 Think Tech Away. Civil engagement lives here. And welcome to another edition of Hawaii in Uniform. My name is Calvin Griffin, host of the program. And for those of you who may not have seen the program before here, we talk about a lot of different issues concerning our veterans and active duty. Today we're going to hit the ground running. We have a lot of important information to get out and there's a lot of activities going on. One of the activities, for first off, yesterday was declared Vietnam Veterans Appreciation Day. And across the country there are a lot of people who are celebrating and giving a well deserved thank you to a lot of our servicemen and women who served in Vietnam. But right now we have Ms. Lisa Rosa, who's the CEO of an organization called the Value of a Veteran. And there's an event that's going on down at the Oahu Veterans Center in Foster Village. And Lisa, are you there? Yes, I am. Thank you, Calvin. Good. Could you tell us a little bit about yourself, the organization, and what you're trying to accomplish today? I know you were down there yesterday, but how are things going? Things are going well. We would love to see more servicemembers here at our event. What we are doing is a very unique collection of career fairs. So we're specifically looking for either active transitioning military, guard or reserve, veterans or military spouses as long as they have skilled trades experience. Whether they got that skilled trades experience through their military time or if it's something they picked up after leaving the service and have been in the civilian employment world for a while. We're looking for folks with experience in welding and fabrication, all kinds of mechanics, aircraft mechanics, wheeled vehicle mechanics, HVAC, construction, truck driving, anything in the skilled trades arena. We want to see you down here. We have a website where there's plenty of information. It's called militaryskildtrades.com. I'll say it again, militaryskildtrades.com. We're doing a total of 26 events at different military bases across the United States. And we kicked off our first three of the 26 here in Hawaii. So this is our last day actually on the island doing this career fair. We are at the Oahu Veterans Center and we'll be here till about 2 o'clock. So if you're listening now, jump in your car. If this describes you, please try to get down here. We have one employer here on site who is interviewing servicemembers. And if you meet their criteria for the active jobs that they're trying to fill right now, they have a very heavy need for aircraft maintenance technician. So if that describes you, please make an effort to come down. Then you can get an onsite interview with hiring managers today. You could potentially have a job offer very quickly. Or you could be pipelined if you're not getting out of the military for a little bit of time. We also have another employer called AECOM. They're a large engineering firm. They're participating virtually. So they've got about 2,000 jobs. They need to fill nationwide. So some here on the island and others in the states, I believe they have about 45 jobs open right now here in Hawaii. And then the rest are somewhere else in the states. So again, we're looking for folks with that particular background. My company called The Value of Veteran, we are a company that trains and educates employers on how to develop effective veteran recruiting and retention programs. We launched these career fairs in the last year because we wanted to be able to do more niche career fairs that would help our clients really kind of target the very specific types of roles they're trying to fill. And skill trades is a really, really huge need right now in corporate America. All kinds of big companies need the skill trades. So if you're not available today, I would recommend you still go to the militaryskiltrains.com website and click on registration. You can fill out a profile. You can submit a resume. And then you'll be seen by any of the employers who participated here in Hawaii, plus all of our employers who are participating at any of the other locations where we're doing career fairs this year. Great. Okay. So this is the Wahoo Veterans Center down at Foster Village. And I know the number down there is 422-4000 if anybody would like to call in, you know, talk. But just real quick, one of the organizations or companies you're dealing with is Boeing. Do they have representatives down there or you're just interfacing with them? Oh, absolutely. Yeah, they have recruiters here on site who can do kind of the initial screening and see if you're a fit for any of the roles that they may have nationwide. Excuse me, nationwide for Boeing. And then if you meet the criteria for the really specific jobs they're trying to fill immediately, which is the aircraft technician job, there's actually hiring managers here on site. So you can get an on-site interview, which is really, really rare at a career fair to get an on-site interview. So if you meet that criteria, you know, you can make that happen today if you can get down here and talk. Okay. And again, your number one more time. We're at the Wahoo Veterans Center. Unfortunately, I don't have the address in front of me, but you mentioned a foster village. So we'll be here until approximately two o'clock. So the more people we see coming in the door, the more likely we'll stay, you know, right up to the end of two. Great. Okay. Well, thank you very much for what you're doing for the Veterans here and service members here in Hawaii. And be down there later to talk to you. All right. Thank you so much. Okay. Have a nice day. Okay. Again, that sounded foster village Wahoo Veterans Center. Again, their number is 422-4000. As I mentioned, a lot of things is going on with the Vietnam appreciation commemoration. But right now, I have three guests actually, one online, Mr. Ron Owens, who is coming up with some very important information yet about POWs, that issue. But Mr. and Mrs. Hickerson, okay. Thank you for joining me. First, I'll start off with Carol. Ladies, first, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your Italian? Well, I am involved, obviously, number one in the veterans from Vietnam. My husband was a Vietnam veteran. And my previous husband was also a Vietnam veteran, but was killed in, actually, in Laos. He was serving in Vietnam as a Marine and was shot down in 1967. And I dealt a long time, many, many years, trying to find out what happened to him. And eventually his remains were returned through a lot of efforts by, you know, the people out at DPAA. And his remains were returned there. But the issue of the MIAs changed over the years. And when my husband was listed as MIA, we were told, and it was a government policy then, to not talk about the issue, which was difficult in that we didn't know anybody else going through the same situation. And it was hard not to, you know, talk to friends. Obviously, I told my family, but talking to friends as time went on, it became more difficult to not be able to express what had happened to him. Steve Hansen was his name. He was shot down, June 3, 1967 in Laos, was a Marine helicopter pilot. And the thing that happened as time went on is that, you know, we weren't getting any information from the government. We didn't know each other. That was one of the hardest parts, is that we had nobody else to communicate with as far as other wives going through the same thing. So I sent a letter to about 300 newspapers across the country, just explaining the plight of the POWs and the MIAs as far as no adherence to the Geneva Conventions, no letters, no nothing, basically. And the best thing that came about from that was that, you know, I got mail from other wives, POW, MIA family members, because we began to connect. And we eventually established the National League of Families of POWs and MIAs. We became a nonprofit organization which gave us a lot of privileges as far as number one. You know, donations came in where we were funding it all ourselves beforehand. And, you know, the organization is still in effect. It still works to find out what's happened to the missing inaction. Right. And so, you know, it's done a lot of great deal good. I know in your effort to address the issue, there's been a lot of people you talk to across the country, internationally, internationally also. Right, right. Also, the POW flag, you have a hand in that also, don't you? Well, I had a hand in it. I will never, ever take credit for the flag. I did not think about a flag. But when we established the National League of Families, you know, we had a lawyer, a wonderful man, Charlie Havens that helped us. Hey, we were not, you know, wives, women that knew much about the legal aspects of it, but he helped us set up a nonprofit organization. And I came up with the emblem that was just the letterhead of our, but I never dreamed of where the flag was going to go. Somebody else came up with that. Yeah, it was really long. The details were about that. I did a phenomenal job in y'all. Well. But, Jim, I'd like to make all you Jim. Absolutely. But one other thing she should mention is the bracelet. Yeah. Oh, that's another thing else. Okay. We can go there whenever you want. But you were actually a pilot also, shot down. Okay. Could you tell us a little bit about your experiences, what you went through as a POW, or what would you like to touch on? Well, being a POW was not very nice. It wasn't fun. I was shot down on the 22nd of December, 67, and came out on the 14th of March of 73. I spent a little time there, but, you know, most people asked me, how did you get through it? And God, country, and my fellow prisoners, the ones that got me through it. And all I'm contributing, and I'm a very, very lucky man, I got back, well, all that made the 14th of March, 73 occur, got on that airplane and flew out there, which we weren't really sure if it was going to go or not. Everybody said, oh, they could shoot it down still on it. I never will forget when the pilot came up and said, okay, and you guys up front, y'all, look out the window. And there were Navy F-4s on our wing. And that's when it still brings cheer to my eyes, because that's when it's like, oh, boy, we're going home. I know you mentioned God, country, and a lot of things that keep you going focused. But is there anything really that hits home that helped you to keep your sanity in that type of situation? Was there any relief? Was any doubts or anything? Well, oh, sure, you're going to have doubts. I mean, good grief. One time I was going to a quiz, which was an interrogation, and you knew what was going to happen there. They'd ask you a bunch of questions and beat you up, but that was their form of punishment. And guards had me standing, leaning up against the wall, with my arms up against the wall before I went. And of course, you get to start hurting doing that. After a while, you stand there 15, 20 minutes, when things start saying, you know, we'd like to move. Well, he was standing outside the door and watching me. And if I moved, he came in and assured me that I shouldn't move anymore. And I started saying I was in a room with two other guys, which were huge helps me. In fact, one of them is dead now. But the other one is like my brother, who we're closer than brothers. Every time you live with a person for 24, 7, and for 3 or 4 years, and a little bit of room smaller than this room by a bunch, you get to know them pretty well. Better than your wife, as a matter of fact. And Ed Estes and I are still friends and still talk, once a month, once every couple of months. But I was leaning against that wall and I started saying the Lord's Prayer. And I got to the phrase, we'll be done on earth as it is in heaven. I said, wait a minute, did you see what you just said? And it just kind of showered over me that, wait a minute, he's with me here. And I'm going to make this. And if that was, that one probably helped me. Well, it helped me, they all helped me. But that was a real saving. Right. Okay. We're going to have to take a short break. We'll come back, we'll continue the conversation. And also I wanted to bring Mr. Rondo into the conversation. Sure. Again, Mexico says something a lot more that needs to be talked about anyhow. But we're going to take a short break and stay tuned to Hawaii Uniform and you're on thinktechhawaii.com. Aloha, I'm Richard Concepcion, the host of Hispanic Hawaii. You can watch my show every other Tuesday at 2 p.m. We will bring you entertainment, educational, and also we tell you what is happening right here within our community. ThinkTech Hawaii, Aloha. Hi, I'm Ethan Allen, host on thinktech Hawaii of Pacific Partnerships in Education. Every other Tuesday afternoon at 3 p.m., I hope you'll join us as we explore the value, the accomplishments, and the challenges of education here in the Pacific Islands. Aloha, my name is Mark Shklav. I am the host of thinktech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea. Law Across the Sea comes on every other Monday at 11 a.m. Please join us. I like to bring in guests that talk about all types of things that come across the sea to Hawaii, not just law, love, people, ideas, history. Please join us for Law Across the Sea. Aloha. Okay, you're back with Hawaii in uniform. And again, I'm Calvin. I think that's what they call me. Some other things. But again, this is a very important topic we're talking about today. I want to thank both you for coming in and sharing your, you know, sharing anyhow. Because I think there's not, even with all the stories that came out in the past, you know, when you hear firsthand with individuals who have been instrumental in either surviving the situation or helping to remind others, you know, to, or helping other people, others. You know, that's really important anyhow. But we're going to continue. But right now I want to introduce to the program Mr. Ron Oontz. And Ron, are you there? I'm right here. Thank you. I'll tell you, could you tell the audience a little bit about yourself? And we'll continue. My actual professional background is as a theoretical physicist and then I became a software developer. But I've also been very interested in public policy issues. So I've done a great deal of writing on some of those subjects. And I've been publisher of a number of organizations over the last 10 years. Yeah. One of the organizations you were with was the American Conservative. Exactly. Exactly. Right. All right then. Okay. You know, of course, like I said, right now this is an issue that's very touchy to a lot of people, you know. But Ron, I know that in the past, you and then several other noted authors or editors have touched the subject of POWs and the possibility there may have been some that were left behind. I would hate, well, as they say, left behind. Could you tell us a little bit about your research and what you've uncovered so far from the facts? Absolutely. You've got to understand. I was actually just a child during the Vietnam War, so I didn't really have any memory of the conflict. And then during the 80s and during the 90s, when I sometimes saw media coverage on the issue of POW, MIAs still in Vietnam, the media seemed to indicate that it was just nonsense, that it was just sort of a hoax or something like that. And, you know, I pretty much believed what I read in the media for all those years. And, you know, it just seemed to me that it was just totally impossible that anything like that could have happened. And that went on for decades. I never really paid much attention to it. And gradually the issue died away. Then about seven or eight years ago, I was utterly astonished at coming across on the Internet a long, long expose providing some very strong evidence that all of it had been entirely true and that hundreds and hundreds of American POWs had been left behind and the government and the media had covered it up all those years. Now, when I saw something like that, I thought it was crazy. I mean, how could anything like that be true? And then I noticed that the author of the piece was a man named Sidney Schoenberg, one of the most highly regarded journalists in the United States. It was his book that became that movie, The Killing Fields, that won Oscars, you know, one of the classic Vietnam War movies. And he was one of the top editors of the New York Times. I mean, somebody with an absolutely impeccable journalist of grepidation. So I ended up getting in touch with him, discussed the whole situation with him on the phone, you know, discussed his evidence, read through his article very carefully, did a lot of other research on the thing. And I honestly think he's entirely true. I've read through a number of other books. I've talked with a number of people. After I wrote some of the articles highlighting his findings, I was contacted independently by some fairly prominent people who served in American intelligence during the Vietnam War at a fairly high level. And they said yes. They felt it was entirely true and the government had covered up all those years. Now, from my point of view, you know, I've always been a little bit skeptical of the American media, but I found that to be utterly astonishing that the government and the media covered up the fact that hundreds of POWs were left behind for all of those years. And you know, in a sense, the government was embarrassed by the fact that they couldn't get the POWs back. This meant being something that politicians hate, they just covered it up and pretended it never happened. And, you know, I mean, the way I've described it is all that time when I was watching, for example, the original Rambo movie about Vietnam POWs held in a prison camp, very likely the time-backed movies around the United States, there were still hundreds of American POWs being held in Vietnam exactly as described in that movie. And it's not just astonishing. And, you know, since then, to be honest, I've looked into a lot of other political matters, and I've become more and more shocked at how totally dishonest the American media and the American government is about all sorts of other issues. And, but I mean, the fact that something of that magnitude, I mean, the way I've described it is the story of the century was covered up for all those years that nobody was willing to publish Sidney Schoenberg's articles just astonishingly. There you go. Ron, I know, again, like I said, with different times to trade, we really can't get into a lot of different things, but I know that there were hearings that were held by the Senate or the Congress or whatever. But, Jim, or Carol, do you have anything you want to comment on that or anything to add that you agree or disagree with? Yes. Oh, please. Okay. Okay, number one, I will say that as an MI wife for many years and who followed the media closely, who was dealing with the Department of Defense at the time, and there were many charlatans out there. Bo Gritz is one name that comes to mind. And what was their purpose? To get money from the families. Okay. One question I want to ask, do you don't see any validity at all as far as some of the reports that came out, some of the things that Ron had mentioned or in the hearings that were held during the 90s about this? You know, I go back to the people I trust and I trust a particular person, Johnny Webb, who's with the organization in DOD and takes care of the MI families who are so very dedicated. We know him well. If there was any question, I know he would tell us. Jim, anything else? Well, you've got to remember, I was in prison the whole time. One of the things we did while we were there, and I was up north, I was captured up north and put in prison the same day I was shot down. So I didn't have a chance to meet any of the guys who were brought there from outside. One of the things we did was memorize names because we said, hey, you know, if we get released early for some reason, we want to go back and have as many names as we can. That was no names that I remember. That you remember they did come back. They all came back as far as I know. Ron, I know that the course president and everybody else says we need to bring this to a closure or whatever, but is there anything that you still, is there anything else out there? Like I said, that's really happening right now that we'll bring a closure or fully address this way to satisfactory to the members of the POW families. There's still maybe a little bit skeptical about some of the information that came out or has been presented to them. Well, obviously it happened a long time ago, but if the government released the official files that have been covered up all those years, I think we'd get to the truth of the matter. I mean, the truth is it happened years ago. I can't believe that there are any POWs left there after all these years, but on the other hand, I think we should become very cautious about believing anything else the government says. If they could lie about something like that for so many years, if the media could help them cover it up, I've just become very, very cautious about believing government statements on other matters. Yeah. Well, the one thing that gets to me as a veteran and a former service member, to me, the big thing would be future generations of military personnel who join, you know, and you'd like to say to the assurance that they will be, if they are captured or have been depositioned, that they will be brought back. Everything would be done, you know. I think that's the main thing that I see as far as, you know, you can't change the past. And again, if there are certain people that need to be held accountable, I'm all for it. I mean, you know, you can't, you know, bring a lot of people back, but certain systemic problems that have created, created whatever this situation is, needs to be corrected so it doesn't happen in the future. You know, so that's what I see. I know that we're getting down to the wire, so Ron, do you have anything we'd like to get out there? I'm sorry we don't have more time to really get more into it, but how would they be able to contact you or to get more information to follow up, you know, to their satisfaction, viewers? Well, I've written a lot of articles, and we actually have, there's this web scene I run now called the unsreview, uns.com, which publishes a wide variety of different articles that issues many times that the media refuses to cover. And I'm not necessarily saying I accept or believe all the articles we publish, but when you've discovered enough things that the government covers up, you become very cautious of believing the government on other matters. Yeah, I know it's kind of hard sometimes to think is, you know, maybe citizens have to do due diligence anyhow. Again, we're getting out to the wire, so Jim, Carol, anything final you'd like to say? Well, I just appreciate you having us on, and we appreciate all the people out there, especially I think because this is a celebration as far as the Vietnam veteran, and both of us have seen the other side of it and how the country has, you know, come a long ways as far as appreciation of the veterans. I think the one thing of Ron and, you know, I guess I hope we all agree on this one, you know, even when you ask questions about what's going on, you know, you may not totally agree with what's happening, but again, the citizens, we have to do due diligence and find out and hold people's feet to the fire as far as not only with the media or elected officials, everybody, you know, needs to be, to make this thing really work, you know, so again, it is a touchy situation. Ron, I know that you worked hard on what you were doing. Again, we'll have a link up there or if there's a, do you have a phone number that they could reach out? Oh, not really. Oh, look. I primarily software developer who sort of helps with publishing a little bit. Yeah, okay. All right. Anyhow, let's do a follow-up on this anyhow, because I think it is something very important to look into, I mean, you know, just for clarification anyhow. But Jim, Carol, let's say again, thank you for what you do. Thank you for your service. Ron, again, thank you for what you do. I want to thank the viewers out there for doing what they do. Hopefully staying tuned to the program, but also finding what's going on. Stay on top of things. Do your homework. And that's the only way that we're really going to make it a society and keep what we believe in as the United States of America going. So on that note, thank you. God bless and until that time.