 One of the things that we're really pleased about about the book is the title Eating Tomorrow and the double meaning captures the real essence of what I was trying to communicate Which is that humanity does indeed face Continuing challenge to ensure that everyone can eat today and climate change poses makes that challenge all the more daunting About making sure everyone can eat tomorrow But the way we're producing our food is Unchemical intensive industrial scale farms is quite literally Devouring the natural resources the seeds the land the soil the climate The water on which future food production depends By continuing and now even expanding such unsustainable production methods. We are eating our collective tomorrows And the powers that be far from shifting away from that kind of a damaging farming model are instead promoting ever more industrial scale agriculture I wrote this book because with 30 years in this field I wanted to understand why policy makers were ignoring all the low-cost solutions all around them Offered by small their own small-scale farmers and instead they're pushing expensive policies that not only fail to help the hungry eat today They are undermining the capacity of all of us to eat tomorrow Hello and welcome. I'm Lynn freeze producer of global political economy or Gbe news docs today's guest is Tim wise in That opening clip Tim was speaking at the 2019 launch of his book eating tomorrow a book about Agribusiness family farmers and the battle for the future of food today We'll be looking into the battle for the future of food in Africa We'll do this through the lens of two very different alliances One the alliance for food sovereignty in Africa and the other the alliance for a green revolution in Africa Their respective acronyms being Afsa and Agra Tim wise is senior research fellow at Tufts universities global development and environment Institute and senior advisor on the future of food from the US to India and Mexico to Mozambique at the Institute for Agriculture and Trade Policy. Welcome Tim Thanks so much, Lynn in early September the Alliance for Food sovereignty in Africa released an open letter stating the green revolution had failed Africa and In the statement Afsa demanded that donors of the Alliance for the Green Revolution in Africa stop funding the Agra Initiative there was a press briefing held at the time So Tim start by giving us some background on all that and who the Alliance for food sovereignty in Africa represent and Something about the discovery process of your own research findings on the Alliance for Green Revolution in Africa When I was researching my book a lot of the work I did was in southern Africa and I heard a lot about the Alliance for Green Revolution in Africa and its program to promote the use of chemical fertilizers and commercial seeds to replace seeds and practices that farmers typically use in those regions and But you never came across the actual organization Agra what you saw was Lots of promotional activity and direct subsidies by African governments to sell those Those inputs And you heard a lot about how it wasn't working after I'd heard about that really for the three four years I was doing the research for the book I finally got the occasion to do a deeper study on whether the Alliance for Green Revolution in Africa was having the kind of impact that it Claimed it was going to have really Promising a productivity revolution for Africa small-scale farmers. They promised in their original goals to double Productivity and yields and incomes for 30 million small-scale farmers. That's a lot of farmers While cutting food insecurity in half And so I just looked at the 13 countries that Agra focuses on or has focused on for most of its 15-year history and Looked at whether there was any sign of a productivity revolution income improvements or food security Improving and there really isn't so it's striking that What I had observed more anecdotally out in the field doing my research for the book Was so dramatically confirmed in this Research on what wears the green revolution and the farmers I talked to in southern Africa weren't wrong when they said it's not working It's not working so the Alliance for Food Sovereignty in Africa is The largest civil society organization in Africa those farmers I was talking to in southern Africa are members of organizations peasant unions networks that are often members of The Alliance they claim among their members an affiliate over 200 million members across the continent in 50 countries, so this is a Large powerful grassroots organization representing food producers largely Not just farmers, but fisher folk pastoralists and others and So when they take a stand and say directly challenge The Alliance for Green Revolution in Africa and donors to it to stop funding it It's it's a big deal And it really deserves attention because it's a bold step for an organization to come out that publicly and say to aid organizations. Hey, your aid is Not what we want or need we want something else and the something else they want is support for agroecology and other low-input smallholder friendly climate resilient Programs that actually support small holders doing what they do, but doing it better In the words of of asset that press briefing they said after nearly 15 years spending more than one billion dollars to promote the use of commercial seeds chemical fertilizers and pesticides in 13 African countries and an additional one billion dollars per year of African government subsidies for seeds and fertilizers Agra has failed to provide evidence that yields incomes or food security Increased significantly and sustainably for smallholder households across its target countries So the message from Asa to Agra's donors is stop funding the green revolution technology and shift your support To agroecology and approach that Africa's small-hold food producers say works and they want so in short What's meant by agroecology? Agroecology is defined in in many different ways, but I think the simplest Way to understand it is as an approach to growing food That tries to work in harmony with natural systems rather than trying to overcome them By using say pesticides to control pests fertilizer to to create soil fertility for the crops Etc, but it's also a social movement at this point And I think a lot of people like those at at the Alliance for Food sovereignty in Africa Really connected to food sovereignty in the sense that it's really about empowering local food producers to To take the lead in and determining how agriculture and food moves forward The general coordinator of the Alliance for Food sovereignty in Africa put it this way He wrote we welcome investment in agriculture in our continent But we seek it in a form that's democratic and responsive to the people at the heart of agriculture Not as a top-down force that ends up concentrating power and profit into the hands of a small number of multinational Corporations the AFSA press briefing at the time of the open letter made it clear that well before Releasing that open letter in September AFSA had sent letters to major agra donors asking them to provide some evidence that the agra initiative Was living up to its promises in other words meeting its goals But ASSA reported they received few and no credible responses despite the fact that The ASSA network represents more than as you say 200 million food producers across Africa These leaders are deeply insulted and they should be I mean it's not just the Alliance for Food sovereignty in Africa One of its member organizations the Southern Africa faith communities environment Institute an organization started by faith leaders in Southern Africa They wrote an open letter to the Gates Foundation Gates Foundation is far and away the largest donor to agra I mean really it is the Gates Foundation's organization They've contributed two-thirds of a billion dollars over 15 years of agra's billion dollar budget so far so it's really their organization and they Never even responded to this letter sent sent by faith communities a letter signed by 500 faith leaders across the region I mean it I don't know the lack of accountability is really astonishing from these organizations AFSA the Alliance for Food sovereignty in Africa wrote its letter in June sent it to all of the major donors to to agra and Got very few replies absolutely no evidence and no response at all from the Gates Foundation the Rockefeller Foundation from USAID Our major sponsor UK aid They got the they got very little and nothing in terms of evidence. It's a little bit surprising to me that Having published my research now more than a year ago that None of the donors and and agra itself have to come up with anything Credible that refutes or challenges our findings that it's not working. I mean we found Such failure we found that Yields have barely have increased hardly faster than they had before agra and the green revolution push came along And at very low rates. We found the poverty was still endemic particularly in rural areas and the the most remarkable And to me surprising finding honestly was that the number of undernourished people the UN's measure of severe hunger had gone up 30% rather than being cut in half in agra's 13 countries So the published research that you cited is the 2020 Tufts University Paper titled Failing Africa's Farmers and impact assessment of the Alliance for a Green Revolution in Africa and for this impact assessment We should note you used National-level data to assess progress and productivity poverty reduction and food security and agra's 13 Target countries because despite spending billions there was little publicly available Data documenting the impact of the agra initiative was having either from agra the Gates Foundation or donor governments and agra itself declined to provide data from its own Internal monitoring and evaluation However in 2020 as agra reached its own self-imposed deadline and meeting its own stated goals Your study revealed that agra had failed on its own terms and you've confirmed those findings in subsequent updates So fast forward to October 2021 You find it surprising that agra and agra donors have failed to provide credible evidence to refute the findings of your research Publications and a related report false promises So as an alarming example of all this you were saying that far from meeting Its own goal to cut hunger in half by 2020 Undernourished people in Africa, which is the UN measure of extreme hunger has gone up in agra's 13 countries and the most recent UN report is even more alarming about this being just the wrong the wrong path for Africa to follow because it showed that The number of undernourished people in sub-saharan Africa as a whole since 2006 when agra was founded has increased by 50% Not decreased by 50% so taking Africa in the absolute wrong direction and No answer on providing any evidence that they're doing that anything they're doing is really working and and then like you said no accountability No interest in engaging and Responding to these major community organizations and networks in Africa the real The stakeholders that matter if you're talking about increase in smallholder productivity and incomes and food security No no response to them Among other things the report a sting in the agra tale Makes the connection between africas being taken in the wrong direction and agra's influence on laws in favor of agra business in africa And that report details how agra promotes and creates through financial and other Contributions and institutional framework in many of its focused countries that makes its own green revolution approach Binding through laws and framework conditions. In other words agra's role in the corporate capture of governance of food and agriculture in africa The upshot being the exclusion of voices of as you say the real stakeholders at the heart of Agriculture in africa, which is what afsa obviously argues And what the uan food system summit has shed light on is agra's influence and As it's put in the title of a report on this topic cementing corporate capture of food governance Through decision-making in the world international public institutions and the corporate capture of the uan food system summit Being a case in point and a recent report titled exposing corporate capture of the uan food system summit through multi-stakeholderism Gets into details and among other things the report shows how agra Fits into the interconnections between multi-stakeholder institutions and corporate actors and corporate influence in the leadership of the uan food system summit So given all that comment more broadly on the battle for the future food in africa and specifically Give us more context on the statement by the alliance for food sovereignty in africa That they quote wanted to state clearly and categorically that the alliance for a green revolution in africa Does not speak for africans The alliance for a green revolution in africa is based in nerobi every year. They hold an annual green revolution forum it's called it's really a place where agribusiness and governments and foundations come together and Um, kind of rally the troops and make deals for investment and and the rest This year they they um were I thought pretty brazen and insensitive in announcing that their green revolution forum would offer a what they called a singular african coordinated african voice Going into the food system summit as if they spoke for africa and african food producers and Um, that just incensed the leaders of the alliance for food sovereignty in africa. It was like you do not speak for africans We speak for african food producers and you won't even answer our letters The battle for the future of food is is exactly a battle between Um, I call it agribusiness and family farmers, but it's much broader than that, right? It's the It's the battle between Those who are advocating a Unequitable just and Climate resilient and sustainable food system that produces healthy food and those who are advocating really business as usual in spite of their claims that Business as usual is no longer an option. That's exactly what they're offering At this un food system summit for example The un special repertoire and the rate to food michael foch fochry has participated in that process With a very critical eye and came out with a report as the un special repertoire saying this The problem with the way this has been conducted and the way it's being carried out and with the conclusions that it's Coming to with these a bunch of so-called game-changing solutions to our food system problems Is that corporate interests have dominated the agenda? it's marginalized the actual food producers from those discussions and The outcome is More strategies that are threatening to have us eating our collective tomorrows by undermining the resource space We need to grow food in the future. Not just Not just in africa in the u.s Not just in the u.s in in india and and the The food system summit was convened on the premise And the recognition that we were not on track to meet the goal by 2030 of eliminating extreme hunger We absolutely are not in fact removing in the opposite direction and unfortunately the food system summit has jettisoned all of the the most promising approaches that could actually And business as usual and give us food systems that begin to restore the earth provide healthy and nutritious food to everyone on the planet and to Achieve the the promise of the right to food That is enshrined and endorsed by so many countries around the world Let's talk now about another common denominator in what's happening with food systems, whether How the agri-initiative is taking african the wrong direction or the UN food system summit is taking the world in the opposite direction of what you say could actually begin to restore the earth And provide healthy and nutritious food for everyone on the planet I'm thinking here about disinformation campaigns that demonize Approaches like those jettisoned from the the UN food system summit that you're talking about for instance an op-ed by renowned economist yomo ks titled beware uan food systems summit trojan horse Draws attention to what he calls deliberate deceptions to undermine support for agro ecology And the gates funded cornell alliance for science for instance has been widely criticized for disseminating this kind of Disinformation in a scientific american op-ed titled bill gate should stop telling africans What kind of agriculture africans need afsa gives details how this applies to africa Where support for the agro ecology paradigm? They support is being undermined among africa's scientists and political leaders by this kind of disinformation campaign So comment on the demonization of agro ecology It's a it's a concerted campaign And in part that's the result of the movement for agro ecology gaining traction in international institutions like the UN's food and agriculture organization They adopted a scaling up agro ecology program to Support governments that want to expand ecological agriculture the UN's high level panel of experts it's called on food systems is a Very well respected group that does these in-depth studies They just recently did one that resulted in a resolution by the committee on world food security to To promote agro ecology is one of the important solutions to the climate crisis and to hunger So it's gaining traction and The powers that be are alarmed And they've fought back with Just crazy disinformation campaigns Demonizing and portraying african farmers as as backwards for saving their seeds and being wedded to these I mean what they call traditional technologies that the What what most offended me as a researcher who's worked with a lot of a lot of different organizations that promote agro ecology is that They are wildly innovative. I mean this is the the idea that this is somehow backward is just It's just ludicrous they I mean, they're basically taking Scientists out into the field and saying How talking to farmers and saying what do you need? How can you? Improve your soil fertility so you get higher yields. Um, and how can we help you? The innovations are not minor in that process and in fact farmers themselves are some of the most innovative Because they are the ones on the front lines of climate change. They see what seeds Perform well under drought conditions. They see how Growing a multiplicity of crops in the same fields Improves soil fertility and reduces their climate risk because If a drought comes through and wipes out the corn crop They have other crops that they can rely on for food and That's where this the green revolution model is so is so limited And but but to have these proponents of what I argue is actually really old technology seeds and fertilizers That strategy comes from the green revolution of the 60s and 70s in the last middle of the last century We are 50 years on from that And they're still selling the same old technologies How can you demonize people who are truly innovating with ecological agriculture? With this old technology claiming that it's an innovation that is somehow fresh new and and going to solve today's problems It just it's just not So then the way you see it is that these disinformation campaigns partly reflect agribusiness alarm A situation where governments instead of depending on corporate solutions to combat hunger and climate change Are increasingly seeking solutions in other approaches and in the case of scaling up agroecology Doing so with the support of programs at the world's public Institutions of food governance in this case the un roam based agency the food and agriculture organization or FAO So it's not so hard to understand how an agenda and narrative coming out of the un That agroecology is a win win win for people planet and livelihoods What alarm agribusiness and its allied interests and how as you say Corporate interests are fighting back This then serves to protect markets for corporate innovation from old technology like the green revolution technology We've been talking about in the context of africa to new technology like the kind championed as techno fixes at the un food system summit Talk more about africa as a market for corporate innovation Most of us think of green revolution technology as genetically modified crops So tell us more about the kind of green revolution technology that's being advocated by agra in africa Agra itself is very careful not to Publicly state that it is advocating for Genetically modified crops because they are just so widely rejected on the continent of africa What it's doing though and what the gates foundation is doing and others USAID Are are advocating for changes in in seed laws and intellectual property laws that Would open the door for genetically modified crops to start to be used in africa They That involves they've made some incursions in that regard in nigeria and in gana Overwhelmingly the Countries do not allow Genetically modified crops particularly food crops to be grown cotton is often a an exception to that Because it's not directly consumed But but it's important to recognize that the the road to genetically modified crops is Has a has a number of steps along the way Um First What you do if you're trying to open that door is you get farmers to stop using the seeds that they save year to year And you don't need gmo's to do that What what the green revolution? Cells is what are called hybrid seeds? Seeds that have been bred and they're bred in such a way That they supposedly will give you high yields Usually only if you have all of these inputs that mostly farmers can't afford Irrigation fertilizer pesticides And the like Hybrid seeds can't be saved from year to year because they don't hold their what it's called Vigor their productivity It will degenerate if they're saved from year to year So the first step you do when I saw this in Malawi is you try and get farmers To give up their local seeds you tell them they're unproductive. Some of them are not very productive That they've been overused but they're tired as people would say And you should start using our commercial seeds and once you're using them You can't save them and so you need to buy them every year and you've opened up a market for seed suppliers Monsanto in in now Bayer in Malawi Sells 50 of the hybrid maize seeds In that market and so that those are big markets for these seed companies They don't need to be selling GMOs to make money and that path of getting farmers dependent on Commercial seeds that are these hybrids you can't save year to year so they have to buy them every year And the fertilizers to make them grow Creates a dependency that very much serves the interests of these agribusiness corporations So the experience we've seen in green revolution from the 60s and 70s over the decades and in other parts of the world is that As farmers get put on the path of dependency of these corporate inputs. They can run into Serious debt problems comment on that risk Sure. That's a that's a huge risk it's the probably the headline risk that people have heard about from india because of the high levels of farmers suicides farmers suicides because Crops fail and Farmers have gone into debt to buy the seeds and fertilizers and Rather either out of the humiliation of being in debt or the The desire to free their families from the debt that the farmer himself has incurred they take their own lives That's We're not at that level in in africa. I mean the levels of dependency are not as high on these on these inputs like I said, this has been a this is a relatively early stage in In the attempt to bring african agriculture under agribusinesses control um, the vast majority Of african food is still produced by africans using seeds. They've saved from year to year from their crops So that's the market that that bear monsanto and others want to get In wrapping up talk now about Agroecology is the kind of approach members of the alliance for food sovereignty in africa Want agro donors to switch funding to there's plenty of compelling and inspiring stories in support of that on afsa's website, which has a whole section of agroecology case studies So your work takes you all over the world, but staying with today's focus on africa. Tell us something about what you are seeing there Oh, sure. I mean, it's very inspiring stuff. That's what keeps me in this work is getting to be I mean, it's been it's been Awful and under coven not to really be able to travel and do that kind of international research and reporting that I that I that I was able to do for the book And in my career generally To be out in the field and see what's going on that I mean, it really is a growing movement You have literally millions of acres in west africa in a program of Restoration of degraded dry lands through the regeneration of tree farming Very simple, but labor intensive process of Of getting trees that have that have been cut down To grow again They provide shade they change literally change the climate in that region and allow Food to once again be grown on those lands wildly successful And literally on millions of of acres of land you have others where Again, I again, I think it's millions of acres of farmers doing what's called either intercropping or Or cover cropping. It's basically farmers who've grown dependent on monocultures of maize of corn, which is what's generally promoted being Coached into Choosing good good leguminous crops like beans to intercrop in the in in the rows of of corn very much taking from What we know in the united states as the old three sisters model of The ancient maya right you grow Beans squash and corn in the same fields and you're both producing a nutritious diet in combination and a way to sustain the soil in combination That's all been destroyed by industrial agriculture. That's being broken apart Each crop on its own field and Mining the nutrients from the soil and in their own ways in africa they there are huge projects to Get To get farmers growing these leguminous crops with their maize crops and they've found these guys have more than doubled yields for for maize and other food crops in the process without resorting to dependence on on chemical inputs It's really not hard to find success stories out there but If you have your blinders on like the gates foundation does and others and you are Wetted to the Dogmatic notion that the only way you can get progress and solve problems is with technologies Then you're going to miss the you're missing that train Tim wise. Thank you. Thank you so much, Lynn And from Geneva, Switzerland. Thank you for joining us for this segment of gpe news docs for related stories I'll put links in the transcript to conversations with guest harris glackman nick buxton and pat mooney respectively the conversation with global governance expert harris glackman Unpacks the multi stakeholder model championed by Multistakeholder institutions like the world economic forum as the mechanism and pathway for the corporate takeover of global governance A process that's being normalized at the united nations under a strategic partnership agreement Signed by the un secretary general with the world economic forum The conversation with transnational institutes nick buxton Was on how people's movements all over the world are mapping the corporate takeover of global governance in sector after sector From agriculture to technology what buxton calls a silent global coup d'etat The conversation with etc group and ipass foods pat mooney Goes into the corporate takeover of global governance of food and agriculture And reaches into the corporate capture of the un food system summit that was part of today's conversation with tim wise