 I got it. Hello everybody. Welcome to last Piper ledger supply chain and trade finance meeting of 2022 the 1st of December here. Here. Looks like we have a good crowd. 1st off, let's start with our normal. All are welcome. Andrea just had mentioned it. And we'll all reiterate comments. We're looking for comments for everybody and everyone. From my perspective, and our groups perspective is equal in their comments. And we're looking forward to a chat here and we'll get into that in a second. Also realize that this is part of links foundation here and everything that you say is open community and don't put anything that is confidential. Don't say anything confidential. We don't want to have any collusion. All that kind of good stuff here. So with that, we have a little agenda here and we thought we'd talk a little bit about 2022 review. We'll talk a little bit about 2023 planning. It's amazing 2022 is already almost gone here. And then we're really looking for your input on these in terms of speakers and then you'll see some of these ways to get involved that we want to spend a little bit of time on here. As we go along and announcements. I'm going to do these up front here. We shift. That's okay. Our next meeting will be on the 12th of January. So we'll have a kickoff. And then also GS 1 has a call to paper call for papers there where you can get your, get your ideas and thoughts in by December the 13th here. So let's see here with that. Andred, you want to talk a little bit about 2022 Eric or I'm happy to also I'll go first. I think Tom, I was a very good year. It's nice to say because starting out, you see as trade funds in January and I see it was some kind of narrative from 2021, which was a very good year for me. Under my perspective, the former trade fund see grow massively more in terms of participation for that became some kind of a woman certainly, which was fun to have it. So luckily, I managed to come to some other companions, we would start talking and we say it's like the first person. Alfonso and myself, we were in two days during 2021. It was called breaking south region status. So it was like, you say, putting down the record still. And we, it was about finding a common ground of interest for state funds involved in this newly created state, which came from an emerging on the two phone. And we supported this common ground into sustainability and energy related topics. We managed to bring in so many speakers. We actually kicked off the year off with Alexander Malek, a good friend of Alexander from Toronto, Canada. It's been great. So we continued and saying the same pathway. And if you remember, Tom, we have this quite often, we get the Thomas Kubiak and Robbie Henspole from ICC UK talking about sustainable program. They have the ICC and again and again during the year, April, May, we continued delivering and we continue to cast in light of solutions based on blockchain and DLP for sustainability in cross route trade, the supply chain. And that was good. We saw this summer came and we say we have that great speech by David Menel, David Menel, accepted. And I was personally honoured to have a speech on 26th of July. And I'm going to leave you with a speech about the newly created framework called UADTT, which is by the way also not stoned on that new framework, kind of framework with regard to sustainability and cross route trade and supply chain. So I can't do more of this depending on the availability of people involved in the IBCC without international institutions. And I think it would be great to see how blockchain and DLP is being created to that stage, how they can cross path. So that was just the very first thought. You see, I'm on a personal level, I'm really satisfied with how we take this deal in and off in 2022. And I'm just so curious to see what comes next. I've always thought that what was missing within SIG or project, I'm not a tech guy. So I'm not a courier, I'm not an archivist, sadly. I'm just a former trade finance professional who didn't even work in that. So I've always worked in corporates. We bring to see a very peculiar point of view on the matter. So this next call, I think, and I hope you agree with me, Tom, Rih, Alicia, next step should be, let's say, enabling SIG to deliver projects on multiple level, whether it's white papers and we've got custom days, whether it's about code, whether it's about something else in pre that can contribute to the advancement of the industry. I mean, digital trade funds, social supply chain, slash funds. So let's see the mindset. I mean, if I have to summarize 2022 was a year change, which always makes good. And I hope 2023 to be a sort of good follow up this year is a very important one. So I'll be back to you, Tom, to give your perspective as much as I would love to have a least one and a least one. Good. Thank you, Andrea. And I will share my perspective. I also am glad that we joined forces here, supply chain, trade finance for those on the phone, us co-chairs, we've been getting on the phone every week, Tuesday for a half an hour to kind of plan things out and see where we go. So the good news is we're we're we're still getting together. We're still committed to supply chain and the use of block chain, specifically hyper ledger in all its forms to drive some success here. We've certainly had some challenges. And this year with we got trade with trade lens announcement yesterday. There's opportunity for us to go forward and we'll figure out the new ways to we learned something. Now we'll figure out new ways to address this, as Andrea mentioned. Two things I want to mention the the webinars, yes, have been very good. And we'll continue those in the in the following year. And I want to say I'll thank you, the hyper ledger folks for David and Thomas and Igor for getting those out onto YouTube so that they get a bigger audience with things. And Andrea, it's been great on LinkedIn, getting the news out. And then he's even putting together a weekly news update if you haven't seen it, subscribe on the wiki. And he has a list of links where you can get more news and views on what's happened in supply chain and trade finance and blockchain. And then lastly, as Andrea said, one of the things that we've really focused on actually not lastly. Sorry, before lastly, I want to also thank Alisha Noel for joining. She's on this call here. She's been joining Andrea, myself and Eric is kind of a co-chair. So we should probably make you formal, Alisha, in some way. But it's been great to have your voice on a regular basis, helping helping us lead the charge here. So I want to acknowledge that. And then lastly, again, as Andrea said, this idea of a project getting beyond webinars, what more can this group do across corporate members, across coders out there, as well as folks who have business savvy in this area and be able to combine that into something that can provide value across hyperledger, using be able to use hyperledger most effectively, but also more importantly, a blockchain within supply chain and trade finance. So I'm going to stop with that, Eric and Alisha, if there's any fast comments you want to have. Well, you're welcome to put in or if there's anybody else out there, we'll we'll grab those and then we'll talk a little bit about 2023. I think it's been great having the two things combined. This is Alisha, for those of you who don't know me, because there is so much overlap and trade finance and supply chain management are so entwined. So bringing these perspectives together has been really helpful. And I think increases the potential for our long term impact. There's some great things we're looking forward to in next year. I love how everyone's really excited about white papers and projects. And one thing we've spoken about before and that's coming to my mind as I'm looking at the Sig Wiki page is the scope, because one thing we're trying to do is get more involvement from corporate members. And Tom and Andrea and Eric and I have been are reaching out and we wanted to get their opinions and their perspective so that we can make sure that the work that we are doing here is relevant and helpful to them. And as we interact more with them, we're looking to really rewrite the scope on the Wiki to make it relevant and current. So that's something I'm looking forward to in in the next year. Good. Thanks, Alicia. Anybody else out there wants to talk a little bit about 2022? OK, going once, going twice, going three times sold. I'm not an auctioneer here, so we'll move on. OK, so let's move on then to 2023 planning and some of the discussion that we've had as co-chairs and see where the audience that's here right now, what their thought is. So first off, Alfonso, thank you for presenting a few weeks ago, maybe it's two weeks ago, actually, and what's happening with supply chain projects in Latin America. And we've talked about as a follow-up from that, that we'll have a workshop where we'll dive into more detail, again, following along the lines of what value add can we provide for members, non-members, interested parties in Latin America, and specifically around supply chain. So straight to interrupt you, Tom, as Danielle, I would like to speak, I see she raised her hands. I was going to let Tom finish and then I was just going to jump in before we go into 2023. For those of you on the phone who don't know me, I'm Dingela Marbosa. I'm the executive director of the Hyperledger Foundation. It has been a pleasure to actually watch the work that Tom and Andreas and Alicia and others have done. Eric here on the phone as well over the last year to bring these two groups together. So I want to just thank everybody. I know that this is hard work. Thank you for the kind words on staff, including David Boswell and Tomas Ege in supporting the SIG and the Moves. But I know it's been hard work and I do think it positions this special interest group in a better way for 2023 and beyond. And it warms my heart, Alicia, when I hear and I touched base with Tomas on this as well. When I hear SIGs say, you know, we need to take a look at the charter and make sure that we're addressing the needs of the community, the greater community as well. And we're here, you know, I just want to say that we're here to support, you know, the outputs and the work products that the special interest team, a group here wants to have. So I just wanted to thank everyone. I've been listening to the supply chain SIG meetings, you know, randomly on my walks down to the beach on Saturday and Sunday. So I want to say it's been really great to listen and to see it mature. So so thank you all. And specifically, you know, Tom, Tom, because I worked very closely when it was the supply chain special interest group, I was kind of his main point of contact. So yes, thank you. Good deal. Thanks, Daniella. And a little little preview here. We got Daniella here. She's also agreed to join us on January 12th for the beginning and share a little bit about what they're thinking about it. Overall hyper ledger perspective for 2023. So thanks, Daniella. And we'll look forward to hearing more, you know, that all these ideas are going to percolate over the holidays there and what you want to rock and roll with and guidance and all that kind of good stuff. So thanks. So let's go back here to 2023. So we got this Latin America workshop. The other thing that we as co-chairs talked about was the idea of focusing on a specific area of supply chain and trade finance each quarter to give ourselves a little bit more concentration. We also talked about it in a different flavor. Maybe we could do it in the flavor of we do geographic. Ultimately, what we decided is let's focus on a specific area. And so to kick off, we're thinking trade finance for first quarter. We're certainly interested in speakers. Certainly we have our networks. But we're looking for a broadening. We all have lots of contacts out there. If we probably looked at our LinkedIn overlap, there's maybe 50% overlap or something like that. So if trade finance, we're pretty set with that. I mean, I guess we could change it. But right now we're pretty set with it. So really we're looking for folks that are on the phone here or on the line, as well as people listening, recording, getting to us, putting something out there on the wiki with suggested speakers for 2023 after the 12th of January. We're planning on keeping the same schedule every other week on Thursdays at noon Eastern. And we'll adjust those if a speaker is from Asia, Pacific, Japan, where we'll do something at night or morning if we need to do that. So right now that's what our plan is for going forward in 2023, first quarter. So any thoughts? Anybody want to either say, yeah, that sounds good or, and I have some speakers or have some thoughts on what could be Q2 and beyond because we don't have to stay at a high level. We can get into some very specific thoughts around a focus for a quarter. And we've even gone down that. I think we had one on tokenization. Alicia, I'm just going to remember what other ones we had besides tokenization. You're going to bring up the specs. Give me a minute. So potential quarterly topics, minimizing the trade finance gap, tokenization, digital credentials, going beyond track and trace, interoperability, which we know is a really important topic. But we'd love to add to that list. We want to know what's important to everybody so that we're planning things that are relevant. And of course, all of those, even if they're cross industry, we're looking to have a focus on how does this actually work in supply chain and trade finance, not just kind of generic in general. Hey, Tom, we have a couple of hands that are up right now. Hey, I just walked into the office. Hi. Eric. Hi, Eric. You look like you're outside in snow or something. I was. It is snowing. So Daniela, you're walking down to the beach thing, not appreciated. It's rainy today. I think I am. I had his stand up first before. First of all, I would like to thank you so much. I have been following the hyper leisure seek, starting with the trade finance and including the supply chain. I'm so much, much more glad to be a kind of the partner and the follower of your seek. And the first of all, except my kind good words to your seek. And just I want to add one of the little things that for the next year, all what we, what our seek is doing, always touching the providers. All the providers has somehow developed a kind of services aiming to reach to the end users. Well, what I'm trying to tell you that let's next year for the next year, try to try to reach to the end user directly. For the ones who are using the tools who has been running on the hyper leisure fabrics, let's say, and that's why their experiences which they will share with us is so much important to me because all we have been gathering information from the providers and the, but I don't have the any kind of the measurement tool in my hand to make the kind of the understanding what the end user is thinking about their solution. Is it bad? Is it too bad? Or is it nice to have? Or it is really good to have a perfect solution. That's why it's a kind of the journey and the journey will help us to understand the hyper leisure families will bring us to the next levels. And that's why all I can tell you that, thank you so much for going further. I guess Alfonso from the Latin America side is here. I couldn't join the last webinar and it's really perfect. I am so much proud to understand what they have done in Latin America. That is my aim, that's my target to make it in a similar way in Turkey. That's why Alfonso, I would like to thank you once again, once more and your support to Latin America within the hyper leisure family is really great. And I will ask your assistance for the coming days. Thank you, thank you. I wish you the all the best for the next year. You're very kind, must happy to help. I'm here, anything you need, happy to help. Thank you, thank Alfonso. Good, all are welcome and all will help, all that's good. I end, let me just paraphrase what I thought you had and then we'll go to Daniela here. What I thought I heard you said is that it was great having the providers, the software companies, the folks who have made the application and hear what they're doing. I'd like to hear more from the, what benefits they got. What an end user said, oh, hallelujah, this is great or you know, hey, this is okay, but you know, it didn't quite do it for me, right? Yeah, it's quite, I'm sure, but I want to listen to their stories indeed. Yeah, yeah, good, good. And I think there's a little bit of hope that corporate members might be able to provide some of those kind of things. And as you can imagine, it's like in a reference, right? It's gonna be challenging, but I love your thought there because that's where the rubber meets the road there. Okay, good, I'm glad we understand it. Daniela, all yours. I was wondering where, Alicia, I think where should we put recommendations or suggestions on the Wiki, on this page, on this meeting page? You can certainly put them on the meeting page, but if there are ideas you have, we'd love to hear them now so that we can discuss, ask questions, et cetera, and always feel free to send notes over the email, over the listserv. Yeah, okay, yeah. So one thing, and I signed up for and I missed the webinar was the recent FDA tech new standards to improve food system transparency. And this, I think comes out of some of the work that Frank Yanis was doing when he was over at Walmart. And it looks like, you know, the FDA and also the Commerce Department in the US specifically should be people that we get closer with and maybe have them come and do presentations here or maybe we can provide some sort of guidance for them. But I do think government sector should be something that we, and I certainly can try to help connect these dots. So with the FDA and then the Commerce Secretary in the US and I suspect in Europe, there's similar agencies and stuff that we can reach out to as well. But I'd like to see maybe a theme around government relationship so they can come and do their presentations. And I don't know if that's something that is already on your agenda. So just my comment. That would be great. And certainly I've already had some interaction with Frank and I'm happy to follow up with him, but I'd love to have that as something because there is a lot going on in government. And I don't know nearly as much about it as I'd like. And maybe we can map out which agencies around the world are working on which things. What we found just at the Hyperledger Foundation and some other project initiatives, like for example, with central bank digital currencies is that we made a lot of connections with central banks and different authorities like BIS and MAS around the world to come together to talk about the topic of open source and why open source in that space. And I think we might have the same opportunity specifically to food supply chain. That would be great. And by the way, because to see how it works, you see how things come together with CBDCs around the world in terms of cross-border payments, that would be under the perspective of trade finance that was the major thing. You understand how this new technology fits into traditional one and how it helps to improve it. That would be great. And by the way, it would be if good, good, good things do under the view of the British side as it would help the financial markets to cross-border the trade finance supply chain. That would be the highlight of the vision in my view. Okay, good. I see a comment there. It looks like from Alfonso that agrees with Daniela and we're good to map it out. So good suggestion on the government there. Anybody else here that wants to share kind of a thought either on a certain part of the market that we should go after, a certain topic that would be of interest, folks that we should talk to, be talking with or try to talk with. This is all about making the news here as opposed to sharing the news. We can share the news for sure. Here's what's happening, but it'd be nice if we can actually make something happen here through the supply chain and trade finance group. I have another suggestion and I don't know, Tom, you and I talked about this. I don't know if it's been talked about in as this groups combined around grid, hyperledger grid, the grid project. And have there been any interactions in the last six, eight months with that project? There have not been. So that could be another area that, if there's code that's there and is available and it has some value, we could try to publicize it as well as where do we take it next? See, I would welcome maybe facilitating some joint conversation that we could maybe brainstorm on how we could do better together in 2023. And for those of you who are not familiar with hyperledger grid, it is an active project. Some of the backing firms that are working with that grid project include Cargo and Target, where they were even doing some code contributions as well. But yeah, it'd be great in 2023 to get them and involved or at least brief us on what's going on, brief this group on what's going on. So I'll take that as an action item. Good. Good. I'm not taking any more action items, Tom. No, just kidding. You know, I'm good. Just kidding. Now, Danielle, I'm curious, are they mostly working on the supply chain management end of it? Are they doing anything for a finance related? How are they using supply chain management? Great, thank you. Good. So I'm gonna throw out a couple of things for Q2 and beyond. I'll throw out one thing and then we'll see if there's not much interest. I personally, I'm very interested in governance and I think one of the reasons why there's been a challenge with some of the early blockchain implementations is the, I don't so wanna say a lack because I don't think people are trying to keep people out, but just probably more structure around or charter around creating governance, not just in creation time, but also in operation time. And so there's actually gonna be a presentation by Savita Farkuri. She heads up a group that I'm part of and IEEE where we're creating a standard for blockchain governance. And so she'll be presenting, I think on the Hyperledger Finance Group somewhere in December here. Sherwood's gonna, no, actually it's a climate action in a county group, she's gonna be presenting. He's gonna put something out in our wiki here. That could be an area where we could spend some time around governance and we got some cases where things didn't work out. And so we can use some of that knowledge potentially, maybe even some of yours, Sophia, specifically as well as others to help us figure out how does this work better in the future here? So throwing that out. I know that ISO also published a few governance documents lately. I sit on the TC307 side of things ISO. So governance documents are coming out and that'd be a good topic to talk about. Okay, good, good. I mean, certainly it's near and dear in my heart. We've agreed the IEEE and TC307 that we should continue to go forward and not try to combine forces here because maybe that's done in the future but we figured let's do two different groups here and learn contact at least with it. So that's good. Anybody else on governance? Yay or nay? Always up for governance. Always up for governance? Always up for governance. Come on, Rector and Rations, former academic. Governance is really important. Governance is how you say you're going to do things and it's really important and it often gets short-shripped. Yes, yes. So anybody else? I can't see everybody is going through. Let's hear some words, Peter. Yes. You know, I kind of distrust him in everything. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry Alfonso, I was staying in the room but I think we've gone to say the same thing too. Sorry, go ahead. I agree with the governance issue, Tom. And I just wrote in the chat. We're working also with TOIP Trust Over IP Foundation within the Linux Foundation. And they came up with a beautiful model which is a stack of technical layers and governance layers. And when you put the two together, it's extremely powerful. So Trust Over IP Foundation, it's a sister foundation. Now with mother Linux Foundation. I use the feminine because in Spanish, son las fundaciones. Good deal. Okay, so there's an option there. And then I'll, anybody else before I go forward, before I say anything else? One, it would also be a beer, Sophia. Yeah, Tom, I'll just jump in quickly and I agree on the government side. Any, we've obviously had a lot of learning with Raidlands and I'd be really happy to share some of my personal learnings and some of the things I've seen at any point in time. So yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I also agree with that, Tom. And I think it's important. Well, also because well, all what happened with FDX, actually was a real governance issue in there. I think that, well, beyond everything else. And also I would like to add and, you know, in governance in blockchain, how does it work could be a very good thematic and also Sophia, maybe you can share something if you want, I think that one thing that we have been seeing this year talking about with Raid and out Raidlands, I find both news terrible. And, but one of the things is that, well, what's the case for blockchain consortia? I think that's, well, what I think is that consortia, it's not working well around blockchain. And Matt, it's not because of the concept of the consortium that it's around the blockchain, but also it's how the governance work between them. So in the case of we trade, you had 16 banks and at the end they couldn't raise money that was really crazy. So in the news of Raidlands, you can see, well, it's in the commercial viability. I think that it has nothing to do with that. You know, Merck's the biggest shipping company in the world doing something that they want. They have all the insights of the industry. They're the bigger player. So I don't think that's the case. I think we're missing something and we can dig more into that. I'm sorry, my camera was off. I didn't realize, so. Don't worry. I agree, Juan. We discussed this, you see, on a private side during our chat when we met together. We should use different surveys and I also agree with you that way. It's a problem of governance. So by the way, to add more substance to this, we have some of Raidlands's big governance that we should involve. I know a guy. I don't mean for Luganti. We should be maybe trying to involve him in whatever we see as well. Yeah, and I also want to support the motion of Ihan. I'm pronouncing it well. Yeah, no problem, no problem. Yes, I have a question. Yes, because I think it's very important, the user perspective. And also, well, I am a startup. And I like to think right now as a startup and I think we should also go to, like this group has to go to a broader audience and see more use cases of user experience and what is going on on that side. Many people see in the industry the blockchain and that blockchain technology, it's a solution in search of our problem instead of how can we solve real problems in certain industry. In this case, in this flight chain, problems are like infinite if you go into one by one. So I also want to support that. And I think that bringing real use cases where the group can, well, actually help into go very deep into the problem that's a real good approach, in my opinion. So thank you, that's my thought. Thanks, Juan. So we're at 15 minutes before the end of the call here. So what I'm going to suggest is any other ideas that pop in your mind as you're talking with other people, please point them towards the Wiki and either they can edit it and put in their thoughts or just throw out something into the listserv or the email list so that others can see it and we can turn it around, et cetera, here over the next month or so. With that as an intro, Alisha, do you mind talking a little bit about the SIG Wiki and what we're thinking about here? Sunshine, you've been doing some really good work with it. Thank you. So I'm not sure how many people actually go to the SIG Wiki. It's on the Hyperledger Wiki site and it's a great resource for information about any SIG, any group, anything going on within the Hyperledger Foundation. Our site right now, we have the main homepage with basic introduction, some information about meetings, we have, if you look at the page tree on the left, information about all our general meetings, we have the weekend charts, which is Andrea's wonderful weekly news roundup. We just added a new page specifically for SIG members so that people can learn a little bit more about the other members and I want to here ask all of you to go to that page and put a little bit of something, a little bit of something about yourself so we know who else is participating in the SIG and this will be especially useful as we start looking at projects to think about who has which knowledge and skills so that we're not committing to projects that we don't have the ability to do and so that we're doing things to where we within the SIG actually have that information. I'm wondering based on our current conversation, I'm thinking it might be useful to add in a page that's specifically for SIG suggestions so that people who either aren't coming to the meetings but want to be more involved or those of you who just aren't comfortable speaking up during the meeting so that people can go and share that there and we'll see it. Does that make sense? Yeah, talking about suggestions by the way let me add one to the panelisha, you mentioned thank you so much the weekend charts, that was just my, the fruit of my SIG minds, let's say so. Unavailable of course and open suggestion from Iran because we love to change it, just an experiment and I want this to work because it can give the rise to see to some interesting use cases and we all know how important they are. So if something pops up in your mind, we suggest you can use the page that Alicia mentioned always available as free chat, straight talking so more than open to suggesting that respect as well. Good, thanks Andrea. And Alicia do you want to talk a little bit more also about ways to get involved here since yes we have co-chairs but there's other opportunities and we're looking to broaden our everyone's engagement here and also hopefully give ourselves more time to work on additional value add. Right, I know when I'm first starting out in group and I'm wanting to get involved sometimes it can be challenging how can I contribute? There are a lot of ways to get involved and the more people we get involved so that helps make the group more robust and then people can grow and this is actually about SIG governance as well making sure we have succession planning who are going to be future chairs who knows what's going on in the group so that we have people who are really knowledgeable about what's going on in the SIG. Some things if there's an event you want to see Alfonso was the one who suggested the Latin America workshop, we're very excited about that. There are speakers you want to see if you want to reach out get involved that's really helpful. Meeting notes, every time we have a meeting it's useful to have the notes taking attendance. I spent the first several minutes of this meeting taking attendance. Fairly easy, all you're doing is going down through the Zoom and writing in the names into the Wiki page for this event. So that's something simple if someone wants to help with that. Event flyers, every time we have an event flyer gets made so that we can send it out over the listserv so that Andrea can post it to LinkedIn. That if you're comfortable using PowerPoint only takes a couple of minutes because there is a hyperledger template, which is great. Another thing as Andrea said helping him with his news roundups making updates to the Wiki. I am also a Wikipedia editor so if you are already familiar with updating Wikis it's fairly simple. I'm sure that there are other things other ways for people to get involved that just are not coming up in my mind. So if there's something you think would add value please let us know because like I said we want to get more people actively involved. Is there anything that anyone here right now is thinking that they'd like to help with? Crickets, okay. Well, please let us know. Drop us an email or speak up during the next meeting. Well actually I talked with Andrea before and also with Eric and so I'm open to help and to interconnect with the ecosystem I am. And so I'll be happy to do that. I think that it's a very important mission for the community and for all the ones that are here to help to spread the adoption of it. I think that that's a very important mission. That's why if you see a big guy like trade lengths falling down you cannot feel happy because of that. So that's my thought. Totally big disappointment from my side. Yes, totally. So from my side I'll be happy to help and to share whatever I can. And so I'm a nerd in these areas. So it's a bit more. I will talk to you later about that. No, it's when you want my friends so it's pretty straight talk you can see between Portugal and Italy that there's quite a direct connection. So anytime you like you just need to drop me a message and I'll be there. So move in, we'll then let's do so when you know. Totally, totally. Yeah, thank you Andreas. Good, you're welcome. And we might reach out to out here because the more the merrier and it's again the more we spread the peanut butter or spread whatever your favorite thing is on bread. The more we can focus on getting the word out there as well as working on some of the projects which I want to spend the last seven minutes of our time on here projects. So I mentioned this earlier and Eric maybe I'll come your way for some thoughts because you and I have had this conversation for over a year that, you know how do we add more beyond doing the webinars and some of the things we've talked about here. Specifically within supply chain and trade finance and then more specifically with some of the hyper ledger projects here. And so you see here, we have some ideas, you know there could be something around very specific use cases out there that we want to develop. There could be something around, you know okay, we'll have, let's just create a white paper around some topic so that the world is more educated so it's a little bit different form than a webinar but maybe something that has a little bit broader applicability potentially. I was talking with somebody front who is part of the group and they have a food traceability solution and so they said they'd be willing to work on some white paper if that's what the group decides upon. We talked earlier about Cody. We talked, we've talked, you know okay, what like grid is there something where there's coders who'll be willing to spend some of their time on a project that they know would have value for both themselves as well as maybe their organization out there. And then lastly, there's some standards certainly within this space, GS1 is a huge part of what happens in this space but there's other standards that probably need to happen out there. I mean, the bit of folks they tried, right? Blockchain and logistics and that didn't quite work out. So there's maybe there's something else we can do around that out there and standards or some other place something in trade finance that needs to work beyond the electronic bill and lady out there. Eric, you wanna add any thoughts to that? I know Alfonso has his hand raised for the moment let's go Alfonso. Sure, sure, we could, we could continue the challenge with it this year. Okay, well, the idea we've talked about the idea of markets for innovation. Markets for innovation, it's an idea that MIT has in the MIT Solve program. And it's a challenge as was our hyper-related challenge but it's a challenge that connects participants with the market. Could be the members of the corporation could be some local startups could be a forum where we have a challenge and that's what the workshop what you call the Latin American workshop. The workshop is the first phase of the market for innovation. It might last four or six months we have to decide it but the challenge it's located it's within a domain problem trade and finance, commerce, supply chains within a regional context, Latin America and it's a place where challenges can be made into reality. Good, thanks for sharing that thoughts. Anybody else have a thought? You know, one thing I think. Yeah, there is a new comment by the way in the chat by Sophia, so maybe she won't say we're here because she's stating something really interesting than my perspective with small immediate mass, small immediate enterprises. Sophia, would you like to articulate into that? I think it's really insightful what she wrote down in the chat. Yeah, sure. So I mean, going back to the point about governance. Yeah, 100% agree on governments but there is just a part of me that thinks I worry that we would prioritize governance too much and the focus should be more on finding a solution or a solution that works for customers and also the supply chain participants that you're trying to reach and the reality is that when you're talking about supply chains where are they mostly based? Where, which countries are the largest exporters and what's the political system like in those countries? What are the barriers towards trade digitization and they exist and they're not necessarily possible to overcome at the moment. So we saw particularly with Bangladesh and Pakistan as well as the same where for our bills of lading they rely on letters of credit. So introducing trade finance. Banks need to be involved in that chain which adds a layer of complexity but at the moment, I mean, it enforces the need for paper documentation when we try to digitize that and yeah, yeah, make it work digitally. We need every member of every participant of that supply chain to be on that same digital network and that includes the banks but when we think about banks generally we probably tend to think about the larger banks. HSBC and Citibank for example were part of trade lens, the trade lens banking network but that's on an international scale and it doesn't go down to in one particular country would HSBC and Citibank be able to operate on the network but also the fact that for Bangladesh, for example, the banks that are used by the suppliers in particular are the small local banks that nobody's heard of and there are hundreds, thousands potentially. So governance, I don't know what relevance it has there. I mean, it's obviously necessary but the reality is that it won't solve the problems. So the paraphrase your thoughts would be use case first that provides value and governance needs to be layered in there in order to make sure that value is realized is kind of what I'm hearing you say. I know we're coming up on... Yeah, I just want to raise the idea do we want to make governance the focus for Q1 of 2023 because we've had a lot of discussion about governance today and it seems like people are really passionate. Do we want to make governance our Q1 topic? I don't know, I'm quite relaxed and I agree with Sophia. Governance is important but we have to think maybe on inclusivity, I don't know how to define that taking care of small issues you're seeing in the picture. So I would go first with that that maybe second can be governance. I totally agree with Sophia and maybe we can expand this discussion early 2023. Sophia, if you agree, you've got me on your net what's the end of the time you want to do it drop on a call and go deeper into this there's no way to do that. So I also agree with those forms before he lays what a marketplace for innovation that could be really a winning move to set that up. Okay, so we got some good thoughts here. I guess I'd like to rather than continue to here we like to get done within an hour. I think there's a lot more discussion that's going to go over into January 12th session as well as hopefully as you said Andrea kind of independently here over the next month is I guess where I'd like to suggest we take this next. I mean rather than trying to slam in in the next five minutes and make some ultimate decisions. Folks, what do you guys think? Nobody wants to say. Okay, so then since no one's going to say, well, we'll go. They're all afraid Tom, they're all afraid. What are you doing here? Committing to stop us. No one's going to be afraid. No one want, you know, we like it all tied together in a nice pretty bow, you know, here. Okay, here's exactly what we're going to do. We know what we're going to do. And it feels like there's some more thinking, some more talking, some more ideas that we need to percolate a little bit here because when we say we're going to go in a direction we kind of would like all of us to say, yeah, that's really going to be some value there on it. And I'm not sensing that we're there yet. So that's why I'm suggesting let's let this percolate. We got some work and then January 12th where we have the opportunity to maybe take some of the ideas that percolate over the next month and really start bringing it together very closely. And maybe we can put some provisional thing out over the next before the holidays that then we can say, yeah, here's one of two things we're going to do in first quarter. Maybe that's the way that it doesn't turn into, we look at 50 different things and we don't come to conclusion because we do want to come to conclusion here. Okay. That's great. All right, I need to run it off. Thank you. Have a happy holiday for everybody who I don't see in the next few weeks. Sounds good. Okay, everybody. Great work. Thank you for having a thought. Let's get your ideas out there. And welcome to do calls. If you want to join our call next Tuesday, actually, you know what? Maybe I'll put it out there in the wiki for further conversation. We're going to continue that. Absolutely. We'll be great to ask somebody else to open with us. Okay. I'll do that for next Tuesday. I think it's 10 30 central time that you're welcome to join. Yeah. Okay. So Tom, I think we're coming to the end. We're in top of the hour. We've seen it actually. Thank you. It's time for let's say Christmas greetings and we say for the new year. And on my side, I mean, we'd love to thank you all, especially you, Tom, Marie, Alicia for sharing time with me. We'll do it on a weekly basis. I would love to thank Ihan. He's a good friend of mine. He's a new, also fun, he's a good friend. So the community hopefully will grow as it has grown over the last two years. And seriously, guys, enjoy this Christmas period with your family, all the love and work to all you and enjoy it. See you in 2023, guys. Beautiful. Have a great rest of the day, everybody. God, happy holidays. We don't see each other. Happy new year, happy new year. Merry Christmas. Bye. In advance, bye-bye. Bye, everybody. Bye, Ihan. Bye-bye. Bye, Sofia. Bye, Sofia. Nice to hear you, Sofia. Bye-bye.