 My name is Matilda McQuade. I'm deputy director of curatorial and head of textiles. And I'm here with National Design Award winner Thomas Pfeiffer for architecture and design, and Christina Grahalus, the mysterious woman on the panel of Christina Grahalus Gallery. And we're going to be focusing on the topic of collaborating with clients. So we'll explain Christina's presence here. But first, being a gallery owner and an architect, both of your works relies on clients. So how do you go about finding your clients? How do you, and what do you look for? Or do you take anyone? Wow, that's a pretty good question. You know, usually clients come to you. Actually, I wish I understood this a little bit better but I'd be more successful. But most of our clients come to us because they've seen our work or they've seen, they give a talk somewhere. That's one way. But the second way is when we apply for projects and we audition. You go for an interview. You're involved in a competition. You have to present yourself. And then they pick us. So in a sense, it's a little bit the same. We rarely go out and pick clients. But I have to say over the years as I get more seasoned and become a more mature architect, I do find myself selecting clients more than I used to. When people come to me, and I'm not completely sure of their intention, there's a little bell that goes off that means that we very quietly turn down the commission. Have you turned down a lot of commissions? No, no, not really. Because I'm really up for unique projects, projects with unique people. And so I really have taken, I don't know, 95% of the people that have come to me. Very, very rarely. And Christina, you have a gallery. So you look for designers and artists to represent in your gallery. Or do they come to you a little bit of both? How do you find your perfect person? I think I'm in a similar position to Thomas. I think that I'm in a position now where I don't look for designers. They come to me. Every week I get about one or two portfolios from all over the world. So it's a wonderful feeling that people want to work with us. And regarding designers, I mean, once you see their work, you realize if this is something that fits in your collection. And that's how clients come to us, too, through similar to Thomas, through our exhibitions, participating in fairs all over the world, and the reputation that the gallery has at the moment. You know, though, we don't work like an artist would work. We don't sit in our studio and make work in a room like that without any contact with the outside world. The best architecture is made with great clients, clients that push you, that coddle you, that nurture you, that critique you. All of that forms great architecture. And so over the years, I have looked and worked with amazing clients who are partners in what we do. And in the end, that work that sits there is as much a part of them as it is a part of me. And I say that really sincerely. Certainly the project that Christine and I did together was a complete collaboration. How we worked together determined what that little house in Salt Point, New York became. And particularly with the Glenstone Museum that we just finished, Michelin and Emily Rails were also one of the greatest clients I've ever worked with. And in some ways, changed my whole outlook on life and on the work. They were so involved nurturing, supporting, critiquing, criticizing, walking every step of the way to make this building together. So in the end, it's really hard to separate a work of architecture from the architect and a great client. So this brings up talking about your relationship with both of your relationship. And first of all, how did you find each other? Because, well, I'm not going to explain it. Christina, you said you have a great story. So talk about how you found Tom and vice versa. Well, my wife and I are very honored that Thomas wanted to work with us. But the way it happened was very funny. Thomas had a dear friend, his name was Jeffrey Osborn, very much involved in the design business. And when we bought our land, we have a friend in common and Jeffrey sent me a message and said to me, you need to hire Thomas Pfeiffer. I was like, oh, OK. The same week that I received the message, I got elder core. And on the cover of elder core was the Tagani house. So when I saw the house, I got scared. And I thought, we are too little. Thomas, you know, he's really famous. He's never going to want to work with us. Oh, we can't afford him. So that's what happened. But then as destiny has it, a dear friend invited me to a benefit, the public art fund benefit. Remember? No, public color. Public color benefit. Ruth Schumann. Yes, with Ruth. And as I enter, who was at the door with Jeffrey Osborn, so he said to me, Christina, did you hire Thomas? And I said, no. He said, why? I said, because we cannot afford him. So who's standing next to Jeffrey? It's Thomas. So Jeffrey said, Christina, Thomas Pfeiffer, Thomas Pfeiffer, Christina. And then Thomas was very sweet. And he said, how come you didn't call me? I said, you're too famous. I cannot afford you. And Thomas was like, I've been thinking about your house. It's a jewel box. I was in shock. I was so scared. And then Thomas, you were very kind. You invited us to your office the next day. So Isabel and I went to his office. And his office is beautiful. It's really big. It's very quiet. Everybody's very serious, sitting in front of the computers. And we brought our dog Billy with us. And Billy was going in between the legs of all the architects. And Isabel and I said, that's it. We're never going to get our house. Thomas is going to get scared from us. But as I was telling Gina, and I hope I can say this in front of you, I was telling Matilda, is it OK to say that after so many years, our house was done in 2007? I still write love letters to your husband about our house. She does. Our house is truly the most beautiful house I have seen in a very long time. And you know, Thomas, it truly is a 21st century cabin, which is what we wanted to do. Which is what you said you wanted to do. Well, I think part of the kind of magic of the brief in our working together was that you wanted it to be very petite. You wanted the experience to be intimate. And you also didn't have a lot of money, which I loved. And so everything had to be down to its bare essence. Everything had to be whittled down to, this is the way to make a stare. And then it has to be really simple. But can I ask something, Thomas, that you said to me and I never forgot? So Isabel and I said to him, Thomas, why would you take our project? We are so little next to your very big clients. And you said to me, Christina, when you have a big budget, it's wonderful. But there's no boundaries. Your house is an intellectual exercise. And you put your heart and soul behind the house. And I think that that's why our house truly is extraordinary. It's an architectural jewel. Yeah, but you know, all of those meetings we had together, all those site meetings we had together, and we took a long time to work on it together. It wasn't like we finished the design in a couple months. It was a season that went by where we continued to work on it. And the longer, certainly, I'm very slow. And so the more we got to work on it together, and the more we listened and saw the site, I think that extra time was really important for us to get to know each other and for us to understand that site. And I was just telling you before we started here, this site is amazing. It has this one open field that's there, this one open field that's around. It has a little pond, has a little wetland, and it has a kind of little green. And the house is pushed to one edge so that as you approach the house, you see it across the green. And I think that was something you and I did together, was to locate this in exactly the right place. So if it's just important to listen. Well, how did you? No, I'll let you, just one quick question. How did you begin the conversation? I mean, did you have, in your mind, Christina, kind of a wish list of things that you had in mind for the house? Did you have cut out magazine pages? Was there anything that tangible? Or was it more, you described it as kind of an intellectual exercise. It was more kind of intellectual than that, kind of feelings about it. I mean, how did you begin to talk with one another? What was the language? Well, I think the size was a beginning of the dialogue, the budget was also a beginning. And then Thomas had a huge challenge. How do you develop a, I really wanted for the house not to be derivative. As much as I love the fifties house in the Hamptons that are gorgeous, we wanted for this house to feel really original and new and fresh. So I think Thomas that by having the size and the budget and the fact that you, I mean, Thomas, we just had to let Thomas do dream as to what were we gonna get? You can tell a little bit though. I mean, with everyone, and I think particularly with Christine and Isabel, we had to discover a way of communicating together and a way of talking together and a way of being curious. And you can just see by what she just said that this process of being inquisitive about each other and what this can become was hugely important to me because that openness and that the way they were accessible and just completely straightforward was really important about trying to understand what this thing might be. Well, I think trust also, Thomas. Yes, there's a lot of trust. So Thomas, so the house is a little plywood box, but then Thomas wanted to cover the house in this metal screen. And Isabel and I would go every weekend, we were renting a little house right across, very close by, we would go every weekend and sit in front of the box and just look at it and spend the whole day just looking at this box. And when the box was done, I decided that I was in love. So I called Thomas and I said, Thomas, I'm in love with the box. Do we really need the metal screen? And that's when Thomas said, Christina, there's a reason why I think we need to do, the metal screen is gorgeous. I think that you need to trust me. And when you say that, Thomas, I said to myself, yes, I do need to trust you. There's a reason why you want to cover our house with this incredibly beautiful metal screen and that's what made it the jewel box. Otherwise it would have been just a simple plywood box and it was beautiful, but this extra element really made it into the jewel. And that kind of moray effect almost makes it disappear into the landscape too. It just kind of has this. In the winter, I was afraid that the metal was going to be very present. In the winter, when we have a lot of snow, you have to look twice. The house disappears. It's really unbelievable. I'm curious in terms, because Thomas, you have clients like Corning Museum and other big, big name clients. How is that different from, you know, working with Christina and Isabella? I mean, is it, one is a house that has a very personal kind of, you might have a personal approach to it, but is it that much different? Or all clients? You know, I just absolutely love working with people. I don't like to work on projects where you never meet and have design meetings, where you pin things up on the wall, they come in critiquing and walk out. I look for those projects and we had that on the Corning Museum of Glass, where there were four people up in Corning, New York, a long way away, who were there that we closely collaborated with. And that's why I love to work on houses, because you've got a family, you've got a couple, you've got a person who's single, and you can really sit down and work on this together and to make this work of architecture together and personalize that experience. And even when you're working on larger institutions to understand their views of the world and how they believe this, what those values and priorities wanna be, that their voice somehow wants to prioritize a lot of the decisions that I make, so that in the end, this house and those projects are mirrors of those families or of those institutions. And that's really, that's kind of the foundation of the way I love to work. And Christina, in terms of how you work with your designers, I mean, Thomas is a designer, how is that different, how is it different working with him versus designers that you bring into your gallery? I don't think it's very different. I think that it's a very close relationship and again, it's based a lot on trust and it's in respect and creativity. So a lot of these elements have to be there in order for the relationship to be successful. In my experience, when the designers start going in a different direction, that's when you know that maybe it's not gonna work and that's when you have to be honest with yourself and realize, maybe like a relationship, relationship sometimes, people grow apart. So you just have to let it go. It's very intimate and emotional. It certainly is. So what's your next project together? Well, Thomas just. If you could have a project together, I mean, what would it be? What would you like to do together next? Well, Thomas just got some ecchisous for his house. That's very good. Ecchisous is a textile. But this is a funny story, Thomas, I have to say it. So when the house was done, I wanted, I worked with these wonderful Colombian weavers and I wanted a red rug at the entry. And I got this beautiful sample and I gave it to Thomas. He's like, no, red, black and white. I said, Thomas, I'm Colombian. I don't do black and white. We're going red. He said, okay. So we did the red rug and it looks gorgeous, Thomas. Who ordered a red rug this year? Mr. Piper. Right? He just gave me great satisfaction, Thomas. It gave me great satisfaction too. And Matilda. He never gave me the sample back. He kept it all these years. I think you have a job in his office. So thank you very much, Thomas and Christina for talking with me and thank you all for joining us this afternoon and see you at the next event. Bye bye.