 Working group update. Hi. I'm Alex Scammon. I'm one of the co-chairs for the CNCF batch working group You can find me at stack sacks in a bunch of the regular places the ones that I'm Interested in being on at least I gave a brief update last time in Valencia about the same topic in that conversation. I Thought that it was practical to entertain people with lots of pictures of very cute animals the The theme being that these are batches of animals and In English we have Collective nouns for each one of these batches So you have an embarrassment of pandas a prickle of hedgehogs a waddle of penguins a bed of sloths and a flamboyance of flamingos And that was how I how I kept people engaged or so I thought I Won't stoop so low this time But at the end of that Conversation somebody in the audience asked me if we have collective nouns for kubernetes resources So at the very end of this talk, I'll I'll put forward a humble proposal for collective nouns for things like pods and deployments and things so Until then I'm going to talk about what the batch system initiative working group actually is and Surprise surprise. It's a new working group Another place to come and talk about woes or thoughts or ideas about batch scheduling and a brief history of this Earlier in the year, there's a group called the tag runtime Which a number of people in the audience here are involved with this Ricardo and Ricardo and Clouse and things people are here in this room who drive that conversation But they realized that they were having conversations around batch scheduling over and over and they felt that there was a place for a discussion around batch specifically and So we started to talk in March about that thing that scheduling as its own separate group recently in September of this year we got Approved as a Bonafide CNCF working group thing So just so you're you're aware if you're worried at all We are actually approved and you can come speak with us as a the real CNCF body And what we're what we're largely trying to do is Just have the conversation around What's going on in batch scheduling in a cloud native context today and We're trying to do that at what I've called here is like an application level level which is different from Kubernetes native level where Kubernetes could do batch scheduling itself, but it can't right now. So there's a lot of Alternatives have been created or have been worked on at an application level things that you would Do with another thing to allow you to do batch scheduling in a cloud native context and in Kubernetes for example there's Slurm or condor There are people from those communities in this conversation who talk about taking existing batch schedulers and using them in a cloud native context or We've heard from a couple people here already Gaurav mentioned MCAD earlier We will hear from Jamie about Armada and in a bit There's also Diana is back there on MCAD Volcano is what Klaus Founded so there's a whole bunch of reactions to Kubernetes not being able to do batch scheduling today and that all of these various applications Have grown out around that need so we we sit down and talk about that and all of our shared woes and pains But not just the project maintainers what we what we really wonder the end users who are trying to implement these tools to come and talk to Us about what's going on for them so that we can better Sort of shape and guide our roadmaps in in all of these projects to better ends and this whole conversation is at this higher level than what the Kubernetes working group is talking about and I need to take a moment to talk about that because it is super confusing There are two working groups. There's one called the Kubernetes batch working group And there's us the CNC F batch working group and It's very confusing but to sort it out what's happening here is that the Kubernetes batch working group is working on the lower level initiatives to make Kubernetes more More batch scheduling positive and You heard just before the break Aldo talking about a lot of those movements in like the jobs API to better better serve that scheduling needs and What he was talking about is largely being driven out of that conversation in the batch working group And so it's a lower level conversation Whereas for us in the CNC F batch working group We're not so focused on the lower level Implementation details, but we we're talking about the higher level Workings of the tools that sit above Kubernetes or on top of or with Kubernetes I Hope that makes sense if not come and ask me again. I'll be happy to try and explain it It's complicated. I know but if you're not so interested in those lower level details of how to move the jobs API forward We are probably the place that you want to be talking about the higher level problems that you're facing in the batch ecosystem So what we're doing currently in this conversation Largely, we're having the conversation. We are trying to bring people together all the interested parties. So everyone in this room You're you're here today. You're interested in this conversation I can tell you wouldn't have shown up on a Monday First thing to all the way in Detroit if you weren't interested in this So everyone here should actually be interested in what we have to talk about so This talk right now is is mostly a welcome. Please come and chat with us So that's that's number one what we want to do There's another thing that we're doing which is putting together a survey to send out to the wider cncf audience or beyond to To get more of an idea about what's ailing people what people trying to do in the batch ecosystem So that we can drive the conversation again We would love to get to a point where we could Publish a white paper on the state of batch scheduling in a cloud native context You know the the landscape is very complicated right now There are a lot of tools that do complimentary things a lot of tools that do the same things and For end users to figure out exactly what to use when for which Use case is very hard. So we would love to get to that point where we could publish some guidance for every one of the cncf landscape and Ideally ideally we would actually set up some sandboxes for people to come and Play around with these tools to get an actual sense of them because you you often need a sizable estate to be able to test these things out usefully you know, this is large-scale stuff and We're hoping that we can get some resources to put to put something together for people to come and and mess around so That's what we're currently working on Very quickly if you're interested in this conversation Please come and join us We meet every week. I'm sorry every other week at 8 a.m. Pacific standard time There's a zoom Channel that you can join if you join the Google group. You should magically have the calendar Invite added to your thing and you will be forever ours If that doesn't prove to be the case jump on the slack find us in the batch working group channel on the cloud native slack workspace There are some other useful links out there. You can also reach out to me or my co-chair Klaus Our emails are there really happy to talk and Then lastly as I promised some of the collective nouns that I've just come to propose Could work for us at a pondering of pods perhaps a cacophony of containers anyone a Catastrophe of clusters a conundrum of custom resource of definitions Positively a delight of Damon sets a duchy of Deployments a revolt of replica sets just just some thoughts if you have any others if you want to suggest things, please reach out and Then a raft of otters. Thanks very much. That's it for me. Thank you Alex any questions So is the working group focused on Kubernetes as the lower level orchestration substrate or is this Yeah, I was trying very hard to not say Kubernetes specifically throughout this talk and just cloud native context in Practice we have been talking a lot about Kubernetes as the lower level substrate for Orchestration, but I I think that we would like the conversation to be broader than that ideally You know, we will be hopefully looking at other Cloud Context so my question. How's the graduation from bad Working group to say it will look like I mean today we are talking and we collaborate together. What's the next step? I mean, I don't think we graduate. I think it's we were spun off of a conversation out of a tag or out of a sig And we will be our what we are for The duration So it's not like we're trying to get to some other magical level We are a working group that wants to have people like you involved Either to help the conversation or to do some of the initiatives I was talking about the survey or the white paper or setting up the infrastructure We intend to to do things in this conversation that that helps Well In the working group, you know, we don't quote and the sig is where the code list Yeah, so when is that transition will happen? So I mentioned the Kubernetes batch working group and So if it's specific to the the Kubernetes coding that Aldo was talking about for example the the discussion is happening in the Kubernetes working group and I believe there's a sig that is taking on the developments of the job API and the The Q project and things like that for us the the maintainers of those projects that I mentioned like MCAD or Armada or volcano or slurm or echicondo or perhaps unicorn Are all in the discussion there So there's not a sig to go to it's those those specific projects all have their maintainers And we'll be taking the feedback from this discussion to their own projects So that help Any other questions?