 Thursday, the day, two days after election day here in the USA, and we're talking about global connections and we want to check in with Kartiki Mishra in Varanasi, India, and we're going to ask him about America as now seen from the point of view of India. So interesting. It's always interesting, Kartiki. Thank you for joining us. Okay, so let's talk about what's going on in India. You're a graduate student in business school, lest I knew. What are you doing now and how is school for you in the time of COVID? Yeah, well, I'm pursuing my MBA right now and as colleges are shut down, so it's all online media. It's all through online stuff, teaching going on that way, colleges are shut down. I don't think they will open, maybe in May or maybe in July. So when do you graduate? Well, 2021, one semester is still there. I'm in third semester, one semester is still left. Okay, what's your occupational plan? That's final. I still have time. What's your plan after that? Well, companies are coming to college for placement and I will sit for them if I get chance, if I get good back edge, I'm going to sit for them. How are you doing? Are you an A student? Kind of, yes. Oh. So I am. Well, I figure you're right up there. What's your specialty in business? What are you focusing on? Well, my specialization in MBA is finance, so I'm very keen about global politics as well as how things going around the world. You know, in the U.S., we don't travel much anymore. My admission degree gives us an idea of what's happening. In the U.S., we don't travel much anymore and I wonder if you see your special occupation as requiring travel and whether, you know, these days, given COVID and the fact that we do not yet have a vaccine and, you know, it's spiking everywhere in the world. I wonder how you see travel, I mean, as part of your future. Well, I think COVID situation will end in 2015 after the traveling can resume. I think things will normalize if we stay optimistic about this. Well, flights are taking place in India. Trains are open for public now. Traveling is going on rapidly around parts of India. Well, I believe things will normalize by 2021. Okay. I might hold you to that now. Maybe we should make a small wager on the side. Okay. So let's talk about school. So you go into school by way of remote. What program are you using again? Google Meet for Education. Google Meet we use frequently. So all the classes are online? Yeah, definitely, because there is no chance of going to college, so all the classes are online. So how is COVID doing in, you know, in PheraNasi? How is it doing in India? My recollection is it got a relatively slow start, but then it really spiked up. Yeah. How is it right now? So people are certainly now unlocking things as we are opening theaters, we are opening restaurants. We are on the move towards opening things up to face this challenge because we can't always sit like this in a lockdown. It's just not possible. So people are taking steps, government is taking steps, but the only thing which I am concerned about that is, I think, on my personal advice, people should not do that to everyone, not just in India, but in the United States as well. Well, one of the issues in the United States and other countries is whether the government should make an enforceable rule about masks. In the case of the Trump administration, they've been very confusing mixed messages about masks. What about India? Is there a national requirement that you wear masks outside? Is there a law which provides that if you don't wear a mask, you have some sort of sanction, some sort of punishment or fine? How is that working? Does the government do anything about it or is it up to the individual? Well, it's one thing I would like to say, government has provided us guidelines that masks social distancing and sanitizing on regular basis. Is the advice from the side of government? And we must have to follow that and it's mandatory. I believe police takes some time actions against people who don't wear masks, but it is now mandatory. It's for everyone that everyone should wear a mask. It's necessary for their own protection, but people are becoming careless what to do about it. Well, I take my precautions always when I go out, I wear a mask. I carry a sanitizer when it's now, that's how he or she takes it off. So what about testing and tracing? You know, we have, you know, we've been trying to develop fast tests. We can tell in a few minutes whether somebody tests positive. And we've been, you know, trying to set up systems and given communities to track and trace the cases so we can, we can, you know, deal with, you know, containing the spread. Are you testing and are you doing tracking, tracing through the community? Definitely. We are, we are doing the test in large quantities on people that I think most of the times where tests are in millions or in my own state where I file the total number of tests, I believe are around 120 million done. So you can imagine that government is taking actions and tests are being doing done rapidly, rapid test kids are there in India, which we got from Korea and another country's as well. But tests are going on government is trying to do as much as possible. So, so Korea has been very successful in this. And yes, they've been successful in testing and tracking and tracing and so forth. Are you as, are you as successful? Well, cases are there, but I personally believe that more can be done. It's, it's every time a stage higher. So I believe there is always room for improvement and government can improve. Well, this is every indication of testing. Yeah, there's every indication of spreading and spreading and spreading until there's a vaccine and it's hard to say when it ends. I mean, I would talk to a lot of people, a lot of epidemiologists, doctors, and, you know, they're pretty much convinced that it's not going to happen for a year. And, you know, even if you have a vaccine, you have to distribute it. In the case of India, you have over a billion people you have to distribute it to. That's that's a real job. That's very complex, very expensive, time consuming. So how do people feel about the possibility of a vaccine? Are they optimistic? Are you optimistic? Well, in India, the in India is a serum institute of India, which is developing a vaccine. It's the I think top leader in developing vaccine India right now. And this serum of India has active in the UK as well on vaccine. And we are on on stage of developing. We are we are trying our best to develop a vaccine. We don't know the exact date when it will be in for people, but we are developing a vaccine on a rapid level. I think we are trying our best. Now, when you say that, you mean we is India. You're developing the vaccine in India with the medical research in India. Good. So you touched on this a minute ago, but I'm very interested in how the economy is doing. I imagine you're spending more time at home. You're not out and about. But I also imagine that people in general are spending more time at home and now everybody is working and there must be certain unemployment. And there must be some businesses that have shut down. Am I right about that? How's the economy in Varanasi doing? How's the economy in India doing? In general, when I say economy, the organized sector and our unorganized sector, these two are primarily the two main parts of economy. So the organized sector is facing crisis because of low production, low sales. So they are they are in loss. That's very genuine that we have seen here. But the the most tragic part is that this unorganized sector in India, which is not in records, which is not in, I should say, in formal sector or the formal track of records and paperwork. This sector is drastically hit. Many people are affected in this. Many people have lost jobs because the workers who who are migrant workers, like, for example, if someone is from Varanasi and working in Delhi as a migrant worker, we don't have record of that person, whether that person got back to his job after opening the lockdown or not. So unorganized sector is drastically hit. Well, records can be high, but I think it's very difficult to figure out what what rate of unemployment we are having right now. Yeah. OK, well, I hope you're able to contain it because you have a huge country there and you have a country where there are some great medical talent, but it's not. Medical facilities are not in every corner of the country. So in some places, if you get sick with covid, am I right? If you get sick with covid, there's no way for you to go. There's no hospital, no emergency room that you can go to. And sometimes there's pretty much nothing you can do when you get it back. In some places, yeah, in some places things can get ugly and nasty as you're saying, but well, our recovery rate is high. Gladly, because we are having a recovery rate of 91 percent right now in India. Like there is a chance of 91 percent that if a person gets go maybe or she might recover. So this is one hopeful thing that our recovery rate is higher than our, I should say, the increase in crisis rates of covid or corona cases. So this is one good news for India that our recovery rate is quite high. 91 percent of these nine people are one percent or one point five percent. Ah, OK. Yes, exactly. So let's move on to Mr. Modi, Prime Minister. You know, last time I looked, he was very popular. Last time I looked, he was good for business and he was doing good things. How do people feel about him now? What is his popularity these days? Well, when government implemented that lockdown, a 21 day lockdown government implemented on March, on March 23rd and lockdown kept extending for four times. So it continued well over for two months and when after that lockdown opened, people faced easier issues. So that lockdown step hit the economy hard. So well, it's not just India, it's all around the world. Even UK is going for a second term lockdown. France is going for a second term lockdown. The lockdown was pretty harsh on people, on people who are having jobs in or in areas as well. So that was one drastic measure. Yes, I'm curious that affected. Go ahead. Yeah. Yeah, that that measure of lockdown and how government dealt with this corona was one thing that it could have been better if if government would have taken measure since we have improved. Well, I believe that there is always room for improvement in such cases. And I believe so that government might have worked better. Well, they did their best, but it could have been better. You know, a few months ago, we talked to a I guess she's a she's a political scientist in Mumbai. And we talked about the Galwan Valley and the border dispute between India and China, way up there in the Himalayas. And I wonder, you know, how much people care about that? I wonder how Indian people generally feel about China these days. For one thing, you know, maybe arguably they blame China for covid. Maybe they feel that China is being too aggressive on border issues like the Galwan Valley. What's the status of that dispute and how do people feel about it? Well, China is one big problem in Asia. And I'm not shy of you to say that because China is a threat and West and Asia must acknowledge that China is an aggressive power and it has affected many nations. So what's the status? Not just every nation, every nation, which is border. It's been six months, was one major clash in June. And there are still troops standing eyeball to eyeball on border. We have been in seven rounds of talks, all ended up in failure. There is no, I think, solution in in future as well. We are still going in for talks because I think we don't need a war with China, at least, and China hopes also we don't go in a war with them because it will be a drastic thing. Nuclear powers countries, I believe, should not engage in conflicts. Amen. Like this, I believe not just for covid, not just for covid, but for India as well on border. Because well, one one thing I would like to add to this is that China and India, when I am talking about border, do not have a border perception. We have a different border perception. Like if they say they have border three points, we say that the border is at fourth point. So there is a difference in perception of border and this leads to clashes. And why it is that the Chinese government does not acknowledge the border on the Himalayan region. But they say that this agreement was done by the British government in past. And well, now it's Indian government and we don't acknowledge the border made by the British government in 1940. So this is one thing. And since 1950s till now, there is no clear or cremate on I should say lined border with China. So it's all on perception and understanding. And this leads to conflict most of the times. Most of the times. We move on to Trump. You know, last time we talked or maybe a time or two ago, I asked you how you felt and how people around you felt about Trump. And I recall that you told me that you you favored Trump because he was strong. Have you changed your mind in any way? Would you, you know, would you favor Trump today? I have been in competency regarding COVID situation. It's it's pretty evident that how we dealt with Corona. You didn't acknowledge that problem in the beginning at first. This was one major thing that no world leader should ever do. That there is a crisis like this stage and you can't simply say there is no Corona, there is no crisis. So this was one big problem which I saw in Trump. Now, coming to my part of support, I supported Trump on two things. That he spoke very harshly for radicalism. And what what's happening around the globe. So it was one cause of the second was as well as we know China, because China is a threat for India, threat for United States and West as well. So China is one thing that US must not undermine. It's very clear and Trump did not do that. So there are only two reasons which I support Trump for radicalism and China. You know, I read a piece today in preparation for a discussion in the Hindu, which is an online newspaper about India and it talked about the relationship between the US and China, rather, India. And it talked about the relationship between Modi and Trump. And what it concluded, and this is my question to you, what it concluded was that Trump is as far as Modi was concerned as far as the Indian government about India in general, unpredictable. And he had been unpredictable in foreign relations with India all through his relationship, even his trip to India. And the likelihood is that if he wins another term, he's going to be more unpredictable and that unpredictability is of some concern to India. Am I right about that? How do you feel about that? How do the people around you feel about that? Well, one thing I would like to add, Trump is a businessman. Trump is a businessman. It's a known fact. He sees profit and gains everywhere. So he sees gains with India. Well, if he gets some things from India, he will get some leads to us. But if he doesn't, he won't support us. That's what Trump is. We wanted a good trade with U.S. He removed us from the GSP or what favored India in terms of exports that we got, I think, around six billion till six billion export. We didn't have to pay taxes to United States. Well, Trump removed us from there, stating that we are a developed country. And trade deal was also there. He was pressuring us for a trade deal. So there are things where Indian government and Trump did not align and he wasn't predictable in that regards. Well, there are a few key areas in China. These were the only two areas which were Indian government and Trump agreed. My last question for you today, although, you know, you may want to talk about other things. We have a little time, but my most important question to you is this. I know that you're able to, you know, check up on U.S. news, both in online and print and of course on television. And you've probably been following as most of the world has been following the election. And I think what's interesting from the point of India is that India is a democracy. It's one of the world's greatest democracies. It's huge and it is faithful to the notion of democratic representative government to its credit forever. And here you are in India watching, probably in some detail, investing some time in watching the American campaign process unfold and watching, you know, all the things that happen around these campaigns and watching Trump and Joe Biden and watching the election process and all the strange things that have happened over the past few weeks anyway. And I know that your election process is not like that. Your election process is quicker. Your election process is more efficient and probably more faithful to the notion of a democratic government. That's my observation. But I wonder how you feel about all this trouble that is going on in the U.S. over this election, including violence in the streets and attempts to stop people from voting and suppression of voters, you know, in every place in the country. I mean, you must be aware of those things, Karnaki. And I wonder how you feel about them as a person in India, are concerned about democracy and concerned about voting, which is the core point of democracy. What do you think? Definitely, one thing, U.S. is a benchmark for democracy. I must say that every single other nation in this world looks up to United States as a democracy or a benchmark for democracy. Well, what's happening in United States is a bit for concern for every democracy around the world. It's giving them a very clear, I should say, a lesson how democracy should not work. So this is one big challenge. As we are talking, your president is still not decided who is going to be president. That's right. Trump is challenging that he might go to Supreme Court for counting. And that's one big issue that what less than United States gives to other nations as democracy is a very big concern. Well, if this thing doesn't turn out to be very great or it turns out to be ugly, well, it will give a very clear lesson to West and to the rest of the world that democracy has been hampered in United States. Well, I hope so. It doesn't put our situation. I believe that things get clearer. And I hope that more reasonable, more sensible person comes to power. And I believe Biden wins because days of Trump are over, I believe. And you will going to have an Indian origin vice president, Kamala Harris. So what's great than that? Thank you for that. Of course. So let me go to one last point and that is this. You know, the fact is, and you've seen it in the media, that almost half the country, maybe half the country, has supported Trump. And half the country has brought into his principles, which are racist, xenophobic, nationalistic, populism, and really a failure of democracy, both in the Congress and in the government itself. And, you know, and then you say to yourself, gee, this is not what we thought democracy was like, is half the country is opposed to the democracy that we thought the United States had. So, query, what about your observations and your reactions to the United States in general? There are people who think we are a declining power. There are people who think we can no longer exercise world leadership as we have. And therefore, we should not be treated in the same way as has been the case since World War II. As a global leader, perhaps we are losing our initiative as a global leader. Is this something that is discussed? Is this something that you think and people around you think about in India? Well, when since Trump came to power in 2016, he moved out from many agreements. He moved from Human Rights Council. He moved out from Paris Accord. He moved out from UNESCO where and he stopped the funding of WHO as well, because WHO was prepared. There are many steps taken by Trump which hampered the standing of United States. He moved out from Iran, which people or Americans worked for 25 years. And he moved out from that as well. We talked about it in the past. So, there are significant steps which Trump took and which hampered the image of United States globally and its position. And this is one reason which aided to the Chinese rise. And well, now China is in a direct conflict with the United States. So, in terms of military, yes. Go ahead. Well, there were things that Trump did good. He talked about terrorism. He talked about Chinese threat. I agree to that. But there were many significant things which I do not favor, because as a democracy, as a leader of the global liberal thinking, that was a wrong decision moving out of such I think high esteemed positions or places. So, that's my conclusion. So, that's my. Yeah. Suppose Joe Biden wins. It's not clear yet, but suppose Joe Biden wins. Well, I hope he does. And yes. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I feel the same way. And he calls you up. He calls you in Varanasi. And then he says, Carnegie, I need some advice. I would like your advice on my foreign policy with India. I'd like to know how I should treat India going forward. I want to have the best possible relationship with India. I would like India to have a better opinion of the United States and become as close as we can. What is your advice to Joe Biden when he asks you that question, Carnegie? Well, that would be a good thing when he calls me. Well, my advice personally would be that as a democracy, United States and India have converging views on many issues. There might be differences, but I sincerely believe United States and India can lead the way forward for the world. And what I believe United States and India should work on multiple areas, trade, human rights and every single thing that is possible on this planet for not only the growth of our people, but for benefit of the whole world. That's my opinion for Mr. Biden. And that's my advice to Biden. If he calls me that. Yes, I want to work with India in every single field. In highest order possible with all the priorities being given to both the country, whether India gives privilege to the United States and I expect the same. Thank you, Carnegie. That's a lovely statement of it. Biden does that. Okay. You know, you wrote me some things that you wanted to talk about and I forgot what they are. Is there anything on the list that you sent me that you would like to cover today? Well, one last point that one, I would like to make that. Well, I go Biden with first of all, I again, I say that because I think it's over for Trump. Well, now the last thing which everyone is facing what you saw in Charlie Hebdo and Samuel Patty, what happened in France. So that is one big concern I want to address. And this is one thing that Western needs to see that this radicalism should be stopped. This is one thing I would like to add. Last one. All right, Carnegie. I'm glad we got together again. I hope we can do this again soon. The world is changing faster. And you know, the broadband is better between Farnasi and Honolulu. So I'm happy to see that. And I look forward to our next discussion. Thank you so much. Thank you, Mishra.