 Alright, so hello everyone. Again, I'm going to just repeat what I said before. Welcome to a discussion, a panel discussion about Vermont's gun policy. And I'm joined tonight with a few guests, which is great. But I first want to introduce myself. I am State Representative Emma Mulvaney Stanek, I use she her pronouns. I live in Burlington, Vermont's Old North End. I represent Chittenden 17 which just got renumbered that you speak Chittenden 62 for anyone who pays attention to those numbers, but it's half of the old north end and half of the new north end in Burlington. I've served for one term, and I serve on the House Commerce and Economic Development Committee, however gun policy is certainly one that interfaces all aspects of policy, and that's why I'm excited to host this event, not only for folks in my district but for folks who want to tune in and watch this later on. So with that, I want to turn over and introduce our three panelists tonight, just to ask each person to just spend a minute or so introducing yourself and your organization. And then what we have planned tonight is a conversation to kind of go over over what's happening in the state, what's happening federally. And then to also talk a little bit about what's possible going forward, including what your organizations are are working on, including a couple questions that as people have questions going as we get going, feel free to put them in the chat and we will will bring those up. Okay, so with that, who would like to kick it off among our panel to introduce yourself grace do you want to go first you're sort of to my left. Yeah, I definitely can. My name is Grace I use she her pronouns. I am a UVM grad I graduated class of 2021. So just recently but I am originally from Newtown Connecticut, and my interest in gun violence prevention started about 10 years ago, following Sandy hook. I offer a personal perspective but also I studied political science in college. So I want to do this with my career, and we're writing legislation for gun sense for right now for this upcoming session that I hope will do a lot for Vermont's gun laws. Okay, so really happy to have you here and have gun sense for my in the conversation. Let's go to the other other Vermont are and then we'll introduce our national panelists guests, the visa, you want to introduce yourself. I'm sorry. We lost Ali sorry, Ali will be back we have someone from mom's man action we said you're from from vote mama who's the next one so I'll let Ali back in. We'll go to, we'll go to Luba first from vote mama. Hi, everyone. I'm going to go to Charlie, I use she her pronouns. I am a mom of three, I have a two year old six year old and eight year old and the founder and CEO of vote mama. We are the first organization in the country dedicated to electing progressive moms up and down the ballot. And on our foundation side, we are working to break down the cultural and structural barriers that moms face and working with legislators to pass family friendly legislation. And this is the Democratic nominee for Congress in New York second district back in 2018. And running with small children is a completely different experience and we need more moms at office we don't have enough, we don't have people who understand how the policies that they're working on actually affect our lives every day. And that is what we're working to change we're working to make it easier for moms to run and I'm making it easier for them to serve an office. We're all being here. And now Ali, we were just doing just brief introductions, you were there and then you were in there so welcome back and Ali do you want to explain just introduce yourself and just a sentence or two about your organization. And hold on let me I'm close to a second. Great. Sorry about that our internet was unstable so I tried to restart in it seems to work but if I cut out please let me know. My name is Ali Briar I issue your pronouns and the communications team lead volunteer for mom's demand action for the Vermont chapter. And we're committed to building a diverse movement of power to enact change at all levels with the single mission of preventing gun violence. I got involved in this work. Back in January, and really, it was part of the reason was I wanted to make sure what happened to me doesn't happen to other people we had to leave our homes because of a violent armed neighbor who threatened to murder us with guns, and there was just no intervention so it was really problematic and it really highlighted how lax our gun laws are and how we are not protecting people. So just want to say thanks for having us here today and and having this important discussion. Thanks Ali. And I think it just shows the both. Well all three of you actually for that matter but the personal story and connection to this policy is one of the major reasons why it's so critical to have this conversation. And before we go on Kelly just because I'm in middle speaking can you message that person just to give us their name before we let them in. Okay. And so just moving forward to maybe just toggling between Ali and grace as the Vermonter is on the call, can you kick us off with just a little bit of understanding I know this was helpful for me when I sort of dove into it a few weeks ago. Just to understand where is Vermont right now in terms of our gun policy and what are some basics that you think folks because remember this is being recorded so what if what are some pieces of information that folks should probably know about the status of our current gun laws. I'll get to where would need to be but like just where are we right now in terms of Vermont. We're not far enough. For sure, Vermont has one of the most lax gun laws in the country and we have Governor Scott has vetoed a lot of gun legislation that gunsense personally has brought to the table as well as other legislators and it becomes frustrating because a lot of the people a lot of legislators support this issue and want gunsense or gunsense laws and it is just not being seen on the level of the governor and we're trying to push for just basic common sense laws that include safe storage, waiting to be protected. There is a loophole within the Charleston loophole within our background check law that we're trying to erase as well as get rid of ghost guns which have become an up and coming problem. Specifically, there's problems in Connecticut with it and I think that Vermont should kind of get ahead of that as well. There hasn't been a specific case of ghost guns in the state that I personally know of but that doesn't mean that it can't happen so that's something that our organization can just put on our legislative agenda. So just for me as a new legislator last term, could you define the Charleston loophole is give a little more context on that and, you know, again, I think I had some wild assumptions that we were further, at least in my perspective along than we are so do you mind just defining that for folks. Sorry, my connection is being odd right now. It's basically that it allows gun dealers to sell to people without background checks. I'm sorry that I don't have more clearer instructions I'm not sure specifically like why that is but it ends up. A lot of people end up slipping through these cracks that Vermont needs to fill because this is allowing for more suicide rates and more gun violence in our towns. Yeah, I wish I had more specifics but I'm sure I could just look it up and get back to you. Thanks Grace and I just I think when we can define terms that's just helpful, I mean for folks to two or not in the every day of understanding gun violence and I know that and perhaps Ali will go here that we did do a little tiny bit on this in the last legislative session in here in Vermont to expand the number of days essentially trying to close that loophole a little bit more I think we wanted to do something much bigger 30 days versus what we landed on with seven days. It used to be three days in terms of when people would be able to be given a gun if their background check didn't come back but Ali maybe you can just build off of what Grace offered up and anything that you thought you think folks would benefit from knowing about again the current state of Vermont laws in terms of guns. Yeah, I'd say we've made some very, you know, small steps towards you know the policies that we want to see and we really do have some amazing gunsense champions gunsense policy champions in the legislature and so I really want to commend a lot of the work that they did this last legislative session because they really did do a lot of the championing and then we see Governor Scott you know veto some of these really just common sense gun violence prevention measures you know we shouldn't have any loopholes like the Charleston loophole. And if, you know, explaining a little bit more basically in three days if they do not if the background check doesn't come back because we have a federal background check system in Vermont so it goes through the federal database, which lots of issues there but I won't get into it. Now at least. And so it allows three day. Anything after three days they just get the gun. And oftentimes, after those three days is actually because they're doing more research or things like these people are often denied. We wanted to extend it permanently Governor Scott said, I think he changed to seven days in the in the compromise. And he just goes to show that we really need to make sure we're electing more gunsense candidates to override some of these vetoes if that if that happens again. A big thing we've also been focusing on is the extreme risk protection orders or they're called her post. And in these, a law enforcement official competition, a judge decision court the court directly to have guns removed in cases of where the person might be going to harm themselves or others. Again, we would like to see that strengthen because you know there's so many issues with law enforcement. You know people might not feel safe contacting them could be dangerous causing trauma you know especially with our systemically marginalized communities or communities that have been over policed it really doesn't feel like a great option to call police and those conditions to have guns removed so you know we're really hoping to strengthen that and see family members neighbors really you know healthcare providers be able to have that initiative to there's yeah there's definitely a lot more work to be done suicide is a huge issue in Vermont we are we're eighth in 18th sorry in the country and it is like the eighth highest rate of suicide deaths that we've ever had and so when we're talking about gun violence prevention we also need to talk about funding a lot of suicide prevention initiatives and we did get some big wins on that in the budget this past year with a lot of funding going towards suicide prevention. And then I just would be remiss to say that when we talk about suicide prevention it's not just about mental health a lot of times people there's a myth that people who died by suicide diabetes who said because of a mental health issue, and oftentimes it could be because of relationship issues trauma sexual violence really housing eviction, you know other sorts of violence that we see in our society so when we're talking about that we need to be talking about it through the whole span of things, providing housing providing culturally sensitive health care mental health care. And really thinking about this in a holistic view because gun violence prevention is not just talking about the guns themselves but everything that creates the the atmosphere or the culture around it. Thank you so much Emily and thanks Grace I think it's it's so helpful to get a handle on you know where we are as a state and and and we're going to hear from a second year from Luba around the national context and how we either compare or or the also on the federal level of what we might be facing but I, I was very surprised about sort of the possession right the ability to get your hands on a gun and how overly easy it seems at least for my, for my point, and while we have some light touches around an age requirement of 21. The passing of guns through families that you know just it's there's no license required there's no permit required there's no training required, and same thing for gun dealers it just seems like a ticking time bomb on many levels and so I really look forward to it we're going to have some conversations to get deeper into this in a moment but just in terms of setting the context. I'm wondering if you could now give us a little sense of from a national level since you're joining tuning in from the national level to give us a little sense of like what how your organization is interface on this and just thoughts on where where things are and where they might be headed on a federal level. I want to say I'm super excited about the bipartisan safer communities act it's the first big piece of legislation that we've gotten passed in three decades and we have mom's demand to thank for that. I'm excited about it but it didn't go far enough. But what it does do I mean it funds crisis intervention, including red flag laws it closes the boy from the full it now has enhanced background checks for people between the ages of 18 and 21. In my opinion there should not be, there should be a ban until you're 21 that you cannot purchase a gun you can't purchase alcohol in this country until you're 21, but you can purchase a gun that I would like to see that go further, I would like to purchase a salt weapons ban, but this I mean this is the first federal law making gun trafficking a federal crime. So there's so much good that has come out of this bill, but there is so much more that we need to do. And I, you know, I am not an expert on gun violence, I am an expert on electing moms and every mom that we support is somebody who will fight for common sense gun regulation. And my kids do not know really what happens yet the first day that my daughter started kindergarten, Shannon Watts actually came to speak at an event for one of our candidates and we were speaking. And I told her I told her I'm terrified to send my kid to school. I don't want her to go through lockdown drills and we were talking about some of the research that every town has put out that talks about what it does to children to go through lockdown drills, how it's harming our kids how it's setting them up for a life of remembering this and having that community instilled in them. You know I graduated high school the year before Columbine happened. I never experienced this in school I have no idea how anybody can go to school and worry about this. The day after you've all day I dropped my kids off and I remember literally thinking my daughter's second grade classroom is pretty far away that my son's kindergarten classroom is the first classroom, and how much time will they have to hide. And that's what every mom is thinking about when they drop their kids off at school. And that needs to change and I literally I kid you not like 20 minutes before we got on the zoom. An old colleague of mine from Ghana sent me a video of Marjorie Taylor green talking to a British reporter saying well, you don't understand you're from across the pond we're Americans we love our guns. And she said please explain this to me. And I cannot. I cannot explain this obsession with guns that we have in this country. And until we elect more moms who are actually going to vote until we elect more people who understand that fear. It's not going to change. Mom's demand has been doing an absolutely amazing job holding all of these legislators accountable. We have people in office you have been bought by the NRA, you're owned by the NRA and who will vote because the NRA tells them to. And yet our children are going to school and I don't know if you guys saw recently, but there was some contraption I cannot remember what it was called but it was basically a vault that you had in case there's an active shooter. The fact that that exists in this country is mind boggling to me that the fact that our children are thinking about that even that they have to ask questions about this that we're putting our kids through this because we can't pass any common sense gun regulation it's it needs to change and we have to change who has to see the table. Mom's demand worked so hard to pass this bipartisan bill. And there are a lot of Republicans who still voted against it. And there are a lot of people who don't agree with it. And it's a start. It's a start but my fear is that people especially at the national level will think oh, we did something. We don't have to keep fighting for this now. It was a start and we need to make sure that we're continuing to fight to pass even stronger reform. We're the only country in the world that this happens in. Other countries do not have mass shootings at this level we have more guns than people in this country. But I think it's such an important context right and it really emphasizes why state government matters in this conversation. And if the federal government can't lead on moving us towards common sense community safety responsive and bold frankly gun gun policy that moves us away from this endless and senseless violence that we're continuing to live through, then the states need to step forward and that's goes to the state legislatures and it goes to the governor and I appreciate my Vermont panel panelists you're really naming the reality that we're facing here where one person, despite overwhelming support of the Vermont legislature trying to really move meaningful gun policy for it, can single handedly, you know, tank a bill that we've been trying to advance and then the threshold is pretty darn high to override that veto but still it's it all connects right it all connects there. So I'm wondering what's going to kind of the piece that I think I'm only going to have you start us off if it's okay because you mentioned you touched on mental health and suicide. Vermont struggles with this we struggle with and I'm looking I have a colleague on representative Tanya the host key who is a social worker and therapist so she knows this well. I'm trying to understand how gun laws intersect I talk a lot about intersectionality as a policymaker and how nothing's in isolation, we're structured to think about in isolation because our committees are like, you work on guns and just over here, you work on economics here you work on human services but it is so intersectional to really understand the impact of of gun policy, in this case on the world of mental health and the world of suicide so I'm wondering Ali if you could speak to how Vermont's going to intersect and you can even go like what else should we be thinking about and doing in the terms of of doing all that we can to support for mantras who live with mental illness, and making sure that we're, we're being supportive and understanding how guns are a piece of that. Yeah, yeah that's a great question and it really is everything touches each other you it's you can't look at any of these issues alone because none of them, you know all of them are part of this bigger system that we see. And so yeah we see in Vermont. A lot of suicides and many of them are suicide by gun about 87% of them. And this is largely because of one week, the lethality of guns so people who choose to use a gun for suicide will likely died because of the just highly the ality of it and easy access to them so you know we saw a waiting period bill vetoed couple, couple years ago, and this has been proven through lots of research and data that these actually help prevent suicides because a lot of times we see with suicide that, excuse me, that it can be just I don't want to use, I, you know it can happen sort of in the heat of your emotions when it's something that'll pass. And so when you have something so lethal in these sort of kind of split second decisions, it's it leads to a lot of, you know, death and trauma in our communities. And this is why we need to be thinking about this ERPO bill and getting extreme risk protection order bills expanded so that family members and friends are able to petition the courts to have guns removed in these situations, we need to be talking more about safe storage. That's really important to so that we're having even a buddy system so if you have a gun, 43% of Vermont households have guns so that's also another reason why we see such a high amount of suicides in Vermont. And so you know having a buddy to have hold on to your gun if you're feeling, you know, if you're in crisis or, you know, experiencing suicidal thoughts is really important to do that but then even broader than that how do we destigmatize these conversations around suicide because it is still such a stigmatized topic in our communities how can we have these conversations without being fearful that people will, you know not know how to respond or, you know really just dismiss it. And a lot of folks you know they don't really know how to have the conversations with people who they might be worried about. And so we kind of just tuck it under the rug. And this is really the situation where we just need to be talking about it more often to really think about how we can break some of these myths around suicide and stigma stigma with seeking treatment, you know a lot of it's mostly men who died by suicide and died by suicide with gun, and there's a lot of cultural issues wrapped up in that about being man, the idea of being manly and not being able to talk about your feelings or having feelings of suicide so how do we change. How do we change this culture around, you know, men and mental health. That's just a huge, a huge thing. And then, yeah as I had mentioned earlier, we really need to be thinking about this holistically so are we creating policies that provide safe and affordable housing are we creating policies that make sure people have all of their basic needs and more that they have, you know, stable work. They have all of these other sorts of things. So that they don't feel like suicide is the only option. So it's a big thing. And it's so interconnected, as you mentioned. Thanks Ali and I really appreciate you lifting up that those final points around making sure people meet their basic needs and the and the importance of understanding economic security is a huge portion of it I mean it's not. Just when people are in a mental crisis it's when they're in like an economic and structural crisis in their lives right and the easy access to guns does not help the matter and if we ice again if we if we think about things in isolation. We don't understand why our communities have gotten to this point we have to really understand that you know insecure housing as you're saying jobs that don't pay livable wages the stress of working two to three jobs I mean that all builds up and I'll just tell you as a working man with two jobs being a legislator and consulted on the side. It is bananas at times and it is the I mean any moment anyone who holds multiple stressors of time can really can just relate in your darkest moments, it's it's a hard space to hold and how to how do you release that pressure that stress that anxiety. So, grace to you just from the Vermont perspective first before I see if I want to add anything on the mental health pieces or anything else you want to add on to round out this conversation on the state level and mental health and guns. Yeah, I would say that Vermont is really lacking resources in the mental health department, and I work also with a mental health nonprofit in the state, and there's just a high turnover rate. There's a lack of funds xyz these are always something that we can fix and that will really help us in the end with mental health but as everyone has been saying intersectionality between gun laws and mental health is so important. Just as someone can seek out a gun to harm someone else they can also seek out a gun to harm themselves. And that is directly correlated to someone in a mental health crisis. And therefore, if we focus on mental health, as well as focus on these basic. We're emphasizing safe storage being very important in this case. When I think of a violent occurrence happening, as well as someone committing suicide there's a lot of steps. Prior to the event that we could have done something and something could have stopped them like a lock on a safe, it could be that very simple the just not having that access, as well as being having a 48 hour waiting time to really sit and think about is this the right decision, not getting the gun right away. That's very important. And these just basic common sense gun laws will just help us so much in the end. It's grace. Easy access piece. Luba do you want to add anything on a federal level either in the bill you're mentioning before if there's something you want to lift up or just in general about this, this some piece. I'm always listening to everybody right now just thinking about this it is literally easier you in a shorter period of time you can purchase a gun, then you can get an appointment with a therapist. It is so difficult to get an appointment with a therapist in this country. The first thing you have to do is call your insurance company or go online and figure out how to use the website. Call multiple different therapists and see if they're taking any new patients, or if they take your insurance. And if you're in a mental health crisis you don't have the ability to do that. Frankly, if you're not in a mental health crisis you don't have the time to do that. And I know many people who have just given up on finding a therapist because they don't have the time to do that. If you are able to find a therapist who is taking a new patient, you can't afford the co pays our insurance it's terrible we all knew this we cannot pass universal health care in this country. Yet, we can't pass universal background checks in this country. And it's this, this ridiculous system where you can't get into see a therapist, your health insurance doesn't cover mental health care. If you look down on there is such a stigma in this country in terms of actually protecting your mental health. And if you talk about it at work your employer will immediately judge you that is another stigma that we need to talk about. But you can go out and buy a gun. And it's just the reality of what's happening in this country and it needs to be addressed. And yet we have so many representatives at the federal level and frankly across the country at the state level as well. And that don't care. All they care about is their NRA dollars and until, until we really a mom's demand is doing such an incredible job organizing people, we need to get more people into office to get that issue, and who will fight for it. I am thrilled to see I mean the bipartisan safer communities that has had funding for mental health. It's great it's important, especially for the children who are traumatized how many children are traumatized by surviving a school shooting how many are traumatized by knowing somebody who didn't survive. How many are traumatized just by the lockdown drills by the active shooter drills. My mom is now 68 she retired two years ago, but she came home one day from school in tears, because she was in the middle of a lockdown drill. And this is a woman in her mid 60s and she had to, if the kids were in the hallway she had to lock the door, and she wasn't allowed to let them in and she was watching the kids to the window in the door, having a panic attack in the hallway. And she came home and she said all I could think about it if it were my children. And she just started to cry. If we're doing that to teachers, to people who have been teaching for decades, just the thought of having to go through a lockdown drill and watching what's happening to the kids that you teach. If we're doing that to teachers, what do you think it's doing to kids. So, this is, we're adding to the mental health crisis by just forcing them to go through the lockdown drills. We can't get therapy we can't pass gun laws. It's a mess. I'm sorry I do not have anything more positive or uplifting to say I am, I'm happy we've passed some legislation, but it's our country does not have its priorities straight. I, I welcome the real talk because that's why we want to that's why this this and so many more conversations need to continue to happen on repeat, and loudly to really start to move things as I met as we talked about earlier. If done on the federal level on the states then the states individually need to start to lead on this and, and I also am a mom of two small kids and the amount of trauma, which we're we have now for, I mean Columbine was 1998 or 99 I can't remember exactly the year but a whole almost two generations almost have now been raised as that is the context of this overarmed militarized experience in schools and public schools and and not to mention what it's doing to the staff it's almost a whole generation of staff as well who know nothing other than teaching or trying to be a school counselor or trying to be a principal or support staff. It's, it's really, it's, if you just said really actually think about it for a minute. It's, it can't believe how people can't feel some level motion and I think that's part of that just going back to mental health, the desensitizing that continually starts to happen just to survive is probably like a coping mechanism I'm going to look at this colleague Tonya there but it's probably like a natural coping mechanism but that is it is an unnatural response when we know we are the cause of it because we allow these, these policies to continue to go unchecked. So there's a question in the chat I want to it's this one sort of like tied to us I'm going to ask my question first and then the question from from Kelly. Again reminder for folks who are on the call tonight you can certainly put a question into the chat and I'll fold it in as we as we go. I was going to ask sort of leads into this one around how do we start to create safe communities specifically in our schools that we were just talking about, and public spaces of course, knowing that we're not immune in Vermont to violent culture, or the reasons that lead to mass shootings we we all know those of us who pay attention that even the stuff that finally gets the media we've had a lot of close, close calls, and one that I'm going to raise in a second from Kelly's earlier in Vermont, and there's many things we probably never even knew about right there just here in Vermont and we should obviously being concerned about what's happening outside of our borders as well as the state, but just to our folks. How do we create these safer communities specifically in schools and public spaces, knowing that the violent culture is is alive and well, both in our state of Vermont and nationally. I'm sure that one to you first just on the national yeah easy question right, but maybe just to build and again not looking for magical solutions but what are what are major steps for when we think about protecting communities protecting our public spaces schools in particular. As you were asking that I literally said in my head I have absolutely no idea. Yeah, I don't know the answer to that. I mean what what do we do to we have to pass legislation, we have to make it easier to not have guns. There isn't an answer other than that. In terms of protecting my own kids I don't have them go through lockdown drills, I have asked the principal to let me know on the days that they will have them and I keep them home, because I don't think that it's that they're mentally. I don't want to put them to that mental language and that anxiety and having having school resource officers arming people at the door having more guns doesn't make our schools safer it makes them more dangerous. You look at what happened with you validate I'm sorry but. I'm going to side the bullshit that they always say about a good guy with a gun, how many good guys with guns were standing there getting hand sanitizer and not going in, they were locking up children's parents. If I had been there if any of us has been there we would have run into try to save our children, they were handcuffing parents. So those are the good guys with the guns they weren't keeping anybody safe. They were standing there and waiting. So I don't beyond actually passing legislation beyond passing an assault weapons ban, beyond increasing the age. The vast majority of people who commit school shootings are white men between the ages of 18 and 21. We couldn't even raise the age to purchase an assault weapon versus purchase any weapon until the age of 21 we couldn't even pass that. There isn't an answer beyond that. It's, it's a terrifying situation and you were talking earlier about being desensitized. I had spoken on a panel, the day of the equality shooting and I will, I walked out with other candidates and some of our candidates and I was feeling super positive and pumped up about what we're going to do and what we're going to change in this country. I was standing there with our communications manager who is 25 years old and she started to cry and she said my entire life. This is what I've lived with and it's not going to change and my children are going to live with this and this is just the reality. And I was standing there with another mom who is running for state senate and honestly we went and got ice cream because we could not process what had happened yet again. And we sat quietly and we ate ice cream and then an hour later we started to talk about it. It was so traumatizing and so many people are completely desensitized and they don't understand it. So I'm sorry that I do not have an answer I wish I did. I don't know hopefully somebody else on this call does though. It's going to take a collective. Obviously there's this is deep and rooted and other countries have made bolder and switcher action but there's something unique about our culture and how long we've let this stand in many ways that I think we really have to understand and reckon with in many ways. And Pat I see your hand up if you want to put in Linda if you want to put comments or questions in the chat that's how we've designed tonight's sessions we can keep the space sort of moving along and we don't but we definitely welcome that so please use the chat function. And you can add your comments there and I'll, I'll read them off or and especially their questions I'll fold them in. So, Grace I'll go to you next on just wondering more more to say here I mean I didn't mean to design in a possible question but like we have to get to some sort of series of answers early steps forward even if we're starting in a small state like Vermont so what do you think about how to create schools and public spaces having more safety and having frankly a reckoning level conversation with what what it's going to take. Frankly, I have a really interesting perspective on this because this was my reality my entire life, starting from eighth grade after Sandy Hook happened, and I became aware of gun violence in this country. I never stepped into classroom again and felt safe. And following Sandy Hook, we were faced with bomb threats every single week threats for people to come into our schools yet again, especially because we were on national news people knew about us there was just an increase. And living with that fear every single day is traumatizing like everyone else has said and a lot of what my community has tried to figure out is like yeah how do we change this and I mean something that I think is very important is safe reporting systems. Sandy Hook promise pushes out their safe reporting system, which a lot of schools across the country have adapted and it is just as simple as like see something say something. I don't know if anyone has seen the PSA Sandy Hook promise has released but they're along the lines of a lot of times people show direct signs of these things. And sometimes people, specifically the fair haven, what happened that was saved because of safe reporting and someone reporting, even if, and something I think is really important to say is like, even if you have an inkling, it's okay to like feel that and be scared I think like certain times some people just know if someone has bad intentions and but the example that they use in the PSA is that this kid is looking up guns online and posting things on the internet and in the Chicago shooting, the shooter was a rapper that posted on SoundCloud about gun violence and how he wanted to use a gun to harm people and I just think like was and I get wrap is a culture but to me that it was very violent as well it screamed something is not right and he lacks empathy and maybe somewhere along the line if someone had reported that it could have changed the outcome of the event. So that's what I think would be the most important thing. And I think what Vermont lacks is the knowledge that Sandy Hook Newtown is very similar to every single town in Vermont, we were a small suburban community that everyone knew each other. You thought everyone knew each other you thought everyone was safe you thought no one could think like this but living amongst you and I don't want to participate in any kind of fear mongering but I think what everyone across the country has kind of put into their brains I mean especially people in my generation is that if it can happen there it can happen anywhere, and having that knowledge and wanting to pass legislation and wanting to create a safer community is I all we really can do. Thanks Grace. Can I see your hand I see your hand is that a hand. There was a piece of legislation and I can't remember what it was called a couple weeks ago that was basically like an amber alert system that if there was an active shooter, you would get a text. People would be alerted 168 Republicans voted against that. How are we supposed to, you cannot have a conversation with people if you vote against something that simple what is the reason if there's an active shooter wouldn't you want to be alerted wouldn't you want to know. And they voted against that. So, sorry, that is just that I came up. No apologies. It's the rule number one when I share space no apologies speak the truth. The number one thing we need to do is raise as much money as humanly possible for the candidates who are running against these people who are taking these votes, the people who are owned by the NRA we have to raise money for the people who are running against them. That is the number one thing we can do. And while this is not a campaign event elections matter so just want to just put that out there elections matter and and frankly just asking all the candidates doesn't matter what political stripes people are what what people are doing to actually move, not just say I, I will think about it I'll get back to you or I've even supported but what are you actively going to do in this again just looking here at the state or not to move this forward and to and to make sure the governor at the same time has that level of accountability and accountability, most importantly, because we are so such a, like a hair trigger away, no pun never pun intended there for something happening here and we had all this time to work towards preventing it and making a different reality here in Vermont and pushing our country in a different direction in our little state. I'm going to go to just out if you want to anything add anything and then I'm going to the questions that are starting to appear in the chat before we round out with some just reminders of what your organizations are going to be working on as the legislature picks back up in January here in Vermont so Ali first to you and then I'm going to go into Kelly's question and then Melinda's comment. Yeah, I just, I want to say I really appreciate the fact that you use the word violent culture, because so often we hear that mental illness is the cause of some of these really horrific, you know, think you know violent mass shootings and it's really a cultural issue that, you know, places the target on, you know, black indigenous people and other people of color on queer and transgender folks and culture that's kind of built on white supremacy and hatred so I don't mean to say that everybody is like this but we have so much of it ingrained in so many places in our culture. And if we don't tackle this sort of cultural shift. So we'll keep seeing these things kind of happen too. Thanks Ali and we're doing ourselves no favor again, I feel being so unresponsive but I mentioned before about the multiple generations. That is compounding the violent culture right they have been raised in no other space other than knowing that school shootings can happen anytime that that that the imagery that they're, you know, we're swimming in all the time is somehow normal when they see it there and and I think it's just it's it well it's again another moment of grappling around the next generation that we are raising and what and what where are our standards where where our values like what are we where do we leading with here and it's certainly not the right thing. I brought up a little bit about hate crimes and targeting and a folks with minoritized identities queer folks LGBT QIA folks, folks of color indigenous folks black folks, etc. I think when we talk about school shooting sometimes the other stuff can recede into the background but there's there's been a serious uptake tick of violence, gun violence attacks etc on folks based on their racial identity, and their sexual identity and their gender identity, especially trans folks in particular and folks of color of course so Kelly I put a question in there because again really want emphasize Vermont is not some bubble, despite what pop culture likes to say that Vermont some sort of triangle law like you're going to retire there and everything's fine and dandy, we are so not fine in dandy and so Kelly asked the question. This issue recently here with a man and came in Vermont which for those folks not familiar is way up in the as far northeast corner to possibly get before you hit Canada and New Hampshire it's like where those those borders meet in Vermont so very small community K through 12 school that's literally one building just in terms of context of how small we're talking about this community is. He had a parent threatened to kill literally kill people at the school. If anyone with LGBTQ identity interact with them they specifically called out drag queens as well as I recall in the in the news stories. And he told the police his parent told the police that he was trying to obtain a gun and just felt like an end Kelly saying it just felt like he was sorry it was just felt like it was not all there was not a lot to being done around the situation. It was just sort of starting with making threats, and it was just sort of another one of those like piff, and it was two days before the school year ended and what the response by a very overwhelmed school district. Was they just close school for the final two days early, and they, and they have yet to really, at least for we've seen, you know, in other parts of the state in terms of media, there's been no response. No certainly state conversation spark. This is another tricky thing I just want to name it happens in so many states with part time legislatures, where these big things happen. So I track into the world of this report but these big things happen outside of a part time legislatures time in session so the Vermont legislature ends usually around May, these big things happen. And yet, we don't go back and start to really dig into this we just simply wait it feels like until January and not to get in my soapbox but I think there's a piece here to around naming the urgency of getting to the bottom of this and taking the time we need to really dive into good and this one is one for example that I think Vermont needs to grapple with more is around hate crimes, and the intersection, again, of gun policy, easy access quick access to people who are moving with intentions of hate and targeting vulnerable and so can anyone open this up to anyone and you don't all have to speak to it either just to keep an eye on time. Can anyone speak to this either specific situation in Canaan, or the larger connection between gun violence and violence against queer folks in this in this country, and or I want to add and or folks of color or other minoritized identities anyone want to speak to that one. I would say, oh, sorry. Okay, I would say there. I mean there's a lot to this that could be done. I, I think accountability with the local police. And but as well as there's not really any laws in Vermont that say that they have to confiscate this and putting in stricter legislation will only help us but I also find voting these people out and just talking about this and getting more people that believe this way and I mean I'm not sure the political situation in Canaan. But if I know that corner I'm sure it's on the more conservative side. I would hope that a younger generation of people might be talking and spreading this viewpoint and I would hope that just education on this would help, especially in a corner where this probably isn't talked about a lot, and and culture is so saturated and hunting culture as well. And I think that would just because a lot of people completely lack the empathy towards minorities, and that's frightening, and it's a problem that is widespread across our country but what Vermonters are should continue to do is lessen those those people in power and increase the empathetic ones. I would say, I would use that word for that. Thanks Grace. So anyone else want to comment on the, on the, the, on the, the targeting the use of hate that guns and hate crimes, hate crimes in general of course but just how that all interfaces with the violent culture of the pieces we're talking about here. I don't know how you address it, without talking about what the government is doing right now to LGBTQI children. We have in legislation. Basically we have the political refugees who haven't we're having to leave Arkansas and Arizona and Alabama and taxes to keep their trans children safe from the government, because we have governors who are sending children's protective services against parents who are supporting and loving their children and making sure that they get gender affirming life saving health care. So if we're going to have a conversation about violence against minorities and especially LGBTQI children, we have an all out attack on trans kids in this country. There is a piece of legislation recently in Florida that would basically there was one school district in particular that is having a fight about this, that if an LGBTQI children goes on a overnight trip on a school trip, a letter has to go home to every parent that's child abuse. And this is the legislation that we're talking about. We need to address what the government what Congress what we're doing at the federal level to trans children in particular in this country, the don't say gay bill, let's have a conversation about but both Republicans and Democrats are doing. When it comes to this, you know, we had a Democrat running for governor who called the don't say in New York, who said and he was a friend of mine until he said this but he called the don't say gay bill reasonable. And we had to have an entire argument about it and he had no clue what it actually did. And that's a problem so we have to talk about the violence that our government right now is perpetrating on trans children on LGBTQ children. And then we can have a conversation about easy access to guns and this violence that is now just absolutely part of our culture. We're not connecting that yet another example of the intersectionality of all this policy right so when, when that happens, and there's this other ring, or dehumanizing or even, you know, well I really want to emphasize other ring of someone who's not part of the dominant culture white dominant culture heteronormative dominant culture. And to disassociate right to to not be empathetic even if a young person has those skills to to and also to internalize right a lot of this oppressive, oppressive policy that's coming out to internalize that something is wrong with me and it creates all of the perfect conditions that we talked about before like really understanding how do we get to this place with this culture being so, so dehumanizing so desensitized and so violent, because these are these are acts of violence these kind of legislative and executive orders these actions in these states that that is truly another, I think, you know from our violence and how our leaders are acting. Emily do you want to add anything before I move on to Malina's questions totally find a past to because I don't want to make sure but I want to make sure I give you your time as well on this. Yeah, I just, you know, I really appreciate what you said about this idea that, you know, Vermont is this progressive haven, which is what so many Vermonters think that it's a welcoming place but again we're not one of the states in the country by accident. It's not an accident that we are this way it is because of so many of the aggression so much of the hate that pushes people out of their towns their communities and it is a battle for a lot of them to stay. And I think that one, you know, the people who are thinking that it's a welcoming state how can we, how can we reshape this idea for them and really, how can we just keep guns out of the hands of violent white supremacists, if we're not. We're allowing easy access to guns that inherently means we're allowing access to guns to what's premises and that's something that should be included and when we're looking at background checks. And a lot of times it won't even it won't even rise to the level of, you know, crime or something like that it'll just be threats Confederate flags, you know, spray painting area brotherhood symbols. You know it's just the threats and intimidation and the aggressions. And then you think that the people that they have to call to help them in these situations is law enforcement, when we see so much disproportionate impact of policing in our state. It's just a real problem. So, how are we going to kind of train again, transform this, this culture in Vermont that says that these kinds of things are okay, because they're not. Thanks Ali and thanks for bringing that those pieces in because militias and armed folks I mean they exist all throughout, you know, especially in Northern New England it's not again like we're immune to this and these very arms January 6 right 2021. If there's anything that just put out how unfettered some of these actions are and how armed and violent and aggressive even against you know what we thought would be these most protected and sacred spaces it's it's a real. It's a real thing and we're going to move into what comes next in just a moment but I wanted to give a little moment to Melinda's comment here. She said I'm thinking of the women in Chile who wore a colored headscarf to protest their disappeared relatives so during a lot of the people know the political history there around people who are disappeared so murdered kidnapped for being a political resident or a group disagreeing with government or their identities there's a whole slew of pieces about the history there. A visible sign of she asked is there a visible sign of protest we can do. Are we numerous enough for those of us who I agree on these issues and with this help the conversation. So as an organizer, as a labor organizer for most of my professional career I think it's so important for organizing to really think about like what are, what are the tactics activities things we can collectively do. So it's we don't just wait for our legislators to be our saviors in this like how do we collectively organize and bring people together so. So thoughts on either Melinda's ideas or just what can collectively we do to to elevate this conversation and fully more than just legislators engage anyone on this one. So this is proposing a bill this upcoming session that gives more freedom to local men and municipalities are that word is hard tonight. I Burlington a couple years ago tried to pass some kind of firearm act as a city and they were not allowed to do so. So I think that this could really help our towns, especially a place like Burlington which we may require stricter gun laws because we're a bigger city more populated. Not, and we're also politically different politically than some of the other cities in the state. So why kind of should we sit under the state level while we could be doing something on a local level, and I also wanted to say like the wear orange. So I think that every town produces like a couple days a year, I, and it's really sad but after a lot of mass tragedies. They do tell everyone to wear orange in solace with gun violence and just in support. So I think that would, that's kind of a cool way to protest. And for folks who are watching Burlington, I think it's at least five plus years ago I'm trying to remember the year past a charter change which would have allowed the city. This is a part of our structure here in Vermont towns can create further local laws but need to get pulled by the voters first both the local town select board or city council first and then by voters and then it goes to the legislature to ultimately approve or not and where that gun, that piece of gun policy control to create ordinances to further, further do gun control here in Burlington where where it tripped up was when it went to the State House the State House refused to pass that that the legislature the House and Senate refused to move that forward so it just shows you that even when there's local efforts there's these system, the systems it matters that the interchange between local and state government, who we elect to these, these positions, I think it's even more timely given the increase of gun violence in Burlington, Vermont. And I always say Burlington is not, is not detached from the rest of the state, what's going on here in terms of the local leaders response and the police department's response, and the very dangerous narratives that are going on right now with our acting chief of police in terms of racializing it in a really problematic way, and dog whistles are being used and how he's talking about it. It is, it is about time that we start to think about this as a city again and try to either go back to that charter change or have or really start to move this in a way forward. So Luba or Ali any any comments on that piece around organizing and collect in the collective action we can might might be able to take. So it's organizing and collective action that we need to take around gun violence around row around so many things. Honestly, I would love to see a shut everything down and it's not realistic, and that's the reality I'd love to have not, you know, we have the walkouts with one day of you already walks out of school but I'd love to see a complete walk out of everybody and teachers students for a serious period of time until we can pass an assault weapons ban the reality is people can't afford to do that. The unions aren't going to support it teachers need to get paid. I would love to see that happen. I don't know that it's possible. You know in Iceland when they when they tried to repel abortion women just took to the streets and stopped functioning completely and shut the country down and got it fixed. We can't really do that we have such a large country and so many people don't have the financial ability to do that that unfortunately I don't see. I don't see it being feasible as much as I would like to say yes that's what we need to do. I don't know the logistics behind it. I mean actually I'm curious Ali, is that like have you know has mom's demand thought about doing something like that have they thought about having longer walkouts. Is there any sort of feasible way that you could realistically do that. Yeah, our students demand action networks across the country have done a great job of, you know, kind of leading this effort around walkouts and things like that. I think some of my favorite images are seeing the sea of red shirts in Washington DC or other big rallies that happen. Or even showing up in mass to a meeting where they're talking about going back showing up in mass to school board meetings. All wearing the red shirt so I think that has been very powerful to see. It's a relatively new chapter but you know we, we're always welcome in all the way to the next question to get into how you can get involved with us. Great. Thanks Ali and I'm just going to share that you know that just again to illustrate why it's so important to reach out to your legislators and your city counselors and your school board members. A month or two ago or I forget when you've already actually happened at sea it just it goes and then we all go back into our normal lives which I'm air quoting because we're trying I am at least personally trying to commit to not revert back to that desensitized trauma response, just protect myself and my family, some families from the child care center that my youngest goes to reach out and said hey as a fellow parent who happens to be a state legislator because that's how we roll here in Vermont we're inaccessible we are parents doing drop off a child care in school just like everybody else. They reached out and asked like what what's going on with gun policy in the state and as we're sitting there talking it through. They weren't all from Burlington some are from Colchester, one was from Heinsberg, and they're trying and they're asking me a bit about because we talked a little bit about school safety and the lockdown drills and these policies and I was as we were talking through it occurred to me how important is to even interrupt those conversations where the autopilot responses just, you know, have these these lockdown drills and don't ask the questions about are we are further traumatizing our students right like have parents actually and families, talk to school members why is that the policy why is that the response versus thinking largely more largely and broadly around the social emotional well being of our students, as well as connecting school board members to the gun policy instead of just you know, for the control trying to control an impossible thing to control right so it's I raise that just because it's it's interesting to think about all the different forms of action not just storming the state capital but thinking about the power and decision making the school board members have the power and decision making that folks have around just organizing and again I was a labor organizer for a long time for the teachers union but there's plenty of states where teachers have walked out right they didn't seek permission from unions or school districts, they walked out and and that collective action is actually possible it was happening around 2018 2019 around, you know issues around just the functionality of public schools in certain states and the lack thereof, but this this one, it seems like a spark again even if it starts on a local or state level is necessary to just, you know, rattle rattle some some urgency and I and I hope that the Vermont advocates here can can see the way for how Vermont can like lead that way I want to I want to add one more comment before we wrap up with our final question to our panelists and you wrap up our time tonight, which came in from pat, who's been a messaging with one of our co hosts, and pat I don't know your pronouns I'm just gonna say pat pat offered, we are also advocating for the use of, we should be advocating for the use of federal money to train local law enforcement on the Vermont or or pro laws, these acronyms always trip me up as there's so many in the world of lawmaking, but the ER, ERP, which is the emergency protection piece that we're talking about before right alley that's what roughly stands for, and it is and we seldom use that ERP a lot in Vermont, and even law enforcement and judges seldom uses so we need to advocate with Vermont government to get also a secure storage bill to take place here in Vermont and that gets a little bit also into just easy access as we were talking about before getting that that comment for our panelists so I'm hoping we can like maybe break the gloomy clouds a little bit it has been stormy here in the state of Vermont today so how can we just break in a little bit of sunlight into what what are you all pushing forward in this moment and trying to encourage us as the state legislators and the governor I want to keep adding he is a player here to consider as we go get ready for January which is not that far away but as bill drafting starts in the fall. What are what are you hoping to see from maybe like the top two things your organizations are trying to advance here. Emily do you want to go first and then we'll go to grace and then we'll go to the federal just for that wrap it up to hey hey Ali. Yeah, I just want to end with, you know how you can get involved with most man so we are a relatively new chapter. There's chapters across the United States, but we are entirely grassroots powered. Last we do a lot of advocacy, but we also have been working on our gun sense candidates program so getting people who are guns and certified into office and supporting them. That way they fill out one of our questionnaires basically and then we kind of support them. And it lets everybody know that they are a gun sense candidate. We also pat is on the call and is on STEM action volunteer as well, and does a lot of our be smart secure storage education so helping parents and caregivers know how to and people with guns know how to store their guns properly and how to have these conversations if you are a parent or caregiver with another person if your kid is going to their house. How do you talk about if their house is safe. And so we've been working on that and we do a lot of partnership and coalition building. And there's one more thing. Oh, and it just having conversations. This is like a huge thing you can do just on your own talking to your friends and family dispelling some of these myths that you're hearing. You know, advocating for your legislators are stated so small is so easy to get in touch with your legislators and and talk about the things that you want to see in gun violence prevention in our state. And if you text join to 64433 I'll put it in the chat. You get a little questionnaire and will be on our list. Thank you. Great. Thanks Ali. Grace what more can people be doing what are you all thinking about pushing Vermont towards in the next six months. We're all talking about guns senses legislation that we're writing up right now we have a list of things but I think personally my two that I am focused on is semi automatic rifle ban. I do not think that should be in the hands of average citizens and it cannot be used for hunting it is only meant to kill its host, which is a human. And I think that I would love to see that on the federal level to, and I think we have a better chance of doing it in Vermont because it is just common sense frankly but also safe storage is definitely up there I think that when we're looking at suicide safe storage will do a lot for that. And it is just yet intersection, intersectionally included with all of the other things as well. So we're we also are hoping to work with a lot of gunsense candidates were kind of narrowing down who we really know that is on our side right now. So yeah, like Ali said it's just important to support people and know if they're a gunsense candidate or not. And I know that every town has that resource right on their website as well. So if anyone wanted to get involved with gunsense, we have a membership link on our website and we're always looking for volunteers and resources and contacts. And yeah. Thanks Grace and if you want to put gunsense for months of website into the chat that would be great. So as we, I'm going to give you the floor Luba in just a second same thing to mom cement action the Vermont chapter if there's a particular page Ali you want to put in there and when we send out the recording will make sure the public access also has that text in case there's a space to put that caption info in. So Luba, again, no magic ball on the federal level but is there anything that you wanted to offer people up about if there's on a federal level that you know of that people can get involved in to really just try to make some change and and not stay in this and the, in the whatever in action Yeah, as much as this is not a campaign event I'm going to agree with both of you support the candidates who are going to actually vote the right way on these issues. Figure out figure out who is running in your district figure out who you can get behind figure out who you can help get elected. All of our vote mama candidates are gunsense candidates look at everybody that that mom's demand is supporting those the people that you should support and volunteer. If you're interested in getting involved in vote mama, our website is vote mama dot org and vote mama foundation dot org. We are about to launch our C for organizing arm as well which is vote mama lobby. So we were launching that in September and that is our advocacy and grassroots organizing arm. So please sign up for both of our mailing lists and you'll get all of the information when we launch that get involved. The only thing that you can do is get involved, sign up, volunteer, help these candidates, pay attention, call your legislators if they're voting the wrong way on these bills, call them call them every single day, because they're hearing from the NRA they hear from the NRA they get their money, you need to be making sure that they hear your voice and you need to be making sure that you're supporting their opponents. And I'll just wrap up by saying thank you all so so much and those who will view this later. Thanks for taking the time to watch this through and to really think seriously about what we need to be doing at this time. We, we need to be taking action and we need to be holding local at state level here in Vermont and federally are elected accountable we all have a role in this as we talk about culture and the intersectionality of how this all shows up. I'm going to put my contact information in the chat for those who are here in the room, but you can find my information on the legislative website for the Vermont legislature I'm happy to have one on one conversations, especially for folks in my district about this. And I'll be looking I'm sure I'll be partnering with Tanya she's also re-elected this time to the Senate to really try to put some bold legislation for it because we bold legislation expands the possibility and conversation if we if we continue to do incremental changes will never get anywhere so I'm here for that that's why I run for office and why I serve and I hope you all stay engaged in this conversation so thanks so much for being here.