 Adam and Justin aren't here. Yeah, it's good. It's quiet. Yeah, it's it's peaceful Yes, the smell is nice in the studio and I get to do whatever the hell I want Yes, so two things that I'm doing here number one I'm not wearing any clothes because I don't have to worry about those two guys and Doug doesn't mind No, it's a great. Yeah, he's he he's a naked guy usually But the second thing I want to do is I wanted to do a huge promotion For the month month of March, so before I go into it check this out. So our two big Bundles are the RGB bundle and the map super bundle now the RGB bundle Includes maps anabolic maps performance and maps aesthetic now these programs are Programs by themselves, but if you combine all three of them you get nine months of exercise programming They are considered our core Maps programs and what we do is we put them all together And we cut 25% off the price so you get a huge discount plus you get our mods for free We have a sexy sexy athlete mod which teaches you how to meld Green and black together our maps performance and maps aesthetic together in other words rather than doing one after another you actually combine them and It it's called sexy athlete mod because you get your athletic performance along with the aesthetics of maps aesthetic It also comes with the butt builder blueprint Which takes maps anabolic and maps aesthetic combines them and teaches you how to do focus sessions and trigger sessions Specifically for your glutes We also throw in with the RGB bundle the kettlebell for aesthetics program Which is a program based on purely kettlebell type exercises So if you have a pair of kettlebells, that's all you want to do the kb4 a program is perfect That's all included with the RGB bundle and it's all 25% off now the map super bundle is the next Level and that has all of that, but it also includes Maps anywhere, which is our maps program that's designed to teach you how to exercise or show you workouts to do at home Without any equipment's perfect if you travel It's a great bridge between maps program. So let's say you do maps anabolic You're ready to go into mass performance Maps anywhere is a great bridge between them because it teaches it's all bodyweight type training So it gives you good Proprioception good control we get lots of Compliments on the programming that goes behind this because bodyweight workouts can be very basic Many times and maps anywhere is anything but basic. We also include our most popular program or more recent program Maps prime now. This is the only program. I know of in existence that will take you through a self-assessment We call it a compass and based on the compass based on how your body moves it directs you To do Exercises or particular movements to set you up for your workouts So in other words, you've got an eight-minute priming session That's individualized that you do before your workout and the reality is with mass prime It doesn't matter what you do whether you're competing in a sport You can prime yourself before your sport Whether you're doing a maps workout or you're doing your own workout if you prime your workout properly Sensual nervous system fires better you get optimal muscle recruitment patterns you get better adaptations We also help you with post-prime in other words what you do after your workout to Direct the type of adaptation signal that you sent. It's an extremely Unique and advanced in terms of design Program, but both maps anywhere bad and maps prime are included with the maps super bundle And so we take all those programs and then we cut 33% off So those two things are awesome all by themselves. We'll check this out for the month of March Enroll and either the RGB bundle or the map super bundle and we're gonna give you our forum Access to our private forum for free for life. That's it. You pay nothing else ever You enroll in those you get on the forum now you can ask questions me Justin and Adam are on there all the time You can get guidance. There's lots of trainers on there. It's pretty awesome And you know keep in mind at the end of this month the forum price is gonna go up But once you're in you're in that's it for life. So Again, a little rundown the RGB bundle the or the map super bundle already discounted including and they give you all the programming You're in need, but you get the forum for free in the month of March That's our big promotion. You can find all of this at mind pump media calm If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go With your hosts Sal DeStefano Adam Schaefer and Justin Andrews That's Neil Diamond to that is Neil Diamond. Is that Neil Diamond? What were you thinking? I didn't know that was Neil Diamond. What song were you? What's a song that you know from Neil Diamond? I don't know any songs And if I did I wouldn't write you know what I have to apologize to you Adam I've made you very self-conscious more self-conscious about your singing than you should be Wow, you're so guilty. No, I'm not saying that he doesn't suck because he's terrible Don't feel guilty, but I don't want him to feel bad about it. You're his friend. You can throw it out there Adam sounds like he's trying to sing bad when he sings He doesn't sound like a person who can't sing he sounds like a person trying to not be able to sing I still don't want to feel self-conscious Yeah, too late Too late now anytime you guys start singing in the beginning I instantly start getting highs all over my body because I'm nervous You're gonna look to me. You know what? I've heard you sing and hum more than ever Because I know now you think it's hilarious all the way to go because I'm practicing. I'm trying to get better I have you know like anything else. I you know if I'm not good at it I want to I want to get better You know what was funny and this I'm sure this episode is gonna air this one will probably air before Ben's episode Maybe the Ben Greenfield one. I don't know why don't keep doing that Well, I don't care okay in the beginning in a house like Justin will sing or I'll sing a little bit And when Ben jumps in with this freaking oh, yeah, he's got all the way He's got good pipes. He's got good pipes, but he knows every single word I just I kind of like trail off. I guess I was jealous because he knew every single word Yeah, yeah, keep going of course. He's got a good voice. Yeah, he's got it We're trying to like stomp him with like And he hit it like fucking nails, but he went for too long. You know what I mean by too long like yeah, okay Yeah, yeah, I was like your point. Oh my god. I think I'm gonna jump on piano for you So I got my I wanted to go back and forth with him. He wasn't catching any of that Drowned me out. Yeah, he like Mariah carried my ass There's no his podcast stars just him. So he's not He's not used to feeding off of anybody else. Imagine how epic that would have been if he's like Let's be honest Justin, let's be honest I don't I I can understand because you are a spotlight stealer. No, I'm not you are the way You're a fucking spotlight stealer. Let's look at the facts No, every time there's a fucking poll on Instagram or on the forum Here's what the polls are. I'm a shitty my way to the top favorite host or who would you rather have sex with who would you like to Mind pump story Justin every time Justin wins every single time. Yeah. Yeah, they only knew such an asshole to us. It's not fair It's purely a facade. Well, you listeners don't know is he's a dickhead. Yeah, it sounds so nice I ruled you and jovial on the on the on the podcast Jovial see that's a great. That's like a fat joke for Santa Claus Doesn't that come across like a fat joke? That's what you use for Santa Claus That's how you that's how you call someone fat in it. Yeah, you're like in a nice way here. Yeah, here Here's an upper like it was a downer like, you know, you're always in a good mood. You always seem to be quite jolly Thanks for that compliment Thanks for making me feel something Big fat Santa Claus Jolly he just called me jolly like fuck you bro. Wait a second. You're well insulated. Yeah You're comfortable jovial ish Jesus, but anyway nice and warm. I think I think those arcade games in the gym were a bad idea Oh, I know so far in some intense so far. We've been here since 9 a.m We have recorded one episode and this one which isn't even complete yet and we've played four games Yeah, four long games all four quarters It's not totally like unproductive like I think it's stimulated us. I do too. I think it's very it was very productive Yeah, it is but Adam keeps winning Just like when my business partner comes in like right when we're like in mid-session. I'm like fuck you Trying to like score that was so great Hey, what's up? That's your partner with the stick, right? She's okay. So she's that what's her role out of I've met a couple Right. She's a patent attorney. So she's the patent attorney. So the patent attorney comes walking in our studio All four of us Fucking dog on you We are like in the NBA jam like super intense and she's like just standing there and I look over my shoulder I have no idea who this lady is and then Justin. Oh shit. Yeah. Yeah. No, we were working real hard over here She's like I picked the wrong partner. Yeah, this is great, right? Has she been here? You're gonna kill it. No, I don't think she has has she? No, no, we know we just mad Swear to God. What I did damn it. What you why don't you show her around man? Sure the inside of the studio get her all excited about everything Justin's a mean partner You got her out real quick. No, you know what I did her my other partner I took through here like briefly, but I didn't show her like the inside of the studio Which I probably shouldn't get them all pumped up and I should introduce them to Adam cuz you show You sure the secret room dude it caught me like off guard. You know what I mean? You got caught jacking off that's exactly that's what it felt like. That's exactly what you like Oh, that's how you reacted to that is all Justin is not the guy who like I think I'd love to ask Courtney this to like you would not be a good liar You're part of the worst worst right away. You just dead give like dead give away Just as the wrong is guilty One time in the shower and I look over It was like I saw a ghost Oh Like hunched over you know, I'm kind of like looking up You know, I keep picturing we were talking about this the other day, you know what a dog's taking a poop Yeah, and he looks over that's Justin in the shower. I think he's got that the posterior pelvic tilt And he looks over really quiet my wife won't catch me It's like scared my soul out of my body for a second She asked you what you were doing or what did you know she knew she's a sugar. She knew she's a sugar head She actually has a face for me because I'm like if you ever fucking show me that face again, we are not married What a double standard she got me what a double step. Could you imagine if you walked in on her? He'd be like the greatest day of your life. No, but it's just ever happens. It's hot right there, right? I wish walking well, they can hide it real easy. You know, I mean like you can't hide it Not really if it's like Moving around in oh shit didn't turn out all you could do is all you could do is like face your butt towards them So they can't see what's going on like turns. Oh, there's my back. Why don't you turn around Justin? Yeah, nothing I got nothing. Hey, didn't you didn't you have some fitness you wanted to talk about? Fitness. Yeah. Oh, yeah Yeah, you had something you wanted to help people with no, you know what I want to talk about What a great segue God master ready. Thank you guys for bringing that out of abrupt No, I want to talk about I've had people ask me quite a few times over the past few months We've touched upon this subject a few times on on older podcasts and it's on You know, why why it's more effective to undulate your calories versus being so consistent Every single day, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah Like I think when people are trying to lose weight or whatever and they figure out that they're they need to eat I don't know 1500 calories a day to be at a deficit that they make every single day you know, right around 1500 calories and It's so much more effective to move that up and down and average out over 1500 calories If that's the number you want to hit It's better. You're better off averaging out over the course of a week at 1500 calories a day versus hitting 1500 every single day. Does that does that kind of make sense? Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely Do you recommend something similar to your no 100% I here's though I feel like there's a process to get there like I think you first have to Become aware of how you're consuming and this is why I'm I'm such a I'm so heavy on Tracking and I tell all my clients like when we first start off like tracking is a must it's a must because I just want to make You aware and most people are just they're unaware that they're unaware So the awareness of what you're consuming and where your your calories are at so for that for that purpose I'll put them in it, you know First the first like I always talk about the first week I track and see where they're at and then from there Based off of their already current habits I'm gonna take their average core can take and I'm going to keep it about the same, you know Based off their goal if they're trying to reduce body fat and their calories are up high enough I may put them in a slight deficit But really I'm just going to change their macros around because I now I want to start teaching them about food And I want them to track and at first first, it's consistent Yes, it's because it gets something to get used to get used to it Yes, it's starting a found it's starting a in my opinion a solid nutritional foundation Then so then once they get an understanding of that and they're and they've been following that for a while Then I can start to manipulate macros and I can start to show them like listen It's actually really good for you to go have a 2200 calorie day and then turn around and you're gonna have like a 1300 calorie day we can do that as long as the average it's averaging out where we should be that's a great point because Undulating your calories is a step towards intuitive eating. Yes Besides okay, so let's talk a little bit about the benefits first before I talk about why that's a step towards intuitive eating number one the body is very good at adapting To whatever you throw at it and if you're very consistent with your with being in a calorie deficit Your body's Metabolism will adapt in that direction and become quite efficient and will stop burning as many calories They call it adaptive thermogenesis What we know is when you have a one high calorie day We do know that the body Boosts its calorie burn to compensate So if you're if you're consistently eating 1500 calories and that's a deficit and then you throw in a 2000 calorie day your metabolic rate will boost along with other hormones that boost Metabolic rate like like like leptin leptin will depress. Yeah with low calories all the time You have a high calorie day leptin starts to boot It'll boost up and you'll get a little bit of a calorie boost now that calorie burn boost is only about 10 to 20 percent Of your normal calorie, you know caloric burn However, if you implement this on a regular basis and you don't make it like a cheat day because I'm not talking about a cheat day I'm talking about strategically eating, you know, let's say your average is 1500 calories Well, if today I have 1100 calories then tomorrow have 1900 calories you average at those two days It's 1500 calories right ones, you know 1100 ones 1900 But what that does is it prevents my body or at least it reduces my body's adaptation process to slowing its metabolism down and so it helps you avoid some of the pitfalls of of Normal quote-unquote dieting. Well, let's talk about why that used to be really challenging too because even as a trainer I used to not do that because I was scared to death to let my calories drop that low Like especially being a guy who wants to build and your goal is to put on mass and size And I had done my test for my BMR and my BMR says, okay I should be consuming about 3,000 calories for maintenance and if I want to grow I need to be like 35 Okay, so then I would have these days where oh my god I'm so behind on calories and I was so focused on getting enough calories and Not being lower than that because my body was gonna start to metabolize muscle and I'd freak out when really the I When I would put back I'd make bad choices, you know, I'd eat whatever just to make sure I had my mentality and my attitude was It's better for me to eat something To eat something bad and in a surplus than to not eat anything at all because I'm gonna lose muscle So and and the flip is true for somebody who is trying to lose body fat, right? They have that same the same fear. They're afraid of the high calorie. Yes They're so afraid of the high calorie day because it's also gonna make them fat And so then they're like always really low or pushing levels low So they both the they're both inversely related and they both Is a relationship with food that you need to work on and evolve like and it takes time I know it takes lots of time because I've gone through this journey And I'm still working on getting better about intuitive eating and intuitive trading And then that is the ultimate goal of of health fitness in your journey is to be able to be in a place That you want to be and be able to do it without stress or without total focus. It's just very natural for you Practice and before we even get to that point There are some actual benefits to simply varying your calorie intake whether you want to gain or you want to lose When you eat a larger calorie, you know Day or whatever if I boost my calories for the day my metabolism speeds up I get an anabolic effect. So you see protein synthesis increase muscles want to build Hormones start to react to this when I have a low calorie day Fat fat burning goes up Insulin sensitivity goes up now if I stay high calorie for a long time My body that anabolic effect starts to dampen and it starts to store body fat If I stay low calorie for too long that fat burning effect starts to dampen as my metabolism starts to slow down And so what you're trying to do is you're trying to circumvent those issues Whether you're erupting that whole process, right? Whether you're bulking or whether you're cutting to have these calorie fluctuations Throughout the week where some days are higher and some days are lower really tough because I mean even I Notice to any in myself if I'm really trying to kind of cut down like how hard it is for me to then go back and eat more calories And introduce that to do that very same thing you're talking about. I got to interrupt that process I'm too much focused on you know being in this calorie deficit where now my body is like this is the new standard Like this is what my body is trying to make so efficient So that way, you know, I can move and I can produce what I normally do per day But now, you know, I've hit a wall and there is definitely a psychological component Absolutely to undulating calories. There's a there's a major one major. I think and this is where I blame the fitness industry because We and I we put so much pressure on people with the the gaining and the losing Of muscle or body fat that we we put out studies We put out information out there to promote fat burners to promote supplements to promote things to make people think that If you don't do this, this could happen if you do this This is going to help you and so people really get scared into this this way this pattern of eating regardless of it's to lose body fat or to build muscle that is really The the gray science like it's not Yeah, if I lived in a ridiculous deficit for a long stinted period of time and I continued to push the body My body could start to metabolize muscle like there there is that absolute possibility there But the possibility of that happening because you had one day where you're a hundred percent fasted or you had two or three Days in a row where it doesn't happen. No, it didn't happen And the same thing goes like I said with some the the other scare of putting on fat Like if you've been living in this like 1300 calorie and this is how I actually do this with clients So once we find maintenance, we've figured that out and then I'll do something And I'm just about to do this right now with uh sam so a little shout out to her And we just were discussing this yesterday. I said, okay Now we get to the fun part of coaching and I've had her we haven't done this yet and I've now I've had her for three months So to me You have to establish a very good relationship and understanding of food and how it affects you before I start playing with this And manipulating with this So now that she has a very good understanding of how sugar affects her body where she needs to be at Fat where she needs to be a protein. What's a high day for her? What's a low day? Where does she feel satisfied like we've connected all these dots now? I'm like, okay now Let's start playing with a little bit of science here. Let's have some fun Let's let's push your body a little bit and let's see how it responds So I'll tell her okay. I want you to go three days in a row and I'm going to keep you around 1300 to 1500 calories I want you to stay in that range somewhere and I want you to give me feedback as we're going through I want to know do you feel fine? Do you feel hungry? Do you are you getting lightheaded? Do you do you feel good? Do you feel strong? Like so we're we're doing that and then After she does it then I'll give her what what the the bodybuilding industry refers to as like a refeed But really all I'm doing is I'm averaging her calories back out of where her body needs and where it should be And I'll say okay Now I want you to have 20 2600 calories, you know, let's have 2600 calories this day We just came off of having three four days of a deficit like that and now Respond and then I explained to her what she's going to see now We we increased your calories to 2600 for that one day. So of course You're going to see your you have an increase of carbs, which is going to pair with more water You're probably going to drink more water because your sodium is going to be up more sodium more water again So you're going to see the scale probably go up one and a half pounds I don't care. Don't worry about it The benefits that we're going to get from the spiked leptin in the metabolism response You're going to get is going to counter that over the next three to four days And you'll see that if you just be patient in fact anecdotally speaking I see that it becomes very clear when people undulate their calories like that You see their weight go up a little bit like adam was saying With water and then you see it all of a sudden fat loss start to happen Like they maybe went up one one and a half two pounds and then five days later. They're down three or four And you get this boost. In fact, you'll notice it with yourself You'll notice your appetite will go up after having one of those higher calorie days Yeah, when I got a lot I got really into this when I started to research the Where was the science of these refeeds? Like the bodybuilding industry has been doing we talk about how they took some science The only way and that's what they did they did the whole cheat day and that's how my my mind works Is okay, so when I was going through the whole competing process and this is kind of the the norm is these These carb cycles and low calorie diets and then you have what are called refeeds that these coaches were telling them I'm like, okay Well, let's get let's break down the science of what do these refeeds do because obviously There is some science behind it. There is a purpose behind it There is a way to do it Most these competitors and most these people that are doing don't really quite understand exactly what they're doing They just know that they've been cutting really hard and their coach told them to stay low And they've done a good job. So he rewards them with a cheat day That's the wrong fucking message. The right message is let's talk about leptin Let's talk about what you're doing with your metabolism by doing that And that's where I that's why I do talk about leptin because This is where I started to learn a lot about. Okay. This is what's really happening in the body is We are creating this thermogenic effect by doing that because leptin is the hormone That's responsible for telling your body that it has more energy to burn You give it fuel which you give it food So when your body gives it you give it any food leptin is going to naturally spike the more you give it the harder it spikes And that hormone is a signal telling the body. Hey, we have tons of energy to burn And then it shoots the metabolism up now the things that most people what happened to most people Is the metabolism gets fired up and then it also could promote hunger the the following day So this is where I coached to this. I tell people, okay, we just did that And this is the psychological benefit of doing it. Yeah, this is exactly so here we go We go into after I just fed you 2600 calories now. We're going into the next day Now this is where and this is this to me is where uh, this is where we make our money This is where I really can help somebody is to connect these dots like okay. We just had that great feed day Uh, right now you're you're I'm already ahead of it But so I let them know before it happens, right? You're going to go up a little bit on the scale You're going to feel this you're going to notice that right these are the signs you're going to pick up These are all fine You're also Going to have a hard time controlling your appetite the next day because guess what happened you shot the leptin up Your metabolism is on fire. You're telling you it has more fuel more energy Well, you've utilized that those calories I gave you and now it's like it's pumping again That's the that's the idea of the refeed is that you shoot that metabolism back up You get because you've been in a deficit for so long. You've started to suppress that leptin now I'm going to ramp it back up. It shoots it back up But then I also need to be disciplined and in control because the appetite goes up So is my hunger and as long as I can go back and stay in control and go back to where homeostasis or where my My balance of calories have been kind of keeping myself take her back down That's why it's all a step process. You really have to determine whether or not, you know, psychologically They're ready to make good decisions You know as far as like getting whole natural foods going through that process showing you, you know That it can be a frequent habit that they've established and absolutely, you know that way Then now they're going into the next step So the next step is to kind of play with these these ideas and these calorie ranges and undulate this And uh, yeah, then it becomes it becomes a lot harder psychologically. That's that's a third level Yeah, it's it's it's no different than when you're learning how to do a squat or any other exercise You start with a very tightening the screw you regress everything back. So if you've never barbell squatted before I may have you start off with You know sitting down on a bench and standing back up with no weight And then I may have you do a single leg step ups on on some kind of elevation Then I might have you do a squat with a broomstick then I may move you to a barbell Yeah, and then wait and then they're all levels, right? What you want to understand is constantly tracking your food is not where you want to end up It's a step towards the right direction excellent excellent way to say that but you don't want to that's not where you want to Stay you don't want to end up there. So, you know like adam was saying, you know step one start tracking pay attention step two Okay, eat these calories. Here's your macro targets step three Let's undulate those because you're you're you're progressing them towards Real life because in real life you don't eat the same calories same grams of proteins fats and carbohydrate every single day You can't do that forever and you don't want to and you don't want to you want to wants to live their life Like and besides that we didn't evolve that way. Yeah, our bodies did not evolve. It wasn't like that. We were out hunting You're like, oh, shit. There's 30 grams of protein kill it. Yeah, no, it was I'm gonna eat this now We ate so ours in a refrigerator that hasn't been invented yet, right? We we evolved with a diet that was so different Uh from day to day week to week and definitely from season to season that our bodies eventually You know evolved to thrive on this kind of a diet This is why fasting is so good for for people because we evolved through long periods of time without food and I you know, I was just listening to A scientist speak about this to the day. I was listening to Dr. Rhonda patrick's podcast. I want to give her a shout out by the way great podcast If you like lots of information That's a great one very very science. We will have her on here eventually. We've been in communication I want to get her on the show. She's a she's a knowledge bomb. She's awesome. She's awesome awesome person But anyhow What he was saying is is that rather than considering fasting a stress on the body and your body adapting to that Which is something we've said millions of times. He said just consider it like a different operating program When you're operating with food your body works off of one program when you operate without food your body Works off of a different program and but your body needs to have both of those Well, your body our bodies did not evolve. I mean, you know taking fasting out of the equation our bodies did not evolve Eating consistently the same shit every single day Even if your food is is if you have lots of variety in your food eating the same calories and macronutrients Is even too consistent You're better off having variety and even your macros and your calories And doing this in a structured way as a step towards getting to real life Into it. I also want to that static is adam's face by the way. Oh, you can hear that. Yeah, sorry You're rubbing your rubbing your face. What's going on? I was little as I was listening to Sal. I really was getting Well, I just want to whirl in his hair. I just Sorry Smart you throw something at me. I think you know what normally Doug gives me a look I was like trying to be like, hey, man Normally what I'm making an annoying sound Doug gives me like this look like motherfucker stop it Stop chewing on ice or something. I was in his cell talking you're making some sense. So I okay, so Samantha who I'm talking about right now. I hope she doesn't mind. I'm putting her business out there a little bit She is somebody who is very smart Been around fitness for life of her family members are all into it She is like so you're and then on top of that She's hired me to coach her and I took her for three months before we started messing with this stuff So I just want to I just want to reiterate that because I know when we say things like this Then I also know because I've had tons and tons of clients that you you give this information to them Then it's like giving them the the uh All sudden this latitude to eat whatever they want and who gives a shit because I heard on mind pump that We should be undulating and we should have high days and we should have low days And then they have this inconsistency inconsistency of Of eating right or eating well for their body because we all sudden give them we give them all this latitude Well, you first need to put in the work before you get this is definitely to me Uh, this is when you're getting really close to intuitive eating You've been able to naturally undulate your calories that you don't have to track whatsoever But before you get to that point you have to have tracked in my opinion for a while You have to have made those connections with different macro nutrients and how they affect your body You need to you should be able to know a rough idea of where you where you need to be at Chlorically to maintain your weight or to gain or to lose like you need to you need to have an idea Of what a consistent month looks like of activity, you know, where you know, your patterns that where Do you have days where like, you know, I and I like to use the analogy of sunday football for me because it is such an extreme different Uh on a tuesday a tuesday, I'll step 20 000 steps. I'll burn over 5000 calories on sunday I had a sunday just recently where I literally stepped under 2000 steps and burned under 3000 I mean, that's a 2000 calorie Swing now I don't need to change my food necessarily right on that day, but I need to be aware that my my my intake or my My maintenance brought in. Yeah, that that needs to be factored in there That needs I need to have that understanding that, you know, and for me, I've learned to just It's easier to schedule a different way of eating on the days that I have less activity So those are the days I tend to fast or meal skip or go long periods of time without consuming because shit I ain't moving but I I think that has also been something that has taken a lot of discipline because When i'm sitting watching football is when I want pizza or I want beer I want, you know, and then there's a psychological part. I'm not really truly hungry. My body doesn't really need fuel I'm not pushing it in. Well, it's interesting I was thinking like about two different types of people like one that Really good about forward thinking and planning and, you know, doing all these types of things versus somebody that sort of Is a little bit more like after the fact like, oh, okay And then I'm going to kind of be a little more flexible and relaxed about this or that like so I think that too like You could get into a trap if you're the type of person that really like plans everything out and wants to know everything way ahead of time and then You know, it just gets fixated on this fact that like well on this day I'm doing this so then I'm like so strict and Stringing about what I'm doing leading up to that day versus You know allowing, you know, whatever part of life or to kind of come through and then you can just adjust and make these Like slight adjustments not like over compensations, but slight adjustments. Yeah, this this is the this is where the whole concept of Many bulking and many cuts, you know came about this is where we've did, you know old episodes Where we talked about so this is actually how this came up with Samantha. She she's obviously a big listener She brought that up. She goes hey, I wanted to ask you about how you utilize the many cuts and the many bulks that you guys always talk about And I said, you know what? This is perfect. You know, we're at a point now I said because I hadn't seen her in a while. I just had brought her back in to kind of see where she's at And she's done phenomenal. She looks phenomenal Uh, at least as long as I've known her. She's the best shape I've ever seen her And uh, is very very in tune with what's going on with her body nutritionally and Mechanically when she works out so like now we're into the fun shit like now it's time to it takes a while to get there But it's awesome when you do get there But yeah, people need to realize that uh, when you eat low calories your body Slows down and when you eat high calories your metabolism speeds up, but that uh, effect is not super long lasting And so that's why we did the mini bulk and mini cuts if you are bulking constantly and any look any guy listening knows You bump up your calories initially you build more muscle you get stronger You stay on that for long enough and before you know it, you're not really gaining muscle and we're just getting fatter And the same thing happens with weight loss and by fluctuating your calories You can avoid a lot of those pitfalls. It makes a tremendous difference But like we're saying it is a step towards Intuitive eating one of the things I like to do with people and it takes obviously like Adam's saying it takes a While to get here, but when they have that high calorie day, I like to follow a very high calorie day Immediately with the fast Where they don't eat their first meal to like which I want to tell you this is very hard to do It's very hard to do because you just shot that leptin up and this is why I warn people going into the next day This is and a lot of times this is really this is common, right? So, but you know why I'm doing it, right? No, of course It's 100% I'm looking for the psychological benefit and the psychological benefit of well, you get two huge benefits from that You get the psychological one. You get the fat burning. I mean, you know Because your leptin is yeah, you just spiked your leptin your body is That metabolism is fired and roll and then you deprive it of calories. Shit. You are shredding fat That is a great strategy for Leaning out fast, but it is also a very advanced technique of doing that and learning to listen to those signals So yeah, I think that's a awesome Awesome level to get at it. I like the psychological benefit. I like the psychological benefit because It helps portion can teach you control. Well, it just it just helps them Be okay with feeling hungry And of course the people it's that you're gonna die watch it. I'll pass right and by the way I'm talking about most, you know, if I'm working with someone who's gotten normal, you know food relationship issues I'm not talking about extreme food or relationship issues like if I'm dealing with someone who's You know who's had anorexia or bulimia. I'm gonna treat them a little bit different I'm glad you brought that out. I want to say that because someone who's anorexic Has no problem avoiding hunger. In fact, they've ignored it so much that they probably don't even feel anymore And they might even feel repulsed by food Even though that their body is sending them all these signals to eat more food I'm talking about the average person who's got their normal, you know Relationships of food when they had a high calorie day and I followed up with the fast It teaches them to be okay with a little bit of hunger And also to embrace the kind of energy they get from the day after when they fast because what you'll find is When you have those higher calorie days the day after if you fast you'll have this really good Energy throughout the day drink lots of water You'll find that you've got this kind of this wired type of energy almost like you drink a little extra coffee Except it's not very you're not nervous. It's more this calm type of energy And then the following day I'll bump the calories back up But these techniques Contribute quite a bit to the fat burning process, but also to the muscle building process You know one of the ways your body goes to burn more calories is it sends a signal to build more muscle So, you know if I'm dieting and my calories are low on a consistent basis and I'm not undulating them I'm always at 1500 calories a day It's my body's not going to want to really build any muscle or even it might even try to adapt in the direction of You know reducing muscle mass to slow my metabolism down. That's one of the one of the ways it'll do that But if I throw in some higher calorie days My body's probably going to be more likely to hold on to muscle as part of its, you know, uh, you know As part of trying to keep the metabolism fast So it's a very effective technique when I see people eating so consistently with the same calories and same macros every single day You know, um They just don't understand they don't realize that what they're doing is they're trying to get their metabolism to slow down They're sending a consistent signal to their body To reduce its its calorie burn to lower its hormones in response to it to reduce the signal to build muscle And to you know, hold on to fat easier because now it's burning less calories Well, you you made a comparison to squatting and I feel like this is um, like program designing right and there's Totally like like we don't our maps programs are not the same thing all the time Yeah, like nothing should be that way and and we encourage people to um to modify it and we've built mods for some of them And we talk about there's places to interject and intermittently Introduce going to failure and and training at a higher intensities, but The idea is that we lay in this solid foundation That's what we knew too like that and that's what I knew when I first when south first sent over the very first maps before We ever even started in mind pump I just knew this was the message that people needed like every program I'd ever seen before is like it was preaching the opposite Uh message and it's not that you know maps is the end all be all it's that the the way it's designed Is what's going to benefit literally a majority of people that are out there because the message that's being sent out There is the opposite of what they should be doing right now because there's so much work They need to do to lay a solid foundation before they even get to that stuff And I always just tell people when they start doing all these weird creative exercises and beast mode training Also, it's like dude You're you're like a guy who's learning to play basketball and you just got on the basketball court And you're out there like practicing 360 moves and between the legs. Oh crazy It's like you can barely dribble you can barely dribble the ball, dude You can barely dribble the ball and you're wanting to learn like this crossover You know crazy move that you saw Steph and curry do on tv and you're trying to make these behind the back passes It's like bro stick get the fundamentals down. I'm not saying that that's not awesome There's not a way to shots. Yeah, learn learn the fundamentals of nutrition learn the fundamentals Of training and then you start to implement it But there's definitely levels and steps to this and I feel like the undulating the calories and food Is is a crucial step It is a point that you want to you ultimately want to get to it is one more step closer to intuitive eating But do not neglect the foundation do not neglect was actually my favorite sports analogy yet What the one he just gave yeah, and you know spoken from somebody who plays and as you get better at this Under your undulations can be more extreme. I mean when I first start people off like this I'll have them undulate, you know 300 calories or 400 calories Each day as you get better man, you could go pretty wild. I mean I I personally this is how I eat Okay, I eat this way. It's very intuitive off. Let them titties out. Yeah, I That was random wild left turn. Oh, I see Uh, I this is kind of how I eat um, and it's very intuitive obviously I don't track but I can guarantee you there's there's days where I have probably and I'm You know, I'm a hundred and almost 190 pounds and my metabolism pretty pretty fast There's days where I have no problem 1200 calories. That's it There's definite days where I just have 1200 calories and then there's days where I have 4000 calories or 3500 calories So I I I definitely give myself big swings because I notice Uh dramatic benefits with those big swings I know when I have the big calorie day that I'm going to see boosts In strength and I'm going to see boosts or I'm going to feel boosts in anabolic hormones When I have those real low calorie days, I'm going to see boosts in cognitive function I'm going to see boosts in uh certain types of energy I'm going to uh be okay with uh not eating certain foods and and and that's another thing too These low calorie days that you have are really good at breaking those chains That you may have towards, uh, your you know your weaknesses like sugar or chocolate or You know, whatever you know food it is that that happens to be for you Throwing in a real low calorie day is almost like a reset point. It kind of resets you To get you back on track, uh with your nutrition And lastly, uh hormones. Let's talk about hormones for a second. People don't realize that when you diet Um or when you are in a bulk Your home hormones start to adjust and you notice uh testosterone growth hormone and insulin Start to change according to that that too consistent of a diet and and undulating or changing it We'll switch those around and keep them more towards uh youthful levels For example, if your calories are low all the time, you'll see depressions at testosterone. You'll see Uh women's estrogen levels start to come, you know, uh to be out of whack throwing in those high calorie days We'll help mitigate that and reduce that effect and the same thing when I go high calorie When I start to bump up if I'm gonna have a high calorie day and I'm gonna have more carbohydrates, for example I'm going to be very sensitive. My insulin is going to be very sensitive to carbohydrates I'm going to take those carbohydrates. I'm going to shuttle them into muscle I'm going to get lots of benefit from them and my insulin doesn't need to explode Through the stratosphere in order to compensate for the for those extra carbohydrates But if I'm always eating high calories, you start to see insulin sensitivity start to creep up Um and which can become a problem, you know later on uh with you know with uh eating those excess carbohydrates So uh underlating calories is a step you should take towards intuitive eating And if you're somebody that's been tracking for a long time, um, I recommend you give it a shot right now Take your total calories for the week Uh get that number go ahead and hit that number and give yourself some high calorie days You should have at least one or two high calorie days during the week One or two real low calorie days During the week and then uh the rest of the week should be somewhere in the middle And your macros your macro percentages should change a little bit as well So it's not just about eating the same macro percentage and bumping everything up Even throw in some Some days where maybe your protein intake is as half of what I want I want to challenge the people that you're challenging to do this to Don't not track it though. Don't not um No, no unless you're at the point where you can eat intuitively still track it You still gotta count everything because you are bringing up some great points about, you know, because you're gonna Obviously if you're gonna increase your calories, you're gonna naturally Change your your macro profile to a point, right? I mean, I guess you could You know keep the percentages the same but you're going to have more carbs or more fat You know or more protein in order to get to that higher calories bottom line So I want you to track so you can pay attention to how you feel because it might this you might learn some new Things about wow when I eat this much protein, this is how I feel You know that that's a little beyond where I want to be or that when I eat more fat Wow, I didn't realize I I sleep like this or oh when I had this much carbs I noticed that I wanted even more carbs than that or I noticed that I had a huge crash later on like You know Still even though you're using this surplus and even though you're undulating and you're doing all these for the benefits of The hormones like we're talking about and the whole refeed concept with leptin Also still tracks so you can pay attention to the signals that your body gives you when you Consume at a higher level of those numbers and you know and then start to manipulate and play though So maybe yeah, I'm glad you guys brought this up as a step too because I was just thinking about a question Somebody had a while back. I think it might have been Cassidy where she's like Super into tracking and super dialed. Yeah, but doesn't know where to go from there. Yeah, you know like this would be one of those Absolutely This is a step to take this is one 100 a step and it's a long process You go from tracking to undulating tracking to One or two days a week and not tracking to four days a week and not tracking to not tracking at all And then many times you have to go back to tracking Because you find yourself. Oh, I go way off You have to go back and forth because it's it's a tough process, but it's funny too because You know Adam, you've competed several times One of the most anabolic environments you can ever be in and correct me if I'm wrong as post contest It's there's nothing that compares to it. No amount of testosterone I've ever taken in my life compares to the anabolic feeling I've had from being deprived nutritionally for so long and then the the feeling of Feet refeeding the body and then watching your muscles grow and your metabolism go through the roof Into the whole now now you can do see that's the thing like anybody who's competed probably knows what that's Yeah, they know exactly what you're talking about and you can you you can take advantage of that not not on that dramatic level But you can take advantage of that absolutely with in doses with undulating your calories There's also some science that that shows that protein your your body can actually become Desensitized to protein if I'm constantly eating and if I'm a 200 pound man And I'm eating a 200 grams of protein which is high protein every single day My body becomes less efficient at utilizing that protein for the purposes that protein You know are most needed for which is repair and rebuild of muscle tissue another tissue in the in the body If I have a day where I eat 100 cal 100 grams of protein And I make up for it with fats and carbs and then I throw in that 200 gram of protein day again There's evidence to show that my my sensitivity to protein or my the protein synthesis boost I get from high protein goes up and the same thing goes for carbohydrates You know when we when you talk to endurance athletes Who carb load before they carb load many times they cut their carbs They cut their carbs that they become more sensitive to carbohydrates than when they carb load They get more glycogen storage. It becomes more effective. Well, it's like a sponge theory, right? It's very yes It's like it almost it's kind of obvious when you really think about it Like the way the body is going to absorb these nutrients And if we were constantly flooding it with more than we need and you're so fixated on I got to get my protein And taken I'm getting 200 plus grams of protein every single day and you've been doing that for weeks on end straight Like you're just you're just you got a sponge and you're just fucking saturating So it might be maximally filled the whole time But it's overfilled and just all that other spillage is Is wasted energy that you could be utilizing for other things and or you could be doing it for other macronutrients And enjoying yourself and having different a better balance like it's also it's also such an effective tool to To observe your own body Like how do I feel now that I've always eaten 200 grams of protein a day? How am I going to feel when I 100 grams of protein or nothing or like I started when you when you were talking about This was something and I we talk about how You know, we're constantly pushing ourselves here and what I love about being on the show with you guys is that You know, I remember listening to you how you would interject your vegan days And part of why I always, you know, didn't like doing vegan because it was very challenging for me to get my protein intake Oh, that's it's that's my low protein. So I started doing the same thing where I was like I would intermittently put these, you know, and I don't go to us I guess I don't really go to the extent where I'm like trying so focused to be vegan as much as I'm like I'm not gonna care about protein I'm gonna eat a ton of vegetables this day and I'm just gonna Overload all that like because my body hasn't got enough of it What do you notice on that day and what do you need to notice the day after? No, I feel great I feel great. I you what I feel like is exactly what's happening is I'm giving my body The nutrients that I had been getting deprived of it because I'd lost I wasn't getting Getting enough greens and especially if you believe in like a, you know, the terry walls type of method and and eating I mean, you're talking like six to eight, you know, serving big plates. Yeah vegetables a day Like I don't get anywhere near that on a regular basis. In fact, a really good day for me It's probably half of that so I try and have this day, you know and intermittently introduced these days were that I'm just Salads salads and veggies and like and I'm just and on my salads. I'm loading it with all these feels much like a murderer Yeah, right Like you're killing you're not killing animals, but you're the innocence of the world taking their food Yeah, which is not good either. That's it. You know, and When the next day when I'm killing really slow moving life forms reintroduce the protein My body feels great like did you notice like almost like a a muscle building boost? Yeah, you get this little It's it's that feeling you're talking it's on a much smaller level Like the feeling you're talking about that you get when you know after a show when you've been deprived It's that same feeling just on a very smaller scale. Yes, and and and to take it a step further How do you know how well you respond to carbohydrates proteins and fats if you've never really had days where you've avoided them Like you don't know it's funny because you know, I'll work with clients I'm working with was so obvious but so true. I'm working with someone right now young lady, you know, she's you know, she's petite and She her she's been tracking and I'm reading what she's what she's eating and she's eats high protein almost I mean every single day and I told us well, that's really a lot of protein Have you ever tried eating less and she's like, well, you know protein satiates me and that's why a lot of it I feel good when a lot of protein and my question to her was well before you were so afraid of eating fat That that was maybe the macronutrient that you ate How do you know if you book cut if you drop that And bup your fat intake you wouldn't feel, you know, even better and she's like, well, that's a good point Like you don't know until you start messing with these things to see and identify how your body responds Okay, so I and then you can see okay. This is what works really well for me Um, these are the the cycles that I can go through that make me feel great I'm telling you at the end of this, uh, you really start to learn your body But if you're so afraid of and proteins the match the magic macronutrient, right? Everybody's so afraid of of cutting that down like it's okay to have a day of low protein I promise you're going to be okay You're not going to lose tons of muscle But if any you'll learn a little bit about your body and see how you respond when you have that high protein day the following day This is something that I teach right so we're going to pull Carbohydrates back or we're going to totally eliminate sugar in the diet So this is common. I just want to give people a heads up But this is not a signal that it's not working or it's bad for you and you need all these carbs When you go if you go and you're let's say you're normal eating whatever it is Doesn't matter what this is your normal eating then all of a sudden you have trainer sal says Let's get rid of sugar out of your diet or let's get rid of carbohydrates And see how your body works and if that's the only the message you got from that And then you go to your normal eating and all you do is take that out And then what ends up happening is you get these headaches. You get tired You get dizzy and you're just like this ain't for me. I need my carbs Well, you need to adjust your fat in order to Change the body system and how it's going to be utilizing for searching for energy And this is very common when I take somebody and I put either you teach them carb cycling or I teach them, you know Eliminating carbs and doing a ketogenic doesn't matter But if I take carbs away from someone who's been eating carbs for a very long time They are very much so adapted as usually Utilizing glucose as their primary source of fuel and we want them to become more fat adaptive if I'm going to take that That carbohydrate away So I need to make sure that I prepare them mentally that okay If you decide you're going to take a macronutrient like a carbohydrate Which is used for fuel for us out of there You need to make sure you replenish it with one like fat and bump that up So you can now and you need to probably give it at least a couple days For you and I know they say it could take up to seven before we become fat adapted when you adapt to that But that first initial all of a sudden you pull all these carbs out You may feel like you're low energy and it's just because your body is switching systems It doesn't know what's going on yet How I look at fat like that like how much better I assimilate food by pairing it with fat, you know and making sure that You know, that's part of it. So if when I'm adjusting macronutrients or doing anything like that like I'm definitely Making sure the fat is there to help my body sort of process everything better No, you learn a lot about your body when you do that kind of stuff. I mean when I For years I barely I mean I eat vegetables But I need tons of them because they didn't build muscle right vegetables don't build any muscle But more recently over the past few years where I've incorporated these where I've started to undulate things and listen to my body I'll have days right mostly vegetables. Man. I feel fantastic. I wouldn't know that I wouldn't have made that connection had I not been open enough to it's why it's why vegan people get so crazy too though It's why they're so passionate. It's like the time that guy drank like a bunch of water and hadn't drunk water Yeah, you know, like wow, I feel so great energetic You know, it's funny if you give an if you give a regular person They eat the shitty american diet and you give them one of those juices You know, uh, not not fruit juice, but like vegetable juices like wow, I have so much energy Why did I get so much energy from drinking that? Yeah, so your body was just in need of those nutrients Just that same thing water too. Well, that's such a true story water and because I was somebody like that I totally did not get enough water for and then when I first like then I had to start tracking I was like Whoa, and that's mind-blowing. Yeah, my energy levels were better. My muscle bellies were filled up more I was like, oh my god, water is magical and salad makes me used to make fun of me on the show all the time Because if you like that's out, I'm like fucking water for every water water. Water is the answer But you did you consider water? Yeah, right. Did you but I do it's it's just another it's just another thing that I I have learned during my journey and I know there's got to be somebody else That's like that that dude if you've never tracked your water and you don't realize that you're dehydrated most of the time You'll be blown away You know what you just stay hydrated You just bring up a good point. I think I might have brought up this up in the past, but I wonder and this is speculation Okay, I'm going to preface this because I don't want you to go try this But I wonder if undulating water intake a little bit might have some benefit. Oh, absolutely. I do that must That's how I get ready. So so what we're I mean besides the aesthetic benefit. Well, no, you well Yeah, but there's so when this is another resource is you want to get right if you want to talk about something When I every time I got told to do something like so The guys who I would be asking a lot of I asked a lot of coaches around here I have buddies that are coaches for other IFBB pros and stuff and there's some of the most well-known guys and You know, they they teach a lot of these, you know, bro science philosophies, right? And you know, the water cutting is one of those now There's there's death once again. There's some science to this But it's not just as black as black and white as both sides make it look There's either the anti-side which like uh, lay norton who's like, oh, you know, that's stupid You why would you ever want to get rid of water water? 60% of your muscle bellies are filled with water and that's important when you're getting on stage and presenting them Then you have the other side that said you want to be dry as a bone and you want to pull all that out And you don't want any carbs water in your system. So there's these different cans Well, really there's a little bit of truth above So, you know, you you don't want all this subcutaneous water sitting in your system when you're getting up getting up on to present yourself on stage So you do want your body to kind of pull that out or dry that out But then you also still want water in your muscle belly. So where how do you do this? Well, so what I teach people is to push their water Up really high To a point not to where you're gonna drown yourself because it takes a little it would take a ton of water to do that But for a guy my size I would get as high as like three gallons of water in a day That's a lot of water It's a ton it's a ton more than anybody needs And all I'm training my body to do is to get adapted to that much water in its system And I'm pushing that through my system and after a while you're peeing every five seconds And then after that you're peeing every 10 minutes Then your body does start to get used to it And it's and it's and it's filtering it at a much faster rate than what it was before you ever did that Then when it's time for showtime I slowly start to pull that take deprive the body Of water but not to the point where I don't ever give it like still going on stage I'm gonna have a half a gallon to a gallon of water which is believe it or not More water than the average person eats or drinks in a day So the pulling and taking away when you get a deretic effect from that. Yes. Yeah, absolutely Now I'm I'm wondering if there's a health benefit to it because I would I would argue that there's gotta be I mean most I don't think I don't think there should be a wide Flexuation because I'm pretty sure humans always try to stay near water at some point But you've got it. You've got to imagine that Throughout evolution humans probably went through periods where there was a lot less water and where there was a lot more water And I'm wondering if the body Uh, if there's some beneficial effects of that I would like to see some science if there's any if you listen if you're listening interesting If you're listening and you hear and you know of anything Messages on instagram because I'd be interested to see something like that something. I've been thinking about lately But I don't recommend it don't undulate don't undulate your water We're talking about calories and macros. Most people aren't drinking enough water to begin with so yeah If you like mind pump leave us a five star ready review on itunes If we like your review and we pick it you'll get a free t-shirt also Check us out on instagram at mine pump radio. You can find me at mine pump sal Adam is at mine pump adam and justin is at mine pump. Justin. 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