 Para la siguiente charla está ese en inglés y tenemos el placer y el honor de tener a Wendy como oponente que nos va a contar su experiencia montando a una empresa en Holanda sobre cómo tener o cómo montar una empresa que sea sostenible pero con clientes de presupuestos pequeños. Me gustaría introducir a Wendy, ella es una amiga desde hace muchos años. He conocido ella en Europa de trabajo hace muchos años y ella es un miembro muy activo de la comunidad. Ella va a hablar hoy sobre su experiencia con su empresa, tener una empresa sostenible con clientes de presupuestos pequeños. No sé cómo pronunciar tu último nombre, perdón. Y no sé cómo pronunciar tu Twitter. Es muy feliz. Si quieres mencionar tu nombre en Twitter sobre su hablar, Dolje Lúquic en español. Muchas gracias Wendy, bienvenido. Si alguien de sonido puede bajar a arreglarle el micrófono o si no le doy el de mano. Gracias. Hola, muchas gracias. Bueno, muchas gracias. Cómo muchos de ustedes tienen clientes que les digan que no tienen mucho dinero para una web. Así que el problema es bastante relacionado. Antes de empezar mi historia, Te quiero preguntar un minuto y preguntarte por qué estoy aquí. Porque la pregunta sobre los costumbrados de los bajos puede ser algo que puede darles un poco de sabor a tu boca porque puede que tengas que tener gente para darles dinero que no tienen. Así que escribí un discleimón antes de empezar a decir que no es sobre eso. No voy a decir que no tienen gente para darles dinero que no tienen porque eso no es ok. No es sobre un esquema de gastos, sobre personas fallando por pocos bonitos. Dicen que te dieron dinero y no terminan con nada. Esto no es sobre eso. Y también no es la respuesta a todas las preguntas que podrías tener sobre por qué no tienes dinero. Ok, si te esperas de tener una de estas preguntas respondidas, este es el momento de ir away. ¿Nosotros? Ok. Así que esto es mío. Soy la owner de dos compañías. Vengo de The Netherlands, una pequeña compañía un poco norte de Francia. Y mi una compañía es llamada Website Club, con la que construyé redes sociales. Es una sola prensa, así que soy la owner, soy la única persona que trabaja en ella y trabajo como freelancer. La otra compañía es llamada The Love Doctor, es con el logo de la red. Y lo que hacemos es hacer un entrenamiento para enseñar... Voy a probar esto de nuevo. Una cosa para enseñar a las personas sobre cómo construir las relaciones de salud. Y no es como estudiar algo, pero son las relaciones de trabajo. ¿Cómo trabajas con tus cohólogos, tus bosses, las personas que trabajan debajo de vosotros, los clientes? Puedo poner algunas fotos. Soy también una mamá, veas el pequeño angel en la frente, mi hija es ahora 18, veas la próxima foto, veas las fotos. Como Rotheo dijo, soy muy activa en la comunidad de WordPress, en el país, y en WordCamp Europe. He sido un organizador, he sido un voluntario, he sido un MC. No he sido una compañía, si alguien de la compañía de WordCamp Europe escucha. Me gustaría ser una compañía. Y soy la prouda ownera de un pequeño chico, que está tomando mi casa. Ok, así que esto es sobre mí. Y quiero decirles sobre el viaje que he tenido con mi compañía de Website Club, porque eso es lo que la historia es sobre. Empecé en 2010, empecé, tenía un trabajo, fui el manejo del proyecto en mi ciudad. Empecé porque el budget de la biblioteca fue cortado. No tenía mucho dinero para mí. Empecé a trabajar por mí como un freelancer. Pensé que iba a ser un manejo del proyecto, pero aparentemente hay un manejo de la biblioteca de la biblioteca de Gazillion. Y nadie estaba esperando para mí y nadie realmente lo quería. Así que tenía un trabajo y las personas me preguntaron sobre mi experiencia con Internet y construyendo websites, porque eso es lo que hice para divertirme. Empecé a construir websites para las personas. Y eso fue bastante bien, en realidad. El primer website que construyé fue el Facebook y en el que me encargó €320, que me pensé que era una gran garganta, pero trabajé en las unas tres a cuatro semanas. No hice nada más, y al final de mes tenía €320 para pagar mis billes. No sé cómo los gastos están en España, pero con €320 no puedo pagar mi renta y tener comida en la mesa. No es doable. Empecé mi compañía, empecé a trabajar y pensé, no tengo suficiente dinero, tengo que trabajar más. Más, más, más. Más costumers. Y porque estaba trabajando con las personas que necesitaban mi ayuda, pensé que necesitaban mi ayuda, me dijeron que necesitaban mi ayuda, pero no tenían dinero. Fue un poco miedo para cargar mucho. Y se terminó creating, bankrupt, almost burned out with no money, and the kid and a lot of customers who are paying me a little money. So I thought about it and I thought okay, so people told me I need to work on bigger projects because bigger projects have bigger budgets. You'll be part of a team, you'll be working in a marketing team, you'll be working with a content creator and a photographer and SEO person and Entonces, me hicieron eso y me trabajó. Me dijeron más dinero, los proyectos eran más grandes, tenía que trabajar un poco menos, pero me dijeron más dinero, me hicieron una vida, pero me estaba tan feliz. Me gustaba trabajar en un equipo, me gustaba mucho, así que no era la respuesta para mí. Entonces, decidí que necesitan cambiar esto, necesito encontrar una manera en que puedo hacer lo que quiero y hacer dinero y pagar mis billes. No sé si es realmente, no es cool, pero me gusta hacer mi propia cosa y cuando estás en un equipo, no puedes hacer eso, así que me ha platicado con el equipo. Hice algo más, y me voy a compartir eso con vosotros. Ok, entonces me terminó la conclusión de ayudarte a las personas que me gustan y hacer dinero, o como, es uno o el otro. Puedo ayudar a las personas, o podría hacer el dinero, pero puedo hacerlos todos en el mismo tiempo. Y eso, en mi mente, me hizo una conexión con la desconexión, porque pensé que esto no debería ser, esto no debería ser correcto, debería ser posible hacerlos todos. Entonces, lo que hice, para figurelo, empecé a hacer un curso. En WP Elevation, ¿pueden saber de WP Elevation? Es un curso y ellos te enseñan a mejorar tu trabajo y prácticas. Es específicamente para las personas en el business de WordPress. Y ellos tienen un blueprint, y en 6 semanas, y en 6 semanas, te enseñarán todos los procesos y todos los tipos de herramientas que puedes usar para obtener tus clientes por tu negocio más rápido y para tener un mejor trabajo. Básicamente, eso es lo que ellos hicieron. Y también he enrollado al mismo tiempo en Fizzle. ¿Pueden saber de Fizzle? Fizzle es una pequeña compañía americana. WP Elevation es australiano. Fizzle no es una pequeña compañía americana, pero es una compañía americana. Ellos dicen que ofrecen cursos y son verdaderos, así que puedes hacer cualquier curso que quieras en cualquier momento. Y lo que dicen ellos es que te den una vida haciendo algo que te cuidarán. Entonces, esta línea de tag ha realmente hablado conmigo porque es lo que quiero. Quiero que te den una vida haciendo algo que te cuidarán. Si estás interesada, Fizzle tiene un excelente, increíble podcast. Puedes escuchar. Tienen más de 300 episodios. Así que puedes conseguir el sabor de lo que les ofrece. Y lo que he trabajado entre los dos cursos es que hay tres preguntas que necesito responder para resolver este problema. Necesito saber qué hago, qué hago, cuánto dinero necesito porque estaba justificando y estaba pensando si los billes no fueron pagados. No estaba gastando suficiente, pero no sabía cuánto realmente necesitaba. Así que eso fue la cosa. Y la última cosa fue, ¿cómo traigo estos dos juntos? Entonces, ¿por qué hago lo que hago? ¿Has alguno de vosotros preguntado aquella pregunta? Especialmente los entretenidos. ¿Por qué haces lo que haces? Es una de las preguntas más importantes. Y si lo has respondido y si lo has respondido correctamente, te ayudará a hacer las opciones mucho más fáciles porque puedes siempre ver con tu mismo. Cuando algo viene, ¿es esto ayudando mi por qué? Entonces, para mí fue muy difícil porque estaba como sí, quiero hacer un vivo y quiero apoyar a mi familia. Quiero tomar un viaje todos los días. Quiero ayudar a la gente, a las personas que me gustan y quiero hacer websites porque es un poco divertido. Entonces, estuve cansado. Y luego encontré a Marie Forleo, a MarieTV. No sé si lo has escuchado, pero si no lo has visto, porque es muy inspirado. MarieTV, y ella dijo, si no sabes lo que quieres, si no sabes lo que te pases, haz este ejercicio. Y fue este ejercicio. ¿No sería genial si? Y luego responda. Y luego, tres veces responde, ¿por qué es eso importante a mí? Y lo haces 7 días en un río por 15 minutos. Puedes seguir escribiendo, seguir escribiendo. Entonces, hice eso porque quería la respuesta y estaba desesperada por el dinero y las respuestas. La otra cosa es que podría conseguir un trabajo, pero no quería eso también. Entonces, hice esto, y para mí, esto fue el resultado. Las cosas que son más importantes a mí. Quiero cuidar a mi familia. Soy una madre sola. Soy la única que trae dinero. Así que, esa fue mi primera prioridad. Quiero hacer suficiente dinero para que las billetas estén pagadas, y yo y mi hija no tienen que ir y vivir en una caja. Si puedo hacer mi trabajo de cualquier manera, quiero trabajar con personas que necesitan mi ayuda y que me gustan. Porque hay muchas personas que necesitan mi ayuda y hay muchas personas que no me gustan, pero si quiero elegirlo, quiero trabajar con personas que me gustan y personas que necesitan ayuda porque si no quieren mi ayuda, estoy totalmente usada y mi energía es totalmente abierta. Quiero tener una balance en la vida de trabajo porque tengo totalmente de trabajo haciendo solo trabajo y quiero vivir conmigo. Para obtener esto en mi vida, empezé con el último. Empecé a jugar. Empecé un golf course solo porque quería hacer algo que fue divertido para mí. Solo algo totalmente útil porque mi vida había sido un esfuerzo por tantos años y yo estaba tan cansada y yo justamente quería tener algo divertido. Entonces mi consejo a ti es que cuando te sientas como si estás sufriendo a los entreprenarios, a los singleprenarios, sé que eres. La vida puede ser difícil cuando eres responsable, cuando eres solo responsable para llevar el dinero. Encontré algo que es solo para divertirme porque lo ayuda. Empece todo el resto. Empece más fácil. Empecé ahí y empecé a jugar golf y yo no pensé que me gustaría, pero me gustó. Empecé a hacerlo. Y luego empecé a mirar mi balance en la vida de trabajo. Entonces, ¿cómo muchos de vosotros han oído cómo spending su tiempo como en un día normal? Un par de manos. Puedes intentarlo y luego intentarlo 3 o 5 días en una ruta. Te habrás sorprendido porque pensé que spendé más de mi tiempo trabajando. Bueno, en realidad, lo hice, pero también spendé 3 a 5 horas a día justamente scrollando social media que no es útil si te sientes presionado. Entonces, hice dos cosas. Decidí, ok, ¿qué son las cosas que quiero spending my time on? Y ¿qué son las cosas que estoy spending my time on, que no quiero spending my time on? Entonces, las cosas que quiero hacer es, again, spending time with my family, having some fun, do some work, be with friends and also do some caregiving jobs that need to be done. Entonces, I took a good look. I just, the tools I use are pens and papers and lists. I just created lists. And then I wanted to support my family. So I had to calculate what do I need to support my family? It's a number. It's just a set number. And Nilo was talking about minimal viable product. The people who were here in the previous talk. Well, the minimal viable income is like that. Except it's about the money that goes to you. So how much do you need? What minimum do you need to just get through the month? And it's really easy calculation. It's just how much expenses do you have? It's really simple. It's rent. It's electric. It's water. It's gas. It's the internet. It's the phone. It's whatever you, whatever things you have to pay every month and food. Right. Don't forget the food because I calculated it and I was like, this is a really low number. And then I thought I need to eat as well. So you have your minimal viable income, which is the amount you need to pay yourself to pay your bills and eat. And you add that you add your business expenses to it and the taxes you need to pay for the first few years I forgot to pay my taxes which was very expensive in the years after that because the taxes will come and get you. So calculate them in as well. And then you get a number. I chose a random number. And that is what you have to bring in a month. And when I looked at my number, which is my random number, when I looked at my number I was like 3,000 euros a month. How am I going to do that? Because I didn't know how to price my products. I was just doing something. What I just I guessed it and that's what I did. So to get it to make it easier for myself I broke it down into little bits. If I want to make 3,000 euros a month there these numbers like 160 working hours a month and 50% billable hours. Those are just known facts. I got them off the internet and with my registration it seems that it's quite correct in some weeks and some weeks it's not. But average it's quite okay. So if I need to make Is there a light in the sink? If I need to make 3,000 euros and I have 80 hours per month I need to make at least 3750 per hour. And 3,000 euros was like a huge amount for me but 3750 was like I can do that. I can make that. The same with the other two numbers. So it made it for me it made it much easier to grasp the numbers and to think I can do this. I can get this money. So the last thing I wanted to do is I want to work with people I like. So I call them lovely customers. In my story it's a her because I ended up working mostly with women. It doesn't mean that it has to be a lady but in my story it is. So my lovely customers I needed I wanted to work with people I like. So to get to that point I needed to find out what kind of people do I like. So what I did I looked at customers I already had and picked the ones I liked most. The ones that were never a burden the ones that when they called I actually picked up the phone and was not like oh my god you again no I'm not here. And the ones that that listened to me and did what I told them to. So I checked those and there were some things they had in common. They were single printers so they worked alone. They rented themselves by the hour to companies. They were hands on people so they weren't really like yeah the website yeah yeah yeah you do it or we need some graphic yeah yeah yeah you do it. They wanted to get in the dirt and wanted to do it themselves and they were creative people. And I put the blah blah blah blah blah blah blah because in the end after making my list I was like this is not what it's about. This is not these are easy things to check but this is not what it's about and it came down for me to this my lovely customer is somebody I would invite me into my home when they show up unannounced and that became my single criteria. Everybody who calls me and says I want to be your customer and I'm like yeah you are never coming to my house because I'm not even giving you my address. I send them to someone else. So this is quite important to me and it is a very strong and very easy check because I can feel this in my belly when I meet you I know if you are one of them or not. It doesn't mean I'm not going to like you or I'm not going to be nice to you I will but this check I will know. So for me this was like it all came down all the other things well you can check them if all the other things are true but for me for my business for my customers this was the check. Are you still with me? Cool. Ok. So doing all this investigation still only using paper and pens and lists what kind of help can I offer my lovely customer who is allowed in my home anytime they ring my bell so that so they can pay me a part of my 3000 euros or maybe a big part but assuming that the people that come to me tell me they have low budgets or no budgets I assume it's a part of the 3000 euros So that was my question I was going to work with Ok. New investigation To get to the answer of this I had four I listed four questions that I needed to answer to get to the point What does my lovely customer think she needs? What does she actually need? How can I align these two? So that it is helpful and affordable for her and profitable for me because my lovely customer if she says she has no money she is not a customer Remember this if someone comes to you and says they have no money you say thank you very much for thinking of me come back when you have some money It doesn't have to be much but there has to be money people that don't pay you are not your customers they are your charity Ok. Remember that So what can I do to be helpful and affordable to her and profitable to me And I added the last question I added later because I thought yeah, I've been doing this work for like five years it is like insane to find total new ways because I have been paying the bills not all of them on time but I have been paying them and I am already doing something right So I decided to investigate that as well So I started what do I already do because I did help people I did send them an invoice they did pay me and that was basically the easy part except for my business process was like a big blurry like a big mess of all kinds of things I kind of did and things they were kind of could ask me and things I could kind of answer So I had to figure out what steps are specifically in my business I will get back to that later how I broke it down So what does my lovely customer think she needs because I noticed that what someone needs and what someone thinks they need are like two totally different things I don't know how it is with you but with me people call me and they say Hello Wendy I need a website Can you help me? I need a website is like such a big thing that I often think that's not exactly what you need and that is not like the question that you have for me there are like a couple of questions before that and there are questions after that I need a website is the big question that just containers all of them but that is not I could give them a website and they wouldn't be helped right? So she thinks she needs a website but what she actually need I figured it out is superwoman or me with a lot of wind what she needs is someone to break down the website process someone to put it into little steps someone to hold her accountable because it's a hand on person she wants to write to content herself she wants to take the photos herself she wants to pick the images herself but if there's no one telling her you need to have it done by the first of next month it is not getting done so she needs someone to break down the steps what it takes to create a website and she needs someone to be accountable to and I decided that was going to be me so I broke it down break it down is my new thing the services I offer it was a big big pile of blurry mud whatever and I broke it down to these five things when you create a website for a customer who is new to being an entrepreneur and who doesn't have much money there are a few steps they need to take they need to find out who they are what their product is and what their ideal customer is and then you can create content based on that they need a design you need to educate them on how to use their website because the website is worthless if you're not using it and there needs to be some maintenance done somewhere in the process so these are the services I offer which also for myself made it clear because when someone asked could you help me with social media I'm like is that within that list? no, it's not I'm sorry I can send you to someone else who can help you but that is not what I do ok and I decided having made all my lists there are four areas where I could win where I could really make big step forwards in not having so much fuss and those were standardized automate, outsource and healthy boundaries I will go through them step by step so standardized who here works with standardized things standardized emails forums checklists this is a game changer this really is all, not all but most of my emails and most of the things I have in my company are standardized which means I never have to think about things that need to be done because it's just a list when someone calls me hello Wendy I would like a website I send them a standardized email hey we had a phone call and you want a website here are the things you need to do before we get together first checklist I have some questions about what your website needs to be about forum when they send it back to me which is a check I mean I don't have to worry about the customer calling them or if they don't send back the things it's not my customer so forums and checklists and standardized emails are like magic power because first of all you get done with things so much faster you don't have to think about it you can write them in your own tone of voice whatever you like I always put something funny, twisty, smiley thingy in it and it is already it's done so you change the name and you fill in and you send them the forms and they can get to work and the thing is people really feel helped if you send them a checklist they really feel helped because now they know instead of thinking I need a website where on earth am I going to start they know okay so I need to create content for the homepage which is going to be the answer to the question I am blah blah blah blah and I help blah blah blah blah with blah blah blah blah you have that you filled it filled in the sentence check okay next on the homepage there is going to be I it's just a checklist so I created PDFs in word these are mine styling but I still use them so this is the standard checklist for a page I wrote down when you create a page this has got to be in it you have to use at least 300 words make paragraphs of maximum 100 words and you can actually put a check in the round circle so I have the same thing for product pages and I have the same thing for the about me page I have the same thing for images I have the same thing for blog posts I have it for everything so standardize it's a real it's also a time saver automate was my next step I have 10 more minutes I'm going to speed it up a little automate was my next step I think we all know what automate is I created a standard WordPress installation with all the plugins I wanted all the themes I wanted and I found a hosting company that I can easily duplicate so it's just whenever someone says I need a website I press one button and it's there I did the same thing with my bookkeeping and maintenance and outsource I put it in I didn't put it in at first but I put it in because it is really something that makes you win a lot of time and win a lot of brain space and this is I think this is the most important one it's the healthy boundaries because whenever a customer came to me and they were like yeah, we need to talk and I would talk with them and we would talk about the website and I was like okay, they're going to be here an hour and they stayed for two, three, four hours and then the work wasn't done and I thought well the work is not finished so I should finish it for them so I quit everything people pay for all my time so I limited the most important thing is I limited access to me you can hire me but then for every minute you spend with me you pay me that is like super clear if you want to call me fine you pay me and we make an appointment I decide when we get to call not you so I stopped answering my phone and I stopped giving my time away and I stopped giving my knowledge away except from the standardized forms and systems and I healthy boundaries basically that was for me one of the most important things so I freed up a lot of time from not saying yes to odd I have a really quick question can you help me with this all I have something that needs to be changed can you help me with this and the answer is always no I can't I can help you but I can help you then and then and it's gonna cost you so much so it ended up with my services I created that most of it is standardized outsourced or automated and the things that I am involved in are strictly bounded so it changed my system a little bit because I thought that the discovery phase where people find out what they wanna offer and what the product is and what they're about could be totally standardized and optimized but it didn't work so I put in a discovery session where they spent time with me and we do it together we fill out the forms together and it creates a lot of clarity and they pay me for it but I also did because I mean how much is a website I don't know what you charge but I used to charge around a thousand fifteen hundred euros which was for many people way too much I cut it up in pieces so the total charge is fifteen hundred euros if you buy this package but you pay it in pieces a discovery session is two hundred sixty euros content creation you can do it by yourself so you get it for free design is like five or six hundred euros so and you decide as a customer you decide when you wanna spend the money so you don't have to buy this all at once you can do a discovery session create your content by yourself get a website that is not designed but WordPress websites look quite fine without explicit design and go and work a year make some money and then get a designer and have your website design so I created small blocks small packages and together instead of offering one big thing I offer small services and the extra bonus of that is that people can take as long as they want for creating their content because I'm not waiting they pay their discovery I really don't care if they take a week for creating their content or a year because I can plan my own time with other customers ok so I created this list and I tried it and it worked and like I told you with the discovery not everything worked so I adjusted it and I'm still adjusting it but for now I am easily making my minimal viable income easily serving customers that are paying me like between 200 and 500 euros per per time they are happy I am happy because I get to help quite a lot of people you do need to have a big chunk of people to make a living in low budget customer land but the things I learned are and I want to share them with you random order kind of not really money isn't everything but worries about it will take over your life if you don't have any that goes for me but that also goes for my customer because if they need to spend 1500 euros on a website they don't have that is not a relaxed place to be in the same goes for me if I don't have any money then every customer who might be interested I am going to go after them like a crocodile smelling a a piece of chicken and that is not a healthy relationship that is not healthy so money isn't everything but worries about it will take over your life if you don't have any so make sure you take care of yourself first that means you need to get a job to get your business going do that because it has been tested again and again it's been social studies about it when you live in poverty your brain does not work you can't think about the future you can't think about things you want to do, you want to grow your brain works differently when you live in poverty when you have money worries so take care of yourself first money I also noticed money is never the problem it is like a big chunk of money or it is that people don't know what they're spending the money on or people don't want to give you the money but money is actually never the real problem the same with me I thought my problem was my customers weren't paying me enough but that really wasn't the problem the problem was that the systems I had and the way I worked was not serving them in a way that was profitable for me so money is never the actual problem again, reminder if someone says they have no money they are not a customer okay okay so I did two courses which helped me very very much WP elevation and fizzle find information online there is so much you can find so much and you can take it and tweak it and make it your own and you can learn from it so you don't have to invent the view just try whatever is out there see if it works for you and if it doesn't try something else because all systems work it really does, they all work you just have to find the right one for you so these are my takeaways all systems work learn from others money is never ever the problem take care of yourself first money is never the problem and it isn't everything the answer to everything but worries about it will screw you thank you thank you so much Wendy there was enlightening I'm sure that so many of us can take away a lot of lessons I still I'm still working on all this and you are a star thank you so much now we have the another break in five minutes but if you have questions we can stay because there's no hurry to leave the room and also if there's any of you that want to ask in Spanish first and I'll translate to Wendy so we can do it that way if you want ok bueno pero no quería decir que si claro lo digo en español pero luego he pensado si están aquí entienden inglés a lo mejor no tienen ganas de hablarlo pero claro que lo entienden o si no no estarían aquí pero lo digo también en español si queréis preguntar en español lo podemos traducir a Wendy vale hello Wendy thank you can you share the checklist or is personal no, I need to share it because it's in Dutch what is always Google we need to share it so I work in Dutch so my all my things are in Dutch but I can it's basically the Yoast checklist the Yoast Yoast SEO plugin you know you when you have the plugin installed in your WordPress they have like this checks do you have an image does it have an old text do you have it's basically that and then I redesign it a little and put my words in it and it's in Dutch and then I'm like here you have a checklist made it for you so you can you can see it in the Yoast plugin anybody else I have a history of having traveled so you know to clients often because they get offended and everything so I went to the club yay so I wanted to know when you talked about what kind of clients you didn't like you told you send them away to another person but how do you deal with rejecting a client what kind of cricks do you use so they don't get offended or right right so there are two answers to this question first of all I train myself in being offensive that is like a really really healthy and good skill to have no seriously you're laughing about it it is really really important to be able to say no don't explain it don't excuse yourself just say no and you can practice it with like you like you you can practice it with with things that are not very important like when someone ask you in on the street do you have any money no don't excuse it don't sorry no I don't have any cash on me no just say no so practice being offensive and saying no that is important and the second thing is I always give them a little thing to get them I am not saying no I can help you and what you are asking is stupid and I'm saying okay I am not the right person for you but you can go and ask this person or maybe you can try the forums or you can try this or I always have something to help them move forward sorry an alternative for what they are asking of me but the most important thing is really just practice saying no anymore let's have some drink oh and once you said yes to that client how do you deal with this kind of client who says I'm not take the client content look but he never sends the content no yeah better okay so you said yes to this client yes and he says he don't want the client content look or whatever or the same look but he never sends you the content and you start working you spend these hours but okay so when my client says yes to me they first get a checklist because they need to create content and they send it to me in a Word document or in a Google Drive document one or the other so I can check it if they did their homework the next thing is that when they didn't when they don't send me the content I don't do any work so they said yes they want a website not me I mean they said yes I send them the checklist it's homework they have to do if they are not doing it fine by me if they did it they send me they sending me an email okay so I did all the homework the the files are in the Google Drive I picked up pictures there has been a profile pictures taken I think I'm done can you check it I check it and then we make an appointment and before that and then when it's not when it's not complete or when it's not correct I just don't start working so and that is also very clear I need to have this I need to have all the content for the home page I need to have all the content for the about us page I need to have all the content for your product page or pages and I need to have the content for your contact page that is it for things and all the content is text, videos, images everything if it's not complete I do not start working for you so I don't I don't mind how long you take because I have a lot of the thing with the the good thing for me with working with the small chunks of of customer is like I get to do a lot of different things in my week which I really like because I only plan a week ahead and customers email me and I'm like yeah, let's plan a date and see you next week so it's always your term and always small chunks of work for me as well I know I have to say that I know Wendy very well and I learned from her I'm so privileged because I keep learning from her all the time and there is a lot to learn one thing that Wendy does that is controversial and those of you who know WP elevation will understand is that Wendy does not take a deposit I have been told I have also done lots of business courses I've done WP elevation and what they say is do not even touch a project until the client gives you at least 50% or a third depends on the length of the project or the size Wendy doesn't do that and I was like what are you crazy? That's like but she is right because she doesn't start working she keeps the proposal really short so you don't take a long time in sending a client a proposal do you? you just stand exactly standardize there you go so she doesn't take I spend I spend so long on proposals so I usually get charge for a proposal which makes it much more difficult because the client goes oh I should charge you to give me a proposal how that you know so she doesn't take any money first which means that it gives her the freedom to not care so now what's happened to me is that about nine months ago a client paid for the whole website it's a small project so he paid in advance everything I still don't have the content I'm having to helping getting to the Google Analytics account I've done lots of hours of work and I still haven't built the website and I hate him and I don't want to build the website because that money is gone ages ago so I think this is and to me every day I think oh my god maybe I should do like Wendy does and not do like the other courses tell you so it's very much related to what you were saying so do be like Wendy basically that's what I'm saying