 with Alex Friedland from Morantis, CEO and co-founder. And we are, you are here for an exclusive look at us filming an interview with him for SuperUserTV, actually. So it's an interview within an interview. Thanks so much for joining us, Alex. Pleasure. So Alex, tell us a little bit about why you feel that it's important to put on this event. Well, it's interesting, but as our own Kragarins likes to say, in order to be able to execute, you have to build up some muscle memory, right? And this event, being a yearly event, is important because it brings, you know, not the same but similar groups of people in a predictable cadence to discuss the evolution of the industry. And through those touch points over time, you can clearly understand where the industry is going. And the changes that are happening from one end to another, you know, from year to year, are the kind of the touch and control points of where the industry is evolving or pivoting. You talked about that this morning in your brief keynote introduction this morning. You were talking about the differences from when this conference first started until now. Can you talk a little bit about that? So this is our third annual, right? And the first year, the bulk of the conversations was proof point that OpenStack will actually go mainstream. So people are coming in and saying, I got OpenStack like this, and then I got OpenStack like that. And people said, okay. So the last year, which was the second year, that was passe, because everybody understood that OpenStack is going mainstream. So then it was about workloads and VM workloads and these workloads, and also about container workloads. What does it take for containers to run on top of OpenStack? Because container revolution was kind of taking off. This year, it's again about containers, but in a very different capacity. It's about containers maturing and containers becoming the foundation of the infrastructure. So it's not about workloads in containers running on top of OpenStack. It's about containers being the underpinning of OpenStack running on top and native containers and being one platform for VMs, containers, and bare metal that is also lifecycle managed in a unique, unified way through, Kubernetes is the theme of this conference, but there are also mesos people and swarm people, but that's kind of the story. So that's one big change. And the other one is there is more conversation about business. Three years ago, it was all technology. Last year, it was technology and business kind of together. This one, a lot of technology, but the prevalent position is that to make cloud and general work in a large enterprise, it's not just technology. It's about people, it's about process, and it's about managing the end-to-end outcome, so the operating experience. So that's the kind of the evolution of the industry in the three year period. Was there anything in particular that you were excited to see today or that you're looking forward to in particular for tomorrow and day two? Well, I mean, I like the speakers, I like the themes. What's kind of new is the level of involvement that Google is showing in this, right? So Google is an interesting company because they are by far the most innovative infrastructure leader internally as far as how they run their infrastructure at amazing scale and they kind of were the ultimate innovator. But in the public enterprise-facing cloud, the innovator happened to be Amazon. So if you compare in that motion where Google is, they're actually behind. So, and it's interesting that the Google, which is the ultimate innovative company, is now taking a community approach to catching up, which is not something that you normally see Google do. Google is always out innovating everybody else, but with Amazon, they're taking a very different approach. And it's interesting that OpenStack, the community and the kind of commoditization of infrastructure, which is the theme that we've been writing now for the last six years, is becoming very important for Google. So you can take the Google innovative approach, take it with a community commoditization approach and a community momentum approach, putting them together and building a common value proposition. And I think about six months ago, we started discussing that this may be the right motion and we're kind of laughing about it. And six months later, we see it happening in the mainstream. That's quite amazing actually. So I can only imagine where we're gonna be here from now. Excellent. Well, Alex, thank you so much for taking the time. And we'll see you next year. Pleasure. Welcome. We are here with Marcus right here from SAP and we are here to talk about containers and OpenStack and basically to join him for the customer and user experience here at OpenStack Days, Silicon Valley. So Marcus, welcome. Thank you. So tell us a little bit about in sort of two sentences or less, what SAP is doing with OpenStack? Okay, we had acquisitions over the last years and since 1972 we're in business. So we have a big transition towards our business towards the cloud. So effectively we ended up with 23 full stack proprietary build cloud applications and we're on the process to build a unified converge cloud platform where the divergent use cases we have from traditional on-premise applications to cloud native applications feel at home to be deployed. And we have selected OpenStack obviously to power the core of this. And why did you choose OpenStack? We had like those 23 platforms that all had a decent level of automation and effectively we were locking up all the skilled developers in the silos. So effectively what we have decided to do is just like, okay, let's go and write that code. But we don't have to write everything because it has been done already. So for us it's like a shared code pool OpenStack where step by step you're gonna see a lot more contributions from SAP. It's not naturally invest because those people have been working on those platforms already. But it takes some time to get the organizational change and everything in place to make that an open source effort instead of like a proprietary effort because we have no intention to sell. So for us it's like a win-win situation. So now you're moving towards container. So how are you kind of merging those two? Well, we're not moving necessarily to those containers. Obviously one demand for our OpenStack platform is to support container-based infrastructure for our cloud native payloads. But with containers specifically Kubernetes we're trying to solve the problem of operating our OpenStack at scale without having that net to invest. Because there we don't have skilled OpenStack operators and in our 13 regions we're targeting to deploy we can't just ramp up hundreds of people. So we're running OpenStack in Kubernetes as an application in order to minimize the operations effort involved to bring it up and to actually keep it alive. And how's it going? We're live since July and it was a big risk half a year ago when we started this. We shifted from Chef to using this. No one knew if it's gonna work. But it's working nicely, more than nicely. So we can highly recommend that as a pattern for the future. As far as the conference itself what have you kind of been most excited to see here today or here today? I think compared to the other OpenStack days I've been participating. This is less of let's say enterprise sales meeting and there's quite some high profile people here which is always enlightening to hear them talk about future. I'm quite surprised how many container Kubernetes talks there are and how few there are about OpenStack but that only gives me proof that we can't be on the wrongest path for the future. Yeah, and the most exciting talks I've seen now was the one from AT&T following after us because it hits full on spot of the challenges we have been facing in the decision making process and how we engage with OpenStack community. And the panel discussions, the various ones we had on the topics where not someone is presenting his view but where a little of exchange is visible if you read between the lines. Excellent. Is there anything in particular you're looking forward to tomorrow? No. Actually I'm just gonna float through the event and see where it drives me. Okay, excellent. Well, we're gonna wrap up this super user TV interview. Thank you so much, Marcus. We appreciate you joining us. My name's Sean Nguyen. I'm a senior systems engineer working on infrastructure at EMC. And I've been working with OpenStack since the Folsom release of OpenStack, so about three and a half years now. So you've seen a lot of changes in the past. Oh yeah, OpenStack has grown tremendously in the last few years. And you were here at the last couple of conferences as well. Oh yeah, I'm a regular attendee here at OpenStack days in Silicon Valley and I try to make it to as many of the OpenStack summits as I can. They were just so much fun. So what kind of progression have you seen? Well, I've seen it go from a point where there was a question about OpenStack and whether or not it was even really a viable solution or a viable software stack. People questioned whether they should even use it at all. And now it's no longer a question of whether it's viable, whether it's usable, or whether it's even proliferating because there's no doubt that OpenStack has grown. And now it's really more about focusing on some of the specific use cases where OpenStack provides a ton of value but has a little bit of catch-up work to it. So what kind of situations are those? I really see that the spaces that need the most help right now are the carrier and telecommunication spaces, people that are looking to do software-defined networking, network functions, virtualization, trying to take a lot of these legacy, mobile and carrier systems and move them into modern architectures and modern systems. I think they're probably challenged the most. And what are you speaking on here today? So today I'm gonna be talking about all the various pitfalls that I've seen working with customers who have attempted to do it themselves and have insisted that OpenStack is just a series of software components that you string together. It's fairly simple and straightforward. And so they've gone out on their own to try and do that. And for one reason or another they've run into some kind of difficulty. So I'm gonna be talking about ways that you can overcome that by working with a vendor solution, using their reference architectures, using their solutions, turnkey solutions to ease your operation and ease your deployments. So what do you think you're most excited about about this event? For me it's an opportunity to see a lot of people who I don't get a chance to interact with face-to-face. A lot of great people who are just a part of this community and have helped contribute to OpenStack's success over the years. And it's really interesting to come back and see them from time to time and hear the different messages that have honestly evolved as OpenStack has evolved and to see what they're talking about today. So thank you very much, Sean. Welcome for SuperUser. Welcome. We are here for SuperUserTV with Luke Canes, founder and CEO of Puppet. And we are here at day two of the OpenStack Day Silicon Valley Conference here at the Computer History Museum in Mountain Dew, California. So welcome, Luke. Thank you, Nick. Thank you for having me. Thank you so much for joining us. So Luke, you of course are the founder and CEO of Puppet which for those who are not aware, now how would you describe it? I always call it a configuration management tool but how do you just start? So the tool allows you to automate your infrastructure so you can spend less time doing menial work, rework and responding to problems than more time shipping great software to your customers. So with all of this focus on sort of streamlining OpenStack and so on and managing containers and orchestration and all of that, Puppet is a big part of that. Absolutely, yeah. So we've seen about half of all OpenStack clouds are deployed and managed by Puppet. And so what is your feeling on sort of the relationship between containers and OpenStack and orchestration and how all that comes together? We at Puppet, one of our core tenants is heterogeneity. One of the things we do best at solving for our customers is helping them to manage pretty much anything. So in general, we don't have strong feelings about which technology a customer should use. We think customers should always be enabled to use the best thing they can find. And so that's what we help them do. If you wanna switch to this or that or the other thing, one of the jobs you should be able to hire is for is to help you switch as fast as possible to the latest and greatest technology. And for a lot of organizations, they're moving from the infrastructure they had five years ago to an OpenStack, to a public cloud infrastructure. And a lot of them are having really deep conversations about, okay, how does containerization fit into my strategy? And right now, they're having the how does it fit in conversation in most cases? We're a production first company. So we really focus on not what you're interested in, but what you actually use to provide value to your customers. And today, containerization actually absolutely shows up in production in plenty of companies, but in most companies, it's still a discussion. And we haven't seen yet, for them, how the two techs are gonna fit together. But we are definitely seeing some overlap in how people are thinking about deploying OpenStack. And we were talking with Miranda today about OpenStack and Kubernetes and how those two do and do not fit together and how you can align your strategy so that you don't have two completely unrelated stories, but you find a way to do them both at the same time. And certainly that's our goal is to say, yes, we can manage each of these pieces. And if you do them together or you do them, there's a plant here and a plant there. And maybe you've got some AWS, maybe you've still got some physical infrastructure because actually speed matters sometimes, you know, it shouldn't matter, you should have managed it all. So you are probably on the forefront of this whole DevOps movement. So how do you think that that came about that this just exploded like that? It's really all because every company is becoming a software company. Technology used to be what you did, right? You were IMA software company, but now everyone does software. So technology is how you do whatever it is you do. If you're a retail company, software is how you excel at retail. If you are a finance company, software is how you excel at finance. If you are a technology company, software in general is how you become great at whatever technology it is. And so what that's brought with it is the industry itself is beginning to recognize that we have to learn how to optimize the process of creating software just as there was a century long revolution of getting great in manufacturing, right? You look at the early innovation of the moving assembly line from Henry Ford, from that to lean manufacturing where you've got quality all the way to the left. You've got really, really dynamic teams making on the ground decisions about how to build things. That evolution took almost a century. I think of the software revolution starting as about the time you could deliver software over the internet. So mid 90s. So by that logic, we're two decades into what I think is probably still a century long process of becoming great at building software. And in the last 10 years, you've really seen many organizations are beginning to realize being great at software is strategic to our business and is critical to our success as a business. And as a result, they're all looking at what are the constraints? Where do I need to invest? Where do I need to push? What's left between here and there for us to win? And DevOps is the answer to that. And in 15 years and 20 years, we won't be talking about DevOps anymore. We'll have found that the next new constraint, but finding a way to tie the goal of operations to the value of the customer experiences is a critical part of success today. And that's really the work of DevOps. So here at the conference, what do you think is the most exciting or interesting thing that you've heard? Well, unfortunately, I actually only came in this morning. So, and I've not been able to really see too many of the talks today, but I think OpenStack is in a really interesting phase because not, you know, a couple of years ago, it was still young, not sure, you know, it was gonna be amazing. And then, you know, production takes a couple of years to really, for people to figure out how do we take this great idea and turn it into production? Well, now clearly OpenStack is, it's widely used, it's broadly adopted, it's relied on in production by a lot of organizations. And just as OpenStack is beginning to figure itself out, the containerization world shows up and says, yeah, funny story, the whole entire world has changed. You need to think about it differently. And so you've got these two waves that are almost in conflict, that are trying to figure itself out, and those conflicts are happening on the ground at events like this, of just like, oh no, what does the world look like now? What does the future look like? And that conversation, I think, is one that I'm most interested in. Interesting. Well, thank you so much for joining us here at SuperUserTV. We appreciate it, and we'll see you next time. All right, thanks for having me. Rich Wagner, welcome to SuperUserTV. Thank you. Good to be here. Thank you so much for joining us. So, Mitch, you were a speaker this morning on media and OpenStack. Mm-hmm, and open source. Well, and open source. Sorry, thank you for the correction. So you were a speaker for media and open source. What do you think was the most important takeaway from that panel? We are really, at least at light reading, we're very much focused for the enterprise cloud on the intersection of technologists and business managers. In other words, business aware technology managers or technology aware business managers, people who want to figure out how to put the technology to work to serve the business. Very often, when I talk to people in the open source community, they are very much concerned with the technology, just getting the technology working and the technology itself, and also with issues that are of interest more to the community itself and not to the larger business technology community. Things like getting an open source project, donating that to a particular community or some changes at a foundation. Very important to the community itself, not so much to the people outside that community. So what kinds of things are important to the people outside the community that community people should realize? They're looking to do what businesses do. They're looking to serve their customers, improve their profitability, improve their revenue and cut costs, improving customer satisfaction, develop mobile applications to serve customers in the way that people demand here in the 21st century. Internet of things is becoming, people are getting a sense that that's becoming important and has become already important in many sectors including industry being probably the most interesting. And that, by the way, also goes together with the cloud. So how do you deliver the cloud? How do you deliver Internet of Things applications while you do it over the cloud? There's really no other way to do it. So we tend, in this community, we tend to very much think cloud. You know, everybody knows what the cloud is and everybody knows why they need to use it and all that. How prevalent is that view? Or is there some percentage of businesses out there that are just still going? No, I think I just want to keep everything here. I do see businesses that still want to keep everything on premises and I don't think they're foolish for it either. I had a fascinating conversation last year, kind of a hallway conversation at a conference like this one of the guy who worked for a chain of family restaurants. You know, like, it wasn't Chili's, but it was like Chili's. And I was, he was very reluctant to move his back office and point of sale systems to the cloud. And I said, well, why? You seem like a perfect candidate for it, your value is your service and your food itself. You know, the management of the systems that deliver the ingredients of the store and your payroll systems and your point of sale systems. I'm sure that's the same as all your competitors. And he said, yeah, but nobody cares about this stuff like we do. You know, if a cloud provider goes down, the cloud provider will say, well, gosh, we're just going to have to write you the penalty check. And meanwhile, he's out of a job, out of business. So they're keeping that there. I do think that overall, you know, hybrid cloud is the future. At least for the foreseeable future, which as you know is only a few years in this industry. Hybrid cloud is the future private cloud. People want to, even if they're running their applications on premises, they still want the agility that cloud gives them to spin up new applications fast, to spin down new applications fast, to try new things. So what percentage of businesses you think have a, let me rephrase that. What percentage of large businesses do you think have an understanding of the fact that that's what they should be doing? I'm going to give you, you've heard a trick question that will give you a trick answer, which is nearly 100%. And the reason that's a trick answer is because large enterprises are doing everything. But I really don't have, honestly, don't have a clear sense of to what extent businesses are seeing that cloud, even if it's just private cloud, is the future. Just I'm just into companies that we talk to are self-selecting in that regard. I do think there is, there is a natural, there is a natural caution on the part of businesses to migrate to any new technology, which technologists, engineers often find frustrating. The business is doing it for a sound reason. You've got literally 30 years invested in your line of business system. You're not going to want to move that to new technology lately. Right. So, to finish this off quickly here. So here at the event, what was the most exciting thing that you think you heard here in the day and a half? I'm not going to tell you the most exciting thing yet because I just started writing it up. It was something your boss told me. Oh, can you tell you in private, did he say it on stage? He said it in a hallway conversation. So, very, very mysterious. I thought the most interesting thing from our perspective at Light Reading, since we're historically a service provider publication, it's still primarily a service provider publication, even though we're moving into the enterprise. So, from that perspective, I thought the AT&T presentation yesterday was interesting. They were talking about what they need from OpenStack. Not surprisingly, it was just, I have the points in my notes, I don't remember them all planned, but it was basically what everybody always wants. So, more robust. Just make it harder, make it more battle ready. And he said that coming from within, coming from as a full participant, not saying you guys need to, but we all need to. The other thing that I thought was very interesting was that AT&T has an internal definition of open source. We all think we know what open source is and why do you need a definition of that? You have it. But he said, I don't remember if he said it or if I'm just picking it up, reading between the lines, but I guess they got burned a couple of times. A couple of the points I remember was the licensing has to be free. You know, you gotta pay to run it. You gotta pay to keep it going. Everybody knows, most people who know about open source know that. But the other thing is they have to have access to the source code, all the source code. He seemed a little skeptical, I think, of the hybrid open proprietary model, if I recall correctly, which I know is kind of mainstream in the vendor community. So it'll be interesting to see how that plays out. So those were kind of the two interesting things. Oh, and also, Martín Casado, just talking about the business of open source and how startups can make money and how they're challenging incumbents. As you know, the engineers or the developers can buy what they want and don't go through the normal sales channels. They just say, here's my credit card, let me have it. And there's a lot of interesting stuff going on there. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much from SuperUserTV and we'll see you next time. Thank you. Thank you. Adrienne, welcome to SuperUserTV. Thank you so much for joining us. All right, thanks for having me. Thank you. So tell us a little bit about what you are gonna be talking about today. So I'm on a panel session with Boris and we're gonna be talking about what happens when you take a product that's really designed for enterprise that updates every six months and you start to mix it in with expectations that things are updating continuously. So all the continuous delivery stuff and then there's also we're seeing a technology mix as well. So, you know, from moving from everything written in Python to having Kubernetes stuck in the middle of it which is actually when you go. So now you've got components mixed together and you've got parts of the system that are designed to handle continuous updates and all of the implications of that. But with the microservices based architecture it shouldn't really matter what things are written in, should it? Well, yeah, but the protocol between the services is, I'm not sure, originally it was very Python specific and I think that eventually you need to get something a bit more independent. But it's really what Kubernetes is doing is scheduling the containers that make up the various component features of OpenStack. That's sort of putting it in the guts of the system and then using it also. The other thing that I think is particularly interesting is as you move from the big struggle being just getting OpenStack to have all the features it needs to be useful and out there working at scale, then you get the developers come along and say, well, it's just got this API. How do I do something interesting with that? So what you really want is something on top to run containers. So having, I think, Kubernetes as a role as the container scheduler for applications running on this as well as the thing that you use for continuously managing and updating the guts of your system. So two different places where it ties in. I mean, when you now have Kubernetes managing your containers, I mean, how is that really an improvement though over, OK, well, I have an API to manage OpenStack. OK, so now I have an API to manage containers. I mean, we're not really giving the developers anything more than before, are we? But you're moving on from basically having machine images which take a while to build and a while to deploy to containers that take seconds to build and seconds to deploy. So there's a reason why everyone else has basically moved to using Docker or whatever to deploy things. So given that developers are spitting out a whole pile of Docker containers, you have to figure out a way to run them. So let's just make that standardized and just get it out there so that you have a way to do it. And are you seeing legacy, not even so much legacy, but existing non-cloud native workloads still staying in virtual machines? Sort of, I think some extent, but if you think about a legacy workload built into a virtual machine, it's probably built into a VMware virtual machine. And then if you want to run it on KVM or Xen, you have to do something, you have to rebuild it again. I think what people are doing often is taking that VM application and turning it into a big fact container full of whatever junk had to be there to make it work. Then continuing to run that in wherever they needed it to run it. So if you pop up one level from the VM, you get out of having to decide which virtualization framework you want. Then you've got portability between VMware and OpenStack and whatever else you want and public clouds. And you just have one way to run that thing. So I'm seeing a few people working in that direction, using containers as a way to just abstract away from the VM format. So that's one of the advantages of containers. What are the advantages of using OpenStack? Well, if you're trying to run stuff in your data center, you can handcraft it or you can build some automation. Really, you have to build automation. So if you're building relatively complex infrastructure, you need drivers for all of the different pieces to build that out of. I just see OpenStack as the generic weight. I mean, it's like device drivers for all the cards you could plug into your Linux box, right? You have to have a device driver for every card, every PCI card. I think there needs to be an OpenStack driver for everything you might want to have in your data center. And then you have the interfaces to talk to them so that every network switch has a common kind of interface. Every storage system has a common kind of interface. So that's, I think, the ultimate value here that we finally got every vendor to agree that there was at least one set of APIs to do that with rather than having 10 different APIs. Wonderful. What are you most excited about coming to this conference about? Let's see. I think it's interesting to see things, just this sort of collision between the sort of developer-driven infrastructure world that's been building up over the last few years and the sort of operations enterprise-oriented world and sort of how these two things are now mixing and sort of trying to figure out what actually happens when you try to change everything 10 times a day and you're trying to change something every six months as well. You've got a new release once every six months. And then the other thing that's shaking all this stuff up is security-related issues. Every time you get a vulnerability, we've got a huge number of vulnerability scanners now. Pretty much every vendor has some kind of vulnerability scanner. So you can look at your system and say, okay, this has no problem in it because you're running some version of something. And you have to be able to get in there and automatically replace that. So that requires automation to do it, right? Hand-fixing every machine that had a heartbeat bug in it was like, those people still haven't finished doing that. The people that, you know, that was like a year or two ago, there are still machines out there running that bug, right? And the people who are on heavy automation just turned it over in hours or days or whatever to do that, am I gonna break anything by rolling out this new thing? So we've got to get to this point where when there's a vulnerability, you can respond to it immediately. And that just requires automation. You're gonna have an API to update yourself. It's fundamentally a possibility. Well, thank you so much for joining us here on SuperUserTV.