 we'll call we'll call the 26th regular meeting in common council order Pat would you call the roll please Bowman here Berg here Boonee Doyle Graf Manny Montemere Moody here oh excused excuse Peruz Rinflesch Stefan he's excused also and the reason Alderman Stefan is not here this evening is his mother passed away this weekend so council wishes we will be sending flowers to the funeral home and then we'll get a card to circulate around the council okay then Akron Van der Wiel one of them in Warner Weninger 14 present Corms present Alderman Graf thank you honor I'd move that we approve the minutes of the the last common council meeting in the same stand approve it's answered on the record moved a second at minutes of the previous council meeting stand approved under discussion hearing none all in favor I pose motion carry Alderman Manny would you lead us in a pledge please I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all these people are just tough to teach no reason to be heard Alderman Graf you are now moved that the hearings be closed moved is second to hearings be closed under discussion hearing none all in favor I posed motion carry public forum pat no consent agenda Alderman Graf thank you and I'll move that items 26 1 through 26 5 that all our seas be accepted and placed on file all hours be accepted adopted we pass all resolutions actually goes through 26 25 26 25 25 no 26 25 thought you said 5 oh no I said 26 1 through 26 5 okay at 26 25 we know that all documents from 26 1 through 26 25 all our O's be accepted filed our seas be accepted adopted and resolutions be put up on your passage under discussion who had a second okay Pat would you call the roll burger bonnet Doyle Roth I many Monta Mayor Perez windflash then Akron Vander wheel one woman Warner Winniger Bowman 14 eyes motion carry 26 26 by public protection safety recommended denying beverage operators license 5760 based on her non-cooperation with the committee Alderman Doyle thank you your honor I moved the report of committee be accepted and adopted they moved as reported committee be accepted and adopted under discussion yes I'd like to inquire if miss Hartman is here to speak in her own behalf miss Harbin she has not put go ahead with the proceedings is there any discussion hearing none would you call the roll bonnet Doyle hi graph many Monta Mayor Perez windflash then Akron Vander wheel one woman Warner Winniger Bowman Berg 14 eyes motion carry 26 27 30 to be referred 26 31 that will be referred also and there's discussion on that Alderman I heard a beep no Alderman Warner I think your honor I guess what I read this document I did talk Alderman graph about it the finance chair and I just I try to not have a problem with the last sentences in this document but I still do and I'd like to make some changes and refer to finance that way and the issue that's contained in the last paragraph that they feel they want to talk about I think they still can do that so I would like to amend the document and I would like to do so by amending in the third sentence where it says additional says additional I'd like to mend that to the word take additional out and insert the word three where where it says additional police officers where it says additional take additional just it should it should read recommending the hiring of three police officers not additional they're not additional because they're already part on the to correct so you're taking additional out and taking additional out and in its place putting the word three and then that as that reads on police officers one now and two by the end of 2004 recommends that the documents be referred to the committee on finance of new common counsel from that point on I would like to remove the rest of that sentence the word additional is actually taken from the original document it's not part of this document so the recommendation is really the only thing that you're going to be acting on I understand that but the word additional in itself is these are not additional officers they are on the to so it's it's what they're at what this document the intent of it was to ask is to fill the to with the police department not to add additional officers the word additional in there makes it sound like we're increasing the size of the police force and and I think that that I don't really know it's it's semantics but I think it's an important distinction and I think we should okay that I'm saying is that was part of the wording of the original RC 341 and I believe that okay so okay Alderman Warner if I think Alderman Van Akron has the document before if I remember correctly that was for one police officer known if the budget exactly money in a budget from the state that other two would be filled well not just the state the budget in general it obviously we don't have the money we're not going to hire somebody if you don't have the money but I think that has to be part of their last last meeting right it was a minute that 2004 was going out of there that we're not hiring two at the end of 2004 we're going to hire if the budget allows allows we got 2004 again and that's no long well in that's not only in it but if the budget allows isn't in here anymore just says we're going to hire two by the end of 2004 doesn't save the budget and I could and I could agree with making that change also because that's the way it came out of public protection and and and Salah and grievance public protection came out we should hire the officer Salah and grievance said we should hire one officer now and to buy the end of 2004 if we can come up with funding and all those are gone and instead of that it says I don't believe it was quite right all them in order great so I'm here it's came up with we hire one now and we hire two if the budget allows it when a budget time came up not 2004 was made it out of there completely and it was amended last last meeting that's what I was thinking I can and you can take 2004 out I'm fine with that if the budget allows because obviously we're not going to hire any police officers if the budget doesn't allow it for it doesn't say too old for it doesn't now not in the recommendation and that the recommendation is what was amended last time it says it in ours huh it says it in mind it says in mind it says add one now and two by the end of 2004 that's not the part of the recommendations what I'm saying after the semicolon hey you have your recommendation that's what was amended last time saying that you would hire three officers if the council goes on record for a joint dispatch with the county that would be in place by 2005 that was the amendment last meeting last meeting was in front of fire was not hired in 2004 was the hire by the budget right if I may finance committee their last meeting made a recommendation that this came to us originally after our last council meeting which was on the was it the 8th oh that's right okay on the 8th we were referred this document at our last finance committee meeting what we did was we discussed ways that we could fulfill this request which was to find the funding one of the ways we we thought about finding funding funding was to explore the this joint dispatch with the county and if that could be in place by 2005 there would be additional funding available and that's why I know Alderman Warner is was saying that they should delete that but this is just a report of committee it's nothing that is going to be voted on by this council except the phrase in here says that one of the things that finance committee came up with at this point was to go with a joint dispatch now they may recommend something else when this goes back to the new committee on finance and it may may take out the word joint just say have the county do the entire dispatching for for the city but then that is something that this council has to act on those recommendations so okay and I guess when I read this that's the part that bothers me is it is us it is us seeing in there to the new council that if we approve sending this forward with those words in there that this council in some way agrees with only hiring those police officers if we go to a joint dispatch center and I feel uncomfortable with that because we haven't debated it on the floor of this council and I think that part should be taken out and finance can look at all the issues in finance kind of all of them and one of them thank you I'd have to support all of them in order on that one it always seems that the police department which has an established to is on the short end of the stick in German we call it a schnitzel kind or a stepchild and I don't know why the police department is always the stepchild other departments who are in public safety protection have a full to at all times the police department doesn't somewhere this council voted to have a authorized strength of the police department and somehow we have chosen to take the police department and say well we can save some bucks here we can save some bucks there we will just go without a couple of more cops on the street and yet everywhere you go people tell me I would support an extra increase in my property tax if it bought me two three four more officers on the street people are worried they don't like the way things are going on the streets of Sheboygan we have armed robberies now we have mini marks being held up we have drug use this stuff never existed 20 years ago it was unheard of so it just really amazes me that we can't seem to ever fill the to on the police department I don't know why they always have to be left hanging out in the cold when we can find monies for everything in the world what are we supposed to tell people if there's somebody hitting on the head and there's nobody around call a bus driver I mean we got plenty of bus drivers that aren't doing too much you know something has got to be done here and I think it's about time we stopped using the police department as a convenient means to boost our budget if we have to say the two dirty words raised taxes then let's say them and let's get some cops on the street where people want them to be and we've got support out there for that I talked to a lot of people and they tell me a lot of stuff now it's true people are gonna say well you're prejudiced you run a police program yeah I'm prejudiced I want good law enforcement in the city of Sheboygan I want good fire protection that's what I'm prejudiced for and if we have to raise the taxes a couple of bucks then we got to say those mean dirty words raised taxes okay all the money for us I was just gonna say did we get a no we didn't but hang on all right go ahead okay honor yes thank you I guess everything is being said as merit and deserve discussion my only concern is that we amended a document that was forwarded to this council by the salient grievance and all I recall is that document saying we're gonna hire one now and two if the if the budget allows it in 205 correct that's all we need to act on tonight in my opinion and we can go off in different directions and talk about what's needed and what's not but that's that's a good discussion that we should have when the next budget comes around okay your second that cancer Alderman Wong of this question about why did he was it wasn't filled up in the y-war three short that was agreement with the police chief that he'd hold a couple guys low he felt it was adequate to do that so but now with the way things are changing he feels that he would like to go back up that was one of the grievance when the budget came around that that was discussed your honor you're correct because the chief came in a couple of times and that was this part of going in keeping the budget on was to take the people off it wasn't a sovereign grievance he that's what he came in with so it wasn't us okay so do we have this right now yes what I was referring to was the recommendation from from salaries and grievances to finance to hire the three officers that was the most the amending motion last time okay then finance did come in with the one with going to a joint dispatch that's really the only recommendation now it is not a resolution it's not an ordinance it's a recommendation so I've got it that you want to leave the word additional and add the number three and end your recommendation after the words the new common council anyone have anything else before it goes Alderman Warner and ending after the new common council that's it so the rest you would strike okay I'm fine with that all of them on thank you mr. Mayor okay this piece of paper came from finance now what was just offered as as an amendment is that what finance meant this back to new finance committee with one of the ways to do this to do what the original request was was to also go on record and explore the possibility of a joint dispatch it can be taken off I won't support that only because the four members of finance that voted to make that recommendation if I'm chair of finance again which I believe I will be or I'm hoping I'm going to be I will remember that this was on there so I will bring it in at that time again so otherwise I'll bring it in as my own because it doesn't say must it says explore correct all right thank you okay all of an array thank you your honor I hear with mr. Alderman graph that what we're really doing is the finance committee is reporting back to us with the recommendation I was not at that finance committee meeting but we're voting on is accepting this document saying this is what they recommend to do there is no resolution attached there is no ordinance attached it's only a report from that committee reporting back to us what they discussed in the recommendation I'm uncomfortable come in this council changing what they're recommending to us when I wasn't there at that meeting so I also won't support the change I think it's a good idea I agree with what we're trying to do by hiring additional police officers but that's not what we're doing there's no ordinance here what we're trying to do is just get a report accepted from finance to this common counsel I think we should take with their report and and as is not changing all of an order last time yes I think I did have something I wrote just to kind of address why I feel this way about that sentence in the document I'm not against finance discussing those issues in finance although I think that's something that the police department should and the fire department should be on those discussions regarding joint dispatch because we're talking about the health and safety of our citizens in the city and they are the ones who respond to it so finance should be saying we're gonna have joint dispatch whether you like it or not without studying the facts and I know you're not but when you if you just read this raw that's how it can come out at you and I guess what I wanted to know is why would we tie the hiring of police officers to whether or not we support supported joint dispatch center in the first place to me that just doesn't make sense if we need police officers which we do we should hire them yes we need to find the funding we all know that we certainly are not going to hire someone and not pay them we have to remember these are not additional positions I think that's important that's why I felt that word really didn't belong in there these are existing positions on a department's table of organization and all and all them in vernacron is correct as part of the budget saving measures the chief did agree not to fill those positions but now he's saying he can't do that again for another year to tie the hiring of of needed city employee especially a public safety employee to whether or not we can reach a future agreement with another government body does not make sense I don't care if it's a police position a fire position or public works position it just simply doesn't make sense to me to tie it hiring of anyone's in city government to whether we can reach an agreement with another government body if we want to look at joint dispatch to me that's a different issue changing the wording of this will not impact in any way the finance committee's options for funding these positions by not taking the wording of this document I think I still think that we will be sending what I believe would be a false message to the next council and the next finance committee we'll be stating that we fully debated joint dispatch that it's a great thing and we'll be done and that we agree with this implementation just by those words that are on there even though it is just a report of committee that's in that simply isn't so it's not something that we have debated it's not something that has been investigated they looked at it several years ago three or four years ago we talked about it with the county and we haven't been at the issue I think it's more far more complex than a two-minute argument or in this case was turning into a 12-minute argument I don't think we should be sending this forward to new council because it's not something that this whole council has debated and says that we can even agree with and and in the new council they can discuss the issue and I think it I think it does something to this document that if nothing else sends a message out there to the police department that we're really not interested in hiring police officers unless you do something else that we don't even know if it's going to be a good thing or not so I just think that in that case we can take that out there's Alderman Groff said they can still discuss this and we can get public protection involved in there in the police and fire departments who have to respond from the Joint Dispatch Center should there ever be one and at that time if it's a good thing we're probably going to go for it I was mentioned that the county sheriff thinks that they could do it well sure with providing him to present additional resources he could but you know what the city sheboygan could do dispatch for the entire county too because they have the same set up the county has yes it's a duplication of services that's why we're talking about it but dispatch in the city is not the same as dispatch across the whole county we have far more calls in the city sheboygan than they have across the county and far more miles and roads and streets and houses that are compacted in a small area so there's a lot of issues out there but I just don't think we need to include that in here thank you thank you Alderman Groff thank you your honor just to answer one of Alderman Warner's question the reason this is in is because we were charged we the finance committee was charged with finding ways that could provide funding for these three police officers this was one thing that was mentioned we put it in our report because we didn't have enough time in finance to discuss all the other things that may come up and so we put it in this report to refer to the committee on finance of the new new committee we did not debate the issue of joint dispatch we did not say this was going to be done that was going to be done because that's not the issue tonight the issue is only this finance committee document whether or not this and it was an issue that came up in finance that said if we would do this this would be a possible way to get funding for those three officers period maybe next time we have an issue like this we should have joint meetings at some of the committees to discuss this and so everybody's on the same page we're selling grievance finance and public protection safety everybody's on the same page we all all go in the same direction Pat would you call the roll please this is just on the amendment everybody know what the amendment is yeah would you read it please the amendment is to delete delete the word additional and add the number three and end the recommendation after the new Common Council and so that's deleting the rest of the sentence Daryl Manny Montemayor I forgot Graf from the wrong place Perez Rindflash Van Akron Vanderveel Wonderman Warner Weninger Bauman Berg Bonnet nine eyes five nose carried yes I'll make a motion that as amended the document be referred to finance committee so we move to the second the document referred to finance committee under discussion Alderman right I just want to clarify I hope those are watching at home don't take the no vote to the amendment as against the police or against hiring a new police force to me it's the structural the Common Council's run on a committee basis I was not at that committee I have to accept the report as the committee discussed it and use that as information there so in no way I think most of those no votes would agree with me we're just trying to maintain the integrity of the committee structure here and I'll we'll vote to accept it now okay don't know the discussion all in favor I posed motion carried matters laid over 2543 a resolution by Alderman Graf and Longerman authorizing entering to agreement for employee assistant program Alderman Graf and I move that the resolution be put upon its passage you want to take 2544 also or well that's a different committee all right that's fine I need a second let's move to a second resolution be put upon its passage under discussion hearing none would you call the roll please Graf I many Monta Mayor Perez we're in I'm sorry then Akron Vanderuil Wongam and Warner Winnigar Bowman Berg Bonnet Doyle 14 eyes motion carry 2544 resolution by Alderman Graf Stefan and Bonnie authorizing transfer of corporations in the 2004 budget Alderman Graf you under that resolution and 2545 which is a resolution by myself Stefan and Bonnet authorizing the transfer of corporations also in the 2004 budget I would move that those two resolutions be put upon their passage moved in second to two resolution be put upon their passage under discussion hearing none would you call the roll please many Monta Mayor Perez Rinfai Ben Akron Vanderuil Wongam and Warner Winnigar Bowman Berg Bonnet Doyle Graf 14 eyes motion carried 25453 RC by public protection safety recommending filing documents submitting a communication from Street T's on Yang requesting removal of a no parking here to corner sign in front of her business and passing the attached ordinance Alderman Warner thank you I make a motion to accept and file the report of officer and pass the attached ordinance report committee moved in second to adopt to report a committee and passed to general ordinance under discussions under discussion your honor the removal of the parking restrictions will allow Miss Yang's customers to park in front of her place of business at 13th and Michigan the outdated the parking zone there that had no parking from here to corners and outdated zone that dates back to prior to reconstruction of 14th Street and this will allow people to park right in front of her business right now they have to park about almost a whole building down to the east so that's public protection safety committee and not traffic sergeant looked at this and recommended to change if there's no other discussion Pat would you call the roll Monta Mayor Perez Renflex Ben Akron Vanderbilt Wangeman Warner Weninger Bowman Bird Pony Doyle Graf Manny 14 eyes motion carried other matters Steve I think we still have one on the agenda okay 2653 we just did 2632 that would lie over finance okay line over that will go to finance in 2633 that's that one can be accepted and filed an ordinance be put upon his passage on your amended page of the agenda hold him in order I think I would make a motion to accept and file the report of officer and that the ordinance be passed moving to second accept and file the RO and ordinance be put upon his passage under discussion under discussion your honor this is from the plan commission and it is rezoning changing the zoning map she was only map for the South Pier district from class PPUD preplanned unit development to class South Pier planned unit development 2004 one we discussed as a plan commission and and it's a zoning change in the district just know the discussion that would you call the roll Perez Renflex Ben Akron Vanderbilt Wangeman Warner Weninger Bowman Bird Pony Doyle Graf Manny Montemay 14 eyes motion carried Steve 2634 is a committee report by the building use committee with respect to the municipal parking lot at seventh and Penn that will go to Sheboygan transit Alderman Weninger I would like to say a few words this is my last day under city council and I represented the fifth district constitution for four years I represented them honest and fair and to the best of my knowledge so the incoming outer person good luck to you and to all of you we had our disagreements all your outer people but we always came together and respected each other and I thank you for that there are three special people at this council and I call them the pillar of this city council they became my mentors my friends and they will always be my friends thank you Mike Warner thank you Tim graph and thank you Anthony Pony you are the greatest I like to think city clerk Pat Losey and her staff Debbie Sue and Linda for all your help sometimes I was a ding-dong but you helped me and now a very very special thank you to our honorable mayor your honor it was a privilege and an honor to serve with you on this council and I thank you what you have done for this city and will continue to do for the city keep up the good work thank you thank you now I will spend more time with my beloved we have W.R. Silver I will gonna improve my golf skills be needed but I will continue attending council meetings I'm gonna change I'm gonna sit back there and I will watch you can I say again thank you sure in our feet I say not but I will be back thank you be caring with Alderman Doyle thank you your honor I wish to thank the voters of district three for allowing me to serve two terms it's been an honor and a pleasure serving with the common council and the mayor and I found the department heads to be especially outstanding and I thank you for the great cooperation that I found individually I'd like to thank Sue Richards and Chuck Adams for making the liquor licensing go extremely well I'd like to thank Sergeant Tarkowski for helping me with all the abandoned vehicles I'd like to thank Matt Livingston who answered every complaint I put in despite having just been literally part time at building inspection and also Kathy at municipal services building who took care of every garbage and mowing complaint that I ever submitted thank you thank you well thank you your honor usually at the end of our council year I'll usually give a short speech about departing council members be it by retirement or by the agony of defeat I'd like to first speak about Alderman Moody she's actually not in our presence this evening but I know very well she's watching on television tonight so it'll be as if I'm talking directly to you Betty Betty you and I were elected together I can't remember when but I think it was about let me think a hundred years ago something like that I mean you kind of know exactly right was mayor you've served on quite a few committees during your many terms as Alderman it makes me wonder exactly how you really did it you even filled in when someone would ask you to attend a meeting in place of one of us that was really dedication a job well done do you remember the saying when we first started on council two kicks at the cat I think you remember it mayor yes I know that for sure that's right I'm gonna say it one more time two kicks at the cat when someone would get up more than once to speak on the same subject they would always refer to it as such well after much convincing of our fellow council members and our mayor it seemed to finally go away as pet owners we took these words very seriously and I hope never to hear them again in this council room we know you will miss working with friends you've made during this time and I know I will continue our friendship for a very long time but I tell you what we will be seeing you at garage sales and don't forget about your eBay business either we will all miss you I'm gonna move on then to Alderman Winniger who is departing us also this evening at her last council meeting and mayor may I direct personally to her thank you I think we will miss the feistiness that you have shown on this council never afraid to work for your constituency or ask questions Alderman Winniger personally has worked hard for those who lived on or near Camelot Boulevard she also came prepared for the meetings I personally think you have served the city well in the short time that you have been here and I really think we'll be hearing from you again as I already heard you say and we will miss you too Jerry Doyle Jerry has served a year with our late Alderman Jerry Schneider and has been my colleague for several years since Jerry has worked hard for the two districts which he and I both represent not only by improving them but also helping improve the entire city during meetings he was never afraid to express his very interesting points of view one thing I will say he did all of his homework and was well prepared for every meeting which he has attended I'll miss working with you Jerry and I only wish Jerry a good retirement but the rest of our departing also all the persons the best and all they do thank you thank you Alderman Warner I think your honor I did these alphabetically this evening DMW got a little bit of a ring to it but I'll start with Alderman Doyle Jerry Jerry Jerry probably one of the most interesting intelligent stubborn persons I've ever met one day he's on your side on this issue in the next day he's against you on another it always whether he agrees with you or does not always a gentleman when the debate has ended no matter the outcome and that's the way a council should function Alderman Doyle has been an extremely valuable member of the Public Protection and Safety Committee as Vice Chairman Jerry oversaw the licensing function for I believe it's too past the two past years and he's worked very hard with a licensing clerk to streamline and improve the liquor licensing process to a point where it is much more effective than ever before Jerry has been a strong advocate of building inspection and worked hard to address the needs of the city and his district in maintaining our neighborhoods and their needs Jerry has really never missed a beat except for perhaps once you see I can get into you one thing I do not have a white horse they are not allowed in the city but Alderman Doyle has been an active and hard-working member of the Common Council and his efforts have made sheboying any better place to live for all of us Alderman Doyle I thank you for your service to your constituents and the city sheboying and especially working with you really has been a really good thing for our committee and for the other things we've done together and I do appreciate it next is Alderman Moody all the person Moody has been a servant to her district for I think it's 14 years I could be awful a little on that but Betty has been involved in all the major decisions that she boy can had it has moved sheboying forward in the past decade I have had the privilege of working with Betty on public protection safety for at least three years she was on our committee this year once before and then the first year I was on the council I think with now State Senator Libam she was on the committee with us at that time I think also she's been a strong supporter of her city's police and fire departments as well as building inspection and public works and Betty has served on many committees public works among them and others and always with distinction keeping in mind the needs of the people in her district and the city at large never afraid to ask a question and always a pleasure to work with Betty the council will miss you and so will she boy again and I thank you for your years of unselfish service to the city of Sheboygan and I did get those pictures on of the Blue Harbor Resort and the cruise ship that was in there on this CD and I was going to give them to you tonight so I'm gonna have to deliver them now since you're not here but they are on that CD and it only took about two minutes Alderman Wenner all the person Ingrid Wenner is a person whose presence brings smiles to everyone's face Ingrid has served Sheboygan and its people very well on the public protection safety committee finance and salary and grievance Ingrid has served Sheboygan with its best interests in mind Ingrid also served on strategic fiscal planning and helped us to hold her budget to virtually no increase in the levy this past year she served on the Mears International Committee the 50th anniversary of the Korean War commemorative committee among others she's brought an insight and opinion to the council that is not likely to be replicated by anyone her can-do attitude and unflinching work ethic should be admired by all of us Ingrid is also a friend a real joy to be around and I will miss her on the council she has assured me that she will not let the council off the hook and she made that statement quite well and we'll work in the background to ensure our success the cities and the councils to one of the nicest and most wonderful people I've ever met Ingrid I'll miss you and soul Sheboygan thank you anyone else have anything they want to say before we adjourn I just want to say Alderman Doyle Alderman Wininger and Alderman Moody Alderman Moody couldn't be with us this evening she has a feeling well but I'd like to thank you for your service on this council each one did an excellent job we appreciate it and I'm sure your constituents do too and good luck in the future no matter what you do good luck in the future you're welcome okay Alderman somebody beep Alderman draw is this year's past president I thought I just say thank you to all all the council members working so hard this this past year and I know whoever will take the place of myself will take my place on that they I'm sure will get your support and you'll be able to deal with them and then to the three people that will be leaving I want to thank you for your service Betty I've worked with early in my former career when I was on the council before that this time so I've worked with her and I know how she operates and she was always there supportive Jerry has been on two committees with me this past year and I thank him for all that he's done for that and to Ingrid who was my vice chairman of finance I just want to thank her special specially because she did take my place on several committees and then also she she did serve on strategic fiscal planning because I supposedly had two votes but couldn't utilize them both so we gave her one and I appreciate her support I would move to adjourn sign it down all in favor