like to call upon Mr. Wisnu Lombarduinanto. Oh, it appears that he is here online. I'm sorry. Good afternoon. I was informed that you'll be here offline, but thank you for joining us virtually, Mr. Wisnu. Next, please join me in welcoming our second panelist, Professor Dr. Harry Purnomo, the Senior Scientist and also Deputy Country Director of SIFOR IKRAF Indonesia and also Professor at IPB University. Good afternoon, Professor. Please do take a seat. Whichever seats you would like to choose. Thank you. And our next speaker, ladies and gentlemen, is Ms. Irene Fishba, the Director Stakeholder of Engagement and Communications of RSPO. Please give her applause for Ms. Irene Fishba. Thank you for joining us. Please take a seat, ma'am. And our fourth speaker, our fourth panelist is Ms. Dia Sura Direja from SPOS Kehati. Can I make a round of applause for Ms. Dia Sura Direja. Likewise, thank you very much for joining us, Mr. Duinanto. So we'll be jumping in the talk show and also that dialogue for this afternoon, our second session. And once again, ladies and gentlemen, please do feel free to ask the questions to our panels and also our speakers. For those of you who are joining us virtually, please do access the Slido. And for those of you who are here at the Borobudur Hotel, you may prepare your questions because we will be having a question and answer session at the end of the talk show or our dialogue. So I would like to jump in to Mr. Duinanto. Mr. Duinanto, to give us a clear understanding and also a perspective this afternoon. Can you please tell us what is the current state of the global food climate and also energy crisis and the geopolitical situations that the global is facing right now? Can you please tell us on the condition that we are facing? Thank you very much, Madam Rautor. And a very good afternoon to everyone. First, I would like to extend my highest appreciation to the organizer for having here. Although I'm online, but I very much hope that we will have a fruitful discussion this afternoon. And also sending a convey the best regard from our Director General for Motor Cooperation, Ministry of Foreign Affairs and also my Director for Development and Economic Affairs. As we all know that after three years of fighting COVID-19, the world economy has been left in fragile state and as the war in Ukraine erupted, the global average growth prospects have been revised downward. The COVID-19 pandemic and war in Ukraine is sending shocks to the world economy. Our countries will be affected by the crisis, but developing countries already hit by the COVID-19 pandemic rising depth and climate change will be hit harder by disruption in food, fuel and finance. The lingering effects are likely to further increase the number of poor and create significant challenges to the realization of global food security. The ability of countries and people to deal with adversity has therefore also been eroding. Today 60% of people around the world have lower real incomes than before. The FAO, for example, in food price index is showing that it's near a track record level and 20.8% higher than this time last year. Worldwide more people have face of your hunger emergencies. In energy sectors, the energy market volatility has increased that will lead to higher energy prices in the medium and long term. Food oil has now reached over $120 US dollar per barrel and energy prices overall are expected to rise by 50% in 2022 relative to in 2021. The achievement of the SDGs target especially SDG7 seems still lack of the track and has not meet the expected target. Indonesia emphasized the importance of the energy transition and includes the dimension of development and needs to go hand in hand with energy security, sustainability and affordability. Indonesia is open for international cooperation including investment in party funding and technology transfer. On climate, the global efforts to tackle climate change also facing many challenges although there has been no empiric data or response to this but many competent parties believe that there are potential risks to the pandemic and conflict toward the climate action. Indonesia is also committed to Paris agreement underlines the necessity of full and effective impact of the agreement. Indonesia climate action, maybe we already hear from this morning session that from the hour and day see, we have committed to reduce greenhouse gases of 29% by our own efforts and 41% with international support by 2030. So the main mission channels generate these all effects are rising food prices, rising energy prices, tightening financial conditions and each of these elements can have important effects on its own but they can also feed into each other creating vicious cycles something that unfortunately is already starting. In one way or another, everyone is exposed to the impacts of climate change the COVID-19 pandemic and the sub-waves of the required racial conflict which pose great challenges in the developing world. Thank you. Alright, thank you very much Mr. Hedwin-Anto. And I would like to also ask the research that probably have been conducted by Professor Harry Pernomo here regarding the current state of the global geopolitical situation and on the crisis that we are all facing. What is it like, Professor? Thank you, Mr. Sara, speaking in Indonesia. Please, Prof. So there are four key drivers of food insecurity. The first one is conflict. And we are facing an extraordinary conflict between Russia and Ukraine. And I just opened a few prices. The oil prices, the gas prices, the energy prices, the gas prices, the fuel prices, the fuel prices. After the conflict between Ukraine and Russia, how much is the inflation of Russia? But I have to say that there is a conflict between Russia and Ukraine because our global supply chain is quite fragile. So there is a conflict between Ukraine and Russia because Russia has been sanctioned by the USA and the EU. So the inflation of energy and gas, even to a country like Germany, is also a threat. Imagine a country in North Africa, a country in East Europe that is very dependent on Russian gas. That is very dangerous. So the first conflict, the second one is climate. We see a lot of global warming, even in China. China, which has always been quite stable, but with the climate crisis, there are a lot of global warming. So when China has 1.3 billion people, the global warming, the demand of Chinese citizens will increase. And of course it will increase the price. And it will cause a crisis for people who are poor. The crisis is for people who are poor. For people who are rich, it's normal. For example, the price of fried rice increases from Rp14,000 to Rp30,000. How much is it? It's only Rp2. One dollar, two dollars. It's not a crisis. So poverty is also a driver of food insecurity. And the last one is inequality. In fact, poverty is enough. Now the global population is 7.8 billion. It is considered that poverty is enough for 9 billion. But not everyone has the same access. People who don't have power, don't have money to buy, don't have access. So it's a crisis for a few people, but not everyone experiences that crisis. And inequality is also like this. People who eat two rings, now they have to eat one ring, it's a crisis. But people who usually eat one ring, become two rings, it's acute. Thank you, Mr. Thank you, Prof. Harry. Yes, what has been mentioned by Prof. Harry before, there are four key drivers of food insecurity, which is conflict, climate, poverty, and also inequality. And we'd like to know more, besides food insecurity, what we'll also be talking more about the global sustainability, especially of the vegetable oil markets, trade, and also the environmental aspect of palm oil itself. And I'd like to further dig the insights from Ms. Irene Fischbach regarding this. What does the global food, climate, and also energy crisis has the impact of those global sustainability, especially the vegetable oil markets, Ms. Fischbach? Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for the question. That's a very important one. I mean, the world is still disrupted as we have heard. I mean, the different crises are still going on. But I think despite all these negative outlooks, we should not forget what we have reached in terms of sustainability over the last years, and also with regard to the palm oil sector. And when I look at our figures from the last two or three years, interestingly, during COVID and now also in the first few months of this year, we have seen an increase in the production and procurement of certified sustainable palm oil. And we have also seen an increase in the uptake, even though the uptake has been a bit slower, but overall the numbers are actually making me very optimistic so that countries and organizations are really staying to their sustainability commitments. And they follow this path. And this gives me hope also going forward. And I think we should really not forget despite everything that might still come that we have made these commitments towards sustainability and we should stay on these paths. And I think the current situation with the high palm oil prices are also an opportunity, especially for the grower companies. It's an opportunity to invest in more sustainable products or in more ethical products. And it's also an opportunity for all of us to look at the smallholders, to work with smallholders, to invest in them to help to build their capacity to support them financially. So it's actually also despite all the crisis, I think it's a good moment in time for us to reflect how we want to go forward. And we should look at what we have reached and take this good energy going forward. From your perspective for what we have reached, what are the gaps that we need to fill? I mean, there's still a lot to do, of course. I mean, especially with regard to certified sustainable palm oil, if we look at the global production and global consumption, certified sustainable palm oil, as we have heard this morning, is just around a fifth of the global production. And of course, I mean, we want to make the palm oil sector more sustainable. We want to transform markets. And our vision is to have 100% certified sustainable palm oil in the future. And in this perspective, there is still a lot to do with regard to production, but also with regard to consumption of certified sustainable palm oil. All right, thank you, Ms. Fischba. And we'll be discussing further during this session. But I would like to also ask Ms. Dia, regarding your perspective on the impacts of our current global condition and what it has on the vegetable oil markets and the sustainability and environmental impacts. Okay, thank you. I just talked to Henry about this question, because it is very, you know, it's not general, but it is a little bit tricky one. It is, I think, with the status of food, climate and energy crisis that they over time in increasing warning. So I think the question about the environmental aspect is often overlooked. Yeah, because if we see, if you are asking about the impact in the palm oil, I think we can see not only about how the palm oil itself to give impact in the environmental, but we have to see that because the vegetable oil demand and production is projected to continue to grow, particularly in developing region, in line with the rising per capita income. And then I think what Indonesia looking for the impact, if we see the impact, yeah, of course for the food, climate and energy crisis. We are in Indonesia is like the under pressure with the issues because always coming, the issues is coming for deforestation issues. I think this is one thing that the impact, because we are in Indonesia still have the weaknesses about the data, about the historical, why the palm oil is growing in Indonesia, because in the heretical and then, yeah, if we see in the for session, all the speakers see that this is, you know, this is the one of the hour giving the economic impact. But for the environmental, I think we still have the stick about the deforestation after the, about the land. So I think, however, some research have also shown that this is the first function of the vegetable oil production in area of the low native carbon stock, for example, if we see the climate issues. So I think what I'm saying is this, if we can, we see is very general, you know, if bringing the palm oil impact to the environment, to the food and climate and crisis, I think for us, the impact is the climate issues could hold the big threat, I think, threat. And then with the increasing frequency and severity of extreme weather over time, and then I think this is the inevitable change in ecological cycle with the unstable yield or productivity of palm oil. I think with the minimal adaptation strategies and unstable or even low productivity palm oil, it would be hard for us to meet in the vegetable oil demand. So this can encourage the company, also small farmers, to carry out land expansion to meet the needs of the vegetable oil. All right. Thank you, Ms. Suradi Reja. And Properi, what are your views? Because it has been mentioned before. I think that the impact or the impact of the economy is also the impact of the environment. What do you think about this as a policy? First, I would like to go to our constitution. I like to talk about our constitution. Udang-Udang Dasar 1945, looking at verse 33, verse 4, it is very explicit, crystal clear, that sustainable development, environment management is there. Our pre-economy has to be implemented, environment management, and the continuation. That is the constitutional message. So regardless of the food crisis, regardless of climate change, we have to contribute, regardless of the energy crisis, we still have to bring the economy with sustainable development. And in verse 28, verse 1, this is what the Minister likes to say, that the environment is good for each country. So, the environment management is also good for me as a country, and we believe that we have to go through it. And I believe, I believe, that we can make food crisis, energy crisis as an opportunity for us to be very, very competitive, to be competitive advantage for our society. So if we can go through this, if there is no corruption in the environment, we can develop well, then we will not be victims, we will not be victims of food crisis, energy crisis, but we will be winners. Whatever happens, because of our constitution, we want sustainability, and I believe we can. The road is quite clear, that there is a problem here, but that is why we exist. Why we exist? We struggling for that sustainability for a long time. So, how do I give up? With the food crisis, energy crisis, we stay in the sustainability of the development, and I believe we can do, I believe the government in the right direction, even corruption is still there, but weakness, weak government, but we can do it. And also the private sector, we believe step by step, even Paoka just heard the environmental sustainability, but I think we can make progress step by step to make sure that private sector, the small world can go in the right direction to sustainable way, become our competitive advantage for the whole sector. Sustainability as a combative advantage. Wudia, you would like to add? Yes, I think I would like to add a little bit. So, if, because I am following the improvement of the climate crisis sector, and I see that the efforts of the government, which have been supported by the private sector, the business sector, the association, the efforts have been good enough. I mean, when ISPO, Indonesia Sustainable Palm Oil Certification, became an instrument to improve the economy, and this is the president who came as a system, I think this is a movement. So, if it is related to the climate crisis, the current climate crisis, this is actually a responsibility. So, unfortunately, many people do not read with detail. So, what does it look like, a clue, but it does not show that the efforts are there. But the first, and the second, the government also immediately instructed all ministries, citizens, to have, to work to build a national action to improve the climate crisis. So, why are you always asking, why are you impressed? Because of the instructions. Instructions directly to the ministries and citizens, even though it is not easy to walk. Because these instructions can be approved, can be something that okay, there is an impression, but this is not supporting for every minister, to make a plan and the intention for this operation is not easy to return the hand. So, this is a process that we also do. What is the main challenge? The main challenge is to return to our responsibility. If I see, for example, the national action plan, the regional action plan, if they see this strategy to improve the appearance of the effort, but if this is just a plan. So, I see this is difficult to find champions in the government's government policy. At the time, the instrument market is playing, like RSPO instrument market, voluntary and other voluntary certifications. This is like they just see incentives. This is not just incentives, this is improvement. So, what is the impact on food and food crisis? I think in terms of tools or policies, I can say this is not anything, but I think we all have to change. Including farmers, there are friends from the farmers association who want to change the future. We have to improve our health. Because again, sustainability is in our basic needs. And also it is about not only addressing the producers, small rural and corporate, but us. If we stop buying uncertified and solve all of the problems, we just need the money to do it. Back to our responsibility as buyers as well. I would like to ask Ms. Fishbine to push further regarding the sustainability issues of the industry itself. From your perspective, what impact does it have to the global sustainable oil market itself? I would just like to add on what has been said before and then I'm going to answer the question. I think the challenges are huge for everyone anyways. No sector can solve the challenges alone and therefore I very much like what has been said. It needs the collaboration between the government. They need to set the right policies. The private sector, civil society and this is why it's really important that we all address the challenges jointly and we work together. And with regard to RSPO it has been mentioned the specificity of RSPO and ISPO for example. So we don't look at the different schemes as competitors. Actually there are a lot of similarities and the schemes are supplementary. So the ISPO is a government driven scheme and while RSPO as you mentioned is a voluntary certification scheme that depends on its members that come all from all across the palm oil sector. But we have started better collaboration with ISPO with MSPO with the governments in Indonesia and in Malaysia we have to foster our collaboration in order to really move ahead and make the sector more sustainable. Fostering the collaboration between all stakeholders. I would also like to ask Mr. Duinanto, would you like to add also your views? The connection is not very good. Can I repeat the question again? Yes Mr. Duinanto, we were just discussing sustainability especially here in Indonesia to also promote the condition and also there have been improvement as mentioned before but how to really improve and also foster sustainability and also the cooperation between all stakeholders? Yes, I think as already mentioned actually by other panelists but I just would like to underline again that the vegetable oil sectors plays a crucial role in supporting the growth of the world economy and trade. For example, the global demand of vegetable oil is projected to expand by 33 metric tons by 2030. Therefore the ensuring sustainable future of next generation will hinge on our ability to produce enough sustainable oil. To this end it is important to acknowledge as well the concrete steps that mentioned by Ibu that have been taken to further promote sustainability of the world. As the biggest producer of palm oil Indonesia remains committed to realize sustainable production of palm oil through a comprehensive policy framework which involves most of the stakeholders cooperation and the most important is the implementation in the field. Thank you. Thank you Mr. Duinanto. Before I jump into the question and answer session ladies and gentlemen I would like to also remind you for those of you who are here offline you may propose your questions through Slido and for those of you virtually please do access it through Slido by scanning the barcode and we will also be having a session later for those of you who are here to prepare your questions to be asked directly to our speakers but before we jump into the question and answer session for the second session I would like to ask to all of our speakers today here what are the measures implemented are probably potentially to be implemented by the stakeholders because we have mentioned that it needs collaboration we need you know fostering sustainability needs a very high collaboration from all stakeholders what measures should be implemented and especially by stakeholders to address the palm oil sustainability in light of the crisis that we are facing right now regardless of its food energy or even climate and probably we could like to ask Mr. Wisnu Lombarduinanto to express your thoughts on this issue first I'm sorry the connection is still repeat again the question no worries Mr. Dinanto what measures can or should be implemented by key global stakeholders to address the palm oil sustainability especially regardless are facing the crisis that the globe is facing right now Mr. Duinanto yes thank you I think such cooperation may cover or be focused on activities of a common interest such as the promoting of the application of holistic and non-disclamated principles sustainable for all types of vegetable and the others and we also have to bear in mind that despite the importance and positive contributes to achieving the sustainable development we noted that there's still unfortunately palm oil continues to be the target for negative campaign but we have to deal with it wisely and we must refrain from using the sustainability principle as a cover to guys of threat protectionism that leads to management of certain types of vegetable oils and at the same time domestically we will try to improve to meet all the sustainability criteria including environmental safe to make a better palm oil industry I think Thank you very much Mr. Duinanto I would like to also ask the same question to Ms. Fishbaugh I think it's very important now that I look at our members especially and now that some of our members have to find alternative supply for sustainable palm oil due to the crisis I mean they cannot source sunflower oil for example and need to switch their supplies and I think it's very important that we adhere to our high standards that we don't deviate from our standards even though it might be a bit challenging but we need to really stick at least to the level that we have we are currently even in a standard revision process because we need to revise our standards every five years we need to adjust them to the current circumstances so I think it's really important that we uphold our standards and that we work with our members to enable them to stick to these high standards because if we don't stick to the standards the damages for the environment and also social damages would even be worse than it is alright that means sticking to the high standards just to make sure and to ensure the sustainability and also the good environment that we have uphold throughout this time thank you Ms. Fishbaugh and Boudiaugh yeah in the long run from Indonesia point of view I think we are still fighting for recognizing of the national scheme in the global market it's not easy process Indonesian is not only from government side also the civil society and also the association still fighting to have the recognition in the global market we want to see a more welcoming view from the buyer countries about Indonesian bomb oil policy and effort until now we still struggling and then for me the step is very important is opening dialogue between consumer and producer countries like Indonesia and Malaysia it is very important step and then I think now Indonesia is have the opportunity co-chairing the dialogue between buyer countries and then we are in the production countries in the fact dialogue forest, agriculture and commodity street I think it is good step for Indonesia co-chairing with the UK government in the dialogue because in the dialogue is very open to discuss about the first is about the trade and market we have the scheme like SWLK this is legal system that is is proven by EU and UK and then the second is about the smallholder supporting because if we agree also from the first session is we are now have the smallholder effort to support and then the third is about the transparency and traceability I think it is the principle also for us for the SPO to have the traceability and then transformation and then the last is about the research and innovation I think from Breen also is very open to have the research and innovation and then I think it is quite good step for us become the, it is trying again to have the global market recognition for the SPO I think that means we have to move forward the dialogues, the transparency and traceability and also research and also innovation that we have to boost in order for going forward and going to the future and professor Harry Pernamo from your point of view from the global buyers and also national security sharing the green premium transforming the current situation into more sustainable palm oil as you say only 19% certified by SPO will quite costly so the buyer have to pay as well as the producer so sharing as Agus Pomer mentioned the buyer have to pay more for sustainable palm oil and the procedure is willing to produce more sustainable palm oil certification is there is some cost for certification and this is the cost of buyer and also the cost of producer and the second one why don't Indonesia be the champion for sustainable palm oil not only following the other countries not manage environment sustainably why should we but Indonesia be the leader why not in palm oil we become the leader the champion of sustainable palm oil in the world I think it's opportunity big opportunity for us in order to achieve that professor Harry what is important for Indonesia to do going forward since we are speaking of roadmap to become the champion we have to solve the illegality of land we have to increase the productivity for small holders we have to make lower work for corporation and sometimes the bad guys is not the corporation of small holders but at the middle the Chukong those who have 100 hectare of oil palm small holders usually indigenous people real farmers they follow the government because they are afraid if it is a big big company they are also exposed to the international market but how about at the middle those who are strong enough the octum from university from police from parliament it's a lot actually it's a lot octum difficult to make lower work for that octum so small scale sometimes easy that why under trade hope we propose the definition of small scale it's not under 25 hectare but under 6 hectare this is according to Mr. Agus Andrianta research it's not for small holder anymore it's for the mid size so again the big corporation is exposed they tend to follow the regulation and the small holders they are afraid they tend to follow the government but at the middle Sambu at the middle is quite difficult sometimes to make lower work thank you and those problems and we have to eliminate people as you mentioned and now we have come to the question and answer session and for the committee I would like to please ask your help to open the and for those of you who are here you may propose a question are there any questions that would like to be presented ladies and gentlemen for the committee please prepare the microphone please who would like to ask thank you my name is Tania I'm a doctoral researcher at the natural resources environmental management at EPB professor Henry congratulations on this new trade initiative and it's really interesting to talk about the global food crisis and we see how this global food crisis and how we weather it down in a national scope and also see how the different approach given by the Malaysian government and Indonesian government in palm oil search and prices and we see how the Malaysian government can manage and control the prices when stock is actually limited in the past semester of this year so lesson learned what we see from Malaysia's palm oil governance is that actually they have this Malaysian palm oil board or MPOB where they integrate all of the permits and necessities to conduct palm oil governance in their country while in Indonesia here we see the palm oil administrations are handled by different and various ministries and agencies for example the palm oil permits is under the Ministry of Agriculture the land use permits is under the agrarian ministry and also the palm oil trade is under the Ministry of Trade we we see that this intersectoral administrations and also the silo between the institutions under the Indonesian government has caused some barriers or handles in controlling the whole palm oil governance so as Ibu Dia Surajireja mentions that all the ministries and agencies have been given instructions to do coordinated efforts but whether the ideas of coordinating this palm oil administration whether it's the permits, it's the trades it's the productions can be more coordinated so at last we know whether the trade initiative is going to address the elephant in the room or it's going to be business as usual in the development project, thank you thank you very much Miss Tanya can I have a big round of applause for our first question from Miss Tanya and next we will pull the questions first and then we'll be answering the questions afterwards the next question I see it's still from the same table thank you and I'm from council of palm oil producing countries so one of our allies in European is European palm oil alliance or APOA who share with us a data that 86% of palm oil of European palm oil imports was sustainable so I'd like to know Miss Fisbah how do you see how do you view this figure 86% of palm oil imports in European is already sustainable that's the claim from APOA I think that's my question thank you alright thank you very much are there any more questions from the floor or probably from Slido are there are there any questions can we present the question up onto the screen this is the first this is the question from Slido probably you can start the answering session in just a minute starting from the question from Slido allow me to read the question how does the development of the future palm oil industry 5 and 20 years which country is the destination for the future palm oil or is the future palm oil export expected to be more sustainable and the national production and for the use of palm oil in the country we will start the answer session probably we can start with the question that is being pulled online from Slido maybe we can start from Ibu Dia we can answer Silah and Ibu Dia thank you I think you have the great questions because we have another crucial thing is also the alignment of the policy among the ministerial this is one the how to say this is one of the still our homework how to the Indonesian government among the ministry can together with working on this issue for the environmental also some commodities strategies and then I think land based land based development by commodities is still a problem and then costly and then like Pa Heri mentioned too many sambol in the process so I can't answer how to solve the problem but I always think that transparency transparency and traceability all the policy related to the use of palm oil it must be opened together to manage the improvement maybe the answer is I think about Epoa you can answer if you ask how to develop the development of the future which country is the destination the most prospect for the export of palm oil I think this should be answered from friends from industry from the ministerial thank you thank you you would like to add to Miss Tanya's question I think we will try to respond to the last question on the the the most many are India and China Pakistan this is part of the opportunity and also part of the problem and part of the opportunity because their economy actually growing and growing and growing the economy of China and India not very much the Europe and UK or US but the economy of China and India China was as well as India so we have to target not only the conventional market but also the uncertified market with certified palm oil I don't know how to do it but try to sell the certified palm oil to uncertified market like China and India and Pakistan and we can be the leader it's not only the follower I mean if the country doesn't actually demand the uncertified why don't we try to sell the certified try to work together with them try to develop market with them and I believe some millennial people some young generation in each country in my understanding it tend to be greener than the old generation so maybe I am wrong but we can try thank you mother thank you very much professor Harry for the answer and now we would like to continue to Ms. Fischba especially in answering Ms. Suji Hari at this question regarding the palm oil imports in the EU I'm not sure whether I understood the question correctly so you mentioned that a poor published at 86% of the palm oil that is imported into Europe is already sustainable and what was the question then I just want to know how at SPO view this data do you agree on that or do you think the data is to overestimate or maybe underestimate whether we find that how do you see that figure your views on the data do you agree on that do you agree that 86% of the palm oil I I mean they have published this figure I don't think that the question is whether we agree or not I mean they import Europe is a big importer of palm oil as we have heard this morning as well and the big part of the palm oil they import is sustainable but they and they want to reach 100% that's also part of the European Green Deal that's the big topic in the current European legislation they work on the current European due diligence legislation that will come into force sometime in the next year we work with our members to ensure that this legislation does not have a very negative impact especially on small holders so we are currently working also on a campaign in Europe to still try to influence the dialogue and to show what is happening in the grower countries and what impact it has in the grower countries similar to what we have seen in the presentation this morning from last week if this legislation is coming into force it will have quite a big impact here in Indonesia and I'm sure most of the representatives in the European countries know this as well but I think it's still worse to work with them and see what can be done that they don't look at this legislation just from a European perspective because then it has negative impacts on the world and in the end we want to leave no one behind that's also a very important topic in the European legislation that they want to be inclusive and I think it's really important to look at all the parts of the world and what impact these legislations have but I think it's a fact I mean it is a fact that Europe wants to work towards 100% import of sustainable palm oil I think that is just something that we have to live with and moving forward it needs also communication in order to establish good cooperation on both sides and also to benefit all stakeholders as well I hope it answers your question yes I see a nod and next are there any more questions from the floor one more time for one more question there is another additional information please give us your opinion and also give us your information thank you we would like to explain the question about the market this is a fact from past release from the last gap after the export was opened the growth of exports to several countries especially Pakistan almost twice as much the EU was also rising then China was rising and India also delegated Mr. Mendak to India and has reached 1 million tons for the CPO ready to export then also Africa so this is what has been sent after the export was closed we have stock the CPO stock is still growing more than 6.8 million tons 6 million 6.8 million in general only 3.5 million tons per month then in May it was closed the CPO stock reached 7.2 million tons then also there is composition needs local consumption local needs and biodiesel the production is 4.2 million tons biodiesel is 4.1 million the production is 1.8 million tons for the export we have the healer industry for the export the biggest is the CPO stock the CPO stock is 8.6 million tons the CPO stock is only 314.000 so for a long time the healer industry that we have then for biodiesel there are small exports 87.000 by Kimia 1 million tons and the total export is 11 million tons for the national production in June it reached 23.500 tons this is on the track although yesterday there was an export the price was expensive so many farmers the price of the CPO stock the price of the CPO stock went up up to 2-3 times this will also disturb sustainability because they are very hard to buy the CPO stock but on one side because of the price of the CPO stock now the price of the CPO stock has gone up up to 2-3 times thank you for talking about the government that has changed and is positive for us to hope sustainability can be achieved and yesterday the CPO Board the Minister of Economics has said that one of the government's commitment is to support the CPO and also for the PSR thank you thank you thank you would you like to add anything? okay it seems since the time is very tight that was the last question that can be addressed for this session ladies and gentlemen can I have a big round of applause for all of our speakers for this session thank you Mr. Wisnu Lombarduinanto please can you please have Mr. Duinanto on to the screen again so I can thank him once again we can give a big round of applause for Mr. Duinanto thank you Mr. Wisnu and thank you to Professor Dr. Harry Purnomo as well, thank you Prof. Harry, a big round of applause thank you Ms. Irene Fishba and also Ms. Dia Suradi Reja ladies and gentlemen