 I'm here today with Maggie Gentry and the reason I found Maggie was I was curious who else is out there who's thinking about like conscious marketing and I Googled conscious copywriting and Maggie was one of the top folks who showed up in the results. I really liked her website and just said, hey, let's have a conversation about this kind of thing. So anyway, Maggie, welcome. Thank you for doing this. Thanks so much for having me. I'm really thrilled to be here. Yeah, and there are so many topics we could talk about. One of the topics that we brainstormed which I think will be relevant to a lot of people watching this is about niching down versus not having to. So just to set the context a little bit here, I have a lot of kind of heart-based or visionary entrepreneurs in my audience. And I guess I would include myself in that. I don't know much about visionary but certainly try to be heart-based. And we have lots of ideas, lots of passions or interests or kind of divergent, what seems like divergent areas that we could offer as top content and services, et cetera. And we get so, maybe sometimes we get discouraged when we hear from marketing or business experts that tell us that we have to focus on one tiny niche in order to be successful. This is true whether we're talking about content, like, oh, we don't focus on one tiny, tiny piece of thing, area, no one's gonna remember who you are, you know? Or in terms of services, like, oh, you don't want people to think of you are flake or you want people to think of you an expert and that's if you focus on one tiny, you solve one tiny problem from one person in the world, what kind of thing. And so I'm really interested to know what your take is on that, you help people with copywriting all the time and copywriting, well, so you know marketing really well. So let's talk about this, what's your take on this? Yeah, thank you. I feel very strongly that we don't have to niche down and I think that that's something that is controversial because I see that languaging around niching to be really limiting and I think that it's also, it can be effective for certain business models, but for the folks that you and I are working with, so I also work with largely service-based providers and I would classify them as multi-passionate humans. So folks who are extremely creative and they might have a few different ways in which they want to show up and share their work. And so I have had many conversations with potential clients and clients themselves who feel really frustrated by some of that where I think they find themselves really stuck because they feel as though they have to put these boundaries around themselves or these parameters around themselves that don't allow them to show up in their truest, most authentic self way. And so for me, what seems to be most important is the energy that is felt when you create something. So whether that is a piece of content or whether that is showing up for your clients on the call or in whatever way that that might manifest. So if we can find ways to just ignore the information that is not for us and rather find what is our truth and if we can live our truth. And so we are evolving beings, right? And I think that there's something about this idea for me at least personally with the idea of niching that feels so restrictive. And so if I am to be this evolving human then I want to create a business that will evolve with me. So naturally there's gonna be some growth and some change. And yes, people might think that is flaky but I would argue that it's like the heart of what I'm offering is the same throughout. It might evolve or morph slightly as I evolve and morph but there's that through line of that truth that is through everything. So that is my hope is for each person that I work with. It's like, what is that through line? What is that truth? What is that foundation that you want to be known for with your work and focus on that rather than it having to be a super specific. I only do X for these particular people and it's a very concretely packaged offering. But I'm also a Gemini son. So it's like, I think I like to have these kind of different things. Well, I think that is gonna be resonant with a lot of people watching this. So I love hearing that. That's certainly a healing bomb for that, this pressurizing thing about solving one problem for one person. So the through line, I really like that. And I think this is where a lot of people get stuck. It's like, that's true, Maggie. I have these multiple passions. Now, how the heck do I write my homepage or how do I describe what I do, right? Like that's a broader question. And so I'm sure you work with us all the time. You're a copywriter. So what is your guidance for that? Like how do I describe the vastness or the diversity of what I do? And, you know, practical way of saying that is how the heck do we write our homepage? Yeah, yeah. So I mean, yes, copywriting is something that I do and my background is in marketing. So I always kind of bring this like overarching viewpoint to it. And so what we're kind of getting at is the philosophy that I have created is something called own your why. And so this idea that it was very much inspired by Simon Sinek and his start with why. And it's really, it's adjusting it slightly and then also kind of seeing it through. But I wanna bring it back to without going too far off on that tangent, I wanna bring it back to your question about homepage copy. So I would say to that through line, that truth is your why. And as far as writing homepage copy, the kind of formula, if you will, that I follow is start with your why. And then the reason for that is that your why statement is gonna be something that's big, bold. That is that visionary statement. I like to think of it as this like shout it from the moon to all of us down here statement. So that, what happens when you land on your why is that you are touching heart to heart. So it's something that's so big that might not have, it might not make much logical sense, but we are breaking through the normal and typical kind of categorization that our logical brain wants and really trying to meet people in that heart space. So coming, starting off with that why, following it up so that at least if we just have our like mind and heart blown why to open by this phrase, then following that up with a what. So then allowing yourself and your brain to then say like, okay, wait, what was that? Oh yes, now I can know like how to categorize that. So we go why and then what? And those generally are gonna be a few sentences. So maybe it's one sentence for the why, one or two sentences for the what, and then you leave the rest of the homepage to tell us how you do that uniquely. So you can also think of it like the why is your philosophy and the how is your methodology. So walking folks through like what it will look like for you to actually work with them. I mean, case in point, if you go to my website, my why is right there at the top of my homepage. And so it's I believe where there's truth, there's strength and nothing in that says anything about what I offer or marketing at all. Yeah, it could be, I can imagine that as it's inspirational statement. It could be on various companies, websites or organizations, I like that. Yeah, but it definitely inspires right away. Right, and it's like that's that through line. So it's like in whatever way that I engage with folks, I'm always trying to reflect back to them their truth. I'm always trying to help them understand what is it that they want? Like where is their desire coming out in everything that they're doing? Because if we can live as the creators, so if we are able to create what we want, it's that again, going back to that energy, that felt sense of being really enthusiastic about what we're creating, that is felt on the other side of the screen or the audience or whatever it is that we happen to be creating. And so there's a confidence and there is a strength in that. So that's how it all ties in. I like that, I like that a lot. I wonder if we could play with this and like I'm gonna just bring an imaginary example in here. And then I wonder, you know, we could kind of play with what the homepage might look like for this kind of search provider. And you could of course bring in your own examples too or you wanna add to this one. So let's imagine somebody who, well, they don't even know what to call themselves. They are gonna, are they a life coach? Are they a spiritual healer? Are they sort of like a consciousness mentor? Okay, but what they do is, I mean, then of course they have multiple modalities. They might use like human design. They might use trauma informed coaching. They might use parts work. They might have various things they've been trained in, but maybe what essentially they do is they love helping people free themselves from the inner critic. Yeah, yeah. Okay, let's just say that. What could you imagine? Like I said, they have like at least three different modalities that they could attract people with or they have, well, this inner critic thing could be applied to so many different areas of life, right? So many different areas of work or relationships, et cetera. But what do you imagine that homepage we were just playing with this idea? What could the why sound like? And again, I'm putting you totally on the spot. We didn't even prepare this at all, but we're just playing here and I'm just trying to give the audience a sense of what the distinctions are between the why, the what and the how. So what might the why sound like? Sure, so I find it really helpful for anyone who happens to listen or watch this. When you're coming up with a why, if you're journaling or even meditating, just starting with I believe and then allowing yourself to free write and complete that phrase. So, and you can always take that I believe out if you would like. But what came to mind as you were sharing this example and it feels like a little, this would have to be for the client that maybe is a little, a snarky is coming to mind. And I don't think that that's exactly correct. But someone who's like, yeah, I'll just say it. You can play with this. Yeah, you can, you get to add to who this person is that we're playing with. So absolutely. Right, I mean, I just feel like this would not be like my personality to say it this way, but it might be something like, I believe, you know, it might be, I believe like your inner critic is not the boss of you. Or I believe like it's time to show your inner critic the way out. Or I believe it's time to like put the, your inner critic in the backseat. So something like that. And that was going off of what you mentioned about trying to like free themselves from the inner critic. So that would be an example of. That's cool. A why statement. So we did like, you know, I believe your inner critic is not the boss of you. And then you can say something like, that's why, you know, through my, and it can, it's a really helpful branding exercise to even what you're talking about. Like this person doesn't even know what to call themselves. Right, exactly. So it's like, I call myself a thought partner, which is a unique term. Yes. And the reason for that is because it's this distinct phrase that I do think really gets at the essence of what I do. So I, another part of the process that I would encourage this client to do is really come up with a phrase that feels uniquely, uniquely like them. I think you said consciousness mentor, which I hadn't heard of before. I just literally came up with that, but I'm sure there are others who call themselves that or something, yeah. But it's unique enough. I mean, it could be something. So it's like, you know, so that's why through my consciousness, like mentorship, I use human design and parts work and trauma informed therapy, coaching, yeah, to support you in XYZ. Like what is that end goal? You know, stepping into more freedom, coming into your authenticity. And then you can say, like that would be the what and then getting into the how is gonna be, so do you typically do this through like a certain series of months of a program or do you have a program that you work with people? Sometimes I have clients where they don't really have a set program, but they've got tenants or touchpoints that they walk their clients through. And sometimes it's a circular process so that, you know, they might have a client where they touch on all of those tenants in one session, but then the next three sessions, they might be kind of stuck on that step one again once they get to that next phase of kind of of the work. So that would be something is just defining like what is that process for you? I really like this exercise because it shows my audience here just a little bit about how you work and hopefully some of them are like, oh, I wanna do this with Maggie and they could book some time with you to talk about this. So this is really good. Okay, so we don't have to niche down and this is helpful to help us in, you know, when we talk about this far is like, okay, we can envision what the homepage might look like. You know, if we don't... So let's say, I'm gonna give you another challenge here. What if somebody, like you said, multi-passionate and let's stick with the existing imaginary service provider who is, you know, consciousness mentor or something. Yeah, yeah. Let's say that they also do acting coaching or they have that experience and that they maybe would like to bring some of that back in here. How would you, how might you shape the homepage as a result? And I'm throwing you, I'm just throwing you like a curve ball here. Like we've already written the homepage. I mean, in our little five minute exercise, but let's say that now they want to bring their experience in the acting world into say why, you know, I wanna bring some of that back in. What could you imagine the homepage to look like if we were trying to showcase this multi-passionate? And I could all even throw something else in there. What if they also are a painter and they want to let the visitor know that that's also a thing of theirs? Yeah. What could you imagine the homepage to look like at that point? Well, I mean, I think I would have some questions first. Great, great. You know, if it is about bringing in the acting coaching, is it that the acting coaching background is another element that they're bringing into their consciousness mentorship? So similar to parts work and trauma informed coaching is the acting coaching just an added element. So that would be perhaps a rewrite of the philosophy of the how, but it might not necessarily be a whole separate offering. If this person, however, wanted to keep the consciousness mentorship separate from that acting coaching, then that's also an option on the homepage. You know, again, it's like that's where there would be a slight tweak to that how, of course, but you know, it can be really beautiful. I love things in threes on websites. And so it could be something where if the homepage up until then, so if we say the why, what, and the how is more, I don't wanna say vague in a negative sense, but vague in terms of it can encapsulate and speak to the consciousness mentorship, the acting coaching, and then also the painting. So there is a way to talk about the person's entire philosophy that infiltrate and touch on each of those. And then the homepage could have something about I explore this currently, I explore this in three different ways, consciousness mentorship, acting coaching, and through my painting. And so then those could be three links to three separate pages based on the person who happens to be viewing the website, they could kind of choose their own adventure from there. Yeah, I love this answer because actually that was my intuition about it too. Like I could just see the homepage being, yes, we might start with a bold and inspirational statement, something, maybe now that we're adding these in, we wouldn't need to say inner critic, we would just say, the statement might be, you can be whatever you want to be or something like that. Like that's like bold and it could apply to any, and then we have these like three sections on the homepage or vertically or horizontally, it's almost like three different worlds that they can click into, right? So yeah, I mean, this is great. I love this, I hope that this is being, I'm being inspired by the possibilities and it's funny because I literally am on the verge of, I'm gonna try this out for a long time. I'm gonna like, I would love to do like spiritual coaching or something like that. So as of this recording, I'm on the verge of exploring, I'm gonna launch a spiritual coaching program. Amazing. It's not gonna be about business or marketing or whatever. And I'm gonna see how that works. But so I too am, kind of walking the talk of like, niche, who needs a niche? Or not that who needs a niche, but it's like, I believe that the energy, that's just like you said earlier, the energy of connection between me and my ideal client is, it can't be described necessarily in specific words, but it comes through, I call it the energy signature. So anyway, this has been great. And I hope that people get inspired and kind of contact you about playing with their niches and their areas as well. So we just have a few minutes and I wanna ask you one more question regarding this. So do you, you know, since we're talking about the website and stuff, people often say you have to be really persuasive in your sales page. Let's say now the visitor has clicked on the consciousness mentoring. Now they're looking at that service, for example. What is your take? I mean, just briefly about getting the visitor to buy or to sign up and tell us about your viewpoint on that. Yeah, goodness. I feel like we could talk for so much longer on this and there's more coming up of what we just shared, but in the essence of time, I mean, I feel like it is our responsibility as business owners to really honor the nervous systems of those people that are in our audience. And so even though traditional marketing has been that of using psychology and persuasion and manipulation and sometimes tacit, sometimes overt coercion, I am vehemently against it. So my recommendation would be whenever possible, yes, of course, share openly, share honestly. So if you have a particular enrollment period, you wanna make sure that you're clear about when enrollment closes. And I just don't think that we have to go so far as to having countdown timers and buy now and register today and all these exclamation points. And to me, it's just like, we have to acknowledge that our world is also on fire and there is a lot that every individual person is navigating at this particular moment and I don't see that changing. And so yes, what we have to offer the world is important and a value. And yes, I want your work and your creations to be shared. And I think if we can do that in a way that is invitational, that is consent-based, that is really gentle. It to me that just feels like as a consumer, it's like this massive cyberleaf, I appreciate it so much more. And so those are the people that I continue to go back to again and again, is those people that feel like they understand that I am a human and not just another site visitor or another click or another open rate. So that to me is really important is that we consider the actual human beings who are coming into our sphere. I love that. Essentially, we care about the experience that they're having as they go through the page itself. Well, it's interesting because I think the traditional copywriter and persuasion marketer cares about the experience of making sure they feel the pain and then they see the hyped up solution and it's like, oh, I have to buy this now, otherwise I'm gonna miss out on this. Essentially that's the experience that the traditional marketer cares about. But we care about the experience of connectedness I understand you, I care about you and if it feels right, let's do something, right? Exactly, and that's why I always think it's like we have to honor that our audience is, they are autonomous, beautiful, wise beings. They're just like us. And so I think that giving the person that same level of choice of like if you were feeling to draw onto this, if this is calling to you, if you feel the tingle in your heart, this is for you. Language like that can be really welcoming rather than by now, that pressure field. Yeah, so thank you so much, Maggie, for the work you do and the way you do it. So you have at this time of this recording, you're generous to offer people a 30 minute virtual office hour for free and tell us about that, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Ever since I started my business, I've always had these virtual office hours. So they're always available and it is a time for us to connect. I've had them where it's just like we're swapping cat photos. I've had some where it's, people come with their list of questions that they would like to have answered. Sometimes it's just exploring the idea of a potential referral partner. It kind of runs the gamut. So yeah, I just encourage if something, if something was sparked for you during this conversation, like I would love to have a further conversation. So those are always available. Thank you so much. And of course the link is in the notes of the video below above wherever you're watching this. And yeah, check out Maggie's website. It's part of the reason that I invited her here because I felt it was giving that experience of gentle connection, inspiration, and so wonderful, wonderful what you've done there. And well, is there anything else you wanna leave the audience with, final words of encouragement, send off, anything like that or anything else you forgot to mention? Oh goodness, I don't think so. I just, I'm honored to be here. Thank you for including me and thanks to the universe and the internet for bringing us together. I love how it does that in those beautiful ways. So really grateful. Thank you so much, Maggie. Thank you.