 Hello, everyone. It is my pleasure to welcome you to this webinar on tech and transparency, democratizing data and empowering communities with cutting-edge technologies, which is co-hosted by ESRI, the Land Portal Foundation, and New America. It is my pleasure to moderate this discussion. I am Yulia Panfil, Senior Fellow and Director of New America's Future of Property Rights Program. We all know that corruption and lack of transparency are endemic in the land sector. This can range from petty corruption in land transactions to major political corruption in land management and such as the illegal sale of land by public officials. Known emerging technologies have the potential to greatly increase transparency by simplifying the process of mapping, recording, and defending property rights at scale. While technology alone is insufficient to solve pernicious property rights challenges, it can be harnessed by policymakers, lawyers, surveyors, families, and communities to help stem corruption. This webinar will introduce six new technologies that are described in a tool that's produced by New America and ESRI. This series of prop rights tech primers is aimed at explaining in simple, accessible terms, six new and emerging technologies in the land tenure and property rights space. It is my pleasure to welcome you here today and we look forward to a dynamic discussion. Allow me to introduce our panelists. We have Tim Fela, Global Business Development Manager for Land Administration at ESRI, Shreya Deb, Director of Investments at Omidyar Network India, Mustafa Issa, Field Program Director for the USAID Feed the Future Tanzania Land Tenure Assistance Program implemented by DAI Tanzania, and Milton Saunders, Manager of Mapping Services for the Jamaican Land Agency, and Renee Latour, Senior GIS Specialist for the Jamaican Land Agency. I will first begin with a brief presentation of the primers on each of these emerging technologies and this will be followed by a dialogue among our panelists. After the first hour, we will open the discussion and give room to the participants to add questions. Please use the question feature to pose questions to the panelists. We will ensure that your questions are addressed in turn during the open discussion that follows. The Future Property Rights Program at New America works to answer the following question. Why is it that despite advances in technology and human development, a quarter of the world's population still has insecure property rights? Through our research, journalism, and convening, we bring together technologists and policymakers to shrink the gap between these two constituencies. We act as a translator between the world of drones and artificial intelligence and the world of politics, laws, and institutions. At the same time, our program aims to preempt emerging property rights challenges by thinking critically about the paradigms that govern new spaces, from cyberspace to outer space. Next slide, please. As part of this effort, our program in collaboration with Esri has just released a series of prop rights tech primers aimed at explaining in simple accessible terms, six new and emerging technologies in the land and property rights space. The motivation for these primers really came from my own search for simple digestible literature on the topic of land technology. I couldn't find anything. Tech is advancing rapidly and the literature is all quite long, dense, and technical. So it's difficult for policymakers, funders, and others to gain even a basic understanding of these technologies without investing massive amounts of time. We decided to team up with Esri to produce a series of short 101-style snapshots of six technologies, their strengths, limitations, areas of applicability, and existing use cases. The photo on the right of your screen is a snapshot of one of these primers. I'll introduce them very briefly, but you can peruse them in more detail on our website. So our first technology is the much discussed blockchain. For being a very poorly understood technology, blockchain has received a lot of hype and then a lot of hate. In reality, the technology is somewhere in the middle. Blockchain at its most basic is a database technology. It's a type of distributed ledger that can concurrently be accessed and updated by multiple users. So a blockchain creates a decentralized network of records that's virtually impossible to hack, cheat, or manipulate. Given that land is notorious for corruption, that's a great thing. So incorporating blockchain technology into a land registry's architecture can help stem corruption and lack of trust and can also help data be more secure and less vulnerable to cyber attacks. But blockchain is not a cure-all. Various prerequisites, including a functional identity system, accurate and digitized records, and a trained professional community are necessary for successful adoption. Drones are a better understood technology. Essentially a drone is a flying machine that's remotely controlled through a ground control station. Drones provide sophisticated platforms for aerial photography and mapping. That means they save on the time, cost, and complexity of conventional land surveying and can access remote and dangerous terrain. But country regulations and legal frameworks have sometimes kept drones from reaching their full potential, and while it's improving, battery life remains an issue. Next slide, please. Our next technology is dual-band GPS, which is already in use in professional surveying equipment, but is now becoming available in smartphones and other mainstream devices. So most GPS-enabled consumer devices like your smartphone or a tablet or a car navigation system use single-frequency receivers, which are only accurate to about five meters. By contrast, dual-band receivers use two different frequencies of signals to calculate positions, so they're much more accurate. So mobile phones are starting to carry dual-band GPS functionality, which means mobile mapping using these phones is significantly more accurate. You can now buy a phone for about $400 that will map with centimeter accuracy. The drawback is that this technology is not fully mainstream yet, though this is quickly becoming more common. Our next technology, machine learning, is perhaps one that I'm the most excited about. Machine learning is a type of artificial intelligence that allows computers to learn and improve from past experience. The way it works is that a computer is trained on a sample dataset, and then it can apply the insights it learns and make intelligent predictions and decisions about much larger sets of data. So for example, a computer trained on a small number of mapped parcels can then predict parcel boundaries in an unmapped area, relying on patterns that it picked up from the training data. As another example, a program trained on home valuation data from a small sample where values are known can then predict home values across a much larger unknown sample. The benefit of machine learning is scale. By automating multiple components of the property mapping, documentation, and transaction process, machine learning can vastly increase the scale and speed of property rights delivery, resource management, and land use planning. But there are drawbacks. Accuracy is not 100%, and it's possible to introduce errors into the algorithm, which are then perpetuated by the computer. Our next technology is a type of digital identity called self-sovereign identity. Self-sovereign ID systems allow people to store their identifying documents called credentials in a secure digital wallet that preserves their privacy and is under their control. Crucially, these credentials are issued by third parties and they come with a cryptographic signature that makes them virtually impossible to fake but easy to verify without having to contact the issuer. The most basic application of self-sovereign identity for property rights is to provide people with digital identities that they can use to interact with land administration services. However, self-sovereign identity can also help people build evidence of their property holding in the absence of formal documentation. For example, by using credentials issued by telecoms, banks, social media providers, neighbors, and others, people can prove their location history, their purchases, and other information that can be used to support a property claim. A major benefit of self-sovereign identity is that it's flexible, privacy-preserving, and gives the user control over their own data. The drawback is that it's still very nascent, and its success depends on the development of an ecosystem of credential issuers and acceptors. Our last technology is a 3D cadastre, which is exactly what it sounds like. It's a cadastre that allows us to visualize the built environment in three dimensions. Given rapid, global urbanization, it's easy to see why a 3D cadastre would be useful for visualizing multi-story buildings and even subterranean environments. Using 3D cadastres gives you a more accurate picture of the reality on the ground, including multiple land uses, and can lead to more accurate valuation as well. However, 3D cadastres are still nascent and have not been widely adopted. Land administration staff will have a learning curve in figuring out how to administer a 3D cadastre system. So that was a very quick introduction to these six exciting new technologies. I'd encourage you to explore them in more detail by visiting our website or contacting us. With this quick introduction, let's turn it over to the experts. Let me begin the conversation with Shreya Deb. Shreya, from your experience as a funder looking across multiple investments, how do technologies lead to increased transparency in land governance systems? Let me share some examples. One of the projects that we funded was in a state called Ores Science in India, where we use drones to create cadastral quality maps of slums or informal communities. So drones were used to cover over 200,000 households across the state in a space of less than one year. And imagine the kind of maps that were created. This is very different from the regular cadastral map, which is very technical and looks just like some surface quickly drawing to an ordinary person in the community. Now, when you use a drone and you're creating an overhead image, the entire, and then print it out so that the entire community can see it, they're able to engage with the map. They can actually locate where their houses, where their neighbor's houses, where's the local pond, their common space. They're able to agree to the boundaries of the snump. And it was an extremely involved process with a lot of buy-in from the community. So in a very short span of time, we were able to cover a very large number of households. I can also share a flip side of this, of how too much transparency is not desirable by some people. So there was an experiment that was conducted where our digital ID system, Aadhar, was being linked to land records in one particular district. And it was a pilot. It was meant to be voluntary disclosure by people. Most people in the district actually shared their ID and allowed the linking of their ID to the property systems. But the ones who did not were notably the largest landowners in the district because their fear was that a land administration system, which will actually link property to an individual ID, would actually create too much transparency around the ownership of property. It could actually even raise questions around disproportionate assets. And these owners did not want that. That's fascinating. Thank you, Shreya. Mustafa, as someone who is implementing a large land project, how can technologies lead to increased transparency in land governance systems? Thank you, Uria. In Tanzania, only 7% of the land is a real land. And 28% is a reserved land, which is water bodies, land reserve and forest reserve. And 2% is urban land. So the land covered the largest portion, which is less than 10% is registered today. So that is the areas marked in each with the land title. Some of the main reasons for such small percentage of registered land in the village are the high cost of registration, corruption, poor land administration system, which are not transparent. So from my experience, taking part in implementing the USAID for the future mobile application to secure tenure, which was designing a mobile application code mask in 2015 to 2016, and also working in the USAID Tanzania land tenure assistance program from 2016 to date in implementing and developing innovative technologies for registration of the village land using masks in mapping of land pastels and also involving the design of a web-based system, which is going to track and record the post-registration transaction using the technical register and a social tenure trust. It has been proved that simple cost-effective technologies have increased transparency in land governance system. And also they do the cost of producing the land titles and they have streamlined the process of insurance of the CCR water scale. So USAID LTA has redeveloped the mask and also implemented registration model that is enabled to map over 70,000 land pastels and we have made it to issue over 60,000 land titles in 41 villages. So and we're having, of course, approximately equal land ownership in terms of gender lesion between women and men, which is 49.7%, but 49.5% to 50.5% respectively. So and this is due to the extensive sensation and training on rent rights to residents, village leaders, youth, and marginalized groups, such as pastoralists and women. And most importantly, the participation in the work involved in the land registration process is made for a high level of transparency. So the model is brought the cost down to below $10 against the previous cost, which was very high cost of registration of the village in which it was in order of $100. So using simple technology such as smartphone with a simple app like mask, open source software, and also good procedures has now came the way for a large scale low cost registration of land in Tanzania. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Mustafa. Milton, turning over to you as somebody working at a government land agency, what are your thoughts on how new technologies can lead to increased transparency in land governance? Thank you for your question, Milton. Now, effective land governance ensures equitable access to land and security of container. It can contribute to improvements in social, economic, and environmental conditions. When new governance exists, decision made earlier to the land is much more transparent. But good land governance can result in land registration being simplified, more accessible, and effective with an absence of good governance of land that can be extensive abuse. But different types of technology exist and new ones are emerging, some of which were detailed by Julian in our presentation. These can be introduced to you with this particular need to ensure transparency. With application of technology, more efficiency is brought into the process of capturing land information and all can be provided with access to the same information in an open forum and can therefore make use of it thus ensuring equity in access to land information. With application of technology, also any of those objectivity in identifying gaps in land registration and technology can be used to fill these gaps in a transparent way. It has patterns that interventions such as land phone programs can be more targeted and transparent. And technology also enables more efficient updates to national cadacity, which has been our experience. We are ensuring that there is an accurate reflection of what exists underground to the public. Your question also asked for implications. In terms of implications, when there is a lack of transparency, you can have trust in the land governance system in a country or a process to ensure tenure. There is also potential for equity in land distribution and use, corruption which has been mentioned by some of the panelists in land transaction, conflicts and dispute over ownership. If, however, there is transparency through the application of technology, there can be positive implications, which we must also highlight. There are some of these in terms of legitimate tenure, elimination of fraud, that's in the trust in the systems and processes of the country. And also we can serve as a potential trigger for more investments and by extension economic development within the country. Thank you. Thank you, Milton. Tim, turning to you. As someone working inside of a tech company, how do you see new technologies leading to increased transparency in the land sector? Thank you, Julia. What we're finding is like new technologies are making it possible to more easily share data and to collaborate within organizations across government as well as with citizens who might want more timely access to authoritative land administrative data, content services. And one of the ways in which this is happening is through the advent of web services, which is essentially a dial tone of your data. And this can be accessed through any web client, so it can be your desktop or mobile device as well. And this helps reduce the need to physically move physical files around an organization and to worry about whether the data has to be, whether it's up to date at the end of the day. So now statutory land agencies can use these web services to answer common questions through modern maps and web applications that have been specifically designed or configured to aid public access to tax information, parcel data, property valuation data, and so on. So this not only reduces the staff time required to gather information, but it also improves policymaking, public engagement, and private sector provisioning of services, whether it might be utilities or something else of the same nature. Wonderful. Thank you, Tim. So we've just heard that technology makes land administration more efficient, accessible, and accurate. And this in turn enhances trust and transparency and even increases satisfaction within land administration agencies themselves. We also heard a really interesting example from Shreya about how some parties are more or less reluctant to use land technology to increase transparency because maybe that transparency may not be of benefit to them. So let's move on to our next question. Shreya, we hear about the benefits of technology, but how can it be assured that technologies are not used to turn communities against one another and further marginalize them? So what safeguards in both the public and private sector can be put into place to ensure that these technologies are not employed to further disadvantage vulnerable people? Thank you, Yunia. I may actually have a bit of a contrarian view here, but the way I look at it is technology by itself doesn't disadvantage or marginalize people. Technology has the ability to reduce cost. It can actually reduce the information asymmetry that often exists, that often leads to this imbalance of power. But if people's intentions aren't right, then they can misuse technology. So you need the right set of people who will understand what is the starting position of a community, what are their requirements, articulate what needs to be done. So for example, you need to acknowledge that people are living in remote locations, then internet is likely to be bad, or a database which is storing personal data can be vulnerable and you need to put in the processes around it. So if you go in for an immutable blockchain sort of a database, once you put in a transaction which is inaccurate for fake data, then it becomes really hard to change that in future. So acknowledging the realities, the starting positions and you need to design the process around it. So in fact, I would actually like to hear how can technology by itself actually lead to marginalizing people? Other examples of this would love to actually learn more. Thank you, Shreya, for that provocative response. Let me pose the same question to Mustafa. Mustafa, what safeguards in both the public and private sector can be put in place to ensure that technologies aren't employed to further disadvantage marginalized people? Of course, from our case, the development and designing of the technologies for that is mass and trust if considered existing procedures, regulations, policies in registration, which are guiding land registration in Tanzania. So explicitly, the laws provide protection for the land rights for marginalized groups, that is women, youth, and passers-by. So to safeguard users' interests, during the design of mass and trust, there was a full involvement of the users, that is the government officials, private sector, academia, they did themselves in the other institution involved in the land sector in Tanzania. So in the government are very sensitive of maintaining the integrity of the land data. So during the design, these technologies where we did make sure that land data are compatible with the government land administration database and information now are transferred regularly from the local database to and stored back up to the national level. Thank you, Mustafa. Milton, we'd like to hear from you on this question. How can we make sure that technology allows for responsible use? Okay, yeah. To some extent, I share this with you. The expectation is always for responsible use to the need of technology. So this is the idea. It's not always the case. And as such, there can be a use that is a marginalized community that is probably further affected in an innovative way and emphasis here is on the use of the technology. Because of this, it is necessary to put in the safeguards to mitigate the needs of others. So there are some safeguards I can put in place and I'll try to highlight some. Could be the use of standards, which are enforced in land management systems for workflows. So these can be further supported by which ensures that decisions joined in an arbitrary that is a clear reference system to determine the overall and related transactions completed. The second one that could be contemplated is implementation of automated data reviews to supplement and banning of checks with who's at this. And these then show some amount of verification to transaction and ensure that they are in keeping with standard operating procedures. And another significant one is to ensure that can implement stringent penalties for use of or the negative manipulation of technology. Thank you, Milton. And the audio was a bit spotty. So I just want to repeat a couple of the main points that Milton had made in case others were also having spotty audio. Milton spoke about how the expectation is always for responsible use of technology, but that's not always the case. He spoke about the benefit of using standards, which are enforced in land ministry, land management systems by workflows, as well as automated data reviews and potentially stringent penalties for abuse or negative manipulation of technology. Thank you, Milton. Tim, from your perspective, what safeguards in both the public and private sector can be put into place to ensure that these technologies are not employed to further disadvantage vulnerable people? Yeah, sure. So I think there's no doubt that technologies are being embraced by communities across the world. I think you just look at the rapid adoption of smartphones and mobile banking across the developing world is just a good example. But in the land sector, the adoption of new technologies can similarly offer benefits, but of course, we have to think about certain safeguards being put in place. And some examples are, for instance, when leveraging mobile devices or drones for field data collection of land rights information, perhaps as part of a first registration process. It's important that communities being formed of the objectives of the effort, the process involved and how the data at the end of the day will be used. To the extent possible, it's also great if you can involve the communities in the process of collecting the data itself. I know from an ESRI perspective, we have partnered with a number of organizations, including the Cadasta Foundation, Cadaster International, to develop digital tools and workflows to support participatory capture of land rights information. And then on top of that, I'd also add that I think it's important that once the data is collected, that any changes to that data be tracked through user identities and roles within an organization, that any information that's eventually published at the end of the day be treated carefully and that the proper protections be input in place for particularly personally identifiable information of those whose data is being handled. Wonderful. Thank you, Tim. So we've heard from our panelists that the design process is key to ensuring that new technology advantages vulnerable communities and doesn't put them at risk. Stakeholders have to be involved from the inception of the project. We've also heard about the importance of the use of standards and of differentiating between different types of data, for example, treating personally identifiable information with extreme care. But we've also heard a bit of pushback on the idea that technology in and of itself can be pernicious towards vulnerable communities. And this idea that tech is really a tool and it depends on who's wielding it. So with that, we'll move on to our next question. Shreya, can you share examples based on your experiences of how technologies have benefited marginalized communities? Sure, Julia. Let me start by talking about the Forest Rights Act in India. This is a landmark act which allows indigenous communities to claim title to the land that they're occupying, as long as they can prove that they were farming that land as of 31st December 2005. So in the first few years since this act came into being, people were scrambling all over the place collecting various pieces of paper eviction notices or fine receipts that they had got from the Forest Department just to prove that before 2005, they were actually on that land and occupying that land. So in 2008, there was a judgment passed by the Gujarat High Court which allowed the use of satellite imagery. So if you can take a historical image and show that that plot of land was not really forest, there was no tree cover there, but it was actually inhabited by people. You can show that they were farming that land. That was a good enough proof to show that they were occupying that land. And thanks to this, millions of indigenous people have now been able to actually claim title rights to their forest land. So I think this was a great example of how technology can really empower some very, very vulnerable people. Another example is a company called Meritya that works in Ghana. In Ghana, there are lots of small holder cocoa farmers and nearly 80% of those farms have never ever been mapped and there are no records which exist. And there have been multiple projects funded by many multilateral institutions which haven't made much progress over the years. So Meritya uses a simple handheld device. They are able to train their local field staff to just walk the boundaries, very similar to MAST, walk the boundaries and map these cocoa farms and generate land documents for the cocoa farmers. And within one year, Meritya was able to map close to 2,000 plots. So these are just some of the great examples of how technology can really be used to help some very marginalized people. Wonderful. Thank you, Shreya. And I want to point out that I found it really fascinating, the Gujarat example, because there it was really not just the use of the technology, but the innovation mindset of the Gujarat High Court that sort of allowed for this new evidence to be used. So, you know, as I think Shreya, you were saying before, it's not only dependent on the technology, tech is just a tool. It's also who's using that technology and making decisions based on it. So, Milton, from your perspective, can you share some examples of how technologies have benefited marginalized communities? Sure, Shreya. The first thing that comes to mind is a community that was set up to map all informal communities, as we call it in general, the sport assessments. We're not so prepared to determine the area and extent of each settlement using imagery, and just whose values are incorporated in various classes in decision making. And just whose are also used to come from the age and extent of communities that determine the number of courses in which each of these communities and which legal policies they were set up to do. It assisted the process of finding a parcel from the internet owner so the partnership could be needed to transfer it to the participants. Another example in Jamaica is Burma in a landline administration management program, or we call it that, that has been in place for a few years now. It has now been led by the National Land Agency. The recognizing part is the hindering factor to registration of these areas. To remind one of this, the objective of this program is to increase percentage of registered properties across country and regularize tenure of property owners that are sorts of advanced technologies in use from this exercise to map locations to get addressed and to ensure that there is transparent maintenance and not beating up the process associated with these areas. And I can also make reference to the fact that here in Jamaica, the early stages of making use of jolons for mapping have been invested recently in technology. The intention is to make use of unmanned aerial vehicles to map areas including informal settlements and areas which may be difficult to traverse and will marginalize communities will exist, which also serves to build it out of our international pedestrian map and 3D pedestrian, both of which will allow for better management of land records and more than what the reality is as it exists on ground. Wonderful, thank you Milton. So Milton spoke about several tools that can be used to help squatter communities in Jamaica, including GIS tools and potentially the use of drones to map areas that are hard to access. Let's move on to you Tim. Can you share some examples based on your experiences of how technologies can benefit marginalized communities? Sure. One example I'd like to share, I think Shreya was alluding to this earlier, but in Odisha, India, the Kadastra Foundation partnered with the state government and taught that trust to deliver land certification to over 125,000 households just over the past year. And if you look at the process, it included use of drones to capture high-resolution imagery of slum areas and then mobile devices to draw the boundaries of properties, capture survey information from each household. Essentially, the technologies involved in the process helped it be more accurate, transparent, uniform, and efficient. Another example that comes to mind is from the South America. You have the Amazon Conservation Trust, which is teaching indigenous groups from 11 different nations on how to use GIS technologies to protect their land and their ways of life in the Amazon. And they're using technology to record tribal boundaries as well as the resources within those boundaries and ultimately to support participatory planning together with these communities. Thank you, Tim. So we've heard multiple specific examples from Gujarat to Ghana to the Amazon of how technology can benefit marginalized communities. We've heard that it's benefited informal owners or squatters. We've heard a lot in particular about drones and also mobile mapping as tools that can be widely used by marginalized groups. Turning to our next question, Mustafa, a big debate right now is over the ownership, use, and control of data. So what should be done with all this data that's being collected with these new technologies? How can you ensure that government data is open while at the same time communities are protected? In so far as the land tenure systems is concerned, the spatial and actual data which are collected at the feed level are primarily aimed at the issuance of the land title. So and also the management of the post-registration transactions such as mortgage transfer, subdivision of land, inheritance, etc. So but the heavy copies of land data are stored at the district and village level for easy access at the village level. But also we as LTA we've been able to design a computerized land administration system which is called TRUST whereby all land data can be easily accessed by the public for official search during mortgage sale or purchase. But also the land owners are contributing to contributing a very small fee for such kind of transactions. Interesting. Tim, from your perspective, what should be done with all of this data that's being collected? How do we strike the balance between openness and privacy? Well, in my view, the data that's collected should be maintained as a system of record. This means leveraging efficient well-managed workflows, systems that manage data integrity and security, and capabilities that deliver modern information products and services to stakeholders, taxpayers, citizens. What we do know is that land ownership data is really far behind in its level of openness as compared to other datasets such as government budgets, national statistical data. This is evidenced by indicators that have been put out by the open data barometer and the global open data index. Whereas I'd say in the past, publishing geospatial data used to be a very time-consuming, costly process. It's much more, I think, more of a routine part of daily operations for many cadastral organizations. And some of the initial fears over the loss of revenue from the provisioning of this data have in many ways been replaced by the potential return on investment associated with improved data management. And the cost savings from eliminating the workload associated with redundant requests from multiple government agencies, including fulfilling data orders, collecting and accounting for related fees is quite substantial. So in many ways, governments stand to gain from putting the data out there because it helped increase land market activity, potential for tax collection, and the broader economic development that can be spurred from making cadastral data more readily accessible to different stakeholders. Right. Thanks, Tim. So we heard about the importance of data being both accessible to the government for its core services and value-added services, but also to citizens, and that citizen privacy should be protected. It's hard to strike the right balance. Tim also touched on how advances in technology are actually helping us make data more open in a responsible way that maintains revenue flows for government agencies. So let's turn to our next question. Tech is cool, but what about the enabling environment? Shreya, what are the enabling conditions that would allow governments and communities to effectively use technology to increase tenure security? So like you rightly said, tech is cool, but it's only 20% of the solution, I think. I mean, about 80% is just people, people having the right processes and then people all over again. So technology can help collect data, view data, it increases transparency, it reduces information asymmetry, reduces cost. But if you really want people to have more tenure security, if that's what the end goal is, I think that'll only come when the formal government system starts to absorb all the data that is being generated with all these processes, absorbs this data, makes it a part of their own business as usual, updates these land records and property registries. So that mindset within the government to not treat this as some standalone project, which is being funded and when the funding goes, the project shuts down, will really make it part of their business as usual. Great. Thank you, Shreya. Mustafa, you're on the ground working with the government and with communities to implement these new technologies. What are the enabling conditions that you see that would allow these technologies to be effectively adopted? Of course, based on experience in implementing two projects in Tanzania, I think political will is one of the critical issues of course, cost-effective of the technologies because people that want cheap technology so they can use it. User-friendly of technologies, one technology that the video they can use, they can participate in implementing land administration. Also, the security of data collected from the field. Also, these are the very critical that the government are very concerning on it, accessibility and transparent of the data, restriction from the cloud, of course, and corruption in land administration system in Tanzania. Also, that's one of the very critical issues to be considered. But also, the use of open standard, open source modality, the use of maybe QGIS instead of GIS, the using of mass and trust technology or open software. Also, infrastructure, human resource, and also training requirements for the district land officers. These are the very critical issues in Tanzania, of course, as long as land administration is concerned. Wonderful. Thank you, Mustafa. Renee, from your perspective, what are the enabling conditions that would allow governments and communities to effectively use new technologies to increase tenure security? I think it's important to ensure that everyone has equal access to the same information because if access is distorted, it can lend itself to creation of issues of equality. Technology can help to solve this in different ways. So, free technology, land-related data, for example, can be available. Performance quality can assist by ensuring that the representative enabling conditions to ensure the technology is used exists. So, some of the some of the government tell you that it can look at as the needless at the community level, for example, ensure that there is extensive internet communication within the country and there is access within and throughout the country. Also, making map records available electronically is very helpful because as an example, for some of the people, what we have done is successfully made a web map available for the first time to any of the people who are interested in the land. This product is called e-learning vehicle and we've registered transactions upwards of $1,000 per month. In addition to that, at the community level, we can look at the government level including affordability of the access devices. So, things like competition, tablets, mobile devices, if most of these, if not all, are within the reach of the population or they can have access and ownership, then they will have information to the, to the information that will be available in the devices. And for areas that would not have good internet information, what we could look at is having centralized access points or hotspots. And so, people can probably go to original offerings or shares something of that nature and be able to get information from a reliable source for land-saving information. So, there are other things that the government can do to specific state agencies and there are typically two examples. For us, at the National Land Agency in Jamaica, we have something called property statistics app. This app shows the level of land registration by Irish and this is then used by the government to determine the percentage of registration for each state or administrative boundary. And this information was then used at the policy level to determine, for example, what land is to be focused on for increasing registration in a financial period for an administrative boundary. Secondly, the National Land Agency supports our tax administration department by maintaining an online portal. And this online portal allows, again, anyone with access to specific queries for land ownership information as well as property tax payments history. So, these collectively can help to indicate at the company level and at the community level. Wonderful. Thank you, Renee. So, I just wanted to kind of, you know, highlight one thing, Renee, that you said that I thought was really important, which is that you have to ensure that everyone has access to that same data and the same technology to ensure that it's equitably used. So, you spoke about things like infrastructure, internet penetration, and affordable access to devices such as computers and tablets. And you spoke a bit about Jamaica's efforts to boost this through, for example, centralized access points or hotspots or portals that can be accessed by people who may not have great internet or have access to these devices. So, turning to Tim, what are the enabling conditions that you see that would allow governments and communities to effectively use technology to increase their tenure security? I think one of the most important enabling conditions is leadership to think outside the box and I think a clear vision on how technology can be applied to do things differently. Without this, you know, C organizations tend to get stuck in institutional inertia in a way things have always been done. But if you do have that leadership and it exists with a clear vision, then it's important to plan and identify the resources required to use and sustain the technology for the stated goals. And finally, the staff implementing the vision also need the skills and the incentives to execute upon it at the end of the day. Thanks, Tim. So, we've heard that it's about political will, leadership and vision. It's not just about the tech, it's also about the people and the processes. And it's also about basic infrastructure like internet connections. Let's move on to our next question. Shreya, what are the most common mistakes that you see from governments and others who are trying to adopt new technologies? So, some things that come to mind. You know, people, the first thing that people want to do is spend money on hardware because it's so much easier to do. You have something that you can touch and feel in your hands. So, let's just go out and buy mobile phones and tablets for everyone. So, they don't really think through what else is required. The second is, you know, just trying to adopt technology. If it requires too much deviation from business as usual, you know, government officials, people, they have a certain way of working. They're used to a certain way. They will resist change. So, if you expect too much change in processes, then the technology will not get adopted. And lastly, often, governments, you know, just like how Tim mentioned, they lack the vision. They don't think through what all process changes could be required. I mean, about 10 years ago, we had this major, you know, project where cities created these beautiful maps. They used high resolution imagery. They had detailed slum maps, also level information and so on. And now all of that data is obsolete. And they did not think through what is required to ensure that the data is constantly updated at a regular frequency. So, all of that is now sitting somewhere. It's a huge waste of public resources. And, you know, who can blame the technology for it? The technology was beautiful. They just didn't think through the process. Great. Thank you, Shreya. Mustafa, what are the most common mistakes that you see in trying to adopt technology? I think if the governments or private sector are trying to adopt new technology without having any required legal framework in place to support such a technology that might be a challenge, but also the fear of the security of the collected data by even testing it or implementation. So, I think that is also the point. Like of proper piloting of the technologies, we need to know the lesson names. We need to know what works, what not good, what's right, what does not work. So, through the pilot may come up with these kind of issues, but also, like of community engagement in obtaining support for implementation of the technology. For me, I think those are the key mistakes that government or private sector can make. Thank you. Wonderful. Thank you, Mustafa. Rene, moving over to you. What are some of the common mistakes that you see in trying to adopt land technologies? In responding to this question, one good point to things like including the end user at the end of the project, which invariably results in absence of inclusion and user buying. And we see that as one of the main reasons why technology projects build globally. So, when the end user is integrated in the process, a project by itself benefits from their suggestions for efficiency and inclusion of new features that sometimes they develop or didn't think about. Also, sometimes we have an insistence on implementing all of the new features at once instead of incrementally, and experience how shown, at least from where I see it, where incremental changes have lowered the negative effects on the end user and has turned on time and also has positive effects on training. Finally, I would probably look at not mentioning enough details on the technology and ensuring that it fits the local situation before moving to the state of implementation. Many systems that are used locally require some amount of customization, so it's important to determine what to make a determination as to what is required as it relates to customization and what can be accommodated in the technology and in the system. So, there's a clear outline as to what changes are needed at a lower level, the procedural changes, legislative changes, things of that nature. So, we recently looked at a project where we implemented it and we realized that the technology requires electronic signatures, but by looking at it holistically, we could see that we need to make legislative amendments to accommodate electronic signatures, for example. And so, by doing it in that manner, you may be able to benefit from having the supporting details increased before they return on this implementation. Wonderful. Thank you, Renee. And finally, Tim, from your perspective, what do you see as the most common mistakes from those who are trying to adopt these technologies? Well, I think my fellow panelists covered this quite well. So, I think the only thing I would add is that one of the common mistakes I've seen is that there's a lack of long-term planning to sustain the technology. And this means budgeting for continuous training, as well as the software and hardware maintenance and support out into the future. Without that, oftentimes the technology becomes out of date or has problems functioning after a certain amount of time. Great. So, we've heard a whole host of lessons learned, everything from overspending on hardware, to not updating legislation, to what Mustafa spoke about, this expert complex of thinking that only the highly trained professionals can do the job, not implementing a user-centered design process, lack of long-term planning. All of these things can result in not being as successful in adopting new technologies. So, we'll move on to our final question. We've heard a lot about mobile mapping and about drones in particular, but not so much about some of the newer technologies that have been described in some of the primers. So, I'll open this up to any of the panelists. Would any of the panelists like to say a few words about any work that they're doing with any of these other technologies or kind of take a stab at describing how some of these new technologies could potentially be applied? Yes, please. Okay. Now, I can just share one example of, it was a project that we did in the city of Bangalore. And what we were trying to do is can we use machine learning on really high-resolution satellite imagery to detect slums in the city. So, it was quite interesting. So, we had a team on the ground which had done the ground-truthing data and then another team which was running the algorithms on the satellite imagery. And so, the reason we were interested in saying is because the entire slums landscape is so dynamic and slums keep popping up and disappearing. And nobody, especially officials, government officials have no idea where these slums are or how many slums are there. So, one of the findings of that study was that while the government records showed there are close to 600 slum settlements across the city, the machine was able to detect 2,000 slum settlements. So, there was this huge gap and this is something that only the machines are able to do. If you can't send an army onto the ground to find all these slums there. Great. Thank you very much, Shreya. Would any of the other panelists like to chime in? Yeah, Yuli, I've just added that on the 3D cadastro side we're seeing increasing interest, particularly from countries that are very quickly urbanizing. So, if you look at particularly parts of Asia where they have dense complex urban environments where you're dealing with many instances, sometimes overlapping rights. So, you think about the built environment and high rises as well as subterranean rights and land uses. So, being able to manage all those rights in an authoritative way and also being able to accurately capture and maintain the property boundaries and related attributes tied to those properties is really critical. But also, I think with the 3D cadastro it also opens up opportunities for improved planning, visualization of the built environment. So, we are definitely seeing I think increasing interest and movement in that direction of a 3D cadastro. Great. Well, thank you to the panelists. We'll now move into the Q&A portion of the session. So, a reminder to the participants that you have a question feature in your go-to webinar browser. So, please ask your questions through that feature. Our first question comes to, we'll pose this, maybe Shreya can kick us off and we can see if anyone else wants to also jump in. So, we've heard about how fake or inaccurate data can marginalize people deliberately or otherwise. Not so much discussed in this webinar, but we know that this is kind of a discourse societally. And Shreya, you rightly pointed out that tech is sort of a neutral tool that really depends based on who is using it on whether it's used for good or for bad or whether it's correctly used or effectively used. So, this participant is challenging this a little bit and saying that you can't really remove the technology from scrutiny by stating that it depends on the user because all technology is designed by people. So, to build further on this question, how do we ensure that technology is designed in such a way as to be the most equitable? Okay, that's a great point. I think that as a starting point, yes, it's important to acknowledge that different communities may have different starting points and therefore technology needs whatever platform you are designing needs to take that into account as a part of the design principles. So, for example, one of the things that we're talking about in India, we're talking about there's a need for what we call as public digital platforms that are a huge amount of data that the government, different government departments have. And we're actually leaving the thinking around how can you structure these public digital platforms so that you can use it, you can have a community around it. So, can you use the principles like it should be open source, it should be modular, interoperable, so and all those, create a community around it that makes it easily so that people can also take a look at what does the tech stack that is getting built and can suggest and build improvements around it. And one of the other things that we are promoting is that whenever you think about building a tech platform, it then needs to be privacy by design. So, the design principles need to think right from the beginning how to protect people's privacy, especially around personally identifiable sensitive information. So, I guess, yeah, as you start building a platform, keep in mind some of these vulnerabilities which are possible and put that as a part of the design process. Great, thank you so much, Shreya. Would anyone else, any of the other panelists like to chime in? Of course, from my experience, I think there is a need of the data to be sent to the villagers, to the residents themselves, so that they can get a chance to review, to correct the data and use the data, of course. So, we as LTA, whenever we collect the data, we send them back to the villagers themselves for a period of 14 days so that they can get a chance to review their data, to correct some information and also collecting back to the office for final correction before even issuing the titles. So, I think sharing to the communities is necessary. Great, thank you, Mustafa. Would anyone else like to chime in? Okay, let's move on to our next question and Mustafa, I'll pose this to you first, but again, anyone else can chime in. So, this question is about sustainability. We're introducing all of these new technologies, but how do we build capacity of the local land actors to make sure that they can directly manage these technologies and databases? From our experience, of course, as I was talking earlier, whenever we design the technologies, the key actors need to participate. So, for instance, during the designing of mobile application must and also the trust, which is the web-based system, the land officers, the villagers themselves participated in the designing. And also, we are following the legal framework, which guiding the range of registration in Tanzania. So, when you use the land officers to design such technologies, I think it's easy for them to use it in future. And also, even in the course of implementation, some of the projects like they hire the staff to implement the job. But if the villagers themselves do implement it, if the government officials themselves participate in implementation and also using those technologies, I think, even after the wind-up of the project, they can proceed in the technologies are being sustainable. Great, thank you, Mustafa. Does anyone else want to chime in on that question? No, let's chime in. But I've seen and I think I commented on this earlier in one of my responses, but I think it's important that the leadership within these organizations that are adopting these newer technologies, again, be thinking long-term and be planning long-term in terms of training, continuous training of staff, opportunities or identifying opportunities for growth within the organization. I think being able to identify quick wins that can help generate buzz within the government and with the public, which can help garner support and ultimately budget for out years, I think that's all critical for the sustainability of it. Wonderful, thank you, Tim. So, let me pose this next question to Milton and Renee. Working inside a government land agency, the question is, what is the cost-benefit analysis that you adopt when you're thinking about whether to adopt these new technologies? I know that the Jamaica land agency has looked at several new technologies recently, so how do you think through the costs and benefits before you take one on? Hi, thanks for that question, Julia. We do think in dollars and cents, so one of the first things we look at is in terms of what a particular technology would bring to the table in terms of returns, what returns. Of course, we do that against the costs to the agency in terms of technology. So, if the costs always, and you would be careful about implementation are taking on that technology, but if we see where the returns to the agency and also the benefits that it will bring to the community, we will make a decision to go with that particular technology. So, it's always a balance in that in terms of what we gave as opposed to what we would have to do in that kind of technology. And, if I may add, some of the factors that we're also looking at are things like time and quality of data, because those would really factor in making a decision or determination if we are looking at multiple options. Great, thank you, Renee. Would any of the other panelists like to jump in on the cost and benefit analysis that you look at when adopting new technologies? Okay, next question is to Tim. As you know, the U.S. lacks a national disaster. So, what lessons and advice, based on your experience, do you have for, you know, when you're speaking with other governments around their cadastres, what advice do you have for adopting a national cadastre in their respective countries? Or do you not provide that advice, and in fact, do you advocate for a more decentralized service? I wouldn't say we advocate for any particular direction, but, you know, from a technology provider view, I think it's easier now to be able to accommodate both options, whether you have a national kind of centralized cadastre or if you have a decentralized where perhaps cadastres maintain at a regional level or municipal level. One of the technologies that I mentioned earlier in one of my responses was, you know, web services, and being able to now leverage web services in kind of a distributed architecture in many ways allows for cadastres at a subnational level to easily share and to integrate that data at a national level. So, it's no longer a technical barrier to be able to maintain cadastral data at a subnational level and be able to integrate that to a national level. I think it more comes down to legal issue and how the country or jurisdictions wants to manage it. So, we don't provide any particular advice one way or another for how a country should go about it, but we can I think accommodate a variety of different approaches to how that data is managed and shared and integrated, whether it's a decentralized or up to a national level. Great, thank you Tim. And this question, why don't we again pose it first to Renee and Milton, but really I want to open this up to all the panelists because I think this is a really important question. And the question is how do you ensure that public institutions have the capacity to use and maintain these new technologies? What happens when experts leave, for example, to join the private sector and take their capacity with them? You know, do you deploy any sort of continuous training or how do you ensure that your staff are up-to-date on new technologies? Very good, I'm sure it's one that is based on someone's training and has a skill and is able to contribute to that data, using that program. So, what we do on our industry that we have continuous training, we also, I was in an understudy system, so we're, it is possible, you know, an expert with an understudy, so as to ensure that whatever one moves, the other one will move at least 90% of that. And so if you lose one, the business is able to continue because there's somebody else who can do the same thing. So those are some of the things that we do on our side to try to be effective in fact. Also documentation we've done today is very critical because it's wanting to be trained and have all the information in your header, but it's another thing when you're able to have documentation. So someone who has absolutely nothing, no matter about the technology on a system, can then take that documentation and be able to step in someone's shoes if they should be in office. Great, thank you Renee. Would any of the other panelists like to jump in on this one? Okay, next question I'd like to pose to Mustafa first and then anyone else can jump in. We spoke a lot about how technology can be used for mapping and land registration, but what about land use planning and zoning? How can new technologies be used to help with land use planning? Of course from our experience, we're using the new, we're using mobile application. We're using MAST to prepare the land use planning because land use is all about the demarcation and allocation of the land for different uses. So technology like MAST or starter image can be used to allocate glazing areas, can be used to allocate residential areas. Only challenge of course in Tanzania, the land use plan is prerequisite for first registration, but the only issue is the depilation of the land use plan is very expensive, but we as a project we have tried to reduce the number of days. We are preparing land use plan for only 10 days and also we have managed to split the plan team because there is a specific team which are designated for depilation of the land use plan at the basic level. So we've managed to split that team into two and we have managed to prepare in two land use plans continuously. So still there's a room for using advanced technology in preparing by demarcating the designated area for different uses. Great, thank you Mustafa. Tim, I know that Esri does quite a bit of work around zoning. Perhaps you could tell us a few words about how new technologies can help with the zoning process. Yeah, so I mean we touched upon 3D and the tech primers that we worked on together with New America and I think as we start thinking about the 3D environment and 3D data it opens up opportunities to more or less create a digital twin of the real world environment which facilitates I think planning activities because it can allow you to play with different scenarios in terms of buildings, building size, height and also kind of interactively be able to understand that's impact on different key performance indicators which may be related to the number of people that can be accommodated in a particular building or particular part of the city or the number of jobs that may be created by altering the height within a kind of 3D environment and playing with these different scenarios. Another example I can think you know related to another piece of technology that was discussed in the primers is really related to machine learning and artificial intelligence and we've seen it being applied to classify land use at large scale and in addition to that being able to look at kind of past land use changes and to you know based off of that data to predict future land use changes that may be occurring and with that information being able to better plan how you'd want that essentially like growth to occur over time. Great thank you Tim. The next question is for Shreya. In India are there any efforts being made by the government to democratize real estate data? So the example that this participant gives is for example developing an area-based rental index to the benefit of the community. Okay from the government side efforts are I would say mixed so for example if you think about just the basic data around property registrations of any transaction whether it's a lease transaction or a sale transaction actually all of that data is available in the public. It's just that it's not easily accessible people don't know where to look for it but the data is really out there and there are a bunch of companies when I was scraping through the data and coming up with their own models around it. An example of this index not this particular index that I know of the housing bank the regulator had tried to come up with an index around house prices but again the way it was done within a government department wasn't really publicized so I don't think people it saw much uptake among common people so long answer if you got it shot from a government efforts perhaps not too much around it no no deliberate efforts may if I may put it that way a lot of the data is publicly available. Great thank you Shreya. So this next question I think probably Rene, Milton and Tim may be best positioned to answer so I'll start with you and then others can chime in and this is a question around cyber security. So how do you ensure that for example cadastral data in GIS databases is not hacked or how do you ensure that drone data is secure? I'll go first. It is something that we are working at. We know that the potential is there and it is a high risk and it won't have that consequence for the internal data. So we don't wear basic things at all at the onset so we would add authentication and different types of authentication to ensure the right individual has the right level of access to the information. We've also looked at auditing so there's a very robust audit trail on all our data sites. We know who accessed what where and we've also looked at things like maybe hashing so if there's an exchange in the condition or any change at all in any data set there's something within the data or we can do information to have some change and who made it and when but also the testing is going to have to do all sites so if one thing goes down or the integrity is compromised somewhere you have some a complete data set so we're going to be able to match against it. So we're going to match things from maybe a few different perspectives but holistically we're hoping that these can help us to protect ourselves because we know the threat and the risk ends. I can also add you that from the personnel side the national agency at Instruction decided to take on board a network security specialist example of us taking this very seriously. Yeah and if I were to add some input I would say that you know because Esri works with governments at all scales across the globe that obviously security is really embedded within the core of our technology which is why a lot of governments around the world are using it oftentimes you know very sensitive data including cadastral data but on top of the the kind of security built into the architecture of the technology we've also made it possible that each of the users within your organization have their own identity so when they log in to access or to edit any data it's tied to your identity and what roles or privileges that you've been given within your organization so based off you know your identity and those roles maybe you can only view certain data maybe you can only edit certain types of data or publish certain types of data and then on top of that there's editing tracking built in to the technology as well so you can always go back to understand when an edit took place and who made that edit and so on so there's a variety of different layers and ways in which security has been built into the the technology. Wonderful thank you Tim Shreya back to you for this next question which private sector actors do you see investing in these technologies and why and the second part of this question is do you see any sort of a conflict of interest in the private sector using these technologies for land surveying and mapping. So if you're talking about the technologies and which private sectors I mean the drones for example a lot of that work was done actually by the private sector and in a way it's actually good to have many of these players there was a good healthy competition we actually got good quality output coming out of it so we didn't really find any conflict of interest at least so on the on the drone side of it or even around even if you have to think about say a land administration system should a private sector player be involved in it I think absolutely and I don't so I can give you an example in India the you know for many years getting a passport was like it could take you a year maybe even two years to get yourself a passport but over the last few years they've outsourced it to a private sector today I can get a passport in like one day because the entire process is given to a private sector but the final validation is still done by a government official so you can figure out parts which can be carved out and given to a private sector because they can do it much more efficiently and there could be certain parts which I'd say around validation signatures sign off which the government can still hold on to to ensure the veracity of it so yeah absolutely you can see private sector playing a big role thanks Shreya Tim as the private sector representative I don't know if you want to chime in on this one well I mean we we build technology that's used by both the public and the private sector as well as non-profits globally and I would say that you know that the private sector is almost always played a role in the land sector if you look back in history and you know it there's a continuum in terms of the level of involvement that they have within the land sector it could be one end you know private surveyors surveying property you know that in that survey plans eventually you know handed over to government it could be notaries but then you look at the other end of the spectrum and it could be you know some of these examples that you're seeing for instance in parts of Australia where they're selling off you know the registry and as being operated by a private company so there's a variety of ways and degrees to which the private sector can be involved and I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing for them to be involved in delivering certain types of services and some in some instances they may be able to deliver higher quality and more efficient services for the the public at the end of the day. Great thank you Tim. Next question is for Mustafa. So Mustafa you spoke a little bit about this you know kind of inferiority complex between the community members who are adopting your technology and the professional land officials who may feel that these community members you know aren't don't know how to use it or how to use it for mapping. On the other hand you know I've seen with my own eyes the way that MAS has empowered community members to get interested in new technology and feel that they're providing a useful service to their village. So the question is how are these technologies altering the relationships between different actors? Of course that's a very good question in Tanzania of course the land actors of course which is for instance the village land is a little bit protected by the government so the land officers the surveyors the cartographers they think that they are the one who can do and demarcate and each they set a ticket so they think there is no room for community member to participate in this process and this because they are getting a lot of money through this process so for them allowing the villagers to participate the residents to participate in helping demarcating the end passers it's like they feel that they're going to block that chain so when we design the mobile application we make sure that it's cost-effective and then the cost-effectiveness can be made by making the village themselves to work on it to use the technologies in terms of demarcation and education so we have managed to train the village members of course in cooking boys and girls on how to use this mobile application and they prove that they can demarcate land passers and also the village itself can can full participate in the process so by working that way we've managed to open the doors and between the land officers and the villagers in working together to make sure that they they review the cost in terms of implementation and registration in Tanzania. Great thanks so much Mustafa and I think this is a great question so wanted to open it up to any of the other panelists who want to jump in on this. Okay so this next question is a follow-up from the private sector question that was posed to Shreya so let's see I'm just I'm reading this in real time so basically the follow-up question is that land has traditionally been the realm of NGOs and the government so how can you know if private sector actors are getting involved in the land sector how can the income from the private sector operations be used to tackle challenges in land administration and I'll open that up to anyone who wants to take a stab at it. Well I guess I'll try to answer it if I understand it correctly that you know in some ways you know if the private sector is providing a service and they're getting paid for that service ideally they're taking some of that revenue that's being generated and investing back in to ideally the technology and services that maybe that they're providing to their constituency groups you know this kind of again goes back to I think some of the conversation we had earlier in the webinar but you got to think long term and that's not only for governments also for private sector actors that you can't just invest once and expect to be able to keep up with technological changes and offer the same quality of services that you constantly have to be investing in your operations investing in research and development to be able to grow with technology grow with the changing needs and requirements of your customer base and you know I think that's part of the reason Esri's been successful over the past 50 years is that it's always taken an approach of responding to our users for a user-driven company we invest back in that research development upwards of 33 percent of annual turnover each year that allows us to be able to continue to provide you know world-class technology and solutions to our different stakeholders and customers around the world so yeah I just think it's important to you know continue to invest continue to innovate and continue to fund research and development well on that note we have just a couple of minutes left in our webinar so I would like to invite each of our panelists to give you know a few seconds of kind of final wrap up thoughts on this topic of technology and transparency we'll start with Mustafa then move to Tim then to Shreya and then to Milton and Renee Mustafa please of course we as implementing partners of course we do implementing helping development and designing different technologies for me the top of this discussion is we have to make sure that's whenever we have to design is is is guided by the existing procedures existing legal framework as a land registration as concerned but also we have to make sure that we design the technology that is user-friendly that is effective to the community we are providing that's that's funny thank you wonderful thank you Mustafa Tim yeah I would say you know it was a real pleasure working with new america and putting together these tech primers because I can say from firsthand experience of working in the tech company that technology is rapidly changing that there's new capabilities coming out seems like every other week so being able to kind of boil it down and put it into kind of simple terms in terms of how it can be applied within one particular sector I hope is useful to the different groups that may be leveraging um we're looking into some of these new new technologies so it was a real pleasure working on this with you all and hopefully it was helpful we share that sentiment thank you Tim Shreya please now thank you to new america and ST actually for putting together these really cutting edge technology that's great that the land sector is now getting exposed to these kind of technologies and you know just yesterday we were speaking to a government official in orisa who told us that the only way they could have earlier surveyed all those slums 200,000 slums was to use the chain method and that would have taken like decades I think to complete it and so just you know acknowledging how the use of drones allowed them to map 200,000 slums in just a year just shows that you know we can really move forward on this critical issue of land tenure if we start adopting technology thank you Shreya and finally Milton and Rene please okay thanks you there we two must extend your thanks for the opportunity to part speed in this very lively discussion informative also from our end the final word then we'll see that as far as land is concerned a lot of economic potential remains locked away in that natural experience and in a small island development state as Jamaica is and we swear the application of the technology we see that as important in bringing out the potential that exists and empowering people and giving them the opportunity to make use of the land and an application of technology such as 3D cut us this certain they have to stream to the north side and use our genesis is also something that that is useful and it is our intention to continue to push the limit in terms of what technology can bring to the team to ensure that there is equity and transparency in the government's land to come on our end and but there's not really much to add to American said I'm really just to say we're at a wonderful peace and change as far as technology is for land related issues we've seen that there are still technologies that are under and the challenge really is for us to look at a way that we can use these technological advances to solve some of the issues that have by reaching consequences wonderful well now it's my turn to thank all of our esteemed panelists who are really coming at this issue from every different angle from the private sector from the government from implementing organizations from investors thank you to the land portal for hosting this webinar and putting together a great presentation and thank you so much to Esri for being a partner to new america in putting together these primers I hope that these tech primers in this conversation has wet your appetite a bit to explore these technologies in a little more detail and not to be too intimidated of them and see how they may be useful in some of your own work so thank you to the audience for a really engaging session and all of the questions there were a couple of questions that we unfortunately did not get to we will pass those questions on to the panelists and make sure that we email you the answers so thank you very much everyone and enjoy the rest of your day bye thank you thank you