 live let me pull up YouTube real quick by the way this is streamed live okay so there's no edits and oh cool be super i mean just i mean i don't i don't think anyone's ever gotten in trouble with this but it's always good to know there's always a first time we could always be a first lot to be first to things that we do yeah do you want me to um to tweet where where's where should people go yeah we'll get this up and then uh i'll have a link i'll get you on the on the back end it's great by the way to meet both of you virtually likewise yeah yeah yeah cool now we get to first time i get to meet you we get to share a viewer sweet that's that's a it's a heck of a first impression for me all right i think i'm gonna hit the go live i'll let you know when i see it what are we doing here this is zero one zero craft brood agile with the pubcast yep that sounds good on youtube ryan nice i like it when we go live on youtube yeah all right so we are live this is another episode of craft brood agile okay how's it going Todd it's going awesome i'm super stoked to talk to these fine gentlemen today yeah there's a it's always a always a good chat so actually i was on jeff and paul's uh pubcast a little bit ago i got a chance to chat a little bit and so that was always fun and i thought well if Todd and i are doing a beer thing how can i not have the pub pubcast guys join us i mean that doesn't sound right does it and so jeff watz and paul goddard jeff and paul are probably two of the top uh csts in europe um awesome trainers awesome authors jeff uh wrote arguably the best scrum book on the planet scrum mastery uh he's also written product mastery and his new book team mastery is out um i i don't have a copy yet i'm uh eagerly uh going out to get one i can't wait to read it um but if it's anything like scrum mastery or product mastery i'm sure it's awesome and everyone out there should grab it but guys welcome welcome to uh craft brood agile thank you thank you ron thank you talk cheers cheers so we got to start with what we're drinking right we always we always name the the breweries and the beer so i'm i'm back to gathering place Todd i can't get over wisconsin's brews and i'm drinking the storm and stress it is a german black lager it's uh it's a 5.3 beer and that's all that's on the label so that's all i can say but it's uh another gathering place brew from eric weber and we love it is minimalist packaging isn't it it is it's just a sticker but man it's good i've got a really good sticker on mine look at that it's like flowers yeah oh yeah this is uh this is spring by treehouse up in massachusetts um i i tend to just go straight in with imperial ipas i don't know what percentage this is but i took a sip of it so i'm guessing it's above eight okay start my thursday off right i suppose yeah there you go happy lunch i've got a similar similar looking can see you there Todd oh that is very similar so i'm wondering whether they they use the same kind of uh i can't see how because they're completely different parts of the world but this this beer is from a brewery in my home town of Cheltenham agostosia and so today i'll give them a shout out because they're a small startup that are doing quite well this one's called into the haze they all have weird names they sort of are unlimited edition batches i think it's an IPA it is 6.2 and it's very citrusy sharp and nice oh i love that kind of beer very nice Paul how about you guys i've got um a bottle of burrow hill this is uh perry this time it's it's kind of like uh this pear cider so i'm normally a cider drinker um but now i'm drinking pear cider which is very nice it's very sweet 6.3 percent which is quite strong for me um so this my apologies for this how i start slowing my words quite quickly but uh hi it's the evening so i'm gonna crack all down there you go my guess is it would probably be me that takes that that throne you're slurring the words from coming out fast this beer goes down oh we know um interestingly i my my glass is from brew by numbers in from london um i would say there's like fancy glass yeah it's a fancy glass it's a brew by numbers um i uh i was over there five i was in one in five years ago and i uh walked from my hotel to this brewery it's very good i have to check it out yeah i like it i do like the glass and then it's got a nice shape to it it's good yeah your hand can really nestle in there so you don't drop it yeah yeah just like a two third part of the glass is that a schooner or like a two-thirds of a pint thing i don't know is that a full pint in the glass yeah i got the like it yeah i got this whole okay yeah cool so what's been happening you know what it's weird we've just been working i i don't know about you guys but uh over here it seems like things are coming back a bit training's firing up consulting requests are coming in i don't know we've just been it's amazing we're supposed to be like sheltered in place and kind of low-key and with this virtual stuff that we've been able to do teaching i mean it's uh we've been busy how about you guys we're i think we're still a little bit behind um well certainly in terms of what's available to us we were having a chat the other week with uh some of our american friends jeff and uh they were they were talking about these these mysterious things called restaurants you have that we should are now open in the u.s. i understand we're not we're not lucky enough to have restaurants open in the year over here so we're a little bit behind of it yeah we're a little worried about that like uh my wife and i have not gone to a restaurant yet we still do take away and and stay at the house but yeah it seems like things are opening up a little quick yeah hopefully that's not a bad move you know what i will say though is i'm really glad that there's a decline in requests for virtual happy hours right is it just me or like virtual happy hours have just become the most awkward thing ever yeah it's like i don't know what i did what's that i don't i've never been invited to a virtual happy hour this is kind of one but there's only four of us okay we're live on youtube a lot of work thing like work work drinks that even friends you know you get 10 friends on a zoom and okay and it's the same like things that happen in a meeting where you're like oh well i just and i'm just like i'm out of here i quit i'm not doing this i think it was a novelty for about six weeks and i think now the novelty has complete almost completely worn off we we were doing like um friends and quiz quizzing was seemed a bit of a thing in the uk everyone wanted to do a quiz every week and now everyone's now no one quizzes anymore it's just like we will pass that it's got boring we just we don't want to do any more zoom now that was so last month paul oh no that's so may 2020 but your quiz shows are phenomenal they are fun to watch um you know here like a what we've gotten into is like the driveway beer right from everyone they bring a lawn chair and they spread out in the driveway and there's chat you know 10 feet apart and those are kind of fun but you know talking to quiz shows you know paul's been on three questions no on the tv well funny you should say that jeff let me uh let me uh explain yes i've been i've been a quiz show fanatic over here in the uk and i've appeared on um three three um pro i'm going to say prime time uh prime time tv shows in the uk and uh yeah i've um you probably haven't maybe not heard of them but there was a quiz that we have called eggheads okay i heard of that um 15 to 1 which is a bit more of a famous quiz okay i didn't win that either i haven't won any of these quizzes so far by the way and then what's the last one i was on uh tenable which again is end of there but you might know warwick davis you know warwick davis you know he was he was the presenter so that's that says as close to fame as i've got i'd met someone who was reasonably famous who presented the quiz show very cool i know i know someone who's been on the chase over there okay yeah so but they they took quite hard to get on the chase though it's quite that's cool because a lot of money involved is quick so it's usually a lot harder to get on to the shows where there's a lot more money involved yeah he got i guess totally beat up in the press for taking the bailout money he took the he took the low deal when he wouldn't win a lot more but i don't know my british tv when my knowledge is limited if jimmy car is the presenter i've probably watched it otherwise like eight eight out of ten cats does count it does count down yeah it's probably one of the funniest shows i've seen in a long time didn't the office originally yeah it did yeah rickie javais yeah yeah and then and then uh i guess we kind of stole it and made the michael scott office yeah and then there's the whole the whole rickie javais and steve corral wasn't there the fake rivalry between like that steve corral stole his is her any order it was a kind of a but yeah kind of that whole skin that they did you guys have a couple really good ones like i'm a big car fan and then richard iowati just made up just just kills me he's got some good stuff over there i like it it yeah so how much does our uh i think this is a silly question how much does our tv bleed over and pollute your airwaves i would say my daughter my daughter is well into american tv well i mean disney plus is is oh yeah it's getting a um a good rinsing on our r tv right now my daughter just watches these things called the lodge do you know the lodge she watches that and she watches high school musical the series and all the honors on that yep i can't i can't i just can't watch that stuff it's i'm sorry it's just it's just awful disney plus is running at our house probably as long as the kids are up there's something yeah they're not watching it it's just on so the man to worry and it's fantastic though it was i've watched the first couple of episodes of that with my son and then we just haven't really got back to it not the not because we didn't like it just we haven't we haven't made the time to to finish it but yeah what was that i missed that series what was it the mandolin you've seen it although he's gonna be the mandolin you have to tell you what it's the weather has finally taken a turn for the better like i don't know how it is over there guys but don't don't start it's been raining and paving and flooding the last few days really well it's like it's been like 80s and 90s and the kids have been playing outside and jumping in the pool and it's coming you guys your weather's coming it'll be good yeah you say that probably won't we have we had a very good day we had a lot yeah we were quite lucky first the first part of lockdown that's yeah we were the driest and warmest may ever on record literally we had we had the up we our may was terrible yeah it was wet it was just flooding and i think it rained at 25 out of 30 days 31 days it was brutal so now you guys are getting the other half of that yeah we're talking about td i spoke to my my grandmother today my grandmother was 90 and and she she she's skyped me to tell me that she's got netflix and she's she's been watching the crown and down to happy she's 90 living on her own she got into tiger king yet or not not yet but she's a she's got a friend in somewhere like just outside london sort of ready way i think and they've agreed to watch these series together so they'll both watch the same episode and the same day so that they can talk about it because they don't get to see each other they're just skyping each other yeah i'm a bit proud of her so i thought i'd just throw that out there that's awesome we found that flex on her own and it's awesome yeah well done jeb's grandma using skype as well that's that's no my parents can barely use i-message on an iphone because i let them fight it's funny my mom still will just start sending me emojis and i'm like what are you doing he's like well no ryan this means so and it's like this string of emojis that i'm supposed to decode and i'm the one who's like just call me just call me tell me what's going on i don't understand what what it's it's almost like the old um i don't know if you you guys saw lassie growing up but the dog would bark like what timmy's in the well it's like i'm really emojis i'm like wait is my dad okay like what what is going on here i'm just oh they're fun it's my kids my kids don't understand so my kids uh are um they're just on their birthdays so they're 11 and 9 now and they're almost exclusively been brought up on on iphones they the only phone device that they understand really are iphones and my my mom their their grandma that has only got um a very old i think it's like a motor roll it's a some old prehistoric phone that doesn't do emoji it doesn't do any type of i-message emojis anything like that so they're trying to text my net my my mom and she they're the same why isn't she responsive you can't text and she won't get all these emojis that you're sending they just come through as as these garbage texts and and they and she sends her like a reply in like massive capital letters because you can only you can only do capital letters in text why is nana shouting at me but why is nana shouting at me she's still pressing the three button four times together yeah you just have people that could like text like speed with across the uh the digits and the the keypad so speed texting was incredible do you remember the game sneak on the iphones too yeah oh what does he get at he's still got i i don't get the other day and it's just been it's been charging for about three three days you see this you see that oh nice still works is that technically still bt's property just gave him a little panic moment there he's like wait maybe just did i actually buy this or was it did i inherit it yeah maybe um no it still works the battery life of these things was incredible love love my knocking i love snake i love the simplicity of it i'll just yeah the back i had a razor flip phone you remember the razor it was like that was all the big deal the matrix phone was that the matrix or was that the another one um i don't remember oh my gosh that reminds me i watched the most epic trailer uh we should play this i don't know if we'd get in trouble on youtube but speaking of matrix maybe think of keanu reeves which made me think of bill and teds yeah part four yeah that's filming it oh yeah that's the film that it is going to happen yeah i i showed my wife and she's like what is this i'm like babe they're doing another bill and teds like no way like that was like our childhood like that's the movie i can't believe they got keanu to do it we're getting a top gun another top gun we're getting a top gun we're getting another matrix but all these films have been put back on me because of corona bar so i think a lot of them we were due to get this summer and we're going to have to wait probably the 12 months to get them but um oh new christ nolan film as well tenet you heard about that one that looks good as well as that's coming it's supposed to be someone better might get delayed i've seen adverts no of these films jeff seen by the way have you heard jeff's i've seen the matrix i was only thinking today actually that it might be time for me to watch the matrix again well jeff gets a lot of work done like he gets books written and we're off watching movies and these are cranking out masterpieces of agile knowledge there you go but i know but in some respects jeff i i sacrifice just one of those books for you to have watched another ten or fifteen films that you really should have seen by now all right which which book came up the other day by it he hasn't seen shawshank redemption now now let me talk to someone else who has not seen that film and that's just beyond jeff i'm i'm kind of with paul on this i think you could you could sack a book for for joshing's a pretty good one you can't you can't not see that there's there's there's a list of films that i really should see absolutely i a bit that absolutely and there's a there's a weird perverse logic to it because i look at a film i think i've had them on my tv they're on the planner thing that i could just press play and they'll play but i think two hours i'll watch an episode of peeky blinders instead because that's a 50 minutes that's a good trade yeah and then but what the perverse logic is i end up watching three episodes of peeky blinders which is longer than the film yep but because they're in little increments it's easier for me to to digest like i find the commitment to watch a film at home difficult but there's certain films that i also that if i happen to um stumble across it like at 11 o'clock at night for example just browsing on channels i'm thinking and there'll be a film that starts i think the latest one i saw was inception which you think oh now i'm hooked now you think i can't not finish this film i've gotta watch the whole thing and it'll get to like 1 30 am and i'm thinking i should have gone to bed three hours ago but that's the secret of a good film it can kind of it can hook you in that first 15 to 30 minutes when an inception is so so like elaborate and applied you can watch it one week and watch it maybe like a couple weeks later and you notice different things about it you know like those really deep intricate and i actually got hooked watching karate kid it was started at 11 o'clock at night yeah old school karate kid yeah i'm like i'm gonna pay attention to really little things that i don't think i ever paid attention to before and then i started questioning the whole movie especially after the program kai series on youtube red jeff we're gonna we're gonna wreck your life in july we're just gonna send you a list of things to watch but you know what jeff is probably sitting there going well i've got a great good relationship with my kids thank you along really well and uh the business is going yeah he's trading all of that good success for movies and what we're telling him right now is no it's not worth it you're making him a nice a nice agile theme running through karate kid isn't there in terms of the whole shuhari the uh quoted in scrum master English you remember yes so yeah i had to explain that quote to jeff from to put in the book but um yeah so but yeah the whole the whole martial arts learning so yeah it's a nice kind of theme running through that very good you know it's uh it it is it's such a good movie but then the i don't know paul if you've watched uh cobra kai on youtube they shifted the perspective so it's present day from the perspective of johnny lorence okay and so now they're exploring his life and it i when i saw it come out i was like i kind of felt like they were about to wreck my childhood because karate kid is one of those it's like it's the one of the three movies you watched over and over and over as a kid in the us had karate kid uh you had the goonies had back to the future yeah and i feel like those were just on repeat all through my formative years right maybe that just my that's my weird childhood that's a baby i'm with you ryan but when they came out with cobra kai i was like no don't wreck this like karate kid two was forgivable yeah three three was ignorable it's like all right everything's still fine but they could have no it was great i think you felt something there which is which is something that has caused a bit of a rift a little bit between me and paul and and possibly more Nigel because nigel gets very attached to things and that you you're looking at these films from 40 30 40 years ago through 1980s 40 years ago just saying all right okay okay that's hurt you're looking at these films right with with nostalgia and you're placing a greater um greater value on them and a greater appreciation because of the impact they had on you at the time now it's impossible for you to put yourself in in my position because you've already seen them but if i watch them now correct they're quite shit so and call so i mean i use i use jaws as an example right so jaws is a classic movie okay if you watch it then it was incredible i'm sure but if you watch it now you think my god the special effects are awful and and it's not that it's just because things have moved on and i find that you use if yeah i think there's that that we call that the endowment effect and i think that's that's you know we get over attached to things we place greater value on something because we have it and i think that's the same with memories and experiences and that's that's that's that could be quite hard let's want one of the cognitive biases isn't it full of full of them but also the audience is changing isn't it the audience for those films now isn't really us you know oh you know the the the man was the self-confessed middle at midlife crisis the male in his in his 40s and that's not the target that's not the target market for these reboots they're trying to bring them back to kids my kids basically oh i i actually i might disagree paul i think when they bring this stuff back they're they're trying to get our money our kids are good money they they're what they're doing is they're jazzing it up to where our kids will be interested but they're getting us just they're pulling on those heart strings like jeff just enough to get that wallet open yeah because i know that we've got the money i think they're saying they're trying to get you your nostalgia your romance kindled again and say to your kids oh i watched this film when i was young but you don't have to watch the shit old version you can watch the new cool version and it's a win-win that's yeah i would watch a jaws remake i would watch a jaws reboot but you've got sharp nado what why do you need it so you haven't seen shaw strong redemption but you've seen sharp nado yeah do you know who's to blame for that how it's to blame for that and then you come on our show and insult karate there's no way i would have watched sharp nado if i hadn't been staying at howard sublet's house and he said oh jeff you've got to watch sharp nado you've got to watch this man possibly one of the worst films ever so i'm gonna i'm gonna text howard real quick and just let him know that uh shark nato is uh jeff is saying shark nato is his fault i think he'll love it howard howard's a good dude for those of you don't know howard uh former big visible what did big visible become um solutions iq and then a censure and now he's co-CEO of scrim alliance howard's a good dude and if he showed you shark nato at least he brought you into some modern films right that was that genre is um his his expanded isn't it i was i was browsing through netflix the other day and there is um i think i'll cover the name of it it was something like beaverville which was like it was a zombie beaver film i wasn't sure where you were going there paul it's before the watershed i wouldn't go that far it's it's about a group of um of kids that discover a lake and there's undead beavers in the lake and they've made a film of it and it's on netflix you can watch it shark nato and beaverville they're in this genre of bullshit premises on netflix somewhere there's some producers put good money behind that thank you that's a good idea i'm going to put my money behind that it got made it's going to be a crossover right just like alien versus predator which i haven't seen but there's going to be shark nato versus beaverville at some point right shark nato versus beaver i love the movie the original predator it is oh it is still good it still holds up that alien versus predator stuff was uh you know what films haven't held up in my opinion indiana jones oh no no because the special effects i have to disagree i'm going to end the call now so yeah indiana jones is is a huge part of my childhood i can remember script and all sorts yeah massive part of my childhood i love those movies too but i watch them in the special effect like you see him punch and it's like three feet away from the guy and then also the guy like flips into a real barrel well it's supposed to be like the over the top because like you know even when he punches they do that real big sound effect and when he fires his little like revolver they do like a cannon like it's supposed to be over the top it's like it's a fun film right it's got one of the best lines i still quote it today like they're in the they're in the submarine and maryon makes fun of indiana jones for being old and he just turns around he goes honey it's it's it's not the age it's the miles and he falls and i'm like what a great line like it's i'm not old it's just the miles yeah i actually bought the indiana jones box set on itunes for my kids when we were gone on holiday i thought no i couldn't because i have seen i know i've seen one indiana jones film i might have seen two i don't know and i thought oh let's see what they they weren't interested in the slightest that was that was a waste of money but they should again with that they shouldn't have made in my opinion tog they shouldn't have made the fourth one i agree right they should have stated three and they should should never have gone back to it but i think there's still a script out there for indiana jones five isn't that i think harrison ford has still signed up to do a fifth one even though he's about 104 years old but yeah apparently i don't know yeah so now we're now we're movie critics there's no point in me answering this question but if you could be if you could have played one role in a film what would it have been oh that's an amazing question if i could have played the role so i i you know i have uh sometimes these things come to my mind i get myself in trouble like live on youtube i want to say i want to say uh right now with the mood that i'm in i'm gonna say i would have loved to be will ferrell then um what was the movie with the fraternity oh old school old school yeah he just seemed like he was having a great time great time yes i mean i don't want the his diverse situation but maybe we'd go run through the quad to the gymnasium go in streaking um man what would be a fun you know what i i have to be true to my childhood i would go luke skywalker yeah i would i mean that's like i mean we all like played pretending we were jedi growing up i'd go luke yeah that's a good one it's better than i wish what do you think paul well mainly i'm heavily influenced by what i've been watching at home with my kids at the moment i think but jeff will know i've always been a massive fan of um and Hugh jackman and it's wolverine so i've already picked and i'm hairy enough i think i could pull the pulls the the hair off but yeah the beard off but i think um i love i love comic book movies and i love um uh the characters of wolverine i think i'd probably play wolverine i think they're looking at bringing wolverine into the mcu yeah which is going to be just crazy like i know those movies have been great so so far we have wolverine luke skywalker and frank detain from jess come with me out here so i i'm gonna i'm gonna say beetle juice that's a that's a great pick yeah nice michael keaton why jeff why um i just it was he had a lot of fun it was a fun movie and i remember it from from a long time ago and we watched it not that long ago um and my kids enjoyed it so it's it's a movie that's to a degree stood the test of time but you could you're you're a big fan of dress up halloween jeff surely that could be on the halloween list people do is costume yeah yeah i think yeah um it's a perhaps a little too obvious i don't know you'd like a little bit more mystery around your halloween get up there well a little bit more play rather than just a person so yeah i don't know maybe haven't really got thought about this year actually to be honest this will even happen but obviously halloween will happen but will there be a chance to go out i you know what i'm i'm worried that it'll happen like i'm waiting next i mean i feel like we've been set up for like next month to find out that aliens are here or they're coming and the month after for an asteroid and the month after that for you know some kind of volcano to go off and i i just feel a progression coming that uh i'm not i'm not confident that halloween's actually going to happen he points this whole mayan calendar rereading no no no no i just think it's been one of those years where it's like we've got the locus we have the we have the pandemic yeah um if frogs start falling out of the sky i'm going to be praying hard that's all of him it's getting wild yeah so i suppose we should ask one thing about actual okay yeah go for it yeah i think there's some in two things really um so uh uh jeff i'm really interested in what inspired you for team mastery okay and i'm also interested in what inspired you both to start your your podcast so which do you want first which which one do you feel like talking about first um team mastery was it's kind of a pool in a way in that i had so many people say so when are you going to write the third one um and i thought i thought wow wow um but a massive part of the inspiration was having my i say having my obviously my wife had our third child um and we were on holiday and part of the part of this is a big gap between our kids so we've got a 17 year old 13 almost 14 year old and now a one year old and so lots changed since we last had kids and one of the things that's changed is this idea of milestone cards so um my my my little list took his first steps like started walking the other day and we've got this box of cards where you take out that you know i took my first steps and take a picture with him and the milestone card and you post it and you brag about it to all your friends on social media i thought that was pretty cool i thought because of one of the big conversations that you generally have is well agile maturity models and how do you know things are getting better and you know what what are the different degrees of self management within a team and stuff like this and i didn't really see that there was one because every every great team that i'd seen or been part of had been different they're taking their own different parts so i saw this as an opportunity to kind of put a few things together and that every team is different but there are some pretty common milestones that they go through not necessarily in the same order and that idea of what are they and what is what is great and how do you know that you're you how do you know what to work towards and give you something to celebrate and actually cement and solidify the achievements so that's where that came from Paul Paul's more got more of a memory about the pubcast i think i don't know i think it was um how long ago was it we had the anniversary not long ago i think it's over well it's probably just had our fourth year anniversary now in many we started in many 2016 so um it was probably just one of those we were when i was thinking about getting another kind of um media out in terms of another product if you like another way of getting um to our network and our connections and which i thought about doing um podcasting before and then jeff and i um just mused on the fact we could be doing something together and then we said we don't want to make it to we like the fact it's kind of well we we don't want to spend too long polishing something we we didn't want it to take too much time so it's all started with this i've got my desk actually it was this this is where it all started a little kind of handheld digtophone and we just started um plugging and pressing record on that while we were in the pub and just the amount of times that we were sad and chatting thinking this is gold this is always so clever when we're drinking yeah um we just thought maybe there'd be a be an element of of um you know just talking about what we're drinking a little bit to make us appear human but also to maybe get a couple of maybe uh anecdotes or a couple of little nuggets that people might remember and it's kind of just it's been it because it's been quite easy to do i think it's as played into it's how long it's been around so it's usually apart from this week i've been i seem to be editing for about eight hours this week but it's usually quite an easy thing to put out and then the feedback that we've got is generally people quite like it because it's quite informal yeah so we kind of kept it so you got to go with this format then paul just stream right to youtube and just hit done yeah exactly we have done a few of those we we we were starting experimenting with that we actually not not well not one of our last courses we did i don't know when it was but we were in doubling and we had about four different devices set up so we had one that was streaming live to facebook one that was streaming live to youtube one that was streaming live to something else and and we had people in the pub as well who were asking us questions and yeah we it's it's it's nice when you have the opportunity to interact as well yeah we did get a few funny looks when we all of a sudden we then when we're not asked we don't have some permission and just take over a whole desk with lighting and microphones and people think are you a tv crew now so yeah we have to be quite a bit more careful but um and there's a lot of the stuff we've lost purely because of um the audio wasn't clean enough or there was just too much background noise and a lot of the stuff that ended up on the cutting room floor it would probably get me and jeff into a lot of trouble but but maybe that's not a bad thing uh we i i feel the same way about agile for humans you know the podcast that jeff loves to forget um the forgettable podcast right jeff uh but i i was spending so much time editing the thing i told todd if we do something different it's gotta be it's just gotta go like and we say something goofy we say something goofy we're human beings yeah hopefully we're decent human beings it won't be too far out there and but yeah the the work that goes into this stuff is just immense but uh this is a more i this is i think people are enjoying it's just kind of our authentic selves it's like oh look these guys are on stage and they do a lot of stuff but oh they all like well three of them like uh back to the future or they jeff is totally unrelatable but it's fine it's yeah well beetle juice and frank the tanker going against wolverine and Luke Skywalker that's right yeah i'll take that any day jeff me we're gonna win away yeah that's it that's a lot of the feedback that we've gotten on this too is like uh this is just completely another lead no no plan just sit and have a conversation it's really human and sometimes we barely talk about agile at all i thought it was i definitely i was curious about where you were where both of those the origins of those things came from that's kind of a cool story for you jeff about where team mastery came from and um well it sounds like you guys kind of started in the same path we did with with crap root agile with this thing but it's gotta be like insane pressure jeff i mean scrum mastery came out and people just love it right and so then you follow up with product mastery and people just love it i mean are you writing team mastery thinking man this thing cannot be trash like this thing has gotta be i mean does that add anything to it um no i see what you're saying i think i had a sort of ace at my sleeve an accidental ace at my sleeve if you like in that um i went down because this was going to be so expensive to produce the way that i wanted it to be um i was going to have to stump up a lot of cash to get it get it going funding it myself i went down a kickstarter route yep and um that got a lot of support already and so that kind of took the pressure off a little bit put a little bit of different type of pressure on but also there were quite a few people actually wanted to get involved in helping me so i had about 15 people or so who voluntarily helped me critique it while it was while it was being written um you know and actually contributing some of their experiences and so i was getting the feedback while it was going from people the kind of people who were going to read it and you know they've already committed their money so they want it to be good so i knew their feedback was going to be useful and so yeah i think that that that was a big big help it wasn't a conscious approach as such um but it certainly certainly helped cool so as we get close to the time box um you know how can uh i mean i'm not sure like Todd and i are doing a lot of like you know online courses now we've worked with zoom and mural we're kind of figuring out that landscape and people seem super happy you know can people take classes from you guys now are you doing the online virtual stuff um how can they connect with you like what are some of the offerings we got about we got about two or three minutes left like how can people kind of if they can go to classes do you have them offer on offer you know of course the books on amazon and a bunch of different sites like what kind of stuff do you want to get out there before we call this we call this done so i i'm not really doing a huge amount of training at the moment i haven't got any public courses at the moment i'm doing a lot of coaching so i'm working specifically with one or two clients um and that's that's taking up my time and that's my third one paul's got some really cool new workshops that he's come up with though that i think would be worth you guys having a look at but i won't talk them down paul can tell you about them thanks jack so i'm i've put my most recent thing as i've um i've put my book or my my improv sessions online so i'm doing some um five online improv start-up sessions based on the five chapters in my book for anyone that's keen to have a little bit of a look at how improv can help from an agile point of view help agile team members scrum masters or leaders pick up new uh communication creativity skills that type of things so i'm running the first one next month so if anyone and of course the benefit is that online anyone across the globe can can join so they're just five 90 minute sessions over five weeks nice so uh hit us in a tweet with that stuff we'll retweet it out we'll make sure people know about it and uh yeah i hope it's all right i'm sorry to interrupt i know you're in a bit of wine down here but um years ago so a lot of people that i've worked with it's the most common fear is public speaking the people are more more people are afraid and more afraid of public speaking than death and i find that incredible but i was one of those people that was absolutely paralyzed by public speaking and for someone who's who's made a job out of a lot of public speaking both in a training room and you know in a board room and in conferences that was a massive hurdle to get over and one of the biggest things that helped me with that was going along to an improv class knowing that actually i can develop the skills to be able to respond in the moment and trust myself and work things through without having a plan and i think there's there's there's so much to gain from that that kind of skill in the adult space not just from a team work not just from a leadership perspective but from a personal fulfillment and self confidence point of view i think it's an incredible skill to to invest in now i totally agree in the u.s here there's a an awesome young lady her name is jessie starin shoes and she does a lot of the improv stuff and i've had a chance to to work with her a little bit on shows and in some conferences and and her whole thing is she said something to me once and it stuck with me and it made me instantly a much more confident speaker um like i already like the attention so i like being on stage i'm one of those weirdos that i'm like sure i'll go give an hour long talk and not have a plan and just figure it out right but uh she's like you know the whole audience wants you to be successful yeah whether it's an improv session or whether it's a talk or whatever it is like they want you to do great they're there because they want something awesome it's like oh they're on my side and that for some reason in my brain that like took down a barrier and it took some pressure off and it's kind of an interesting thought so yeah i totally agree the improv stuff is uh what a great skill and plus i mean if you can have fun and just be a little goofy and no one really cares it's it's like all right that kind of just it's like it almost takes the pressure off yeah right i mean you need to check that out because yeah i'm not a big yeah we need to get Todd yeah i could use that skill we gotta get Todd in that class yeah i'm not i i am the opposite of ryan when he says that i'm like i gotta prepare for like 10 days yeah everybody wants me to bomb us no no no it's not gonna work out oh you're all welcome Todd and we'll have to join us yeah i'll have to check it out well guys we'll let you get on with your evening we know that uh it's your nighttime over there and you got stuff to do and probably dinner and family and all that fun stuff so let you wind down your day uh thanks for joining us great to check guys that's fun yeah that is hope we do it again sometime real soon okay you guys all the best take care guys