 I'm Chomotso Boe and I'm an entrepreneur from Soweta. Soweta's come a long way from a small township to a mini-city of its own. Soweta's got some really really nice suburbs, like Deep Cliff Extension, but the locals call it Deep Cliff Expensive. Orlando's known as a suburb that had the first brick houses built in Soweta. Orlando Stadium for its iconic games between Queza Cheese and Pirates, and most importantly Villagasi Street, where Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tudu resided. To the west of Soweta you find suburbs of Dobsonville and Protea. These two suburbs are actually very cosmopolitan, fresh, young and very new. Right next door to Soweta we have a neighbouring suburb, which is rather out of park. It's a little adventure and a little fun. Soweta's got so many night spots, from the news cafe at Montpoyne Mall, to your Villagasi Street's Akumsis, to just chilling and chaff pausies just between the towers and having a simple bright place, Chassanyama. Something very close to my heart is actually seeing people move back into Soweta, growing businesses remodeling homes. It merely says to us that Soweta's a growing city. There's way more to this place than what we think. Soweta needs to be discovered daily. I'm so proud to call Soweta my home, and this is my neighbourhood. What is a bank at a time like this? In a world filled with uncertainties, where lives are put on hold, business paused, and working together means staying apart. At Apsa, being a bank means staying connected. It means being a part of your future, providing relief at a time of need, and doing this through effective secure online platforms. It means staying in touch when everyone else seems distant. Being a bank means knowing that we've come from far and are yet to go further. And that possibly this could be a time for a new beginning, an opportunity to reflect and rebuild. We are alongside you, helping you to finance your dreams and grow your legacies. We are in this together. Rigao feila se souke. Once as Amal saan. That is African Nassity. Good evening and welcome to episode 35 of the Private Property Podcast. I'm your host, Zaman Thoma, Kumalo. It's a Friday. I don't know how much of a difference it makes for so many of us who are of course going to be at home, but I'm sure we're all looking forward to going down to level 3 restrictions on Monday. And of course, during the course of next week, we'll also look at how that actually impacts us. But for tonight's edition of the Private Property Podcast, I'm joined by Zem, who is the Manager of Data and Electrics at Apsa Home Loan. And we're going to have a very interactive question and answer session. If you're first time home owner or home buyer, rather, this is the episode you do not want to miss. So do send through those questions and comments that you'd like us to deal with this evening. But before we get to that, thank you so much for joining us this evening, I think I want to actually get into some data that I think is absolutely essential to know that the Apsa Home Owner's Sentiment Index speaks not only to Apsa's customers, but customers across the board. Can you perhaps give us a sense of what this index is and some of the research that's come out for quarter one? Good evening, Zemma, and good evening to all the viewers. Yes, the Apsa Home Owner's Sentiment Index is basically a measure of consumer sentiment regarding the property market in general in South Africa. Now we've been running this index for just over three years now and we release reports quarterly. What our findings are for quarter one is that the HSI showed us that confidence in the Apsa property market has fallen by 3% as compared to quarter four of 2019 and it's currently sitting at 73%. So basically 73% of respondents answered that they are confident in the South African property market. Now bear in mind that when we ran this survey for quarter one, we hadn't yet gone into lockdown. So the sentiment is quite indicative of the direction of the confidence level of the respondents in the general non-blockdown market. And as you know, what were some of the concerns that home owners were essentially showing in quarter one? So respondents showed quite a bit of concern about the economic outlook. Despite the interest rate cuts, which we had a 25 basis point cut in January this year and another one in March, the other two interest rates having happened in quarter two. So we'll get the results of that in our next installment. But sentiment in the market basically tended towards reduced activity with fewer respondents considering it's an appropriate time to buy, invest or sell property. That's actually quite interesting. I think I'm certainly looking forward to seeing how it's going to look as we're slowly easing back into the new normal as it works. I don't think we're going to see anything remotely close to what we previously had before. And what would you say were some of the key trends that you were seeing in the market? So in quarter four we had seen that there were concerns around political instability, but these concerns were subsiding and properties appeal as a secure asset were increasing. The picture did change in Q1 of this year due to the current economic uncertainty with many respondents citing COVID-19 specifically. We also found that there's still a belief among respondents that property could help them weather the storm of economic uncertainty. So a negative outlook was cited by more respondents as being the driver for them either considering it's a good time to buy or a bad time to sell property. So essentially everyone was being forced back into their home. We also then saw that the market continues to be favorable for buyers with low prices being cited by respondents assessment of it being a good idea to buy or a bad idea to sell. Basically it's still a buyer's market update. And certainly a sentiment that we've been sharing on the private property podcast, this idea that not only are we currently in a buyer's market because of COVID, but we're actually already seeing it being a buyer's market pre-Covid. And just in yesterday's episode we're actually looking at whether or not you should be taking advantage of this global pandemic we find ourselves in and looking at some of the opportunities and the threats that we essentially finding because of this crisis. And in order to speak to that crisis, you know, how are these quarter one trends different to what you would have anticipated or what you will anticipate post COVID. So let me discuss maybe some of the things that the pandemic has done or is doing and how these relate back to the property market. So some people and then many people have actually already started feeling this that it doesn't reduce household income or at least put it in a more precarious state. So naturally consumers are likely to be more cautious about consumption spending. People have been forced into their homes as I mentioned earlier and families have been trying to figure out how to squeeze in work, schooling, housework, relaxation in the same space. Meaning that we will potentially see a rise in the popularity of larger homes with working study areas. And then thirdly, the limited human contact and mobility would have encouraged digital adoption. Although we have seen some, I guess, early indications that especially people who live by themselves are actually lacking that human contact. So some people are actually now starting to opt to fall into the contact centers. Now, the structure of the market after the recovery will likely be affected by these trends and we could see things like a jump in digital adoption and an increase in consumer price sensitivity. We're also ever likely to see this discounting in the importance of living close to commercial hubs as working from home gains some stickiness. Families potentially moving in together and immigration sales slowing as prospects reduce in other countries. We expect COVID-19 to impact the home ownership mindsets and reactions across what we've identified as the housing ecosystem. So we think about it in terms of those who are renting, those who are buying, those who are living in their homes, selling and investing. And as a result, we're embarking on additional research to gain more insights around our customers and how we can see this landscape changing over time. And was, you know, even though one knows or rather no one knows for certain what the forecast for economic impact post-COVID, how is it essentially going to navigate that terrain? Sure. That's an interesting one. So basically we now expect the economy to shrink by 9.7% down from our early expectations of a shrink of 6.4% and we're likely to see this activity or 2019 pre-COVID activity come back in 2023 and beyond. So we'll definitely be monitoring sentiment in the coming months together with how we see the market progressing out of its current state. In terms of how will weather the storm, I mean we kind of all joined at the hip and we need to navigate the storm together. The one thing that we are very careful about is making sure that we treat our customers fairly because they will remember how you treat them in the most difficult of times. So we kind of have that one meter plan, the 10 meter plan and the 50 meter plan. And that's such an important thing. We see that you said that oftentimes certainly as customers, we do remember how different corporates reacted in times of crisis, whether they were the ones who stuck to the rules as they were or they were able to adapt to the environment that we find ourselves in. Given that this data is now in the public domain, how can people take advantage of essentially knowing this? So if we have home owners or prospective home owners who are looking at their home owner sentiment index and getting a sense of what other people who are really home owners, what kind of insights should this kind of data essentially give them? How should they be thinking about reading a report like this or even listening to those podcasts and getting a sense of how other home owners are, how they perceive essentially the property market? Yeah, so I think it definitely helps to read up on general trends on what's happening around the world and what we're seeing happen around the world. I normally find that this is a good place to start. And then after that, where I see the HSI kind of bridging a gap, it's sort of bridging that gap between what we're seeing as trends and what we try to do with this report is we try to quantify what the trend represents. And then it can sort of guide you into these other types of things you can start looking at and then you can get down into the granular level of detail. So for example, if we're now looking at the whole idea about it being a buyer's market, we can kind of talk about it in general terms and then you can pick up a copy of the home owner sentiment index and you can then see how the index is tracking for people wanting to buy property or people not wanting to sell property and you can actually trend it over time. And when those indicators then show you that it is potentially a buyer's market, you can then start using platforms such as private property to search for properties, really look at what prices are doing over time. But it's important to consider the trends and consider all the research around it so that it can direct that research that you then do at a granular level. We're going to go for a quick break, I want us to look at some of the questions and comments I have sent through. I think a lot of prospective home buyers certainly have a lot of questions for banks, especially as we've cited earlier, we've seen lower interest rates and even home owners currently have a particular sentiment around those lower interest rates and viewers at home often want to know whether or not they should be buying now, given that we're seeing 50 year low interest rates or whether they should rather go for a pause, observe where the market is going to go, observe how much higher we're going to see the interest rates rise, which is something of course that we're already anticipating. To our viewers at home, do send through those questions and comments and we'll be dealing with them right after this. I'm of course speaking to Umuswai Kizm, who's the manager of data analytics at Apsa home loan. We'll be back just after this. What is a bank at a time like this? In a world filled with uncertainties where lives and business paused and working together means staying apart. At Apsa, being a bank means staying connected. It means being a part of your future, providing relief at a time of need and doing this through effective secure online platforms. It means staying in touch whenever one else seems distant. Being a bank means knowing that we've come from far and are yet to go further. Sebuya go de forte sesai a go de. And that possibly this could be a time for a new beginning, an opportunity to reflect and rebuild. We are alongside you, helping you to finance your dreams and grow your legacies. We are in this together. Rigao feila sesau ke. Once as Amazon. That is African density. Welcome back to episode 35 of the private property podcast. I'm your host, Zaman Douma Kumar. I'm joined this evening by Muzoakism, who's the manager of data analytics at Apsa Home Loans. And we've been talking about the Apsa Home Owners' Sentiment Index, which is essentially a measure of consumer sentiment regarding the property market in South Africa in general. And it doesn't only measure Apsa's clients, but also looks at other clients from different financial institutions. Now in the event was we were saying before the break that, you know, this is incredible data that home owners or even prospective home owners can essentially use in navigating their home ownership journey and seeing what the sentiments in the market from fellow home owners or those who are not already home owners from people who already are home owners. How can people essentially get this kind of data? You're saying that comes out on a quarterly basis. How can they ensure that they are subscribed in order to receive the data? So you can email us on ApsaHomeLoans at Apsa.co.za It's one word. ApsaHomeLoans at Apsa.co.za and just let us know that you'd like us to add you to the mailing list and then we'll send you the report on a quarterly basis. The results of the reports are also published by various news outlets as soon as we release it as well. I often ask a lot of some of your colleagues at Apsa and this is one of those questions that we're certainly going to continue asking whenever we speak to a bank because we're seeing such low interest rates and of course it's the issue of whether people should opt to fix their interest rates. A lot of people have been asking us right here in the comment section around sentiments from a bank whether or not they're currently looking at getting into fix interest rates with their clients. We're looking, we're seeing certainly people who are exploring whether changing Home Loans or restructuring their Home Loans because they want to take advantage of these historically low interest rates. So are we seeing a sentiment not only from Apsa but banks in general of getting into a fixed interest rate, particularly for a home loan during this period? So in terms of fixing interest rates it's an actually a very interesting fix that we've got. It's actually a marketplace that gets created and the marketplace has sufficient liquidity. So at this point in time if you'd like to fix your interest rate you can get in touch with us and we'll definitely be able to give you a quote for what your interest rate will be, should you be fixing your interest rate. So if you fix your interest rate it does tend to be slightly higher than the interest rate that you're paying now but at least you know that you won't have any surprises as the interest rate keeps rising. And I think you know that's one of those sentiments that I've certainly heard within other Home Owners or other investors that some of them are looking for a lower rate than what they're currently having. So we're essentially shopping around to see which bank is even open to that kind of conversation because we don't get a sense that all the financial institutions are perhaps open to that conversation. So one of the things of course is in the event where we have prospective home buyers who are looking to enter this property market right now they've read the index, they get the sentiment from fellow or other Home Owners what are some of the tips that you would give them in navigating buying their home for the first time, especially those who aren't as clued up about what is currently happening, they're carrying murmurs around low interest rates they can afford it and it's not like we're saying yesterday it's not a false affordability so they're going to be shopping within their affordability range what kind of tips would you give those prospective home, those prospective new home buyers in terms of navigating their home ownership journey. So the first thing and a very important thing I would say you need to do your research you don't want to find yourself in a situation where you went into buying a new home only to realize that you potentially paid more than what the market would justify paying for the type of house that you purchased. Secondly, make sure that you budget adequately you need to defend your good name at the credit erodes, the only way that you can have a good relationship with financial service providers over the long term. And then thirdly I would say don't be shy to ask those who have walked the path there are many professionals who can walk the journey with you so at the bank we've got home loan consultants that are more than ready to assist you on your journey but there's other role players in the industry I know that private property puts out various articles out there there's estate agents that can help you walk the journey and then never underestimate the amount of help that you can get from family and friends who have walked the path. And I think then to speak to those who are already home owners and are probably already feeling the economic effects of this COVID-19 crisis and are very likely struggling to service their home loans. What kind of payment relief does ATSA have on offer for them? So we've designed a payment relief program for our clients who have had either reduction in their income or lost in income it's basically three months we will not have to make your bond payment now this is available to our clients who are currently in good standing because I mean we'd like to retain those clients so how it basically works is you can either phone our contact center on 0861 222272 or you can email BondRS BondRomeoSierra and then we'll guide you through the process so the three payments that you don't make we will however continue to leave the interest over those three months and our service fee and if you've got insurance we'll also add those to your total outstanding balance although you don't have to service them over the three month period and then what we do is we then recalculate the term of your loan so that after the three month period has elapsed your payment does not exceed what you were paying before and then essentially we take those three payments that we've given you the three grace payments and we add them on to the end of your loan term and in the event then that people at the end of the three months are still finding themselves in a financially difficult position as you said I mean I think even of COVID and if anything it's quite fantastic that a lot of financial institutions were proactive in coming up with solutions fairly early on in the crisis as we had locked out however we know that the full effect of the crisis is probably not going to be felt now perhaps you might be feeling it in September, October how do they mitigate not being able to make those payments in the event of a post that three months they still don't have means to do so I think if you reach out to the bank we kind of eventually standing in the same corner I know that when there's difficulties with payment it doesn't always feel like you're in the same corner as the bank but at the end of the day when a bank has to go through a reposition and a force sell process actually it hurts the bank as well it's actually not something that we enjoy doing so reach out to the bank and sort of make a plan there's various other options that are available and one of the options might or the most suitable option might actually be in that we help you to actually sell the property so that it's not a force sale because if it's a force sale you end up getting a lot less for the property so we've also got that option where we can actually help you sell the property and get a fair price for it settle your bond and perhaps even get some cash out and I think with one of the questions that we certainly have been coming out is whether or not banks in general I suppose here access specifically are actually looking for new clients so looking for new home loan clients during this particular crisis or is that a department that certainly for the time being is almost and it will be back after the crisis so are you signing up for new home loan so when people go to privateproperty.co.co.com today and they see great property and they go and view from next week on this we know that state agents are going to be able to view and they really fall in love with the property they sign that OTP what is APSA currently open to extending those credit facilities to clients Yes so we definitely still open for business and we still processing we're not necessarily aggressively pursuing growth as we were before the pandemic however we'll always be open for business for good clients so if you're a great client and you've got a great property we always really to make a deal with And the last one is around funding to entrepreneurs so essentially the ways in which entrepreneurs can prove to the banks that they are actually they can afford to service a home loan facility what are some of the tips that you would give for entrepreneurs even freelancers who do have a relatively stable income but unsalaryed like a lot of people are who typically go for a home loan how do they best navigate that home ownership journey I think let me maybe take a step and a half back to sort of explain I mean I know as banks we normally get quite a lot of flack about how difficult the process is if you're not a salaried individual I mean as a bank we're a deposit taking institution so we're taking other people's deposits and people are trusting us with their money and then what we then do is we take the money and we're onended to someone else who wants to buy a home so Zama if you've trusted us with your money we have to we have to be worthy of that trust and be very responsible who we lend the money to so if someone is not salaried it's a bit more difficult for us to ascertain that that person will have a constant stream of income to afford the payments that are required on the loans it's important for us to establish this because it's a it's good for us and it's good for the individual who also don't want individuals to overend it themselves so that's why we'll then end up asking for for example for six month bank statements to to try and get a bit of a longer track record in terms of your in terms of your earnings so that's the first thing I think just get getting your your financials and maybe your bank transactions ready to be able to produce that six months of evidence to say hey I've been having consistent income into my bank account for a period of six months so getting the funds into electronic format getting a paper trail behind your earnings the second thing is there are also property entrepreneurs out there people who want to be investors now as apps we've got a buy to let product if you're a property investor you can actually come to the bank and say hey I'm a property investor in fact if you've got other properties we also take that rental income into account and you can say I'm looking to buy this property we assess the property we assess the area and then we come up with a proxy for the type of rental income that you can get and we actually include the future rental income as part of the calculation as well so we've also got that solution that caters to property entrepreneurs and of course to our viewers at home if you want to find out more about that apps' future rental income do listen or watch rather the interview that we had with Miguel Martins about two weeks ago another question here from Bongza Sabakwe now who asks can you re-advance on two different properties from different banks to buy one new property if I'm understanding the question I'm assuming Bongza is trying to find out you've got two separate properties you have bonds on these properties over time you've paid off these bonds and then you've got what we call equity so the difference between your outstanding balance and your original bond value so definitely Bongza you can go back to the bank and say can I get a re-advance of my funds on this property and then the bank makes an assessment obviously we also look at affordability whether you can afford to make the higher monthly payments to pay for the additional amount of money and then we advance that those funds to you as cash and then once the cash is in your account you can essentially receive the cash from two separate banks on two separate properties and then it's up to you how you disperse those funds going forward Mozi I think we're going to leave it there for this evening thank you so much for joining us thank you very much that is Mozi Warkism who is the manager of data analytics and app home loans thank you very much for tuning into episode 35 of the private property podcast I'm your host Zaman Doha we're back again on Monday episode 36 we're kicking off youth month so you absolutely do not want to miss that one I hope you have a great weekend you stay home and stay safe what is a bank at a time like this in a world filled with uncertainties where lives are put on hold business paused and working together means staying apart being a bank means staying connected it means being a part of your future providing relief at a time of need and doing this through effective secure online platforms it means staying in touch when everyone else seems distant being a bank means knowing that we've come from far and are yet to go further and that possibly this could be a time for a new beginning an opportunity to reflect and rebuild we are alongside you helping you to finance your dreams and grow your legacies we are in this together we are in this together we are in this together we are in this together we are in this together we are in this together once as Amazon I'm Jarrod Siegel I'm a local restaurateur and the owner of Jarrod's espresso bar and eatery in Seapoint I'm a Cape Town local Camps Bay born and bred and I've been living in Sydney Australia for the last few years living abroad I've always been drawn to the mother city and I've recently decided to come back home taking lifestyle factors into consideration Bantry Bay has been the perfect fit for me living on the Atlantic Seaboard really resonates with what I'm all about from the active lifestyle the amazing food culture it's family friendly environment and amazing natural beauty the quality of life we have on offer is really unique the Atlantic Seaboard has some of the most beautiful suburbs in the country with areas like Camps Bay and its world renowned beach culture and the recent refurbishment of Seapoint Promenade it's no wonder our neighbourhood has such a global appeal after a long day of hard work there's nothing better than taking a walk along Clifton Beach sharing a moment and watching the sunset trying to offer something authentic to the community I'm not about reinventing the wheel just doing the classics really well and this is my neighbourhood and doing this through effective secure online platforms it means staying in touch whenever one else seems distant being a bank means knowing that we've come from far and are yet to go further and that possibly this could be a time for a new beginning an opportunity to reflect and rebuild we are alongside you helping you to finance your dreams and grow your legacies we are in this together once is almost done that is African Leicester