 Welcome to Cooper Union. What's happening with human rights around the world on Think Tech Live, broadcasting from our downtown studio on Honolulu, Hawaii and Moana, Nuiakea. I'm your host, Joshua Cooper. The title of today's episode is United Nations Stockholm Plus 50, Only One Earth, the Earth Summit Anniversary Demands Action. And today we'll be looking at the International Court of Justice climate action campaign going forward. And coincidentally, it's on the 35th anniversary of adoption of New Zealand's nuclear weapon free law. It's exciting as we talk about the UN Stockholm Plus 50 that convened all states and civil society, protect our planet. Because it's been 50 years since that historic 1972 UN conference on the human environment, which made the environment for the first time a pressing global issue in world affairs. I'd like to introduce our guests and begin with Emily. Emily, thank you so much for joining us and share your first impressions about Stockholm Plus 50 and the importance of the work you do daily. Thank you very much for inviting me. Hello from Normandy, from France. We just commemorated the D-Day yesterday. And Normandy Chair for Peace has been created in order to propose and promote a message of peace with the future and with future generations and peace with the Earth. So concerning Stockholm Plus 50, we just come back from this event who was held in Oslo, as you know. And it was a commemoration of a very important summit, the very first summit, which put into the center of international politics the question of the protection of the Earth. In 1972, it was the very first time that we saw the picture of the whole planet. And the very first time also that all nations NGOs also recognize and put the link between the concept of human rights and the environment. Since then, so this conference was a commemoration, we created an institution in order to protect the environment but we have entered into a new era, which I call the era of transgenerational democracy now. The time has come to promote a transgenerational approach of human rights and duties in order to protect future generations. And at the end, all the statements of state during the official plenary session was supporting our responsibility towards future generations. And many states also emphasize on the fact that we do have all the scientific informations now and we have also to avoid to commit crimes against future generations. We have to anticipate to promote environmental law and to protect future generations. Thank you so much, Alan. Could you give some of your first impressions of Stockholm plus 50? I appreciate it talking with you and getting first-hand accounts when you're there on the boat at the water level. What was going on at Stockholm and how did you spend your days there? Well, thank you, Joshua. And yes, it is, as you mentioned today is the anniversary also when we abolished nuclear weapons in New Zealand 35 years ago. And that was then the inspiration for us to take the issue of the illegality of nuclear weapons to the International Court of Justice, which was successful. We got a decision from the International Court of Justice that the legality of the threat or use of nuclear weapons, that nuclear weapons are illegal and there was an obligation to eliminate them. And that's been the inspiration now for this new issue and this new campaign to take the issue of climate change to the International Court of Justice. So here we have a connection to a nuclear disarmament and protecting the planet from the climate. And to me, that was actually symbolic throughout the whole of the Stockholm Plus 50. Here we actually had peace and security organizations coming together with environmental organizations, coming together with human rights organizations and seeing that all these issues are connected, peace, the planet, disarmament, climate issues. And this was a great coming together, which was important. Just before the Stockholm Plus 50, a SIPPRI, the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, released their report on peace for the environment, demonstrating the connections between environmental crises, conflict. And then also just prior to that, there was the Oul of Palmer Center, released their report, Common Security, demonstrating how common security, that is resolving our conflicts, not threatening each other with weapons and with war, is the only way we're going to resolve these issues. These are all coming together. Now, we don't yet have enough action from the governments. And so what we did see is that the final statement from Stockholm Plus 50 was good on principles, but wasn't good on the specifics, whereas some of the civil society organizations came from much stronger. I was part of the White Livelihood Laureates Network, and we came with quite strong statement, saying it's time to leave fossil fuels in the ground, end the subsidies for fossil fuels, shift military budgets away from $2 trillion for the military every year, shift it into climate protection, and enhance the rights of nature, earth trustee ship and the rights of future generations as binding on and all legal systems. So there is a lot of inspiration coming out. There's a lot of cooperation, but there's sort of a long way to go. We have some really serious crises, the Ukraine war, the climate crisis, the oceans crisis. We need to take action along the lines of what civil society was putting forward at Stockholm Plus 50. Thank you. Thank you, Alan, so much. And of course, tomorrow is World Oceans Day, and you really summarize what a lot of people are saying. The Secretary General said we must place the true value on the environment and go beyond gross domestic product as a measure of human progress and well-being. And really that point was brought up by civil society, and that's where really some of the substances, where we pointed out that we can't eat coal, we can't drink oil, and we definitely can't breathe gas. So, Jewel, what was some of the exciting work that you did, and how are we moving forward to make sure those specifics are then able to make sure that the future of environmental global public policy is rooted in the people and protecting our planet? And thank you. That's a really tough question. So I'll go back to the start first. Thank you also for the invitation. I really, it's a great honor to be amongst some of the people who've been working with us and advising us and mentoring us throughout this process. Yeah, so my name is Yule. I'm joining from Hamburg in Germany today, and I'm with the World's Youth for Climate Justice. So that's the youth movement of young people, of representatives from different youth civil society organizations, all coming together around what we've heard a few times already today, the campaign to take climate change and human rights to the International Court of Justice. And so we joined Stockholm plus 50 as young people. We first joined the Youth Assembly, which took place the two days just before the main conference, where we could learn from each other, meet young people from all around the world, learn about all the great work they were doing, speak about the advisory opinion campaign and get some people involved. And then during the two main days of the conference, we tried reaching out to state representatives, other civil society organizations, meet with existing partners. So those who have already indicated their support, finally seeing them face to face, that was really great. Yeah, and so we are going to the International Court of Justice as a very long journey, but I think this conference for us was a good opportunity to meet and connect and slowly take baby steps towards the right direction. Thank you so much, Rula. It's an honor to spend the time and get to know you here. And David, I know we were both watching from Hawaii, but what's really important as what Alan talked about is, we're finally recognizing implementing the right to clean and healthy and sustainable environment and that perspective of a rights-based approach. Maybe you can share some of the exciting work that you're doing here at University of Hawaii and the exciting work with the Normandy process as well. Sure, thank you, Joshua. It is really a pleasure to be here. Rula, I just saw in Glasgow at the climate conference not long ago and I'm looking forward to seeing Emily and Alan again very soon. So there have been tremendous opportunities for us to share some of the information and knowledge and work that we've been doing in Hawaii with folks around the world and then also learning from others and sharing that with our students and our community. One of the things that we actually were represented at the Stockholm Plus 50 by my predecessor, Denise Santolini, she was there and was one of the folks that had applied for and was accepted, I think only 45 out of 306 applications for official side events at Stockholm Plus 50 were held there and so there was a judge's environmental rule of law on a healthy planet was the side event that they held there and this kind of demonstrating the importance of involving judges in that process and how we're implementing the rights that are in place. Like in Hawaii, we have a constitutional right to the healthy environment. And so not every jurisdiction has that. We've got now the Human Rights Council in Geneva last October, recognized a human right to the environment as a fundamental right. So there are lots of efforts to bring local and more grassroots based efforts to the international level and that's something that we've been really excited to be a part of and sharing and providing a conduit for indigenous knowledge to make its way into the discussion and that's something I've been working on with Emily and others at the Normandy Chair for Peace, even the effort that Eula has spoken about. We had hosted at the 2016 World Conservation Conference a moot court, which is kind of a proof of concept for the effort that Eula is involved in. And of course, Eula and the other youth who are very impressive in their own right are taking it in their own direction and we're just here to provide support for what they're trying to do and we're really happy to be able to do. Thank you for having me. Oh, thank you. And building on what Emily said, what is exciting was the UNEP Executive Director also quoted saying, further inaction is inexcusable. We know now more than ever that the consequence of marching likely down the carbon intensive development path is wrong, but we also know what we must do and let us unleash a paradigm shift for the benefit of future generations. Maybe you can share with us a bit why this ICJ, International Court of Justice Initiative is so important to fulfill what the Executive Director was talking about. Is it for me the question, sorry? Yes. Yes, it can be a paradigm shift to do that. I just wanted to emphasize that we have to, not on the agenda, September 2023, there will be a future summit next year dedicated especially to the recognition of the price of future generation. The recognition on that, the recovery of real organization of institution within the UN in order to promote this long term thinking. So this ICJ campaign is a paradigm shift because it's not contentious case. It can be a momentum in order to give the opportunity to the highest court to promote the rights of future generations. In 1995, in a dissenting opinion, Judge Biramanti wrote an open the way on this action, which is not a legal action actually, but in a sense it provides an opportunity, a historic opportunity to protect the future of the future in a non-contentious case. What does the international law provides as a matrix? And this matrix is to promote and to protect the future of the future. So this is, will be a leading case. And I would like also to emphasize on the fact that the youth, the fact that the campaign is led by the youth is also a paradigm shift. As we know, they're all taking the lead and this is also a tremendous time. You did yourself. Okay, Emily, thank you so much. And moving on then with Alan. Alan, of course you were instrumental in plowing a path forward that was looking at the ICJ as an important venue to make sure that the world is coming together. And we know that in your work, you also did what they agreed to in Stockholm plus 50 of placing human wellbeing at the center of a healthy planet and prosperity for all. Can you share some of the next steps? And we can also build on what Emily shared about the future summit that will take place at the UN General Assembly. We can get towards that at the end, but what are the next steps with what will take place at the International Court of Justice that is based in the Hague? Yeah, thank you very much, Joshua. I'd just like to add a little bit more though on the importance of this because there are a number of different initiatives. So people ask you, you know, why take a case to the International Court of Justice? And it is vital because we know from science that we have to cut the carbon emissions and protect carbon sinks much faster than we're doing. The governments are coming together and there are some who have good intentions but they're failing to act because there are other ones who aren't ready to act because of the vested interests in the fossil fuel economy and they are preventing the action taking forward. So we have to get a legal obligation that is international, that is applicable to everybody. That is not just, you know, one country, you know, a national court in Netherlands or a policy in New Zealand, it has to be universal for us to protect the planet. So that's why we need a decision from the International Court of Justice which will uphold, you know, what is the legal obligation and also what are the human rights aspects here based on science and based on law. How to get to the court? This is not something civil society has direct access to the International Court of Justice. It's called an advisory opinion approach but it's not an opinion of the court. It's a real case and it just distinguishes it from a contentious case which is where one country takes another country to the court. An advisory opinion is a type of case in the court where a particular legal question is being asked of a UN body and in this case, the question is being taken to the UN General Assembly. Vanuatu has already announced that they are working on building a number of countries and working on what the resolution will be and the type of question to ask to the court, they're hoping to get it adopted by the General Assembly resolution by this year which will be in like October this year but that's still a hard road to go because as I mentioned because of the vested financial interests and the fossil fuel economy, there'll be a lot of kickbacks. That's where a global campaign is going to be very, very important and where the voices of the youth are so important because we are talking about actions which are happening today that are having an impact on future generations. We are stealing the future from youth so having youth voices and youth action on this is so important but it also needs others and that's where there's a huge coalition now coming in behind this campaign to support. Thank you so much and it is crucial as we're coming together to build this coalition of civil society but also nations as well to strengthen cooperation and solidarity and Yula maybe you can share with us how exciting it is to be part of this and what you're working on going forward. Yeah, I appreciate the question about this being exciting and I think that's what we try to emphasize. There's, yeah, maybe not enough action happening maybe there's not enough action happening and rightly so we criticize that and I think also with this advisory opinion we are not trying to point fingers but trying to get the world behind that states behind that civil society organizations behind the idea of bringing climate change and human rights together and considering future generations as well. It is very exciting. We have a coalition just a few weeks ago with the lead of Pacific civil society organizations. There's a global coalition of over 1,500 civil society organizations who came behind this youth organizations who have endorsed this. We are in quite a tight timeline so we are hoping that the UN General Assembly will look at that this year so we will be very busy reaching out to capitals the next few months but at the same time what's very important for us as a youth movement even a lot of things that we've spoken about today are not very accessible to most civil society organizations and most young people so in this process we are trying to get people to understand what even is the ICJ most people haven't heard what is the process how can get cases even to the judges and how can then what are points of access so I find that maybe the most exciting part seeing when we first tell someone about this they are quite hesitant they think this is impossible surely we're a little bit too ambitious and then showing them that because of past initiatives like the one that Alan was involved in it is absolutely possible and it's really necessary that we continue this work and that we try to push the impossible seeing how then yeah I think the sparkle shows up in their eyes and they think oh we can really you know this can change the course of history I find that very exciting and I hope to yeah I enjoy being a part of this and I hope to continue seeing it grow okay Anka Yula and as we go forward back to David what is exciting is he's talking about the human rights-based approaches this access to advocacy so the International Court of Justice very important in the Hague you mentioned earlier the Human Rights Council recognizing the right to a clean, healthy, safe sustainable environment is essential and they also adopted a new special procedure a special up during climate change in human rights and he'll be making his first report to the Human Rights Council later this month so David what are some of the other steps that we can look forward to as we overcome these hurdles and organize together to make sure that the rights of future generations are respected Well before I go forward I think I'll just briefly go back a little bit Yula had acknowledged the efforts that Alan was involved in and that led up to the 1996 advisor opinion on the use of nuclear weapons and that was historic I mean there are a lot of people that said that that was a fool's errand you know why would you bother doing this and then but it led to some very, very crucial importance and important developments in environmental law and I also in reference to the Normandy Chair for Peace the Emeritus Chair of the Normandy Chair for Peace was in attendance at Stockholm in 1972 Professor Nicholas Robinson and he gave a really, really moving speech right after Jeffrey Sachs the renowned economist from Harvard and now at Columbia told us gave us the message that's much like what Yula is sharing those concerns Nicholas came back and said hey we've made tremendous progress over the last 50 years since Stockholm think about it in terms of the development of laws generally for environmental law to have come as far as it has come in just 50 years is incredible it may not seem like that to many of the youth who want action to take place more quickly but for those of us who have been on the planet a little bit longer you know to understand the effort that has been involved that really gives us hope for the future and so as the youth are working with governments you know to have Vanuatu that commitment I'll just mention that the chair of the Normandy Chair for Peace was invited to speak in Vanuatu back in 2018 he couldn't attend so I had the pleasure of representing him and met Yula's colleague Solomon Yeoh a young law student from the Solomon Islands who was attending law school in at the University of South Pacific in Vanuatu and so you know they have really it was really lots of on the ground efforts including with the Pacific Forum and other initiatives to really move this forward so a lot of work has gone into this and there's as Yula recognized a lot of work still to be done and so I think it's really you know there are a lot of people whose fingerprints are on this effort and it's really being molded now by the youth and so I'm really excited to hear from Yula about you know the plans going forward and how Alan and myself and Emily and many other really really impressive folks who have far more experience with the International Court of Justice than I do and I'm really excited to see that impressive pool of people come together and activate you know what the youth are demanding from our legal institutions and from governments around the world so it's really exciting to see this take shape when it was just a germ of an idea whether it came from Tony Oppoza or others before Tony Oppoza the chair of the Normandy Chair for Peace it's really to see it happen after you know frustrations about the slow pace of progress in some people's eyes now it feels like we're really when we really must we're really moving forward in a productive way so it's very exciting. Oh thank you so much and great to bring Tony Oppoza into it I remember meeting him in Bangkok at one of the sustainable development voluntary national review preparation meetings and I love his book to get us all thinking in a new way but also I appreciate your perspective on them coming back and going forward as indigenous people said at the Carioca Declaration we're going forward in the footsteps of our ancestors and I remember getting the first ICJ little booklet Alan when I first was starting this human rights journey and the work that I was doing before becoming a professor and it was visionary and it's exciting that we're using all the international instruments because we really do have to reinforce and reinvigorate the multilateral system because for too long the world operated in those silos and we're shattering silos just in closing what would you want us to focus on going forward in the final moments of the program? Yeah I think there is a momentum also something that has been also recalled many times at the Stockholm conference is that we are facing a distance of threats and we're not talking about a social contract whatever you do you agree on or not we're talking about and we're dealing about existential threats to humankind and to all living species living on earth and this is what I call it avoiding the tragedy of human rights and there is a momentum to build bridges between occidental way of thinking with human rights and this front generational approach I'm not talking about intergenerational equity we are talking about transgenerational rights which means fundamental rights for hours present generations towards the future and also building bridges with indigenous people who has already this idea of transgenerational responsibility so I think that to move forward we will do our best to promote the campaign for this year for September 2022 but at least we will meet 2023 at the General Assembly during this future summit and the recognition of human rights for environmental rights as a human rights so I think there is many many steps coming forward so keep you posted Merci beaucoup Alan your closing comment Yeah just how important law actually is to help to create a better future I didn't start my life as a career as a lawyer I was a teacher and I got involved in anti-nuclear movement because I saw the impact of like the nuclear tests on children and women and the threat of nuclear war and then I saw how valuable law had been for us in New Zealand we took France to the International Court of Justice over nuclear tests and it forced France to stop the nuclear testing we've seen other times when war has been so useful in helping shift the political framework so don't be scared you know joining this campaign of taking climate change to the International Court of Justice if you're not a lawyer or don't know law it's for everybody it's a tool for us to use the court is there for us to use as part of the United Nations which was formed with the opening phrase we the peoples of the world in order to ensure that there won't be war you know peace for future generations it's all there these are our institutions we can use them we have to push our governments and we can do that and when we succeed which we will with this case it's going to be a huge shifting point and help to ensure that we do have a sustainable future thank you as we celebrate our 77th anniversary of the UN Charter Day remind us we definitely can do that and Yula final comments yeah no massive thank you for having us and yeah please do join us either if you're a young person the youth movement otherwise the young at heart as an advisor or at the the Alliance yeah we're very excited to to do this with all of you thank you and of course I remember that work Allen in the Pacific and Oceania as we look at what happened in the Marshall Islands and in more area in Tahiti we always have seen the Pacific Islanders rising up and demanding justice pointing out that they're not just drowning but they're fighting for their rights and David what are your final thoughts yeah I think I'm eager to help connect folks if there are any youth watching this in Hawaii or elsewhere I'd be happy to put them in touch with Yula and her her folks or Emily or Alan I think they're whether if this is too intimidating there are lots of other ways to get involved right we've got a bunch of youth in Hawaii just filed a lawsuit against the Department of Transportation and you know the Fukumitsu family was part of one of our our panels for the environmental law program so there are tons of ways for youth to get involved at all ages and that's something that we've been really trying to support is not just law students but trying to provide a vehicle for others to get involved so I'm happy to help facilitate that. That's great, so that's a call for teachers, lawyers, youth, everyone to come together and we also adopted the fossil fuel free non-proliferation treaty to kind of cover that space from the Paris Agreement Hawaii was the first date just to adopt that so there's a lot we can do to recognize our collective responsibility and see that as a cornerstone of sound policy-making to protect the Pacific but our entire planet thank you all for joining us today and look forward to going at the future summit as well as this case at the International Court of Justice in the Hague, Mahalo. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com Mahalo.