 Welcome to this CUBE Conversation, I'm Dave Nicholson and I am delighted to welcome back to the CUBE, CUBE veteran, Hen Goldberg, VP of engineering from Google. Hen, welcome back to the CUBE. Hey Dave, super happy to be here. Absolutely delighted to have you here. Let's dive right into this conversation. There was a blog post this week talking about Google Cloud putting a lot of weight behind this idea of principles for software development. What are those principles and why are they important? The three principles that we are putting that blog post is open, easy and transformative. And I think what's really important to recognize with those three principles that those are not new principles not for Google Cloud and definitely not for me. I've joined Google about a little bit over five years ago, right when just Kubernetes started to lead Kubernetes and Google Kubernetes engine team. And we immediately recognized, right? And the idea of open and the importance of flexibility and choice is a foundation to the idea of Kubernetes and portability workloads. But pretty early on it was clear that it's not enough just to have portability and flexibility because it creates a lot of complexity. So how can we still have that without creating a trade-off or tension for our customers? So really making sure that everything is also easy. And one of the things I like to say it's not just portability of workload but also portability of skills and you achieve that through consistent experience, right, a lot of automation. And when you bring all of those things together what I love about Google Cloud is that I'm an infrastructure person. I've always been infrastructure person. And what excites me the most is seeing others take this innovation and really empower developers to make amazing or unique ideas a reality. And that's really the foundation principles for Google Cloud. So how does that translate into from a customer perspective? So I will just start with some customer examples, starting from their perspective. So when we think about open, this is actually part of the our customers cloud strategy, right? You say cloud, you merely think only about public cloud. But from our customer perspective, right? They think about public clouds, right? Most of them have more than one cloud. But they also think about the private cloud, IOT edge and having that openness and flexibility to choose where they can run their workload is critical. It's critical for them. What I hear mostly is, of course, innovation, managing cost and also making sure that they are not lucked out of innovation that happens, for example, in any cloud or somewhere else. So that's really a key consideration for our customers when they think about their cloud strategy. The second thing that open matters is that it's really hard to hire talent that is expert and has the right skills. And we see that by using and leveraging open source technologies, it actually makes it easier to our customers to hire the best talent there is in the industry. In one of the previous Google Cloud Next sessions, we had the LaBla, for example, which is the biggest grocer in Canada. And we were joking on stage that even though they are hiring for a grocery shop, they still can hire the best talent because they are using the best technologies out there in the industry. So that's one. If we think about the importance of EZ, I will just call out Western Digital that we've just announced how they decided to standardize on Anthos for their cloud strategy. Both, of course, Google Cloud Platform, but on-prem and the Edge. And for them, what's important is that when they have all of their amazing developers and operators, how can they provide them rich experience? We don't want our developers or operators to spend time on things that can be automated or managed by others. So having a smooth, intuitive experience is really critical. And we've been announcing some new stuff like a Google Cloud deploy that really integrate the entire experience, especially integration for managing deploying directly to Google Kubernetes Engine. And of course, one of my favorite is GKE Autopilot, which really takes all the goodness with Kubernetes and automatically managing it. And then transformative, this is like what I said before, unleashing innovation. We see Wendy's, for example, where they want to actually have AI machine learning at runtime at their branches, which will allow them to create a new experience for their customers. So this is how we see customers really appreciate these three principles. So whenever the subject of Kubernetes and Google comes up, we have to talk Anthos. We're now into what year three of Anthos? How has adoption looked? What's the latest on that front? Awesome, so adoption has been really great. We actually have been seeing a 500% growth on the end of Q2 of year over year. And it's important to know to mention that the journey with Anthos is not something new, but something that we have built with our customers when they really love the experience they have on GCP, but needed to innovate elsewhere and not just on Google Cloud. So we've been seeing that, I mentioned the Western Digital, LaBla and Wendy's, we also have customers like MLB which is really exciting how they've changed the entire fans experience using Anthos. And for them again, it was both the easy part, how can I deal with that complexity of having compute and storage everywhere in every one of the stadiums, but also how can I use AI and machine learning which is unique to Google Cloud in order to create unique experiences for the fans at real time, of course. Yeah, now you've touched on this a bit already. If you had to, if you thought about someone reviewing Anthos, their Anthos experience, because we're in the midst of people adopting Anthos and becoming new to Anthos at this point, what is a delighted customer's response sound like to you? What is that Yelp review that they would write if they were telling people? We doubled down on Anthos and we are thrilled because fill in the blank for us. The first thing that comes to mind is that it works everywhere and the developer experience that comes with it, right? So we have of course the platform and the infrastructure but where Anthos really shine is that experience on top, thinking about our developers and operators that can really work in every environment without paying too much attention to that and just having that intuitive experience, right? If you go to the Google Cloud console, you'll see all your clusters and now we're actually also going to add your VMs into that view and you can use tools like Anthos Config Managers and Anthos Service Smash to manage your security posture or the configuration in all of those environments. So we hear a lot about multi-cloud. Multi-cloud is fantastic but it sounds like dealing with the complexity associated with multi-cloud is something that Anthos definitely helps with. Yes, you know, Google is best with complexity at scale. We've been running containers and really large environments for many years and some of those principles really, you know have been fundamental to the way we've started with Kubernetes. So the idea of the declarative intent and automation is really critical in managing large environment and high complexity, right? Because in those environments, a lot of things can change but with the declarative approach, you don't have to anticipate everything that is going to change but you need to know what is your desired state and that's really one way that Anthos is leveraging the Kubernetes primitives and those ideas to manage different type of environments. In addition to that, it's actually really adding that layer that I talked about before around the easy. Can I make sure that my tools, right? If it's for example, Cloud Hybrid Build or Cloud Deploy or Anthos Service Manager, Anthos Config Manager, can I make sure that this UI, the CLI, the API will be consistent in all of those environments? Can I view in one place all of my clusters, all of my applications? And this is really where Anthos shines. So the Cloud Data Foundation had a get together at the same time as Google Cloud Next and there's been a lot of discussion around topics like security. I'd just like to get your thoughts on what's at the forefront of your mind working in engineering at Google, working in this world where people are deploying Anthos, working in a world where in a multi-cloud environment, you don't necessarily have control as Vice President of Engineering at Google over what's happening in these other clouds. So what are some of the things that are at the front of your mind is security one of them? What are your thoughts? Security is top of mind, similar to all of our customers and definitely internally. And there are many things that we are very worried about or create some risk. We've just started talking about the secure software supply chain by building with open source. How can we make sure that everything is secured? And we know what is the contribution. That's from the software that we are delivering. How can we make sure that the security posture is portable? We talked about workloads portability. We talked about skills portability and experience, but really I think the next phase for us as an industry is to think about security posture portability. Can I really apply the same policy everywhere and still make sure that I have the right controls in place which will have to be different depends on the environment and to make sure that that really is the case. So lots of work and around that. And again, you know, talking about the other things we talked about, we talked about open and flexibility. How can you make sure that it's easy? One of the areas that we are very excited about is really around a binary authorization, for example. So when you use our tools like cloud build, cloud deploy, artifact registry, you can get your container images, images automatically scanned for vulnerabilities and tools like unto service match which allows you to actually manage your security posture, traffic management, who can access what without doing any changes to your applications. Fantastic stuff. As we wrap up our time here, do you have any final thoughts on the direction of cloud, where we are in the adoption curve? You know, by some estimates, something like 75% of IT is still happening on premises. There have been some announcements coming out of cloud next regarding the ability to run all sorts of Google goodness on premises. So we seem to all be acknowledging that we're going to be in a bit of a hybrid world in addition to a multi-cloud world moving forward. Do you want to place any bets on when we'll hit the 50-50 mark or the 25% on premises, 75% cloud mark? What do you think? Yeah, I'm not the best gambler, to be honest, but I do have a thought about that. I think what's interesting is that customers started to talk, you know, a few years back, it was, hey, I have my on-prem environment and I have the cloud. How can these two work together? And now what we see are customers talking, you know, their on-premises, their edge is part of their cloud strategy. It's not separated. And I think this is what we'll see more and more of. Right? Regardless if it is your private cloud, your public cloud, your edge, we would like to have a cloud-like experience in that environment and consistency. And of course, we would love to leverage all the goodness of the cloud if it's like machine learning, AI and other capabilities, automation everywhere we go. So I think this is the biggest change we're starting to see. And in addition to that, I think we will see, today everybody are already multi-cloud, right? If it's through acquisitions just because of a bottom-up culture, you know, people choose different services. And I expect you will see more strategic thinking about our customer's multi-cloud strategy. Where do I deploy my workloads? What are the benefits? If it's latency, if it's specific services that are available, maybe cost, we'll see the customers becoming more intentional about that. And this is really exciting. Well, Han, amazing insights. It's obvious why you're a CUBE veteran. It's obvious why we seek you out for your counsel and guidance on a variety of subjects. Thank you so much for spending time with us today in this CUBE conversation. With that, I'd like to thank you for joining us. Until next time, I'm Dave Nicholson. Thanks for joining.