 Welcome to the 11th meeting of the Culture, Tourism, Europe and External Relations Committee in 2017. I would like to remind everyone to turn mobile phones to silent and any members using electronic devices to access committee papers should ensure that they are switched to silent also. We have received apologies today from Richard Lochhead MSP and Tavish Scott MSP. Today the committee will be holding a round table discussion with young i weithio i dduwi'r rhiystau neu ddodol, i gydigio'r unedig iawn i gyntafol i unedig i siart yn eu direin. Dyna gael i gydigio angen o'r mynedigiaeth i chi ddechrau'r ffordd, ac yn ymddi'r shifaig yma, sy'n dod o'r merthyn Rhaglen. Felly, mae'n gydigio yma yn gwybod eich byw ymddewch chi'n gwheilu'r rhiystau been figured out before tonight. Before the meetings, participants were separated into four groups, each of which was allocated a specific topic. They include the economy, education, the environment and human rights. Two representatives in each group have very kindly agreed to speak on behalf of their group in this evidence session this afternoon, so it is my pleasure to welcome to the meeting Kirsty Smith from East movingsure Ymgynghori zebra, Maddie Chambers, East Renfrewshere Youth Forum, that group has been focused on the economy. Martijn Bezenius of the EU Society at Edinburgh University, and Maximilian Crichtts of the EU Society at Edinburgh University, and their group has focused on education issues. We also have Heather Cameron of the Scottish Youth Parliament and Lauren O'Keefe from the French concludede, and, Finally, David Chupw hackw, of Voice of My Own, and Lara Carmarchy of the East L VPN Youth Council, whose group has been looking at human rights. Thank you all very much for agreeing to participate on behalf of your groups. Before we consider the specific areas that you have been discussing in more detail, I'd like to begin by asking all the groups to perhaps share with the committee how they think that negotiations have progressed since the EU referendum result? Perhaps the economy group would like to begin. I think that surrounding the negotiations and indirect relation to the referendum itself, we see that a lot of the individuals in our nation were extremely uninformed or perhaps even misinformed due to the bias media, and we see that another problem is the access to the information, which is also another problem that we didn't feel as dealt with in relation to the negotiations. Our committee or group felt that there was not enough publication for the public to make a sound and informed decision on what they were supposed to vote in the referendum. On top of that, we also see that politicians and Governments are not informed enough to make a sound decision on what they are proposing and what they are supposed to do. We feel that the level of publication regarding negotiations on Brexit has not been to the extent that we would have hoped it to be so that people could be informed on what they were supposed to do. Thank you. Can we move to the education group now? So our group believes that students are already under a lot of pressure because of academic work, because they have to find a job later. Some of the students suffer from those pressures and the uncertainties surrounding Brexit and the uncertainties in the negotiations so far or in the pre-negotiations, they have only added to that and they increased the pressure on students because there are uncertainties about funding, about the Erasmus programme, about opportunities in the labour market, etc. So adding to that, I think it is really important to give young people a voice in the Brexit negotiations or in talks about Brexit because it's mainly their future that is at stake, as the young people will be most affected by Brexit. I think that the main concern that we've had with the negotiations since the referendum has been just the level of insecurity and uncertainty surrounding our futures and all the concerns that we have surrounding employment opportunities, education, uni, studying abroad and travelling, while we need to get visas for that. Those might not even be real concerns but we've just got nobody's clarified for us what's going to happen. Another issue that we have had that was raised was underrepresentation from a wide range of people when people are going to speak to the European Union about how we Brexit, essentially. A lot of the people who have been going to speak to the EU have been older, white, male, heterosexual and enable-bodied and there is a wide variety of people in this country who have not had a full representation from negotiations. Thank you, David. Lauren and Heather. So we're just concerned again about how young people will be represented in the negotiations considering over three quarters of young people voted to remain in the EU and also the consistent talk about Brexit being a hard Brexit. It was almost a 50-50 split vote, so why is it not a soft Brexit and who's representing the remainers as well? Thank you. Heather. There was concern about what Brexit actually means, which I think we're all asking ourselves, but especially when many young people couldn't actually vote for the terms of Brexit to be decided only by politicians and not in a democratic way, was frustrating for many of the young people in our group. Also, the young people expressed concerns about Theresa May's wanting unity in Westminster when actually we need opposition to discuss better what Brexit actually means and that for the young people who couldn't vote in the referendum, again, they can't necessarily vote in the upcoming election, so there is a lack of engagement with young people there. Thank you, Heather. That's all very useful. Thank you all for those opening comments. We are rather tight for time because we need to finish the session before Parliament's plenary session opens it, too. I'm going to move straight on to ask you to address us about your particular topic areas, starting with the economy committee. First of all, I'm going to talk about the effect of organisations regarding the economy. Our group basically felt that, regarding trade, organisations are going to start pulling out of the UK, which obviously has a knock-on effect on the UK's worth and the UK's making money and thriving as an economy. We felt that, going for a hard Brexit, which another group touched upon, we felt that, because of the 50-50 split, we would not want to go with that. That, regarding the economy, not being part of the single market and trade deals with movement of people, movement of products and goods was not the right course of action to take. We also saw that, regarding people from EU citizens who are living in the UK currently, a lot of them—we have a real-life example—have had ideas of wanting to start up organisations in the UK and feel a great amount of uncertainty, because there has been, as we have previously said, a lack of publication in the media for them to make informed decisions based on that. Now, partner, we will touch up on some more issues. Getting back to the idea of the individual, we see a security blanket structure relating to freedom of movement within the UK and EU membership. We do not see that in other countries, and that is why we see the desire to work or travel within the EU, which we do not get with places such as America, due to the lack of safety in relation to visas and other issues. We see that that assurance is vital to the UK principles, and we feel that if we take away the security blanket, we would lose business prospects, as those individuals would feel that they would be happier and safer to return to their home country to start business prospects and to study, which is really detracting from the UK and its economy as we lose those business prospects of those individuals who have new ideas and who can bring new things and new skills to our nation as a whole. We see that that is extremely detrimental to our economy in relation to the freedom of movement. On top of that, we discussed the creative industry and the funding that goes into this from the EU. We also felt that that would have a knock-on effect on organisations and further careers for not only UK citizens but EU citizens studying in the UK, because the creative industry—a lot of it—is highly funded by the EU. Without that funding, we see that as a disastrous thing that could possibly mean less creativity within careers and choices and opportunities for young people. I am now going to open up to members who may have some questions for you specifically. I was interested in the point about people from EU countries who had plans or were thinking about setting up organisations in the UK. Am I right in taking that to be businesses-type organisations? What is the impact on them? I think that you said that it means that people have to think twice because they do not have the information that they need. Is there a particular area where the information could be made available earlier, where it really matters, to allow people to make those decisions? Yes, definitely with trade, because organisations and businesses work for profit. If they have no idea what the trading scheme is going to be like with countries in the EU, because we are not in the single market because of a hard Brexit, then lots of them are not going to take that risk in not having a high enough profit to thrive as an organisation. So it is really around the trade stuff. Do citizens' rights come into this as well? In other words, the right of people to do these things? I definitely think that human rights come into the economy a lot, as the economy affects the individual. We definitely see that there is a mutualistic relationship, because both the country and the individuals who are native to the UK or EU nationals have assets that they both provide for one another. We provide the individuals with high-quality education, safety and security, and they provide us with new skills and assets, so we think that that is very beneficial. Is there an impression that Scotland and the UK are a welcoming business culture, but, with Brexit, that is going to change? Currently, is there an impression that Scotland and the UK is a welcoming business culture and that it is open for opportunities for people who are non-UK nationals to set up, but, with Brexit, that is going to be challenged? Yes, that is what we are saying that it is definitely going to be challenged because of that security blanket that we previously spoke about, which is being removed. A lot of young people who come to universities here, say from America, who have to have a visa, can often feel kind of under-threatened to put pressure on themselves mentally as well, to work hard in their education so that they do not get knocked back. We feel that this is going to have a knock-on effect on mental states of EU citizens as well, who are coming over to learn and get educated because that is another added pressure on to young people, which is simply not needed. I will move on to the next group. Who would like to go next? Perhaps the group who is looking at the education issues. First and foremost, our group has recognised the importance of education and especially the importance of higher education. Nowadays, you are more or less need a degree if you want to succeed or at least to have an edge on a very competitive job market. But this importance puts a lot of pressure on the students and on the health of the students, also on the mental health, and this pressure is even higher because of the uncertainties of Brexit. So we in our group, we have more or less all benefited from the advantages of EU membership, both Scottish students who benefit from the Erasmus programme, from EU funds, from having a diversity in the classrooms, but also on the other hand international students, just as ourselves, us too, who got to study in Scotland. But regarding the pressure that exists now on young people, we have discussed several concerns. I would just outline some of the concerns. One of the main concerns was the Erasmus programme, which benefits many students at the moment. There is a cultural exchange going on, language skills, social skills that people can learn through an Erasmus programme. For example, Scottish students going abroad, learning another language and also European students coming here and experiencing Scottish culture. We fear that if the Erasmus programme is stopped for UK nationals, this cultural exchange will be lost. Also for Scottish students, for example, the Erasmus programme represents an opportunity for them to go abroad, as some couldn't even afford going abroad, as the Erasmus fund exists, for example, where you get around 400 euros a month to go study abroad. So the scrapping of the Erasmus programme is a major concern of people in our group and students in general, I think. Then there's the other issue of funding that comes from the EU, mainly to research in our universities. As we know, there are many world-class Scottish universities. Already now, apparently, there are less people who are willing to come and do research at UK universities due to the uncertainty. Also, the research funding might get stopped, which is especially concerned for smaller universities who might have less funding, and so there's a lot of research that might not be able to be carried out. Then there's also other EU funding that goes to regions in the Highlands or the islands, for example, such as education programmes such as one that's called Outward Bound and education programmes in the Highlands. Also such things might... There's a question about if this funding will be replaced by a UK-wide funding or Scottish funding, but until then, there's a question about how such programmes will be able to survive after Brexit. Then there's also the question of EU students coming into Scottish universities about whether they will have to pay tuition fees after Brexit or also about whether, in the future, their degrees will still be recognised outside of the UK. As for now, we have the Bologna process where all EU degrees have the same standing, but nobody knows how this is going to develop in the future. Lastly, there's also the concern of EU students studying in Scotland or the UK at the moment about whether they are allowed to stay after Brexit and whether they will need a visa in the future or whether they can get a job here. So now we will get some recommendations. So, just very briefly, we want to give some recommendations to the committee that we deem important in our group or what we wish to, which is to secure the Erasmus programme, to secure funding for research but as well as for student support. We hope that young people will be given more voice in the negotiations for example through consultations with think tanks such as the Scottish Youth Parliament, but we also appreciate this event as a very important step in engaging young people in the Brexit debate. We also want to commit to continuing free higher education for EU nationals, which attracts many of them to Scotland and also attracts, well, which also boosts the economy because it brings a lot of money. Finally, what we deem very important is to improve mental health services for students who suffer from the pressures of higher education, which has now increased due to Brexit. Okay, thank you very much and I'd like to start the questions to your group myself. I wonder if you could give us any indication of you talked about the beneficial effects of EU students studying at Scottish universities on the Scottish economy. In your experience, in your group's experience, are there many examples of EU students staying in Scotland after they graduate to foreign businesses and perhaps even start families and make a life for themselves? One of the committee has taken evidence that one of the big challenges for Scotland is demographic and that we need more young people living and working here, so has the free tuition for EU students at Scottish universities helped that process? Speaking from personal experience and from the friends that I have and who study in Scotland, international students, many of them stay in the UK, especially London, which I think is some kind of sponge which takes on all the students and a lot of students from Scotland and international students who come to Scotland, but also a lot who stay in Scotland and who stay, well, mostly in the big cities, Edinburgh, Glasgow, maybe in Aberdeen. So the free higher education for you nationals in Scotland has a very attractive factor because it is a high-class education that you would not get otherwise at low cost or no cost. I just wanted to add to that being an EU student myself when I came to the UK to study at first, I thought, oh, maybe I'm going to stay after and get a job and make a life here. But now, knowing the uncertainty of Brexit, and I also know that a lot of my friends coming from the EU are now saying, no, we're going back because it's just too uncertain what's going to happen in a couple of years. You don't want to get settled, and then in a few years you have to leave. Thank you very much. Do you want to, Ross Greer? You touched on it a little bit in your opening remarks about us potentially not being able to attract as many students from the rest of the EU into our universities in the first place. So not just the insecurity of those who are currently here, but of being able to persuade anyone else to come and study. I've seen that already spoken to an Austrian high school group who were visiting, two of whom were planning on applying and were seriously reconsidering it because of Brexit. You mentioned some policy changes or policy clarification that we could make, like clarity over funding. What can we do in terms of the overall message to young people elsewhere in Europe to persuade them that this is still a welcoming country, that this is still a place that they would be more than welcome to come and to live and study and contribute? How can we get that message out there? From the top of my head, I cannot think of a specific policy that could be, like maybe Martin, if you want to think about it in the next 30 seconds. But I think that a big effort has to be made because of what you hear on the continent, on the mainland, and me coming from the continent, I know that myself, what you hear mostly is English media talking about Brexit and you hear about the Conservative government and Theresa May and the snap election, et cetera, et cetera. What you don't really get, and also students who are interested in studying in the UK potentially, is the attraction of Scotland. Again, I can't think now specifically of a policy action that could be taken, but an increased effort should be made. Or maybe there could be actually something, because again, I think England was very vocal now in promoting England and Britain. I think Prince Charles and Camilla just came to Europe on a trip, but I didn't know about any Scots who come to Europe. Or maybe Nicola Sturgeon, who is travelling to different governments and heads of states and talks about Scotland. So I think that could be a first step to say the first minister should go and talk to the different heads of states in Europe. I just want to add to that. I think the first step would be that they have to be, their insecurities have to be stopped, so there needs to be a guarantee to some extent that they won't need to pay tuition fees and that they won't need a visa at some point, so that the point of the entry into education here for the length of their studies, they will be able to stay and no increase in tuition fees. Nothing then also just maybe Scotland could start a campaign or so to say we are European friendly, we love European students, something like that maybe. Thank you very much Lewis MacDonald. Yeah, just a couple of things on those issues about reassurance. I think one reassurance that's important to mention, I think Martine mentioned the Bologna process whereby qualifications are recognised between different European countries, that's independent of the European Union and extends to many European countries out with European Union. So I think it's important to say that that's not in any direct sense at risk unless somebody somewhere was to take a strange and bizarre decision unconnected with leaving the EU. So I think that's one assurance. The other question, though, I saw this morning that the EU's negotiating guidelines for the Brexit negotiation with the UK had been amended to say that the EU is looking for an automatic right for citizens who have lived here for five years to remain in the UK. Would that outcome as part of the Brexit negotiations be reassuring to those who are here at the moment and also to those who might come in future as students? I think definitely if there was a guarantee that people who have lived here for five years that they can stay here that would be a great reassurance already. More ideally even that would be after three or four years because as you know university degrees in Scotland they're four years, in England they're three years so there's still a degree of uncertainty because if you come to Scotland or to Edinburgh and study for four years you don't know well what's going to happen in that year that's missing for me to have a right to stay and there could be many obscure policies that can prevent you to get work or whatever maybe. So I think it's a good step in the right direction but maybe a shorter time period would be even better. Thank you. Your points regarding the Erasmus scheme and encouraging students to take part I think are well made. I studied in France, Germany and in Sweden and I had the time of my life as well as working very hard I hasten to add but certainly when I did my masters I qualified for, because back to your point regarding funding, I secured funding through the European social fund and I think that is a fund that certainly in Scotland is more considered to be helping local areas but here's a fund that actually had that benefit of helping individuals as well as local areas so I think that the point regarding funding is also well made. You've raised a number of other areas which I'm not going to touch upon because colleagues have already done so but I think your point also regarding research and the challenge facing Scottish universities when we do come out in terms of encouraging researchers to come here but also the research funding from Europe and the question as to where that funding will come from is absolutely valid. On that point, looking at it from your perspective and your contemporaries' perspective as young people who are choosing an institute to study across Europe, would you say that there's a great deal of competition between higher education institutions across Europe and Brexit might put our higher education institutions at a disadvantage given the competitiveness in terms of attracting students in the package that students are offered? That's definitely possible. For now the UK just attracts with very high class and world leading research and world leading research institutions such as the universities in Scotland and from the fact that you can just go there study and then go back you don't need a visa it's not a hassle. Without that I think it would be different because then I might say well I could also go maybe to the Netherlands which also offer English speaking degrees so I don't have to speak Dutch for that I can just go there no hassle and study that and get a good degree. I don't think that it's going to be a very dramatic disaster that no one will come to the UK anymore but many people will think twice about it and it might be very bright minds that I'll go somewhere else. Thank you very much. We'll now move on to David and Lara for your presentation on human rights. Thank you very much. One of the first concerns that we have concerning human rights is who the government is talking to for post-Brexit trade deals. In particular Saudi Arabia and China we have concerns over their human rights records and I know that we're never going to find a utopian country we're never going to find a place that is going to be 100% wonderful in every single way but I personally do have concerns over and our group had concerns over you know talking to countries who execute people for being gay and you know countries who block off internet access to their people so that they cannot properly educate themselves on what is happening in the world so that was our first concern over human rights. Also the EU was in charge of the charter of fundamental human rights which ensured things such as anti-discrimination measures and gender equality measures were kept up across the EU and so far nothing's been announced that will replace that or assure that this will still continue across the UK in a post-Brexit of Britain. Another thing that has not been fully officially confirmed is the security of rights of EU migrants and I know that Mr McDonnell the Labour Party denounced this morning something about securing EU migrants rights but currently the government do not have any sort of plan over this and it's very concerning that people's livelihoods are being played around with you know as bargaining chips and also Gibraltar is something as you know former prime minister is going on to Sunday politics shows and saying we want to go to war with Spain that's also concerning and it's almost as though the government do not understand that people these people are real and that they exist and they have lives and that's another concern that we've had. To follow on from David's point there you said about the five-year plan that the Labour side of people have been living for five years would be guaranteed but since June that's not been the case that's not existing now EU citizens in the UK have had no certainty that they would be allowed to stay here the government have simply been using their lives as bargaining chips and to speak from personal experience I come from a family of Spanish migrants I've got Spanish citizenship I only recently just got a British passport two weeks ago and my mum's now having to go at permanent residency and change her citizenship simply out of complete uncertainty about our futures it's not. Moving on to tourism and human rights there's a very long list of facts that I have in 2015 36.1 million overseas tourists came into the UK and contributed £22.1 billion to the economy but in July last year the home office reported a 41% increase in religion and race based hate crimes in England and Wales compared to July 2015 the two weeks and the day of the EU referendum 31 police forces reported almost 1,550 race and religious based hate crimes the two weeks after that spiked up to 2,241 after the EU referendum Polish communities received leaflets being called vermin an Iranian Kurdish asylum seeker was attacked in London we also cannot forget the Westminster attack and the foreign nationals that passed away during that attack because of homegrown terrorism and I personally have had numerous experiences of of race based hate crimes which has increased ever since the 23rd of June however I do want to make the point that what I am not trying to say is that every single person who voted for brexit has some sort of race based intolerance to myself or to anyone who you know is from a different country we I was speaking to a person over lunch who was an SNP voter and voted to leave the European Union as well and I think that it is also it would be good if we had more representation from people who voted for brexit who are more liberally minded and more open to you know and who are not as intolerant as perhaps other people who voted for the same the same idea we also discussed that all these acts of racism come from a place of not quite ignorance but like lack of knowledge of other cultures and other religions so we think that there should be more in place to educate people of other ways of life especially to ensure acceptance in society especially in a post-brexit maybe slightly more isolated UK where people won't have maybe not won't have the right to freedom of travel to explore these cultures themselves because of monetary problems we had a young lady in our group whose sister was abused for wearing the hijab and you know it's things like freedom of expression freedom of religious expression things like you know so-called integration policy that was announced by the UK independence party things like that fill people with fear and you know from a personal point of view that stuff like that where expression of religion could be harmed is very worrying very worrying indeed and yeah that was almost all that we had I think we need to just remember that being different is definitely something that should be celebrated and should bring people together especially in these uncertain political times thank you very much for that and David you said that you had to personal experience so you don't have to answer this if you don't feel comfortable with it but your personal experience of racial comments do you think that that has increased since Brexit and can you absolutely relate them to Brexit? I would say that they have increased since Brexit would I equate that to Brexit? I think I would answer yes to that and there is another point that we I think we missed out was people in the public eye making comments that do not have the a few years ago if they had made those comments would have been you know shut down and would have been stopped but now are not as not as criticised and not as chappered if you know what I mean and do you are you thinking particularly about politicians are you thinking about the media and both both Carmena is that also your family's experience? Yeah I mean definitely I think since brexit and since everything that's going on in the American elections there's been a lot more racist attitudes that have been stirred up and brought into the public eye that would have previously been shut down and this has caused an increase in people being less accepting of others that's affected people negatively definitely. I'm bringing in Lewis MacDonald. Yeah thanks very much just I guess there's two different aspects of human rights that you've both highlighted one as they affect European Union citizens here in this country but also as they affect all of us living in this country everyone living in this country. The first of those can be addressed in the brexit negotiation hopefully but the second one is obviously a bigger picture is there something and David you mentioned the election campaign that's underway at the moment is there something that we should be doing or arguing for now in relation to human rights within the UK and within Scotland that we need to do more because of brexit is there a change we need to make in our domestic arrangements in order to ensure that everyone who lives here has got the fundamental human rights that you've both talked about? I think informing citizens is the most important part of that. I think a lot of people when they were looking at the issues and I think that the economy group spoke about this as well is that I don't think that there was enough publication on what the European Union does and I know Mr Gray you were part of the Green Party's Europe Spokesperson I believe and I think that it's about integrating education into manifestos, into public broadcasts things like that in order to and campaigns both you know neutral and political to make sure that people understand what things like the European Court of Human Rights is you know it's something as simple as handing a leaf out and I know that that costs money and I know that it costs energy and manpower and time but simple things like that could solve issues in the long run. It touches on exactly what you've just said David as well as being my party's Europe Spokesperson I'm also an education spokesperson so when people bring both those issues together I'm usually quite pleased. I think that you are absolutely right about the need for more education about the whole range of issues mean that you talked about more education about the variety and diversity of different cultures and faiths and traditions et cetera to foster that sense of multiculturalism that's very important I mean the one thing that I would say is that we shouldn't fetishise the right of freedom of movement I'm totally uncompromising on it I believe we absolutely should have it but simply even by having it only a very small number of young people in the UK will actually take advantage of it and will go and study somewhere else in Europe so it's not that just by having that right every young person in the UK knows exactly what every other culture in Europe is like so there's much more we need to do that aside and but it also picks up on some of the points that have been addressed before about the lack of information in the campaign about if we'd improved education not just about the society that we live in the variety of it but also that civic education about what the institutions are exactly what you were just saying about what the ECHR is or the European Court of Justice and what the European Union is as a whole and I know MEPs who say I've been here since 1990 whatever and even I don't quite know how everything works but that base level of education does need to be increased and one other question that I had for you was when you mentioned the trade deals really important point to make and there are obviously issues with that at the moment we sell arms to Saudi Arabia which many people including myself find unacceptable if we're going to be making a lot of trade deals in the next couple of years how do you think the negotiations should proceed how should we involve wider UK society in that so that it's not just Governments going away making deals that we believe compromise our values how should we involve people more in that process can I just I think it people need to be more informed first of all because like you were saying the issue on the news when Theresa May was in Saudi Arabia was about Cadbury Easter egg hunts like it all just gets very screened out there's a big filter on what we actually find out from main news channels and I think that needs to change first of all which would affect it would at least educate people into what's going on and then they can take a stand from there but if people aren't fully educated first of all then how can they develop opinions to find out actually I don't like what's going on I don't agree that we should be selling arms to Saudi Arabia if they don't know what's going on in the first place it's the the issue of being fully educated and particularly around the issues of EU and its and its past I can agree certainly with that I mean as someone who studied European business European business management I it was a it was a challenging area to actually to try to learn certainly however in terms of our school system that we have if we're to do more regarding the the teaching and the promotion of of how the European institutions actually operated and how they work then something we'd have to give because of of course at the time that the students have actually got in school so there is always a challenge it's very easy certainly for politicians to say well we need to have more education about x yr z in schooling but the challenge is the the time that students are in school. I would like to bring up that from personal experience I think one of the and I know that I'm going to be end up criticised for this one of the problems I have is the fetishisation of legacy 2012 and legacy 2014 physical education is incredibly important to our nation and I think that it's it's you know we need to make sure that our country is healthy and fit but I also do find that there is a tendency because of 2012 and 2014 and the amazing work that was done here in Scotland and down in London that they there is favouritism towards sports over the arts and over you know political education and those are you know two things I am very big on I plan to go into into the media when I leave school and I love music and art however and I do I do find joy out of out of physical education as well but I think that we need to have a you know a proper sit-down discussion about and it's you know I could go on for hours about this but making sure that there is an equal layout for different types of education to make sure that our young people are properly educated in various ways. I hope that someone from the education committee is listening to those particular comments, they can have their youth engagement event. I'd like to now invite Heather and Lauren to make their presentation on the environment issues that they've been discussing in their group. Thank you yes so our group was discussing concerns on the environment basically we feel that the environment is never prioritised in any mandate at the moment it's always at the back of the list and we're worried that some of the environmental protection laws that have been created by the EU might be lost once we leave so we're wondering if they will be maintained. There's also a lot of lessons we can take from Europe in places like Holland and Scandinavia they do a lot of initiatives like you get money for disposing bottles and things like that and there's so many more things that could be done in this country like that that we can take from Europe. We're also concerned that there was a recent configuration in Westminster concerning the Environment Committee the funds were reduced so really it's one of the biggest problems of our time and as young people this is going to be our future maybe the people who the older people who voted won't see it happen but we will so environment's really important for us. Furthermore in terms of renewable energy we can also take lessons from places like Denmark who have targets to go carbon neutral by 2050 we do have a target to reduce carbon emissions by something like 40 per cent by 2030 but there could be a lot more that could be done such as encouraging less consumption of meat and also the sustainable fishing and farming issues as well we're wondering will will they continue I know that they benefit the economy in some way especially north of Scotland all of the fishing up there but is that going to damage the environment if we don't have these regulations anymore and also a point was raised by someone in the group about nuclear energy Scotland are not not going to go forward with any more nuclear programmes when in fact it's a sustainable use of energy so and as well as that we get about two thirds of energy from Europe so how are they going to replace that replace it with renewables or just continue with fracking and things like that so leading on from the sustainable energy how also will we continue to research into environmental improvement when the UK has cut funding for this and how will we continue to make sure that our scientific research and scientific teaching is of a high standard if we're not attracting in the high quality teachers also our group was very concerned about Scottish transport many European countries have very high levels of public transport and really promote sustainable transport methods such as cycling and one of the group members raised that Holland have great cycle lanes in their cities for many young people in rural areas of Scotland getting from one place to another can be only done by driving and driving is much less sustainable than using public transport so our group was really keen for our public transport to be improved and for it to be of a sustainable quality also one member of our group raised concern about food safety if we did leave the EU because he has a very severe allergy and EU law states that restaurants must tell him if food has his allergen in it and if a problem arises then they will be liable for the accident so if this law and similar laws aren't maintained then he really could and other people like him could have severe health implications our group was also concerned about the international cooperation of Scotland and the UK about the environment because if we need to cooperate with other countries for any solution to be sustainable and long term so we really wanted to make sure that Scotland stays committed to goals such as the sustainable development goals and that we by leaving the EU that we're not diminishing the climate targets and that in fact we could take this as an opportunity to increase our climate targets and prioritise the environment thank you thank you i mean you you're obviously as perhaps not surprisingly very concerned about the environment as many young people are do you think Brexit will make it more or less likely that we can address the concerns that you have about environmental protection so our group initially i think we were concerned that leaving the EU would have a detrimental effect because so many of the environmental laws that we have in the UK are from the EU but i think we can have a more positive look and see this as an opportunity to improve so to build upon the EU standards and in fact have higher standards when we leave i think it can also be an opportunity to like look good to other countries as well if we start creating laws that are better for the environment as well as even things like animal welfare battery hens don't exist anymore because of EU laws so will we maintain and improve them we could make a make a difference i think it can see as an opportunity so just to pick up on a couple of the things that you've mentioned because i think they are i think they are important um and i think there's there's there's a little bit of depth to some of it as well so for example you talked about the importance of public transport and renewable energy now i represent the north east of scotland i'm based in abardin and in that city the european union has helped to fund the offshore wind development and deployment center which will be built in abardin bay in the next 18 months despite the the opposition of a certain donald john trump and we also have we lead europe on hydrogen buses we have the largest fleet of hydrogen powered buses in europe these are things that have been supported by european funding and european legislation but they've also been driven forward locally within the city and within scotland in the uk so so i guess my point is while while you're right to say that there is a common european standard which is supportive of good effective environmental regulation there's also opportunities to go beyond that european standard and i think what you were saying in response to the convener's question was that we should take these opportunities and that there are things we can do even better if we if we set our minds to it if we make that policy decision is that does that represent what your group felt about the the animal welfare you mentioned the welfare of pigs in captivity is higher in britain than it is anywhere else in europe because we've gone beyond european regulation so is that is that something that you see as a potential area of growth no and uh we would yeah just like to see it as a not a way to get out of these um these good laws for environment and animals and things um so yeah that's that's uh it's good to know thank you thank you i thought there was a huge amount of great stuff in there um didn't cheer me up at all because the risks are immense as as you observed the risk to our environment as it stands and to our ability to tackle climate change so you raise a huge number of really important issues in the one point i would disagree with is about nuclear power it's um it is risky but it's also expensive and it's a diversion of money that absolutely needs to be going to renewables so that we can make that transition happen but on that point i'm wondering what you think would it be more effective for us if we are going to have to make this case yet again to people in the UK about the importance in the environment the importance of tackling climate change would it be effective if we start talking about it in terms of the jobs that we'll create in renewables if we go through a transition how it's a matter of social justice because we'll be able to end fuel poverty with a more effective renewable energy infrastructure um not just social justice at home but globally as well the idea of climate justice that people are already suffering elsewhere in the world because of this if we start talking about the environment in terms of other debates economic debates social justice etc do you think that'll make it easier for us to really galvanise people around the need for the UK not to start warring standards and giving up commitments but to raise them and to make new commitments i think that's a really good point um and that will help the environment to seem more of a pertinent and pressing issue um but also i think people are beginning to become involved and interesting the environment just for its sake and i think we can see that in the rise of the number of green msps elected um and also from that businesses are pushed to become more sustainable because you know it gives them a good um public outlook so um but no i think that is a good method to go around it i know that we did have other questions but unfortunately it's five to two and we have to be wrapping up before parliament opens at two o'clock so i would like to thank all the young people who participated in our event today um the young people who have given evidence to us today um you speak to any witnesses that come before parliamentary committees and whatever age they are they tell you it can be a daunting experience i hope it hasn't been a daunting experience for you it certainly didn't sound like it because you were all extremely articulate and we really benefited from hearing what you had to say and i'd like to thank the other young people who didn't speak on the record today but i know that you had an absolutely vital role in contributing to the evidence through the workshops that informed your groups so thank you all very much for coming along today i think it's a great example of how the Scottish Parliament can reach out to groups in society that we don't hear enough of and given some of the issues around Brexit and young people i think it was very important that young people got their say today in the Scottish Parliament so thank you very much to everybody who was involved in making it happen and i now close this session of the committee thank you very much