 Yeah, yeah, so it's more soup than than stew Yeah, it's a spaghetti sauce that tastes like Mmm, and it's got odd ingredients like cinnamon and chocolate Chocolate I don't know about the cinnamon though. It's not overpowering. It's it's I bet that's good It is there's a restaurant near me that serves a spaghetti with chili on it. Yeah I'm just oh street by the way Something that arrived arose in that neck of the woods There's a name for it. I can't remember what it's called We call it their conies spaghetti. That's what I was trying to think of. Yeah There's not quite enough Filipino cuisine restaurants here in Cleveland more needs more We have a couple of those I lean never wants to eat it and though. She says they're not good Yeah, she wants home cooking. Yeah, that's the problem once her mom or grandma is cooking Lola Felicia's cooking. That's what she wants. There's a little Felicia too. Oh, yeah, Felicia, too Yeah, see it's basically it being anonymous to say 60 seconds you guys ready. Yeah, sure Let's do this. I'm scared Tom. Hold me. Oh You'll be fine Think of it like doing a podcast It's a Google hangout we're all on this together Imagine instead of a really stressful national television show. It's just a podcast. Oh wait, you've done both of those It's all mostly though. I'm just now thinking of all the food I can't get I Man, I still have Mario's pizza taste 15 seconds. I want to chili mac really badly I want I want me full Zedia. Sarah. Are you ready to do the open? It's gone Sure, I can do it again four three two one Thanks to everyone who supports daily tech news show directly to find out more ahead to daily tech news show comm slash support This is the daily tech news show for Friday, September 28th in Los Angeles. I'm Tom Merritt I'm Sarah Lane from Studio Feline and from the fringes of LA County. I'm Roger Chang and of course This is our roundtable show once a month We expand our show into a full-fledged one-hour roundtable discussion with Sarah myself and our guests joining us today Patrick Norton from tech thing.com and AV excel welcome back Patrick. Thank you And Ryan shroud from PC purr.com. It's been a little while longer since we've had you on Ryan Good to have you back too. It is. Thanks. Thanks for having me and as every Friday We have Len Peralta illustrating the show Len are your drawing fingers ready my drawing fingers are always ready That's what I always say about you Constantly people are like just stop all the time. It's us. I always hear that weird. It's creepy Okay, well all of our topics today cover the tech news. We're gonna start with a few tech things you should know Facebook says it discovered an attack earlier this week that affected up to 50 million Users attackers were able to exploit the view as feature to copy access tokens So view as lets you see what your page looks like to someone else on Facebook who might be checking it out A bug was loading the video uploader during the view as session Which incorrectly created a single sign-on token using the identity of the person you were viewing as not actually you attackers did this intentionally and then copied those tokens Facebook says it has patched the Vulnerability and logged out more than 90 million accounts in validating previously issued tokens Because only the tokens were accessed the company says users don't need to change passwords law enforcement is investigating You should probably still change your password. I mean, it's never a bad idea But but I get what they're saying which is they didn't access the password at all They access the token that's set after the password. So Yeah CNBC reports the US SEC and Tesla CEO Elon Musk had agreed to settlement fraud To a settlement over fraud allegations where Musk and Tesla would pay fines Musk would step down as chairman of Tesla for two years and two new independent directors would be appointed to Tesla's board That was going to avoid the lawsuit from yesterday, but instead of taking that and Not having to admit guilt Musk refused the sign the deal CNBC said he didn't feel it would be truthful to himself He has called the allegations unjustified and the Tesla board issued a statement expressing full confidence in musk Of course musk is a large part of that board. So the saga continues Spiegel online and course report that Spotify has begun emailing some users of its premium for family plans in Germany The US and two other markets asking for GPS data to confirm that they all live at the same address Yes, the family plan the email contains a link to a page that states Spotify will only use the GPS data to verify location Not for anything else Spotify responded to court saying it's testing improvements to the user experience of premium for Spotify Spotify's average revenue per user fell 12% in Q2 Might be something to think about TechCrunch reports that Spotify has since ended the test Real quickly Google began rolling out where OS 2.1 to watch this Friday the new interface focuses on fitness and notifications Also improves some of the responsiveness and battery life Apple won an appeal against a decision that it had infringed patents held by the University of Wisconsin Madison and iPhone Processors the US federal court circuit court of appeals in Washington DC ruled that no reasonable juror could have determined That Apple indeed infringed on that patent US district court in Fresno, California Denied a joint federal and state task force request to hold Facebook and contempt of court for not providing wiretap access to Facebook messenger calls This was in relation to a probe of an international criminal gang A US International Trade Commission judge declined Qualcomm's request to block the import of iPhones with Intel chips that are subject to a patent dispute The judge found that Apple's iPhones violated one of Qualcomm's patents on power management But the denying import was not in the public interest All right folks That's a quick look at stuff if you want all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes Be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines Com all right. Let's start with a little discussion about Intel Patrick Norton. I know you have some thoughts on this I'll go ahead and set it up for you Intel's interim CEO Bob's one announced Friday It will prioritize production of Xeon and core processors and has enough supplies to meet its full year revenue targets The company has been catering more to data centers, but expects growth in the PC market this year for the first time since 2011 okay now Intel also said that yields are improving for 10 nanometer chips and it still expects volume production in 2019 so this sounds like good news What are your thoughts? Oh boy, so I'm gonna give a shout out to Ryan to jump in at any time What's interesting about this is is digit times, which we effectively think of as the great rumor mill of all things The 5050 riverbill right right, but One of the things that showed up there and has been repeated in other places is that I want to say like the CEO of Compile electronics and a couple others are basically saying like yeah We can't get enough processors to build notebooks Q4's the holiday shopping season is going to be a hot mess And there's also a lot of suggestion that there's not enough Xeon processors To go around to go into servers and you know, this is compounding Ryan and I have a game Which goes like God We're starting to feel guilty because there's just not a lot of nice things to say about Intel right now That Intel is making amazing amounts of money. They have a ton of profitable businesses But as enthusiasts Intel kind of like wandered away from us as a market You know high-end gamers people doing video editing and they just seemed like you know, they'll be fine They have nowhere else to go We'll just take what we give them Which was a reasonable assumption if you're you know that arrogant and then something really strange happened They slipped on on a process technology and they they kind of went from two years ahead and delivering a new process technology IE, you know making everything smaller and fitting more chips on a die, which gives them also improvements in power consumption and improvements in overall, you know computing power and You know, they went from like every two years for forever then it's like oh, you know it took like three years to do that sort of last 14 nanometer jump in 2014 and then We're still waiting for the jump to 10 nanometer And in the meantime Intel's kind of gone from two years ahead of competition to actually being behind And this gets really interesting because a TSMC is now delivering their seven nanometer processes which is roughly equivalent to Intel's 10 nanometer process and Work it's really kind of painful is the fact that arm just kind of keeps showing up everywhere And the volume of arm processors keep getting larger and the argument back in the day was that Intel's Well, our superior cuss, you know, basically like arms like you could build it anywhere Well lice is it to you you can customize it. We barely use any power and oh my god, we've lost Sarah I've knocked I've bored Sarah so thoroughly. She's That till you called her out Patrick Well, it's just all of a sudden there was a big empty Screen and I was like oh medic So but you know, but Intel was always like, ah, you know what our superior Manufacturing we're gonna keep you know moving forward a processor. We got more law on our side And that was gonna negate sort of whatever advantages arm thought it had and to put this into Perspective right, you know, you know a few years ago Intel was selling like a hundred million desktop chips you much larger margins much higher cost But arm shipped or actually licensed I want to say 50 billion chips between 1991 and 2013 then 50 billion chips between 2013 and 2017 And they expect to ship the next hundred billion chips by like, you know, 2022 2023 or so so Where this gets interesting is when we start looking at laptops and we we see the arm processors starting to open low-end laptops Amel Apple's basically starting to seed the rumors since Apple doesn't have leaks Therefore everything that is about Apple is either a guess or leak from official part of Apple That Apple's gonna start replacing Intel CPUs and their laptops with their own a series, you know, I don't know the 14 the 15 That that Apple's actually gonna stop using Intel processors and their laptops Which may not be a huge volume, but it's incredibly prestigious and they're talking about using their own Apple thinks They can get their own processors fast enough to replace the Intel chips by like 2020 That's the big rumor that showed up on Bloomberg not too long ago meanwhile as AMD's like hey out of nowhere last year we got a bad-ass desktop processor and we're gonna give you a lot more cores for a lot less money AMD's looking to actually have something like 30% of the global desktop market by the end of this year You know not only is AMD profitable AMD is actually taking a huge chunk of the desktop market, which is a place where Intel has traditionally had what I will affectionately call a tremendous, you know, I Won't say monopoly, but you know, there's just wasn't anything Like that. Yeah, that won't get me, you know, that won't have a lawyer beating on my door saying don't say that You know, and if you take a look at if you go to PC purr.com slash leaderboard That's the collection of builds that Ryan and his crew put together over at PC purr and something you'll notice about this You know, it doesn't matter if you're looking at the dream system, which is like $3,300 or the low-end like I have no money $500 system, but you're talking about Every single one of those chips unless one has changed and I missed it having a oh look There's a there's a Ryzen AMD Ryzen AMD Ryzen AMD Ryzen AMD Ryzen AMD Ryzen Because when you talk about multi-core processing, which is pretty much everything in computing and You know Ryan feel free to point out that I'm going to get a bunch of nasty emails tweets about this When you look at overall performance It's better to have a lot of fast cores than a few slightly faster cores Or at least the way kind of I approach it, but I mean, I would say that's really dependent on workload, right? so It's a really interesting environment that Intel finds itself in now because it is it's basically Being attacked at at every front that it has in this battle in the in the server workspace against AMD epic and a little bit from the arm Designs there is like what qualcoms doing with their always connected PCs and kind of going after the battery life massively connected Systems you look at Ryzen threadrepper going after workstation. There's there's a lot of there's a lot of angles of attack on Intel But as you pointed out at the beginning Patrick, they still made They had like 16 billion dollars in profit last year like they're they're still pumping out Parts, they're still they're still a very high margin company AMD is profitable for the first time But you know Intel's R&D budget Exceeds all of the revenue AMD had last year, right? So it's and and I'm as big a proponent of Ryzen and and all this All all the AMD products and the arm products and the Qualcomm products as anybody But it's I think sometimes it's easy to lose sight of just the size and the behemoth that Intel is and what it represents and they definitely screwed up right they definitely kind of fell out of their way and Writing that ship is a long process. It's not something that happens In a couple of quarters It felt to me like percentage was at least had an instinct of where to go to do that and it was going to be a long process So losing him midstream like this certainly can't help He was a polarizing figure, I think he he definitely had Intel in all the right places financially And he knew he had a he had a good idea of how to maintain margins and revenue but I think you could look at it in that he He failed from the point of view of he came in from the manufacturing side of things, right? That's that that's his pedigree and that is the area that stalled out and is causing the problems that they're seeing now The problems with 10 nanometer are what's causing the shortages with 14 nanometer Which is causing them to have to have you know their interim CEO put out that letter that they did today Saying hey really sorry about that, but don't worry investors will start going to make all the money We said we were going to make Which is an interesting thing in and of itself But you know point about how big they are Yeah, right right. I mean they in mid-year in July They said actually as it turns out we think we're gonna make 4.5 billion more than we thought we were gonna make and you know Of course market loves that and they're saying even with these issues we're having We see we still think we're going to to get to all that and maybe maybe a little bit more But it doesn't mean that doesn't present opportunity for Qualcomm arm and AMD to take over some of the space because there is growth in PC and In server infrastructure edge computing all those areas are growing and AMD has has solutions to to offer Well, that's it's the classic case of being too big to where they they can't move fast enough to take on These you know and AMD is not a small company, but it's smaller than Intel so relatively speaking smaller companies Arm of course incredibly different than Intel because it's a designer not a manufacturer And so they can be arm is essentially attacking them from a million different directions at once because you have all of these different companies So it's hard for Intel to respond, especially when you're doing so well, right? Like it's the it's the classic case of yeah, but we still hit our bottom line We're still making a profit What's to panic about and and the thing to panic about is what happens a few years get down the road when the lead You built up Starts to decline and and ask Nokia how that feels It's true and and and as a result you've see the CEO Brankers and it just out you see new leadership coming in Roger Cadori coming in from AMD Jim Keller coming in from AMD and Apple and Tesla right the they're coming in there Their goal is to be more aggressive their goal is to shift the the mindset of the company and make them Product facing right like you've got to keep in mind Intel spent a tremendous amount of resources marketing drones, right? which is at best a tertiary market to them and You look at you know, it's easy to see how enthusiast people that follow what Patrick and I do Get angry because we saw stagnation in the core processor series While they talked about drones and IOT and all this other stuff There's really a whole streaming video department that Kersanich just closed up and sold to Verizon. Yep Yeah, it's it's funny when you look at it because like there's the I want to say the client competing group is like 30% of the revenue in 2017 data The big data stuff's like 20% The Internet of Things group like you're looking at like 19 billion dollars 16 billion dollars and then like 897 million dollars for the Internet of Things group and on one hand don't get me wrong I'll never make a billion dollars in a year. I'll probably well probably I'll certainly never have a company that makes a billion dollars So to make most of a billion dollars, you know in a year is a lot of money until you start looking at the competition for the Internet of Things Which is the 450 something arm licensees? You know and you're looking at you know Qualcomm and Apple and all of these other companies that are that are customizing basic arm designs and putting them everywhere Let's see. Okay. I've got one here. I've got one there I've got one two three four five in that closet I've got two in the other end of the house and They're certainly not making as much per chip But it's it's kind of crazy to look at Intel Intel was in arm licensee and they're like Yeah, and then a couple years later. They're like, oh my god. The cell phone thing is serious And they spent a bunch of years like trying to jumpstart mobile and that that certainly took off with at least one manufacturer in China for several minutes and then they you know, like, you know, Ryan was calling out there was like okay, you know, we're gonna do the Internet of Things and drones and They don't seem to be able to sort of jumpstart anything other than you know Which is a big deal Dren's wildfire in our chat rooms puts this forward I want to know what y'all think of it This is less a big company can't pivot problem and more of a this tech is Extremely hard to perfect problem It is That that's true. So there's two things two ways look at the process technology is incredibly difficult and I Honestly, don't believe anybody in the industry has better engineers than what Intel has and in the history that they have Did they have a hiccup in a bubble in this pipe? They absolutely did Obviously, they they kind of over promised and and have been under delivering on what they were able to do with 10 nanometers But it is incredibly hard to get some of this stuff, right? But I think a lot of it still comes down to Intel getting away from its core competency and trying to explore other areas of growth, which is You know not to not to make it a political debate It's one of the one of the pitfalls of being a public company is that if you're not growing and you're not trying to expand you look like you're shrinking and They wanted to avoid that and now they're they're kind of recovering here They you know, they've announced they're gonna do discrete graphics or they get into AI They're gonna do in deep learning and machine learning. So there's there's still plenty of places where they can grow in in areas that I think are more Approximate to their to their core competency. Well, and that's the key, right? You can't just keep relying on classical x86 architecture forever, you know, the writing's on the wall for that It's not gonna die, but the growth is limited. So where do you go? Where where should Intel go from there? That's the big question. Yeah, and I think AI machine learning is kind of the the first immediate step Autonomous, you know people talk about autonomous vehicles, but any kind of autonomous robotics Is really where we'll we'll see the next 10 years going Quantum computing is kind of the next step past silicon design, right? And and they have a significant group there IBM's another one But that's that's kind of that's one of those things that when somebody tries somebody really smart tries to talk to me about it I kind of glaze over and I'm like, I gotta go read another book or two before we can have this conversation Hold on. Let me let my virtual assistant understand this for me and explain it Yeah alright, well, I think You know, we could sit here kicking dirt on the the purported grave or not grave of Intel all day long But let's talk about some graphics cards when last we spoke It was about whether we would ever be able to afford graphics cards again, Ryan Thankfully that problem seems to be easing So let's turn our attention to voluntarily paying a lot of money for a graphics cord and by that I mean the NVIDIA 2080 the 2080 TI GPUs now that the dust has settled a little on those announcements, Ryan If you would help us understand what these cards actually do and what they're good for First of all, I want to compliment you on that that introductory piece right there. I never really thought about the analog to Before you were being forced to pay $1,200 for a video card and now you're being asked to voluntarily pay $1,200 for a video card Um, you know peak levels of performance. It's it's an interesting interesting shift So the the NVIDIA RTX 2080 2080 TI and eventually the 2070 Are particularly interesting for a couple reasons one is the price They they definitely kind of went up the stack in terms of cost, but they also introduced Different kinds of technology than you're used to seeing in graphics cards Which is why they moved from GTX to RTX a lot of its marketing a lot of it is you know Trying to to shift the narrative some so that they can can justify to everyone the the price changes But they added ray tracing acceleration into the silicon and they added AI compute into the silicon The AI compute is something that had existed before as part of their Volta architecture meant for Enterprise machine learning AI which is one of the areas that NVIDIA is is you know a leader in that field They're bringing that into the consumer GPUs For AI capabilities the first one is a is an image quality improvement called excuse me DLSS Deep learning super sampling which basically renders at a slightly lower resolution and then upscales it but is using a Machine learning an AI assisted process that they do a whole bunch of pre-compute on their side with the game beforehand And they send that library over to you through the GFE and the driver stack It's really interesting idea, and I think it's one of many areas where AI Will eventually permeate into gaming whether it be for animation or image quality or actual like NPC interactions And then the ray tracing acceleration is Interesting because I think if you followed graphics technology for a while or at any point Like ray tracing has always been known to be that that end goal for us if we could do Ray tracing fast enough you could create photorealistic imagery Without hacks without having to find these workarounds that the current technology of rasterization really depends on The idea is that you're computing the light source and just saying the lights over here show me what it looks like with light reflecting on it Yeah, you're essentially Simulating the photons moving through space and if you have an infinite amount of compute power You could simulate every ray of light casted from every light source and bouncing off every surface We're clearly not there yet, and it'll be a while, but the RT cores in the new Turing architecture in these parts accelerates the Essentially the hierarchical structure of a ray tracing simulation, and so they've they've were showed demos and examples of things it sounds simple when you say it out loud but like Reflections of certain things on windows and surfaces in a game and you think well, I already have reflections today What's the big deal? And then you start to realize that some of the tricks that you have to do if if if there is a light source or an effect That is off-screen it can't be reflected on Something on screen because the data is kind of removed from the system in a way to kind of make the system run faster It's one of those tricks of rasterization to make it look at but with ray tracing you get some of that back You have the potential to get some of that back shadows can be simulated very well I like to think of it as with rasterization You have to tell every surface what lights hitting it whereas with ray tracing you just tell the light where to go Yeah, yeah, it is and and the the hope is with ray tracing at some point You just don't have to you don't worry about any tricks. You don't have to try to You know get around any anything that might be holding it back But that's that's a performance issue over the long term But they in video claims they've made a significant jump with ray tracing performance because of this Acceleration logic in the part Now as a result of adding AI and RT support, they've made a much larger GPU It's probably I think 60 70 percent larger than the previous GPUs of the similar performance class or similar class You know 80 series 70 series But they've also gone up a lot in price right so the RTX 2080 is 799 for the founders edition and the 20 80 ti is 1199 for the founders edition. Yeah, and Those aren't totally unheard of prices because the Titan XP before it was 1199 But if you look at the 1080 ti it launched at 699 I believe So talking about a $500 price increase from 1080 ti to 20 80 ti Although I guess the what what Nvidia might say I don't mean to speak for them is this is halfway between the 1080 and the Titan This is this isn't just a successor to the 1080, right? No, actually, I was gonna tell you is that RTX technology is gonna deliver the holy grail of gaming Really should buy one now buy one now with every penny for all those games that will someday be made for it Yes, and that's where it gets slippery. So sorry Ryan. No, no in your right I think the the problem that reviewers and the enthusiast community had about this launch was that When the 10 series launched the 1080 was was noticeably faster than the 980 ti. It was like 25% faster or so and With this launch the 2080 Pretty much just matches the performance of the 1080 ti. Maybe a handful three four five percent faster No power consumption improvements really maybe a tiny bit there So there wasn't this jump that people kind of expected But you did get this price increase right the 1080 launched at 499 I believe and now we're launching this it's 699 799 It's it's a it's a big it's a big jump and a lot of what Patrick's right a lot of what Nvidia's answer to that is You know is that this RTX technology is is going to be very different than what you've seen before The problem is we don't have the games for we don't have You know battlefield 5 is going to introduce it It was delayed a month and I don't think the RTX stuff is going to be in there on launch day It's going to be a patch that will come later. So there's a legitimate argument to have about Should you be buying into RTX technology today without the games and the titles to really support it There will be some and I you know Nvidia released a list of I think 18 games that maybe will support Either ray tracing or deep learning super sampling or both Which is which is a strong a strong allotment But we don't have them today like when reviews came out We didn't have anything to really test with except these kind of pre-made Can demos that they that they provided I feel like you know the way this goes is the 2080 isn't an improvement in power over the 1080 the 2080 is an improvement in an entirely new capability and the response Reasonable response could be that's great when I can use it I'll want that but for the time being couldn't you just please give me a successor to the 1080 That's more powerful and and and the argument back against that is but if we don't put the 2080 out there It won't create the market that will cause the software to be built for it. It's a little of the chicken and egg problem It definitely is the if you look at it if you're if you're from Nvidia's perspective You kind of look at it as they can raise prices because there's not any competition at the high end Right the the AMD Vega cards Lacked against the 10 series already so the 20 series is coming out AMD doesn't really have anything on its road map So it there's an environment in place where the competition level is reduced and Nvidia is able to raise these prices and they don't really have anything pressuring them to to go the other direction and You know, it's it's very similar to when the Apple iPhone 10 launched the prices went up and everybody went oh my gosh I can't believe these prices went up and guess what it was their best-selling phone for the two quarters You know the four quarters that's been out, right? And that's in via sees that and goes well I want to I want to have higher profit margins and I want to hire average price per unit And so they're like well, we'll give it a shot in worst-case scenario If they don't sell out we kind of go through this process of maybe lowering prices or doing rebates or whatever or AMD releases something that's a surprise to us and then we readjust and You know, I don't think I don't think there was worried about losing goodwill of the community as much of the community would like them to be worried about it But true I so so in the end though if I'm a consumer sitting there ready to buy a graphics card for my next machine Is it the smart thing to do to just buy a 1080 then? Yeah, I mean it's hard. It's hard to say no to that right if you look at 1080 ti 1080 today You could buy them new for you can buy 1080 ti I think for like 499 Maybe yeah 479 is that right higher hold that thought. Okay, maybe I'm thinking of 1080. I think maybe yeah I need to I know partially my thoughts on this are kind of skewed because I'm looking for a sub 250 millimeter card God is usually more expensive than a full-size card. Yeah, but but 479 sounds I think I think that's that's 1080 1080 ti is probably closer to 6 650 at this point I think that what I was looking at is you can get 100 to 150 dollars less You can get a 1080 ti which is gonna have near the same performance level as a 2080 that's gonna, you know be more expensive And if you're willing to take the chance on used hardware if you go to eBay you can You can get a lot of really inexpensive stuff as mining has fallen off and people start to sell out that hardware obviously you're taking a risk on the longevity and how hard these cards have been worked and what the what the Heating heat and cooling and all that stuff has been like for that product But I think that's where you might be able to find a 1080 ti for 499 But then you're you've got warranty questions a bunch of other stuff to digest I mean I can find one on eBay right now for 410, but if I want new from new egg, it's listed at 700 Okay, all right So yeah, I mean as I think as long as the 10 series cards exist new in the channel Which I actually don't think will be very long based on what some of their partners have told me When production actually stopped and what that inventory was like a lot of people were holding off on their purchases Until these 20 series cards were announced and what the reviews look like and now I think you'll see a lot of people doing What you're suggesting Tom is they're just yeah, I don't know we're just I think I'm gonna get that 1080 now I was waiting And and now they'll do that that'll buy up and then eventually you kind of won't have that option anymore And we'll have to see what the market looks like then if AMD has progressed or Pricing is lower on the RTX units or anything I guess how long I mean I know this is an impossible question, but if you had to guess how long do you think that is before the channel? Runs out of 10 series. I would say It would shock me if by the end of the year that wasn't the case that we'd be out Yeah, but then all of those Bitcoin miners will be dumping their old 1080s. That's true You're already I mean you're already starting to see it. Yeah, well, let me ask a quick question So if that's the case say that the 10 the 10 series literally is sold out and they no more They're done and they're moving on to the 20 series Does that leave an opening for AMD to kind of position their wares in that space where hey You know what? You don't you don't need to mortgage or you know You're home to buy a new video card You can get something not as powerful, but you know what you're not you're not selling off your kids to pay for it Yeah, I mean and that's what they should do right if you're if you're AMD if you're the Radeon group You need to be looking at any kind of messaging you can do Around hey, we're providing you you know, you're not gonna be the top performer, but you say hey if you if you're one of the 10 million people that has a 1440p monitor or below that plays PC games on triple-a titles our graphics are is gonna be perfect for you and If you're AMD you're also kind of you're also kind of lucky that Nvidia wasn't more aggressive on pricing That means they don't have to AMD doesn't have to reduce their prices to remain competitive In the space if they want to stay at you know, 499 or whatever and and and kind of Totally undercut with the 2080 and the 2070 will be priced at they are they're able to do that And I think you're right. They should they should be talking about gaming Gaming without a car, you know less than a car payment type of thing it's also kind of crazy that there actually is now that You know the the 1070s the 1080s the 1060s the 1080 ti's are You know at around or near MSRP and the 2080s and the 2070s are going to be shipping There's finally actually AMD parts in the pipeline, which for so much of the last year It was like they launched they disappeared. There were several around Christmas. They disappeared Where were the AMD cards this spring? Nobody knows and You know now that they're getting Sort of beat up on technology on one side and performance and price on the other side They're in the channel so I think I think I think AMD is gonna be really popular some if if If you know if the prices aren't really good on the 20 series Nvidia cards around around Friday, I think it's gonna be a great black Friday for AMD GPUs if they can keep the channel full I think it's it's it's easy to forget literally Six months ago 12 months ago how screwed up the GPU market was right on our on this week in computer hardware with Patrick And I every week we would talk about I don't know how expensive or all the video cards you can't buy today, you know and That was it lasted a long time We had fallout from you know all the all the other people that make power supplies and cases and keyboards And any other component that that would normally be bought in kind of tandem with a new PC build They were like, uh, well, I'm not I can't buy a video card. I can't afford it Why would I bother upgrading the rest of my system and now work work? We're back to a It's hard to say a sane spot in the market, but Nvidia kind of Kind of edge just in a little bit with the with the pricing Well, this actually dovetails very nicely into our first advisor discussion of two today And that is if you are going to build a PC based on price fluctuations And and and and what's available and who should do this That is going to be our next topic for the next few minutes. So Patrick if I were to say I'd like to build my own PC Would you recommend it to me and and and why based on what I might want to do with it? Yes, because then I could have you on tech thing and we Could do Sounds like a segment pitch suddenly that's great It's gonna be great. Get your credit card. We're going I you know the the reason that I I think this is interesting is you know, I'm sort of the lazy folks who say And I just want you know, all of you know, I just want to buy my computer and maybe I'll pay a premium for it however it does sound like putting cobbling together your own PC and Over the last couple of years has actually been a bit problematic based on lots of factors. So where are we now? Well, a GPUs are affordable again. There's some tremendous Like there's some amazing processors from AMD the stuff from Intel is good I just I've just built all the stuff I've built in the last year has been AMD because I'm getting more cores than I Spend a lot of time with video. So I just want more cores to render faster I think part of it's like if you go to PC parts picker Or if you go to pc per dot com or if you go to new egg dot com and you get excited looking at all the listings You should build a pc You know, if you if you're looking at case designs and thinking like that's just Exquisite, uh, if you want to build a mini itx pc I think you should build a pc If you are thinking like, you know, if if you're not a gamer if you don't care about leds on your motherboard If if you just want that if you just want to cut a check and have a computer You know go to del go to pujit systems go to any of a number of of either major or boutique builders and buy a pc Because they all do good work, you know, you can you can you know Put your credit card number in in a box from del or lenovo or pujit or whoever is going to show up a few days later And they'll support it and they deal with the warranty issues and and they burn it into they set everything up Um, I mean, I'll be honest with you if you're not excited I mean, I should say there's kind of two things one if you're not excited by looking at computer parts Don't build a pc Or two if you can't look at a pile of computer parts and be like I want this and this and this and this Um, you know when I built my 1800x no one Would have been able to provide me a pre-built system with an 1800x inside of it So it was the only way I could get that If you're worried about Longevity and you want to pick components are going to last longer. Uh, you know, there's another running joke along with So let's see how much the expensive gpu's you can't buy are this week. Um, you know, another thing has been like Most cpu's from record cpu's most power supplies and reputable manufacturers have like a 10 year warranty now You know, and you're starting to look at situations where you know, like I've I've got some some power supplies That are on my second or third pc If you've got a pc that you know, you've been sitting on maybe maybe it's three years old No, would have upgraded it last year, but I couldn't buy a gpu You know, if you don't care about the case buy a new motherboard a new processor and a new gpu Um, you know and replace the guts that would be a time to build a pc. Um, you know, it's uh You know ryzen's given you amazing amounts of computing power for less money gpu's are affordable again Really for me though, if you want to build a computer build a computer If you have a very specific list of parts you want to build or for a specific situation You know build a computer, um You know for a lot of people it's okay to you know, to be like, yeah, I'm over it. I'm done just Send me a box, uh, and let me plug it in and go on my merry way and that's okay too Ryan, what are your thoughts on that? Yeah, you know, if I am looking to save money But I don't necessarily know what exact parts I want But they will be advantageous to me if I you know figure it out You know, what are my options? so I think patrick is correct in that PC building and Used to be and tom could back me up on this one probably it used to be when you would build a pc It was to save money right and now it's not it's not really how it works anymore Right, if you just want a computer a dell or an hp from a big box store You go to costco or something like that you're going to get a lot of value there And I find that even with with notebooks a lot of times I'll be browsing through costco and I'll see this dell xps 13 You know, I'm like, oh wow, that's several hundred dollars less than they were selling on their own website And that's where I would buy my own machines um Building a pc to save money can be done But it's that's more art than science at this point. That is kind of following the rebates checking out you know pcpartpicker.com or Camel camel camel or whatever kind of seeing where the dips are it's like checking the stock market almost to some degree So if you like if you get excited by a pile of parts and you like couponing then Yes And and I think I do think that's all in this world More people should build pc's if only because you're learning while you're doing it you're understanding the technology Um, is are there more headaches? Yes, because now you're responsible for support and troubleshooting and that type of stuff Uh, but you you learn you're learning as you're going it's one of the things uh, you know When my nephew wanted a pc to do pc gaming Uh, he asked me for a computer and I said no we're going to build one and kind of walked him through it And taught him how to how to do that now whether or not he retains that and does it in the future I don't know that's on him, but uh, I think from a Pricing standpoint, you're always going to get cheaper if you do oem unless you want Unless you're like I need three gpu's and 128 gigs of ram and 32 cores, right? Then you're getting into super high-end boutique builders and patrick try building your own will save you money there But from a price standpoint today I could say that there's no reason to not build a computer from a cost standpoint There wait say that again, so So there's no there's no there phrase that it used to be you know three months ago six months ago I wouldn't tell you to build a computer because the price of memory was so high the price of graphics cards were so high Everything has settled back down memory is still expensive. It's not going to it's not going to change as it turns out Uh price is basically not a factor. You're not going to save money necessarily Although maybe if you play it right you could you're not going to spend more money Which used to be the case a few months ago. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's right. Okay Uh, it you mentioned memory memory prices are high. Is that the only one to watch out for as far as cost? being way up there these days I mean, I think so I think that's the only thing that is outside the bounds of where we feel like it should be right but As I as I watched companies like micron and uh samsung and sk hynex and all their Production capabilities. There's nothing that's going to come online anytime soon where we're going to see a sudden 20 drop In in prices like we did with gpus mining died prices went down done with memory I don't think we're going to see that if it does come back down. It's going to be a very gradual thing And samsung even said they're going to slow down their production Weird well, they were samsung announced that they were bringing on the equivalent of 20 of the world's current memory fabrication capability this year So everybody's like, whoo And I think you know, not that not that that that large organizations talk in the background But I think, you know, maybe You know hynex and intel and micron all looked at samsung like sent a raised eyebrows Really really you think that's smooth But but I mean it's you know, the memory has been on this insane ride for the last 18 months And I don't see any memory manufacturer having any interest in going back to let's see Oh, yeah, it was 60 dollars for 16 gigabytes of corsair, you know, vengeance gdr4 ram In 2016 and it peaked like I want to say in in february 15 at like 220 dollars for 16 gigabytes now It's at 150. I mean, I I I love corsair and micron and everybody else But I don't see any of them being like, yeah We should definitely drive things back to the point where you can get two sticks of ram. Yeah with an outburger Um, you know, it's double double double. Yeah, I mean we got really I mean, you know 16 gigabytes went from like 120 bucks in in the tail end of 2015 Down to like 65 70 bucks in the middle of 20 for most 2016 And it didn't get back up above 120 bucks until 2017 So we had this long long spell where memory was really cheap Uh, and then it just went berserk uh in 2017 along with everything else that went into a pc You know, okay, so so so for somebody who would be interested in building a pc that was um You know the best pc I could have for editing a lot of video, which I do these days, right? But I don't necessarily You know, I don't necessarily know exactly what purse I need And sounds like I'm not necessarily going to save a lot of money doing this It's more of a you know a hobbyist idea, but I could get the best pc for my money Where do I go? Where do I go to find out more about what how do I put these parts together if I don't really know this ahead of time Where Ryan where could they go? If only they were a place, I mean obviously self-centering I would say pcpert.com and the leaderboard there if you look at that dream system It is kind of aimed at The you know, I think it's a 16 core 32 thread part. That's going to be a good video editing solution Price-wise it's going to be reasonable and probably the prices are a little bit lower than what you even see there In terms of pricing PC part pickers the best spot to go. They have tremendous tools that let you Pick and part together systems. They track prices over time. They have recommendations from other users That's something where you can build a system and then save that system And you can kind of watch the price of it over time if you don't want to buy today It's a good kind of note keeping system as well There are a lot of places like that, you know, depending on how how Brave you are you can dive into some of the the DIY parts of the reddit community and And ask questions about what you should build But I think there's still plenty of outlets for that. I want to give a shout out also I mentioned them before Puget systems, um, which is a boutique manufacturer Far far north of where I'm sitting right now, but they have they've spent a lot of time Benchmarking especially for people who are content creators if you're looking at premiere or photoshop You know where they've looked at cpu performance gpu performance like what the difference is and you know like I'm looking at a benchmark where they look at gtx 10 60 10 70 1080 1080 ti titan xp titan v And looking at like live frame live playback and exporting and what spending, you know, you know What doubling or tripling the cost of your gpu does to the performance of particular things inside of premiere pro for example They've done similar stuff for You know after effects photoshop You know and and I gotta I gotta give them a shout out for that because There's a lot of theory and there's a lot of stuff you can find in forums But this is one of the only places where somebody's really sat down And looked at you know individual component performance And you know they may not be the definitive benchmarks, but there are a lot more They're going to find at most places and you can look at like oh if I do this with you know If I put this much cpu into it I get these results or oh, I may want to concentrate more on gpu there's a lot of mythology uh around content creation systems and uh You know on one level, you know the simplest one is just buy everything um Because you know, you know if you're doing constant production like yeah Actually, you'll save a bunch of time if you have 64 gigabytes of ram and a massive processor and you know several terabytes of ssd storage But you know, that's also one of those things. You also have to cut that check for all of that stuff which gets emotionally traumatic when I could have bought a used car um Well, I like this idea that you mentioned about uh Building a pc with with your kid or even your nephew or niece, you know to kind of say, okay You want a great video game machine? You're gonna have to build it yourself But I bet a lot of parents are put off by that because they've never done it themselves True before is is there a good resource for someone like that who just wants to start Putting it together and they they don't know what parts plug into what other parts That's uh, you know that is that is almost like a lost art Is the explaining at that at a basic level actually when I when I did that PC building set up with my nephew. It was probably three years ago Maybe more than that now we did we recorded it, right? And we I walked him through the process kind of explained things as we went um So that that video is out there. I'm trying to remember even what it would be on our youtube.com Slash pc per channel building a pc. I think it was a three part three part series, but uh there You know, again, if you're brave enough Dive into the youtube world and talk about how to build a pc But you do want to you know get advice from somebody find somebody either At your work or a friend of a friend that has done it before that can maybe guide you hold your hand along the way because Even though I think it's way more simple than it was a decade ago There's still areas where You know, you're either even if you don't make the wrong decision You're going to have this indecisiveness that can wear you out during the process just mentally fatigue you And kind of getting some of those questions answered and assuring you and along the way would be would be very helpful Well, uh, folks if you've got ideas about this as well Send send us your resources feedback at daily tech news show.com as we know a lot of you guys out there Have done this, uh, and maybe you've recently learned how to do it yourself So so share the love and share the wisdom with everybody else All right, so if you are an advisor on the show out at patreon.com slash dtns You get to suggest topics for the round table every month Usually we would get a bunch of suggestions And uh, and we put them up for a vote this month. We got two great suggestions. So we're doing two Advisor topics and the second one is our $1,000 and more cell phones really worth it For one to two years of use Oh, I sure hope so Sarah says I think you just bought an iphone 10 s max But uh, here's the thing I want to I want to before I get opinions from the from the panel here I want to point out a few stories that just came out in the last couple of days Well, a couple of stories and one fact ebay is now offering wireless plans from red pocket mobile It's an mvno As an add-on option when you buy a used phone on ebay So you can certainly get a great phone for cheaper if you do that And even sign up for a plan right there as you're buying it at and t has announced They plan to build small data centers around the us to support cloud computing over 5g now This is a couple of years down the road, obviously But the idea is that cheaper phones without as much processing power or memory Could be used to rely on the fast 5g connection to do a lot of the processing That say an iphone or a samsung galaxy do locally uh, finally Worldwide kos kai i like to call it chaos uh is a mod of firefox os that is now Really popular it uses web apps to power inexpensive phones. So you're talking 10 20 dollar phones Uh geo nokia the banana phone uses kos and it is now the number two operating system to android in india 40 million phones worldwide run on it So now more than ever before these mid-range phones and sometimes feature phones that run chaos Can do a lot of the things that a smartphone can Is it still worth it? Is there still some reason to say well if you have the means you really should get that top end phone For just two years Well, and that's the other side of his question, right? Uh, I think phones are lasting longer than two years these days as well I think you know, that's the other thing is do you need to replace it every two years anymore? Well, you know, it's it's uh, I I did just get a new iphone and you know very happy with it However, I did the last um iphone I had was the sub and plus. So it has been a two-year cycle I I skipped the whole 10 last year and You know My my iphone my my previous iphone. Yeah, shattered screen. It had all sorts of problems But it just started to it started to slow down You know, it was like a senior citizen of phones. The you know, the screen wasn't very bright anymore Things didn't really work the way that they were supposed to work anymore And that was I limped along barely two years So, okay, sure You know, if you if you have the means the financial means and and and the interest to get a new New phone whether it's you know, whatever it is every year great Most people do not so. Yeah, how long do you limp along before you have to get a new? A new phone when it comes to laptops. I mean I can use the same laptop up to about 10 years, you know Pressed I will do it when it comes to smartphones. It's a little bit different I do find that they they degrade a lot more. Um easily. No, it doesn't mean that You need to buy the most expensive phone But which was you know, a little bit of a splurge on my part, but but I don't know I you know, I'll open this up to the rest of the group You know, do we think that smartphones are kind of along the same lines as as as PCs I Oh really quick for my personal try. I have a three-year-old Little over three three and a half year old phone It's a galaxy s6 the only reason I moved that from the nexus Was it the the second third nexus? Was that I wanted real-time encryption on the phone and the nexus couldn't do that And that's why I got the phone but other than that the phone's fine It work does everything does the mapping Does all my social media does all the pictures and stuff I don't see a reason to upgrade unless this breaks Or you know, somehow there's an application that I really want to use And it doesn't run very well on it I I don't know. There's so many variables on this one. Um, the only reason I upgraded my phone We're relaxed The the closest thing I could come to an excuse for upgrading my phone would be that the Compass module no longer worked and it drives me insane because I use a lot of astronomy apps and navigation apps And no, you know, and that was a known issue with the iphone 6 6 6s But you know, I picked that up in 2015. I was still using it three years later and but You know, we needed to get a cell phone for my son to use. So it's like, okay. He can take my six and I'll get I picked up a phone This moto g6. I'm running right now cost a quarter of the price for what I paid for the 128 gigabyte iphone 6 Or 6s it all kind of bleeds. I'm pretty sure it's a 6 You know, and I probably I probably have destroyed more screens than the rest of the people On the show today combined. I feel comfortable I finally Well, I mean, I I literally I got the iphone 6 I want to say I bent the case and broke the screen in the first six days of ownership All right, you win You know And finally found a combination because I used to use these life proof cases where you could pretty much Fling the phone into the grand canyon hike down find it and pick it up and use it again Life proof story Yeah, not quite but close the life proof case has started falling apart. So I finally found a combination of like the Uh, I got to give a shout out. There's a couple companies on amazon that give that creates Um, tempered glass screen protectors. They're amazing. Um, I haven't since I started using those I haven't actually broke a screen. Uh knock on wood But uh, it's been uh, you know, and I found a case to protect it But it it amazes me that some people I know some people that like my wife Um used her iphone for like six years and it got to the point where You know, everything was flawless on it. Everything was perfect on it. Nothing was problematic with it But we were no longer getting operating system security updates as apps were starting to not work with it Like come on, we'll get you a new phone. The camera will be really nice. Um, I also know people who upgrade every single year um, which I find Excessive, um, but if you got to discretionary income and you enjoy it by all means Uh, I I think it's I think it's interesting because I believe Most people that you would ask this question to They would say no, you don't need a A $1,000 phone every year or two. However They sell an awful lot of $1,000 phones every year Right indicating indicating that some people are still doing this and I I look at it from, you know Maybe a slightly skewed perspective as maybe most many of us do that that work in this in this field um It's the device that you use the most by a significant margin if I look at my wife, for example She uses her laptop Maybe twice a week, but she's on her. You know, she uses her phone A dozen times a day if not more right for calls messaging internet, uh, whatever, you know, searching movies Research anything she's doing is on is on that device. So It is a thousand dollars a year for a phone a lot it is and when you break it down to hey, are you willing to pay $100 a month to have the latest digital pocket device With you you start to go $100 a month. That's that feels like a lot but but in terms of use and and kind of After a laptop, uh, you know or or a pc, but I guess a laptop something you carry with you all the whole time I can't think of anything that gets more use in my day-to-day life than my phone I used to upgrade my laptop every 18 months. I just I would just run into a wall where I either storage or ram Uh limitations would would force me to do that. I stopped doing that around 2013 and now I no longer have on the tip of my tongue how old my laptop was I have to think about it I used to always know exactly what month I was in Uh phones are not there for me yet phones I can tell you immediately how long I've had a phone for Although it used to be at a year. I'd be struggling. Well, can I make it another year? Uh, and and recently that's become two years at two years. I start to feel like gosh I really wouldn't would like to have something a little snappier, right? It's it's a luxury thing, right? It's not it's not a painful like it doesn't work thing like roger's talking about it works fine But I just get a little like ah, but it it could be a little faster, right? Uh, I this is the first time we're at a year and I have the iphone 10 here that I'm talking about I I don't feel any of that. I feel like this is fine. I'm not I'm not tempted in the least We'll see in two years if it's still there, but I think the phones are getting The the the the specs in the phones are are better match for the advancements and software than they used to be Yeah Yeah I'm one of things I read an article and I wish I could remember who wrote the column But they were they were basically if you have last year's iphone you don't need this phone You know if you have last year's you know pixel 2 or or whatever the flagship was This is better But it's not like a thousand or $1,200 better if you have a two or three year old phone You may be looking at this camera going I want the precious And I will say it's the one thing like the moto the camera in the in the g6 is pretty impressive But the low light performance just gets spanked by all the flagships, but at the moment like I think I'd rather spend $300 or $400 on a discrete camera that'll have the equivalent photo performance than pay $1,000 for a phone That'll have that that that camera performance. It's it's Go ahead. No, I was gonna say the and the other the other side of it is what you talked about with the tempered glass I I would love to know I would make sure we get that link in the in the spreadsheet so that it goes in the show notes for people because I I on the case side have been using the x doria defense case and it has changed my my life because I no longer get scratches on my glass Not because it's covering the glass, but because it's got enough of a defense and this thing has been dropped several times Uh is is tough as nails So a lot of it now becomes less about I need to upgrade But did I did I protect my phone well enough that it survived for a couple? Yeah So we'll make sure to get those in there Amfilm tempered glass screen protectors. I'm sure there's other ones that are just as good Yeah, I have this Otter box Then on my phone that I got I because I bought my phone off amazon unlocked It's a god in either case for it. It was like 20 something bucks Great, my daughter uses this like a football when she gets throws it in She's just like no She'll throw it this thing bounces off wood Stucko cement and it's in no cracks still runs and this is the thing. I think People have been so used to being told like every year or something new you need to upgrade you need to upgrade Because it's something that's been pushed by the manufacturers as well as the phone companies, right? Carriers, I think we're a big driver on that one. Yeah, especially the carriers, right? You know sign up and you're gonna new blah blah blah Um, but you know at some point, you know, you can only surf the web so fast You know, you know, you I'm sure you could get a faster I could get a faster phone, but Like what would I really do with it? I'm not app heavy. I have like maybe 25 apps at most on my phone And those are the same 25 apps I've been using for the past six years And I think if if you're like roger I know a lot of you are and you you need a new phone for whatever reason These mid-range phones that we're talking about are plenty good. You don't need to buy that thousand dollar phone because Just being able to run apps, you know, the the hardware can handle that way better than it used to You know, I know this is obvious, but I always I always think of these conversations as what kind of car do you want to drive? You know, what is your comfort level? It's getting like that, isn't it? Yeah The expensive audio the situation. Yeah, like do you want a Mercedes? Do you care? You know, they you know, do you do you care about having a hybrid? There are all sorts of reasons that you would Want, you know The nicest phone possible great. Sure. Most of us just don't have that luxury some people do but most people don't So so let's talk about what are the apps like roger was saying that what are the apps you're actually using? You know of 25 apps. How many apps is roger actually opening per day five? Maybe Yeah, think about it most Yeah, think about that think about it, you know the comfort level the battery life You know stuff that actually matters more than you know, you know A lot of the bells and whistles that I think a lot of us get caught up in that that that quite honestly Don't matter as much Yeah, and that's one of the brilliances of kos Is is that it it made a point of using html 5 css based apps But still curating an app store So it was able to get the apps that people most often want to use the the whatsapps the twitters the facebooks Because it's easy to develop them if you already have a mobile website And and and people You know the idea of millions of apps is is enticing in the in the abstract But but like you said in in general, you know, I probably use five or six apps Every day yeah, me too. I've got google maps google play music slack feed lee the bbc news app pocket camp Instagram twitter the weather channel patreon tv time gmail safari and our groceries The weather channel. Yeah, and sarah you're a little cracker. I don't know if you saw my message, but but you're You know, what's weird is I didn't think you could do this Very well, but I run open vpn for android on my phone and it works pretty snappy Like it like I thought it would have been noticeably slower. It's not It's fantastic. I love this thing. I'm never gonna get rid of my phone The galaxy s6 forever Until they no longer updated and there's a new And before we wrap up this topic just round the horn i've had my phone for just about a year now Patrick, how long have you had yours? This moto g6 several weeks Before that that's right. You just got the g6. Ryan. What about you? Yeah, i'm guilty. That's two seven days Yeah, all right. All right. Uh, so so we are not a representative panel for the long Well, it was three years before that right and yeah, no, okay That's that's my son now has that phone. So it's it's closing in on four years at this time How about ryan before yours? I'm the yearly guy Year once a year. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, and sarah was a couple of years. So And she just got a new phone as well. All right. Well, uh, thank you folks For hanging out with us. I hope you enjoyed I hope you learned something and uh, I hope you're going to like lenn peralta's illustration Len, what did you write for us today? Well, we talked about a lot of really great things today Uh, but I went all the way back to the beginning of the show where we talked about the view as hack in facebook That's uh, that's what I drew. I drew this monster Viewing one of the I guess the representative of the 50 million people who were Hacked by this this little thing. Um Being scrutinized uh by a huge eye monster. I mean, I think this is just facebook It just does it works for the story today. Yeah, you're right a lot of stories. You're absolutely right It is sort of facebook and I know it wasn't you know, it's not as bad as it probably could have been but You know, I just like kind of given facebook a hard time And uh, what's also kind of neat about this image is that because it is a round table image. It's an 11 by 17 And uh, this is available right now in my online store And also if you're a patreon backer you will get this I believe in a month and a half Just by backing me at the dts lover level at d at patreon.com Forced slash lenn. Thank you lenn. That's awesome. Thank you Well, and thanks to everybody who uh, who makes our round table so fun every month We really enjoy these particularly patrick norton and ryan trout today Patrick let's start with you let folks know where they can keep up with all of your other work Oh my goodness, uh tech thing Tech thing dot com te k th i n g dot com the weekly show host with shannon morris and if you're into home theater And speakers and headphones and all that kind of stuff. Please check out avx cl dot com avxl That's the podcast I host with mr. Robert herron Where we talk about screens and protectors and speakers and avrs and headphones and music and source material and dogs And occasionally food recipes we wander sometimes Sounds like a perfect show Uh ryan trout, thank you to you as well So nice to see you and talk to you again Let folks know where they can keep up with all of your excellent work as well Uh, it's a first and foremost Twitter at ryan trout is there for that pc per dot com is where you can find all the hardware news the leaderboard the All the component products that we test are all done there And then of course patrick and I do this week in computer hardware as well Which is at twit.tv slash twitch which we talk about guess what computer hardware So check both of those out folks. Uh, and thank you for supporting us directly There's lots of different ways to do it. Uh, if you just listen to the free public feed, you're already doing it But if you would like to support us directly cut out the middleman head to daily tech news show dot com slash Support and if you like this kind of round table format Join on in the fun or up your pledge and get some of our cool perks like good day internet Exclusive columns and more at patreon.com slash dts. If we can make it to our next milestone We would like to do more of these round tables a month So join in on the fun patreon.com slash dts If you have feedback for us questions comments anything Please let us know feedback a daily tech news show dot com is the way to do that We're also live monday through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 2030 utc if you can join us live great We would love to have you find out more at daily tech news show dot com slash live back on monday with andrew zarian As our guests talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network get more at frog pants dot com Oh, that was a great show you guys, thank you so much. Oh you guys are the best Absolutely, it was fun. I mean talk about getting good tips So many tips so many tips try tips so many tips frosted tips I need more frosted tips Bring them back. It's a part of this complete breakfast Is that what they used to see about frosted miniweeds? No, seriously that sugary cereal is part of your complete breakfast Everything is part of you and you know the picture was like bacon It's just a part No, you're right. The picture was just breakfast. They're like if you add our cereal, it's still breakfast Part of this complete breakfast which is eggs toast sausage protein calcium. No, we don't have that But we're here I'm very excited. I found the place on 138 in antelope valley that has the best breakfast burrito in california Well, that's a bold claim This is this is playing into uh our shared interest here on gdi w e e v i l l market it is in the middle of nowhere like In between 99 and 5, uh, well antelope valley. I don't even like I can't even think of any south of bakersfield It's north and east, isn't it? Well, you know, it's really the other side of taihan ranch from uh from i5 next weekend. I'm going to be driving from la to san francisco Maybe I would I have driven down to a bunch of events and stuff in in la because Getting around it's so expensive to get around at la and it takes so long to kind of get through um, you know, I was basically like Yeah, it's a 12 hour drive Or it's like 12 hours of driving and I have my car there or it's like six hours of dealing with the airport at either end Yeah, and I don't have a car and it was After the home theater expo, right? Yeah, like the home thing I drove through for cds down for uh, uh, can jam a bunch of Oh, right. Yeah, it was it was I had flown down there and I'm like, yay. I'm flying and I'm like, okay So I spent like three and a half hours You know getting from oakland, you know in through oakland and security and out security at the other end And then it took me like another hour and a half and like I think it was like 70 dollars to get to downtown la Where the event was I'm like, no, I'm just driving next time like They are you take the megabus If you if you get in early it's super cheap. You just need to be on a bus for six The the lax fly away Uh, it runs like every 10 minutes to downtown to grand central station downtown and is like nine bucks That includes wi-fi on the bus I didn't realize was an option until I moved up where I moved now because they have one that comes up here too Um, but they're putting in a train line. The green line is gonna go to lax And where does it stop like where's the it goes to downtown so it goes No, I know but on the other side. Oh, you mean on the lax side Is lax the final downtown to lax? Yeah Oh, yeah, it's gonna be like bart where you'll you'll take a little a little Shuttle train to the stop and then you get on the train. Yeah All right, I'm logging off because I gotta go pick up my daughter. All right, let me do the same again, man. All right Thank you Happy friday. All right. Happy weekend to you all. Bye. Bye you as well. Take care. Bye everyone. See you. Bye You're on Yeah, bit me Stupid bucks. I don't know what I'm thinking about that breakfast burrito. It might be worth an extra hour of driving I mean, listen If it's good enough, I will do you take five or would you take to get this or do you take five? Uh, I usually check the trip. I like uh, I kind of like 99 99 it's great, but man to get there Like it's easy for my parents place because they live next to the 99, but well at 99 I mean, it's not that you know, it's like another 10 minutes driving work because I'm right by five like 238 and 580 in the east bay The uh, man, there's a really great breakfast place in baker's field that actually If you drive 99 is totally worth it. There's a couple great mexican places in baker's field, sarah Oh, well, I mean if you if you think of them, uh before next friday Let me know. Will patrick think of them Video folks, you'll never know because we're right up the video now Uh, but audio folks stick around maybe There's nowhere to come