 Good morning everybody, we are here in Aroville, Nidam Guest House, my name is Luca, you saw me already in some other previous session. With us today we have a pleasure to have Ishwara Radhakrishna from the Kaurala School of South India, Rameshwara, and daughter and disciple of Pandiji, and we have invited her here to talk with us about a few topics that we are concerned and we would like to deepen our understanding. Mrs. Kishori has been as a child very much in contact with mothers, she has been the mother and she has been the ashram, and we would like also, if it is possible, that she recollect a bit, a bit of reminiscence of her contact when she was a child and she was, I would say, a pumper or having attention from mother. But also we would like to ask her some clarification as she is quite an authority in the matter about Shaktipaura, Shaktipaura for Cirobindo Yoga and in the traditional Kaurala Sevidya and the connection and possible parallel that we have between these two schools that they are somehow collaborating and working together for so many years. So, Kishori, we are very much longing to have your guidance and your clarification on this matter and to hear how were your meeting as a child with mother, with Meera mother. The first introduction means, for some reason, mother was searching an apt person to meet. At that time, shall I mention the name? Sure. Sudpremji. Sudprem. One of a French man or somebody he came to Rameshwaram in search of that because he was informed by one Sanyasi from Calcutta my Guruji's name. So, he came to Rameshwaram in search of my Guruji. That means he was informed everything about my Guruji. So, he came to take my Guruji to the Sri Aravinda Ashram to have one meeting with the mother of Ashram. So, at that time, I myself, we were not a rich person. We were the poor traditional Brahmin society. At that time, Sudpremji came and he told something because I was in that presence, because I am the pet child of my Guruji, father, but not a pet, but all the children are pet, but something I used to sit always with him. He used to patronize me like that. So, at that time, he told my father, I won't mention that often to my father, but here I have to, father, will you be able to treat something for the mother? So, he came in search of my father and my father said, I will try my level best. And he came. It was, I think it is 1956, we came. Sudprem book, the train ticket, only train travel was there, no road, nothing was there at that time. I am speaking 1956 story. At that time, only Rameshwaram to other places, train was there, nothing, no road. So, we were booked that train ticket there and we came to Pondicherry, there I was taken with my father to mother's room first. Then we went, the mother was, my father was honored by the mother in one aspect and she had the question, she had the defect to remove that, she was given some advices and also my father did some mantra therapy. That means here, we have to say about the power of the mantra. The mantra is of two kind, one is for our own therapy, the second if you are having the capacity over the mantra, you can for some extent give others also some therapy. My father also, we belong because we were the traditional people always doing mantra, Japan, no internet, no YouTube, no Google at that time. So, even we won't go for cinema, no cinema, no hero, no heroine. We know only school and coming to school from school, mantra, puja, japa, parayana, sloka, that's all. We were brought up like that only. So, my Guruji did something because it is a secret in between my father and the mother. So, my Guruji did mantra for that. Maybe it's what she had and what my Guruji did that they both only know. So, afterwards she had some hope upon my Guruji because if you are not getting any good symptoms means you won't have any hope of others. If you are getting something from me, from the mantra which I gave to you, if you don't have any good effect means you won't respect me, you won't have the value because human beings are always stressed upon the value only they are having faith. So, mother had that good symptoms maybe. So, he patronized my father. She gave because we belong to the poor Brahminic society. She gave my father for some extent is not willing to take any richness or anything from her. That also I have to mention here because he used to tell great ma, because we are also Shaktipur Shipper. So, we say as mother, not this mother we say for them the mother that is almighty mother. My father used to say when we are small children my mother won't let me go like this. Certainly in one or other day she will help me. She will help me. Just like that he used to say in which condition because I have three elder sister also they were got married and they had the children also in olden days for the poor people marriage is something beyond their condition. He gave marriage that is two, three daughters and also he had that delivery time also he had the same position. He was having so many kids and all. My mother used as a common wife she also used to tell my father you are doing this puja and all you are not caring for that household thing how I can manage I need something for that. At that time because I heard that it is the truth my father as a joke he used to say you think my mother won't let me go like this one day or other I will give you enough money more than enough money to maintain. She was referring to mother referring to the almighty mother but always deva manusharupena Devata won't come as it is with four heads, four limbs and all but it will help you through via some people some manusharupa say the help will come to you by the almighty if she is willing to help you means in one or other way somebody will come and help you this is the symptom cause it bone asirvada for asirvada bone this is the asirvada of mother say the name also coincides she also was called as the mother of asirvada we are all the follower of the mother of the supreme almighty so we daily we used to pray srimatha, srimaharadhi srimasimhasaneshwari so see the same name and the name is not changed the mother the cover which full of money I have seen I have enjoyed that money will be written nothing seeking your some french word you are well-wished for that some french word and the hand writing still I am having hand writing and the cover mother wrote mother wrote letter to my marriage also you were blessed by mother yes at that time of my marriage mother from her handwriting she gave blessings so what is that I am saying always if you believe God the power is there to help you what you have to do it is your faith and belief the faith and belief never goes waste never be wasted one or other day it will give you for that 150% you nothing will be wasted in the worship or mantra or anything because everything will have its own effect so after coming to mother mother because of the one sight the people will understand no always I am with my father and she thought that maybe I am not sure this patra is somewhat will do that japa or something in my because only I was 8 9 years old not more than that at that time mother may be knowing me that I will be following that Guruji but not 100% I am not 100% but somewhat for my satisfaction I am following my Guruji so he used to call me even if my father is not there after finishing his interview with the mother mother used to call me the people will come and say mother wants to meet so I will go their mother used to recite ask me to recite the Sri Vidya Mantra some Kalidasa sloka just like that so she was very interested in Sri Vidya and from your mother yes because she was very much wondering of 8 9 years old girl is reciting the Lelta Sasanama with the pronunciation so she was wondering at that time what the tape recorder was now he knew to us we don't know we don't know anything in the scientific because we were poor we don't have any radio after mother came only we had that tape recorder she gave me first that the pool they say no that recording our self and when we speak it will be recorded and again we can hear our own voice like that it was a great wonder at that time for me so without my knowledge he told somebody to record like that when I was reciting Lelta Sasanama and after I finished mother asked that was working I wonder how where I am I am doing that Lelta Sasanama again then I saw that pool that the tape recorder is working so it was that she had some good I had some good environment with mother and she liked that and she had I had four five times I went to mother's room then and each day she I will be presented something good you want to mother some good dress some good compliments some good things so many things I was given from the mother she is the lady which I cannot forget in my life how do you see her mother conditional spiritual mother related to the tradition of the Shakti because the Shakti is generally also only understood as a duality but what I understand from your teaching actually Shakti can also be very much known duality in his Adi Shakti aspect and when you mother having her Shakti power how did you understood it how did you relate to this different non-traditional it was there this power one thing is that I was only nine ten years afterwards what I had with mother was not in that aspect of discussing about any Shakti worship of her but when I had meeting when I was reciting the Maktras Loka and all she was very much pleased with that I know so she is also not deviating from that of Shakti worship that because if she is not bothering about that Shakti worship mean she won't call me as a small girl to recite this mantra and all why she has to call me to do the japa and all in front of her she liked that to hear because in our tradition we call these small girls as Bala from the Bala she wants to hear something about the almighty she may be thinking that some good person is coming because I don't know in that age how much I was good how much percentage I was good but eight nine years old I used to sit but I won't do any mischiefs that also I am sure I will be sitting calmly and I will be reciting because that was regulated by my Guruji when you are doing puja you should not do unwanted action so this is the basic thing that the basic thing she liked from me maybe in the western customs it was not maybe at that time I don't know what about the western customs this small girl is doing this much of worship maybe she is wondering I don't know but she gave me so many things she gave me that a radiogram at that day radio and gram of phone radiogram it is said so those things are given by the mother to me radiogram record player or that what do you call that pool and tape recorder all these things and a small mobile radio that transistor there are so many things these are all my memory I was presented by the mother so I think if she is another thing if she is not liking means she won't patronize my Guruji because she wanted his she thought that his worship is good that means I have some value then only she was doing that no otherwise if you are not valuing anything means you won't listen to that person isn't it is it not true yes yes if the mother is not having belief on the worship means she won't give anything to my father she may give something to my father and he will go and she will be but often and often often and often she used to call him and if we once in a year thrice in a year we used to come here so you came also to matrimandri I understand matrimandri at that time where was the matrimandri to the banyan near matrimandri only to the tupandichari we used to that too how from vilipuram vilipuram junction we won't come to Chennai in the vilipuram up to vilipuram only we will come in the train there we will get down there minimum five cars will come for us to take from vilipuram to pandichari these kind of respect if one person give to other person means certainly some value must be there some good thing must be there some virtue must be there otherwise unless it won't be happened because she is the mother of one big organization why she has to give that much of respect to my father that to your poor Brahmin and why she has to give that much of respect why she has to call him as a pandichi why she has to ask all her disciples of the ashrams to go and meet pandichi and get something from him so many foreigners were introduced were advised by the mother to come and meet my father my father had so many disciples all over the world still now are there they are all introduced by the mother only if she is not fulfilled that means satisfied with my father she won't give anything and she won't ask other also to get some good from this person it was narrated that mother after the session with guru ji pandichi guru is a minute a bit the mantra with more attention if it was also possible to use in her yoga as a tool for her yoga he says so and apparently there is also some book that has laid down a minimum of mantra sadhana for integral yoga would you like to speak to us a little bit more about the mantra and the shakti pass see mostly in our Hindu dharma that means our sanatana dharma we don't have any veda that means dispute or different with any deities any deities means be for certain extent to some extreme we accept the Vaishnavas we accept the Saivas we accept the cows saura we accept the komara we accept the surya everything is accepted in our sanatana dharma this sanatana dharma is that it is ugabat it is called the ugabat ugabat means ugabat coming together you have heard of that word ugabat ugabat is together satsang together we always come closer if not so in those days how can my father used to give mantra for a farina for a lekar because my father knew the reality he from the reality he was thinking really there is no difference between the human being that means what we are seeing we are seeing that sarira only but we are not seeing the atma there but one who realized about that he will see only the atma not the outward things how I am seeing your dress I don't bother about your dress just like that I won't bother about your race your caste anything but I want your bhavana bhavana here the atma darsha how what you are thinking and how are you not your bio-data I am not satisfied with your bio-data I am satisfied with your antar-atma antar-atma you know in her being I will be more satisfied with your antar-atma than by your if you give can you give me more dakshanas for some extent I will be pleased but after a minute I will think this antar-atma is not good if I sing so I won't be satisfied with you with the dakshana dakshana won't do anything because one day it will come and another day it will go if I am thinking for the dakshana mainly then my virtue also will be deleted because we people that too traditional Bhaskara people what I am coming from the kaulam arva this kaula is the supreme way of attaining the person's realization real realization that means what you have to have the anubhuti anubhuti experience you have to experience yourself that I am not this ordinary cheap person this anubhuti should come until that you have to do the meditation japa this was the bhavana and advice and my gurus wish to all of us we must have that bhavana that anubhuti even the first level people who are initiated from there also we need this bhavana and I am not linked with the sarira most I am the one real in my atma you should not bother about the outward things always seeing the outward things it is sir we don't like it is something cheaper what is really you are that is most considered this is the kaula marga real kaula is that you can say what some extent to the advaitha marga also because the kaula marga there is nobody as equal to shankaracharya adi shankaracharya he was the most famous one of upasana of shakti there also he had see how he has priced shakti you know shiva shaktya yukto eti bhavati shaktaprabhavitam it is his soundary alagari in his soundary alagari the first version is like that shiva shaktya yukto eti bhavati shaktaprabhavitam that means if shiva is with shakti only can even move even shankaracharya was the most advaitha but he was actually a shakti past member as well great upasaka of shakti in fact even we have noted like ramanamash shakti upasana only what he wanted to teach the people the advaitha supreme unity yes can get how we can get the union of the parabrahma that means the what for the parabrahma i forgot for the ultimate reality so how we can reach how we can take us to that parabrahma unless and until no proper way of going we cannot go by in rocket nothing is possible so this mantra anushtana this tradition this marga takes us near to the parabrahma so this is that in gayatri also it is said om bhu bhuva savitur bhargo devasya dhima the total meaning i say beach mata the supreme superior mata of gayatri said the veda mata veda you know the four vedas and veda also included in this upanishad also included when we say veda mata veda mata gayatri is attained only by the people who knows about her she is having the capacity of creation maintenance and protection and destruction she is the cause she is the cause and the other two protector and also destructor so you are saying that even the most advanced shankaracharya was a shakti path and in fact we also know that another big advisor like Ramana Maharshi he was also a shakti path because he had a meru he put the meru on the on the temple building his mama tomb he was in a very fond of Shri Chakra that he drew himself and organized there and in a way I can see what your words say even a robindo has wrote this one of this big poem that is Savitri of Savitya Satyavan Savitri that saves Satyavan the female principle brought the realization of the main you know the story of Satyavan and Savitri just like that in every human beings that Savitri Shakti is there Savitri means that Chaitanya Chaitanya means Chit Shakti in every human being you say even inside ourselves we have both of them otherwise you cannot move if you don't have Chit Shakti you will be just like a jeta that opaque or in it if you are having that Chit Shakti then only you can work you can at least stand this Chit Shakti we called the power that Shakti Mata Gayatri Savitri Saraswati Lakshmi all the names it is called the Vimarsha Vimarsha Vimarsha Vimarsha Vimarsha in Nanavidha names Nanavidha Nama that means so many kinds of forms under names it is called Vimarsha see if one collector is coming means how the people will work there will be so much Nanavidha Pramana orders will go that the police constable will go and the inspector will be doing something the DGP will be doing something and this man that man will be in the strict uniform and everything will be if he is coming to inspector school means how the school will be the students will be taking bath giving that uniform everything the classes will be full and the teacher will be in good uniform they won't speak until that collector goes they will be maintaining pin drop silent and we are seeing that that is called the Vimarsha Vimarsha means having the Prabhava that is also Sanskrit word Prabhava means Prakarsha influence maybe Prabhava authority influence in Prakarsha for Prakarsha also I don't know Prakarsha it is better than next time you give me one Sanskrit to English dictionary I thought we have one here not easy translation sometimes it doesn't even exist translation from Sanskrit Prakarsha, Prabhava Vimarsha all these are the words for Shakti now come to the Shakti Tattva what is Shakti Tattva Shakti Tattva means for that you have to know something about the prepancha knowledge prepancha universe cosmos not only this world all the world not only that solar this galaxy and other galaxy that means cosmos there you have to have a little bit of knowledge of that cosmology or something like that for that in all the religion it is accepted that there is a creator otherwise these creations won't come we are all creation that you accept this prepancha this world what we see are created created would know but this is not a man made you can't make a banyan tree you can plant a banyan tree there is a different you can plant a banyan tree but you cannot make a banyan tree you can give birth to a child but you cannot make a child that different you understand yes very much the make one who is the producer production is called the power production for production some power must be needed some Shakti is needed without power without capacity without eligibility nothing can be produced if you want to produce one car means at least you must have the understand what this car what are the mechanism inside the car then only you can produce a car you must know something about the car same thing for everything for to prepare one table he must know which from which would I have to prepare from that all the would are not suitable for preparing table or all the would is not suitable for preparing cupboard so all the would not preparing for the beam for the house so there are different varieties of wood from which he has to select the apt wood to prepare to produce own table or child so for each level that governing point is needed management that kind of knowledge is needed to produce one thing so how much knowledge does our Shakti have to produce the ultimate the whole cosmos in my heart operation doctors were thinking and doing and thinking and researching and doing and so many part one MD one MS and so many assistant MS and one is for liver, one is for stomach, one is for heart one is for lung all these people are working coincidentally to do the operation for dissection maybe it is a dissection but to prepare all these heart and all the organs to probe what you call to make all the organs inner our thing in our body how the knowledge is the Shakti has isn't it she is a great doctor to making the operation surgery we need this much of knowledge means to assembling all these organs how much knowledge is she is having so the god must have good technical office when he manufacture ass so we call as the great medicinal Vaidyanath we call him Vaidyanath he is the superior for the Vaidya you mean doctors so this is the Shakti power he is the north of Vaidya this is the Shakti power all that doing, activating his Shakti part that is chaitanya simple things that the ultimate creator is something in his that is something it is called satchit ananda this satt power never do anything it is opaque for that the symbol is putting shivalinga shivalinga is just like that it cannot move anywhere but shakti is the chaitanya part chitta part that means the consciousness chaitanya is the conscious but it is a nuclear effect only it is the potential effect so it won't do any action it is a sakshi sakshi you mean what is that? witness thank you he is the witness he can witness you each and every where he is he is witnessing but the chaitanya is making you to act this chaitanya as the gunas because one who is acting means surely there must be qualification also because you won't act like me I cannot act like you this is different we are all different even that son and father also different son need not be like father there are so many intellectual father buddhu sons for buddhu father intellectual son you know understand buddhu foolish father may be buddhu anyway the son need not be like his father he made it for how many uneducated family see abdul kala for example president? yes how vidhwan he was scholar intellectual he came from a small poor ordinary family only his father was not a good knowledgeable person like that but how he came so like that father may be uneducated means may be ignorant and son will be intellectual and father may how many professors and good PhD doctors as good son you know nothing don't have the examples for a good father good son there are bad what you call udharan udharan for examples are there so sakti has the qualification what are the qualification three major division of qualification that sattva guna rajya guna and tamo guna what is meant by sattva guna knowledge intellectual if your mind your mind that is bottom purity that is sterilized refined revised sattva guna what is meant by rajya guna mainly dynamic aspect action having all the feelings all the feelings anger and everything all the activities all we are having in our this experience all our what we call perfect rajya guna what we are feeling what this passion passion passion also these are called a rajya guna tamo guna is there in asya not only in asya it will be like that in one day it will destroy others also so a negative aspect also destruction aspect also so these three guna the guna and the shakti the creation the creator and these three are also our inner being these are inside all of us it is not an abstraction intellectual we are talking about ourselves and how we express the way we express so now I am going to the lineage how we think how the shakti aspect according to the kaula school there the parabrahma is there that means before the creation you just imagine before the creation before the cosmos there was only one satt existence sadeva samyay idam agra aseed it is that upanishad vakyam sadeva samyay idam agra aseed agra means previously aseed means was means only that existing reality was before the creation and at that time that superior ultimate parabrahma that means it wanted to create something it had that wants intention to create that intention itself is called maya is intention is called the adishakti he wants to create something that wants because the parabrahma when it was without anything produced it was just existence when it was ready to create that ready to create becomes from the maya that what we call the adishakti adishakti parashakti srisakti from that parabrahma keeta janani just I called you this adishakti eat the chitchakti of the parabrahma because when the parabrahma ready to create means it become satchitananda satchitananda rupa there the chit became to activate so from oneness one atom the atom is one if we divide the atom there are three particles one is positive energy one is negative energy one is nuclear energy the nuclear energy is the sattva part the positive energy is the shiva part the negative energy is shakti part always you understand the shakti in negative energy if it is negative energy only then it can activate he told me to you about that shakti tattva so I have started that then I will shortly I will give you some short opinion this shakti became the chitchakti of the parabrahma by the existence because it is nothing no different from the parabrahma this chakti is that one thing it has the existing power of swat and it has the ananda power of ananda that means bliss this chitchakti first it became dual that means purusharopa and sthiropa purusharopa male and sthiropa female this is called parashiva and parashakti first adishakti with parabrahma it produced parashiva and parashakti this is the union of parashakti and parabrahma parashiva brahma vishnu rudra from that all the karana rupa prapancha came the karana rupa this shakti after producing the brahma vishnu rudra she decided to produce the world this world for that for a if you want to draw a drawing in a place means first you have to select the place where you have to draw then you must have the idea of what is going to be drawn if you don't have that frame in your mind you cannot draw that if you ask the painter he will say he must have all the thorough knowledge in his mind in his buddhi then only he will touch the with his paint that too first with the sketch line then he will give the coloring and all just like that that parashakti first produced the place the place is called the akasha tattva akasha means it is the space the space is selected first and which all this production can be put the canvas of your painting space space is necessary for the production without space we cannot put anything in the production if you want to keep chair means you need a place for that to keep a chair chair if you want to put a sofa means you select the place for that if you want to go to chennai means you select the place where you will stay everything we select the space first space is the first production that is akasha and then comes the sukshma production space is a sukshma and vayu vayu means also one subtle thing we cannot see the vayu we can have that sparsha of vayu if it touch your hand we can say yes there is air you feel the air but you cannot see the air so vayu is translated as air then comes the agni agni means fire tattva these are all tattvas first viyoma viyoma means akasha akasha means again space and akasha is vayu vayu or agni agni means fire the fire we can see agni or apu apu means water and apu prithvi but these are all having their own tattva also that if I am going to tell the tattva it will take even more than 2 or 3 hours akasha only one tattva that is sound vayu, two tattva sabda and sparsha just I am mentioning 3 tattva sabda, sparsha, rupa rupa means you can see that agni vision form and time what about time time space and time space is the sabda prama only the sabda is there if you go to space you can hear but that our hear is not able to hear the space sabda it is brahmanda sabda even if you draw one thing from there you hear that things if you draw pull or push material one chair how much sound it is making how many many global satellites earth, satan everything are moving in the space how much sound it will produce can you imagine how much speed it is revolving rotating and moving can you imagine that sabda never because of your goodness God made us death for the space sabda otherwise we cannot even speak or hear anything when the moon comes we will be hearing the moon's rotation only we cannot speak we cannot hear so everything according to us is moving silently but it is not like that very sound but kala the time that is that will come with the thurya now I am coming with the srishti srishti krama this is called krama what is that 12-13 now we have to end because we have come to the prathivi so we will have another session but you were all asking for a particular one yes first you have to have the knowledge of sarirathriya what is meant by sarirathriya it is our stula sarira what we see the body then our sukshma sarira that is subtle body then our karana sarira that is causal body these three sariras are called sarirathriya in the sukshma stula sarira first we know that we are doing all that we speak we eat we do all the activities one who is doing in the stula sarira is called vishwan we have so many names but we are all vishwan the same name vishwan all that karanas we are doing each and everybody has its own or her own activities that is karana and this vishwan is doing something in the jagratavasta jagrat is awakened stula sarira activates only when you are in the awakened state jagratasthiti jagratasthiti I will say like that you understand in the awakened state open state when you are not sleeping that is stage but sukshma sarira sukshma sarira activate when you sleep before deep sleep in between you are having some imagination and your own creation that is called the swapna in our life all of us have swapna, swapna means dream each one some dreams we have that dream I am not speaking about your aim but dream the real dream what we are seeing in our swapna so this dreamed state is called swapna avasta or the sukshma sarira I am shortly informing this sukshma sarira there one person is producing and enjoying that swapna you know you are seeing the swapna and there in the swapna you are enjoying something are you understand able to catch me yes swapna again is the state of dream so we are enjoying the dream you yourself produce the dream I am not produced any dream to you I can't produce a dream for you you are seeing the dream that is your own production you become the sakthi tattva there that is called the jiva creation we are all the parabrahma creation but we produce in dream that is jiva creation the creation of the individual jiva yes jiva means individual this who create the dream is called thayjasan all of us when we are dreaming we are called thayjasan that different name vishwan when we are activating the jagradavasta jagradavasta now you have to know that in your mind you also jagradavasta that is waking state waking state and swapnaavasta dreaming state so the meditation is in between meditation when you are in the state of meditation where are we where are we I think you are dreaming in meditation or as meditation you are dreaming what is the real are you dreaming in meditation or you are meditating and dreaming sometime is not clear it is in between meditation is with full of consciousness otherwise it is not called as meditation so is the first one jagrad when we dream we have semi-consciousness we dream we sleep but the deep sleep in between the deep sleep we are having some state it is called swapnaavasta each one is called avastha in such great avastha means experience good or bad in good swapna if you become a king in this dream it means it is good avastha you know your money is bad swastha and again sorry to and then we speak about the fourth state of our consciousness now I am coming settle then see the time the time is important always time is important because kala is samara rupa so this dreaming avastha after that we go to the deep sleep there we don't know anything there you are not looking I am not kishori she is not that each and everybody say that is karnavasta there only we are having our vasana prepancha vasana means spriti remembrance desire in one aspect but it is not what we desire it is already decided recorded that is vasana see in your if you are born and brought up you are not decided to have birth in that family or in this house or in this area or in this state or this country we are not decided anything it is already decided where you have to take birth by in which as parent your parent is also decided your height and weight also decided your color decided your convocation decided everything decided for some extent we can make ourselves just like that doing mantra we can yesterday I told the radios the vasana vasana here now you understand yes you vasana must be taro one day I will ask you who is thai jasana and who is thai jasana who is this vasana avastha his name is pragyan what is his name pragyan pragyan means full knowledge only but in that stage we don't have anything we are in avarana that avidya avidya state only one supreme shakti is activating us without the supreme shakti we won't get up if you go to sleep then that's all finished for us because daily we don't have anything to do with that daily you are going to sleep in the sleep what you think if you think anything means you are not sleeping understand I understand unfortunately if you think anything you are not sleeping you are lucid dreaming also there is a new but anyway now what look like kala today has given us after these three first vishwa thai jasana and pragyan from that these three names one person is having we the vishwa produce the dream become the thai jasana in dreaming state and this thai jasana go to the deep sleep and take the name as pragya so vishwa thai jasana pragya but this vishwa also as we dream turiya is dreaming ask that you are the dreamed person you think that you are in jagratavasta that means I am in real but you are not real someone is dreaming like you is dreaming to be you someone is dreaming to be a you be you for you, for me, for all for everybody someone is dreaming as we dream in our dream we produce so many things in dream how many items we prepare so many items we see so many streets, so many buildings everything in our dream comes how it able to come just like that this turiya he has no connection with vishwa, thai jasana and pragya that fourth stage is called turiya he is completely away from the vishwan how we are completely away from the thai jasana after getting up from the sleep do you want to have the same thing which you take in the dream in the dream you may be a good king with this some golden throne and hall but in golden cup you may drink but do you have that golden cup in your jagar dhavastha when you wake up do you have that all those things no the dream itself it is katham it is finished when you come away sometimes the people used to dream like that the tiger is coming to kill you like that and all the small boys see always high like that and they will cry what is that bad dreams there are good dreams bad dreams also but no tiger when we get up no tiger nothing but we produce the tiger we dream like that that tiger came to catch us where the tiger where the person it is you who produce that tiger who produce that man and the action also but turra is independent from all this you are saying just like that you imagine now I am speaking with you it is a dream of turra when we get up from this avastha vishwa we will become a turra with this last word when we get up from this avastha this jagra avastha it is also a dream this much value you have to give for the our worldly thing it is a dreaming world when you get up from the dream you will say some different thing you will see we thank you very much Hishori for all this clarification all these insights and we hope that we will have that much more she told me that she is coming so please