 On behalf of the association of surgeons of India, nothing gives me more pleasure than to warmly welcome you, Sadhguru, to the primetime program that is being held during the 80th annual conference of our association on a virtual platform. Sadhguru, our association, the association of surgeons of India is Asia Pacific's largest and the world's second largest surgical association after the American College of Surgeons. And the association represents practicing surgeons and surgical trainees from across the country and also specialists like the oncosurgeons, breast surgeons, surgical gastroenterologists, colorectal surgeons, genitourinary surgeons, rural surgeons, endocrine surgeons and we also have surgeons from the armed forces, all of them come under this umbrella organization. And traditionally every year during the conference, the president of the association is invited to deliver the presidential oration. So for a change to break the monotony, I thought I must break this monotony and have a luminary, have an engaging conversation with a luminary and it is such a great privilege to have you, Sadhguru. You escaped your responsibility and putting it on me, I'm an uneducated guy, what will I do with you surgeon, sir? It has been a great blessing, you know, and is a high point in my life to have you in a conversation at this conference congress. Thank you. So we start off with a few questions, Sadhguru, and thank you very much for your time. So as surgeons, we try to do our very best and we use all our knowledge and skills to ensure the best possible outcome for our patients. But despite our best efforts and doing all that is required, occasionally things don't go as we expect, things to go. And what happens sometimes is that patients whom we expect that they would recover, in front of our eyes, they rapidly deteriorate and there is nothing much we can do to save them. Sadhguru, how does a surgeon deal with this difficult predicament both as a healthcare professional and as a fellow human being? Well, when somebody puts their life into our hands, it's a tremendous privilege, responsibility and an honorous responsibility. Sometimes with terrible consequences, because after all, as a surgeon, you're using a knife. Normally in social terms, if someone says, I was knifed, it means somebody tried to kill me. Because putting a knife into somebody, not to take life, but to fix life, is a tremendous thing. It's a very courageous thing to do. Well, the complexity of what human mechanism is, this is the most complex system on the planet. Of all the many things that we have, the most complex system on the planet is human mechanism, which is a consequence of millions of years of evolution. Now surgically fixing something within that means you're mechanically intervening in a machine, a sophisticated machine, which is still running. It's not an autopsy. The machine is still running and it must run better after the surgery. If you allow me to tell you a joke, because I feel surgeons should be a joyful lot, because with this responsibility of opening up somebody's belly or somebody's head or somebody's something which is dangerous to open and not have nerves about it, needs a joyful, balanced human being. So this happened in United States. A cardiac surgeon was having little trouble with his Mustang, car, Ford Mustang, and he went to the local mechanic. So the mechanic said, you leave it here, I'll have it ready for you for tomorrow morning. So next day morning the surgeon took a taxi and went to the mechanic shop. The car was untouched and not ready. So the mechanic said, no, no, on your way back you come, I'll fix it. So the surgeon on the way back from the hospital in the evening, again he came back, still it was untouched and not ready. Then the mechanic said, come tomorrow, definitely I'll have it ready. Again the next day morning he came and still it was not ready. Then the surgeon asked, say what's the problem? Three times have come and still the car is not ready, you've not even opened it and seen what is the issue. Then the mechanic swaggered around a little bit and he said, hey doc, see, you fix engines, I fix engines. How come you have paid twenty-five times more than me? So the doctor looked at him and said, okay, try to fix a running engine, let me see. So switching off the engine and fixing it is one matter. When it comes to a human being, surgery is fixing the engine when it's running and it must continue to run. If it stops with the surgery, that is not a successful surgery. But the risk of putting your hands inside a running engine is always there because it's such a complex system and just about it is not necessarily… mistakes can happen of course, but it's not necessarily due to your mistake. You may do everything right and still the patient can die, as you said. Because it is such a complex mechanism, it is not just based on the mechanical aspect of what it is. There is a karmic substance, there are other dimensions of life which are not even within the purview of the surgery. The purview of the surgery is purely mechanical aspect of the body. That itself is too complex for anybody to understand. I'm saying you may study for a lifetime of medicine, still a really good doctor knows that he knows just enough to do a few things, but nobody really knows the entire system in its entirety. That is why the knowledge keeps growing endlessly. Believe me, after another thousand years of medical sciences, it will only get more complex. It will not get more simple. This we are realizing, isn't it? Now for each… each part of the body, there is a doctor. There was a time hundred years ago, there was only one doctor for your entire family. But now for your children separate doctor, for your wife separate doctor, for you separate doctor, for your parent separate doctor, that is not the only thing. For your eye separate doctor, nose separate doctor, heart separate doctor, the way we are going into specialties, expertise clearly demonstrates the complexity of what we are looking at. And another thousand years, if you look at it with the same intensity as 20th and 21st century has, believe me, you will still have surprises, you will still have things that you do not know, still many things will not be in your purview. Even if you… so if you go like this to do a surgery upon a person or to treat a person, you will need a hundred different doctors for different parts of the body. We are getting there because of specialization, specialization, which will create so much complexity in the knowledge that we have that to analyze and get to a solution will become difficult already it is becoming like that. So I am not saying this with any negative context to medical science, all I am saying is you are dealing with something that complex and you are trying to fix it with whatever knowledge we have today, all right? People have been doing surgery from the time of Sushruta but at that time they did surgery from whatever they knew best at that time. Today we are doing surgery from whatever we know best at this time. Hundred years later our surgeries may be very, very different. Our surgery capability what it was 25 years ago, what it is today is unimaginable but still it is very limited because that is the nature of creation. It is so absolutely complex and sophisticated. It is not for nothing that human being is a peak of evolution on this planet. It is the most sophisticated machine. So inevitably not all of it is under your purview and many of those dimensions are not, many of those dimensions are not even physical. So you can't see it, your instrument can't measure it. Nothing in medical science can tell you about those things. You are fixing one part of it but still not all of it. Very true Sadguru, human body is very complex and as you said the most complex body that is there but the corollary to what I just asked you, surgeons on a daily basis we operate on seriously ill patients some of whom have significant comorbidities and in these patients we don't expect very good outcomes but there is always a guarded prognosis in these patients but from time to time we see miracles happening and in those patients that we don't expect to recover quickly in those patients we expect that they stay for a prolonged period in ICU because of the various comorbidities and because of the illness itself but they bounce back, they recover remarkably soon and they lead a normal life and how does one explain these miraculous happenings? See for a patient or for his relatives and loved ones that he was, they thought he's going to die but they came, the patient came for a surgery post surgery he recovers in a month's time is back to normal that is a miraculous experience for them and it's great that they see it that way but a surgeon should never think his surgery is a miracle he must always be in awe of the miracle of the human body you're doing a mechanical job, you know what you're doing but if you think you're performing a miracle then there will be a disaster patient thinks it's a miracle, that's good for him to see it that way but you should never think that you're performing a miracle because that will lead to a disastrous process there will be no medical science left, something else will happen so the miracle is the way creation is how it is capable of doing things we are making a small intervention it's our privilege that life has allowed us it's your privilege that somebody allows you to open their body they won't allow their loved ones to do it I'm saying hello if somebody says I want to open your heart and see will anybody allow? no but they allow you to do that it's a tremendous privilege we must always bow down to that trust that somebody is offering to you that they're willing to knife them they're willing to allow you to knife them, you know? that is a tremendous trust how many people can earn that trust in their lifetime from anybody around them so they're offering that you may be out of helplessness but you don't look at their side from your side you look at it that they are privileging you with something that they do not honor their parents or their spouse or their children with but they're giving it to you they will not allow their wife or husband to open their heart and see what is inside but they'll allow you it's a tremendous thing so let not the doctor ever think he's performing a miracle he is doing a little bit of re-engineering for a fantastic engineering which is already there a little bit of re-engineering so what is a miracle in one person's experience he's actually engineering in another person's experience or knowledge so as far as you are concerned you are doing a mechanic's job for a very sophisticated machine see right now if somebody is driving a bus we call him a driver but if somebody is driving an airplane we call him a pilot similarly if somebody is fixing a bicycle we say he's a mechanic if somebody is fixing a spacecraft we say he's a scientist similarly you are a surgeon but actually the job is mechanical there's nothing wrong with that I keep describing myself as a mechanic people ask Sadhguru but you are not doing any miracles you are not blessing as no gold chain is coming I can add one medal to you if you want actually I think you misunderstood my comment that I don't think that we are doing a miracle no no I did not no I got the question but I am just saying not just for you a doctor the one who performs he should never think it's a miracle he should look at it as mechanics another person experiences a miracle that's fantastic you know that is the privilege you have I am saying though you are only exercising what you have studied and understood somebody else thinks it's a miracle the same with me everybody thinks I am causing miracles all I clearly know I am only exercising the knowledge and knowing that I have what I perceive is what I am doing similarly what you perceive about the human body is what you are doing you are not doing a miracle but how fantastic it is somebody thinks you are conducting a miracle isn't it fantastic such a privilege I am saying never ever complain about that privilege it's a tremendous privilege but at the same time it comes with the responsibility that sometimes the miracle that they expect does not happen you may know mechanically that this is not going to work but you may give it a try hoping something will happen but when the miracle doesn't happen to their end they are very deeply disappointed because somebody is dead or somebody does not recover or whatever happens as a consequence so this is a transaction where two different parties are looking at it differently one is expecting a miracle another is trying to exercise his knowledge so it's a very tender kind of relationship the very big responsibility as a surgeon so one of the major limitations Sadhguru in a surgeon's life is to lead a balanced life a surgeon cannot work from 9 to 5 many times the operating goes on very late and we start very early as well and it's all the time work work work leave early in the morning and sometimes many of us come back very late and this creates a lot of tension at home the family is not happy and the kind of environment a happy environment which should be at home once you come back sometimes is missing so how does one strike a balance and yet lead a peaceful content and happy life so essentially you are saying too many surgeries but not enough surgeons in the world so one thing is we must definitely strive to increase the number of surgeons because a stressed surgeon is a dangerous man okay you don't want to go under go under his knife when he is in a certain level of stress or distress about his own condition or his family or whatever other situations that he goes through in his life should not get transmitted through his knife because it's possible because a sports person goes out there after a lifetime of practice but if he is little stressed about some situation he becomes a total failure let's say a cricketer goes out there to bat but he has some personal stress today you will see he will just do something which doesn't work because in a way he is trying to use it by bat like a scalpel alright for his profession so but there it is just out here somebody else gets out which is not a good thing so it's extremely important I would say definitely the number of surgeons should go up but more than that the number of surgeries that we are doing in the world must go down this will only go down if we create a culture of health we are not focusing on creating culture of health we are only talking about health care as if somebody else can deliver health to us somebody else delivering health to us is not a good idea health must happen from within us beyond that certain things will come to us for that a doctor is needed beyond that a doctor cannot fix it then a surgeon should come in right now I feel too much surgery is happening I am sorry I know people are not going to like this but I am saying I feel there is too much mechanical intervention with human body which could be large which could be significantly brought down if not largely it could be brought down to a certain level where only beyond a certain level surgery is needed but first of all why does a human being get to that level he lives violently he doesn't know what to eat what not to eat how to sleep how to get up nothing he knows nobody has taught him what he should after millions of years of living on this planet still we don't know what to eat every other creature has figured out what to eat what not to eat for their well being human beings the most intelligent are still debating what is the best food to eat they have not figured it out so if we settle certain things if a society is largely healthful because of their own innate efforts every human being individual human beings are committed to their health and they stay healthy the number of surgeries will come down and surgeons can go home on time and everything will be wonderful okay maybe it is not commercially a good idea but I am saying we need to invest in other ways right now what I am seeing is in Hyderabad city I see advertisements come and have your surgery done here never before I have seen an advertisement for surgery how is this surgery is something you go through when everything else has failed that is how I understand medicine I hope I am right you will be very pleased to know that I come home at five o'clock in the evening and even if I leave early I make sure that I have seen my children I have seen my parents and you know I make sure that I lead a balanced life thanks to Isha foundation and thanks to Inner Engineering Sadguru six years ago our honorable prime minister launched the make in India campaign which is a major national movement to foster innovation enhance skill sets and also build best in class infrastructure and in terms of medical healthcare I would use the word healthcare although you just brought out that point we have the most brilliant minds as far as doctors are concerned whether it is their knowledge their abilities or their skills wherever they are in the world they are really the best we see many doctors who are really made a name for themselves in different parts of the world similarly in terms of medical infrastructure we have very good hospitals and we have very good medical institutions as well medical colleges but Sadguru having worked in the UK for 10 years and having worked in some of the best centres of excellence how do we make a Harvard or an Oxford or a Yale or a Cambridge in India and how do we develop leaders in medical education and in healthcare infrastructure and have a world rating that we have the best infrastructure not only doctors but we also have the best infrastructure relating to delivering medical care see see that's a very vital question for the country's development in this area because we have 1.4 billion people if we have a healthy and focused 1.4 billion people that this very nation will become a miracle but if we have unhealthy unfocused uneducated 1 billion people we will be the greatest disaster right now we are at that time at the juncture in many ways we are at that cusp either we are going to cross this chasm or we are not going to in various forums in many ways I have conveyed this to the government and to everybody concerned that what is needed is investment into education if investment has to happen you must open it up I have been asking them to do this why don't you allow businesses to invest in medical schools in engineering schools whatever highest level of education why I am saying this is on one level how many Indian students are going out to study hundreds of them are in Russia now many of them are in China many in Germany of course United States they are not allowing so everybody is in Caribbean to study and somehow enter the United States why is this happening at quite the same level but if you go to these universities the premier universities in the world whether medical schools or business schools if you go most of the deans are Indian origin people why is it we are exporting talent we should export talent that is fine we have plenty you always export something when it is excess but you are exporting the best and you don't have that here simply because there is no investment in the arena that should happen only if we open up our minds that somebody will invest only if there is profit otherwise nobody will invest and why will they invest why will I invest and work hard if there is no profit to it right now in this country still profit making is a evil word right now you see things are going on in the country for everything they will say something your suit is a big problem okay for them they will put you under the suit boot category I'm saying this we have not dropped our socialist mindset is the government capable of really taking it to heights I don't believe that well some of the Ames institutions have functioned at the height but they cannot scale up they cannot scale up and create multiple universities like this or multiple hospitals like this they cannot do it and government should not do it because it will be an unnecessary burden on the government government should make the policies which will make these things happen exuberantly so right now I'm saying for example if I say I want to start a medical university I have you and let's say another hundred experts from across the world I can put them together if I put them together will you give me thousand acres allow me to raise investments start a medical school maybe I will charge very high but if students are willing to pay parents are willing to pay because they are getting a certain quality that they don't have to travel to Howard medical school or some other you know royal medical school in UK they will get something as good or better here it will happen right now nearly thirty billion dollars worth of education is going out of the country simply because we are not willing to invest because we are afraid somebody will make money say making money is not the issue creating quality education system is the real thing isn't it if you want if you are interested in this but right now we are in a socialist mindset we don't even want to recognize there are different levels of economic strata in the country at least five basic levels of economic strata the poorest who just want to come out of that level well maybe for them you have opened up IITs I am sorry not IITs what do you call them ITIs you know small diploma courses this that because you want to provide livelihood there is another middle class which is everybody in that middle class is aspiring to be a doctor or an engineer there is an higher middle class which is thinking of business and stuff like that there are rich people who are thinking of something else in the form of education so the many layers of India you have to recognize that you cannot say all of us go to ITI and become a diploma in mechanical engineering it's not going to work they will go to some other country and study naturally so I am saying this can be only done if you relax the policy for private players to look at the needs of a given society and do that I have gone to the extent of telling the authorities why are you trying to manage education even school I am saying why are you prescribing a certain curriculum and stuff why why are the bureaucrats doing this just leave it to me I will run a school I will charge ten times what anybody else is charging I will teach whatever nonsense I want to teach children are happy parents are happy what is your problem I am asking what is your problem when did it occur to you that a bureaucrat cares more about my child than myself how did this idea come into your head so no no no they will exploit what will they exploit you think parents are not able to figure out if their children are being exploited if they if I teach nothing will they just pay money and send their children to me will they do that only if some productivity is there they are happy with what is happening with their children then only they will pay isn't it so just because see market force is always the best force to regulate things yes there will be a period of time and an outburst of things will happen but it will naturally settle down what will make it settle down is quality right now quality is not the criteria for settling down something else government funding this one that one I am saying you leave this if I say I want to start a medical university don't ask me if I am a doctor or not I am not that's not the point I want to start one I am willing to get the investment will you just open up all the permissions no you will ask thousand questions those thousand questions will take a lifetime to answer so I won't start one don't do this this is the time this is the time nations education has to burst forth suppose I take people who have gotten the lowest marks in their 12th standard because I see some competence there what is your problem why are you saying they must get 95 or 98 or whatever is the standard for medical entry I am telling you this may be very upsetting for lot of people I am telling you lot of people who get 35 40 in their examinations are far more brilliant than those people who get 9500 it's a fact but you will reject them you will reject them because you don't want efficient doctors you want somebody who's got zeros in his mark sheet this is a ridiculous way of selection no no we got neat exam what is neat exam it's again like general knowledge kind of exam it is not really testing anybody's competence if I set up a medical university I will set up a completely different level of aptitude test whether you can be a surgeon or not just because you got 98 this doesn't mean your hands are good hello isn't it you got 98 does it mean to say that you have the studious hands and the sharpest focus in your life definitely not you are just a memory machine absolutely so totally agree with you Sadhguru actually investment in education has not happened the way it should have happened I am just moving on to you know traditional medicine and modern medicine can coexist because I deal with treating breast cancer patients on a daily basis and I get patients who have already commenced alternative treatment before coming to me and they are very fearful to even express that they are on those kind of treatments and I'm not against them using alternative treatment I sit them down I counsel them I explain what they have and I say that as long as you are able to take the allopathic treatment based on the multi-disciplinary protocols I have absolutely no issues in your continuing the alternative treatment but there is a view that alternative treatment should not be taken in those who have cancer which I totally disagree I feel that as long as they are able to take allopathic medicine in the way that they should parallely use alternative medicine I have no issues so do you think traditional medicine and modern medicine can coexist see essentially what you are asking is whatever knowledge and insights we have gleaned out of thousands of years of experience of life upon this planet should we keep it simply because a new force has come into play should we throw out all that and just go by the new things we have discovered in the last 150 years no this is not the way to approach life why do we think it is an alternate it is not alternate it is part of it tell me if I am wrong the yogic understanding of cancer is like this that cancer is not really a disease but a certain malfunction of our own system that it throws up what is already there in our body concentrates itself I would describe it like this in a city if there are ten pickpockets you know in every city there are there is a little bit of crime somebody is picking somebody's pocket something burglary is happening whatever we deal with it in a certain way we keep going but suppose these ten people got very organized and they built a team of 1000 people and became an organized crime and everybody's pocket is being picked tomorrow morning then we will say we need to act in a serious way this is how we understand cancer there are cancerous cells in our body there are cells which have gone rogue in our system they are always there but we don't care because they really affect us we just manage them managing them there are many many systems in the traditional system of medicine where you can manage them below a certain level for some reason either because of external stimuli or genetic stimuli or whatever else somehow it gets triggered and they become organized crime when they become organized crime you will say this is a cancer has established in the body and say cancerous cells were not in the body probably even a just born infant has I don't know you must tell me even a just born infant may have cancerous cells will it get organized or not to keep them disorganized there are many systems in yoga and Ayurveda that if you do certain things they will keep them disorganized but now they have already gotten organized see when it was disorganized to handle a pick pocket it is understandable who is little alert is good enough if five of them get organized then a sub inspector will handle it but suppose thousand of them got organized then you need national security alright so this is how I look at cancer if it is gotten so organized that something is rotting in your system already now it needs a different level of intervention which is what allopathic medical intervention is but at the same time even if that is happening should still the constable on the street be alert I think he should be yes absolutely sadguru thank you sadguru I am moving on to something that you know you have written a book on death and basically there is always this constant that is post surgery hahaha there is always a fear amongst many people about the risk of dying in fact death as you have described is an eternal truth and is an existential you know phenomenon so what are your views and how do we face death let me tell you a story there was a jewish surgeon he is an acclaimed surgeon doing very well but his father got some you know some serious surgeries needed for him for his own father so he felt very nervous operating upon his own father and he asked one of his colleagues who is also good to do the surgery upon his father when his father came to know he insisted no no no you must do the surgery so he tried to tell him father I can do the surgery but I am little nervous doing surgery upon you father insisted no you must do it he said why my friend is good he will do it that is not the point I want you to know in case the surgery fails and I die your mother will come and live with you and your wife you better know that so you you do the surgery for me so I am saying about death all of us will die but most people don't realize this through their life they think somebody happened some time ago last year a very well known sage in Karnataka he is a hugely respected man he lived an absolutely dedicated and devoted life he created many educational institutions he has transformed thousands of lives hugely respected man he died at the age of 111 111 all right and all the newspapers and politicians and others who say condolences we are shocked at his demise I said at 111 what do you shocked what's your problem hello why are you shocked at 111 you must know from the day you are born you are on a short fuse if you understand this if you are conscious of this then you will organize and plan your life in a way it's most fruitful if you do not know this that after 100 years you are still shocked that you may die well then you will live a wasteful life because you don't understand it's a limited amount of time if you understand something is very limited you will plan and organize it well if you think it's unlimited then you will live wentonly isn't it this is very very relevant for time because time is one thing that you cannot stop it is running away so actually in Tamil I will say it in Telugu maybe in Telugu also but in Tamil it said very well when somebody dies they will say kalamaitanga that means that time got over you know it's a perfect description of death time got over that's all well we can kick the can a little bit there is nobody here who can avoid death there is no such thing some fools have tried some fools in ancient past you see a lot of people sitting and doing tapas asking can I become immortal you've seen those idiotic affairs in the stories you know in our history we have heard people doing that in recent history people have been seeking immortality in so many ways once again this foolishness is manifesting itself as people become wealthy they want to become immortal no these are foolish efforts yes we can we can make the life little longer we can kick the can it's not that anybody wants to die but we are willing to die only then you can live if you say I'm not willing to die all that will happen is you will end up not living I don't want to die will not lead to an endless life it will lead to a life where you don't live so the problem is not that you will die the problem is that you did not live that is the biggest problem you may be physically alive according to medical parameters but you did not live life experience life in it's full profoundness this experience of life will not happen because of what you do or do not do in the world it happens because you deepened your ability to experience your ability to experience life whatever it is the food that you eat you experience within you the air that you breathe you experience within you pleasure and pain you experience within you joy and misery you experience within you just any experience happens only within you so it is in profoundness of experience that there is life if you understand time is limited then you will make sure your experience of life is super profound this must happen to every human being so everybody must be reminded I know as a surgeon you should not do it if you tell the patient you will die anyway then he will get very scared it's not your business it's my business to tell them you're anyway going to die yes sometimes have to counsel patients sometimes seriously ill patients that mortality and death is a possibility in the counseling in the consent form but it's a very inconvenient thing for a surgeon to say that particularly to the relatives who need to know what might happen to a seriously ill patient how do you have enlightened us on so many issues we have today delegates from across the country as I mentioned to you they're all practicing surgeons we have budding surgeons surgical trainees we also have distinguished surgeons from across the world six of them are being conferred honorary fellowship of the association of surgeons of India what would be your message Sadhguru to this audience as I said earlier once again repeat that with a little different context you're a surgeon means somebody they may not know who you are but they trust you to a point that they will allow you to knife them this is not a simple trust never misunderstand this this is a tremendous privilege that somebody offers you this level of trust lies down there willing to become unconscious willingly so that you can cut them up if you're aware of this that what is the level of trust involved in a person lying down there and allowing you to cut him up that privilege never never take that lightly but another aspect is of course you have to educate yourself you have to enhance your expertise and knowledge that is a medical part of the thing I will leave that to you but the other dimension of it is whatever you may know your intelligence, your skills, your knowledge all these things will work for you only if you have a balance within you above all balance if you're not balanced your intelligence will work against you your knowledge will work against you your very capabilities will work against you so this is important that you are balanced especially being a surgeon where other people are putting their lives into your hands all right? they even don't trust God this much I want you to know they're okay doing a deal in the temple from a distance they're not willing to put their lives into his hands hello? this is a fact they're putting their life into your hands please treat it as the highest level of privilege that a human being can enjoy in many ways and so you must equip yourself not just with medical knowledge and skills but with an inner balance for all the surgeons if you wish we will offer this in engineering online you can see how to reach them and then we can also initiate them into the process which will bring a certain level of steadiness and balance within you for which there's no substitute in life either to live your personal life well or to execute your professional life well for both for both these things you need an absolute sense of balance within you Namaskaram and thank you very much Namaskaram Sadhguru in fact I'd like to highlight the point about inner engineering that you said it has been a godsend opportunity and an incredible privilege to have attended, participated and benefited from the inner engineering program which has really profoundly changed my life the way I look at life the way I look at work and the way I look at the world around me and prior to doing this program I would be very stressed out even for small things and I would get tired very easily and I would not have my focus for too long so after attending this program first of all I become very joyous I become more relaxed I become more focused I get less tired and I don't take life seriously at all now and I feel that I have had so many benefits my family has seen that happening and if I can benefit I'm sure many of my colleagues can certainly benefit from this and I would strongly and happily encourage them to take this inner engineering program and thanks to you and to Isha Foundation I think since the beginning of the pandemic this has been offered free of cost to the healthcare professionals so once again Sadhguru I have no words to express my heartfelt thanks to you for sparing your valuable time to be with us today virtually and to me personally this has been a high point for me to be able to converse with you in a conversation for 45 minutes and most grateful to you Sadhguru for your grace and blessings. Namaskaram. Namaskaram. Thank you.